For those of you that are in the conspiracy movement longer than I am – sorry, probably nothing new for you (perhaps you like then my article about Sitchin? 😉 ). For the rest that wants to get informed about the dark networks that are running this world and check blogs like the one of Vigilant Citizen: Beware! This guy is 100% a disinfo agent.
Is Chaukeedaar getting paranoid?
Ok, here is the story. I only occasionally run across the blog articles of VC the last couple of months and I’m only registered to new articles for some weeks now. I found them always interesting, somewhat very founded information there, just remember the famous article Sinister Sites – Astana, Khazakhstan for example. Thought he was just someone who worked in the Illuminati industry for some time and then decided to uncover the cabal. You probably thought about the same, right?
What I found strange was that logo for “The Global Information Network” on his site. It looked to me like one of these US-three-letter logos of these private cabal armies CIA, NSA, DHS, you name it. When today I saw that VC charges 10$ for his new e-book, I got suspicious (sorry, that’s just me) and decided to follow that GIN-add:
What I found was quite shocking to me: GIN tries to attract people who are interested in the Illuminati more of a subconscious feeling that they would like to be IN themselves, to feel that power to be special and inside a secret society:
One thing I will say though, is that Global Information Network markets on playing with people’s desires to feel “Special” and be included in some sort of ‘Secret Society’. Now, why people buy into stuff like that I don’t know, and how ‘Special’ is a secret society that makes you pay $150 a month and $1000 to join… well, I’ll leave that for you to decide.
Omar Briones [Source]
GIN tries to create an atmosphere of human equality and fair information participation:
There is a New World Order forming that is designed to increase the gap between the wealthy and the average working man. GIN does not agree with this movement of total control over individuals. GIN believes that EVERY person has the right to know the secrets of creating the life they want and enjoying freedom, pursuing happiness, and achieving all their dreams and desires.
But on the same page
Not all applications will be accepted and not everyone qualifies.
Kevin Trudeau, again…
I did not have to read a lot on that site to be remembered of Kevin Trudeau (I already reported about that Illuminati shill before) and right, GIN is actually another marketing and money machine of the master of cheating.
Back to topic: So there we have Vigilant Citizen advertising for GIN. Before, people have seen ads for a book about Aleister Crowley, the infamous Satanist and top freemason, on VC’s site. You also find dozens of people who report that VC has censored their comments when they were obviously not 100% in line with VCs opinion, or should I say, agenda.
So WHY does he play that game?
they are linking people to proven disinformation agents AND trying to make money off of their readers for referring them to the disinfo material…sorry, but real truthers and fighters of the new world order would not do this. It is a deceptive marketing technique by the agents. I will admit the website is loaded with lots of truths and good info….BUT – THAT is exactly how disinformation, or counter intelligence agents work. Trust me, they are not genuine. 90% of truth movement and illuminati exposing websites are in fact setup by agents – it was all manufactured because they knew people were starting to wake up. this has actually been an ongoing battle for many years now online. but i am sure you are at least somewhat aware of this by now.
UsualSuspekt [Source]
I guess VC is there to make us believe that the Illuminati are all-powerful and everywhere and program us to think we are already lost. Plus: To make some bucks from it, occult people love money and power foremost…
You know, I get so TIRED of my good faith getting abused regularly by these Illuminati manipulators! I would already be happy if my article only prevents ONE other person to feel that same frustration…
PS: I do not censor any comments. VC, if you are out there, you are free to respond. Or one of the team behind the name!
PS 2: For the case you ask yourself why chaukeedaar is on the web on october 28th, when the resistance is supposed to stop the system for one day: I crawl out of the globalist system step by step in my own pace. I don’t need a specific date for that, and I don’t want ALL the system to be stopped as I cannot take the responsibility of all the dead and suffering people from such an event… I want the top and globalist part of the system to end, not everything, as I’m not a communist nor an utopist.
Update 12/20/2011
As of today, this short article of mine got 699 comments in about two months. My post about VC’s sinister connection to the Illuminati scam site “GIN” has kicked off a discussion that uncovered other unethical/totalitarian habits of the VC crew (especially in regards of censoring posts that contained unwanted questions towards VC and banning a load of members without warning and reason). We had a full spectrum of COINTELPRO techniques spreading out on my blog, many weird imaginary “people” have come over from the VC forums and tried to hijack the discussion first towards religion, then to fake impersonation games, and also to pornography. But also many honest, bright thinking people stepped in, you may want to search for the comments of “femalopharo”, “Not Your Ordinary Citizen”, “Pluto”, “truthseer” and “io”. It really was a shitstorm, but it was worth it if I read comments like that one from femalepharo:
From the occult perspective, it has been said that Masonic images and other things appear purposely because through giving us these secrets they stick to their own codes and basically initiate us without our knowledge. If you are a read person of revelations, as I do not claim to be, one of the questions was “if you know the mark of the beast why would you receive it”? Obviously, it is through trickery and only the wise will refuse it.
THE SITE IS AN INITIATION! Remember the question of: “are we just seeing this more because we realize it, or are they doing it more now for publicity” .
HA! It is both! And the publicity is getting us accustomed to their rank and file in the order.
Namaste, Chaukee
chaukeedaar's blog 
These guys own and operate the vigilantcitizen.com
http://www.twistimage.com/en/who-we-are/our-leadership/mickael-kanfi
Mickael Kanfi
and
http://www.twistimage.com/en/who-we-are/our-leadership/mitch-joel
Mitch Joel
They also are responsible for this site, another recruitment site for the GIN.
http://elirook.com/ and
http://jointhenewworldorder.com/index2.php
http://www.youtube.com/elirook
Eli Rook can be found on facebook with thousands of followers too. He used to have a website that had a variety of youtube short vids on it that painted a picture, while selling a $47.00 Ebook which basically explained that the Illuminati/Elite are good people and had to keep things secret because the general populace wasn’t ready for them. Following along in the game, it was a big setup to get recruits for the GIN scam.
Incidentally GIN is a pyramid scam, and the only way you can actively recruit or have an affiliate number is to BE A MEMBER. VC is definitely a member. It’s a $1000.00 a month scam, and part of externalizing the hierarchy of the elite as well.
Joel is an online marketing genius who also owns Distort Entertainment and “produces” music for “underground” or “urban” band in Montreal and Toronto. Mickael lives in Laval where VigilantCitizen runs his operation out of. Henrik Ryosa of illomennation.com is also one of their accomplices who also knows a lot of digitial media and was once working with Joel on Distort Entertainment until realizing separate ideas would pull them in separate directions. Henrik now lives in Sweden and runs a production/media company of his own, but helps to steer people in certain directions with online contributions mainly to VC’s forum.
The two of Joel and Kanfi have enough insider information to concoct the stories on VC, and knowledge between them to get thousands of viewers a day, upwards to 40k. Look at the google ads on that site and realize they’re making major BANK. Enough to justify launching two more copy cat sites
http://knowledgefiles.com/
and
http://secretarcana.com
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Hello, up until recently I was very careful about this whole subject and I must say, I still am. First time I checked VC was last year when there was talk about Kanye and Jay Z being part of the Illuminati and I wanted to know more. However, that stuff was messing with my head too much and I decided to stay away. Just recently I got in contact with it again because I simply want to know more and if you start connecting the dots you realize it cant all be a coincidence. I am a very strong-minded individual and I like to ‘think for myself’. I dont take everything for face value and like to make my own conclusions.
I had been wondering about all the ads, it was weird. However, I found the articles to be informative and so I didnt make much of it. Dont really care if its fake, Im still gonna continue to read and make my own conclusions. However, what would interest me is your opinion on some of the stuff written on there. Also, last year I sent him a long-ass email and he never replied and that struck me as strange, as well, same now. I asked him about the Eye of Horus and the different meanings for different people, still waiting on an answer. Now of course I know why I wont get one, lol.
E.g. what do you think about his posts about The Wizard of Oz and the kind? Black Swan? Do you think those are made up or there is actually some truth about it.
As far as the music industry goes, I think there is a lot of crap going on. However, I still believe that not everybody is part of the Illuminati and there are some artists who actually decide to stay away.
So anyways, awaiting your reply.
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I take it back that I dont care. I do care, I will continue to read the articles, however, the fact that they claim to be a black guy but in fact are probably some white dudes and a few other things about the site are very disturbing for me.
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Yes i used to go to vigilant often and i dont know but something made me unsure about it all although i found the sinister sites articles very intresting and i do see all the symbolism in movies,music,tv and photo shoots yes well i also have sent vigilant emails and never any responses and ben from psuedo occult media always used to mssg me even since he stopped his blog posting he will mssg me if i contact him…well i saw vigilant accepts article submissions and i wrote a big article with lots of video links, photos to prove my points and i never heard a thing from vigilant about it, i also applied for a job as a forum mod when there was vacancies and still nothing and at that time i was well known an well respected as a commentor at vc and psuedo and on several fb pages…this was approx 1yr ago…i dont really go to vc now….im not sure how many times i need to see nikki garbage bag doing one eye shots in leopard print and read the same info about it all to no avail…
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No Noyt really. VC is run by one person. smh
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And I should know because I Logan Seibert polish his nards daily.
I once created a lot of controversy on the VC website because he is obviously occult and created an uprising that led to a board reset while recruiting many members to another site. Later I discovered I had too much love for Vigilant so much so that I could not stand what I had done, so I helped bring people back on the promise that I could moderate the board and help convert the Heathen Paganists back to the true way.
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JJ Virgil, where and how did you find this out? I do a radio show and I been exposing Kevin Trudeau and his GIN for the past week now. I am looking for solid evidence and/or proof that Vigilant IS indeed Mickael Kanfe. Do you have screenshots? I have been looking for proof and have not been able to find any to date. But, if this IS true, then this is BIG.
Thank you. Interesting post
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I’ve been reading VC since 2009 and until recently something didnt feel right, I have been looking for info about this and I’m glad I read your blog- at least I’m not alone. I can think for myself as well and I agree with Rick. If they were exposed this would be HUGE! thanx
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Hey Desiree,
cool, one more to confirm that we people CAN unmask the liers by ourselves!
Thanks for stopping by, Chaukee
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Interesting these Twist Image “marketing and graphic design” guys run VC and are based out of Canada. The director of the recently viral film “I, Pet Goat 2” (if you haven’t seen it watch it…full of Occult illuminati symbolism) was created by a graphic design firm also out of Montreal called Heliofant. I was emailing with the director, so they were responsive to inquiries about their creative process and meanings behind the film…which I did not expect them to be so open about assuming they were Illuminati agents.
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Just want to add to this blog that i have been censored tons of times posting on VC comments after articles. He/they are obviously trying to draw ppl into the occult and obviously make the “illuminati/nwo” seem more powerful than it really is from the feel of the content and articles, if indeed it is even a real organization and not just a big lying psyop in itself, suggesting these two things is what got the comments censored. Still a lot of truth on the site, just dont swallow it all and think for yourself.
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I was Conspiracy Fact on that site and got banned for talking exactly about what you are saying here. When he said he was a Mystic Christian was when I knew he was batting fro the wrong side, not only that he was interviewed by a Witches website. The true awakening is into the knowledeg of the salvation of the Lord Jesus Christ,
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Below
Greg Belows is Mitch Joel’s partner at Distort Media. This is where Henrik Ryosa and the authors of the Vigilant Citizen became acquaintances. Henrik has a death metal band illomennation.com and a media production company scanime.com
Take special note of the Lion which is an occult and arcanum symbol indicating elitist ideals and illuminism.
Henrik Ryosa other animation company http://www.voxhouse.net/tag/henrik-ryosa
He is one of the Vigilant Citizen insiders and was involved in phase one of acquiring the identities of all who might be able to expose their little scam. That was before the VC forum reset that erased all information that some of these posters were revealing about Vigilant Citizen. That’s right, it was shut down because some people were onto them.
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Hey JJ Virgil and Just-in Time,
Thank you guys so much for the detailed background information! What a wicked online cabal that is, I could throw up! I really can’t see the fun in cheating on and lying to people like these pseudo-insiders do. What’s the goal in researching our spiritual truth when the only thing they get out of it is more egoism, greed and elite thinking? If they knew how little they understand of Gods creation…
Well, peace to you guys and keep on working for a better future in real freedom.
Greetz, chaukee
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Just out of curiosity: Why would you post two comments with two different names (“JJ Virgil” and “Just-in Time”), both with the same e-Mail address and IP address? I must admit that I don’t like such games!
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Sorry Chaukeedaar,
I’ll admit, I actually forgot which pseudoname I used the day before. I’m just trying to get this information out to as many blog sites on the Vigilant Citizen as I can because I don’t like the scam these individuals are perpetrating, playing games with people’s minds to bank 50-100k a month, yes A MONTH. They’re playing on people’s fears and paranoid conspiracy minds and making a lot of money for it, while hiding their own true identities. I wonder why? Could it be their professional image as producers and entertainment journalists would be at stake? I wonder when more people find out who is really behind the Vigilant Citizen, if they’ll appreciate it.
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Hey Just-In-Time,
ok, fair enough! Thanks for coming back and clearifing. You know, if you would have done it to fabricate more weight by creating fake user names (I guess one of the methods of disinfo agents) you surely would not have come back to clearify. They normally leave controversies they’ve created untouched 😉 Although I would have liked you stepping forward when I addressed your alter agos in my response above… Never mind.
I don’t know if we can really change the course of things with our texts on the web, but at least I learned a lot about their deceiving methods with this VC shit.
Peace, Chaukee
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It’s all true, but they are doing it because they make thousands daily from Google adsense and other advertisers on their website. He’s part of the Global Information Network pyramid scam which costs $1000.00 to belong to monthly/ but rakes in suckas who believe they can be made rich overnight. You can blatantly see the affiliate ads onVigilant Citizen;s other sister sites knowledgefiles.com and secretarcana.com. Kevin Trudeau started the GIN, and previously was imprisoned due to pyramid scams. It’s hard for a cheetah to change his spots!
There were two other insiders involved in the collection of names that go by the names of Jones. Actually yhey were one person and used a hegelian dialectic to trick people. It was a big headache and they tried to silence all the Christians on the site by becoming their friends and then using a hegelian dialectic steering them away from the vigilant citizen. It resulted in a board reset like Just-In-Time said. Wut up Homie?
Vigilant Citizen himself admits to being a Gnostic Christian. If you research gnosticism like I have you will figure out it’s Luciferian and Satanic to the core. I once brought all this information to light on the message board and vigilant citizen erased it all so I’m storing it on my own free blog that i’ve linked here. I debated a gnostic satanist in it and revealed this luciferian ideology once and for all.
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Hey Daciple,
Awesome and really well-grounded work you did on VCs forum. I’ve just read your first post and especially liked those statements:
(http://daciple.myblogsite.com/entry1.html)
“Its the different opinion of Jesus and the Future you predict that is IDENTICAL to the Gnostic Freemason Luciferian Satanic Elite which is why I state that you are professing disinfo New World Order Propaganda. You IMO arent exposing the Elite in anyway other than what they want. The Elite, who profess the same Spirituality as you do with the same “Idealic Vision of Future of Humanity” as you do, want to expose themselves as Evil to the World, to get people to want to Rebel to against the Establishment they have set up. In this they will live out the Symbol of the Phoenix which they love, tearing down the old to give Re Birth to a Better System for THEM.”
“…as all Systems in IDEAL are awesome and ALL of them in Practice work to do the exact same thing, condense power to the Elite, the people who set up the System. Hence my position in Politics get the Hell out of the Dialectic, you instead are content to participate in the Dialectic just as the Elite desire and push for the plan and purpose of them who created the Dialectic.”
“Theosophist rule the freaking World Artisan, they are the ones who Established the United Nations, and you are insane to think that the United Nations which is the First Major Step in the Unity of the World isnt influencing the New World Order.”
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Seems to me like there are far too many people out there worrying about the baddies – real or imagined. I challenge all of you to concentrate only on that which you want in your world. Start with this powerful creative principle and you will naturally stop feeding energy into things and people that we would all prefer didn’t exist. They thrive on it. Without being noticed they simply cease to exist, and they can have no power. The truly clever people are utilising this powerful manifestation ability to co-create a brand new world which is really pleasant. Now that’s what I call smart!
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These are very wise words, the most positive advice I have seen since I started reading any of this debate.
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You give good advice think I will take it mate and leave all this wicked nasty ego shit behind.
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i am gnostic and i’m offended
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i like 🙂 ich mag was du tust hier – danke
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HAHA wow I was thinking the exact same thing about the logo on the right… but just thought that is was another advertisement so he can have the site… I just googled the book to see if I can get it for free (well his sites are free why should I pay for information that is opensource?) anyway THANK YOU, funny thing is that I usally look out very close to what I read and were it comes from… but after doing it sometime I didnt look so closely anymore ^^ thank you for reminding me that they are everywere (I kinda figured this, like dan brown, but I didnt excpect THAT site to be one) I really need to start to be more picky again 😉
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Hey Ouendan,
Thanks a lot and be assured that this finding also changed a lot on how I rate information sources in the alternative media… When I don’t know an author and I find suspicous stuff in it (like any traces of New Age and occult symbolism) I now start by researching on that author. Everybody who gets heard these days automatically also gets attacked with the DISINFO-AGENT label somewhere, for right or for wrong – in the end its still an individual process of weighting evidence. Quite delicate 😉
Greetings to you and good research!
Chaukee
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Has anyone seen the e-book? If so, can you tell me if his chapter on the “Illuminati Pyramid of Blagnac” uses photographs? Thanks.
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I always walk away from sites, at the first sign of dis-info etc. I don’t care either way, if VC is what you say it is, I’m not willing to take the risk of being suckered in… The GIN thing is what made me run from VC, after 10 seconds of watching their promo “10 of the wealthiest blah blah blah” says a lot… thanks
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Like Quendan, I thought that advert was just so the site could keep going… there’s always adverts on VC for things that go against the grain of what VC is “preaching”… now I understand why
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the links to this blog have now vanished from VC… My farewell is still there, but doesn’t mean much without it being tagged onto the posts with the links.
I am really kicking myself. I’ve been reflecting on my time at VC. I now remember being highly suspicious of VC at first, it took a while to warm to the site. AND, it was that advert / logo, that spiked my suspicions now I think of it. I didn’t post on there until recently, due to being wary. The reason for starting to post, was recently, I have been getting “feelings”. These feelings, compelled me to share my (albeit limited) knowledge and intuition, so as to help others in their understanding. I wanted to help people come to terms with the often scary concepts, and to help them to stay strong and positive… I feel a bit foolish now, for letting my guard down, and not sticking with my gut feeling about VC.
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Hey “was suckered in!”,
Looks like another VC-style censorship… 😉 I actually did not see your comment there, but it must have been sent by comment notifications to many registered users as I get hits on end from that “Tutankhamun” article…
I’ve read some of these comments and part of the article – its so obviously luciferian, it stinks.
If I can give you a small advice: Please don’t feel (a bit) foolish for trying to make people stronger and more positive in face of these desillusioning NWO propaganda. You could not have found a better place for doing that as MANY people still are searching for answers at VC’s site but don’t have enough developed spirituality to block the negativitiy of it. As long as you don’t get censored, that is…
I’ve come to the conclusion that only God-consciousness (to the true one, the positive source of everything, not to the jealouse wanna-be one) will help us to go past these difficult times without damage and with the most positive experience/growth. The same goes for Christ-Consciousness. Everything else (new age and stuff) is illusionary, egocentric and a plain detour on our journey. Love for God, then for ourselves and for others, not this egoistic self-LOVE they are preaching.
Let us be confident, in the name of the creator!
Hare Krishna, Chaukee
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“I’ve come to the conclusion that only God-consciousness (to the true one, the positive source of everything, not to the jealouse wanna-be one)”
Um…isn’t that a Gnostic view point?
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Preach Brother! I’ve always suspected that site. Although, there is a lot of good information but some just doesn’t make sense. I believe that site was just set up for profits and not to awaken the masses
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Hey J_Crow,
You must be right about the profits argument, at least partly. No troll has been sent yet by VC to my article, so I suspect that he thinks in terms of marketing – Any News is Good News – and hope it will drag traffic to his site, even if it debunks VC.
Having said that I would like to reinforce my thought about VC trying to make the Illuminati seem more powerful as they actually are – and even literally make them stronger. As you guys probably know, its part of their occult believe-system that reality can be formed by thoughts/wishes/visualization. Now if this was a true rule in spirituality, think of what would happen when thousands of VC readers concentrate their thoughts on that whole Illuminati symbol crap he puts in front of their eyes all the time. At one point we all start to realize that the symbols really ARE everwhere, everytime we feel a bit more lost or angry or what ever – at least we do not feel positive emotions in these moments. I suspect that is how they think the world can be manipulated, and to some extend it might have some truth in it.
My best method against it: Regularly disconnect from any media and truly LIVE in the sense that life was originally designed for…
Now enough of it, wish you all peaceful days!
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BTW, ignore my last comment. Case resolved. You are all right though when alarm bells go off about the GIN, though.
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Truth to be told, I was once a big fan of VC too. Luckily, I found your blog. THANK GOD! And thank you…. 🙂
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Hi all! It happened to me too! Darn-it-all!! I’m thinking of updating my effort to include listing some other sites who’ve also exposed him. It’s funny how difficult it is for people to see the truth, isn’t it? Oh well… http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/
Peace! 🙂
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@Nia: Thank you a lot for the support! But be assured, I’m just an ordinary guy with a little knowledge, a little intuition, but a strong sense for righteousness, thats all 😉
@yoy50: Welcome aboard, awesome blog you got here! Just signed up, that pedophile secret language information is top!
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Hi there chaukeedaar
Awweee, thanks, man! Pedophiles are so creepy aren’t they?! It’s time to “shut em down”! 😉
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I am relatively new to the search for information on the topic of Illuminati or any “conspiracy theory” for that matter. I have commented on another post of yours about Sitchin. It wasn’t that long ago, but I spend a lot of free time researching. I learn something new everyday. My original intention of my research was to find evidence that we aren’t alone in the universe when it comes to other intelligent life forms. But lately I’m getting confused and turned around. All this information is just stacking on top of more information and mixed into all of it is opinion and perhaps corruption. When I read other blogs where the authors seem so knowledgeable and confident about certain things I have a hard time believing it. If something like the Illuminati is so powerful and so secret how could anyone know so much about it, without being apart of it? I am not saying you are, but I guess I am just stuck on where to find real information. I came across the VC website. I found it interesting and also had a suspicious feeling about it. I realize using my head is the best way to discredit someone such as noticing they are selling things or referring everyone to join this group to get all of the inside info. I guess i am asking you, where do you get your information from? And what makes your information the trump over anyone else’s? I am not trying to attack you or say anything you say is false. It’s just I keep finding myself coming to your blog and usually your blog is saying that all the information I just read, is false or misleading…
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Hey dear Blake,
Your question is fair enough, my next post will be on my information sources. But please give me a couple of days as I’m very busy at work these days.
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Cheers to this blog!
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Whoever wrote this blog is a very misguided holier-than-thou. I believe in critical thinking and this certainly reminds me why.
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Right. VC articles are well written and full of observable truths. It is ALWAYS the readers job to examine, analyze and draw their own conclusions. Always find alternative sources and think for yourself. If VC were a disnfo agent, would it make Rhianna’s Umbrella video any less sinister? No, it wouldn’t. The info is not disinfo at all. It is observable, verifiable evidence of the dark side of the industry and of society in general. Same thing with Alex Jones. People say he’s an agent, or whatever. Even if it were true, he still woke me up and inspired me to do more research for myself, which led me to becoming even more aware. Stop taking peoples’ word and find out for yourself! The articles themselves contain plenty of information and are free. I’ve never sent a penny to VC, and there is plenty of dissenters in the forums. You don’t have to buy any ebooks if you don’t want to, smh.
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@Rightjam: Thanks alot!
@Jortsa Kerppu: And the award for the least-founded comment goes to… Please proof your critical thinking beyond a hit-and-run judgment and show where I’m wrong.
In my understanding, fighting Illuminati deceivers is not about being holy, but a necessity for ethical people with some responsibility and love for the creation and its inhabitants.
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Here, here on the Jortsa reply!!! 😉
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Yeah he removed my comments many times…I no longer read this site, what he claims “they” do, he does himself. what Ive written on vc was, for example, that he no longer needs to show the same thing over and over…we got the point now!! Instead he should write what ppl needs to do to be saved in the afterlife(accknowledge life is about Jesus). Now , he couldnt bear that…he or “they”
I just feel smt is off with the site..he says the symbols are damaging..yet he shows the same thing over and over
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Hey Lisa,
Way to go, lets try to show the people some possible solutions to the problems, not the problems over and over again! The occult people get angry easily as soon as you mention God, the Creator, Jesus, Lord Krishna – anything that reminds them of their spiritual smallness and negativity. Thats one way of unmasking them.
I personally do not mind what names and concepts people use in their belief systems, I just don’t like when they lie about it and deceive others. Luciferians are liars by design.
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God Does Not Resemble any thing in any way. Everything has been Created in pairs by Him. If we resemble Krishna and Jesus to some extents, then they cannot be likened to God in any way. God Always Existed and Is Not Bound to this temporal and spacial dimension that Krishna and Jesus and we all live in. God Just Exists and Is Seeing and Hearing everything at every time.
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ya he removes my comments about why he writes the same thing over and over using so much of the same visual imagery especially the sex stuff, its obvious its job is to really convert you to the devil and make him seem more powerful than he really is and create anger fear etc among those who wont be… take what you can out of the site and leave the rest, thats what i do. my comments dont even get posted anymore probably based on ip or email, same with alex jones’ site. o well, they are fucked becuze there are plenty of intelligent true belivers in Jesus Christ with divine intuition and good judgment/critical thinking skills that are just gonna take the good out of it and leave the bad. the comments on his articles are extremely poor and shallow and staged to how he/they want.
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Yes, Just-In-Time, take special note of the lion, it’s the symbol of a country too, dumbass…
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Ah, I see, name-calling arrived at my blog… Divide-and-conquer is so obvious. You guys can fool the public with your masonic methods, but not the blogosphere any more. Hope you enjoy your life at your low frequency.
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Sorry, but it’s really what a post like Just-In-Time or JJ’s deserve. You can take any symbol and claim “it’s illuminati”. Believe as you will, but the fact is plain as day for all to see if you actually bothered to do a 5 second search on something like “lion national coat of arms” it is in a handful of nations crests. I guess that means these countries are Illuminati and everyone who likes the designs are also? Are you really that deluded? And how is calling a person “low frequency” different from any other form of name calling? You know it isn’t, so I suggest you chill with all this “so and so is an agent” stuff and worry about yourself and let God sort out the rest. 😉
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The Lion IS a masonic symbol and as such is a possible indicator for these groups, and nobody is as stupid as to think a symbol has anything exlusive on its use… All your arguments are just your own interpretations and allegations of what Just-In-Time and me were saying.
“Low-frequency” was used as an adjective, not a name, but I’m not sure if you’ll get the difference from your logical abilities you present here. At least there is a difference in the reason for my offense: You call people dumbass for their different opinion, I call you low-frequency for your attitude.
So your suggestion shows why you really are upset, people like you cannot bear FREE SPEACH and different opinions and want people to shut up and obey. I worry about what I choose, if it’s the powers behind the curtains, so be it.
Enough time wasted. I actually should not be surprised to attract flies when talking about shit.
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Don’t worry too much about it Chauk. Henrik Ibsen is the moniker of one of VC’s boys, Mr. Ryosa. They were looking for monetary gain for allowing us to conduct an experiment through the website. There are other legalities I am not permitted to divulge at this time, but Ibsen is one of VC’s cheerleaders.
Our experiment is ongoing. Thanks for playing along Ibsen 😉
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Several countries as well as many different products such as liquors and tobacco too. Welcome Henrik Ryosa, we were wondering when you were going to chime in 🙂
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Is this the same Henrik Ryosa of here
http://www.youtube.com/HenrikRyosaMusic
So he says in his intro that he’s into design and death metal and has liaised with another production company in Canada. Sounds just like what Justin Time was saying about the founders of Vigilant Citizen and their Distort Media company. Look at his other website illomennation which reads Illumination and his scanime.com website with the infamous masonic lion just like Justin Time identified.
I wonder how people following these occultists can be so completely lost as to believe they’re actually Christians, lol, death metal is satanic in origin. The Devil doesn’t really hide his tracks now does he, lol.
How dumb do these guys think people are? Apparently it works though, if you look at the people commenting here like the second Daciple and Tweeterfist, and the majority of users on the vigilant citizen website are all like cattle to the slaughter. They’re totally inebriated and dumbfounded as to what’s right in front of them, smh.
On the other hand they’re all probably part of the gang that runs stuff over there so we really shouldn’t be surprised they’re here denying all of that earlier stuff that just makes logical sense.
Disinformation specialists to the max.
by the way I found this website doing a search onwho is the vigilant citizen, it’s ranked on the first page of google for that term so your doing something right!
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People always have a tendency to imagine the worse. They take a term like death metal and attach the devil or satan to it just because it’s very strong in it’s expression. It never ceases to amaze me how fools will demonize things they do not know.
and SMH right back at you Sonny!
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@sonny: “by the way I found this website doing a search onwho is the vigilant citizen, it’s ranked on the first page of google for that term so your doing something right!”
I know, I even moved up from the bottom of the first page to the fourth position. It might have been the reason why they finally sent their kiddies over here to spam the discussion 😉 Next step would probably be crackers trying to attack my blog or my systems…
But now I’m not listed any more… Only if you search for vigilant citizen and disinfo. Well, it looks like the marketing machine has been activated and generated some better ranking for other pages about VC… Thats how it works folks, but never mind, anybody with an open mind and some intuition will find out what we’ve found out for ourselves!
Cheers, Chaukee
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Funny, now I’m back on third position in google when I search for vigilant citizen…
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Jesse aka Dantalion aka Toby all one in the same or not, I don’t really care.
Listen, whatever falling out you had with the owners of the site was in no way inspired by me.
I’m just a creative guy from Canada that was asked to create, you know, stuff for them. I knew of nothing more than the site was being overhauled for logistics and analytics collection.
For all I know that could have been google analytics. That’s all I knew.
Does it really have to be all that sinister now? Canada is a big place btw, and as you stated I don’t even live there anymore.
You really want to know what sort of stuff I’ve been working on? Well check out one of my latest projects, since you or one of your “cohorts” claimed to be a doctor you might find interest in this
http://web.me.com/psrehab/REHABILITATION/DNS-VIDEO.html
and WORD right back at you brosef.
Hank
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You seem to be more upset than I am… interesting how one word or name not even directed at you can put you in such a huff so easily. Oh well.
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To say you’re conspiracy theorists. You’re so more paranoid then usual. The ads on VC relates to what’s posted. He does not control the ads [the ads are a way to pay for the site.]. Of course, none of you would know of this since you obviously don’t run a site. So, I have only one question. When will you all get a life?
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This sounds defensive, like something the owner of that website would say, duh!
Why else would you comment that no one else would know that ads are a way to pay for the site because they don’t run one? Chaukadeer runs one right here buddy! It’s a freely hosted site, and even one like yours would cost no more than like $10.00 a month to run. It’s the time and effort you put into misleading people to scams like the GIN that are questionable. In true disinfo fashion though, what else would any one expect of you to come here and make it seem like ads are justified because you need to recover a few bucks. Sure it’s about the money, but you’re also misleading people. You should be ashamed that you’re helping to ruin the lives of kids these days by leading them astray!
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First off, the comments from Daciple above are not from the real one of VC. I am friends with him and I can get him here to prove his authenticity if anyone wishes. There is a plagiarist (I am sure who) going around posing as him and other members of VC, slandering the site, owner, and other members, including Henrik, who I am also friends with.
I moderate VC and have been a long time member. I have no bias towards VC, ask any of the many members there concerning the ”civil war” that took place earlier this year and they will tell you VC and I actually had very bad blood, so no, I am not just a mouthpiece for him.
I do not know him personally and seldom talk to him. I, like many of you, are clueless as to if he holds malcontent in intention. I am a Christian and don’t necessarily agree with his beliefs (Mystical Christianity is all we know) but this should not be the standard to measure disinformation upon, especially considering VC seems content in providing simple information and letting his viewers come to their own conclusions, which is good. I know his articles and forums helped me come to Christ in the first place and I know many share this testimony.
As for this article, it appears desolate in any true substance to claim psyop/disinformation towards VC. Can you please show me where the logo for GIN is on his site? I cannot find it and don’t remember ever seeing it to begin with. If it was an advertisement, that is a whole other story and has no reflection on the owner of the site as those ads are put up by Google based on how relative the content is.
As for you people calling wolf based on him deleting your comments or whatever, if you went to VC’s actual forums you will see there is a HOST of diverse outlooks with free speech being fully endorsed. VC in no way controls what information is put out there, and people like myself continually condemn the things VC supposedly supports.
You, the author, claim VC promotes that the ”Illuminati” (Bad term considering they are simply one secret society of many with regards to the NWO) are all powerful. They are and we should all understand what we face against. You also say he promotes how we have already lost. I don’t see how you get there, but no, so long as our faith is with Christ then we have already won.
I don’t know your exact views, but if you are a secular revolutionist of some sort then you are the one being pawned here, and if you are preaching along these lines then it is YOU who is the disinformation, whether you know it or not.
I hope you reply to this, I look forward to hearing from you. Everyone is welcome to the VC forums as well as I would love to converse with each of you. God bless.
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The VC forum is full of shills
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Hey Tweeterfist,
Thanks a lot for passing by and telling your background! Finally someone who brings some arguments why my opinion about VC could be wrong.
As for the “Daciple” case, sad to see that people take over identites so often in “our” business, something I would never do. The info on the site of the original Daciple is valuable for my claim however.
The GIN logo was present on VCs main site the for a couple of weeks until I wrote this post, plus at least another week after that. It was NO RANDOM included advertisment from sources like Google Ads or the redverstisment network, but it was put there constantly, without any Ad rotation, on several pages of VCs. You could find hundreds of people having read my article and checked the logo at VCs site and having seen it with their bare eyes. Now that it has been removed I’m so confident that the main part of my assumptions was right that a simple “Can you please show me where the logo for GIN is on his site?” will not convince me of his honest intentions (if I understood you correctly, you are not convinced 100% either).
Now if censorship should have vanished from the VC boards, first it was not that way all the time, and second, the article section still gets censored, so what does this tell you about the general value system of these guys behind VC? For me, thats just mind-games, fooling yourself.
I completely agree that ”Illuminati” is a “bad term considering they are simply one secret society of many with regards to the NWO” – I often use this term for the same reason as VC does – simplification in titles to rouse the curiosity of readers. Guilty of that one.
You are also right that with my assumptions on the motivation of “VC” in general I could be complety wrong or naiv. Thats why I wrote “I GUESS” 😉
As another wise blogger wrote, only the future will show if we have been part of the solution or of the problem!
As for what drives me, well, my article “https://chaukeedaar.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/who-is-chaukeedaar/” would give you my background. I’m more of a deist, feel very close to the culture of the Hare Krishna movement, as well as the original spirit of Jesus Christ (not the churches-version).
Cheers to you and have a successful incarnation!
Chaukee
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Thanks for replying man.
VC originally let speculative discussion towards him fly in the past. I was one of the main speculators, actually lol. What came out of it however was the collapse of the forum, a ”civil war” so to speak. It at least was a big catalysts, there were a number of other reasons. We have since found out it was a poser fundie Christian who orchestrated all the madness. He earned the trust of myself and other Christians and segregated the forum playing both protagonist and antagonist, real elite tactics stuff. It is this same person who I and others feel is posing as certain members and speaking out against VC. The same messages found here can be found exactly as they are on a number of other sites. But for all these reasons, VC doesn’t allow it anymore. That probably fuels to the speculation but I’ve seen the damage it helped cause so I don’t blame him.
In short, I don’t think anyone has enough validity to boldly claim VC as info as you are clearly preaching here. I just say this from a logistics approach. I can see where one makes the claim that his site externalizes the Mysteries and the elite and this can indeed be used as a negative effect for us and a positive one for them, but at the same time it can promote what is, in my opinion, the truth, as it had done for me towards Christ. He leaves it open to the viewer and I can agree with this method, though I know I personally wouldn’t go that route if I were to have such a site in place.
Concerning your beliefs, I must say that I am in full opposition to them. Through my research, the elite were intent on opening us up to the Eastern beliefs through the Sexual Revolution, as Crowley’s Book of Law called upon in 1904. Now I know that’s a general term, Eastern beliefs, but what you seem to hold (The blending of Eastern spiritualism, Gnosticism, and New Age) is the exact manifesto of spirituality I believe will be prevalent for the New World Order.
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“Concerning your beliefs, I must say that I am in full opposition to them”:
Must be a misunderstanding as I for myself have found out that New Age + Gnosticism and stuff is primarily promoted by NWO leaders themselves and I would never be in that boat ever (one world religion). Hare Krishna is about preaching God-Consciousness as primary tool to evolve in this life. You will not find any of this New Age (ascension, 2012, your are your own god a.s.o.) stuff in my blog posts.
These are my main articles where I take a stand against it:
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Vigilant Citizen is obviously disinfo. I post on that site and am a Muslim. I argue constantly against Daciple. He preaches fundamentalist Christianity while I preach Islam. And our posts are constantly censored
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If this is the real Truthseer, no, all you do is troll now, and you’re trolling here. Lawlz.
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loool real talk aint gota life. find sutin to do instead of wastin oxygen loll
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your a pathetic troll truthseer and we all know it and you run around VC with all this insider information of your own, or so you want people to believe.When the forums went down a few months ago within minutes you had all kinds of information on why they went down. Hmmm…..
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Err… Dude, I wasn’t registered when it went down. I’m a new member. EVERYONE. Go to the members panel and choose to see the members with mosts posts. I’m no 4 there, I believe
I WAS NOT ON THE OLD SITE
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Truthseer,
I have copied the following from the VC websie for you to read……..
In order to keep the comments section interesting to all readers, comments are moderated and the following will be deleted:
-Personal attacks and insults
-“First”
-Hate Speech
-Off Topic
-ALL-CAPS
-Abusive Net-Speak (“i thk dis iz crazi”)
-Trolling or derailing the conversation
-Spam
-Proselytizing for or against a religion
You are censored because, as you state, you preach religion.
Religious zealots ruin the discussions on the VC site. It is not the place for
your type of arguing.
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Yeah, I read that intro at VC’s comments section. I really wonder if proselytizing for spirituality as a solution to fight the masonic belief system would be tolerated or not… Well, actually I do not wonder, I’m sure it doesn’t.
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So… Is VC like not really ” really ” a good guy? My comments have been removed many times on his site but I didn’t think anything of it. Can SOMEONE please ( in short ) tell me what’s the deal 🙂
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Hi Lima– here’s the short version… when solutions cease to be shared that’s a disinfo person. Is he a nice guy? I think that might be beside the point, don’t you? I actually think the guy might be nice because as much trash as I’ve talked about him since I had to expose him too (and he definitely sees it) he actually hadn’t deleted my Amy Winehouse comment (oddly)… so that might make him a “nice guy”. 🙂 In my opinion… anyone that aides the new world order in any way isn’t nice as they are all working towards our ultimate demise. 😉 Hope that helps.
Hi Chaudeedar! Thanks for the “like”! 🙂
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Hey Jazz, thanks for jumping in, well put!
I would only add that targeted advertisement for a Kevin Trudeau scam site like GIN is obviously inside NWO…
Your welcome, I like the “Like”-button when everthing is already said! 😉
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Hi there Chaudeedar!
I was popping by to subscribe and say thanks for the “like” and saw her question so thought I’d chime in! I’ve been in her shoes before. 🙂 And it’s funny– I keep assuming people factor in GIN. Guess I’ve been at this for a while!
I like that button too! It’s a neat feature.
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Well since I am being impersonated here I might as well chime in, the Commenter who says their name is Daciple is NOT me, nor is the Blog they linked MINE.
However the long thread they copy and pasted from VC is from me in a debate I had with someone there and as such I would stand by those words themselves as they are posted on VC which can be read here:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4532
However and yet again, the Blog that was linked is NOT from me and I until this very moment had never seen this blog nor commented on it, the above poster is an impersonation of me and for proof, here is the Thread I created on VC where I can NOT be impersonated talking about that BS Blog under my name and this particular blog:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8092
This attempt at impersonating me was done as well on yoy50 blogsite which again there is a Thread on VC where I posted the Truth about that nonsense as well:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7596
If one takes a moment to read all of that and the Disinfo posted about VC they should take somewhat of a grain of salt to the poster and supposed info provided by JJ Virigl as the same Disinfo is on yo’s site and that exact post was emailed to me by the guy who is impersonating me on all of these different sites, who went under the name Toby Jones originally on VC.
Yall can believe whatever you wish about VC himself IDC, but the blog and the poster under my name isnt me or from me. I would agree pretty much with what Tweet said…
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That’s nice and all Daciple, but there is no user known as Toby Jones in the memberlist so how do we know you’re telling the truth? How does anyone know whether you’re not just another one of Vigilant Citizens personalities or not? You’re sure going through a lot of effort to deflect away from the facts divulged on who he is above which are more believable than your story. Just my two cents.
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yea I would expect you to say that TOBY!
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Am I the only one who recognizes that this Daciple character, the one going around claiming to be the Real One, is purposely trying to dumb down the way he speaks intentionally?
I’m not just talking about the paragraph long sentences without any punctuation because I realize there are a lot of people out there that are semi literate, but typing out the word Yall is sort of a dead ringer, is it not?
I mean, I know some people actually say Y’all in real life, but who goes to the trouble of typing it out like that on purpose to sound like a country bumpkin on a blog comment section?!
Weird!
SMH!
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haahaaaaa whatever you say Toby! Be well Tobartan, you are in my prayers. May you come to Christ one day soon. I said I wasn’t going to post again but I can’t help it, this is all so funnnnyyyy
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Hey Daciple,
I’ve now read your post at VC’s forum about “you” being impersonated. I understand the personal disconfort something like this can create, but names are names in the end and what counts is only the thought in the words, the essence so to speak. At the moment your texts just look to me like another distraction from the statement of the original daciple who tried to unmask VC’s inherent occultism. And now you align with what Tweet said…? Common!
What I did not understand is the obedient way you asked for your post at VC’s board not getting censored by the mods… If you’re for real and have written the texts of the original daciple I really don’t see how this wisdom comes together with the pathetic way you act over there (by begging for your content not be deleted). I would be out of there in a minute among such a suppresive group…
In the end it seems that my blog post about the VC-GIN connection was true enough for you guys playing that dialectic game right here in my comments section. I honestly did not expect so much confirmation.
Namaste, Chaukee
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What’s wrong with what Tweet said?
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You have to be careful when taking advice from any member who is part of Vigilant Citizen’s inner circle like Tweeterfister is. If you read along some of the articles he posted he came to Christ after being a hard core Satanist. He says that on the site itself, so take his testimony with a huge dose of salt, sea salt preferred, haha. Tweeterfist is one of VC’s right hand men.
All that said, here are some facts.
Vigilant Citizen website is owned by two different individuals but there are about a dozen contributors to the site. Most of the users are dumb kids that want to read about sensational conspiracy theories because it gives them a sense that they understand something about the world more than the authorities, read; the adults in their lives, do. That makes them feel superior and most teenagers like to feel that way.
I am part of the group known as the “Jones”. We conducted an experiment through the Vigilant Citizen website to garner specific data on social proofing. It was a social experiment. Both VC owners were and are a part of the project. There was an internal falling out on how the data was going to be disperesed.As scientists we were looking to determine what motivates youth these days. The VC owners wanted some sort of renumeration for our participation through their website. NOTE* their website is not the only one that this experiment was conducted through.
There were many accomplices to this work. Some random users that joined the site prior to our showing up, and others during, and still others after. Some of the users who were working with us knew what was going on. Tweeterfist knew part of the experiment and worked dilligently in the beginning to help bring out some of the effects we were after. After the falling out with the VC owners, he stayed with VC. That’s fine because there really was nothing to gain other than data collection, mostly on mind set of the sub conspiracy culture. Some of the work is still going on now. It’s all %data% collection!
Let’s put it this way. In order to continue to be able to influence the minds of today’s youth, we need to know how they think and what direction they’re heading in. It’s not really about creating the environment for them, more of tailoring the existing one to their tastes.
There is and will never be any sinister about it.
Problem is that VC owners wanted re-numeration for our efforts. That was not going to happen, never in the beginning nor now. They make enough money through their site.
Social engineering like this is constantly being conducted.
As you were, back to the blue pill 🙂
Mr. Jones 😉
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Hey Jimmy Jones,
Thanks for bringing some more distraction and disorientation to the discussion… 😉 I mean, what kind of scientific experient would that be that tries to provoke/”bring out some planned effects”? Looks to me like you have no idea about scientific experiments in the first place. And your goal would be to influance the minds of today’s youth? What sick kind of buyer of such a study would this be? Would sound like global=irresponsible corporations which places you right in the same elite corner I suspect VC to be. Tavistock-style!
And then you want to continue this experiment in secret and still lay it out at an ordinary “truther” blog like mine? Common, is my article and the discussion here really that important to you guys that you invent all this sutff? I really don’t get it…
I should see it from the entertaining perspective if it wasn’t for all these credulous lovable people out here getting disturbed by either your experiments or your disinfo (above).
Ok, now thats about the time I allow you to steal from me… 😉
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lol Toby, I’m sure a lot of your work has been a big social experiment, and when people get on to you you or challenge your power you throw them away and then play little games in slandering and posing as them. It’s all in vain however and a sign of someone pretty sad.
Yeah I was a LaVeyan Satanist many years ago before even coming to know about the New World Order. I do openly admit this because it really shouldn’t effect what I say today. I held a humanistic mindset from the ages of 13-16, much like what many kids do anyways.
And no, I’m def not VC’s right hand man lol. Anyone actually on the boards who have seen what’s taken place between VC and myself can assure you of that.
Keep having your fun though Toby.
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I should also note that Daciple, one of the more vocal proponents of this study is continuing to prove vital to our data collection.
Thank you for participating Daciple. Your efforts have been more helpful than you know. You move on command, and are not aware of it yet. In terms of predictive behavior for a certain psychological subset, your contributions to our study are more valuable than you’ll ever know.
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This is all getting to be too much. So you’re saying that you were conducting a study through the vigilant citizen web forums? How do we know you too aren’t a part of that site and just saying this to further add to the escalating confusion about this all? I’m thinking that the real Daciple above let the cat out of the bag and the rest of you are here to do damage control. Smells fishy to me!
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and I’m talking about the first Daciple who said this:
“It’s all true, but they are doing it because they make thousands daily from Google adsense and other advertisers on their website. He’s part of the Global Information Network pyramid scam which costs $1000.00 to belong to monthly/ but rakes in suckas who believe they can be made rich overnight. You can blatantly see the affiliate ads onVigilant Citizen;s other sister sites knowledgefiles.com and secretarcana.com. Kevin Trudeau started the GIN, and previously was imprisoned due to pyramid scams. It’s hard for a cheetah to change his spots!
There were two other insiders involved in the collection of names that go by the names of Jones. Actually yhey were one person and used a hegelian dialectic to trick people. It was a big headache and they tried to silence all the Christians on the site by becoming their friends and then using a hegelian dialectic steering them away from the vigilant citizen. It resulted in a board reset like Just-In-Time said. Wut up Homie?
Vigilant Citizen himself admits to being a Gnostic Christian. If you research gnosticism like I have you will figure out it’s Luciferian and Satanic to the core. I once brought all this information to light on the message board and vigilant citizen erased it all so I’m storing it on my own free blog that i’ve linked here. I debated a gnostic satanist in it and revealed this luciferian ideology once and for all.”
Personally it sounds like he’s touched on something with the other JJ and Justin characters and Ibsen, the other Daciple, Tweeterfist and a few others who showed up are part of VC’s crew here to do controlled opposition.
That’s my two cents, again!
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Hey Montag,
Thanks a lot for showing up and reassure me that there are still some sane people out there 😉
Best wishes to you, Chaukee
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I am also one of the researchers that helped conduct this study. I was involved in the study design. I cannot give out specifics on the methods we used for our data collection or how we used certain sub groups and belief systems to bring about our effect, nor exactly what we were after because this information is sensitive and part of a bigger effort.
I can confirm that the owners of the VC website were on board.
I do want to correct something “Jimmy” said above, and that was the user known as Tweeterfist was not aware of any aspect of the experiment but satisfactorily responded to a few of the triggers we put out and was used to further escalate the study.
The group of individuals that fell prey to most of our methods were an interesting bunch. To be clear, part of the effort was to identify a certain sub-culture or psychological mind set that is prone to falling for conspiracies. The other part was how to create an environment that they will respond predictively to. Predictive behavior is very important to social scientists!
Several “co-conspirators” of our plan, if you will, were initially implimented to create dissention amongst the ranks while others were there to join in with the two sides that were forming as a result of this coordinated effort to create division.
Those who remain can ask themselves why certain “characters” or users are no longer around, and why they were typically involved in many of the arguments that were escalating one year ago on the forums. 😉
Further to that, rumors were carefully woven into the story at set intervals and observations of resultant behaviors were systematically noted and recorded.
Three citeria were identified amongst those who “bit” at the “hooks” thrown out.
1 – They were depressed invididuals, by admission. This was a criteria that was extrapolated after rapport was gained with individuals that showed aptitude through early “bites”
2 – They were unemployed
3 – They felt the world was against them. That is, early on in their lives they felt different and that has caused them to seek out why that was. This is a significant characterstic of the individual that is prone to conspiracies. Note* I am not saying the certain conspiracies do not exist.
I cannot reveal more at this time because the experiment is ongoing, but what I can say is that we achieved a high level of validity that many of these individuals are highly susceptible to conspiracies and create circumstances in their own minds to escalate them without any further “fuel”.
I will leave the ones responding and reading here with one major clue. Many of you observed that the user known as Toby displayed different personalities at different times. “Toby” was also very well versed in many different bodies of knowledge. That would be nearly impossible for one individual to achieve, although it does happen at the genius level. In truth, there were many contributors to Toby’s character at different intervals during his existence.
Administrators and moderators of the VC website, and the owners themselves can confirm that many different IP addresses were registered with this users postings.
The reason why some astutely understood the differences, and why others missed them and personalized this character, is because at different times during the experiment different researchers were using that moniker as has been mentioned above.
Again, there were about a half dozen different users posing as Toby during his entire existence.
Most users successfully personalized this character, and that was part of the data collection.
An “identity” with this fictional character has been created amongst the groups being observed at the VC website. This is very important information for us in our task, but not the end-all of the study, details of which I cannot elaborate on at this time.
For now, this is all I am permitted to say.
Daciple (the real) and Tweeterfister 🙂 (the real) thank you for your contribution here. There were predictive measures we were after and coming here after the series of emails sent to Daciple has been an enormous bit of information to us.
More details will follow eventually…
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lol the plot thickens eh? Honestly, I’m actually believing in this because much of it does make sense.
Unfortunately I don’t have any of those three traits your research tags to conspiracy theorists. I believe I was unemployed for a bit while much of this was all going on but that didn’t last.
Very interesting though.
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Well I give it the benefit of the doubt. Can’t say I actually believe it but, really, I don’t even care anymore.
May I ask how I resulted in this grand study? What were my triggers, and what characteristics of me did you come to find? Tell me and I will answer truthfully on how correct you are, I swear to Yahweh on that. Let’s see how well your research went, a win-win?
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I explained on your forum Tobartan that my depression was due to anxiety because my employers were trying to get me back to work and I was suffering from post-traumatic stress syndrome and couldn’t cope being out in public, but that was months ago. So how that even qualifies me for this study of you and your cohorts is sort of besides me.
You were the reason the forums were reset, and I don’t care if you were doing some sort of research with VC or are even VC or affiliated with VC or whatever, because it’s utterly not important to me.
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Tweeterfist you are either dumb or like the other guy said a cheerleader, and most probably a bit of both, to come here defending Vigilant Citizen like you do while professing to be a Christian.
All you have to do is look at knowledgefiles and secretarcana to understand that those sites are very much in positive promotion of gnostic and occult spirituality.
Look at the latest book he’s put up on his website you fool
“Church and Gnosis – A Study of Christian Thought and Speculation in the Second Century by F.C. Burkitt”
Can it get any more blatant than that?
The best way to promote anything under the radar is to do so while pretending to be a neutral journalist commenting on both sides yet leaving the reader to come to their own decision.
Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis
You are helping the cause by believing you are debating against this process. You are the antithesis that will lead to synthesis.
Here’s the process you don’t even know you are a part of, or maybe you do?
– Some practice so offensive that it can scarcely be discussed in public is advocated by a RESPECTED expert in a RESPECTED forum. (((Oh My God Symbols Rule The World. Masonic Symbols, like the lion….GASP!))))
– A reaction is garnered. At first, the public is shocked, then outraged. Read what Blake said above
“But lately I’m getting confused and turned around. All this information is
just stacking on top of more information and mixed into all of it is opinion
and perhaps corruption. When I read other blogs where the authors seem
so knowledgeable and confident about certain things I have a hard time
believing it. If something like the Illuminati is so powerful and so secret how
could anyone know so much about it, without being apart of it?”
– But, the VERY FACT that such a thing could be publicly debated becomes the SUBJECT of the debate. In other words, the focus of this debate slightly shifts somehow. This shifting can take several forms, depending upon the subject matter, but a slight shift always occurs. ((Enter the forums where highschool kids are accessing it on their mobile phones rather than paying attention to stuff that might truly educate their poor minds. You know, science is uhm baaaaaad baaaaaa sheeeep!)))
– In the process, sheer repetition of the shocking subject under discussion gradually dulling its effect.
– People then are no longer shocked by the subject. ((See Lisa’s response above))
– No longer outraged, people begin to argue for positions to moderate the extreme; or, they accept the premise, challenging, instead, the means to ACHIEVE it.
This process works so expertly and so gradually, the change in values and attitudes of the people against whom it is directed is almost invisible.
If you examine these six steps carefully, you will see separate elements. First, two sides in conflict are needed. One side is called “Thesis”, or the defender of the status quo. The second side is called “Antithesis” and is the attacker against the status quo.
The final stage is called “Synthesis”, which is neither Thesis nor Antithesis. In other words, Synthesis is the real intended goal of this scripted play, and it is really and truly neither Thesis nor Antithesis.
The books on knowledgefiles all contain varieties of embedded belief structures and commands designed to seduce the reader and aren’t there just for your information only.
They’re there to entice the young minds that are attracted to stories that Vigilant writes about. You’re either part of the problem or helping to promote it unknowingly by engaging in debate on the topics presented within the website. What a fool.
Read it for yourself and open your eyes
“knowledge files is your source for free books on occultism”
What does that say? Does it say, occultism is bad and part of the problem because symbolism from masonry comes from there, or does it read as if it’s an open promotion for occultism? Do you think for yourself or what? This VC guy is winding you up like the puppet you obviously are. For your sake I hope you clear the cob webs in your head.
“all filed are in pdf format and are readable on iphones, ipads and other devices”
Read this here you silly kid
http://www.webpronews.com/iphone-tracking-your-movements-2011-04
So every two hours apple is getting information on what you are reading and following through your iphone. Apple isn’t the only company that has put a data tracker on your phone that uploads your habits on a regular basis. Understanding what you think, where you go and what you buy is controlling you and everyone else, yet you’re probably sitting in your parents basement, not working and thinking you’ve made the big time because you are a moderator on his “unbiased” site. Wow, what a great accomplishment. I’m sure your parents are so proud.
I’ve confirmed for myself that the GIN ads were running on his site long ago. They most certainly weren’t google ads, and have since been taken down. Defending him on that count just proves what a doormat stooge you really are for defending someone without first confirming for yourself.
By the way. Who am I? I’d really like to know because it looks like you’ve convinced yourself than any and all people who talk out against your leader is of the same identity. You can’t fathom to believe that many people exist and are sophisticated and intelligent enough to see through his game? Nice blinkers you have there.
“He who has eyes to see, let him see, and he who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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Hey Randal,
Thank you so much for the knowleadgabe comment and the explonations of Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis – thats really what its all about, I completely agree!
Warm welcome to you!
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That’s a sweet piece of information on the dialectic at work Randal. I think you’ve nailed the nail on the head with that one and it’s obvious that the lackey’s for VC who showed up after the original information was posted are here to do damage control. You are right on that one! And Chaukadeer, good sir, ignore all the detractors because they just like to stir up trouble.
To everyone else who’s more believable, the one who has a website plastered with ads and a stupid ebook for sale, or someone like Chaukadeer who is doing this out of a sense of good will, through a labor of love?
Keep up the good work.
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Hey Sonny,
Welcome and thanks for the support! Don’t worry, most of the dialectic game these guys are playing here is just childs play for an old man like me, can’t take that for serious. I rather feel pitty for these poor people who fight a fight for an illusory creation like the VC site, and identify themselves with their NICKNAMES like weak-minded people. And last but not least think they can argue about my believe system when they snap some word up but don’t even take the time first to check what I really have written about religion and spirituality.
And yeah, some people don’t activate their brains when a site is full of advertising and business – I guess they need more time to get their experiences in life 😉 If GIN and Kevin Trudeau is not obvious enough they need to help themselves…
God bless, Chaukee
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Don’t be condescending. I know full well the tactics of Hegalian Dialect. I also acknowledged that VC is a mystic Christian and I’ve already come to the possibilities of your conclusion LONG ago, which was one of the things that helped bring the forums down to begin with.
Regardless, I was brought to Christ, NOT the Mystery schools, through his site and forums and I know others have been as well. Take a step into the VC forums and you will see it doesn’t all centre around what he himself writes about, not at all.
I defended VC because I looked at the article here and claimed it to be faulty in dubbing someone as controlled disinfo, which it is. Need more proof than what has been displayed here to make such a bold claim.
I do believe VC externalizes these beliefs but that doesn’t automatically mean someone is going to gulp it up. I have used his sites and the books downloadable from them for my own advantage in confirming my faith, and I believe all can do so as well. Living proof is right there on the forums.
You have no idea what the former member Toby has done and what he continues to do in regards to impersonating people like myself, Henrik and Daciple on MANY sites. This is nothing new and you are ignorant on the subject so hold your tongue.
Ultimately, you only tell me things that I already came to figure out almost a year ago, and as I said, it was on the basis of this that the civil war on VC occured with a number of Christians (Henrik, Daciple, and myself) saying what you did right out in the open. I don’t defend VC because he’s my ”leader”, I defended him here because of the content provided towards claiming him disinfo.
VC’s forums are highly populated by Christians who preach the truth full bar and expose the Mystery schools VC may be seen to promote through his site. We also talk of how the Mysteries are being externalized and Hegalian Dialect, a long with a grand delusion to have the NWO emerge, will be used in order to bring them globally.
I am no Antithesis because I, and others, discuss this technique and how it will be used towards the same goals of which I am supposedly not even aware of. It’s all said out in the open, I’ve already covered it, next time maybe try not to think you know me and speak with some respect. Thanks bra.
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“Need more proof than what has been displayed here to make such a bold claim. ”
Now that’s ironic coming from you, a VC shill who’s been throwing out all sorts of claims without providing proof.
Take that log out of your eye bro.
LULZZZZZZ < the latter is you – asleep, or just playing dumb for the obvious dialectic you guys are pulling off over there at the VC site.
"I am no Antithesis because I, and others, discuss this technique and how it will be used towards the same goals of which I am supposedly not even aware of. "
You obviously missed the obvious in Randal's post. By playing both sides of the coin you are part of the dialectic and antithesis, but something tells me you already know that and are just playing dumb "Y'all" 😉 wink wink
I love that "respect" plea, like you've shown anyone here any ::rolls eyes again::
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well chaukader, all I can say is that to each there own. you can believe what you want but that is Toby Jones and his crew just trying to get me to stop promoting the gospel and vigilant citizen and I have had some cross words before but it doesn’t matter because I’m not censored on his website and that’s all that counts and montage and randal are obviously more of his clones, but you believe what you want. be well tobartan, may peace be with you.
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Do you know how dumb that sounds? Randal and Montag and the others all sound different and have different information and you want us to believe they’re all the same person?!
Then that this person is trying to shut you up from preaching the gospel but goes to the trouble to create a blog site in your name that is ACTUALLY PREACHING THE GOSPEL? And they’re the fake one?
Yeah right!!!
SMH.
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Daciple doesn’t even type like that. Go look on the VC site and compare the styles. Yes, enemies of something take the guise of what they hate and undermine it from within, while also controlling multiple sides. Surely you know this is a common tactic of the elite? (Not saying Toby and his possible crew are)
That’s the real Daciple, I can vouche my life on it. You all comment on how his typing downgrades when he was known on VC for his somewhat sloppy style and love of capital letters (He’s gotten better at controlling that now =P).
Yáll are being mind fucked hardcore lol. I probably still am a bit too, but go on to the actual VC forums, look up myself, Daciple, Henrik, etc. and you can authenticate who’s who.
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Also, Montag can easily be seen as a poser as that is part of the name of the real Daciple. Toby’s just wagging it in our faces now lol…
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Sonny maybe you are part of the Jones clan too maybe not.
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lol, whatever you say real Daciple, haha. Maybe Toby is a creation of you and your leader to distract from the first comment on this blog. The party started getting real hot after that comment didn’t it? You all, or YALL showed up mighty quick to take it into different directions huh?
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Pingback: My Information Sources « chaukeedaar's blog
Ah and sorry for my late reply Chauk. Christ-Consiousness is just another replicate of the Mystery schools and pretty much is Gnosticism and the New Age movement with a slightly different face. I don’t see how you can think of it differently, they share pretty much the same fundamental tenets? Self-deification is the raw doctrine of Lucifer, always has been, and is found in every big secret society.
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Wow, you guys are just pouring on the deflections, curve balls and the smoke screens now aren’t you? I still see it that the original Daciple struck a cord with you, and your actions are proving that to me.
“Also, Montag can easily be seen as a poser as that is part of the name of the real Daciple. Toby’s just wagging it in our faces now lol…”
No I’m not part of the Daciple crew, but you obviously are by admission. Why are you trying to make me out to be one of you guys?
And who the hell is this Toby character that you guys, or one guy, keep obsessing about? Did he steal your non existent girlfriend or something, lulz.
I also think it’s funny. A mod on VC’s website comes here to defend VC and at the same time say he’s not really on his side. Heeee heeee heeeee
“Yáll are being mind fucked hardcore lol” – Tweeterfist
You’re a hoot Tweeterfist. Who’s Yall? Why are you typing like the so-called real Daciple?
“I probably still am a bit too” – Tweeterfist
Anyone who’s on VC’s payroll like you obviously are, if you’re not one of the VC’s himself probably is being mind fucked.
Oh right, you’re all different people.
I like how you want everyone to go to the real VC site to get the real story. *wink*
That’s funny.
When will the rest of the alters show up?
I can just imagine you saying something like You reap what you Sow, yet are oblivious to that happening in this case right now. Keep smoking whatever you’re smoking and keep believing that your story, if you even have one because I’m not really following it at the moment, actually matters to anyone…losers!
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Commenting to you saying I’m still playing my antithesis role here, Hegalian Dialect loses it’s effects when people understand the aim of it. The only way it can work is if the people falling for it are ignorant towards the real goals of both opposing sides and the result that will come out of it, the result riding on the consent of the people, who obviously won’t consent if they know what’s up, and in many posts I let this be known.
Never said you were apart of the Daciple crew. You’re using a name related to Daciple however, I won’t say how, so either that’s a maajjor coincidence or it’s intentional. I won’t guess either way, what I have to say here isn’t focused on your sole viewing anyhow.
Toby already admitted who he (They) were above, which I’m somewhat surprised about. I give plausibility to his story but really I just don’t care. What I do care about is people posing as myself and friends and tarnishing our names, but I’ll take this as a form of flattery.
Mostly came here to defend myself and friends, but just because I’m a mod doesn’t mean I have some hard on for VC. I aint his friend, I don’t know him well at all, and I share similar suspicions towards what a number of people said here, in all honesty. However, I admire his work and how it has helped me on my seeking of the truth, as well as his forums. If it wasn’t for his forums and the people on there I may not be in Christ today as I am.
I also felt obligated to comment on this article proclaiming VC as a bona fide controlled op yet having a pretty weak amount of evidence. I see this far too often in the truth community, people trying to piece together things with flimsy means in all sorts of areas, and as a fellow truther I feel obligated to voice my opinions out on this. If I was a mere puppet I would not be voicing out all my opinions (Some of which actually go against VC) here as I am doing, so drop that schpeel already.
lol so because I say yáll you connect me to Daciple now? More flimsy reasoning from a soft conspiracy-muddled mind. You don’t know me, or how I regularly type, and you just gulp up what random people here have to say about me being on some pay roll without verifying the other side of the story. You are no better than one who just gulps up what the TV says and you probably nod your head and download whatever any random Youtube video has to say come conspiracies.
But this has already grown stale. Pretty pointless of me to banter with yáll as so. Think of me what you will, I could care less. I would like to discuss with Chaulk his beliefs however. I find it funny that he claims VC disinformation and people here cite VC externalizing esoteric beliefs when Chauk here is doing the very same thing with his Christ Consiousness. (Not meaning to deflect anything at you man, I would just like to discuss this more. I wouldn’t be able to satisfy the people here against me without showing them my Facebook and that I’m just some 19 year old dude but I aint obviously doing that)
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To anybody that cares here is my new response to Tobartan!
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3396&start=60
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Oh and yeah Chaukader, I refer people to the vigilant citizen website, so what?!
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Just throwing this out there… what does islam have to do with Luzifer conspiracies??? Christianity is the only religion (not even athesism can keep up) that can connect almost all of the fundamental factual conspiracies… I really dont see how Luzifer is implied to the conspiracies with islam, the belief system is even based on moon worship, which even where Islam fits in its part of the Luziferian conspiracy…
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Islam is a direct opponent to Christianity and it even boasts that with it’s doctrine that slanders Christ as our Lord and Saviour. Where Christianity was originally spreading, Islam now dominates. It is also the fastest growing religion in the world.
I believe Revelation mentions it’s inception with the 1st Woe. I’d look into that.
I also believe Islam will be a fundamental catalyst towards WW3. Their end times prophecy is one of conquest when the al-Mahdi is to appear and unite all them. Wouldn’t be too hard to pull this prophecy off and have the three Abrahamic faiths take part in one epic war… one which I believe will be posed as the end times (Islam being said to be the Antichrist, as mainstream Christianity is being conditioned today), and when the dust settles the TRUE Antichrist system will emerge, and it will preach the Mysteries (Luciferianism), these ascended masters/aliens/what have you (Can be all the same) hold the truth and come to help us.
Many will consider this the actual end times and Christ coming back with the ”real” message but it will all be one big delusion… and that’s the start of the New World Order.
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Thank you for the information. I was getting a bit wary of the VC website, especially since 99% of the forum is filled with absurdity and stupidity and he allows it to be that way. Regardless of whether or not he is a disinfo agent, his character remains questionable.
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If you look at the site a little while as a lurker it’s just one big mess mostly with stupid kids trolling each other and about only 20-30 consistent members at any given time, probably less than that. His, or their alexa rank is pretty good so he gets a lot of readers and there’s been dozens of story’s of the suppression of genuine knowledge that goes on there. For all we know these characters here are all just playing games like they do on that forum for idiots.
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Yes I see it the same as you do!
Exposing Islam is not the problem (moon worship, false teaching about the deity of Lord God, false Lord God etc.) Its just I wanted to know why Islamic believers try to connect their religion with the conspiracies that dont fit, and thank you for your answer!
Oh that is interesting, I thought (after doing research on Luzifer) that he wants to decieve ALL (even the religions he has created)… I kinda thought that New Age would be a good go on how to make a one world religion (As in Lord God and Luzifer being a force and nothing more, which would connect perfectly with “science” way of thinking) since christians automaticly reject the Islamic religion, if they would rise (Islam), we would rebell and that would also include the catholics (Which is also a created religion of Luzifer) but the believers of the corrupted bible would still rebell against the idea. If I were Luzifer (which I am not I am happy having Jesus Christ as my saviour) I would want to pull in everyone into the new religion without a rebellion (which would maybe happen aready in the new world order) He would be the messiah for the jews and muslims, aswell as he would be the returned Jesus again corrupting his own (force) religion so that his glory days begin, the worship to Luzifer, the bringer of Light! …
Well one thing is for sure, is that Islam will be an important part in Luzifers plan!
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You’re on the right track, for sure.
The New Age movement is probably our biggest target here as it’s beliefs encompass a variety of things suitable for the New World Order. They promote ideals akin to the Mystery schools (Self-deification through knowledge, the immortality of the soul as well in some cases, coincidentally the two first lies the serpent told Eve). It also promotes a ”global village” and it pretty much turns the New World Order around to be a GOOD thing (Would research the Venus Project as it is a system which I consider most relative to the NWO. It has also been touted by Zeitgeist, who is obvious disinfo)
I would research…
The Mystery Schools (Babylonian, Persian, Egyptian, Greek, Western, Eastern, you name it)
Kabbalism
Gnosticism (The Manicheans and Cathars as well)
The Assassins
Knights Templar
Rosicrucianism (And all subsequent Hermetic secret societies)
Freemasonry
The Jesuits (Loyola’s spiritual teachings and the Alumbrados as well)
Order of the Illuminati (Though you probably know a fare amount about them anyways)
Theosophy (Mother of the New Age movement)
Thelema (Created by Crowley, who prophecised of the Sexual Revolution in 1904 in his Book of Law)
And, of course, the New Age movement as a whole, of which ALL of these groups are in relation with.
Study their core teachings on gnosis and you will see how prevalent it has become in our world, and how all these groups are linked under this philosophy, the true form of Luciferianism. These beliefs will be promoted as liberating truths to the remaining masses after WW3 and this will enter us into the NWO, with many smiling and holding hands.
Hope I’ve helped, God bless. =)
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A brilliant attempt to sideline the main topic by the VC puppet mod
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Mhh yes the new age very intersting, I have noticed this has been brought into “style” in the 70s also called the hippi age (I call it the modern wiccan and cosmos age\movement) , where love and compation is praised, as well as organic food. Which isnt the first mother earth or cosmos movement, but I havent looked much farther…
The NWO (like you will know) creates a problem, people want something done, and then solve it while progressing on to their next goal… I believe the Greenpeace and\or other organic companies (help earth) also bring in mythology and earth elements (mother earth) beliefs to the normal person, who is loving and does want to help the future of the earth…
I work at a place where Rudolf Steiner is studied and his works is praised, their main thing is organic food, pray to mother earth, do earth rituals etc. They are into runes and wicca (which I noticed when they did the star dance, or pan dance, which is a ritual walking on a pentagram and doing earths movements and and praying for entlightment from the earth and stars), this is where I started to notice that Rudolf Steiners philosphy is about becoming a god, and claim that recardination to earth and working on one self changes the soul after time combining the good and evil teachings equaling them and become a pure soul (arian soul) such as Jesus Christ (which is blasphmey!). I bought a book there (theosophy by Rudolf Steiner, not from blawatsky) after my eyes were open to see the luziferian conspiracy (and noticing that its taking place everywhere, which was frightening)… I was shocked, and it took me a good 2 weeks to fully realize what was going on, it was surreal… I started to see the pentagram, the 3rd eye knowledge, the three snakes everywhere and when my boss then talked to me that I should allow my personal angel, who holds the light to entlighten me and learn from him (which was before I realized this stuff, it was a time when I was searching for the truth) blew my mind away when actually thinking about it! And then when I asked about theosophy they called it the okkult knowledge that is long forgotten and that they go by the good side (wiccans)… even though Rudolf Steiner was the leader of theosophy for 10 years, they find it funny that I know more than the elders… they dont know that I am a hardcore true christian (they say they are christians but logically they are not) Thesosphy is very interesting and I find what madame blawatsky has written very intersting! (I have not read her books yet though)
Why Yes I have read most of them (or read a little about)
Oh could you name me some good books about babylon??
Kabalah, I have some books but I just started (I think its about the different dimentions that supposedly explain the whole universe) with actually getting active with reading (am reading “pawns in the game” right now, which is like the beginners guide about the money lenders and illuminati)
I am missing themla though thanks for listing that!
I have about 1000 ebooks on the topics you have posted… and have read one so far haha I hope I have enough time to read them all
but do you maybe know another book that talks about the earth beings or human form without Lord Gods spirit? or known as giants, reptilains etc? (other than genesis and enoch? non-biblical?)
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ah no truthseer this is in the middle of the topic not on the bottom, I dont think that everyone who postst something otherwise then exposing VC is from VC… you are letting this eat you up too much, and dont worry I am not from VC and really still dont understand what is going on with VC (except that they are deleting posts that talk about them)
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8480
See this thread. A person who told the truth about VC had his posts deleted and then lame allegations were made against them. Oh and me, who hasn’t attempted to log into VC since being banned for being religious (No seriously, I can show a screen shot)
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That subject is off limits due to what it has caused towards the forums. We used to be able to talk all about our suspicions on VC and you know that as you were there for all those things.
Now you have devolved into a troll who seems insecure about homosexuality and a mosquito we constantly have to ban because all you want to do is slander and troll the boards. Get a life man. You used to be a half decent poster, what the fuck happened?
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Tweet, how can anyone even have the slightest shred of respect for you after reading this? Let’s dissect
That subject is off limits due to what it has caused towards the forums. We used to be able to talk all about our suspicions on VC and you know that as you were there for all those things.
No I was on the NEW boards. I lurked on the old boards, never saw a Toby
Now you have devolved into a troll who seems insecure about homosexuality and a mosquito
Homosexuality what? I never mentioned homosexuality here. And I can believe it’s a sin and you won’t stop me
we constantly have to ban because all you want to do is slander and troll the boards
As usual, a lie. Prove one fake account made with the same IP as truthseer, I dare you.
You’ll say proxies, well, I say prove it was me. IT WAS NOT
Get a life man
Says the one who came here to defend VC
You used to be a half decent poster, what the fuck happened?
Betrayal
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And to be honest… couldnt it be that the person who has this blog, is the one who is giving wrong information so people dont look for the truth by VC aswell? (Illuminati agent)
I would like to remind people not to rely on others, again I havent looked up VC myself and what else they do, but the info on VC (so far) has supported the Luziferian fundamentaly with christianity, I think the maker of this site (who is muslim or hindu) doenst like it that VC is christian, but then again I need to look into VC a little more!!!
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You sound like a shill yourself (which is possible), but then again maybe it’s not (which is also possible), but then again I need to think about it a little more!!
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@Ouendan- See the thread I linked. Hexa is the biggest alter ego of VC after Hartwell
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http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/
you the same truthseer as the guy in these comments?
and the one in this thread at the vc forum
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And The Creator seems to be HIndu. VC is a Gnostic Christian. A gnostic Satanic Luciferian
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hey show me that screenshot… this sounds very interesting!
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And what is with Lady Gaga being VC? I am confused with VC now… what are talking about and what is going on haha (this is very amusing)
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Don’t listen to this guy. Probably the biggest VC troll. Search up his name on the boards and see the substance of his posts yourself…
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Yawn. You only banned me once. And then you claim I was banned many times.
Go back to VC
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Hey Ouendan and Tweeterfist,
You guys are really trying hard to twist the discussion away from VC to a religious fight here.
“I think the maker of this site (who is muslim or hindu) doenst like it that VC is christian, but then again I need to look into VC a little more!!!”
First, I’m no muslim and I will never be. To me, a religion that allows itself to suppress 50% of the population (women), treats pedophilia as cultural normality and kills people for their other believe systems ethically is not much higher than satanism itself.
Second, I’m no Hindu as I believe in one God, the Creator of all that is, not in dozens of Semi-Gods (that probably rather are and have been demons or physical extraterrestrials). I do think that the eastern spiritual traditions have kept a lot of true wisdom that has been lost in decades of jewish and christian religious brain-wash in the west (coming from these religions having been in the wrap of the pharisee/occult and mystic secret societies all the time). The concept of immortal souls and Karma is a thousand times more plausible to me than the concept of forgiveness of sins and this simple heaven-and-hell concept that the churches extracted from the bible (and a bible that is thrown together and selected from chosen sources and manipulated in the early days).
If you can sleep better in giving me an label, please call me a follower of the Hare Krishna movement of Srila Prabhubada and a true lover of Jesus Christ. And when I talked about Christ-Consciousness I did not mean that twisted New Age bubbling I just looked up after Tweeterfist’s question, but that I dignify the teachings and the life of Jesus, and not that weird doctrin of salvation and supression of spirituality the churches created afterwards.
I hope some of you can understand my words a little, the way you are throwing around labels instead of knowledge and understanding of the worlds spiritual wisdom leaves me here in some sense of doubtfullness.
Hare Krishna, Chaukee
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This is blasphemy! How can you combine created and fundamentaly flawed religions with words of knowledge ( the truth that cannot, i mean, cannot be broken?) I (as I said earlier) do NOT follow anykind of church as well as anyother manipulated and changed truths about Jesus Christ, you even saying that you accept him as a (important) person shows right away what impact he had back when religion was the way to rule people (every major religion added Jesus Christ the true Lord God to their made up luzifer religions so that people would still come and follow their blaphemy)
You are not a lover of Jesus Christ, if you dont follow the doctorine and change it to your way is changing the Lord God (in flesh) to a lunatic with magical powers!
Yes the church teach junk about heaven and Hell, and the church is made up so that people don follow the truth, the way and the life! I do take offense of people who just mix and match to their own will…
Nope sorry I do not understand how you can Hare Krishna (who is one of the faces of luzifer)
WAIT WAIT… ok, you know my email… explain to me please (I will not hurt you, I want to understand) how you can fundamentaly (with facts and logic) come to the conclusion that you have, really I just want to know, I will NOT kill you or make you feel bad, I just want to undersatnd your assumtions!
And I am sorry for dissrupting the discussion about VC! (But I need to know who the person is who is spreading this info aswell)
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Chauk, I wouldn’t be emailing this Ouendan character if I were you. He sounds like a phoney and like the Real Daciple it looks like he’s trying to dumb down his writing purposefully. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a shill like the others as well. He probably wants to find out where you are posting from. Also, why not just answer here since you obviously have nothing to hide, so the rest of us can also read what you have to say to this crew that is trying to make you look like the questionable one, when obviously you are not.
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Hey Sonny,
Thanks for the advice and sorry for the late approval – just found your comment in the spam folder.
Don’t worry, I do not respond to provocations that go beyond a certain level of decency…
Peace, Chaukee
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Ok, finally I got it, Sonny = Not Your Ordinary Citizen = I am who I am 😉 Quite a lot of alter egos on the same comment thread…
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Discussing VC here is now pointless. Think what you want about him and myself, I could care less because I would have to stretch out my neck to battle these claims and that isn’t happening. Yáll can keep up with the suspicions, I’d rather use my time here on discussing something productive though.
You cannot love Christ if you reject what He has done for us, that being sacrificing himself to pay for the debt your sin has caused. We are given this time in the world to choose to either strive to reclaim what was corrupted or embrace the corruption, that result being an eternal death (Eternal torture is a Catholic/pagan concept and isn’t Biblical). God’s plan is to restore all what was lost, meaning sin is not compatible with this, so He has us understand both sides and make our choice, those consenting to the true and proper way of the universe having a place in it for all eternity, free from sin, as we of the faith pursue in our lives today.
The concept of an immortal soul and achieving gnosis towards God is the exact lie the serpent told Eve. It is the fundamental beliefs of all these secret societies and elite who consider us cannon fodder and it is the beliefs that will be build the NWO spiritually. If you are indeed a Westerner, I highly doubt you would even believe what you do today if it wasn’t for the elite opening up the doors to it, as was said to happen in Crowley’s Book of the Law and Bailey’s Externalization of the Hierarchy. They indeed followed up on those promises they made in the early 1900’s. It is all documented and going to plan, and you unfortunately are falling for it.
I pray that your journey for the truth brings you to it and the true Christ my friend.
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Are you com mparing vc to Christ and sacrifice? Good lord. You are.brainwashed
You say often that vigilant and his site “saved you” .that alone should be enough reason for you to re collaborate your spiritual compass if you are sincere.
Wake up “don’t believe the hype”
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This thread was created on VC questioning who “Mitch Joel,” was…of course, it ends up being locked for unspecified reasons and a couple of people being got permanently banned as a result: http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8484 This forum is pathetic.
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There were also a couple of other threads like this started by users who were getting too curious.
Every single one of them has been locked and deleted so far, but there is one right now that is still going strong at the current moment and let me tell you, the user who started this thread is being very honest and outspoken about the unethical practices that Vigilant Citizen is doing with users on the message boards.
I get the feeling he will be banned soon.
For a supposedly “anti-NWO” website, they sure are quite fascist when it comes to censorship and their “rules”.
It seems the only users that ever stay on their the longest are bored teenagers with nothing better to do with their lives, who pretty much contribute no meaningful information. They just sit around and talk about their favorite “pop stars” or whatever media garbage interest them. If you ever say anything that is considered “negative” about these “pop stars”, these “fans” will start to attack you just because you have seen these “pop stars” for the deceitful illusions that they really are.
A prime example of this would be the Lady Gaga subforums. You don’t DARE say anything negative about Gaga to those kids. They’ll rip you to shreds. Notice how those users get to stay on that site and never get banned, but yet curious users who question what the site’s true intentions could possibly be, get banned in a heartbeat.
I swear the only reason those teenagers are even on their is because of those “pop stars”. Take away the “pop stars” and I’ll bet you a good majority of those kids wouldn’t be on that site to begin with.
To put it mildly, very little differs between Vigilant Citizen and your basic celebrity tabloid sites like TMZ or Perez Hilton.
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Thank you for your response. I have noticed all of those threads being locked and removed as well. I am very glad to know that users are starting to bring up the unethical fascist-like practices of VC and his sycophant moderation crew.
The teenagers on there are very naive and extremely ignorant, but I suppose that’s the type of mind VC prefers to have on his forum as opposed to a mind that seeks to find truths (the fact that a Lady Gaga sub-forum even exists, attests to this). Furthermore, VC himself appears to have the maturity and mindset of a teenager.
“To put it mildly, very little differs between Vigilant Citizen and your basic celebrity tabloid sites like TMZ or Perez Hilton.” I completely agree with you, so much for VC being a place of “enlightenment.”
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Well one of the first comments on this blog above said the past in quotes below.
I’m just going to cut and paste this as none of the words are mine, but I want to point out that after this was posted a whole shit storm blew up here and in the yoy50.wordpress.com site about vigilant citizen. Just saying, something’s up…
“JJ Virgil
These guys own and operate the vigilantcitizen.com
http://www.twistimage.com/en/who-we-are/our-leadership/mickael-kanfi
Mickael Kanfi
and
http://www.twistimage.com/en/who-we-are/our-leadership/mitch-joel
Mitch Joel
They also are responsible for this site, another recruitment site for the GIN.
http://elirook.com/ and
http://jointhenewworldorder.com/index2.php
http://www.youtube.com/elirook
Eli Rook can be found on facebook with thousands of followers too. He used to have a website that had a variety of youtube short vids on it that painted a picture, while selling a $47.00 Ebook which basically explained that the Illuminati/Elite are good people and had to keep things secret because the general populace wasn’t ready for them. Following along in the game, it was a big setup to get recruits for the GIN scam.
Incidentally GIN is a pyramid scam, and the only way you can actively recruit or have an affiliate number is to BE A MEMBER. VC is definitely a member. It’s a $1000.00 a month scam, and part of externalizing the hierarchy of the elite as well.
Joel is an online marketing genius who also owns Distort Entertainment and “produces” music for “underground” or “urban” band in Montreal and Toronto. Mickael lives in Laval where VigilantCitizen runs his operation out of. Henrik Ryosa of illomennation.com is also one of their accomplices who also knows a lot of digitial media and was once working with Joel on Distort Entertainment until realizing separate ideas would pull them in separate directions. Henrik now lives in Sweden and runs a production/media company of his own, but helps to steer people in certain directions with online contributions mainly to VC’s forum.
The two of Joel and Kanfi have enough insider information to concoct the stories on VC, and knowledge between them to get thousands of viewers a day, upwards to 40k. Look at the google ads on that site and realize they’re making major BANK. Enough to justify launching two more copy cat sites
http://knowledgefiles.com/
and
http://secretarcana.com“
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Tell me who you know was banned and for what given reason, and if it was wrongful then I will investigate it personally.
Truthseer above has been creating many false accounts for a bit so this may be who you speak of, though I can check the logs for specific users if you wish.
lol the Gaga subforum is indeed sad, that’s the forbidden zone right there and stands because otherwise the Music section would be flooded with crap on her. The woman is surrounded by a lot of symbolism. To say the whole forum is like this is a far cry however. The Religion section is always filled with insightful debate and I have learned much from it.
I feel all my words are in vain here however but whatever.
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Prove this. You will not be able to. It is a lie. And you know, you banned FP for writing on yoy!s blog
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Hello Twetterfist, one of the users banned immedilately without warning was Mysticshadow, the other being myself (mysticseeker). We were both banned on one occsaion for asking a question about the moderators –a ban that was given without warning and lasted 24hrs. Yesterday, a thread was opened questinoing who VC was, and of course it got closed and deleted, and I, along with Mysticshadow were permanently banned. No obvious violations were made. I was banned for simply starting a thread questioning who VC was. It’s all quite ridiculous and childish to me –both VC and the ban happy moderator “Hartwell.”
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@Twetterfist: Note that conveniently, those threads have all now been removed by the fascist regime. If there is anyway that you can possibly go back and review the deleted threads –then please do. Let me know what violations were made…
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The banned members have already been pointed out. As for the religions section, I try to steer clear of that place because I don’t want to get into heated arguments with people. I am what many Christians would consider a “pagan” (I’m a spiritual person, not religious.), but I mean no harm.
Let’s put all of our religious/spiritual beliefs aside right now, I want to explain everything I know so far about the site, but this might take a couple of comment post.
In case you are wondering, I am one of the users who posted on the Mitch Joel thread. To give you a hint, I was the one who stated that my computer almost crashed when I visited a site connected to Mitch Joel.
io would know who I am.
Sorry for my bitching before, but I’m just becoming frustrated with the site. It’s not the information database I thought it would be, no matter how hard I tried to gather links and images from around the web to prove my point. I feel like I have been tricked. I know I am taking a great risk and might be considered a traitor, but I really don’t care at the moment. Something’s got to give with the message boards.
It’s getting too obvious as to who I am right now, so I’m going to stop here.
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@No One In Particular, I’m glad to see you here! I was concerned I wouldn’t be able to get in touch with you again after that incident. It’s also great to see that you are still questioning and searching.
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Sorry for that. Anyways VC is disinformation. I have been warned for asking who VC is. Banned for asking if Dat Simple was right.
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Accepted 😉
Awesome statement of yours:
“For a supposedly “anti-NWO” website, they sure are quite fascist when it comes to censorship and their “rules”
At least at my blog, nobody gets censored, even for the most brainless comment. If people want to compromise themselves, so be it. Unless its racist or violently offending or commercial spam I don’t censor. Freedom of speach and thought includes the tolerance towards other opinions.
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I too got a permanent ban from VC for participation in the thread and possibly for questioning the bannings. The moderator “Hartwell” is the worst for that. But they all have problems and huge egos.
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That wasn’t mine. It was someone else. Anyways, another member Femalepharoe got banned. She was a real theorist with sound facts and generally logical explanations. Why was she banned? Did you know she had received no warnings? She was banned for asking about V.C
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Complete lie, and I can prove it. She said she’d leave on her own accord, though she has posted since, and that post can be found here.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8168&p=173430#p173430
Anyone can check on her and see she is not banned if they so choose.
I find it hilarious that this topic of disinformation has been completely ravaged by disinfo. Very ironic.
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Tweet, you are behinf the.times. She got permanently banned. Go to DIsinfo Citizen, today fightingmonk. One comment, deleted. FP is banned, she wrote an essay on that. I shall mail her anf ask her to clear this.here
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Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,
Tweet , if you are not a disinfo agent you are incredibly naïve. And though this is…endearing and cute, it is incredibly dangerous for you to be so willfully blind as to pledge allegiance to the multiply recorded suspicious activities of a site that is supposed to promote truth and knowledge.
The one known as “Hexa” started to target and attack me through a series of attempts of embarrassment (they did not have his intended effects). The one you linked, shows Hexa (which is what he did twice) quoting me and warned to a warning of “inciting emotions” yet then turned around and admitted that he did NOT read the full thread, did NOT know who I was responding to, and did NOT know what I was talking about. He then had to apologize twice for being such a poor moderator (we know why). He stated that I was “inciting emotion” – literally this was his beef.
The one known as Hexa – the house slave- had posted a response on the “yoy50” site in an attempt to 1: discredit VC questioners as everyone was to “laugh at them” (that means you guys) and 2: draw out possible defectors and questioners.
Once I read through the knowledge on the yoy50 site, it reminded me of a time where I was attempting to post as a reference, a site that was an illuminati data bank. It has no author and is literally just a bunch of articles from published people and pictures. For some reason my article would not post. It was only until I broke down the article bit by bit to identify what the filter was kicking out that I realized it was the link for the site as I had an image from it.
Now you may ask yourself WHY would a truther site that supposedly promotes a fluidity of conversation want to appear as the only authority on illuminati knowledge??
I sent an email inquiring about why I could not post to the site. (per your “ask him, he’s a nice guy”) and I only received a snarky retort saying do not “accuse them” of censorship. He did not explain as to how/why the site was filtered. You draw your own conclusions.
I then posted a response on the yoy50 site. Later I made a farewell telling everyone to be “careful”, I did NOT disclose my findings. I did NOT post any defamatory comments. THAT was in fact the last post I made before being bannedd. The one Hexa – the house slave – locked it and deleted it within minutes. I was then banned after having no warnings. (The only reason I knew was bc I got a message and attempted to check it but the big permanently banned would not.allow it) Essentially I was banned for making a comment about VC not even ON HIS SITE!
Do you know what that means? They, being marketing geniuses, are scouring the internet for who is talking about them and banning or erasing the people who they believe to be “mutinous”. Is this not Stalin techniques of erasing people are of the picture? In short the people who are “crazy Christians” are allowed to speak about people going to hell , muslim pedos, gays etc and their posts are still up for the viewing public. Yet , time and again, a “normal” Christian can state “ I have faith that we will make it” and get warned for speaking about religion. There’s a reason.
There’s a reason why so many hostile trolls are allowed to stay yet people who are contributing to the boards are targeted. There is a reason that the children in the “gaga sub forum” go unchecked. There is a reason a solid post can have 100 views yet it is not until a few people actually start talking about the issue that a gaggle of trolls comes in out of no where to distract.
It is a means to keep the people visiting distracted and confused! All of these sites may be intertwined, but I just wanted to speak on the absurdity of the gentlemen claiming that conspiracy theorist are “depressed” and “paranoid” : talk about hypocritical.
He claims that people who are trying to identify when someone is lying to them are crazy , while at the same time admitting to manufacturing an elaborate scheme through lying to them.
HA!
I do not believe that the infamous “toby” existed. The VC site is housing some dangerous secrets and I believe that this character – like so many of the regular posters on VC- was created in an attempt to draw out those who may pose a problem. The unfounded attacks and ban of myself will (and has) served as a big question mark towards these recent tactics as my posts and persona speaks for themselves. Also , I just want to warn any of the disinfo paid shills that may try to imposter me (as all of this craziness is usually associated with the site ensues con artist) ; that unless you have the charisma, pan-africanist knowledge in regards to the agenda, feminine righteousness, and over all style – do NOT embarrass yourself. It will be obvious…ya know?
Happy Holidays,. FP
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Hey dear femalepharoe,
Welcome and thanks very much for another statement of reason, truthfulness and positivity! It really helps myself to not lose my faith in mankind too much when I read such texts as yours!
Especially after those other comments from uneducated kids that see the worlds spiritual traditions only from their fundamentalist (and sorry to say: “christian”) religious brainwash and some conspiracy theories about secret societies. There have always been other, good forces in the history of mankind, but they are so convinced of the omnipotence of the “Illuminati” & Co. that I must say VC and all the other pseudo-debunkers succeeded…
“Yet , time and again, a “normal” Christian can state “ I have faith that we will make it” and get warned for speaking about religion. There’s a reason.”
You are so right, the evidence is here and numerous and for everybody to see. Life always will find a way to teach us what we tend to ignore, with more or less suffering.
Namaste, Chaukee
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Her banning never made any sense to me. A lot of her post were quite informative with “Illuminati Theft pt 2: Madonna , Beyonce Prototypes” being one of her best thread, which I heavily contributed to.
Sorry to hear about your banning, truthseer. I get the feeling I’m going to get banned next for treason, but these forums call for a reformation.
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Female, I am true when I say that your banning escaped me. I assumed you simply left after making that post because I really didn’t see much more out of you after that, though I also wasn’t on the site as much this past week due to the lovely stresses of life.
Laya has made a thread pertaining to you coming on an alt and making a post with regards to this and Hexa. I just saw it not long ago actually.
I ensure you I’ll look more into this. While we didn’t agree with everything (Males and females and whatnot =p), you indeed were a good addition to the forums and I was disheartened to see you go the way you did. This concerns me even more however.
I’ll bring up a thread in the mod lounge and look into it. I’ve gotta get some sleep for work though so I’ll do this tomorrow morning. Please send me an email at lseibert81@hotmail.com so we can keep in touch.
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Also didn’t mean to call you Female, should have said FP lol. My apologies, wasn’t thinking come that.
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Okay I think all of you are ready for this.
By now I’m pretty sure that you are all aware that I am Ayaka from VC.
What to know what started to get me suspcious about the site and the heavy censorship?
About a month ago I tried to make a post in a thread called “Top ten violence-inducing prescription drugs”. I noticed that a couple of the drugs on the list (Luvox, along with various types on amphetamines) I have taken over the years and have made me a primal aggresive beast. It seem that these drugs will break you down to the most primitive instinct of the human mind. Possibly to give the elite better control over the users. I have made a post in the past about my problems with SSRIs, but in this post I wanted to get into way more detail. This time I was going to explain how it causes triggers in our minds that make us extremely sucidal. I remember it was about three paragraphs long.
When I tried to submit it, I was quickly redirected to the main site. I figured it might have had something to do with the site’s word filter, so I changed some of the wording around and tried to resubmit it about three times. Well guess what, on the third and final time I tried to resubmit it the connection became much slower and eventually there was no connection at all. I was blocked from going into the site. Everytime I kept trying to go in the site, the connection went nowhere. This happened for about two days.
Remember the post I did about VC being blocked from my laptop? Well, this is it. I even contacted the moderators so they could fix it and I swear it felt like it took forever for them to reply (Gee, I wonder why?) As for the thing about borrowing a another computer, I will admit I made that part up to disguse the fact that I was using a proxy to get back into the message boards. I was afraid that if I told everyone that I was using a proxy, the moderator would even try to diasable my connection there, too. Let’s just say that this is when the shit hit the fan with me. I figured that this site just had to be censored. It seems that there is a limit to what you can say on that site. If you go too far into the information, you will only be put up with by for so long and will be eventually banned. I learned that giving out deeper information about the elite and their agenda is an easy ticket to get banned. You will also get ridiculed by many of the users, too. This has happened to me a lot on there when I tried to point some things out.
Here are some lovely examples on how they like to slander us:
Congress voted “Pizza” is a vegetable: No Joke:
In this thread I tried to point out how a tomato is actually a fruit and not a vegatable.
Want to know what my reply was from RIRIsG4L, ” Wow…you care waaaay too much about tomatoes.” I remember nola and Raelyn tried to talk some sense into this moron, but it didn’t work. RIRIsG4L has got to be one of the most useless users on that site. Doesn’t even believe that the elite even exist and just keeps posting those stupid “U MAD” images with the troll face. Memes. Aside from “How People View Me”, a good majority of those memes are more annoying than funny or amusing.
Jay z taught in Schools (http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8097&hilit=jay+z+taught+in+schools):
I got a lot of people attacking me on this one just for saying that schools should focus on more important matters than mindless “pop culture” (and you wonder why society is so fucked up these days), which they never do because schools are nothing but places to get children conditioned for the Hive Mind starting as early as possible.
I once even posted a quote from John D. Rockerfeller where he adimited true intentions behind the so-called “educational system”, which is a real quote. However some user named “aaayitselle” (with what else but a Lady Gaga avatar) came along and decided to make me look like a fool.
Here’s the quote I used:
“I don’t want a nation of thinkers. I want a nation of workers.” – John D. Rockefeller (Founder of the National Education Association)
aaayitselle’s reply:
“http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller
“I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers.
Attributed by Jim Marrs in the William Lewis film One Nation Under Siege (2008); no published occurrence of this has been located prior to The Trillion-Dollar Conspiracy : How the New World Order, Man-Made Diseases, and Zombie Banks Are Destroying America (2010) by Jim Marrs”
It is a disputed quote. I googled it and it only appeared on conspiracy theory sites, so I don’t believe that he said that.
“I know of nothing more despicable and pathetic than a man who devotes all the hours of the waking day to the making of money for money’s sake.
Random Reminiscences of Men and Events (1906)”
Notice how this person instantly trys to cover it up just to make the Rockerfellers look good.
I then looked in this person’s post history and noticed that she pissed anme1984 (now known as Astral Gemini_1984) off by posting a link from “United With Israel” by trying to make the country look great by presenting their “latest scientifc breakthroughs”. After reading this, it was pretty obvious that “aaayitselle” is a Zionist disinfo agent. Speaking of disinfo agents, I find it hilarious how Henrik once called me that when I first joined the site. “Disinfo agent”, along with “ignorant” and “lier” are common words that a lot of the users on their like to call anyone who gives way too much detailed information. It’s like heaven forbid, you happened to say something negative about some “pop star” or celebrity. Everyone wants to hang you for even saying such a thing. If anything the site is more of a celebrity gossip/fangirl site than a site with actual information. I swear the Lady Gaga subfourms feel more suitable for a Lady Gaga fansite.
and please don’t get me started on VC Tinychat. I used to go in their from time to time, but had to leave because a good majority of the conversations were about sex and pornography (Which even caused Ambroise to leave there, but who could blame her. Smart girl!) Seriously, does any of that have to do with “conspiracy theories”? For me, nothing interesting ever happened there. Just Hartwell giving me creepy stares and Shannon Darko flashing her tits to the camera. Although, Layaamani (who I have to admit was a sweet girl) and I had some very interesting conversations, but that was all done thanks to Tinychat’s private messaging feature.
Also, notice how people that should have been banned a long time ago get to stay on that site. The obsessive Lady Gaga fans (HausOfHerpes, bustos92) are the biggest examples of this. Even people like Shannon “Miss Flash My Tits To The Camera” Darko get to stay. I for the life of me could never figure out how she ended up on what is supposed to be a “conspiracy theory” website. Users like her (kids that just like to sit around and talk about movies and memes) are more out of place on there if anything. This makes the site even more fishy.
To sum it up more easily:
Information givers = banned
fangirls/meme kids = not banned
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Thanks you for that post Ayaka, I couldn’t agree more!
“To sum it up more easily:
Information givers = banned
fangirls/meme kids = not banned”
That’s a very accurate summary of how the forum actually operates. In regards to the rampant sex/pornographic content on VC– I reported some pornographic images in a couple of posts before, but my reports were simply closed and when I sent a message to the admins inquiring about it, I was ignored. I’m not surprised that some foolish MTV-following kids were flashing their bare chests in the chatroom either, nevertheless, I find it disgusting.
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I’m glad you’re here, mysticseeker. It’s a shame you got banned, though because I should have PMed you my e-mail and we could have talked about this in more detail with Tweeter trying to discredit me. Trust me, there’s more where that came from.
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I think the Rihanna Fingerbanging thread is living proof of the mindset of site.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5569&hilit=rihanna+fingerbanging
What does this have to do with ANYTHING?
IgnotumArcanus’s opinion on that thread is just pure genius:
“Fuck the fingerlings, why would you write a damn thread about Rihanna fingerbanging!?”
I miss that guy, it’s a shame he left. I wonder why?
Also, I swear there are about over 30-50 threads on that site that are about sex and center on the users bragging about their sex lives, not counting the ones Social and Off Topic section.
I DON’T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR FUCKING SEX LIFE, PEOPLE! IF I WANTED TO DO THAT I WOULD HAVE WENT ELSEWHERE!
Do you know any good message boards you could recommend that specialize in the subject matter of the elite, without all the celebrity worship and sex life bragging? It’s getting pathetic.
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Ayaka, how in any way, shape, or form am I trying to discredit you? I have no qualms against you. I actually helped ensure that AdamMadison was permanently banned from the site for his actions against you (As well as others), but mainly you because I sympathized. I extended my heart out to you out of love concerning your issues as well… I’ve got no problem with you.
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And Ayaka, and all you who are complaining about sex-related topics, that shit only is prevalent in Social and Off Topic, and maybe Music, where all the little girls and people who don’t seem to give to shits on learning go.
If you guys actually stepped out from there, got more into General, News, Theories, Religion, and Spirituality, you would see the levels of maturity and substantial content go up and there’s plenty of good discussion to be had. Those all are, of course, the most important aspects of the site forums there…
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But Tweet, there is a lot of sex related threads in the general section. One of the most popular threads on there recently was “What Do You Think Of Easy Sex”. Kat is always bringing these threads up for some crazy ass reason and normally in the General section. Although, I will admit that the Mind Control section is a huge improvement and I’m thanking VC here on that one.
Also Tweet, I’m not a Christian. I refuse to go in the Religions section for fear that everyone is going to scream the usual “You’re a Pagan witch that will burn in the embers of Hell.” at me. All I ever see in that section is Christians and Muslims fighting. It’s boring.
I don’t like fights, okay. I used to hear arguments between my mom and dad just about everyday when I was a teen and normally over the most pointless trival matters like “Who placed the milk jug in the back of the refrigerator?”. It was hell.
Fuck, I don’t even know what to think anymore these days. I’m having one hell of a time distingushing what’s the truth and who is lying. Every site that specializes in the subject of the elite and their agenda is always yelling “disinfo” at each other (This site considers VC disnfo. VC considers this site disinfo. You get the idea.). Because I don’t know who to believe, I just go into every site I come across and read every book I get my hands on.
Reading everything and questioning everything, that’s what I do.
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You should be careful mentioning medication. You never know who will abuse this kind of information against you to hurt you.
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None of what you said really gives credence to VC being disinformation… those problems you faced with connection are ones I have gotten before from members. Do not look into this especially over such trivial content. I mean, I can imagine if you were posting something a bit more revealing or deep than what you did (Not saying what you didn’t was, you know what I mean though) then that could raise an eyebrow, but I wouldn’t look into that and jump to conclusions.
The rest of your comments are simply about some VC users, and I whole heartily agree. There are certain members there who seem purely there to chat and giggle or drool over Gaga, and while I find these things disgusting, esspecialy on such a site, they aint breaking any rules per se. If one is constantly trolling then you are to report them and we will deal with it, we cannot be everywhere at once.
Your summary is grossly exaggerated as well. The biggest ”information givers” all remain on that site, if they haven’t left to their own accord.
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Tweet,
Like the janitor two hours too late, the regurgitated vodka has already permeated the air.
You are not in your comfort zone. And while you have every right to defend your boy (as you should if that’s where your heart is) , DO NOT come on here and pander to the viewing public by invalidating serious questions that YOU yourself asked. I will not allow it.
You are talking to reasonable, mostly intelligent, seekers of knowledge who are skilled in the art of communication.
It is a poor defense strategy to call a character witness on stand and disregard all of the useful information in order to recall which socks they where wearing on the night of the murder. .. there are so many concerns here and only a few have regarded the trolls on the subforum. Do not play with us.
So here let me help:
dis·in·for·ma·tion/disˌinfərˈmāSHən/
Noun:
False information that is intended to mislead,
1. It is safe to say that the articles on the sight are extremely well researched and thus, contributes to its popularity. The main site promotes people to “check out the boards”, seemingly so they too can contribute.
question:
If the filter is only to keep out spam, offensive language, and words that are “drugs” why are so many users attesting all over the internet that the filter kick out other references to sites. Perhaps even included and referenced in his works. Some even state that they have posted helpful links only to have their comments REMOVED. Why is vigilant removing info from other sites that contribute to seeking knowledge that he promotes ie. “educate yourself”?
Is it disifo to claim non censorship and then censor information on a knowledge seeking sight?
2. The site, with the help of the trusty mods, profess that threads intended to penetrate the man behind the curtain is unnecessary. We can simply email the administration and someone, or he, will answer our question. Yet , this is untrue. Many people have testified that answers to questions have gone ignored.
Is it a lie to claim that it is not “needed” to probe the teacher? That he is “there for us” when experiences proves he is not? What are your thoughts?
3. There was once a rather fiery poster, who was banned time and time again for offensive and inflammatory language. He was always brought back even after several public warning from vigilant (my particular favorite was when he called the n-ers and the white tr*ash crack addicts- he was allowed to rant for 4-5 more pages). Yet , all over the internet it is attested that he bans reasonable contributors to the site at a moments notice subjectively for asking simple questions.
Is it disinfo to claim transparency regarding forum decorum for banning but it is subjective? Wouldn’t it be more accurate to state in the “rules of the board” : ” If i do not like what you are saying , you may be banned” ? (or in my case, like what you are saying on ANOTHER site)
4. You are a liar/disinfo agent as you claimed to the public that I was not banned , yet knew I was. If you are not a liar, why are you so out of the loop? And how can someone get banned for not abiding by forum rules while NOT on the forum?
5. the ‘ol “it is his site and he is doing us a service” is not completely accurate. He provides a service, we provide counts and posts that convert as dollars in advertising the pocket. There are no freebies. Many of the banned individuals (like myself) are still getting comments on their threads!
Is it ethically / morally sound to ban individuals at the moments notice and not even allow them to delete their accounts? Tricking the viewing public as if the writers are still contributing members? Could it not at least say “banned” below the avatar and not simply “off line”. We have not just went out to lunch.
*In summation, the disinfo shills/sad sheeple are very tricky or lobotomized. They pander like politicians and gulp from the cup of generalizations. Let us see if this well informed professor of our ignorance can answer these very detailed questions. Shall we?
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Banning members is trivial, I guess?
What an amazing idea
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No answer to this well articulated post by FP yet Tweeterfist?
Where art thou Tweeter?
Busy cleaning up the racism, pornography, shots at the disadvantaged, drug promotion and other satanic messages on your facebook page are ye?
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“Even people like Shannon “Miss Flash My Tits To The Camera” Darko get to stay. I for the life of me could never figure out how she ended up on what is supposed to be a “conspiracy theory” website. Users like her (kids that just like to sit around and talk about movies and memes) are more out of place on there if anything.”
Ayaka its funny because you are a new member to this site,back on the old forums, I strongly contributed to the site. All of my posts besides Social were always conducted in a smart and helpful manner. Then the site shut down and i was all upset, oh poor me! So damn sad. Then I kinda realized it’s just the internet. I think you need a reality check.
Also, it’s my body. I can do as i please with it.
Well, i’m done with you ayaka. Hopefully you found another board to poison and bitch on, about how you have no life. I’m glad Kat gave you a piece of her mind.
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Two remarks. First; Ayaka is not a new member but has been around longer than many would suspect. Second; Damn I missed the flashing of tits 😦
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Well, i’m done with you ayaka. Hopefully you found another board to poison and bitch on, about how you have no life. I’m glad Kat gave you a piece of her mind.
For someone who has a life, you sure spend a lot of time on VC
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The above comment I was quoting what Shannon said and then I’m adding this
For someone who has a life, you sure spend a lot of time on VC
I do not subscribe to the views above that which are SHannon’s and filled with hate
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I forgot to add this before, but this adds even more further evidence that VC is not what it seems:
Another thing happened when I went into Mitch Joel’s official website and saw that his biography on there mentioned this:
“He co-launched Distort Entertainment, the only hard music label in Canada to have major label distribution (Universal Music) and whose roster features the platinum-plus, Juno Award and MuchMusic Video Award-winning acts, Alexisonfire and City And Colour.”
http://www.twistimage.com/about-mitch/
This made me even more curious and decided to go to Distort Entertainment’s official website. When I arrived there, I was quickly redirected to a video called “Top 10 Celebrity Sex Scandals” on some video site. Can you believe that this site gave my laptop a virus that almost crashed it (I’m very thankful for antivirus software for saving me on that one.) This has risen even more suspicion.
There’s something wrong here when you see things like that start to happen.
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Freaky. I’d stay away from their sites, and by them I mean all of these characters involved. Obviously something sinister is up. I’m not sure I’ll even go back to the VC forums anymore.
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Chauk, don’t be fooled into censoring information about Tweeterfist. Do the math. He says he hardly knows VC, then he defends him. He’s part of the censorship that goes on there. Someone else asked a question about VC, users are being banned. It’s what happened the first go around. He’s here to do damage control. Look at his facebook profile, he’s a fake Christian. He promotes racism, mocks physical and mentally handicapped people, promotes drugs, promiscuity and pornography. He’s part of the problem. Don’t censor information about him, or you are unknowingly part of the problem itself.
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Tweeterfist is not to be trusted anyway. See the link in my name for why. On his facebook page he openly and blatantly promotes racism, pornography, making and poking fun of mentally handicapped and serious illness, pedophilia, and more. He’ll say that he put those garbage pics up when he was a Layvay Satanist but my suspicions are that the tiger can’t change his stripes. He’s a fake Christian who’s definitely part of the VC clan of roping victims in and then bombarding them with Satanic messages. You’ll notice most of the pictures in Tweeterfists albums are supposed to be funny. By making light of these serious issues, people are desensitized to how despicable and evil they really are. Tweeterfist and his posse are definitely part of the problem.
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Should have known throwing out my e-mail as a good gesture would just bite me in my ass, just as those forgotten galleries have. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I’ll delete them now that I remember of their existence. Those are indeed from my past, when I had a different flavour of taste and wasn’t brought to the light.
I find it sad you grab at this though considering my main picture is a Biblical quote, and I have more recent ones that are Christian related as well. All my notes are around Christian related topics, for the most part too, so faarrrrrtttt there goes all that.
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There goes all what?
Do you really take us all for fools? You’re here taking the fall for your boy Vig while admitting that you don’t know him? You sorry sorry fall guy, lap dog, shill!!
This is some sort of flimsy deflection for you posing as a Christian while being a ravenous wolf in sheep’s clothing.
“Hey Yall just ignore the porn, dugs, racism and all that other debauched stuff…I’m really a Christian, oh and yeah this is what Christ thinks of you….”
BUSTED!
Hows your “recreational” drug use going, because that’s obviously not un biblical according to your version of Christianity, right?
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FOR ALL WHO ARE CONCERNED.
I have brought these thoughts towards VC himself and he has created a thread in order to discuss all this personally on the Social and Off Topic section of the boards. All of you are free to view the discussion, as well as join if you have any questions or concerns to add, though I request that you keep it civil and don’t resort to pure slandering and finger pointing. That’s not a real discussion.
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My cease and desist notice (Posted below) Does not agree. Oh and please mention to dear VC that a cease and desist notice is not arguable in a court of law in either Canada or Pakistan
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Lolwut? You pissed him off that bad lol? Superb work in trolling. More sloppy and persistent than anything but now I am sure you can live the rest of your life complete, with a nice little house under the bridge. Maybe bring the Red Hot Chili Peppers along. Invite me over sometime, we’ll laugh and be hateful towards homosexuals together and have a jolly old time.
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See you’d have banned me for that. Guess it’s ok for you to troll
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CONCERNING IO (Mysticshadow) and Mysticseeker,
By joining the forums, and immediately posting something like that, I am sure the mod team thought you were just another alt of certain people who have been doing that as of late, or possibilities of certain trolls/spammers that have been banned recently. The fact your two names are so similar doesn’t help with this either.
I hope you understand that jumping on a site as so can be misleading to the mod team. Normally users don’t just come up in the site like that.
I will unban both accounts and you will be free to post. You will also be free to voice your concerns in the thread VC has made concerning the allegations towards him being disinformation.
Apologies on behalf of the mod team. We get a lot of bullshit and drama around these forums. Lots of little kids saddly, but they stick to their parts and I and the big boys stick to ours lol…
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Yay, here comes the damage control. I wonder how many alts are going to post in that thread?
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Actually it is best you both simply make new accounts as the reasons towards your banning are justified with the TOS. Mod decisions are to be discussed privately and the display with which you pursued this (From what it looks like in the logs) show you had no contempt for this.
I would HOPE Hart let you guys know what you were doing wrong here so you guys actually had a clue, but let me know if he didn’t, and let me know if your IP is banned.
If you guys are looking for sincere discussion then you will go there for it. If all you were doing is trying to test the waters however, don’t waste my time of me trying to do yáll a favour.
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I will not log on. I believe I am still banned. But even if not I’m sure that the comment would be deleted. But as you attributed those two things to simply “name confusion” perhaps you can answer how I was banned for commenting about the site on ANOTHER site. You can not claim to any behavior on the boards as again, i have never been warned.
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I was around on the forums for months ,(since around March), before I finally decided to post “something like that.” I did not immediately join and start posting my feelings of dismay over the forums. The moderators should have done a thorough investigation rather than just automatically assume that a poster is someone or something else and then immediately jump on the ban-happy wagon. As for similar user names, there are a few users with “mystic” in their names and similar thinking people may end up with similar user names…
I did not violate anything in my permanent banning at all, I didn’t think I violated anything in my 24hr ban either and I wasn’t told I was stepping out of line.(I also still have a copy of exactly what I stated as well in that post, and I’ve also seen other posters share similar sentiments yet oddly enough, their posts weren’t considered violations of the TOS –so I don’t know how the moderators arrive at their decision regarding who or who not to ban for a “violation.” I also wasn’t warned ONCE in either incident. Also, when I questioned the bans via the admin contact, I’ve received no response from any of you. I did however received a response from VC after a couple of attempts, but his response was only a few of words that did not even address the situation. I’ve responded back very politely and respectfully, but received disinterested replies consisting of a few words –his character is questionable if you ask me.
It’s interesting that VC agreed to start a post addressing the allegations against him –You’d think that he would’ve considered that before sanctioning the locking and deleting of posts and the permanent banning of anyone who dares ask those questions.
While I appreciate your attempted effort in unbanning my account, I don’t know how I’d feel about posting on that forum–I’m not exactly welcomed there with warm-embracing open arms. I’d have to feel extremely compelled to post on there again. I find it quite offensive that you’d think I’d go on there to “test the waters” –that’s not who I am. I don’t know why I’d want to continue to be a part of this…
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*Correction: I registered on June 23, 2011. I was not a frequent poster as I’m more of a quiet lurker who doesn’t post unless compelled to. Regardless, I was a contributor to the forum and not a “troll” who one day decided to register for the sole purpose of posting a disruptive message.
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As hilarious as ever, Tweet
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This is absurd, every thread you guys post here has this Toby characters name in it, yet like Montag pointed out he’s nowhere to be seen in the member list.
I was banned a few months ago for no real reason that I could discern after posting a few threads about my views of Christianity. First a troll appeared and started taking all of it out of context and baited me into a flame war which I tried to diffuse. Then Tweeterfist and his gang started accusing me of Gnosticism, which seems to be their only tact to silence anyone who dares pose an alternative view.
I was later banned with the reason “you aren’t fooling anyone”, and later in the same thread Tweeterfist, Daciple and one known as Chainmaker all alluded to me being this “Toby” character?!?
I don’t even know who “Toby” is but I was accused of being him. It’s almost as if they’ve created this persona, maybe even just to be used as a boogey man to get rid of anyone who is trying to shed some light on what is happening around us. Because I was banned and accused of being this person, and what is currently happening here and on the yoy50 site, I’m starting to believe what users like JJ Virgil and Justin Time and the original Daciple amongst others are saying is true.
Tweeterfist keeps accusing all these Jones people of being Toby because they claim to be the group that invented him, and then this fascist pretend Christian moderator Tweeterfist has the audacity to talk about evidence?
You just believe them because of what evidence actually? Just because they said it? HAHA, great evidence!! They could easily be toying with you, or working with you and VC for all anyone know’s.
Anyone who seems to present a different message from what you believe to be true on the VC website is accused of being this infamous Toby by you and your crew. How is that? What evidence do you have? What evidence do we have that this character ever existed? He’s likely just a boogey man of your own making.
Tweeterfist, please give your head a shake. You call Chauk our for having flimsy evidence on Vigilant Citizen but are about to take the words of some blog comments who claim to be this invisible Toby guy that caused all this trouble on the Vigilant Citizen’s website?
Either you’re a shill for Vigilant Citizen and this is just a big smoke screen, or you’re stupid.
Why?
Because for one you say there is no evidence to prove that Vigilant isn’t spreading disinformation, when dozens upon dozens of websites are saying he does and give very reasonable accounts of him doing so and suppressing information.
Then say you have doubts about him, don’t know him but you’re a moderator of his website.
Do you see the problems with those statements? One, if you don’t know him then you can’t really defend him. Second, if you have doubts about him then you can’t really defend him. Third, you’re a moderator of his site so you obviously have some contact with him. Lastly if you openly admit that you doubt him, but you are defending him you’re as dumb as dumb can be.
What’s even funnier is that after some dude, probably the same one at yoy50’s site and here identified him, you and this real daciple guy show up to blame some anonymous Toby character that no one knows even exists? hahahahahahahah!!!!!
Then the only thing that we can all be assured of is that you have some hell bent need to claim anyone who doesn’t agree with you is Toby. Both you and one of the Daciples, real or not, do the same thing, so there is at least enough reason to believe you’re all in cahoots, correct?
So, you have no evidence on any of those counts but it doesn’t stop you from making those claims, which makes you look like a fool for questioning Chauk on what you call
“More flimsy reasoning from a soft conspiracy-muddled mind.”
LOLWUT?! You’re calling him a soft conspiracy-muddled mind, when you go around calling yourself a Conspiracy Analyst?
Are you hoping to get hired by Merrill Lynch’s conspiracy division as their top analyst? lol
This is especially funny since you like to throw around the word evidence like a sword.
In the post at the alient scientist forum (for some reason I can’t hyperlink urls in this site)Tweeterfist announces that the world is only 10,000 years old and that carbon dating has “holes in it”? LOLOLOLOL!!!
Best part about that is that it is made in a forum called Alien Scientists, because you know they’re certainly better than the fake Science we have now, hahahahaha.
You seem flimsy in your own reasoning in your own right, but I guess someone who has done as much drugs as your facebook wall and pictures seem to suggest would probably act that way.
And before you call me Toby again, or anyone else, all I know about you was ascertained by a simple google search on Tweeterfist.
Shake your head…really hard…and wake up!
Whoever it is is playing games with you, or you’re one of the people playing games.
Oh, you also say and claim to be a Christian. When someone google’s your Tweeterfist name they find your youtube page. As I looked through your favorite list and WOW man you have some sick and perverted tastes in music. No wonder you come across so messed up.
If that wasn’t bad enough, anyone looking through your facebook profile (linked in my name) and the album called
shit I feel an album for
will find all kinds of really disgusting and questionable tastes in humor from you making fun of mentally handicapped people, to making overt racist remarks, to promoting a very negative view of Christianity, to pornography and homosexual overtones as well as making some very questionable comments on serious illness as if it is funny that some people suffer from diseases such as Aids.
I’m sure you’ll take all that down now that the cat is out of the bag, but at least I’ve seen it for my own eyes and know you for the fake, disinformation fool and shill that you are yourself.
Here’s a really wise saying that you should think hard about
Silence is foolish if we are wise, but wise if we are foolish. –Charles Caleb Colton
You should just shut up while you’re ahead because anyone going through those links will figure out what sort of Christian you are, and that you have no business trying to preach to anyone else you massive joke!
The mistakes of the fool are known to the world, but not to himself. The mistakes of the wise man are known to himself, but not to the world.
–Charles Caleb Colton
The last question I leave you with is, do you know the mistake you are making by supporting that man, or men, or are you ignorant of it?
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Ooh you got me good all over, def put some effort into that one. Sad I won’t make that par with my response, because your whole argument here is a balloon of hot air.
1) If Toby was created to be used to silence those who don’t share my views, there would be a hell of a lot more people thrown out right there. You aint a special unique snowflake, whoever you were. Wild Bill maybe.
2) I base the supposed Toby team as authentic because in their posts they said things that only the higher circle, so to speak, of Truth Files (The site Toby, myself, and a few others created) would know. There is evidence towards him being true, whereas this article here is a joke, to be frank. Let’s see.
– Supposed GIN logo that isn’t there anymore
– Charges 10 bucks for his collected work
– History of people complaining their posts were deleted, though of no specific nature to be seen connected with this
WELL, that’s a strong case right there. Guess it’s okay to title my article and conclude that VC is indeed controlled opposition. /facepalm
3) One, I don’t know him, but that doesn’t mean I won’t call out bogus disinformation slandering and faulty logic when I see it.
Second, I have reserved doubts about him, doesn’t mean I just go off this and accept him as disinfo. Is this how your brain really works? ”IRAN MAKE NUCLEAR ENERGY, SO IRAN IS BAD, SO ISLAM IS BAD, SO WE NUKE THEM.” That’s how you sound.
Third, I was chosen as a moderator because I was a long time and decent poster. Again, ”YOU WORK AT FED RESERVE? YOU EVIL ZIONIST SCUM. KILL.”
4) Yeah, I like dubstep and heavy European rave and underground rap and all assortment of filthy music that your cliche Christian wouldn’t like. Your point? Such weak ass points.
5) Forgot about that gallery, as I said. Don’t find that shit funny anymore, not the really crude stuff. Again, plenty of Christian related stuff of more recent date there that can show you who I am today. Bzzz another one gone.
You have shown that you will bend evidence to fit the means of truth you wish. Such a horrible attribute to a truther, you should be ashamed. Carries off into other aspects of your life, I am sure.
Have fun wankin to my pics bra, God bless.
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Tweeterfist “Ooh you got me good all over, def put some effort into that one. Sad I won’t make that par with my response, because your whole argument here is a balloon of hot air.”
Effort into what Logan? What?
I just googled Tweeterfist and learned a lot about you, like that you consider yourself a CONSPIRACY ANALYST
That your facebook page has racist pictures,
promotes drugs,
Problem is that maybe your reasoning has holes in it because your brain has holes in it from all the drugs you’ve done. Maybe that’s why you’re so easily led by others and take on all that false praise and are such a lap dog?
porn and other degenerate things like making fun of handicapped individuals?
That your youtube page promotes satanic music?
But you’re a good kid right? Just a little misled. You can do all that bad stuff because you’re saved by the blood of Christ which allows you to do all that negative stuff while preaching to others.
You created a site? LOL, but are a moderator on Vigilant Citizen. Sure, what else have you got to tell us?
Tweeterfist “3) One, I don’t know him, but that doesn’t mean I won’t call out bogus disinformation slandering and faulty logic when I see”
You just don’t get it do you, you idiot? You’re slandering people all over the place on a whim, even on here. It’s clear as day for anyone else watching. You’re doing this without a shred of evidence, but you come here protecting Vigilant Citizen when dozens of people have reason to believe he has no good motives. You even say yourself you don’t trust his motives, but are partying at his site because you’re a bid bad and and important moderator? I’m sure you feel a big responsibility there. I mean, it’s not like you actually need to go out and make a real impact in the real world. Just keep talking to the same dozen or so personalities on that site and pretend you’re an important Christian savior, right?
Tweeterfist “4) Yeah, I like dubstep and heavy European rave and underground rap and all assortment of filthy music that your cliche Christian wouldn’t like. Your point?”
Do you forget these things that your Bible commands you to do
– you shall not swear
– you shall not bear false witness
– you shall not speak evil
– you shall bear no grudge
– you shall not fornicate
– you shall no take part in drunkeness
You swear. You bear false witness. You bear grudges. You fornicate. You take part in recreational drugs and drunkeness. Yet you preach to others to save them?
How funny is that?
My point?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 warns us, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
That you are a fake and false Christian.
But then here is your idea of Christianity:
You’re warned to not take part in abominable things, but you do. You do drugs. You have sex out of wedlock per your own admission. You listen to Satanic music. Yet you parade around as a righteous Christian boy. You are a hypocrite. Everyone can see it.
Tweeterfist “Forgot about that gallery”
Yea, I’m sure you’d like nothing more than for people to forget about it since you’ve run off and deleted all those pictures now that you’ve been unraveled for everyone to see what a lying despicable hypocrite you are.
But I saved them, just for you 🙂
Am I Toby too now? I was banned for being a Toby because I didn’t share your view of the gospels. You and your crew made some pretty snarky and negative remarks about me, and I wasn’t even that character.
which makes me laugh when you say this “You have shown that you will bend evidence to fit the means of truth you wish.”
I bend evidence? You don’t even have any when you make your accusations you lying twit!
You sure love evidence {shakes my head}
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Here’s Logan’s idea of evidence:
“the world is only 10,000 years old and carbon dating has holes in it”
ROTFL
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“Third, I was chosen as a moderator [at VC] because I was a long time and decent poster. Again, ”YOU WORK AT FED RESERVE? YOU EVIL ZIONIST SCUM. KILL.”
But
“2) I base the supposed Toby team as authentic because in their posts they said things that only the higher circle, so to speak, of Truth Files (The site Toby, myself, and a few others created) would know.”
So you’re saying you believe the Jones clan on here because you had the insider information they said you knew about. Interesting admission of guilt you stupid fool.
I guess they are telling the truth then aren’t they and you are obviously a shill for Vigilant and know about his connections with the other Satanist groups supported by Henrik and the whole story as it unfolded is true and you’re all just here to do further damage control.
Wow, you are stupid. You just let it all out with that one FOOOOL!
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Someone’s made this comment on the VC site.
“And if people are really reading Toby’s blogs and taking them for what it is that’s on them.”
Looks like the predictable has happened and apparently Chaukeedaar and Yoy50 are now the infamous “Toby” too. Now just that allegation raises red flags to me that anyone telling the truth is going to be accused of being Toby.
Oh and look how Tweeter just lets the whole GIN thing slide, when it’s well known that GIN is indeed a scam. The ads that were on VC’s site were not a random google appearance through their adsense system but only an affiliate that had to already be part of the get up.
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Hey “Not Your Ordinary Citizen”,
“Looks like the predictable has happened and apparently Chaukeedaar and Yoy50 are now the infamous “Toby” too.”
Now at last THAT is funny… This Toby is a genious inventing so different writing styles, even reproducing a bad english from a german background like in my case 😉
Enough said, let me finish with stating that I’m quite overwhelmed by what kind of energies VC attracted during the years that now partly swapped to my comments section. And I’m happy that there are some good energies too, you people know who I mean 🙂
Peace, Chaukee
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KTG says this website is Toby’s so I guess you are Toby too like was already predicted Chauk. Sorry to let you know but you’re one of us too now, LOL.
KTG:
“Disclaimer #2: If Toby get’s this board shut down THAT IS HIS ASS! 😡
kissthegyrl wrote:
on 13/12/2011 at 02:00 | Reply kisstheygrl
This is really funny, I have been a poster and reader since VC started his blogs and message board. BE ADVISED VC IS NOT A DISINFO AGENT, BEWARE: TOBY IS BACK TO WORK! Good luck with this one Tweet, if nothing else this gives me great LOLZ! Wonder how long it’s going to take for me to be casted as one of the minions. *shrugz*.
And this was the reply double 🙄 🙄
Stupid Ass Toby wrote:
on 13/12/2011 at 12:54 | Reply Gyro
LOL, here come the alt’s and sycophants:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521
Kissthegyrl writes: “Yes Vig you are a dis info agent, you told me I was the only one for you then you married the other chic….I am sad now. j/k j/k
Seriously, I don’t think in any way you’re a dis info agent, being here from the beginning I haven’t witnessed you pushing anything off on anyone.”
Vigilant responds: “@KTG – you should have showed me your pics before i got married! That was a game changer :0
But yeah, KTG and Wormwood Blazes, my main goal is not to push a specific idea or conclusion. It is to incite awareness and get people thinking about what surrounds them.”
Can’t wait for more shills to show up, lol.
KTG:
“So apparently I can’t engage in my since of humor with Vig w/o being quoted on the douche bag site. I find it quite amusing that only this part of my reply to Vig was posted on the pathetic site. :laugh: But they posted Vig’s complete response to me.
Vig, I’m sorry dear you know KTG has a since of humor and I’m sure that’s why you replied with your own quirky comment. I guess I shouldn’t play with you like this anymore, that’s all you need is for the little tyrant Toby’douche to start ANOTHER blog saying, “Oh oh oh see? Vig cyber cheats on his wife, I TOLD YOU HE CAN’T BE TRUSTED!” Since this disinfo shit is a bunch of batshit insane voices in Toby’s head. :rolleyes:”
We’re all Toby’s
YAY!
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Look it’s happening here too, read kissthegyrl’s comments below. Looks like all the cheerleaders are coming over now, hahahahah.
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Looks like you are Toby too
KTG
“So apparently I can’t engage in my since of humor with Vig w/o being quoted on the douche bag site. I find it quite amusing that only this part of my reply to Vig was posted on the pathetic site. :laugh: But they posted Vig’s complete response to me.
Vig, I’m sorry dear you know KTG has a since of humor and I’m sure that’s why you replied with your own quirky comment. I guess I shouldn’t play with you like this anymore, that’s all you need is for the little tyrant Toby’douche to start ANOTHER blog saying, “Oh oh oh see? Vig cyber cheats on his wife, I TOLD YOU HE CAN’T BE TRUSTED!” Since this disinfo shit is a bunch of batshit insane voices in Toby’s head.”
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I passed the GIN thing off because you have no proof it wasn’t an ad. I’ve never seen it there. Why would I think otherwise?
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I saw it with my own eyes, the link had an affiliate number on it. Of course, you’re evidence is Vigilant Citizen’s word. Good evidence there, idiot!
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check out who’s already reading the damage control a few common names huh
png image hosting
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wrong link
heres the right one
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lol. unban my account and i will ask.
If not, as he is there to answer questions. please stop drooling over him and talking about “christians” – you are distracting from the meaning of the post that you YOURSELF supposedly advocated for
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I wanna see what Hexa says about you being banned. Wanna hear the other side of the story. I’ll advocate for what I think is the truth, but dunno if that’ll make a difference either way. I swear to Yahweh above on this though.
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You don’t have to for my benefit. If you would though. you can copy and paste my questions. I feel as though they are very detailed. Or you can answer yourself. While I don’t agree with …personal attacks. Sticking to the topic at hand – ive yet to get an answer as to why some sites are blocked by the filter and the implications that poses.
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You like swearing to Yahweh and God don’t you. But your Bible says that this is tempting the Lord your God, doesn’t it?
You lose again.
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It’s been more than a day now, Hexa’s logged in many times, it just didn’t happen, did it?
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This is really funny, I have been a poster and reader since VC started his blogs and message board. BE ADVISED VC IS NOT A DISINFO AGENT, BEWARE: TOBY IS BACK TO WORK! Good luck with this one Tweet, if nothing else this gives me great LOLZ! Wonder how long it’s going to take for me to be casted as one of the minions. *shrugz*
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LOL, here come the alt’s and sycophants:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&sid=cb8d5ad522f835d8f080eb373bf37de8
Kissthegyrl writes: “Yes Vig you are a dis info agent, you told me I was the only one for you then you married the other chic….I am sad now. 😥 j/k j/k
Seriously, I don’t think in any way you’re a dis info agent, being here from the beginning I haven’t witnessed you pushing anything off on anyone.”
Vigilant responds: “@KTG – you should have showed me your pics before i got married! That was a game changer :0
But yeah, KTG and Wormwood Blazes, my main goal is not to push a specific idea or conclusion. It is to incite awareness and get people thinking about what surrounds them.”
Can’t wait for more shills to show up, lol.
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You bro, I’m an alt of a shill of a Monarch programmed Canadian boy. Rotten kids ruined my fun.
”See, now he’s joking about it to desensitize us of this and pass our theories off as jokes.”
Ya bro, the Jesuits trained me and I got buddies in the Malta and Opus Dei that’ll fuck your shit son.
”SEE? AGAIN!”
Head asplode, gg
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No just another victim of meth, coke, pot amongst other cocktails designed to numb your head, put holes in your consciousness and bypass your critical thinking faculties so you believe everything you are told like a good little lap dog while at the same time believing that you are in control of your mind. You’re the perfect slave and no Monarch programming needed.
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Yawn. Same old lies by KTG. She just fangirls Vc, is probably an alt
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kissthegyrl,
What the fuck is wrong with your head?
I thought you were smarter than that.
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Consider his track record. Shows why the thread has only fan comments
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Ƥπ‡Fζυ× threads get deleted
And voila
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Tell Aeon to post his questions here at least they won’t be censored.
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I’m not surprised that the majority of responses in that thread would be from sycophants, since most of us who actually raised the questions have been banned and silenced. In addition to that, numerous people on there are oblivious to the details of the accusations against him anyway. My direct communications with him have not been very personable; I’ve already caught a glimpse of the type of person he may be –those posting in that thread have not, and they’ve obviously had much more pleasant experiences with the forum than those who have been banned. On top of it all, they also have an idealized image of him as a good, heroic, person who is doing something great for each of them and now with that thread, he seeks to reinforce that image in their minds.
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By the way, I am copy pasting what I’ve got from Vigilant. For someone who says that you can come and talk facts on his thread, he sure makes sure we don’t reply
CEASE and DESIST any contact with vigilantcitizen.com by e-mail, through message boards or through comments. Any further contact after this CEASE and DESIST notice will be reported for harassment.
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he sent you a cease and dessist? woa, him’s getting serious, lol
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Yep, anyone asking any hard questions is getting banned or comments deleted over there. But Kissthegyrl always seems to show up to defend him anytime someone has asked hard questions in the past and now. Nah, VC and his crew wouldn’t create a bunch of accounts to give the illusion of being one big happy family over there,lol.
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Why don’t any of you post? Like I said there…
Really? That’s it? Guests, come out from the bushes, eat your heart out. Or is seeking the truth personally less fun than throwing random allegations out and connecting flimsy dots?
I don’t say these things because I have some boner for VC either. I say these things because it’s people like this, who are mesmerized by appealing stories from random sources and jump to conclusions without some real evidence, that give truthers a bad name.
I have a vendetta against this type of truther because they simply are shepherded out from the main flock to become a sheep in an underground one, and yet I am sure they considers themselves above the mainstream population in intelligence and perception regardless, as if just making that step over to know what really happened in 9/11 makes you just shiinnnning.
This is the mindset that let’s disinformation flourish to begin with. I’ll stfu now though.
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Unban me and I will post questions with facts about VC . You underestimate my technical skills. I have knowledge on VC no one does which is why I got mailed that notice
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Tweeterfist: “Why don’t any of you post? Like I said there.”
Because most people aren’t stupid like you. People know what happens when you post there. You first get silenced, then you get harassed and stalked by mysterious no body’s and it’s all blamed on outsiders.
Here free speech is allowed and your crew can’t silence us.
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Yeah Tweet,
Go read your Bible or something.
Also, the banning of Adam C. Madison was one of the best days of my life. I used to want to get the urge to reach my hand in the computer screen and strangle the living hell out of the bastard.
As for Chainmaker, Bible thumpers like him piss me off. I’ve had many problems with those people throughout my life.
I get great joy out of the misery of people I hate and Adam C. Madison was one of them.
Now HE was a tride and true troll. Not femalepharoe, not TS-san, not MysticShadow, not mysticseeker, and most certainly not Aeon Flux.
I noticed that VC uses the word “troll” very liberally. Trust me, I’ve seen trolls from being a longtime online lurker on the internet in general. They most certainly were nothing like the ones who were just banned.
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Is just me or is it possible that the obsessive Lady Gaga fans in the forums could be people that are paid and hired by the record companies (such as Interscope, which in turn is part of Universal Music Group) to go and cover up any negative publicity concerning their latest roster of “artist”.
I get the feeling that UMG probably pays these people very well.
Just a random thought going around in my head right now.
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Nah, there really are such people in the World sadly
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I don’t get it.
Why are these obsessed fangirls/fanboys on that site.
Oh and here’s a real gem. This time I get attacked by the “Little Monsters” for saying that Gaga is not a positive role model for children to emulate:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7430
I, Ayaka said:
Oh, great.
When will parents like the one in the photo ever realize that Lady Gaga is not someone for children to look up to and try to emulate?
Come to think of it, I don’t think any of these celebrites are child-friendly.
Yes, I’m well aware that the celebrity culture is just about everywhere (Because it’s so in-your-face, you’re always going to see it everytime you go outside and so are your children.) and is pretty much impossible to completely shield your children from it. But seriously, parents should at least take their time to talk to their children and explain to them that people like Gaga, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, and the likes are not postive role models. If possible, it would be best to try to limit a child’s intake of celebrites at home.
I highly doubt they even care, though and are going to keep falling in the same trap.
Then here comes the elite/illuminati/shadow government/whatever you want to call it denier HausOfHerpies, again, trying to make me look like a paranoid fool:
Ignorant.
Lady Gaga is highly eccentric and does some questionable things but as I have said before on this forum she preaches respect and tolerance to her fans and anyone listening and devotes her time and money to various charities including the one she has just started, The Born This Way Foundation which promotes self-esteem and confidence building and helps teens with career options and vocational training.
Heaven forbid they start looking up to an independent, educated, intelligent singer-songwriter and pianist, They might get ambitious.
Me again, taking my usual cynical jabs at people I don’t agree with:
Looks like somebody is still stuck and caught up in the celebrity culture.
I’m not sure whenever you know it or not, but postitve role models can also include people in everyday life other than celebrites.
Celebrites have way too much negativity in them (That means that they have more negative personality traits than positive ones.) and I find them very hard to associate with. They are different from us. Why should children have to look up to someone that is from a different class than them, when they have ordinary people just like them who actually do things. Celebrites in my opinion are some of the most useless people on the planet. What do they actually contribute that is beneficial? Not much. What, faking emotions on film, modeling an outfit, or singing a stupid song. DOES THAT EVEN MATTER?!
It’s meaningless, worthless, illogical, and has no point.
Also, a good majorty of celebrites are self-centered assholes who think that their shit doesn’t stink. Would you want a child to end up like that?
You can have Gaga and her Baphomet. I don’t want her.
Okay, now here comes some support by the smart users like Let’s Glow, and another user that I don’t see very often (Adixion) trying to back up my point.
Adixion:
And don’t forget their obscene amount of luxury, for doing…….
Let’s Glow questioning HausOfHerpies:
are you serious?? why the obsession with a consumer product you will never know ….. or do you know her?
Hartwell then chimes in and guess who he supports:
So many people getting emotional over one little picture… I don’t see anything wrong with the picture. The parent is not selling her child off, like some people *cough*. It doesn’t matter if you love or hate Lady Gaga, there is nothing wrong with that picture.
What the fuck, Hartwell are you that dense?
Okay, how did this guy get to be moderator again?
For someone who is supposed to be a moderator, you think he would be much smarter and have freed himself from the celebrity obsession that was programmed into his mind starting with the day he emerged from the womb.
No matter how hard you try to drill the obvious in someone’s thick head, some people will never understand what you’re trying to tell them.
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Hi everyone, I too am at the vigilant citizen’s website and have doubted for some time the message that the site puts out because of some weird behavior of the owner and how some comments keep getting deleted in the blog postings and critics are silence quickly on the site itself. I just don’t want to say who I am yet because I’m afraid I’ll be deleted or banned too and I have some friends there that I’d like to keep in contact with.
The above is definitely Henrik’s work, true. You can tell because the voice over is the same as some of his youtube productions, and disturbing death metal video’s.
Now he Henrik, admits to working with Satanists on Death Metal projects, uses the Masonic Lion symbol on his website, and puts it all out in the open claiming allegiance to God?!? Wow, messed up!
The question is which God? The God of this planet obviously.
Let’s look at the time line of events though.
– Just In Time (JiT) comes in here with information about these guys like 2 months ago.
– He shows the connection of the VC owners/s with this Henrik character, who after some observation certainly is plausible. This Henrik guy, through his music certainly carries a distinct satanic energy, confirmed by his persona as expressed through his websites. I have enough reason just observing this character to question his motives.
– Then Ibsen shows up, which is later revealed to be a pseudo name of Henrik to basically just flame JiT
– The Jones’ or whatever then show up and are giving some pretty detailed and what seems to be real insider information between these parties, admitting they were part of whatever social experiment that so many thought was happening there in the past. All of this has a bit of ring of truth to it, as distorted as it sounds.
– The ones identified as the owners of VC have a company called Distort media. Henrik has the same sort of distorted message in his music. They both produce for metal bands.
and now
Henrik comes out with information that he has associated with metal bands that are Satanic.
It sounds to me like there was some sort of internal breakup or problem within he site and some of that information is being dispersed here and there is some heavy damage control. Why else would Henrik come out and openly admit to his satanic music connections if he didn’t get the message that whomever was involved with this internal VC project was going to spill the beans eventually? Alas, complete damage control and spin doctoring in effect.
Henrik says,
“When I say I mixed and mastered albums for Norwegian satanic death/black metal bands, I know what kind of images that conjures up. The reality of it is that these were not produced in some seedy dungeon with pentagrams painted on the walls, nor in glitzy studios monitored by Hollywood handlers with cigars in their mouths. These were two guys I got to know purely out of a common interest in music and probably an interest in each other’s cultures. We became friends and I mixed their album out of my own apartment. Elite stuff right there.”
Just-In-Time earlier points out
“So he says in his intro that he’s into design and death metal and has liaised with another production company in Canada. Sounds just like what Justin Time was saying about the founders of Vigilant Citizen and their Distort Media company. Look at his other website illomennation which reads Illumination and his scanime.com website with the infamous masonic lion just like Justin Time identified.”
So looks like JIt was onto something and there’s probably some truth to the Jones’ story, though I think that admitting they were involved in a study like this makes them suspect as well. Then there’s the whole issue with how many people have shown up here recently, myself included, and are trying to take this discussion into different directions. To those that are curious, a lot of users at the VC website are being made aware of this address and reading this discussion. I am one of them and have come out of lurk mode to express my concerns. I’ve seen what happens there when someone doesn’t tow the usual party line. Real trolls are allowed to troll without interuption and those who ask real hard questions are silenced, removed and their threads deleted.
So scanime.com huh?
Scanime? Like Scan I Me? Scan Me? Scam Me? all out in the open aye folks?
Yep damage control. Henrik has something like 25 posts and most of them are in these damage control threads just guiding the mindless users thinking. How obvious.
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@Gyro, thank you for that interesting breakdown. There definitely is something shady going on behind the scenes at VC, and even if by chance there wasn’t anything truly sinister behind it, the behaviour of VC and his moderators, are enough to turn any sensible person away from that joke of a forum.
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Nah, the Lion isn’t a Biblical symbol either, right?
The rest of fabrication there is well written. You’ve got disinformation locked down for the ignorant of mind
”So scanime.com huh?
Scanime? Like Scan I Me? Scan Me? Scam Me? all out in the open aye folks?”
XDDDDD
Oh so funny, but sad that some here will actually consider that brilliant.
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Seriously idiot?
It’s right in front of your eyes but you’ve been so blinded by them whispering in your ears, obviously. You are a total mind controlled puppet and you didn’t even need anything crazy to turn your mind over to them. Just a stupid high school kid who did too many drugs, has holes in his consciousness and believes any wild conspiracy told to him.
Ooogey Boogey Man, I must be big bad Toby too, ROTFL!!
“C.S. Lewis on the other hand, who wrote the books of Narnia, another fantasy world, used a Lion God (also a symbol for the “God” of the Illuminati – Satan/Lucifer). This Lion God he called Aslan, compared to the Brotherhood’s “Asalam” (see below). ”
http://www.illuminati-news.com/tolkien-occult.htm
The Lion is an occult symbol Tweeterfist. Get your head on straight!
Do you need more examples?
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Seriously idiot?
It’s right in front of your eyes but you’ve been so blinded by them whispering in your ears, obviously. You are a total mind controlled puppet and you didn’t even need anything crazy to turn your mind over to them. Just a stupid high school kid who did too many drugs, has holes in his consciousness and believes any wild conspiracy told to him.
Ooogey Boogey Man, I must be big bad Toby too, ROTFL!!
“C.S. Lewis on the other hand, who wrote the books of Narnia, another fantasy world, used a Lion God (also a symbol for the “God” of the Illuminati – Satan/Lucifer). This Lion God he called Aslan, compared to the Brotherhood’s “Asalam” (see below). ”
http://www.illuminati-news.com/tolkien-occult.htm
The Lion is an occult symbol Tweeterfist. Get your head on straight!
Do you need more examples?
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Oh and here’s a comment by previous moderator Russian Nika, the one who posted naked pics of herself now known as Kataazyna
What’s with all the drama on the forum guys? Honestly, who cares? It’s just a message board on the internet, not the UN. Everyone calm down and let’s just post some funny pictures or something.
Isn’t that the definition of pretty much half of the VC brigade?
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I saw that one.
I’m not sure whether you know it or not, but those “funny” (or shall I say annoying) meme pictures are another reason why the site feel like I just stumbled into a deserted wasteland.
Also, I had no idea that Kat and Russian Nika are the same person. So that explains why there has been a sudden rise in the sex threads in the General section ever since she has joined here. Let’s see nude photos, then constantly talking about sex. Maybe she’s desperate?
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Someone just told me outside the forums that the one known as Loki and Russian Nika were exchanging nude photo’s of each other and that led to demotions on the old boards and part of the reason it was shut down too. lol, the plot thickens.
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I was just told about this outside the forums but apparently part of the reason why the old boards went down was because RussianNika and the user now known as Loki who was formerly known as Grey Sanity had some issues. He was apparently stalking her cell and email and through other instant messaging sources sending nude pics of himself. She also sent him nude pics and both threatened to send them around unless they agreed to keep it hush hush. Problem is that RussianNika started a competing board to vigilant citizen called the outer circle and showed some of the members there pictures of Loki’s dick, lol, and it got around after one of the early members called Belligerent and Russian Nika also had some sort of bust up over money lent and it being used for drugs. RN sent Belligerent money for somethign and Belligerent wasted it on pot which made RN mad. At least that’s what’s being said right now.
LOL Plot thickens, and none of the people there can be trusted. I doubt I’ll go back now.
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Let’s not forget that horny Katarzyna/Russian Nika was always the one who was starting conversations about sex/pornography all the time in Tinychat. Woman used to piss me off and I had to leave whenever she bought that shit up.
It’s pretty obivious that she was desperate for some head and wanted to get laid. But seriously, what the hell was she doing on a site like VC?
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This was her avvie with her errr…. you know hanging out
http://www.google.com.pk/imgres?q=RussianNika+VigilantCitizen&um=1&hl=en&rlz=1C1GGGE_enPK412PK412&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbnid=qn-WRqPIfhjg6M:&imgrefurl=http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D1415&docid=_MYEwgssuU5LZM&itg=1&imgurl=http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/download/file.php%253Favatar%253D168_1303783367.jpg&w=150&h=116&ei=KOPmTqenC5HN4QTb4a3fCA&zoom=1
Oh and she was supposedly stalked by this Toby
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Truthseer,
I don’t feel like crowding up the comment section anymore with my comments.
So is it okay if we please continue this via e-mail?
Please e-mail me first and I will reply to you. ^_^
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@Tweeter fist, I echo Io and others feelings, in that we were banned WITHOUT REASON. This isn’t necessarily about VC being dis-info, but the fact that he and you, the moderators are all completely and utterly blind and obviously working along to an agenda and don’t like people stepping outside of it. NEVER has a warning being given. You have shown yourself to be naive, ignorant or going along with bannings, if you suspect somebody is a troll you warn them or question them surely.Being banned for simply speaking your mind will never win you fans.
VC not wanting people discussing it also shows his character as some childish wizard of Oz type Wizard who is unable or unwilling to respond to any questions or comments, as are you the moderators. People were forced to speak openly about your lack moderating and questionable tactics because you fail to respond to any messages. You might as-well have a banner saying “DO NOT STRAY AWAY FROM THE HERD! OR YOU WILL BE REMOVED”
You also mistake us as “popping up out of nowhere” when we have been on the site for months, I had around 140 posts. I only started getting annoyed after the content of the site being childish and frankly absurd as Ayaka said, the mindless spam threads about some sexual thing or nonsense that has nothing to do with anything. Furthermore the MODERATORS get involved there MORE than in any actual meaningful subject and the push it along. The posters who actually created interesting threads and discussions have mostly all been banned or left because they’ve most likely had enough of the circus or become aware of your tactics.
To invite me back using a different name is frankly insulting. No forum is bigger than its members. Unfortunately its quite clear the sort of members VC wants in its forums. mindless mold-able vulnerable young people, and others who genuinely fell for the trap.
You want us to be “ooh wow! VC is answering questions” its gone past that, what he says doesn’t mean jack he will say what he will say.. As others said all the people who had decent questions to ask have been banned or left.
Other lets say “preferential” members are also aloud to say things, when others aren’t what is a banning comments for one its perfectly acceptable for another it seems.. maybe because with them they will guide the thread a-long with the moderators agenda.
You repeatedly ask for proof about things, read the damn forums like you’re supposed to and you can’t not see it.
Also learn to read names, and not come to some ridiculous conclusion that anybody who has a similar name is either the same person or trolls.
MysticShadow.
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“Also learn to read names, and not come to some ridiculous conclusion that anybody who has a similar name is either the same person or trolls.
MysticShadow.”
Are you sure you’re not Toby too, like the rest of us? :p
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They give the name Toby to whoever opposes their regime in order to demonize said individual.
Think within our own country there will always be the American sheep who defend their country even though they are truly ignorant as to what is exactly going on.
That1Kid in response to Mitch Joel’s statement. (VC Dummy Account):
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521
“I love this thread
Your replies shows us that you’re just like us, normal but unique to all.”
This is exactly how our government misleads the American sheeple into faith in government.
“Oh Obama shook my hand hurr durr he’s a regular guy!”
Please you retard.. the elite are always one step ahead of you they have studied humans and their psychology for centuries.
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whatever you say Toby :p
lol
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Also, Toby posted here above, dammit you guys are blind. Any vet will tell you Toby existed, you guys don’t even know what you’re talking about and you’re being trolled by Truthseer lol. Just sad.
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LOL WUT?!?!
You are so stupid Tweeterfist. It’s already been pointed out that there is no evidence that those Jones are who you say they are, yet you believe it because they say so?!?!
That really works against you because you come across as a paranoid idiot that believes anything his over imaginative mind can come up with. Some of us are sitting here reading this having a good laugh at all the drama and nothing more. Some of us don’t trust VC for our own reasons and don’t need anyone else to tell us why.
The Jones group, or whatever they call themselves, could be full of it like so many users already have pointed out, including Chaukeedaar himself and yet you just believe their story?
Maybe you want to help keep it alive because your VC clan are the ones who planted them in the first place, which is more believable given your guys track record or doing this sort of thing.
Who am I, quick? Am I your boogey man too?
Sheesh, big head shake over here. You’re such a tool!
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All I see is you believing what some people claim to be here, like you do for most everything you do.
You have tool written on your forehead Tweeterfist
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Gone over why VC doesn’t allow discussion against him there anymore. Helped cause a huge war in the forums. Used to be free game, ask any veteran member. There are reasons for these things, you are closed into investigating the matter further and more properly and just wanna see what you see.
I’ve talked to Io, I’ll discuss you guys coming back. Wasn’t aware you were longer termed members or weren’t warned. Take it or leave it. Honestly don’t care anymore.
Obviously you don’t go to Religions either, where almost anything is free game. None of the most intelligent people there are being silenced. Most intelligent on there centre around Religion and Spirituality and they’re all there still, the ones who did leave leaving months and months ago anyways.
Blah blah blah though right?
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Tweeterfist “Gone over why VC doesn’t allow discussion against him there anymore.”
Yeah we know, you’re his little patsy messenger boy. Hope you get a good pat on the head for your efforts sucker. Is that it? All they have to do is heap false praise on you and you give them your all. You’re dealing with elite tacticians who know human psychology very well and how to motivate you. You don’t know this but you come across as a perfect lap dog to the outside observer.
Tweeterfist “Obviously you don’t go to Religions either, where almost anything is free game. None of the most intelligent people there are being silenced. Most intelligent on there centre around Religion and Spirituality and they’re all there still, the ones who did leave leaving months and months ago anyways.”
Uhm no, anytime someone talks about the gospels in a way that you and your crew don’t agree with you label them a Gnostic Satanist and then a Toby and then ban them, and then you guys all high five each other like little kids.
It’s pathetic.
Just look at how Artful Revealer is already being set up for this downfall.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3396&start=60
“I specifically remember reading from you yourself artful revealer (toby) that Gnostic thought is derived from Plato”
7th post down from the top by ladygagafan12 who is another mind numb forum slave that has done this thing for you guys on numerous other occasions, myself included.
Artful Revealer has already been identified as a Gnostic Luciferian. Your minions have already entered the thread and are calling him Toby, and soon he’ll be eliminated like anyone else who doesn’t tow your party line.
You guys call anyone you want to silence a Toby, probably even creating puppets yourselves to have a handy boogey man title to lay on anyone you need to ban for whatever reason.
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Tweeterfist “Gone over why VC doesn’t allow discussion against him there anymore.”
Yeah we know, you’re his little patsy messenger boy. Hope you get a good pat on the head for your efforts sucker. Is that it? All they have to do is heap false praise on you and you give them your all. You’re dealing with elite tacticians who know human psychology very well and how to motivate you. You don’t know this but you come across as a perfect lap dog to the outside observer.
Tweeterfist “Obviously you don’t go to Religions either, where almost anything is free game. None of the most intelligent people there are being silenced. Most intelligent on there centre around Religion and Spirituality and they’re all there still, the ones who did leave leaving months and months ago anyways.”
Uhm no, anytime someone talks about the gospels in a way that you and your crew don’t agree with you label them a Gnostic Satanist and then a Toby and then ban them, and then you guys all high five each other like little kids.
It’s pathetic.
Just look at how Artful Revealer is already being set up for this downfall.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3396&start=60
“I specifically remember reading from you yourself artful revealer (toby) that Gnostic thought is derived from Plato”
7th post down from the top by ladygagafan12 who is another mind numb forum slave that has done this thing for you guys on numerous other occasions, myself included.
Artful Revealer has already been identified as a Gnostic Luciferian. Your minions have already entered the thread and are calling him Toby, and soon he’ll be eliminated like anyone else who doesn’t tow your party line.
You guys call anyone you want to silence a Toby, probably even creating puppets yourselves to have a handy boogey man title to lay on anyone you need to ban for whatever reason.
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“That’s a very accurate summary of how the forum actually operates. In regards to the rampant sex/pornographic content on VC– I reported some pornographic images in a couple of posts before, but my reports were simply closed”
(mysticseeker ^)
Awkward moment when sees mysticshadow reported “pornographic images”, not mysticseeker. 😉
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We both reported them. Thanks ;).
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Look again.
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It isn’t too far removed to state that the forums have always played favorites.
To think that a whole forum in essence was wiped over the drama of a girl.
Thousands upon thousands of posts just destroyed and the site was just closed down showing us that the one they call Vigilant Citizen aka Mitch Joel doesn’t give a damn about his online community. The new forums are a joke and a frail corpse compared to it once was. Many posters have seen him for what he is a music-industry/elite pawn that want’s to keep tabs on those “in the know.” Vigilant Citizen was never something I considered a primary source of information and on the new boards even less so. It has quickly dissolved into a high school popularity contests where the moderators are within the social cliques that the forum prescribes. Essentially just like high school it’s the less mentally gifted posters who are members of the social scene that are rewarded and patted on the back and the ones who are actually there to learn and educate themselves are persecuted (and banned). The way the forum is upheld heavily mirrors the control systems exercised by the elite. By killing the voice of the people through banning (virtual deaths) and censorship.
As long as you are within the social circle or are willing to metaphorically “ride Mitch Joel’s dick” (i.e Kissthegyrl, Sarge) or befriend his moderation you are in the clear.
Posters like United4ever was in essence banned for initially being attacked by a egotistical “self proclaimed Muslim” troll and retaliating to him.
He preaches Islam on the site yet his role outside the religious forums says otherwise.
Mitch Joel has no interest in his readers just maintaining the illusion that he is in fact not a media pawn.
If you are thinking about joining the Vigilant Citizen Message Boards think again unless you want your ideas under the tabs of the elite. The forum in all honesty is just a harvest farm for the elite. Deeper truths are not even conversed about threads are all the same usual strings of garbage and there really are more suitable conspiracy forums out there.
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I thought Mitch was the internet marketing genius and Kanfi the one from Lebanon where VC said he was from is the one who is more active in the site? You know something more?
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The big collapse of the forums had a lot more to do with than over some girl. There were death threats sent to people and possible charges were going to be laid, alongside a whole host of other issues regarding the very same whispers of conspiracy as is going on here (I would know, I was right in there whispering too)
But blah blah blah why am I even saying this shit? Not like anyone here will take my word, because, yknow, once you start helping moderate a site that automatically means you’re on a payroll. Shit I wish.
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No one is taking your word because you are a bilnd follower and puppet of VC. It’s all been laid out above.
You don’t know him, but defend him
You didn’t know GIN network affiliate ads, indicating he was a member, were running on his site and he promptly removed them when it was indicated that they were, but defend him
You’re here claiming to have suspicions about him, but are defending him and then without a shred of proof are blaming all of this on boogey men. I can assure you I am real and not your boogey man, but you don’t care for evidence at all, you just repeat what you are told like a good little puppet boy that you are.
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You are all wasting too much time on this stuff… this is what they are trying to do! You guys fight about something that really isnt important and gets you off tracks of the truth! YES VC isnt what its seems to be, spread that and move on!
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Where did my new age comment go?
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Inb4butthurttrolls :3
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Now this has to be the funniest comment by Layaamani. For anyone who doesn’t know Layaamani is one of those teenagers on the site who generally isn’t trollish or attacking, but spends most of her time in the social forums playing name games and other mind numbing social threads. She’s been promoted as a moderator because?
Draw your own conclusions.
No offense Layaamani, I’ve never had a problem with you on the forums personally, just pointing out what sort of behavior is acceptable over there, the kind without question and full of distraction more specifically.
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Blindly siding with your country until the end..
After a while you begin to wonder as to whether certain individuals are there for their clique or there for information regardless of who VC is.
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And Hexa is a Satanic witch. I proved that but got banned
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get a life trolls
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@SilentObserver, it seems to me that more people are there for the “cliques” and for socializing like the buffoons on Jersey Shore, rather than there to actually discuss and/or exchange truth-seeking information and ideas with like-minded people.
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I see the indoctrination and attention-deflectors are here
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I swear the world “troll” is given to anyone on the site that doesn’t agree with the teenagers on there.
I was called that word a couple of times for trying to get these celebrity-worshiping kids to wake up.
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When a water source is tainted you move onto another one.
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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/
http://forum.davidicke.com/
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/
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CONCERNING IO,
Yes, if what you say is true then I agree it should have all been handled better. I wasn’t aware of any of this. I’ll talk to Hart about it, you should have been informed of what you were doing wrong for sure.
If you don’t want to post then whatever, I still wish to pursue this because of the principle of it.
And my apologies, I didn’t condemn you as to testing the waters, I simply stated that if that’s the case then let me know. I have absolutely no idea who you are and whether or not you’re like that so I feel obligated to put it out there of course.
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@Tweeterfist,
By all means, feel free to pursue it. “Hartwell” is very ban-happy and has extremely poor judgement; I have no idea why he was promoted to a moderator position in the first place. He has demonstrated no redeeming qualities that would give one a better understanding as to why anyone in their right-mind would place him in a position of authority…not to mention that the majority of his posts are also in the social/off-topic section of the forum…
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Well I’ll look into it more man. I truly am just an old poster who’s gained a lot from the boards so it means something to me and I wanna make it a good place for everyone. I try to be as lenient as possible, except in the cases of persisting trolls or flamers or any of that of course.
Your account indeed has no warnings, which should have been issued, even if you persisted in asking about VC or questioning mod leadership. Banning should not be the first thing in mind come such a thing at all.
I’ll get back to you and I really am sorry for the inconvenience this has caused. I don’t agree with this at all.
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CONCERNING FP,
Hexa will post a thorough response to your earlier comment to me tonight. He also has said he’d be willing to meet you in any public chat or place of your choice.
If this matters that much to you then you guys will try to sort it out. It matters to me as well because I liked you as a poster so I hope things get straightened out.
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I do see that you are more lenient than the others, and are more sincerely concerned with the forum and moderation, and I have noticed that while on the forums as well. Just so you know, I was not persistent in questioning the mods or leadership –I made only one post about the moderation.
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The above message is directed @Tweeterfist.
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Says you made two here, one titled WHO IS?(CONTINUED)
But I see no warnings.
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Sorry, meant threads btw.
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@Tweeterfist,
I made the “WHO IS?” thread questioning VC (NOT the moderators), and it got locked (according to the reason given by Harwell), because Mysticshadow made a comment saying that posts tend to get deleted when you question things about the forum…I then thought it only fair that I could CONTINUE the discussion about VC since my initial thread was locked due to ONE individual’s supposed violation, hence “WHO IS? (CONTINUED).” I then got permanently banned for wanting to continue the discussion about VC….
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@Tweeterfist, This was exactly our point before any of this came to light, the moderation. The fact people are just been banned without reason or warning and nobody listening. The “contact admin” form never gets a response, and if you even say anything about moderators your thread is closed and you are banned. It is mostly Hartwell though. I am certain my profile will have 0 warnings too, despite the fact that I have been banned twice.
Nobody is looking into the practices of the moderators. Just letting them ban anybody who they don’t agree with.
MysticShadow.
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Your account also indeed has no warnings. Yeah this is a problem. The warnings are put in there for good reason and should be used… I’ll talk to them about this and share your thoughts.
There indeed needs to be more communication on these boards. That’s why PMs were also installed and I had asked for them back a while ago for that purpose, so we could personally talk to you guys and clear up things one on one.
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Concerning PM’s:
“Secrecy is the freedom tyrants dream of. ”
Bill Moyers
The truth should be held in the light open and not hidden from any individual, Mr(s) Tweeterfist.
If you represent what claims to be a community and a truly open, and free society then the moderation’s first step is to act as such.
For example why is username: Smashbros permanently banned?
Creatures of darkness will be labelled as such; pending their intimacy with the light.
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In fact, the post that got me my initial 24hr ban is below:
“To the mods of this forum:
Since personal messages are apparently not allowed on this site, I have no choice but to send my message openly. My intention is not to be argumentative, but the truth must be stated. I have a question for all the moderators on this forum: Do you not take your role of enforcing the rules/guidelines on this forum seriously? Many of you seem to “moderate” by your own personal views rather than the actual rules and guidelines for this forum. It was my understanding that moderators were meant to enforce while themselves being of exemplary character, however, in my opinion, that is certainly not the case on here. Vary rarely are threads closed or “moderated” –people are allowed to post racist, misogynistic, and vulgar things on numerous occasions and go unchallenged. In fact, I don’t recall a moderator actually ever telling anybody to NOT do something or to not go down the route they are going yet we all know there has been far too many times when they SHOULD have. This forum could of been a good place to exchange views and alternative knowledge in an informative adult way which is especially necessary due to the amount of younger impressionable people who visit this site seeking information from like-minded, mature people. This forum however, (to put it bluntly), is just a circus of absurdity and stupidity, with the odd or occasional thread having some substance in its content. One major reason why this forum is in the state it is in is because of the lack of moderation. I’ve seen the posting rules and guidelines violated numerous times, and in some cases mods have done so themselves. I hope something can be done to prevent the situation from getting worse; however, I fear that it is already too late. Again, I don’t mean to be argumentative or troublesome, I just want to point out what I find to be one of the main issues behind the failure and breakdown of this forum. If moderators did their jobs, then perhaps this forum could someday improve. ”
I went to check on that post after 2 minutes and it was deleted and I was banned immediately. If that post is out of line and violates the rules of the forum then that is fair enough and I can accept that because the form itself is ludicrous. However, I was not aware that I was doing something wrong and felt that the situation could have been handled in a much better way.
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VC’s groupies/alts are so annoying
lyke that kiss the boy dude or w/e why is he on this forum does he brung the informashun i dun get him
half these weirdos should be on chatroullette or omegle or something
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QWERTY troll to defame us
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VC’s groupies/alts are so annoying
lyke that kiss the boy dude or w/e why is he on this forum does he brung the informashun i dun get him
half these weirdos should be on chatroullette or omegle or something
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I just lol’d reading all this shit 🙂
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QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKL is a disinfo agent. Which is why despite 3 mods being online, he is not banned.
WE ARE NOT STUPID
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Also to add, his trolling antics are being allowed, his posts, unlike anyone else’s troll accounts are not deleted but responded to by mods.
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Certainly seems that way, making all of us with relevant issues with VC seem like pathetic fools who can’t type a single word.
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Thank you for realising that too. You know, let me give you an example. FP made an alt and wrote that essay. She was banned and the post deleted in seconds. Contrast with this troll and it’s obvious it’s controlled opposition,
KTG might even be behind it
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I don’t know truthseer, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions –it looks more like it is a former user who also become suspicious of VC. Howerver, some statements they made were kind of odd…and the moderators allowing it to go on raises questions. Perhaps they know who the former user is and were once clique buddies.
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That is possible too, io
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Yeah without a doubt it seems like it was a moderation attempt to trivialize and discredit everything we are saying here.
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Gyro above also seems like an attempt to make us believe in a Toby. I believe they even said that on the forums like we’re all Toby
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on 13/12/2011 at 20:08 truthseer
Thank you for realising that too. You know, let me give you an example. FP made an alt and wrote that essay. She was banned and the post deleted in seconds. Contrast with this troll and it’s obvious it’s controlled opposition,
KTG might even be behind it
Couldn’t be more wrong truthlier….i honestly didn’t even know FP was banned until reading it here. Furthermore I liked FP so why would I have ANYTHING to do with her ban? Proof please? I’m very curious about this.
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Don’t act stupid. It’s clear that I meant that the troll is you, not that you banned FP
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OMG! Are you breaindead? WTF are you talking about then? Yes, I tend to troll at times but I don’t seek to offend anyone, I mostly troll S&OT section…. NOT BREAKING ANY RULES THERE GENIUS! Other than that I give my opinions on other threads with a little added humor, but it’s on topic unless it’s a thread that was created for dearailing. You’re just butthurt that you were banned, I had no issues with you (I’m sure you knew/know that) so you’re falsely calling me out why now?
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I don’t remember ever conversing with you. You’re just an inactive member who’s jumping to VC for help, like the MK victim
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No KTG,
I believe YOU are the one who is braindead.
Look, I know you have been kind to me so far, but I just had to break out of my shell and admit what has been bothering me for a while already.
What real information have you contributed to the site.
Nothing.
A typical KTG post:
“I personally don’t think there’s anything wrong with p.o.r.n. I actually learned some very good techniques watching it. I think ameture is much better though, all of the air brushing and makeing eveyone up to be glossy and perfect can alter your attractions in some ways.. Ameture you’re more engaged in the act of it rather how perfectly blemishless the girl/guys asses are. Just saying.
I LOVE making movies though….Nothing like being a p.o.r.n. star for my man. Now, he can watch that all day… Hell, I’ll even watch it with’em.”
This sure doesn’t sound like a post made by an “awakened” person on a website that is supposed to be about “finding the truth” now, does it?
Also, KTG sounds like KGB to me.
There’s something to think about.
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@Ayaka, lol very true! This is one of the things I found disturbing about the forum as well.
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P.S. KTG wasn’t behind shit….. I got the Toby info same as you did… AFTER THE FACT….nonetheless I never really got involved in the mod politics since I used to be one so put that in your pipe and smoke it k?
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You’re speaking in the third person now. Deliberately being dumb, that’s the third person now after Daciple and Tweet
Same Toby Info you did, I wasn’t here when or if a Toby did something. All the info I got was from Russian Nika/CIA or Hexa (The satanic witch)
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Can you comment on this then
“Gyro
I was just told about this outside the forums but apparently part of the reason why the old boards went down was because RussianNika and the user now known as Loki who was formerly known as Grey Sanity had some issues. He was apparently stalking her cell and email and through other instant messaging sources sending nude pics of himself. She also sent him nude pics and both threatened to send them around unless they agreed to keep it hush hush. Problem is that RussianNika started a competing board to vigilant citizen called the outer circle and showed some of the members there pictures of Loki’s dick, lol, and it got around after one of the early members called Belligerent and Russian Nika also had some sort of bust up over money lent and it being used for drugs. RN sent Belligerent money for somethign and Belligerent wasted it on pot which made RN mad. At least that’s what’s being said right now.”
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no one told you anything, your making all this up and you were active in the Toby discussions months ago too so stop pretending that your all innocent and didn’t know about him way back when.
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I don’t remember ever conversing with you. You’re just an inactive member who’s jumping to VC for help, like the MK victim.
Never said we were besties smart ass I just said I had no issues you with and you know it. See how you’re twisting shit? Disinfo at it’s greatest.
MK….. No dear, just as you’re saying Vig is a disinfo agent I’m saying he’s not. Door swings both ways remember?
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Covert sexual reference there. MK Victim coz you’re acting like one
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What did you eat stupid for breakfast or something? Anyway, going back and forth with you is giving me a headache, cause I can’t argue with idiocy. I swear it’s like watching water drip. Point blank, you got banned because of YOUR fucked up behavior. GET OVER IT!
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And since when did I claim my ban was unfair? Oh wait, I wasn’t given the opportunity to protest despite the fact I did nothing. Oh and Cease and desist all contact with truthseer. This is your first and last warning or I will file a case in the legal courts
Oh wait, I’m not VC
So go back to your social and go make love to your VC
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You really have kids?
Wow, I feel sorry for them.
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That last comment was directed at KTG
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wow your such a looser
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To quote truthseer: “So go back to your social and go make love to your VC”
Me at KTG:
Yeah, you promiscuous whore.
It’s people like YOU who have killed the site along with the celeb worshipers, Lady Gaga fans, and what io called “MTV following teenagers”.
Just like Katarzyna you’re just another one of those horny bitches looking for some head.
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and you are a disgusting human being. You do realize we live in the same city, no? Well now you do. You are a moody little bitch who needs to be taught a lesson. Disgusting pieces of trash like you always do. Calling others whores? Obviously you’re a prudish child who has no friends besides her computer. Dumb cunt.
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Is that a threat, SHannon? How dare you even respond like that? You do realise you can be reported for harassment, Miss Darko
And if you don’t want to be called a whore, don’t do whore-like things
Shannon, get lost.
I’ll say what you said to me, “No one wants you here (ON THIS BLOG). Why don’t you just go top yourself?”
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Shannon Darko,
Let me tell you a little something, dearie.
People have to fall into a certain criteria for me. For example, I have this bleeding hatred for Cheers because she likes Ann Coulter. Cheers is usually a nice person, but because of that, I don’t approve of her and you know what happens.
Off to the hate list she goes.
I’ll admit, I like to mock people that are of a lower intellect than me when it comes to the subject of the elite.
If they don’t believe that this stuff even exist (such as the HausOfHerpies), I instantly mock them and call them “Kool-Aid drinking programmed sheeple”.
That’s why I’m so symapathetic towards truthseer, MysticShadow, mysticseeker, Aeon Flux, and femalepharoe.
Those five were banned for no reason. To me, they were framed for a crime they didn’t commit and yet the braindead zombies (such as that mindless bitch Shannon Darko) can get away with bloody murder. That’s why I was screeching at KTG.
Too me VC user fall into two catagories:
the “awakened” (intellectuals):
The awakened on VC consisted of truthseer, MysticShadow, mysticseeker, Aeon Flux, and femalepharoe, along with Let’s Glow, Chemicalchrist, IgnotumArcanus, Truthfairy, daisybuttercup, dull_flame, and thesameANA.
The “awakened” people I hold up in high respect and revere heavliy.
“programmed” (averages):
These are the brainwashed celebrity worshiping teenagers.
You fall into the last catagory.
Now fuck off and go play with your dildo or something.
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Proof of just how stupid, intolerant, and closed minded Katarzyna (or shall I say Russian Nika) and Shannon Darko are when it comes to other cultures.
They actually think America is the center of the universe:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8348
Katarzyna: “Too much British”
Shannon Darko at Katarzyna: “I swear they’re aliens, i can’t understand shit…”
There’s no doubt in my mind that the Brits think the same thing, but they’re sure as hell are not complaining.
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Cry me a river truth. That is all!
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And the disinfo agent leaves after dropping smoke bombs, trying to mislead a few down the dark path of the Vigilant Cult
Thou mightest think you have won this fight
With your clever deception, not might
Go back to VC and gloat, Miss KTGee
I hope I don again ever have to see
You or your face again coz thou art
Nothing more than a little bart
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For those who do not understand the agenda
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=60
“Some people just don’t deserve
the internet “
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I’m not down for public slander , but I am down for honesty.
While some may ultimately feel…upset by personal issues regarding the boards. I just want to clarify why this is relevant, and a few other caveats… I was not banned for creating an alt account. To date , I do not know why I was banned, and it can only be concluded that it was for commenting on another blog – a blog in which a forum moderator posted as a thread for the VC forum to laugh at.
Are the implications that “we can go here and comment but you can not” ? – just wanted to say that in case any one was confused by Truth seers comments. Also, I have no beef with Hexa or a moderator, I simply honestly detailed his attempts at attack – I do not care for him much.
The members who are coming in to defend the forum; are only defending VC – the person(s). No ONE is addressing the major issues that has come about in this conversation – censorship of information, baseless banning for questions, lies, and unaccountability in regards to communication?
Can anyone address those testimonies and evidence?
This is not simply about mods, and for me though tweet is…held up on me “working it out with Hexa” this is not the issue. I actually, like many others, have a fairly full life. The camaraderie of the boards were definitely a plus – but we were there in an attempt to DEPROGRAM ourselves. THAT’S why we came to the boards in the first place.
Please note that most of the people who have visited and quoted are ones that would like to stay in social forums playing this or that and “who would you do”? As a member with over 1000 posts and 20,000 views on threads, I was there to share my ideas and get feedback in an effort to DEPROGRAM myself and help others. As I’ve stated before , if you are not going to be …”vigilant” against the powers that be..WHY are you on the site? (hmmm?)
The question is if the site has an ulterior agenda.
If you do not believe in the NWO, Illuminati, mystery schools, etc – and would instead like to use the boards for a chat room – you do not have any credibility to even conclude what disinfo or misinfo is for you are not interested in receiving any information at all!
And KTG, as flattered as I am, please save it. I need no one professing about how much they liked me if they are not the least bit concerned that my contributions have been cast to the sea unexpectedly and without merit.
And, heres a question: How did anyone know that I, or Smashbrothers (whom I really liked and am shocked) was banned??? You see the deceit and confusion that happens with the clicks?
If anyone can look at my avatar and see “off line” – like I’m out for happy hour: How do people know I was banned without even the most active moderator knowing???? Food for thought….
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Well-said post. I am also in the “off line” in happy hour club.
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Good comment FP
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Enjoy your week every one. 🙂
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Check it out everyone. Above in one of Tweeterfists frantic responses he let’s it slip:
“2) I base the supposed Toby team as authentic because in their posts they said things that only the higher circle, so to speak, of Truth Files (The site Toby, myself, and a few others created) would know.”
So you’re saying you believe the Jones clan on here because you had the insider information they said you knew about?
Interesting admission of guilt you stupid fool.
I guess they are telling the truth then aren’t they and you are obviously a shill for Vigilant and know about his connections with the other Satanist groups supported by Henrik and the whole story as it unfolded is true and you’re all just here to do further damage control.
Wow, you are stupid. You just let it all out with that one FOOOOL!
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Well said FemalePharoe.
“No ONE is addressing the major issues that has come about in this conversation – censorship of information, baseless banning for questions, lies, and unaccountability in regards to communication?”
Exactly.
People in VC forum now are giving nothing but praise to the mods and VC having not yet found themselves banned for absolutely nothing. Yet they are quick to try and make us out to be some troublesome brood of people bitter that they got banned.
Like you said people don’t even know we got banned since all it says is “offline”.
I have sent messages to VC and messages to the mods all of which have being ignored, prior to and after been banned.
Anybody on the VC forum reading this, don’t be so quick to place us all in some group of troublemakers when you are absolutely blind to whats been happening in the forum for months. You either have to be blind, or be content with morons who’s idea of enlightened is showing your chest in a chat-room and being unable to speak about anything other than sex related threads or showing emotes.
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“Anybody on the VC forum reading this, don’t be so quick to place us all in some group of troublemakers when you are absolutely blind to whats been happening in the forum for months. ”
Yes –they seem to be lumping us all into the same category without knowing the details or story behind anything.The majority of them have no idea what has been going on behind the scenes in regards to censorship along with the unwarranted and unethical bannings. Most are just totally aloof to the overall ridiculousness of how the forum is being run.
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Let me guess, you’re part of the Jones crew too like the rest of us?
LOL
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Just in case people miss this, but I was banned about 3 months ago because I wasn’t towing the usual Christian part line. The one that labels anything that is not exactly as they interpret as Satanic and Luciferian. I don’t even believe in most of the Gnostic writings and even openly said I don’t adhere to Gnostic principles, but it didn’t matter. Truth wasn’t important to Tweeterfist, Daciple, Ladygagafan, Chainmaker and the rest of the puppets over there. I was labelled a Gnostic Luciferian, slandered, called a Toby and banned.
I don’t even know who the fuck this character is, if he was even around in the old boards, but I was a victim of their boogey man and I see others are as well.
Maybe what the “Jones” clan is dispelling here carries some truth. Maybe there was some sort of inner experiment going on with the Vigilant Citizen owners awareness and it went south and creating this Toby character, or slandering the one who played his role in that experiment was their way of doing damage control.
I can hardly see any other reason for resetting the boards because of a troll. That’s laughable.
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I wasn’t banned and I’m completely supporting you guys instead of VC.
People like femalepharoe, truthseer, Aeon Flux, MysticShadow, mysticseeker (the banned) along with IgnotumArcanus (left), Let’s Glow, Chemicalchrist (LG and CC are the perfect pair when it comes to information about Mind Control) and a couple of others contributed a ton of useful information to the site.
I’m frustrated because a good majority of the users I talk to the most are gone and being replaced by more and more annoying kids who are so ignorant to reality, it’s ridiculous.
I’m still staying on the site due to Let’s Glow and Chemicalchrist. If those two get banned, I’m leaving completely.
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This is my last post on my blog unless someone comes here and slanders me. Vigilant Citizen was a brilliant place to relax and learn the latest, Informative posts were plentiful. But now, after the departure of so many members, it’s become a popularity contest
Flix Kandish summed up the mindset beautifully
“For people who constantly complain about sexualisation in the media, you sure do have dirty minds.”
The people say one thing and do another, they complain, rightly, about the elite’s police state tactics while defending someone who basically does the same.
They act nice but in reality are leaden. I won’t take names here but the Muslims are mostly occultists in hiding. I hate to say it being a Muslim myself. But really, all of them want to astral project and think Hell and Heaven are imaginary. I’d say atheists not Muslims
The Christians were summed up by FP well enough
There are exceptions here and there but generally it’s the same
The only informative poster left if you don’t count Christian vs Religions posts is daisybuttercup.
Good Bye
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And by my I mean this.
So going to get flamed for this slip
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Tweeterfist exemplifies the sort of Christian that exists there
“Believe in my Christianity or you’re a Gnostic Satanic Luciferian Toby Worshipping MKULTRA hell bent unbiblical Hell Raiser!”
Yet this is Tweeterfist’s Christianity summed up by one nice tidy picture on his facebook page
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I got banned for being chainmaker LOL.
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Jesus Christ lol, someone’s impersonating me :L
To make matters easy any posts seeing here form here onwards are not me.
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What a pathetic tactic. Write disinfo then flee
http://vigilantcitizen.com/latestnews/the-25-rules-of-disinformation/
Guess VC’s rules are being followed
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Chaukeedaar,
With your blessings I’d be happy to write a guest post about the occult connections of the lion to your blog for all to see.
Let me know because I’m very resourceful and can put it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Fools like Tweeterfist will have a hard time denying what has already been said here.
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From my research, Henrik is from Sweden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Sweden
Not necessarily occult. Though a general article would be good
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Oh there’s definite occult connections to the Lion, and when you consider the whole persona of that character and him openly admitting to a fellowship with other satanists, as well as the obvious fact that death metal IS SATANIC TO BEGIN WITH. Who are we kidding. When Chaukeedaar responds, I’ll get an article written, if he wishes to publish it here.
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Hey NYOC,
Thanks for your kind offer!
I honestly would like to avoid the moment where I check your input and must decide that I do not want to post it – its just, I’m very picky and its quite seldom I take over some texts of others. So my suggestion is: Open your own blog at wordpress, its free, its done in a couple of minutes and I support you if you need technical advice. I already did this before for another commenter. For the sake of my bad conscience because of my answer to you I would even create a banner from the source pictures and texts you choose 😉
Or you surprise me with such a cool and founded article I HAVE to say yes 😉
Hope my answer does not hurt you, I just found that I go better in being honest from the start and then not twist around…
God bless, Chaukee
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Ok Chauk, here’s what I suggest. I’ll make it just a comment here since it pertains to what Just in Time said and what Henrik Ibsen accused him of later which Tweeterfist also chimed in on. You can draw your own conclusion but I’ve already read that you understand the masonic and occult connections to the Lion. If you think it’s good enough, I’ll make it into an article. Thanks for the suggestion to create my own wordpress page but I don’t think I’d have enough time to keep it busy,
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Hey NYOC,
Perfect, I’m looking forward to your comment and learn from you!
Good luck!
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Lol. Nevver a dull moment I see.
But , in any regard the site looks good. Congrats.(if your saying this is yours)
I’ve went through enough of your shananigans to not be offended in the least. You’re like a drunk cousin. I too will go. Thanks for your honesty
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It isn’t, lols, I was just saying I’ll be flamed for saying mine instead of his
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Lol disregard. Where are you posting that from?
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Posting this comment. My laptop
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So I got banned for being chainmaker. LOL
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Lolol.
Welcome. We have half off on (Guinness, blue moon, Sam Adams) tap and 3 dollar rails.
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Ƥπ‡Fζυ×:
So I got banned for being chainmaker. LOL
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Lol, it was only a matter of time..Welcome to happy hour!
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“Well, the people who made those comments about disinformation aren’t speaking, so what else can be said?” by – freetoday. (VC forum).
Maybe that’s because everyone has been banned or left already after weeks of trouble.
Personally speaking I never made accusations and others didnt either, I asked questions and got banned. Questioning both VC and the moderations about deleting threads and bans without reason.
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I was replying to those Vig was calling out asking for proof that he was a disinfo agent…that’s why I said speculation and animosity. If you’re not one of them then I wasn’t referring to you.
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Unban the speculators. They can’t register either thanks to a cease and desist notice
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I was replying to Vig’s question asking the people who are calling him a disinfo agent to point out where. That’s why I replied the way I did, if you weren’t one of them then I wasn’t referring to you.
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Then why is nobody on VC talking about people who got banned and silenced unnecessarily? quick to make us all sound like trolls who are trying to destroy the forum. Not so quick to defend people who thought the forum was supposed to have some form of freedom of speech. Not a place where you must have silent obedience of VC and the moderators or be silenced and banned.
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oop’s twice…my bad
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If you really have kids like you say, I feel sorry for them. Go take care of your kids loser instead of taking part in this drama since you’re obviously not one of the people that have been mistreated or slandered but a STUPID RETARD SHILL.
Can’t wait for you to call me Toby too
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It appears that my replies keep landing on top of your’s NYOC…. weird, but yes my reply to you is above Pluto’s.
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Ƥπ‡Fζυ×: http://imageftw.com/uploads/20111213/Screenshot.png
Typical behaviour by Vigilant if you confront him he’ll ban you. Apparently AeonFlux is Chainmaker or better yet he’s probably a Toby mult.
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Aeon you were banned for less then 5 minutes. You’re free to log in, you know Vig unbanned you.
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Layaa,
Do you have a fever? Is someone supposed to be appeased that once they calmly brought relevant issues to the table, in a thread that was allowed to stay open , they were ALL of a sudden (falsely) banned as an infamous forum member?
Are you serious?
Whoa….you guys are delusional at best.
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There are nude pictures of a former moderator of the forum’s penis who was stalking Russian Nika circulating. That part is true.
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You’re speaking of Loki/GreySanity, right? He has denied ever being romantically linked to RN. Don’t really know what to believe..
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Check it out everyone. Above in one of Tweeterfists frantic responses he let’s it slip:
“2) I base the supposed Toby team as authentic because in their posts they said things that only the higher circle, so to speak, of Truth Files (The site Toby, myself, and a few others created) would know.”
So you’re saying you believe the Jones clan on here because you had the insider information they said you knew about?
Interesting admission of guilt you stupid fool.
I guess they are telling the truth then aren’t they and you are obviously a shill for Vigilant and know about his connections with the other Satanist groups supported by Henrik and the whole story as it unfolded is true and you’re all just here to do further damage control.
Wow, you are stupid. You just let it all out with that one FOOOOL!
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Given that there is no “comment” button for me to us when I try to quote this is the only way I can reply.
on 13/12/2011 at 22:35 | Reply Not Your Ordinary Citizen
If you really have kids like you say, I feel sorry for them. Go take care of your kids loser instead of taking part in this drama since you’re obviously not one of the people that have been mistreated or slandered but a STUPID RETARD SHILL.
Can’t wait for you to call me Toby too
=========
Now, given that you’re not important enough to offend me I will not even bother to address your pathetic attempt to get a rise out of me by bringing my children in to this. I will say however that bringing kids in to this is relevant how exactly? In addition sweetie I have no issues with taking care of my kids, in fact when I’m HOME WITH MY KIDS I’m not even on the board lol. So let’s find another stone to throw at me k? Naw, I’m not gonna call ya Toby, I’m just gonna call you…….. yea, not that important for me to even think up an insulting name for ya…. Sorry to disappoint.
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I’m glad I’m not important enough to offend you while you’ve been spending the better part of the whole day offending anyone who doesn’t tug on Vig’s dick, like Silent Observer noted above.
Maybe it’s a hard concept for you shills and morons to understand that not everyone who has criticism for Vigilant is your friend Toby, but probably not. You have such a busy life that all you can think about is this character. Your kids will have a great upraising, I’m sure.
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I would like to pick up a comment by Thumpfer that is straight to the point:
“You are all wasting too much time on this stuff… this is what they are trying to do! You guys fight about something that really isnt important and gets you off tracks of the truth! YES VC isnt what its seems to be, spread that and move on!”
First thing: Why don’t you people who realized that the VC boards are run in a fashist manner group together, create a free forum dedicated to all the topics that are important to us? There are so many brilliant minds I read here, somebody must have the skills to create a decent design, another one comes up with a good branding (like “THE END OF DISINFORMATION – The Conspiracy Forum that is run by real humans”), then you agree on your forum rules and elect a core moderation team. The time has ended where mankind always looks for another leader to whom you can look up, who does the thinking and the decisions (like the VC crew) – either we become cooperative leaders ourselves or the shit continues to go down like it does right now around the world. Just my 2c.
Second thing: The kids here identifying so desperately with their online identity should really think about getting a week offline, like for reading a real book or have a long walk in nature. “Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now” would be my suggestion for a reading as it might learn you to identify less with your outer life but with your inner space, what you truly are. It personally helped me a lot to detach from some of my status thinking and identification with the things on the outside, opinions included! YOU GUYS ARE NOT YOUR NICKNAMES, nor the texts you are writing online, nor you being better, smarter, more intelligent than another person. You all have the potential to be beautiful beings, just shut that stupid box in front of you down and go to the street out there, somebody might need a smile or a nice word or two. We all want to change the world, we just don’t by spamming my comments section with weepy accusations (so thats the egoistic part of my advice 😉 ). So much for the sermon.
Plus: I woun’t go through hundreds of these boring comments for approval for many more days, there might come the moment when I close the comments section of this article. Nothing hostile, its just that my time is too precious for me.
Peace to all of you, Chaukee
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Chauk, they’ve already identified you as “Toby”, KTG especially. You might as well start signing with your real name, the mystery has been solved, lol.
On a serious topic, read my comment. If you’d like for me to create a guest blog post on the occult connections of the lion let me know, I’ll be happy to do so.
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Well said!
Thank you for bringing it back. As you’ve been so positive and patient ill be sure to check into your site to learn and contribute from time to time.
🙂
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Hey dear femalepharoe,
Thank you, your opinion already means a lot to me! Its seldom I come along people who think so precisely and put down the words like with a scalpel! I really wish I could express myself like you do, but hey, this ain’t my first language 😉
I’m looking forward to read and learn from YOU!
Namaste, Chaukee
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Chaukee you are probably not keeping up with all the comments being made here but above one named Tweeterfist accurately accounted for the last forum uprising in March of 2011 where there was termed a mass exodus because of some users who formed their own board. From that two other boards were formed too. I’m not going to give any more details because then someone might call me Toby and that man was nuts. There were threats made to me and it’s true that another moderator (not Toby, though Toby is a crazed nutter) was stalking me with pictures of his penis. I’ve sent those around to people who can identify this is true so I don’t expect him to be coming around here anytime soon.
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This is so ridiculous. I honestly can’t tell who is real in these comments. Whoever is responsible must have quite a lot of time on their hands. Pitiful.
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Maybe it’s just that the cat is out of the bag now, per the first comment on this blog post above, and there are a whole lot of shills making noise amongst some people who have been done wrong by? Maybe it’s not just one person like you’re being conditioned to believe, you silly twit?
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Judging by the defensive nature of your comment, I’ve hit a nerve. Oh and nice, typical conspiracy theorist response. This is why no one takes us seriously. You simply can’t win an argument by saying “that’s what you’ve been conditioned to believe”. Is this really where every conversation goes nowadays? “Because you don’t agree with me, your opinion is merely conditioning, good day sir.” Ridiculous. Since you decided to call me a silly twit I can assume that you might be the person making fake comments? Or if you are right about it being multiple people I would assume one would be you. Your name is fitting, ordinary members of society don’t waste their time fabricating comments on a blog. Unless you’ve been conditioned to believe it’s normal? GASP.
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You may assume it’s defensive or that your “hit a nerve” and ignore that it’s rather obvious that there are a lot of different individuals here, so your comment “whoever is responsible must have a quite a lot of time on their hands” certainly indicates that you lack the ability to be observe reality and are instead a sheeple.
“ordinary people don’t waste time fabricating comments on a blog”
What are the fabrications? All I know is that this Toby character is possible a fabrication since I was banned for being him at the VC website 3 months ago and I know for sure I am not him. Then I see the pattern repeating itself on this blog and others, as well as on the site again.
Open your eyes, not everyone who disagree’s with Vigilant or is not your typical Bible thumping Christian is a “Toby!”
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Funny enough, I remember that when I first joined the site a couple of people assumed I was Russian Nika.
I pretty sure by now those morons most certainly know I’m not her.
She’s way too much of a slut to be me.
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It’s not letting me reply directly to you.. but yes this is directed at you. It’s rather obvious to me that while there are different people commenting, a large portion of the comments are merely VC users being impersonated. The ratio of actual people to impostors is astonishing to me. I can tell based off of typing style.
Again, typical conspiracy theorist response. Calling me a sheeple when I don’t agree with you. Cool. I clearly have the capacity to observe which is how I noticed slight discrepancies in the comments. Just because I’m not anti-vig, that doesn’t make me a fucking sheeple.
As for the fabrications I already explained. Several VC users have even made threads about how they were being impersonated on a blog. So those are clearly fakes.
I’m not here as a vigilant citizen advocate. I honestly could care less. I’m just saying it’s a little disturbing that someone is wasting their time pretending to be other people on an irrelevant blog.
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@ Raelyn34
Are you really going to play that stupid calling me a typical conspiracy theorist when the VC website is designed for the TYPICAL CONSPIRACY THEORIST MINDSET and you are one of it’s regular users?
If you don’t like being called stupid, don’t act like it.
I’m not calling you sheeple for not agreeing with me because I’ve said many things on this blog and you’ve not been specifically disagreeing with any one of them. I called you a stupid sheeple because your response was designed to appear to promote the idea that one person is responsible for all of this when that is clearly not the case.
Say something stupid and being told it’s stupid is just what it is.
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The transformation of sheeple back into sheeple…
Who knew it was possible “in the know”?
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Aeon email me at : silentobservervcATyahoo The offers open for anyone else as well
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why were you pretending to be aeon here and then below you admit to being him? Hmmmm…..busted again
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A traitor has just been spoted:
“VC just do what you do, people always gonna judge, just keep at what you do”
GatecrasherOne, I thought you were on our side.
YOU were the one who helped contribute to the “Who is” thread along with me, and the now banned MysticShadow and mysticseeker, trying to help us figure out who Mitch Joel was.
Now you turn around and defend VC?
I swear this “GatecrasherOne” guy is full of double standards.
He probably took part in that thread to get them two banned intentionally.
I wouldn’t doubt it if he really did.
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Forgot the link to prove my point:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=40
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A traitor? Go outside and breath you nutjob, seriously that post is pathetic.
I posted that just as a comment, i couldn’t give two fucks what he did, nor do i give a shit about this childish drama.
There’s a real world outside btw, maybe a walk in the park would tear you away from causing drama and pointing fingers at a fucking monitor all day and night.
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Resorting to insults, Andy? Thought you were cooler than that
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=70
Katarzyna: “Let’s be real, they’re just jealous of Vigilant and what he’s accomplished. That’s why no one has any sources or anything to back up their claims. So sad we have so much negativity and so many haters in the world.”
Or maybe all the opposition has been banned and only his brain-dead cheerleaders are posting..
Are these people for real?
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Yes it’s a sign of the dumbed down society we live in. The operators at the Vigilant Citizen website are laughing all the way to the bank.
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“Cheers” is also one of VC’s biggest supporters.
She happens to be a huge follower of Ann Coulter.
Ann Coulter is the same person that said “Radiation is good for you.” when asked about Fukushima.
Ann Coulter:
“At some level–much higher than the minimums set by the U.S. government–radiation is good for you,”
truthseer, me, amne1984 (Astral Gemini_1984), 4FT3RM4TH, and couple of other users tried to talk some sense into “Cheers”, but she just tried to slander us and make us look stupid when she’s the one who’s a stupid bitch.
Don’t believe me, here’s proof:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4075&start=20
Cheers on Ann Coulter:
“I absolutely adore her.
Much of what she says is ‘tongue in cheek’-
Those who dislike her, however, will not present her commentary that way-
They indignantly insist that she is ‘totally serious’-
She is the first to admit that much of what she says is to get a rise of out liberals.
And they never, ever let her down.”
Would YOU take someone like “Cheers” seriously?
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Can anyone here recommend some good forums that are the real deal? Ones without the sex conversations and the celebrity worship?
VC is starting to bore me to death and I want to move on with my life.
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Icke Forums
Godlike Productions
Abovetopsecret
All three have alot more quality then the general bullshit being spewed out on VC anyways.
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Thanks for the links.
Funny enough VC once said that Above Top Secret was disinfo.
Have you ever noticed how all of these types of sites always throw the term “disinfo” at each other like boomerangs?
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They’re competing for the same users, lol.
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on 13/12/2011 at 22:56 | Reply Not Your Ordinary Citizen
I’m glad I’m not important enough to offend you while you’ve been spending the better part of the whole day offending anyone who doesn’t tug on Vig’s dick, like Silent Observer noted above.
Maybe it’s a hard concept for you shills and morons to understand that not everyone who has criticism for Vigilant is your friend Toby, but probably not. You have such a busy life that all you can think about is this character. Your kids will have a great upraising, I’m sure.
=============================
Aww yes, this is the best he can do…. Sorry need bigger stones small potatos.
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translation; you’re too stupid to come up with something relevant to respond.
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Looks like someone hit a nerve with “Gatecrasher” on VC…. He claims that we are the ones causing “internet drama” when we merely point out the major flaws in the leadership on VC, and the possible shady operations behind the forum. HE even participated in the thread questioning VC and told me to “keep looking,” but suddenly his tune has changed. I wonder if he would feel the same if he was banned and treated unfairly as well? Gatecrasher if you are reading this, why not come over to this blog to tell us all how you really feel about us? Or are you too afraid of a response that would knock you down a few pegs? We have a pretty good excuse as to why we will not trotter over to VC (Guess what, we’ve been banned!), what excuse do you have for not coming over here and making your rant directly towards us? You’re the one who appears quite emotionally investesd in your rant against us “crackpots” (which is what you’ve so nicely termed us), so who is really bringing the dramatics here?
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In response to GatecrasherOne: No this is not a “bait,” but keep in mind that YOU were the one who directed a message at us from the safety of the VC forum. You also chose to paint us all with the same brush by dismissing us as “crackpots,” meanwhile ignoring our legitimate concerns regarding the issues we’ve experienced on the forum –so much for being impartial, huh? Voicing ones displeasure over unfairness and ones suspicions about the forum, is not being “engrossed in internet drama” –it is simply expressing how you feel about a situation.
“Everyone needs to relax and realize how trivial this is in the grand scheme of things.” -GatecrasherOne
I’m quite certain that we’re all aware of that on here, so you really don’t need to be so condescending…being aware of that however, doesn’t mean that we cannot make how we feel known, after all, we weren’t given that chance on the forum since we were so quickly silenced….
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As long as no one within their social clique is banned it’s all good they aren’t really here for information anyways just for their sex threads and as long as Vigilant continues to let them do so he is never capable if being a disinformational media pawn. They shouldn’t call it “Vigilant” Citizens a more befitting name would be the “Dumbed-down Sheeple” Citizens.
This figure and his forum is a joke as well as a elite think tank operation for returning the sheeple back into the sheeple.
The one they call vigilant citizen barely scratches the surface of the current state affairs rather his purpose is to keep the name Gaga relevant.
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Whelp, can’t remember when I had more fun but it’s time to go home now, you know, take care of my kids….. THAT WAS FOR YOU NYOC 😛
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You have kids and are taking part in net forum drama’s. You’re a good mother 😉
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rofl.
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Lord help us if she has any kids.
They probably get to particpate in her homemade porn movies and get to watch them with her when they’re done.
Nothing like “quality” family time in the KTG house.
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Here’s what KisstheGyrl said just yesterday:
“Lately I’ve been feeling kinda numb inside, sometimes unhappy, sometimes very irritated, then sometimes I just feel nothing at all. I try to pray but it’s like my heart isn’t in to it or something. Also, eventhough I do what I have to to take care of my children I hadn’t been able to really give them all of the love that they deserve, this of course kills me. I really don’t know what to do at this point, I’m know there has to be a change somewhere and for me I know it begins with my relationship with God.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8515&sid=bcf7ed54ac302a3c59e68eb62827d37d
Take special note of the “I hadn’t been able to really give them all of the love that they deserve…”
and
“I’ve been feeling kinda numb inside, sometimes unhappy, sometimes very irritated.”
Yeah well girl, maybe you should take a step back from forum drama’s, being a dumb sheeple and do what you’ve been asking people to pray for you to do and give your kids more love and attention?
Seems the answer is right in front of your face Mommy!
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“Yeah well girl, maybe you should take a step back from forum drama’s, being a dumb sheeple and do what you’ve been asking people to pray for you to do and give your kids more love and attention?”
He’s right.
Instead of talking about and focusing most of your life around your latest sex partners and your love of porn, why don’t you pay more attention to your own children?
There’s more to life than sex and porn, you know
This is one of the reason why society is so messed up. Most parents these days care more their sex lives and pointless material posessions than they worry about their own children. When these children grow up they become just as careless as their parents and their offspring will suffer the same terrible fate. The cycle just repeats all over again.
Take my advice.
I’m sure your children will thank you for this someday when they get older.
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**stifles laughter**
now ayaka, that’s not right.
Please respect this ..*giggles* gentlemens forums guys. The sheeple are delusional, and we have to be honest with ourselves that we were once as naive as they.
Also , I just want to say , that of all the people coming here. NO ONE can discredit my contribution to the forums – even stating that they “enjoyed me there” yet no one is concerned for the unfounded banning.
Is that not crazy?
Lets respect Chaukeedaar and his page.
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Weird, I couldn’t see all of replies at work, weird. Anyway, not that I owe anyone any explanations but real life and internet banter are very separate for me. Which is why I did NOT detail why I was requesting prayer. Now, having said that, AYAKA, you know you are really in no mental position to offer ANYONE advice. You what was discussed between the two of us and it will remain there. Mostly I do engage in racey antics and banter, For me it speeds my day up. DOES’T make it true, for this reason you little WHORE comment (s) doesn’t bother me in the least, waisted efforts if you ask me but I digress. Aside from my lol’s when you needed someone to vent I was there to listen when I really didn’t have to give a fuck. I think that in it’s self shows my “true” character so can miss me with that shit AYAKA, cause it isn’t flying with me. You wobble bandwagon any and everyone to feel accepted or paid attention to. Yet you have the balls t call me a whore? Comming from the “attention whore ” BIG FAT FAIL doll.
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KTG honey, please quit while you’re ahead girl. It was only two days ago you expressed your depression and admitted you weren’t giving your kids the love and attention they needed. I’m not trying to make light of this, and I don’t know about the sex discussions you have at the site because I only checked in again recently and don’t follow any particular user but noticed your cry for help. Your participation in the forums isn’t going to lift your depression or guilt. Stop playing around in the net kiddy games, no one banned you for no reason or because your view of Christianity wasn’t the same as theirs. No one called you Toby, Chainmaker or whatever name they reserve for those who don’t tow their party line. You have no business being here. You have a responsibility to your kids and to yourself. Get out of the forums for a while and attend to your real life. Maybe that will lift this cloud of misery
““I’ve been feeling kinda numb inside, sometimes unhappy, sometimes very irritated.”
Have a good day.
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@Ayaka, in response to you being accused of being “Russian Nika” when you first arrive on the forums, that’s funny because VC (or the lobotomized kid brother that he gets to answer his emails for him), accused me of being that person as well. In fact, he so eloquently replied to my email with the following two words: “Russian Nika.” I suppose the children learn from their father…
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It seems that just about every user that puts out too much information automaticaly has the “Toby”, “Chainmaker”, or “Russian Nika” labels slapped on them.
It’s more of an excuse to ban people if anything.
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Another VC supporter: Pollyann
Her signature has been bothering me for while.
It’s:
“I’m a Christian first, and a mean spirited, bigoted conservative second, and don’t you ever forget it.”
Hey wait a minute, isn’t this going aganst one of VC’s “rules” which is supposed to be:
“2. Outright hate speech is not permitted at any time. Hateful or disrespectful comments towards a religion, a race or a culture will not be tolerated. Debate is welcome as long as it stays respectful.”
Isn’t a “bigot” someone who spews nothing but hatred toward other religions, races, and cultures?
Bigot:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
“a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance”
How come she isn’t banned yet?
I smell a rat here.
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RESPECT his page! please.
I’ll let you all know when i accept the invite from Hexa. we can talk in this so called “tiny chat” contraption .
…it will be….fun.
Femalepharoe@hotmail.com for anyone interested.
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VC user: FlixKandish
Pretty much the Satanic/Atheist version of Chainmaker yet her ex mod label has given her the right to troll the religious forum to her heart’s content I love the kind of crooked moderation VC has constructed.
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Btw I love how this retarded frum is only alive to try to smear us all as “Toby”.
Toby has long gone from those forums if he has ever existed to think that anyone opposing would be labeled such is laughable in the least.
This is the same type of smear antics that the elite use on the the truthers in the real world.
Vigilant Citizen forum members (social cheerleaders etc.) are now officially the sheeple within the underground.
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It is quite shocking, that they all are frankly insulting and “higher than thou” attitudes. Before even looking at who we are, we are all assumed to be “trolls” “screwballs” “toby” “lunes”. They think we are here to cause problems, but the problem was THERE! we just pointed it out and got banned for our troubles it seems.
Kids in the forum there trying to act higher than the situation when they don’t even know whats happened, in these MULTIPLE INDIVIDUAL CASES. People like Taipy for example another who is quick to be condescending and insulting when she hasn’t got a clue about any of this. Let alone individual cases of bans. That goes for the rest of you on VC DO NOT assume we are all trolls who know eachother, we are here only because we were banned with no chance to speak about it.
A sham VC “lets clear this up” thread is not going to clear anything up when anybody who had anything to say is banned. People who have gone in under a new name obviously have 0 posts and are assumed to be “trolls” right off the bat. It’s a case of you people in the forum chasing out those who are seeing and exposing injustices in the forum without you even realizing it because you’re so far up the back passages of the moderators and VC that you can’t see right from wrong.
Nobody deserves to get banned without any form of warning or any chance to explain, nobody should have posts and threads deleted that do not break any rules or regulations of the forum. Yet this is how people like Hartwell operate, “Read the rules, if you have a problem with the moderation, don’t post.” ..You see I had a problem with the moderators because they were banning everybody for no reason! and they do not EVER respond to questions sent the proper way. Raise an issue in a calm and polite way and its “goodbye”. That ban message is basically like saying “If you don’t like the government, tough sh– we’re running the show”.
If the ban/event logs were ever looked at this would be plain to see, nobody gets warnings and a lot never broke any rules.
MysticShadow.
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JustJess- “I agree 100%. Questioning things is fine but attacking ppl especially behind their backs is pathetic and shouldnt be tolerated.”
This is what you do when you call us all “Toby” get over yourself for real. These individuals are all on their high-horse.
For those of you who actually are there for educational purposes I openly invite you to leave that joke of a forum/ sinking ship and join the Icke forums.
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aeonfluxvc@yahoo.com — Send your hatemail there.
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I was never called Toby while I was on there but I hardly argued in religion or music sections. I see in the thread there now I’m being called Toby, cant say I didn’t see it coming. They’re saying Chaukee’s and Yoy50’s blogs are Toby’s too. I guess if the guy has a research crew and 50 employee’s he could pull this off, hahaha, but I doubt it. Probably just themselves making up forum drama to turn on visitors.
Here’s what I know so far,
Russian Nika is that Kataazyna girl and part of the reason the old board went down was because Grey Sanity was sending nude pics of his shlong to her and it started to freak her out but because she sent pictures of her tits and other regions to him they called a truce, except she never honored it and sent it to her outer circle crew of Andy, Belligerent and Layaamani.
Problems happened when their little internal forum drama happened at the outer circle forum due to Russian Nika having a problem with Belligerent spending the money she sent to her on weed.
Grey Sanity and Russian Nika were both mods on the old forums before the big reset happened.
At the same time I’m told some of the Christians led by Tweeterfist and the now infamous Toby left and made their own forums and something went wrong there and they all went back to VC.
Before they first left VC, Henrik, Daciple, Tweeterfist, Toby and crew all supposedly had bad things to say about VC but now the first three are kissing his butt. Something weird going on there. It shows how flimsy their character is all except for this Toby guy who’s hated all around for whatever reasons they aren’t saying at this time.
Either the whole thing is a big fake and experiment like the Jones people here have said or there was a bigger bust up than anyone is letting on and it’s being leaked out little by little. I honestly wouldn’t put it that far out that the whole thing was a big social experiment and the VC owners were and still are a part of it. That sounds more than a little plausible in my mind.
If not, think about it this Tweeterfist and his gang initially turn on VC and go with this Toby character to start a forum. Then they turn on Toby and go back to VC.
Talk about flimsy character.
If that story is true and they all had reason to believe VC was really a bad ass and is now back there kissing his ass and doing all his dirty business, how much does that question their moral character and integrity?
In this scenario they would have none.
Either that or there’s more than meets the eye and these Jones guys here who claim to have invented Toby are telling part of the truth. That’s it really though right? The truth is a little bit here and there.
So these Jones characters come here and start tying the strings together and leave. Daciple, Tweeterfist and Henrik all make an appearance and now they’re gone too. Each of them allude to knowing something about this incident and who VC are, so there’s obviously something to it.
I don’t know if all the people being called Toby on the forums are really this guy or guys or not, but I’ve seen it happen many times and it’s still going on as everyone can see. I’ve been called Toby too now, and I guess they think it will scare people into silence or something?
hahahahahaha
Back to the first story, Belligerent betrayed Russian Nike/ Kataazyna who registered at the VC forums on Nov 1st and claims to have never been there before but has a serious hate on for this Toby character in the damage control thread started by VC and is also one of the VC butt kissers.
Belligerent showed some people the pictures of Grey Sanity’s little mosquito bite (that’s the rumor) and so on and so on and so on.
Some members inside the VC website know about this and have some of the pictures too. The member known as Grey Sanity is now called Loki. He usually participates in threads about drama too, hardly says anything important otherwise.
Loki is threatening to send nude pictures of RussianNika/Kataazyna around if it keeps escalating.
The few people who know this story have been told to keep a wrapper on it because both Grey Sanity/Loki and Russian Nike/Kataazyna have asked them all the keep it sealed because they’re afraid nude pics of them are going to be circulating the webs and who knows, maybe even make it here.
Here’s a moral lesson, don’t send nude pics of yourselves out into the air waves you stupid idiots. If there isn’t enough porn out there you think sending nude pics of yourself is exciting? Look at all the trouble it’s getting you into, dummies.
Now that’s some great drama build up!!
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I must say, that was quite an interesting read. I like the way you told it as well. I appreciate you sharing some of this background info.
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Well said Gyro, Thanks for letting us know the actual events that have happened in the past. I find is ridiculous and no wonder we got the impression of a circus from the start.. And a scandal of idiots sending pictures, and funny no lessons learnt it seems since the person in question is perhaps the biggest starter of sex related threads.
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Interesting..thanks for clearing that up
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more lies±±
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Some say VC is http://www.MitchJoelSpeaks.com ? Look at this guys bio at on linkin
Mitch Joel’s Summary
When Google wanted to explain online marketing to the top brands in the world, they brought Mitch Joel to the Googleplex in Mountain View, California. Marketing Magazine dubbed him the “Rock Star of Digital Marketing” and called him, “one of North America’s leading digital visionaries.” In 2006 he was named one of the most influential authorities on Blog Marketing in the world. Mitch Joel is President of Twist Image – an award-winning Digital Marketing and Communications agency (although he prefers the title, Media Hacker). In 2008, Mitch was named Canada’s Most Influential Male in Social Media, one of the top 100 online marketers in the world, and was awarded the highly prestigious Canada’s Top 40 Under 40. Most recently, Mitch was named one of iMedia’s 25 Internet Marketing Leaders and Innovators in the world. Marketing Magazine has named Twist Image one of the Top 10 agencies in Canada for two years running. Joel is the Vice-Chair of the Canadian Marketing Association. He is also a former Board Member of the Interactive Advertising Bureau of Canada. Joel speaks frequently to diverse groups like Wal-Mart, Starbucks, Microsoft, Procter and Gamble, Hewlett Packard, and has shared the stage with Bill Clinton, Richard Branson, Malcolm Gladwell, Anthony Robbins and Dr. Phil. Joel is frequently called upon to be a subject matter expert for Huffington Post, BusinessWeek, Fast Company, Marketing Magazine, Profit, Strategy, Money, The Globe & Mail and many other media outlets. His newspaper business column, New Business – Six Pixels of Separation, runs bi-monthly in both The Montreal Gazette and Vancouver Sun. His first book, Six Pixels of Separation (published by Grand Central Publishing – Hachette Book Group), named after his successful Blog and Podcast is a business and marketing bestseller.
Specialties
digital marketing, interactive advertising, Web 2.0, Blogs, Blogging, digital strategies, branding, marketing, business books, public speaker, journalism, publishing, search engine strategy, email marketing, online advertising, advertising, PodCamp, BarCamp, DemoCamp and all sorts of Unconferences.
http://www.twistimage.com/speaking/
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Hey “confused” and Gyro,
Thanks for your objective, non-drama contributions, really enyoied it!
Mitch Joel and “SIX Pixels of Separation”? How obvious 😉
How about another SIX Pixels of Deception and SIX Pixels of Profit?
He actually looks like a rather nice guy to me on this video on twistimage.com – on the surface (ignoring the all seeing eye in his logo/picture). But the stuff he is talking clearly shows he has no conscience but is a pure and occult business drone. Wonder why such a guy runs Vigilant Citizen?
“Here is the creaziest part though: A negative review converts more effectively to a sale than a positive review”.
Cheers, Chaukee
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This is the real truthseer. The above one is fake
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Lies.
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“Aeon is not banned. He is free to log whenever he likes and ask VC his questions.”
Lol aiight that’s why i’m IPbanned…rofl w/e.
I’m tired of VC….waste of energy.
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Which account were you IP banned on Aeon?
One of the new ones you made after requesting your original account be deleted?
Ƥπ.Fζυ×, Aeon, or Lola?
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what do you not understand by ip banned?
I can’t even view the forums.
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Oh I skim read.Apologies.
Can you say roughly at what time you were supposedly IP banned?
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Don’t even bother unbanning me it’s all good.
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“I’m tired of VC….waste of energy.”
I don’t blame you one bit, Aeon.
I just left that chaotic nightmare, yesterday.
There was really no point in trying to get those MTV-teenagers to wake up and realize that YES, there is indeed a shadow government that happens to control and carefully orchestrate EVERYTHING. Including the celebrities that these kids happen to love so dearly.
I swear a good 90% of the users on that site at the current moment don’t even believe that the elite/shadow government even exist, nor do they even care to know about it. No matter how much information I have gathered and posted on that site, they still didn’t get it.
I served as a link directory on that site for a reason. My main goal was to get these kids to WAKE UP, STOP obsessing over celebrities, and get on out there and LOOK for the information themselves.
There are a TON of websites scattered all throughout the web that specialize in the subject on the elite/illuminati/shadow government that I’m sure those kids could have learned a good deal from. However, they just ignored it and went back to their usual celebrity worship.
To sum it up in a simple sentence, those kids didn’t want know anything and they just didn’t CARE to learn.
I figured I just had to stop sometime soon because there really was no point in trying to convince these celebrity-worshiping teens otherwise. I was just wasting my time with them.
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Hey I wonder why after I saw Tweeterfist’s, the VC lap dog’s facebook page with all the satanic messages, porn, drug promotion and racist images, he is no longer posting here?
I was totally wanting to have follow up discussions with him. Namely about these matters which he may have overlooked because there are nearly 400 comments now
I’ll repaste them here because I know he’ll be checking this blog often today, especially since he’s unemployed.
Tweeterfist,
“Nah, the Lion isn’t a Biblical symbol either, right?
The rest of fabrication there is well written. You’ve got disinformation locked down for the ignorant of mind
”So scanime.com huh?
Scanime? Like Scan I Me? Scan Me? Scam Me? all out in the open aye folks?”
XDDDDD
Oh so funny, but sad that some here will actually consider that brilliant.”
on 13/12/2011 at 21:43 Not Your Ordinary Citizen
“Seriously idiot?
It’s right in front of your eyes but you’ve been so blinded by them whispering in your ears, obviously. You are a total mind controlled puppet and you didn’t even need anything crazy to turn your mind over to them. Just a stupid high school kid who did too many drugs, has holes in his consciousness and believes any wild conspiracy told to him.
Ooogey Boogey Man, I must be big bad Toby too, ROTFL!!
“C.S. Lewis on the other hand, who wrote the books of Narnia, another fantasy world, used a Lion God (also a symbol for the “God” of the Illuminati – Satan/Lucifer). This Lion God he called Aslan, compared to the Brotherhood’s “Asalam” (see below). ”
http://www.illuminati-news.com/tolkien-occult.htm
The Lion is an occult symbol Tweeterfist. Get your head on straight!
Do you need more examples?”
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Tweeterfist
“You bro, I’m an alt of a shill of a Monarch programmed Canadian boy. Rotten kids ruined my fun.
”See, now he’s joking about it to desensitize us of this and pass our theories off as jokes.”
Ya bro, the Jesuits trained me and I got buddies in the Malta and Opus Dei that’ll fuck your shit son.
”SEE? AGAIN!”
Head asplode, gg”
on 14/12/2011 at 00:34 Not Your Ordinary Citizen
” No just another victim of meth, coke, pot amongst other cocktails designed to numb your head, put holes in your consciousness and bypass your critical thinking faculties so you believe everything you are told like a good little lap dog while at the same time believing that you are in control of your mind. You’re the perfect slave and no Monarch programming needed.”
Logan, where’d you go? Still cleaning your facebook page? 😉
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Logan says I bend evidence just because I showed people his facebook page and the album where he was having a laugh at racism, and mentally/physically handicapped people, making fun of aids and those sick with the disease, promoting drugs and pornography and showing us what he really believed Christianity to be like. Logan uses the word evidence because it sounds cool to him. It makes him think he’s being all scientist like and all, you know like being real and valid, not just dumb and stupid.
Here’s Logan’s idea of evidence:
“the world is only 10,000 years old and carbon dating has holes in it”
ROTFL
Tweeterfist/Logan says, “Third, I was chosen as a moderator [at VC] because I was a long time and decent poster. Again, ”YOU WORK AT FED RESERVE? YOU EVIL ZIONIST SCUM. KILL.”
But
“2) I base the supposed Toby team as authentic because in their posts they said things that only the higher circle, so to speak, of Truth Files (The site Toby, myself, and a few others created) would know.”
So you’re saying you believe the Jones clan on here because you had the insider information they claimed that you knew about?
Interesting admission of guilt you stupid fool.
I guess they are telling the truth then aren’t they and you are obviously a shill for Vigilant and know about his connections with the other Satanist groups supported by Henrik and the whole story as it unfolded is true and you’re all just here to do further damage control.
Wow, you are stupid. You just let it all out with that one FOOOOL!
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Check out the problem/eaction/solution being carried out by VC’s team: Daciple/VC himself/Henrik, as we speak
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=130
Henrik Ryosa, obviously that’s you and obviously by earlier comments here you were once present here as Ibsen, is that right?
I see you wanted to ask me some questions directly and are aware that I am reading that thread
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=120
Why don’t you just come back here and ask me whatever you want? Henrik. Or are we going to be responding to each other on the respective outlets here and there?
Henrik you have under 30 posts. If someone does a search they find that most of them are in damage control threads as has already been accurately pointed out here. Taking that into consideration and all that has been said here, there is no reason to doubt that you and VC work together, especially that you two have the same tastes in music, are in the same line of business and often support each others views if not directly, but indirectly.
There’s a good dose of spin going on in there. I’d love to analyze it all in detail, alas sadly I don’t have the time at the moment. Check back regularly and maybe I’ll get around to it.
Here’s a few obvious points to consider though, you are heavily into satanic music, death metal, and have death metal symbolism scattered throughout your various sites and in your various productions, including the masonic lion. Your spin will only affect those who already have been taken in by your lies, not others who have their eyes wide open.
I didn’t know of you or your affiliation to VC until someone told me about this site.
Previous to that all I knew was what I experienced there and that was anyone who presented a different idea of Christianity to the popular one on the boards was targeted, trolled, labelled and eliminated as Toby. That happened to me, and it’s happened here again and to others as I have come to learn.
The three big culprits were Daciple, Chainmaker, Tweeterfist and there were a few others that echoed the same belief IIRC.
I was shocked.
I even emailed VC and got no response about it.
I left and didn’t think twice about it until recently when I checked the boards again and saw that it was happening to another member.
It prompted me to do a google search on Vigilant Citizen and I found this site. Whether you believe any of that or not, doesn’t matter to me. What I see happening to others, happened to me. For that reason I have more than just a little inkling of suspicion to believe that all being said about you characters is true.
You and VC are obviously the more intelligent of the three with Daciple coming a far third. That might be the idea though.
I did read this of him now though and it was an instant face palm because of the accusations he and his gang made about me a few months back
“An example is, if one believes that there is no such thing as Satan as in an actual Entity who fell from Heaven and is leading a War against God with the hope to overthrow the Throne and take over the World, instead believing that Satan is simply the symbolic representation of mans lower primal self, then this is going to affect every single solitary view when it comes to Luciferian Ideologies. This will utterly affect how one perceives and presents information. This will cause a bias in the authors writings, it will also possibly cause reactions against people stating that that Ideology is incorrect.”
What you don’t get Daciple, or probably do since you’re an active participant in this dialectic, is that coming from an opposite point of view will equally cause a bias in the authors writing, and that includes YOUR WRITING. Everyone’s point of view causes them to write from that perspective. That perspective can be considered a bias. The word bias carries a negative connotation. The thing is, everyone has it in one form or another.
Special Note to you Daciple, that doesn’t mean I necessarily subscribe to the belief that Satan is or is not an actual entity. It’s just pointing out that the same condition applies to you whether you actually get it or not.
VC’s response is interesting, it’s the antithesis of what you wrote essentially labeling you as a wanna be shepherd. It’s accurate of course. Then Henrik comes and synthesizes it all by merging the two alternative points of view together.
Bravo!
How long have you kooks been at this game on the forum anyway?
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I am interested to know what people who still post on VC think of the information that VC is Mitch Joel based on the info posted above.
I am also wondering why the heck femalepharoe was banned. Femalepharoe posted threads on a variety of topics and was an active poster with a fresh perspective. This concerns me greatly. Was she banned based off of multiple issues or just one bad post?
One last thing confusing me is the new post on VC
( http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521 )
If he intends for people to respond, how can they when they have probably been banned? Why post a thread like that after banning the “questioners”?
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=120
I would expect nothing less from you Henrik Ibsen or Ryosa to call the investigation of fake Christian “bands” who promote satanic idea’s and music a “distraction”.
“you will probably want to touch a little on the occult connections of the following list of bands… you know.. because they’re involved with death metal and therefore no doubt have fellowship with satanists and therefore blah blah blah ad nauseum.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ch … etal_bands
Let’s cut the distraction though and get to the real chase here”
That was a nice attempt to put the obvious in a different frame, wasn’t it? Essentially you’re writing off the very obvious and pertinent facts that some “Christian” bands have satanic lyrics as not really that significant? LOL!
Henrik Ryosa Ibsen then says, “You want your own “order from chaos”. Your sense of order. Maybe that is the satisfaction of seeing your “enemy” go down in flames. A member. A website. A perceived threat against your own plans.”
Interesting idea, but not really. How am I creating order from chaos exactly? What imaginations do you have on my motives other than to shed light on the negative experience I had on your forum, which is echoed by many here too?
Henrik Ryosa Ibsen “Believing that you know best – even better than God”
lol, orly?
How so?
Making up random accusations, hoping they stick? When have I brought God or his laws, beliefs, commandments into any discussion other than above when pointing out that his behavior is in direct violation to the commandements that Christians are told to upkeep. How that makes me out to be someone who knows better than God in your flimsy mind, is beyond me but that’s how you devious turds work isn’t it? You make up all sorts of lies about anyone who points out the obvious hoping that within them some will stick and the masses will continue to stay oblivious to what is staring them directly in the face. I’m sure you get a big kick out of this sort of deceptive practice. You all seem to.
Henrik Ibsen Ryosa, “being pulled into the middle of it just gives me deeper insight”
Your involvement with Vigilant Citizen(s), at whatever level it exists is something you brought about on your own.
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When I said this above
“Making up random accusations, hoping they stick? When have I brought God or his laws, beliefs, commandments into any discussion other than above when pointing out that his behavior is in direct violation to the commandements that Christians are told to upkeep.”
I was talking about Tweeterfist. That’s the only time I pasted the most basic commandements that the Christian God gave to his followers as per the Bible. So explain Henrik. Maybe you can make a blog post on one of your websites and I can carry this discussion on with you directly? Or you can come out of hiding and post here since none of the information here is censored and hard questions won’t be deleted like they are at your Vigilant Citizen forum?
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Hey NYOC,
“You make up all sorts of lies about anyone who points out the obvious hoping that within them some will stick and the masses will continue to stay oblivious to what is staring them directly in the face. I’m sure you get a big kick out of this sort of deceptive practice. You all seem to.”
Very well put, I think you really break it down to how these people function!
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on 14/12/2011 at 18:42 Not Your Ordinary Citizen
KTG honey, please quit while you’re ahead girl. It was only two days ago you expressed your depression and admitted you weren’t giving your kids the love and attention they needed. I’m not trying to make light of this, and I don’t know about the sex discussions you have at the site because I only checked in again recently and don’t follow any particular user but noticed your cry for help. Your participation in the forums isn’t going to lift your depression or guilt. Stop playing around in the net kiddy games, no one banned you for no reason or because your view of Christianity wasn’t the same as theirs. No one called you Toby, Chainmaker or whatever name they reserve for those who don’t tow their party line. You have no business being here. You have a responsibility to your kids and to yourself. Get out of the forums for a while and attend to your real life. Maybe that will lift this cloud of misery
““I’ve been feeling kinda numb inside, sometimes unhappy, sometimes very irritated.”
Have a good day.
NYOC,
Although much of what you say does make since in response to my “cry for help” I must tell you that you’ve misunderstood my request for prayer. I’ll clear this misunderstanding up now, again, I didn’t detail what was going on with me because internet banter and my real life are very separate. I didn’t feel I had to explain my feelings to anyone because when you’re requesting prayer the details are not important it’s the prayer that counts. Now, I DO NOT neglect my children in any way. I feed them, clothe them, bathe them, house them, LOVE them, and frankly they’re quite spoiled. I’m not in any way “depressed” I’m worn out. When I get home from my long hours of work I still pay my children NOTHING BUT attention because they are the most important beings in my life, my reason for existing I believe. Even though I have a boyfriend I am still a single parent so I’m doing this on my own. I hadn’t involved my children in this relationship yet because it isn’t responsible- you don’t just throw a new person in your kid’s life. I’m digressing here, so, it’s rough being both mom and dad (dad is barely “if that” in their lives). I’ve been told by my family that I definitely “over compensate” and “over indulge” because of the absence of their father, they are very happy and well taken care of. The guilt I feel isn’t because I neglect them (that couldn’t be more false), it’s because as a single parent regardless of how much you do you (I rather) feel as though it’s never enough (basically feeling of guilt of their father being an ass and not being in their lives because I don’t want him). As far as me feeling numb inside I don’t feel numb towards my babies, I feel numb once I reach the end of my day….every day. It’s not a depression, again I’m stretched a little thin here. I really wish you would have quoted my whole post, but, in translation: I hadn’t been going to church like I used to and I also hadn’t been connected to God like I used to be because I’m am very tired most of time and I don’t get as much rest as I need. Having three little one’s “alone” this is really hard to do. Anyway, I know that when I’m closer to God things are never as bad as they seem, or at least it doesn’t get to me as much. I will say this again, I’m NOT nor have I ever the type of person to lay down and let hurtles overcome me or cry and whine about it, I’ve always been too pro active and spiritual to allow this. This right now it just a temporary setback, but I know in situations like this you are supposed to call on your fellow man to pray for you (prayer has a great power), so I’m never embarrassed or proud to ask for prayer and this is why I posted this request. I just didn’t detail or elaborate (I don’t think people are all that interested in details anyway). What I got from the replies was wonderful, just what I needed to kick me back in to focus. One reply in particular
“Done..
The bumps are what we climb on..
When I feel like that I get “the praise of the Lord in my mouth”
Praise can be powerful…especially when we don’t fell like it..
God bless..”
It was just the motivation I needed, and words I really needed to read. I am better now.
Anyway, my time spent on the boards or the internet really isn’t an addiction or something that reigns #1. As a matter of fact I quite often take a leave rather it be a day, two to three days, week, whatever, as a matter of fact I’m really only on Mon-Fri during working hours.
As far as Ayaka’s comments, like I said it really doesn’t bother me because there’s no truth to it. Anyone who’s been on the board for a while knows I have a since of humor and it is in no way to offend anyone. As far as the sex jokes, mostly for me it’s humor-but if it was offending her she could have pm’d me and expressed her feelings about it, just like she did when she was going through her own ordeals- I wouldn’t have had a problem with that.
As far as the banning goes most of the people that were banned I never know until someone mentions it, I don’t really know the reasons behind it because I’m not aware of the banning. I was surprised to find that FP and Smash were banned because I’ve never witnessed them doing anything wrong, if anything I think FP contributed a lot of great posts to the board and was often misunderstood and attacked because of it. That even inspired a certain thread I created so FP to you: (me saying I liked you wasn’t me being a two faced cheerleader it was merely saying that I didn’t see that you did anything to deserve a banning and truthfully I DO NOT agree with it). As far as Smash goes I seen a lot of her replies and she had some very insightful thoughts, I’ve never witnessed her breaking any of the rules either so that’s a shock also. When I was modding I mainly did bot busting because that was a problem then, what goes on now I’m not in the loop so yes it is pretty confusing when it’s put on the table. Nevertheless, when I am reading posts I’m not as vocal as I am in the social threads because at those times it really isn’t something I play around with, it’s something I’m “learning” so I’m not focused on replying I’m more focused on soaking up the information and digesting it. So, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell.
P.S. Even the little digs at me as a mother is a line that shouldn’t be crossed I have thick skin so I take no offense to it. I know what kind of mother I am and what I do for my children and someone challenging that “online” is ludicrous, and I would be less than a woman (a grown up) to allow that to even penetrate me and offend me. Again, I owe NOONE any explanations because at the end of the day NOONE but God can/will make or break me. I just see there’s a misunderstanding and I thought I would clear that up.
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Honestly KTG I don’t want to trade insults with you. Go tend to your kids. Get offline for a while till you feel better. I’m sure your depression or anxiety is directly related to an intuitive sense that you’re wasting time with all this stuff when you have a higher responsibility calling. None of this here or on the vigilant citizen was about you anyway, it was about the few posters that were banned for no good reason other than they having alternative view points or asking some specific questions that the owners there want silenced. So you made this a fight of yours for nothing. Go be a Mom.
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Hey KTG,
Respect for your answer and the way you reflect and take responsibility towards your kids! I’m sure the rest of the confusion I see shining through the stories other people told about you (glorification of porn, blinders towards unethical behaviour of the VC crew) will dissolve when you reflect that the same consequent way. This online reality that deals with the occult really can suck the rest of energy out of us, and as you’re aware, you’re not the only one dependent on your energy.
All the best for you and your family!
God bless, Chaukee
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o on 14/12/2011 at 02:08 | Reply Ayaka
Lord help us if she has any kids.
They probably get to particpate in her homemade porn movies and get to watch them with her when they’re done.
Nothing like “quality” family time in the KTG house
==============================
And this dear Ayaka is not even funny….sorry babes but it’s just SICK! I would probably lol if you would have said my brother, sister, cousin, or something to poke fun at me but to involve children in any way is just sick. What kind of sick mind would go there?
Thank you,
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Actually,
I’m not even being funny, dearie.
I have heard about parents that really DO such sick shit with their kids. They’ll keep porn on there computer while the kids are around and you could easily see children as young as TWO were looking at it. Some will even have sex when the children are around. Sometimes they’ll even have porn magazines laying around the house, where the kids can easily pick one up and look at it. Although, I highly doubt people still even read magazines anymore. Concidering that those are a thing of the past.
How do I know about this? I used to hear about this from people I have worked with who have heard about it from other people. To put it mildly, “word of mouth”.
Good god, I’ve even heard sexual comments coming from little kids. I happen to know people who work in the day care business who told me some of the things they got to hear from these kids.
I even got to hear some of it for myself when I walked in there one day just to pay a visit from someone (who I’m going to be meeting again on Monday. It’e been two years since I last saw her.). I heard kids, who appeared to be around 3-4 years old talking about who has the “tightest ass”, “biggest tits”, “largest cock”, “best pussy that’s good for fucking”. These are coming from CHILDREN! Children shouldn’t be talking about things like that.
One of the kids even said that his “lollipop dick is best for sucking”. I asked that kid where he heard that from and he told me that his father always tells his mother this when she’s on her knees. Yep, that’s what the kid said. It’s very possible that these kids don’t have a clue what they are saying and are just imitating what they hear from their parents, due to the enviroment these kids are growing up around.
It disgust me.
Therefore, due to the fact that sex runs in your mind too much, I was assuming that you were just another one of those careless mothers whom I should say are, how shall I put it, “loose”.
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o on 14/12/2011 at 20:32 | Reply Not Your Ordinary Citizen
Honestly KTG I don’t want to trade insults with you. Go tend to your kids. Get offline for a while till you feel better. I’m sure your depression or anxiety is directly related to an intuitive sense that you’re wasting time with all this stuff when you have a higher responsibility calling. None of this here or on the vigilant citizen was about you anyway, it was about the few posters that were banned for no good reason other than they having alternative view points or asking some specific questions that the owners there want silenced. So you made this a fight of yours for nothing. Go be a Mom.
Sweetie please,
Thank you for the “advice” but you can keep it- I don’t need someone counseling me through his/her keyboard on what to do as a mother lol. Fact that “you” feel you need to goes to show someone is taking this online shit a little too seriously. Trust me I have NO guilt for my time on here, perhaps maybe that’s just you projecting your own feeling of guilt for not taking care of responsibility onto me? *shrugz* Thanks anyway, I am done now.
I will say one thing you’re right about though, all of this VC is or isn’t shit is pointless. Really a waste of time so we surely agree there, and at this point I’m going to exclude myself from this riff because like you said, it doesn’t directly involve me so please, carry on…… btw…thanks for THAT wakeup call.
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Why are you here for real..
No one cares about whether you watch porn with your kids on this blog.
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The fact that you have to give us all your auto-biography shows clear insecurities coming from your end.
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KTG you do like to talk about yourself a lot and I say that almost everything you’re saying here is pointless because this blog post and it’s comments aren’t about you, the mom or the sheeple.
The subject is Vigilant Citizen. No really, it is. Go check the title out for yourself if you don’t believe us. I know how that must disappoint you but it’s just the truth.
Telling us that talking about Vigilant Citizen is pointless shows how self centered you are and I agree with the others, you’re not being a good mom.
Then admitting that you use the label Toby because it was popular while also admitting you don’t have a clue about it shows classical group think mentality at it’s finest.
Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within groups of people. It is the mode of thinking that happens when the desire for harmony in a decision-making group overrides a realistic appraisal of alternatives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
You basically just admitted you don’t think for yourself and succumb to popular opinion. That equals being stupid and a sheeple, but everyone already knew that about you from the get go so there’s no new news there.
Now shut up while we enjoy talking about the true topic at hand.
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o on 14/12/2011 at 22:03 | Reply chaukeedaar
Hey KTG,
Respect for your answer and the way you reflect and take responsibility towards your kids! I’m sure the rest of the confusion I see shining through the stories other people told about you (glorification of porn, blinders towards unethical behaviour of the VC crew) will dissolve when you reflect that the same consequent way. This online reality that deals with the occult really can suck the rest of energy out of us, and as you’re aware, you’re not the only one dependent on your energy.
All the best for you and your family!
God bless, Chaukee
Hey Chaukee,
Thank you for your reply and for the blessing (appreciate that)! I agree that all of the information I digested since I first started learning about the occult was and is very draining, because there’s so much happening around us that we were unaware of it’s a major shock mentally and spiritually (which can definitely leave you drained physically). Often times I do take a small high aides from it because I don’t want to be consumed by it all. Laughter for me is very healing and at times cleansing so I laugh as much as possible, but, I can understand if someone was offended or “put off” by my choice of humor. Not everyone appreciates the same type of laughter, I’m understanding about that. People who actually know me totally get my since of humor and they find it quite amusing themselves, but, like I said that’s because they know me. If you could ask them they would be the first to tell you that I’m nowhere near close to being promiscuous, I’m really not the type to sleep around never really been my cup of tea there’s nothing fulfilling about it. My “grown up time” has always been within then boundaries of a relationship or at the time marriage, so if/ when I disclose truthful information it wouldn’t be about “random” guys- but I know you’re not throwing any accusations my way, so I’ll just lay this down to rest.
When it comes to the boards other then engaging in humorous antics if I’m on I’m more than likely lurking and reading a lot of posts, I don’t really pay attention to other things that are going on unless it directly involves me (I guess I’m just not that interested) so I don’t really get involved with it all. On a very serious note the whole Toby issue that went down I wasn’t even around to witness, I got it all second hand after the fact and I still don’t fully understand it. I was a member since the board started but at that time I was taking one of my high aedeses because I needed a break honestly, I actually think that whole situation is quite amusing as well. From what I understood it to be it sounded like a bunch of nonsense, and went so far that the board had to be reset. The whole Toby name calling thing (NOT speaking for ANYONE else of the VC forum) for me is basically like a running joke, a label if you will…I really don’t know this character so when I use the name it’s just a label… so, me being a grown up and acknowledging when I’m wrong I must apologize for referring to you as Toby.
With that being said, I again thank you for the blessings and appreciate your stating your respect to me as a mother.
Take care,
*kiss*
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o SilentObserver
Why are you here for real..
No one cares about whether you watch porn with your kids on this blog.
=======================================
Then it should have never been metioned in the first place.
With this being said I do not need to defend any securities or lack thereof to anyone, again, in case you were not paying attention I was clearing up a misunderstanding to something that was assumed and directed my way.
So, let it go and lay it to rest, unless the goal for you or anyone else for that matter is to keep the drama going.
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KTG, seriously…shut up. No one cares about you.
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Wow Caukee, great group you have here dude. Well, I must say at least I have some respect for ya, others….not so much. Anyway, enjoy your tyrant antics guys….. really. I’m going to excuse myself from this firing squad you have going on here, and Gyro honey, I really don’t see too many of your guys (other than Chaukee and a couple others) really talking about the disinfo…. I think you’re ALL being what you accused me of…SELF CENTERED…because you’re all talking about yourselves being mistreated, banned, post deleted….. well, not really talking, whining….Everytime somone comes in and disagree with your disinfo theory you don’t reply with proff, you reply with whining about YOURSELVES being banned and what you brought to the board and blah blah blah cry me a river. So when you’re throwing your little lol definitions at me why don’tcha check your reflection……. Pot, I’m kettle nice to meet you. If anything you guys are not on topic here you’ve turned it into the I was deleted and mistreated thread, sounds like self centered behavior to me…. Now, I must exit now and please…..if you care anything about me please continue to blast me, feeds my ego you know? Lol later kids.
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The fact that you’re here to defend a married man with your wall-of-nothing texts is amusing. I can totally get why your husband left you now.
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you already said that you attention whore STFU stupid sheeple, poor excuse of a stupid mom, depressed retard. Catch my drift you porn addicted ignorant ass munch?
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Hey Gyro,
That comment crossed my line, pleace accept my warning. Right, you were not the first to throw “whore” around, but the other comments at least had SOME other information value in it.
Life is not only about being right, but also about doing right.
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1. on 15/12/2011 at 00:07 | Reply Gyro
you already said that you attention whore STFU stupid sheeple, poor excuse of a stupid mom, depressed retard. Catch my drift you porn addicted ignorant ass munch?
==========================================================
LMFAO Gyro gyro poor little gyro,
Wanna get real, let’s get real…. You think you’re hitting below the belt and by calling to get under my skin? Kiddo, this is a pass time for me and I damn near spit my water out laughing at how hostile you are right now. Babyluv, this is the internet, and make no mistake NOT ONE of you created this blog yourselves other than the Chaukee. If it were that important to you you would have done this shit yourself, you found a place where you can bitch and moan about being banned or whatever else you wanna cry about and you’re personalizing it….. you’re not original in this situation, you’re piggy backing off of what Chaukee created….sheeple much? PATHETIC! If I got banned from the forum guess what I WOULDN’T GIVE A FUCK, REALLY WOULDN’T CARE, this shit isn’t my life. The forums must be so important to you that you feel mistreated and your little feelings got hurt. I mean you go as far as GOING IN to the forums just to find what people say only to repost it here. Hell, you’ll even go as far and looking up a person’s FB posts and you have the nerve to question what I do on MY time?? Doesn’t that sound kind of well….. retarded??? ROFLMFAO, when I leave from work you people are forgotten. I don’t give two shits about it, I could have pulled Ayaka’s card a long time ago with some personal shit she sent to me but I didn’t, know why? Why the fuck would I invest my time to look for it? Who the hell cares? This shit is used to keep me entertained while I make my $ at work, lol, there’s more to life than crying about how VC wronged you. What I absorb is what I absorb and everything else is for my lolz, the more I type the harder I’m laughing…..fuck lmao, just a wee bit too wrapped up in this aren’t ya? If you really didn’t care, wasn’t interested, too “mature”, or even not ATTENTION WHORING yourself you wouldn’t even take the time to reply to me. LOL, so, please continue to entertain me and reply again, (this time I need to feel the hostility so make it good) have to tell you though… when it’s time to go it’s time to go and I’m done…. I BET you’ll still be here waiting for the next blitz attack. Hopefully YOU don’t have kids to tend to during this time otherwise that would be…well… sad. See there? An hour has flown by and I didn’t even notice, only an hour left so better get it in while you can- I may not be here tomorrow though, I’m starting to get bored.
**Patiently awaiting your next lame reply**
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are you really a mother?
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=child+services
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lol KTG you said twice you were going to bow out and are so easily hooked back in? haha.
These are for you, to get you back on track
http://bit.ly/6Z7x2H
and
http://bit.ly/9f5MdO
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I said the previous one was my last post but I’d like to say sorry to KTG even though I’ve said nothing to her for what has to be called childish behaviour by Gyro and SilentObserver,
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[quote]and most people here are covering for you[/quote]
^wtf am I about to be arrested for real (you want me to do group think and suck Vig’s dick…fuck that)… I don’t need anyone to cover for me. I did nothing wrong except speak my mind.
I love how Vigilant pieces together that I’m chainmaker…. and what a convenient time to do so.
The man acts like he has something to hide.
Banning posters left and right.. I would not be surprised in the slightest is he was responsible for those blogs and the “Toby” persona.
Publicity is Publicity.
[quote=”layaamani”][quote=”FailBoat”]You know what would be really FAIR VC?
Unban FP and Aeon,
Why did they get banned?
especially Aeon?
Edit,
If you are really not censoring,
Unban then and let them ask some questions here in the open, what’ve you got to lose?[/quote]
[color=#4000FF]Aeon is not banned. He is free to log whenever he likes and ask VC his questions. [/color] :thumbsup:[/quote]
I was IP banned right after getting my account banned for being Chainmaker and returning to the forums. And you’ve got to love riot control on Laya’s part. Vig probably fed her that lie or moderation doesn’t check if posters have been banned or not when they speak or not I don’t know.
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Had to type this here of course cause I can’t post on the boards.
*waves at Hartwell*
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Most probably Laya doesn’t know. I don’t know all the privileges that mods have but one things for sure, they can’t change any action VC has done.
Hartwell banned you?
Oh and I emailed you xD
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It’s funny I’m not sure who I have more of a problem with the people at the top or the people at the bottom. The truth of the matter is that there are bad folks at all levels of society as there are also good folks.
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Here’s my official VC hate list with my reasons stated:
Cheers (is a follower of Ann Coulter)
Katarzyna/Russian Nika (too much of a slut and always has sex on the brain)
kissthegryl (It’s been stated on the blog already too many times)
Tweeterfist (too much of a yes-man)
Chainmaker (racist bigot)
justjess (just can’t see past her nose)
HausOfHerpies/bustos 92/RIRIsG4RL (Deniers who doesn’t believe that the elite/shadow government exist. If they don’t believe the concept even exist why are they on the site to begin with?)
GatecrasherOne (helped contribute to the “Who Is” thread and helped get MysticShadow and mysticseeker banned)
aaaysitselle (thinks the Rockerfellers are the greatest and also trys to deny the existence of the shadow goverment)
Adam C. Madison (Rude, disrespectful, bastard)
Shannon Darko (She’s WAY too immature and flashes her tits too much. She’s physically 17 years old, but has the mentality of a 12 year old. GROW UP ALREADY, SHANNON!)
Hartwell (another brainwashed celebrity worshiper)
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Why a hate list girl. Isn’t that investing too much in negative energy? Time could be spent far more productive on doing something positive.
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Honestly Ayaka that is highly unneccesary. Really a hate list? You’re taking the boards way too seriously. Just because people have different opinions or act different from you doesn’t mean they deserve any hate. Grow up man. This is ridiculous smh.
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No dearie,
I’m being dead serious.
I left the site for good because I was frustrated with being slandered by those annoying celebrity worshipping teens. I’m just pointing out the number of times I have been attacked on the site just for trying point out the truth to you people. BUT NO, these programmed sheeple just LOVE to defend the celebrities and deny everything I tried to tell them. These kids need to quit living in fairyland (or shall I say Hollywoodland) and GROW UP!
This comment I made a while back should explain my intentions clearer:
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LMAO this is pitiful. Telling people to grow up when you’ve made a ‘hate list’ is incredibly ironic.
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*sigh* I get your frustration, sometimes I don’t get why those Gaga fangirls/boys are even on the board anyway.. I just think it’s immature to make a “hate list”, that’s all.
Hope you’ll find a forum better suited for you.
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What do you people think is Chainmaker’s role in all of this. What is his hidden agenda. Did he follow the other fundies and his personal friend Daciple to the TF site? Can someone tell me.
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He was off the boards at that time.
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Rumor is that he is Daciple’s alter ego. Daciple writes walls of text and essays that hardly anyone read but the people he argues with, like Artful Revealer and Koncretemind for example. Both are supposed Gnostic Luciferians for their beliefs, but are much more articulate and well spoken than the illiterate imbecile Daciple.
Oh want to know something funny? Daciple is constantly preaching to others about coming to Christ while in the same thread has admitted to his own weakness and addiction to PORN! How awesome is that? He’s bringing people to Christ in one minute, and wanking off at his computer screen the next.
Chainmaker then later comes around and calls anyone who has a different viewpoint to Daciple a Gnostic Satanist and regularly gets banned. He’s also notably anti-semitic in his rants.
They have a cool story about how they met, both supposedly had trouble with the law. The reality is that they’re probably the same dude with psychological imbalances.
All the leaders of the vigilant citizen have multiple accounts, the ones involved in controlling the site and that’s how they control the flow of information. If you come in with some truth like Female Pharoe and the Mystic users did, you’ll either get banned and your thread deleted or the trolls and alts come in and flame the hell out of you till the original message is diluted in multiple posts of stupidity.
If you get banned and your thread deleted, you must have said something that really struck a chord.
here’s another one of the VC owners websites
http://www.bigfuckingsecret.com
Don’t buy the book but there is a mp3 download where you can hear them interviewing each other on a book that their other ego Eli Rook is released on November 11, 2011 at 11:11 on Amazon.com.
Eli Rook is the username they used for their GIN affiliate account. It’s easy to know that this is the case because when it was showing on the Vigilant Citizen website(s) you could click on the link and get the unique affiliate number which corresponds to the one the user known as “ELI ROOK” uses. If you google the name Eli Rook you will eventually see that all the Join the New World Order promotions he has going eventually lead to an affiliate invite to join the GIN where you are told that top elite Illuminati have formed the company to dispel secret mind powers to you and offer you investment opportunities that will make you rich in the coming shift to the New World Order. Oh yeah, it costs $1000.00 a month to join.
He asks the listeners to all buy it at that time to shoot it up the Amazon rankings to number one. The interview talks about an “energetic” experience and how he was so super energized that he wrote a book on energy and dimensional shifts and how the realization of the Godhood self allows us to bend our realities and create experiences that are positive for us. Occult stuff essentially.
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I have a theory that Chainmaker is only acting like an intolerant fundamentalist in order to annoy as many people as possible and drive them away from true Christianity. It is not difficult to understand that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Tweeterfist told Chainmaker as much, still he decides to remain judgmental and filled with hate for everyone whose believe is different from his own. He is intelligent enough to understand that this will only drive people away from the faith he proclaims to adhere to.
Chainmaker is the embodiment of the spirit of antichrist being hateful, not loving, judgmental, not forgiving, bearing false witness behind people’s backs while pretending to be an upstanding citizen.
The name Chainmaker and his display picture are also very revealing as to his true nature and intentions.
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I have also come to the conclusion that some of the most prolific VC forum members have on average between two to four different accounts with some having about six or more.
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Hey “You’re Only as Strong as Your Weakest Link” and Rekamniahc,
Great input here, thanks a lot! Those people in the background of VC, GIN and such sites more and more look to me like a bunch of conscienceless marketing drones that are mostly after the money rather than serving a real disinformation agenda (Mitch Joel, Kevin Trudeau a.s.o.). They’re occult and possibly satanists, for sure, and by hiding that they harm the readers and the good cause a lot. I don’t know, my intuition goes back and forth between money versus disinformation. Maybe both? Don’t know what you guys think about their motives.
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Sorry, I just now see the brilliant epiphany female pharao had, that is one hell of an explonation and supports the “disinformation” argument:
“From the occult perspective, it has been said that Masonic images and other things appear purposely because through giving us these secrets they stick to their own codes and basically initiate us without our knowledge. If you are a read person of revelations, as I do not claim to be, one of the questions was “if you know the mark of the beast why would you receive it”? Obviously, it is through trickery and only the wise will refuse it.
THE SITE IS AN INITIATION! Remember the question of: “are we just seeing this more because we realize it, or are they doing it more now for publicity” .
HA! It is both! And the publicity is getting us accustomed to their rank and file in the order. ”
Dear female pharao, my I add that text of yours to my blog article above?
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Poor Logan Tweeterfist isn’t coming around anymore? How come sweetie? Did the expose of your facebook page and it’s satanic, drug infected and racist views scare you off?
——————————————-
Tweeterfist “Ooh you got me good all over, def put some effort into that one. Sad I won’t make that par with my response, because your whole argument here is a balloon of hot air.”
Effort into what Logan? What?
I just googled Tweeterfist and learned a lot about you, like that you consider yourself a CONSPIRACY ANALYST
That your facebook page has racist pictures,
promotes drugs,
Problem is that maybe your reasoning has holes in it because your brain has holes in it from all the drugs you’ve done. Maybe that’s why you’re so easily led by others and take on all that false praise and are such a lap dog?
porn and other degenerate things like making fun of handicapped individuals?
That your youtube page promotes satanic music?
But you’re a good kid right? Just a little misled. You can do all that bad stuff because you’re saved by the blood of Christ which allows you to do all that negative stuff while preaching to others.
You created a site? LOL, but are a moderator on Vigilant Citizen. Sure, what else have you got to tell us?
Tweeterfist “3) One, I don’t know him, but that doesn’t mean I won’t call out bogus disinformation slandering and faulty logic when I see”
You just don’t get it do you, you idiot? You’re slandering people all over the place on a whim, even on here. It’s clear as day for anyone else watching. You’re doing this without a shred of evidence, but you come here protecting Vigilant Citizen when dozens of people have reason to believe he has no good motives. You even say yourself you don’t trust his motives, but are partying at his site because you’re a bid bad and and important moderator? I’m sure you feel a big responsibility there. I mean, it’s not like you actually need to go out and make a real impact in the real world. Just keep talking to the same dozen or so personalities on that site and pretend you’re an important Christian savior, right?
Tweeterfist “4) Yeah, I like dubstep and heavy European rave and underground rap and all assortment of filthy music that your cliche Christian wouldn’t like. Your point?”
Do you forget these things that your Bible commands you to do
– you shall not swear
– you shall not bear false witness
– you shall not speak evil
– you shall bear no grudge
– you shall not fornicate
– you shall no take part in drunkeness
You swear. You bear false witness. You bear grudges. You fornicate. You take part in recreational drugs and drunkeness. Yet you preach to others to save them?
How funny is that?
My point?
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 warns us, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
That you are a fake and false Christian.
But then here is your idea of Christianity:
You’re warned to not take part in abominable things, but you do. You do drugs. You have sex out of wedlock per your own admission. You listen to Satanic music. Yet you parade around as a righteous Christian boy. You are a hypocrite. Everyone can see it.
Tweeterfist “Forgot about that gallery”
Yea, I’m sure you’d like nothing more than for people to forget about it since you’ve run off and deleted all those pictures now that you’ve been unraveled for everyone to see what a lying despicable hypocrite you are.
But I saved them, just for you 🙂
Am I Toby too now? I was banned for being a Toby because I didn’t share your view of the gospels. You and your crew made some pretty snarky and negative remarks about me, and I wasn’t even that character.
which makes me laugh when you say this “You have shown that you will bend evidence to fit the means of truth you wish.”
I bend evidence? You don’t even have any when you make your accusations you lying twit!
You sure love evidence {shakes my head}
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Hello My Pets,
A lot has gone on its safe to say.
I just wanted to say my final piece pertaining to “disinformation”.
We can scroll up to see where the moderator of the boards in question publicly invited me to a public chat of my choosing to ask questions and provided his email address. He promised , in that same vein, to email me a detailed account of the “other side of the story”.
Just wanted to report to the viewing public that though I have emailed him twice, and confirmed this meeting with another board admin in the public chat forum. Tweeterfist , nor anyone else, has emailed me back confirming the order or as promised.
THAT ladies and gentlemen is disinformation. It is a lie.
This same moderator, who invited me to a public chat, is now professing has he always communicates and how important communication is. Is that not the babbling of a politician. Hypocritical. No?
In this same chat, I was told by one of the active board members to “just say you were misled by Toby”. Is this NOT the dealings in deceit that the coward employs to stay as the right hand of the dictator?
Upon giving one of the sites in question that was filtered. The mod, Hartwell, created a thread to “prove” that it was not filtered. I then detailed how I have seen words posted by the mods that are known for a fact to be kicked out by board members so much so that we have to intentionally misspell them. I was told that a specific “normal” poster could post them in the same breath.
Now anyone with comprehensive reasoning may ask, HOW and WHY this mod was able to identify the word(s) and even offer up another member who could “post them”. Script?
Also want to say that this same “magical member” often professes to speak to Vig personally, so much so that she posted screenshots supposedly “confirming” information about this site that she got from VC. Is it …plausible to assume that this member who is supposed to be like“you and I” may have privileges – including filter – that normal people do not?
On a personal note, It is a little hurtful that posters that have positively commented on 95% (Ambroise included *waves)of my threads have allowed some to attempt to character assassinate me, calling me a racist, bigot, unoriginal and attacking or trying to discredit anyone that may have a positive thing to say about me or my posts….
But C’est La Vie..Que Sera Sera.
At the end of the day, we have to be content that that regardless of somes motivations we are honest , free thinking, and righteous sons and daughters of God who are on the search for truth. And whether Toby is real , or not, that should not invalidate the questions that have come about supposedly by him, through him, or any other association.
Like the assistant that exposes corruption after fired, the boss was still embezzling funds (for example).
Let the rest play “plantation” vying for the coveted role of the house slave, absolutely elated that they will be eating prime bits of the swine intestine and dining on the left over pound cake they themselves baked.
If you see me around in the web world say hello. Do stay in touch. My pets
::exists stage left::
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lol “just say you were mislead by Toby”
priceless
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Thank you femalepharoe for letting this be known. I do hope to see you around again, your commentary is much appreciated.
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Henrik “Ibsen” says,
“Why would I pollute my own website willingly with more of your nonsense? And how am I hiding by posting my responses via a place just as appropriate to the subject as chauk’s blog?”
It wasn’t an either/or request. I was giving you options since you cowardly hang out over there while reading what is said here and responding to it. It was simply a friendly invitation back here since you’ve already been on this blog as the poster called Ibsen above. I was banned there three months ago and people are being silenced for asking these sorts of questions.
I thought I might invite you and your VC friends to stop the shenanigans and engage in an open and honest discussion on the obvious facts on a blog such as this one where you won’t be censored?
I was wrong obviously, and of course I have my suspicions why because of what has already been said about your affiliation with the crew there and how a lot of it makes logical sense, especially with how you and Tweeterfist have responded.
Henrik Ibsen,
“Why would any normal user, ex user or observer of the Vigilant Citizen website feel any particular need to “call me out”?”
I already explained that your previous participation here and from what JJ Virgil disclosed above and the response you gave later confirms the accusations, doesn’t it?
I’ve also explained that I was banned from the Vigilant Citizen website 3 months ago by Tweeterfist, Daciple and Chainmaker gang being labelled a Gnostic Luciferian and Toby.
I also know what happens to anyone who tries to discuss these topics as is obvious by the bannings of Female Pharoah, the Mystic users and Aeonflux.
I haven’t been back since my ban. I found this website doing a search on something unrelated. Believe it or not, don’t care.
Henrik Ibsen Ryosa,
“You’re the one who needs to explain yourself, quite frankly as you haven’t a leg to stand on, as proved by “Scanime = Scam Me” ”
That wasn’t me, and I’m sure you know it. Then again it’s just a sign of how you guys operate over at the VC that’s just you again trying to lump all the “dissenters” into one, for whatever sick and internal reason you guys have.
In no way do I assume that the Toby character, real or not, is innocent of anything. I do object to being unfairly labelled and silenced because I had something different to say. Get my drift? Probably not…
This blog is neutral territory obviously. You wanting to exchange dialogue by posting there at VC is obvious. At VC where all things can be censored just adds to the fact that you guys play unfair and silence that which doesn’t fit into your program.
You talk a lot of shit and most people here realize it, I’m sure. Some of the deluded readers there may have missed something though. In your attempt to try coalesce various discussions and posters into one, you hide your own already masked confusion.
Of course I haven’t already not consider that this is what you’re after to begin with; confusion in general. That’s how you liars work.
Here you talk as if you are unsure who I am
“depending on who you are.”
and
“there is not much choice but to believe you are either affiliated with such an organization, or support those same ideals,”
But then later try to lump me in with other people you have problems with
“This fake comment and your most recent share a most interesting characteristic” @ http://www.taraariano.com/im-caught-in-a-bad-romance-with-the-vigilant-citizen/
Not that the facts mean anything to you, or truth either but I wasn’t a member of VC back then and I have no idea if you or someone else made those comments, nor do I care either.
You can assume we’re the same individual all you like and it still wouldn’t bother me one bit 🙂
Here’s how I came to the conclusions that I have come to, based on what has been written here and my experiences being labelled a “Toby” on the VC website because I didn’t tow the typical fundamentalist Christian rhetoric. I’d also like to add that being called a Gnostic Satanist is high comedy since one of the big proponents of that game was Tweeterfist, an individual that I have since exposes as fake a Christian merely by looking at his his public facebook page which has :wink-wink: mysteriously become private and said photo album deleted. Thanks for confirming the obvious about you Logan btw 🙂 Oh and yeah it was all clandestine activity that revealed this, you know like putting “Tweeterfist” into google and looking at the link and making the obvious connections.
Ok, I’ll break it down for you Henrik…in the next response
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continued…
JJ Virgil points you out in the first message. You show up as Ibsen which is later pointed out by the Jones clan. You don’t deny this is true but rather confirm it, as did Tweeterfist, by stating that you did work with the individual known as Toby to create another board and lead people to it. Good enough so far?
Yes Henrik I’m sure you take a lot of time to think about what you write and it’s effects, and maybe you have found that you are able to confuse and direct many a user from your “carefully” planned rhetoric, but you yourself have surely come across and are able to understand that there are people out there that, for lack of a better term, have a good bullshit detector built in.
Henrik: “I mean let’s review: 1. I don’t possess many of the most usual traits or tendencies of typical posters on VC”
On on hand this is true, most of your participation is in threads like the one you’re in now to do your typical damage control. On the other hand, you’re a bit paranoid too, or just pretend to be.
“2. I appear to generally pay great attention to detail in what I say and how I say it (and it’s true, I do)”
Yes, you talk a lot of shit and probably carefully consider how you are going to present it.
” 3. I appeared to be of some influence to members on the old forum, despite relatively few posts and not being an “attention whore”.”
Cool story bro
” 4. My ambition when it came to taking the lead in many areas on TruthFiles, which was supposed to be a Christian resource, but ever since my departure looks to be for all intents and purposes, dead. There could be more, but let’s go with those for now.”
Like I said above, admitting this confirms the Jones story above that you were all in on whatever sick project was going on at VC the first time around and that it all went sour for whatever reasons we don’t know yet. All I know is that since the JJ Virgil person, whom you guys believe is Toby and his crew divulged all the details above, there’s been some serious damage control going on where other users at your VC forums are being banned for asking simple questions and moderators are telling people like FP above to just say “you were tricked by Toby”.
When all that is taken into consideration it paints a bigger picture that you are involved.
When someone looks at your various sites and their message, it’s clear you’re a fake Christian who likes to deceive people.
So the logical conclusion is that you are involved at the level that has already been described from the beginning of the comments here, and your actions are continuing to confirm it.
Last but not least, I’m sure you also want everyone to ignore the fact that Death Metal historically has Satanic roots and just pretend that a good little Christian boy like you merely enjoys dabbling in it for artistic purposes and not your own inner personal expression.
“Themes of violence, drugs, gore, and death are prevalent not only in mainstream death metal culture but are also prime targets of self-satire”
http://nicholas-morine.suite101.com/what-is-death-metal-history-origins-genres-a143378
“English heavy metal band Venom, from Newcastle, crystallized the elements of what later became known as thrash metal, death metal and black metal, with their 1981 album Welcome to Hell.[14] Their dark, blistering sound, harsh vocals, and macabre, proudly Satanic imagery proved a major inspiration for extreme metal bands.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal
Let’s just ignore all of this:
“A history of death metal
From Cannibal Corpse to Deicide, Morbid Angel to Death”
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/a-history-of-death-metal-249395
“The Roots of Death Metal
http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/roots.html
To really see where it all started you must take a look at what death metal evolved from originally. Back in the eighties, of course the most popular form of hard rock and metal were the hair/glam metal bands but underground saw the rising force of thrash and speed metal. Thrash took the power and form of the NWOBHM (New Wave of British Heavy Metal) scene and combined it with the velocity and aggressiveness of the late seventies hardcore punk scene. Venom was really the first to advance the sound of speed metal and in doing so they created the basis for three types of extreme heavy metal music: Thrash, Death, and Black Metal. Their first album, Welcome To Hell 2 , released back in 1981, inspired thousands of bands later to come. Slayer, if not more influential, took the lyrical ideas even farther and created even faster music as evident by their 1983 debut, Show No Mercy . Then in 1985, Possessed released their first album entitled Seven Churches . This album is recognized as the first real showing of death metal.
Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
Yet the music was still pretty thrash-based and not looked upon as another sub genre. During this time period, thrash bands were popping up left and right, but not all of them from the same place. Florida’s Nasty Savage were apart of the developing evil thrash theme with their self-titled debut, Nasty Savage . In Brazil, a band named Sepultura had their own version of brutal proto-death metal with their first album from ’86, Morbid Visions/Bestial Devastation . The Canadian band Slaughter saw the release of Strappado. . Germany was also apart of the mix with Kreator’s furious second album, Pleasure to Kill . Then in 1987, the aptly named Death released Scream Bloody Gore . This album really took the sound to the next level and set death metal off as its own genre. The music was raw, violent, and relentless. It was perhaps the most influential album towards the growing revolution of DM. The legendary founder/guitarist/vocalist, Chuck Schuldiner (R.I.P.), was truly ahead of his time.”
– Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
So yeah, your claim that expressing yourself through a satanic sub set of music is just an artistic way of showing your love for Christ as a true Christian is as stupid as saying it’s no big deal to participate in a Black Mass or ritual sacrifice because it’s just no big deal and you’re just infiltrating satanistic practices to bring people to Christ. Dummy, it’s usually the other way around but you know that already, don’t you? 😉
It’s also as funny as your other cohorts condemning others to hell because they don’t accept their view of Christ while the same individuals *cough* Tweeterfist, *cough* Daciple smoke pot, get drunk, have sex outside of wedlock and even in worst cases like Tweeterfist, promote racism and religious intolerance.
You’re all just good intentioned Christians, but merely a bit misled right? LOLOL
Good day to you Henrik “Ibsen” Ryosa
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JJ Virgil points you out in the first message. You show up as Ibsen which is later pointed out by the Jones clan. You don’t deny this is true but rather confirm it, as did Tweeterfist, by stating that you did work with the individual known as Toby to create another board and lead people to it. Good enough so far?
Yes Henrik I’m sure you take a lot of time to think about what you write and it’s effects, and maybe you have found that you are able to confuse and direct many a user from your “carefully” planned rhetoric, but you yourself have surely come across and are able to understand that there are people out there that, for lack of a better term, have a good bullshit detector built in.
Henrik: “I mean let’s review: 1. I don’t possess many of the most usual traits or tendencies of typical posters on VC”
On on hand this is true, most of your participation is in threads like the one you’re in now to do your typical damage control. On the other hand, you’re a bit paranoid too, or just pretend to be.
“2. I appear to generally pay great attention to detail in what I say and how I say it (and it’s true, I do)”
Yes, you talk a lot of shit and probably carefully consider how you are going to present it.
” 3. I appeared to be of some influence to members on the old forum, despite relatively few posts and not being an “attention whore”.”
Cool story bro
” 4. My ambition when it came to taking the lead in many areas on TruthFiles, which was supposed to be a Christian resource, but ever since my departure looks to be for all intents and purposes, dead. There could be more, but let’s go with those for now.”
Like I said above, admitting this confirms the Jones story above that you were all in on whatever sick project was going on at VC the first time around and that it all went sour for whatever reasons we don’t know yet. All I know is that since the JJ Virgil person, whom you guys believe is Toby and his crew divulged all the details above, there’s been some serious damage control going on where other users at your VC forums are being banned for asking simple questions and moderators are telling people like FP above to just say “you were tricked by Toby”.
When all that is taken into consideration it paints a bigger picture that you are involved.
When someone looks at your various sites and their message, it’s clear you’re a fake Christian who likes to deceive people.
So the logical conclusion is that you are involved at the level that has already been described from the beginning of the comments here, and your actions are continuing to confirm it.
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Last but not least Henrik Ibsen, I’m sure you also want everyone to ignore the fact that Death Metal historically has Satanic roots and just pretend that a good little Christian boy like you merely enjoys dabbling in it for artistic purposes and not your own inner personal expression.
“Themes of violence, drugs, gore, and death are prevalent not only in mainstream death metal culture but are also prime targets of self-satire”
http://nicholas-morine.suite101.com/what-is-death-metal-history-origins-genres-a143378
“English heavy metal band Venom, from Newcastle, crystallized the elements of what later became known as thrash metal, death metal and black metal, with their 1981 album Welcome to Hell.[14] Their dark, blistering sound, harsh vocals, and macabre, proudly Satanic imagery proved a major inspiration for extreme metal bands.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal
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Let’s just ignore all of this Henrik Ryosa Ibsenite:
“A history of death metal
From Cannibal Corpse to Deicide, Morbid Angel to Death”
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/a-history-of-death-metal-249395
“The Roots of Death Metal
http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/roots.html
To really see where it all started you must take a look at what death metal evolved from originally. Back in the eighties, of course the most popular form of hard rock and metal were the hair/glam metal bands but underground saw the rising force of thrash and speed metal. Thrash took the power and form of the NWOBHM (New Wave of British Heavy Metal) scene and combined it with the velocity and aggressiveness of the late seventies hardcore punk scene. Venom was really the first to advance the sound of speed metal and in doing so they created the basis for three types of extreme heavy metal music: Thrash, Death, and Black Metal. Their first album, Welcome To Hell 2 , released back in 1981, inspired thousands of bands later to come. Slayer, if not more influential, took the lyrical ideas even farther and created even faster music as evident by their 1983 debut, Show No Mercy . Then in 1985, Possessed released their first album entitled Seven Churches . This album is recognized as the first real showing of death metal.
Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
Yet the music was still pretty thrash-based and not looked upon as another sub genre. During this time period, thrash bands were popping up left and right, but not all of them from the same place. Florida’s Nasty Savage were apart of the developing evil thrash theme with their self-titled debut, Nasty Savage . In Brazil, a band named Sepultura had their own version of brutal proto-death metal with their first album from ’86, Morbid Visions/Bestial Devastation . The Canadian band Slaughter saw the release of Strappado. . Germany was also apart of the mix with Kreator’s furious second album, Pleasure to Kill . Then in 1987, the aptly named Death released Scream Bloody Gore . This album really took the sound to the next level and set death metal off as its own genre. The music was raw, violent, and relentless. It was perhaps the most influential album towards the growing revolution of DM. The legendary founder/guitarist/vocalist, Chuck Schuldiner (R.I.P.), was truly ahead of his time.”
– Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
So yeah, your claim that expressing yourself through a satanic sub set of music is just an artistic way of showing your love for Christ as a true Christian is as stupid as saying it’s no big deal to participate in a Black Mass or ritual sacrifice because it’s just no big deal and you’re just infiltrating satanistic practices to bring people to Christ. Dummy, it’s usually the other way around but you know that already, don’t you? 😉
It’s also as funny as your other cohorts condemning others to hell because they don’t accept their view of Christ while the same individuals *cough* Tweeterfist, *cough* Daciple smoke pot, get drunk, have sex outside of wedlock and even in worst cases like Tweeterfist, promote racism and religious intolerance.
You’re all just good intentioned Christians, but merely a bit misled right? LOLOL
Good day Henrik Ryosa of
http://www.illomennation.com
http://www.scanime.com,
http://www.voxhouse.net
http://www.ryosa.com
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Let’s just ignore all of this:
“A history of death metal
From Cannibal Corpse to Deicide, Morbid Angel to Death”
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/a-history-of-death-metal-249395
“The Roots of Death Metal
http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/roots.html
To really see where it all started you must take a look at what death metal evolved from originally. Back in the eighties, of course the most popular form of hard rock and metal were the hair/glam metal bands but underground saw the rising force of thrash and speed metal. Thrash took the power and form of the NWOBHM (New Wave of British Heavy Metal) scene and combined it with the velocity and aggressiveness of the late seventies hardcore punk scene. Venom was really the first to advance the sound of speed metal and in doing so they created the basis for three types of extreme heavy metal music: Thrash, Death, and Black Metal. Their first album, Welcome To Hell 2 , released back in 1981, inspired thousands of bands later to come. Slayer, if not more influential, took the lyrical ideas even farther and created even faster music as evident by their 1983 debut, Show No Mercy . Then in 1985, Possessed released their first album entitled Seven Churches . This album is recognized as the first real showing of death metal.
Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
Yet the music was still pretty thrash-based and not looked upon as another sub genre. During this time period, thrash bands were popping up left and right, but not all of them from the same place. Florida’s Nasty Savage were apart of the developing evil thrash theme with their self-titled debut, Nasty Savage . In Brazil, a band named Sepultura had their own version of brutal proto-death metal with their first album from ’86, Morbid Visions/Bestial Devastation . The Canadian band Slaughter saw the release of Strappado. . Germany was also apart of the mix with Kreator’s furious second album, Pleasure to Kill . Then in 1987, the aptly named Death released Scream Bloody Gore . This album really took the sound to the next level and set death metal off as its own genre. The music was raw, violent, and relentless. It was perhaps the most influential album towards the growing revolution of DM. The legendary founder/guitarist/vocalist, Chuck Schuldiner (R.I.P.), was truly ahead of his time.”
– Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
So yeah, your claim that expressing yourself through a satanic sub set of music is just an artistic way of showing your love for Christ as a true Christian is as stupid as saying it’s no big deal to participate in a Black Mass or ritual sacrifice because it’s just no big deal and you’re just infiltrating satanistic practices to bring people to Christ. Dummy, it’s usually the other way around but you know that already, don’t you? 😉
It’s also as funny as your other cohorts condemning others to hell because they don’t accept their view of Christ while the same individuals *cough* Tweeterfist, *cough* Daciple smoke pot, get drunk, have sex outside of wedlock and even in worst cases like Tweeterfist, promote racism and religious intolerance.
You’re all just good intentioned Christians, but merely a bit misled right? LOLOL
Good day Henrik Ryosa of
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So if we all just look past this, everything with Henrik Ryosa is all good
(remove spaces in the URL’s to view otherwise I cannot post them here)
“A history of death metal
From Cannibal Corpse to Deicide, Morbid Angel to Death”
http:// www. musicradar. com / news / guitars / a-history-of-death-metal-249395
“The Roots of Death Metal
http:// www. av1611. org / othpubls / roots . html
To really see where it all started you must take a look at what death metal evolved from originally. Back in the eighties, of course the most popular form of hard rock and metal were the hair/glam metal bands but underground saw the rising force of thrash and speed metal. Thrash took the power and form of the NWOBHM (New Wave of British Heavy Metal) scene and combined it with the velocity and aggressiveness of the late seventies hardcore punk scene. Venom was really the first to advance the sound of speed metal and in doing so they created the basis for three types of extreme heavy metal music: Thrash, Death, and Black Metal. Their first album, Welcome To Hell 2 , released back in 1981, inspired thousands of bands later to come. Slayer, if not more influential, took the lyrical ideas even farther and created even faster music as evident by their 1983 debut, Show No Mercy . Then in 1985, Possessed released their first album entitled Seven Churches . This album is recognized as the first real showing of death metal.
Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
Yet the music was still pretty thrash-based and not looked upon as another sub genre. During this time period, thrash bands were popping up left and right, but not all of them from the same place. Florida’s Nasty Savage were apart of the developing evil thrash theme with their self-titled debut, Nasty Savage . In Brazil, a band named Sepultura had their own version of brutal proto-death metal with their first album from ’86, Morbid Visions/Bestial Devastation . The Canadian band Slaughter saw the release of Strappado. . Germany was also apart of the mix with Kreator’s furious second album, Pleasure to Kill . Then in 1987, the aptly named Death released Scream Bloody Gore . This album really took the sound to the next level and set death metal off as its own genre. The music was raw, violent, and relentless. It was perhaps the most influential album towards the growing revolution of DM. The legendary founder/guitarist/vocalist, Chuck Schuldiner (R.I.P.), was truly ahead of his time.”
– Satanic lyrics were brought fourth with a growl instead of just shouted vocals.
So yeah, your claim that expressing yourself through a satanic sub set of music is just an artistic way of showing your love for Christ as a true Christian is as stupid as saying it’s no big deal to participate in a Black Mass or ritual sacrifice because it’s just no big deal and you’re just infiltrating satanistic practices to bring people to Christ. Dummy, it’s usually the other way around but you know that already, don’t you? 😉
It’s also as funny as your other cohorts condemning others to hell because they don’t accept their view of Christ while the same individuals *cough* Tweeterfist, *cough* Daciple smoke pot, get drunk, have sex outside of wedlock and even in worst cases like Tweeterfist, promote racism and religious intolerance.
You’re all just good intentioned Christians, but merely a bit misled right? LOLOL
Good day Henrik Ryosa of
http://www.illomennation.com
http://www.scanime.com,
http://www.voxhouse.net
http://www.ryosa.com
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How ironic, considering that truthseer, Aeon, and I were often called “trolls”:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5569&hilit=rihanna+fingerbanging&start=20
KTG: “I can be quite intelligent at times…but here? I mostly troll….sometimes I just hate to waste intellectual discussion/debate if both sides aren’t going to be respected you know? Last debate I was into went….well….rather sour. Oh wellz….tolling is fun to….kudos luv!”
Again “troll” is just another term that VC users like to use on intelligent people that don’t agree with them.
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Last but not least, I’m sure you also want everyone to ignore the fact that Death Metal historically has Satanic roots and just pretend that a good little Christian boy like you merely enjoys dabbling in it for artistic purposes and not your own inner personal expression.
“Themes of violence, drugs, gore, and death are prevalent not only in mainstream death metal culture but are also prime targets of self-satire”
http://nicholas-morine.suite101.com/ what-is-death-metal-history-origins-genres-a143378
“English heavy metal band Venom, from Newcastle, crystallized the elements of what later became known as thrash metal, death metal and black metal, with their 1981 album Welcome to Hell.[14] Their dark, blistering sound, harsh vocals, and macabre, proudly Satanic imagery proved a major inspiration for extreme metal bands.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_metal
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Apparently you’re still Toby Chauk and you created this website on October 31, 2011….ooooh Halloween
The one Truthseer identified as Russian Nika / Katarzyna says so:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8521&start=150
“Everything on that site is a lie, it was created on 10-31-2011 and it is a formulation of Toby, the majority of posters there are fakes/imposters created by Toby and we know that it is a 99.9999999999999% chance that it is Toby but cannot state the information on the board for safety/privacy purposes. I have already discussed this with Vigilant. I don’t know why you’re pressing this issue, and most people here are covering for you since we know who you are but this is not the road to go down unless you want to ostracize yourself since most here do not like Toby.
http://www.webstatschecker.com/stats/domain/chaukeedaar.wordpress.com ”
I wonder if the information she says cannot be stated for safety/privacy purposes are the nude pictures circulation of her and Grey Sanity/Loki as told to us by Gyro, who according to Henrik is supposed to also be me.
These vigilant citizens sure know how to spin a web don’t they?
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Oh yeah, someone might want to inform Russian Nika/Katarzyna that the date of 2011-10-31 is when the site was indexed, not created, lol.
Google what that means sweetie, lol. You’re about as good a conspiracy analyst as Logan Seibert, the lavey satanist posing as a Christian.
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I don’t care ok Toby when that site was made just get a life I hate all of you trolls.
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Why do you insist I’m Toby? For someone who registered at the VC website on November 1st before the supposed and infamous Toby was around you sure have a hard-on hate-on for him.
Weird.
Is it true that you and Grey Sanity exchanged nude pics and are all sacred about them being handed around?
Now that’s funny
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Hey there NYOC,
Thanks for updating me, there are some sick minds over there, may be attracted by VC’s occultism…
“These vigilant citizens sure know how to spin a web don’t they?”
Well, THATS not the very hard part I suppose as these masonic tactics are no-brainers as soon as you know them, but whats really shocking to me: How easy simple minded people accept things by criteria of “celebrity factor”. It’s the believers of such nonsense that stress me, so to speak 😉
Cheers, Chaukee
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I love having relationshipz with dead prezidentz
Want to see my tits?
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To the idiots on VC..
One of the major reasons this blog and situations has escalated so much, is through your sheer disconnectedness with former VC users who were as has been said REPEATEDLY, BANNED WITHOUT REASON. We never got any chance to speak about what happened to us, nor did you EVER TO THIS DAY send any message back to any of us who contacted you through your chosen method.
YOU are the ones who drop bricks at the mention of this Toby character or indeed any questioning of authority on VC. YOU created this situation by banning anybody who was curious about the site they were using. YOU propelled our discussions here into an argument and YOU created the climate for personal attacks.
Finally YOU STILL FAIL to even see what happened, and continue to promote and allow the character assassination of former members on VC when you know full-well that we are not there to defend ourselves or question anything since all bans still stand..even though you said that you can see “we should never of been banned”.
Stop assuming we are all the same people, stop assuming we are following phantoms. WE were individuals who were banned for questioning your ridiculous methods of censorship. We are only together here because we found this blog where we can share what happened to us.
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I wonder what will be on today’s episode of this new and exciting soap opera. Grabs popcorn.
But please people remember behind these screen names are real people. Try to remain civilized and not hurt each other. What goes around comes around.
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I have witnessed another perfect example of just how VC chooses to operate –I am now convinced that he feigns ignorance and creates deception. For instance, in the thread “So apparently I’m a disinfo agent,” after allowing pages of insults to be traded between VC users and commenters on this blog, he eventually feels satisfied and locks the thread with the following comment: “Over 2O pages and no answer to my question. Lets just put the negativity behind us and resume being the best site and the web.” If his intentions behind creating that thread was to truly get his accusers to discuss the allegations against him, then why did he not jump in sooner and quell the mob and steer the thread back into the direction of focus? Instead, he sees how it is panning out in his favour, allows this to go on for a while, then closes it with a statement that makes it appear to the users on his forum that those who oppose him simply have no merit or legitimacy to their claims, he then propagates this to his followers by locking the thread rather than keeping it open.First of all, he knows full well that people cannot raise questions on his site as they risk being mocked, ostracized, and eventually banned. Furthermore, those who actually are willing to question have been permanently banned, yet he would like it to appear to his followers that he has won because no one came over there to argue their case against him.
This to me, is another example of his questionable character and deceptive practices. It’s also difficult for me to believe that this individual is the same person behind the numerous articles on the site, because this individual appears to be lacking in the ability to communicate. It is his behaviour–both his actions and in-actions, as well as those he has sanctioned–which has led me to question his site in the first place. He is only further leading me to believe that his motives are indeed questionable and shady.
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Lol. I know I said I was leaving , but the obvious deception and brainwashing is so powerful i am both amused and frightened!
Lol. I peeped how one of the members who asked a simple question about threads getting deleted wad told to “pm” him.
You get that ? He states “here i am to settle this for the world to see” , even using the term “man up” to entice questions and then once received whispers * meet me in the back to clear this up*
And NO ONE thought that was…..odd?!!!! To be honest I’m not even tripping anymore, i just can not even comprehend. This is true sheeple mentality.
It is like watching a super nova. I cant believe my eyes.
I am not suprised if there was an experiment, the specimen are unlike any ive seen!
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Lol yes, he now falsely encourages that they ask him questions, but they must be asked and answered in secrecy (though, I’m betting the auto-ban policy for one posing a “too curious” question in public may still be in effect). Apparently, no one finds it odd because they are deluded and completely blinded by their deceptive hero— if some do indeed find it odd, they are fearful of speaking out due to the negative reactions they may face for doing so. This is the type of cunning behaviour and negative climate VC has nurtured on his forum, and while it is plainly obvious to those of us who have ears to hear and eyes to see, his followers remain wholly ignorant of it.
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What alternative sites, are you guys using? any new ones? or is it ATS (racist and selective), or the David Icke forums which I haven’t looked at all that much.
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I’ll email you, we don’t want them to stalk us.
Ayaka has your email?
If not please post it
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I don’t have his e-mail, sorry about that.
I might ask Aeon if he knows.
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Pluto,
I’m not sure how the hell we are going to do this, but is there a private method you could send me your e-mail?
I’m afraid to do it here for fear of being stalked.
It’s too dangerous.
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I browse ATS from time to time. I stay in the conspiracy forums because it is indeed racist and selective especially in the “current events” section.
But if you ever want to just sit and read some information . I HIGHLY suggest (one of the filtered sites) – whoever “they” are they pull a bunch of stuff (even giving VC credit on pics) it is a databank of interesting info:
http://www.whale.to/b/symbols_h.html
It is AWESOME and the pics are amazing. Keep in mind there is no forum but i have been lost in the info for hours.
Another good one is
http://educate-yourself.org/
Now this one , the articles can be…out there, but its giving me much to think of.
Havn’t checked out the Icke forums.
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But you are no stranger to racism yourself femalepharoe judging by some of the threads that you made over at VC like: “White People do Not like other White People who can Sing”. Or is it only racism when it concerns darker skinned people?
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7019
Come to think of it you are also somewhat hypocritical in your feminist attitude towards men like: “”Masculinity” Cultivation (men) dangerous to society.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7420
I mostly enjoyed reading your posts over at VC but you do have a blind spot in recognizing the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye while paying no attention to the plank in your own eye.
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I was readin the educate yourself one and I have to admit, it is an awesome site. Right now I am reading the George Bush biography and what his Grand dad did
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I forgot to mention this here on the blog earlier, but I have tried to post images and links from Whale.to before on the VC message boards and I remember that I would get redirected to VC’s main site many of times. I was very lucky if a post containing a link or an image from whale.to ever got through.
An example would be the time I tried to post an image from the site and I got “It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image” when I tried to submit it.
How could it have not been possible? The image was below VC’s image size limit of 500 X 500 and I had [img] and [/img] at the start and the end, with the correct image URL (with .jpg at the end) in the middle
It’s almost like VC users weren’t allowed to use that site at all as a source to back up their statements.
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Yeah Pluto I just joined the Icke forums from a intelligence and quality standpoint it’s alot better of a fit.
I lurk Godlike Productions and ATS once in a while too.
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OH MY GOD YOU GUYS. I have just been hit with an epiphany! A God given moment of clarity! And as truthseer so kindly stated, as a true theorist, here is my revelation.
The VigilantCitizen site is INDEED disinformation and truly sinister two fold!!
1. The Jones group (toby) was allowed to exist in conjunction with the site. They are collecting “data” , but what for? We’ll get to that later. As the jones group noted they are selective of a certain category , and targeting young impressionable children to mold society to them and then, to be frank, sheeple. Notice that in these “supposed” uprisings the catalyst has been provided by VC’s own!! They use to only “refer” to Toby , but I would have never known about any of the sites supposedly belonging Toby had Hexa, the researcher, not posted the quotes and the link for us to go!
Why would he do this? It was a test. Periodically, if they don’t pick off people one by one and they just “disappear” without our knowledge they go through a weeding out and make it look like the ONE character known as Toby! Remember, how they kept saying that Toby created his own site and then just disappeared after he did this??? So why, I ask you, would a sociopath who is obsessed with Vigilant as much as they say – win the battle of “stealing” members only to abandon them?? Because they wanted to see not only who would leave , but also, who would grovel back!
I will have you recollect Orwell’s 1984 (if you have not read it please do so , as it is highly important to topics discussed in this vein) in which an all seeing controlling entity has brainwashed the people so well that they come to love him! Sound familiar? In the end we find out that there is no ONE big brother, like Toby and Like Vigilant. Because as someone who knows a little about media – there is no way that you have a site that slick, with those viewers, merchandise and domain with out have someone(s) on the pay role. Highly improbable. It is not different from the disappearing act of the fictitious characters and the ones on the boards. We should be flattered, we are the ones targeted as unstable variables for the outcome they want!! (notice that truthseer has been trolling forever but it was not until recently he was perm banned for trolling- count that with all of the NO WARNING removals : poof!)
2. (and this is me on my conspiracy tip) While I have been reading a few different things not having anything to do with VC , if you are open you can start to see the thread of things. One school of thought,from the illuminati world perspective, is that they bombard us with things as to get us “use” to their plans to follow. From the occult perspective, it has been said that Masonic images and other things appear purposely because through giving us these secrets they stick to their own codes and basically initiate us without our knowledge. If you are a read person of revelations, as I do not claim to be, one of the questions was “if you know the mark of the beast why would you receive it”? Obviously, it is through trickery and only the wise will refuse it.
THE SITE IS AN INITIATION! Remember the question of: “are we just seeing this more because we realize it, or are they doing it more now for publicity” .
HA! It is both! And the publicity is getting us accustomed to their rank and file in the order.
Let us rejoice that we have been removed.
Jones group. Is this accurate?
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nother thing, notice how I was banned after I decided to not Troll and specifically not troll you
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YES. you trolled me for..a long time..i actually thought it was funny because you are obviously highly intelligent. But as soon as you decided not to troll me or anyone else, you decided to become a problem to them that had to be eliminated ….makes you wonder.
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Why were you banned? What was the reason?
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reason given just said trollNO
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So that’s it. You stopped trolling and you were banned? No Toby, no Chainmaker accusations. No Gnostic stuff? Just stop trolling good members and you’re useless now?
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Strange,
I remember asking someone once as to why these symbols and all this information about the elite is out in the open these days now more so than ever.
They told me that the elite want us to know this stuff intentionally in order to condition us for a darker agenda.
The elite are really blatant about themselves these days. One of the biggest examples is the fact that there are a TON of websites devoted to the subject and yet none of them have been shut down. You would think that if the elite didn’t want us to know about this, those sites would have been quickly pulled from the internet, considering that the elite happen to own and control all of the internet.
Your post has just proven the answer I recieved even further.
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hmmmm. much to think of ayaka. too true…
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What makes it even stranger, is that this was my own mother who told me this. She’s just as aware of the elite as I am and this was yesterday I asked her about it.
Yep, she knows about my time on Vigilant Citizen because she saw me typing on my laptop one day and wanted an answer as to who I was typing to. I had to go into a long explanation about the site and everything that has happened so far.
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Hello,
I am leaning towards all this being a test specifically VC a recruiting ground for test subjects, the information they can garner from people on such sights is huge. The whole jones thing while initially odd and seemingly remote, is actually very plausible and believable.
That is true Ayaka, the reason to have it all out there goes way back to hiding things in plain sight, if the ones in control can put out propaganda on a genuine symbol/event or meaning then the masses will lean towards that and ridicules deviation from that controller created interpretation. As a society we are raised to look up to our peers, when you cannot trust your peers you begin to see things differently.
Truthseer/Ayaka/femalepharoe and anybody else, you can contact me at :
shadowrealm@live.co.uk
MysticShadow.
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Thanks Pluto,
I’m going to be e-mailing you right now!
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It is, I believe one of the rules of the Illuminati to reveal what they’re doing to the public but in such a way that it is still hidden. no idea where I read that though
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Interesting theory Ayaka and a ring of truth to it too.
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I’d like to see an answer to this too!
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Was
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5376&hilit=computer+blocked
another large attempt to block users?
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Is Dat you smashbro’s?
Want to see my tits too? I will put up a picture of them here tomorrow.
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AH YES!
I remember that day! Notice how all of the reasonable (regardless of their personal beliefs) and non trolling (at the time) members are all saying the same thing!!!
And Hexa who was not a mod at the time , came in with that EXACT same script.
Also notice how Cheers, the shill, at first backed up that it was a server down-delighted with the answer- and then once people started reporting it she joined in.Only to then , assure the people once a stock answer was provided!!
When a “server is down” as they claim ; to my understanding it is not selective as to who can get in. It is DOWN!
Those people are on the watch list.
And I also believe that it was correct that their are shill accounts that embodies stereotypes or …internet personas…if you will – in order to be a catalyst, herder… etc.
Though I do not wish to be mean, the shill Cheers employs is one of educational intimidation. (some may argue that I was similar – but I am not a paid shill and used the …force for good and not evil . Lol) Its safe to say that a lot of people are insecure and uncomfortable. In her own, passive aggressive way to the untrained or insecure seeker she can shut you downn-I’ve seen it many many times.SO much so , that getting any praise from her is nothing short of a miracle.
Having her chime in and read from the script, knocked in people’s conditioning that “cheers is smarter than I – Cheers is right”. And when that wasn’t working she had to go along only to reaffirm that there was “no problem after all”
You nailed it.
People please stay away from this site.
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Of course, let’s not forget the fact that Cheers was always intentionally starting fights with anme1984/Astral Gemini_1984
and for the ultimate irony, I actually remember Katarzyna/CIA/Russian Nika once admiting that Cheers was a paid disinfo agent to everyone that was in Tinychat (Vigilant Citizen chat room) that day, including myself.
Makes you wonder even more about Cheers.
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This is getting stupid and your all getting out of control paranoid now. Read that thread again and even truthseer said he had no problem so was he part of the inner circle then too? Oh I guess he was and the negativity he’s spouting off now must just be controlled opposition. Arggg so dumb!!! Will everyone stop pissing on Cheers!!! What has she done to any of you? Truthseer got banned for harrassing her and telling people all kinds of stuff about her so then its true that he’s part of the D12
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Maybe I didn’t have problems because I’m not from the West but from the East
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there is only 1 registerd user over there…ive never seen that before ::locks door::
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I find it some what egotistical to assume that people who have been banned or who question VC would notice the “So apparently Im a disinfo agent” post and be able to respond in the quick time it was open for posting.
Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:41 pm it was created
Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:30 pm it was closed
I understand why it was closed, but it would have been nice for it to be open for a few weeks to see if people who had questions could post a response.
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The best thing to do guys is just move in and let that forum go back to being dead their feeding off this drama anyways.
If you feel the need to retaliate lmao just quote what they said and email it to me.
aeonfluxvc@yahoo.com
Meanwhile I’ll be on the Icke forums not giving a shit.
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Exactly as aeon said. And for most of you who are disgruntled about the bans, just remember, every time you go on vc, you make him money
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How?
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Ads
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But you have to click on them for him to make money, don’t you? I don’t doubt there are a lot of idiots who do, and especially so after the GIN experiments on his site.
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Reka,
I would suggest, if you care to, Reading “why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria”. One of theories by some studied individuals is that race or racism is directly related or contrived from the stance of social power.
Thus people who have no social power , may be prejudice, but not racist as they are only reactionary to their environment.
For example, can a woman be sexist?
My threads where a means for dialogue.
Log in my eye?
We are all trying to see clearer, but in these instances mines may just be different grain of wood.
Thanks for the discussion.
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Would stealing a bread when hungry make it more understandable or righteous?
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Is it unrighteous to allow someone to steal bread, if you have plenty at your disposal?
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There’s something about the way ktg types that screams “attention whore” and “retard.” Can’t quite put my finger on it.
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Yup. Now let’s start flashing our tits all over the place to really take the message home.
From one dead prez to the next
I did have relationz with that woman!
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Looks like the comment of female pharao really hit something as they send their obfuscation-agents over here, or did I miss the irony of your post, Lewinsky?
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Two words, NOT ME!
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What’s wrong, you don’t like boobs Chauk?
FYI, my boobs totally trump Shannon “Banana-boobs” Darko……ewwwwwww
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shut up looser
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Don’t act innocent
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Shut up you fat jew bag
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Okay, Banana boobs are when you have gigantic saggy tits. O__o
Weight: 100 pounds.
Height: 5’5
I’m a very petite girl, it would be a miracle to have gigantic boobs xD Your tits probably do trump mine ❤ 🙂
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Not that we care but don’t you think we don’t care?
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OK Chaukeeeee you asked a good question
{Great input here, thanks a lot! Those people in the background of VC, GIN and such sites more and more look to me like a bunch of conscienceless marketing drones that are mostly after the money rather than serving a real disinformation agenda (Mitch Joel, Kevin Trudeau a.s.o.). They’re occult and possibly satanists, for sure, and by hiding that they harm the readers and the good cause a lot. I don’t know, my intuition goes back and forth between money versus disinformation. Maybe both? Don’t know what you guys think about their motives.}
Money and boobs make the world go round don’t you know? You find a lot of both at the vigilant citizen. We flash our boobs, talk about sex get all the kids hooked while the ads posted there make us a lot of money money money money money.
MUNEEE
remember money IS the root of all evil and evil is the root of all money
Mitchie and Michael are geniuses as are all the supporters from the network of websites that feed into this project
http://stuffgate.com/vigilantcitizen.com
Vigilantcitizen.com is ranked #19,647 in the world according to the one-month Alexa traffic rankings and 5 out of 10 according to Google Pagerank. The site was founded 3 years ago. Vigilantcitizen.com has the potential to earn $21,814 USD in advertisement revenue per year. If the site was up for sale, it would be worth approximately $152,695 USD. Vigilantcitizen.com is rated 4.0 out of 5.0 by StuffGate.
Oh yeah baby, so who am I? Mitch? Michael? Toby? Henrik? Daciple? Monica? Or does it even matter?
You pointed out earlier that all negative press makes the sale better than positive press. Not quite, but close. It goes like this, and we the “Press People” would know, dontchathink?
All press is GOOOD PRESS.
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Now, you know I know who this is.
You really should switch up your writing style if you want to continue to be so ….anonymous.
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Kat your retarded. I love how you were banned from this forum as CIA. Now you are sucking Vig’s dick while using the same proxy (wow really) so he won’t ban you. LOL
You made stupid threads on the old forums i.e “is it a sin to pray naked” and their still retarded now.
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Who were you on the old boards AeonFlux and how do you know I’m using the same proxy unless your talking to one of the mods? you dont!
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Does it really matter who I was in the grand scheme of things. Identities can be created out of thin air online I could be a 64 year old woman for all you know. And trust me I know.
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Im sure you know. What was your username on the old forums aeon? that’s all I’m asking. so if you know I was using the same proxy then a mod told you and so you can’t be trusted here. Whatevs your all liars!
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“Money and boobs make the world go round don’t you know? You find a lot of both at the vigilant citizen. We flash our boobs, talk about sex get all the kids hooked while the ads posted there make us a lot of money money money money money.”
Well, at least she was honest on that one.
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Here’s something to ponder for a minute:
Katarzyna is commonly referred to as “Kat”.
Take away the “K” in “Kat” and replace it with a “C” and you get the word “Cat”.
Is it possible that “Katarzyna” (K/Cat) could be a Monarch Programmed sex kitten alter persona?
Maybe this explain the nude photos under the “Russian Nika” name along with starting a good majority of the site’s sex-related threads and constantly mentioning pornography in the chat room.
Also, if you consider the “CIA” persona, you would notice that there was a difference in the writting patterns. This gave the assumption that “CIA” was male. A male alter perhaps?
If I remember correctly “Katarzyna” did claim a couple of times that “she” was actually a KGB agent in disguise. KGB/CIA are both well known spy organizations.
Perhaps this could have explained how “she” managed to somehow “know” all of the VC users automatically. I know this for real because “she” would tell me a lot of things concering their private information. What she told me were things that VC users wouldn’t have dared to tell you, even if you asked them nicely. Maybe this person is an information gatherer?
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Validate it by telling us who you are and what she or me told you? :p
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Why are you even asking this question you and me both know it’s Hartwell.
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Wow was that something you just came up with? Just because I got a lot of attention from the guys at the forums and more than you probably did doesn’t mean you need to be all jelly and bitchy about it and make up this bs story.
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Hartwell wouldn’t do that Chainmaker. So obvious that it’s you, your all mad that he banned you for catching on that you are Chainmaker that your trying to drive a wedge between us at the forums again. How sad. How else would you know about the old forums and what was said there or not. They busted you and now your all butthurt! Busted!
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Your arguments have no logic lmao. If I was Chain I would just create a new persona and go back to preaching. I’m simply here to expose Vigilant for the disinfo media pawn he is.
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Well why don’t you just say who you were on the old board and who told you I was using the same proxy or like truthseer your just controlled opposition then!! welcome to the D12 aeon another peon
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Well if you dont tell me who told you that I was using the same proxy then it’s obvious your either Toby or one of the VC insiders yourself!
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this is not me!!! it’s one of toby’s crew again. you guys are all so dumb believing anything he tells you
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Yeah I’m sure Toby was in the chat-room if he was his name was Leroy.
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didn’t you just say that anyone can say anything online and create any id? Well whats so hard to believe that Toby just came up with a new name and nothing even that creative like Leroy? Why are you so scared of telling us who you were at the old forums “aeon”?
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long time lurker buddy
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whatevs Chain whatevs!!!
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hence the name silent observer..I didn’t feel the need to register and make sex threads..sorry to disappoint.
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sure whatevs and I guess you just felt like registering in november with the dead presidents too? your probably all the same if not chain then toby
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John F Kennedy registered on November 12
Aeonflux (Silent Observer) on November 13
Lyndon B Johnson on November 14
and they all support and high five each other all around the forums. Its so obvious even Spektrall spotted it a mile away!!
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About 650-700 posters join every month since the forums opened at the end of April. There’s always a possibility of 3 like-minded posters joining within the same month. Besides Aeon barely posted in religion anyways. If 33 percent of the world is labelled as Christian then it must be safe to say that out of 700 posters that join in the month of November at least 2 will profess their faith and 1 will occasionally talk about it.
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Spektrall is just jelly. He wants high fives. XD
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well well well lets look at this
on 13/12/2011 at 23:03 | Reply SilentObserver
Aeon email me at : silentobservervcATyahoo The offers open for anyone else as well
on 14/12/2011 at 04:49 | Reply SilentObserver
Btw I love how this retarded frum is only alive to try to smear us all as “Toby”.
Toby has long gone from those forums if he has ever existed to think that anyone opposing would be labeled such is laughable in the least.
So aeon you say you were around before the boards went down and saw my threads but your pretending like Toby never existed? Scuze me! If you were around then you would know of Toby. Then on the 13th you pretend that your not aeon by asking him to email you. Busted again.
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Even Hexa admits it
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All the posts under my name haven’t been my own.
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Alot of posters have told me about you anyways how you’re still under Vig’s payroll even though you’ve lost your mod. The whole “Toby” persona was a fictitious ploy under the direction of Mickael Kanfi to remove the fundamental christian presence on the Vigilant Citizen Message Boards.
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Chaukeedaar,
I would be honored.
Thank you.
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Thank you, my very much appreciated contributor! Finally I found time to add an update to the article.
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The one known as Chainmaker, I believe unwittingly played an important role in the sinister plan.
Let everyone keep in mine that most people have been banned for IDEAS, theories, and discussion. I was even almost warned for inciting emotion and, yes, “saracasm”.
Yet , as the moderator known as Tweeterfist, states over and over again the “Religion” forum was fair game.
Why?
Well, again, we were (supposed) to be discussing topics that in general break and enslave the soul. Why would be discouraged to think yet allowed, EVEN encourage to go neck to neck in the topic of faith?
Chainmaker, in his last post which was actually a public melt down, was notorious for not “enciting emotion” or being “sarcastic” or “trolling” but specifically calling board active board members “satanist”, “baby rapers” and assuring that they would “go to hell”.
In that same post, I must admit that his racist taunts rile my feathers and I went at him a little harder than I should. It became apparent that he was mentally unstable. Yet within all of those pages, upwards of 20 I believe, even vigilant himself popped in to warn several times but did NOTHING.
Through allowing him to stay as long as he did, and return as many times as he did, he became a disinfo agent to the positive light force of Christianity (not to say that this is the only one..etc etc) And in general was allowed to spread chaos confusion and hate.
But he was volatile to the equation because, as confused as he was, his information of the bible could NOT be disputed (as incorrectly attributed as it was). I actually learned a lot from him script wise.
One need only take a small peak at the discussions allowed to go on in the “religion” forum now to see that it is being used as a tool to break the spirit instead of a healthy discussion. Further, invalidating how the positive soul , spirit and God plays a role in this rancid nightmare -which the site supposedly “reports” on.
For example (keep in mind that the forum rules are to be sensitive in this forum and people have been banned for nothing):
Was Genesis 2:16-17 a lie?
How many gifts are you supposed to give on Xmas?
Jesus was gay because….
So we see. That the MOST important forum on this site in regards to ..ya know…Satan and evil. lol. Is the only one that is allowed to tear people down.
It is sad Chainmaker, who they continually associate as the pinnacle of Christianity, did not see this sooner….
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ya right, that’s why Vig banned him finally for life!
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and now he’s hear as silent observer
3> this shit
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RN, question, why are you all giving this blog so much attention and hits?
All publicity is good publicity, remember?
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I had enough of Toby inspired lies affecting me and my friends at VC and your all just jealous that VC is successful and has the best forum on the internet for this kind of information. If your all really heading to ATS or Icke forums good luck with all the cointelpro there! Loosers!
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VC is a crock of lies. I did some sneakiness on my part and all I discovered were lies and deceit, smh.
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http://runkeeper.com/user/tishakanfi/profile
VC and Wife
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Dude that is creepy lmfao. how did you find that?
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its fake! its just Toby and company making up stories again!!!! you guys are so dumb
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RN, you’re fake
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Ya that one is fake. I’m not!
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but I agree with what the fake me said and you guys are all Toby’s trolls and bitches.
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Erm I’m def NOT Toby. Lmao at THAT.
Anyways,
That Pic was Mickael and Tisha Kanfi, whom I believe to be Mr. And Mrs. VC.
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I got a mail from SilentObserver, the above one is a fake
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Either I am fake or you are Katarzyna. 😉
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I pick you’re a fake
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Kat do something more productive with your life then defending a disinfo media pawn.
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Vigilant Citizen is awesome. You’re just jealous he’s handsome and of Kat’s beautiful boobs
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Toby likes talking to himself, he’s done it before
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Wonder where Loki and his peen went :*
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Ask truthseer. 😉
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I mean *coughs* Katarzyna
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Whatever, you guys are just jealous of him
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Please, I am truthseer. VC is awesome. You guys are trolls.
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both Toby, so obvious
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Lol. Love how Chaukee doesn’t censor. Good on ya mate.
Did y’all like VCs Halloween Pic x:
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Hey FakersGalore,
I’m right now thinking about placing the word “Toby” in the filter, can’t hear it anymore 😉 (just kidding). And besides, thats not even a nice name to my ears…. Ok, “chaukeedaar” isn’t nice either 🙂
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http://www.twistimage.com/en/who-we-are/our-leadership/tisha-kanfi
Tisha Kanfi ^
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Hexa, a paid shill to spread new age. ADMITTED
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How do you know that was really him? And if it was, are you certain he was not just humoring you? What was said there, may very well be the case, but I think more context/background is needed in order to make a more accurate assessment (for me anyway).
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not have more screenshots but here is what happened. Hexa and Laya invited me to chat to discuss what I wrote here though they said it was to review my ban. Then Hexa said, no you’re banned and judgmental. I said that you’re one to say, you just lump nonlight as evil. He asked whether I believed. Playing along, I said, yes, then the part printscreen followed by we’re done, bye
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Your just jelly that your not allowed back on because your the biggest troll in the world and now have joined with Toby. Sucker!
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Who cares if they’re shills or not eh? Do you enjoy the articles and some of the comments? Let them get on with it and refrain from harassing them like bunny boilers/fishwives. Otherwise you’ll prevent them from producing more very good read material that some of us enjoy thoroughly.
Now have a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year everybody.
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WOW, this is just getting extremely ridiculous, and on both ends! First of all, why are people like “Kat” even over here STILL? Didn’t you say you had better and more significant things in your life to concern yourself with? You continue replying…please just give it a rest! You accuse us of being all sorts of things for commenting over here, yet you continue to do so yourself; you agreed that this doesn’t concern you, so why are you still here? I really don’t understand why you keep coming back unless you have something at stake in this whole mess.This is an open uncensored forum for those of us who would like to express how we feel about a situation.
Secondly: as for those of us who are here to expose VC, (either to expose him as a disinformation agent or to bring to light his questionable practices), let’s stick to that. His staunch supporters will remain ignorant and we’re not here to entertain them. People who are willing to see should know how VC truly operates.
In that vein, I would like to bring the following to your attention: VC opened a new thread called “Addressing a few issues.”
see: http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8645
He opens with: “We’ve seen in the past week some issues arise concerning the moderation of the forum. We realize that a lot of the drama could have been averted if there was a little more communication and transparency from the moderators concerning decisions. So, to reduce misunderstandings, rumors and disputes, we will proceed this way:” He then proceeds to list new guidelines for moderation.
As usual, the thread itself has digressed into pure stupidity as most threads on there do (which is perfectly acceptable to VC). Anyhow, there were two comments posted on there from two individuals who had been banned. Those comments have now been deleted, and I presume that those individuals have been banned again as well. Despite what he says in his post, people are STILL being censored for posing questions! How utterly ridiculous is that?! I had an inkling this would happen, so I took an image capture of the posts at the time.
Here are the posts that have now been removed. To VC’s followers– this is what he doesn’t want you to see. To those of us on here disillusioned with this shady character, this is just another prime example of his deceit, lies, and hypocrisy:
1) http://postimage.org/image/r4xh8mktl/
2) http://postimage.org/image/4u5umnrlj/
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Well done, io, that are the ways of a great truth exposer!
Still wish I would have made a full screenshot of several VC pages when the GIN add was up. It was so bright and obvious back then that I did not think of that…
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Thank you Chaukeedaar. I greatly appreciate you opening up your blog to us and allowing us to continue this discussion here, despite how crazy it has been at times. I sincerely thank you for this.
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For posting on there, in a supposedly “open and transparent” thread, after following Tweeterfists advice to re-join with a new username.. My IP has now been permanently banned. Very open and member driven forum I must say.
In that very thread (linked above) VC states how they are now being even more transparent etc and will never ban without cause or warning..Why then after posting in the thread do I now see this.
http://postimage.org/image/ayy8f6a8b/
Yes I did post after my initial message, questioning a moderator for not acknowledging the post, but I was not dis-respectful or aggressive. I was not a troll, my post count was 2. There is no question as to the validity of what has been exposed during the course of this blog with multiple users saying the same things.
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Creating the illusion of freedom it’s exactly what goes on in our own country.
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BRAVO, io!
Thank you for so eloquently stating what I and many others have seen with our own eyes!
Again thanks for stating the TRUTH.
I saw those comments with my own eyes!
VC is SHADY.
Head for the hills if you have any sense, leave VC he is uber shady!
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Thank you FakersGalore, I have more evidence of this shady behaviour. My hope is that those who are blind to VC’s deceitful tactics can become more open and willing to see them. When this drama first ensued, the moderator “Tweeterfist” was involved and after finally witnessing that something was not quite right with the way some users had been handled, he agreed that more transparency and communication between the moderators and users was necessary. In the “So apparently, I’m a disinfo agent” thread, Twitterfist himself made the following statement (found on page 11):
“I’m really getting the picture here that we all need to be a bit more transparent and communicative with our decisions… I haven’t even deleted a thread myself really, but I know if I was to do it, a PM would follow. One of the big reasons PMs were installed was so us mods could speak personally to people about such things…”
I assume that with Tweeterfist’s urging, the moderators and VC had a meeting in which they agreed that they should at least give the image that they promote fairness and are willing to listen to any questions or concerns users might have about the forum and leadership. While Tweeterfist may have recognized that something was awry with the moderation and may have had good intentions in calling this to light, it appears that VC saw it as an opportunity to make it seem to his followers that he is a fair and reasonable individual and that anyone who was banned, was banned for violating his rules (hence the eventual creation of the “Addressing a few issues” thread). With that stated, have a look at this:
A user created a thread called “The recent troll activity,” which can be found here (with some omissions): http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8567 The OP doesn’t say much about the situation at hand nor does he mention what has been unfolding on this blog, as he appears to be unaware of this entirely. He instead makes a commentary on “trolling” in general (side note: as we know, most users on there are ignorant of what is truly going on, but I digress…)
Someone under the username “Lola” posted in response to the OP, and made the following statement:
“Lola”merely pointed out the fact that anyone who asks questions is banned. “Lola” then listed some of the banned members. Not surprisingly, in pipes the ban-happy social fraternizing moderator ”Hartwell” who– upon remembering the discussion that he with the other mods and VC , regarding the new rules of transparency–childishly and begrudgingly posts the following:
First he proclaims they are now abiding by a new rule of transparency, but then either he (or VC), later goes ahead and REMOVES the post made by Lola, AFTER the closing the thread –it wasn’t enough for them to just simply close the thread, but they felt the need to remove the post on top if it. In addition to that, keep in mind that the OP requested the thread to be DELETED, yet they chose to leave the thread up with a lock on it, after systematically removing anything in that thread that would counter the image they would like to promote of themselves. Therefore, they can say they are being “transparent,” and make it appear as such to their users by choosing to close the thread rather than deleting it entirely, when they’ve already removed the “offending” comments.
This is the snake-like game VC and his mod crew like to play. So much for transparency!
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Hartwell just did the right thing and left it without deleting it since it was you guys and you guys would have cried if it was deleted and then linked screenshots here like your doing now, like obvious!!! Spek is talking about the dead presidents who are also you guys trolling the place and Vig hasn’t banned you guys for that yet, so why aren’t you complaining about that? Trolls!
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nice IO 🙂
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@Kat, you completely missed the point, but that’s to be expected and of course you would say that your little mod buddy Hartwell “did the right thing.” Hartwell CLOSED the thread but they DELETED the post that questioned VC. My point is, (as SilentObserver truthfully sated), they create the illusion of freedom meanwhile suppressing and censoring people who dare speak the truth. I didn’t “troll” anywhere, so please keep that tiresome line to yourself.
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P.s.
I think this was stated, but just reiterating,
Chaukee,
On VC they are claiming your Site is Toby and Co., LOL maybe you should go on over to VC and confront them!
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Nobody is allowed to say anything negative about VC or anything which backs up any of this, or you just get banned. They don’t allow any form of countering what they say.
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Hey FakersGalore,
No way, I’ve read enough from all your previous forum members to waste my time with that 😉 And I also don’t want to present my current IP address to them on a table, don’t want to be treated like femalepharo by these dark souls…
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6615&start=110
Kat: Anyways, I really like porn
What a fine person who loves children. I wonder how she acts around children and wish she doesn’t have.any. Though I can imagine what her and kids watch at night together. Call child service
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whats your point troll? I just dont see it. So what if I like having good sex with my partners? You sound jealous and I dont have kids either.
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To anyone listening or anyone who cares the above named user “Kat” is not me, it is an imposter. I’m the real Katarzyna from vigilant citizen and this will be my last comment here. Anyone coming in after this is an imposter a faker and a joke! Get a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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From the “Porn Stars” thread:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6615&start=110
Katarzyna (Kat):
“Anyways, I really like porn and I know, it’s probably not the right thing and the actors are treated like shit because of the business aspect, but I think it is handled by people in different ways. I think if you can’t go without porn for a day or two, you’re addicted, no doubt. If you watch it every once in a while, I don’t think it’s that bad… Ok, this is probably going to sound crazy. But porn helped me get over a really bad relationship I was in. I held such a torch for this guy, became suicidal when we were done, slashed my wrist to the point where I was in the er and had a guard outside my room to make sure I wouldn’t do anything further that night. (I’m totally better now though) I made such a big deal about him and a factor of that was sex. I think I could only get off when I thought of having sex with him. I started watching porn and it was a slow but sure process, that I finally got over that mentally. I know the industry is horrible, and I wish it wasn’t. I wish these people weren’t exploited to this extent, honestly I don’t look in to their lives much. I go on y.o.u.p.o.r.n. and watch a vid or two and I’m done. I don’t think it’s inherently evil but I think it can be to some people. I just wish we didn’t paint with broad brushes and stigmatize or stereotype.
As for the honesty factor, I’ve had sex like a porn star has sex, so I don’t see much different for me personally… It can be for a lot of people though, but I tend to be more openminded when it comes to sex so certain things don’t freak me out or make porn necessarily “fake””
Again, same thread:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6615&start=30
Katarzyna (Kat):
“You bring up a lot of good points that I honestly hadn’t thought of. A lot of it is fake, for a very long time, I was afraid of a guy having sex with me because I was afraid of getting myself waxed completely, since that seems to be the “look”. Later on I figured that a little bit is cool and can be achieved with shaving, but the waxing and g e n i t a l s part… yeesh. lol. It made me self conscious about myself, for sure even though I don’t naturally have a lot of hair.
Sorry if this is tmi, by the way.
And, as for the positions, there are some that I’m just like, wtf? Are these circus performers, but then there are some scenes, such as where a guy will take a girl over to a piano and slowly touch/play her instead of the keys as her skirt lifts which I find hot. I’m definitely not in to violence, like punching a girl, but I like dominance. I’ll even watch h e n t a i sometimes, as weird as it is. One time I found a dragon ball z p o r n and I couldn’t stop laughing, but it was still pretty hot.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6615&start=10
Katarzyna (Kat):
“I think it just depends. I don’t find porn all that bad to be honest. I don’t think we should lump them all together, and I think many of them may do it because they’ve lost their souls at some point. They think no one cares for them and the only good they are is for their bodies. It’s sad…
I’m a girl, I’ve watched porn, and I don’t find it so damaging but I don’t think I could ever do what they do. It’s really a mixed bag. I honestly feel that if it wasn’t porn and the regulations, they would be prostitutes though, you can’t change what people are sometimes. I think a porn actress is safer than a prostitute at least.”
Here’s the first page of the thread for those who want to start at the beginning. I think that the “Porn Stars” thread is living proof of the mentality of the majority of VC’s users:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6615
This thread is disgusting. I don’t understand how these girls are able to be so open about their sexuality.
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OMG you guys just don’t give up, you just create new names to continue talking bs about anyone on VC who doesnt believe he’s a disinfo agent, and just leave RN alone she’s been through enough!
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Ok so I am a regular lurker of VC for awhile now commenting every now and than. I have noticed for sometime that the infomative interesting posts get derailed and discredited by some of the regular posters. I also noticed this clique mentality within the forums which is to be expected, but it was increasingly frustrating when I would be reading comments on a good post and these kids would come on with their inside jokes and idiotic comments completly derailing the entire posts. It was almost intentional IMO. So anyway when I found out one of my favorite poster was banned and noticed the more intelligent informative people werent their anymore I decided to do research and found this site. Thank God I did, all the pieces fit now, I guess I wont be going to VC anymore…readi,g througj those tedious posts just to find one gem isnt worth the headache.
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Hey someone,
You are exactly the person I wrote this article for, so it was worth it!
I’m sure you will find a more honest online home where you can exchange about the truth we are all trying to find.
Cheers, Chaukee
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LOL. Ah.
You ever wonder how “Person A” will post on an obscure sight questioning VC and then “The Real Person A” will come out of nowhere right behind the “fake” and say that : “I just happened across this site, that person is a copy cat!!!”
Now I don’t know about you, but I highly doubt they have a detector to pick up when anyone , from any place , at any time posts something with their VIGILANT CITZEN SCREEN NAME on it on the world wide web that alerts them to “copy catting”.
It is so obvious that these posters find a “vc exposed” thread and then causes confusion and distraction by playing this little “who’s who game”.
You are not talking to the idots!!
Also , I find it funny that Kat/Russian Nika is over here trying to defend the”truth” that we “got all wrong”.
I’ll have you all know that it was Kat who told me, while not addressing any of the issues to : “Just tell VC that you were mislead by Toby”
………………
Now whether she believes this or not, the fact that she would encourage me to deduce myself to lying and sweeping shit under the rug is very telling of her character.
Also, we can see another prime example of the brainwashing tactics that the site has utilized.
PEOPLE, VC is supposedly a site ABOUT exposing the “sinister” TRUTH. THAT is what it is about. THAT is why the sites dealings are so puzzling , and as I like to say, MUST be identified and watched!!!
THe poster Kat (who she boasts as being close to VC) has come over here, not addressing any of the relevant issues. Once exposed, she neither confirms nor denies the truth, instead tries to bait the exposer into knowing his “old board name” …..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WTF!!?!? What difference does it make. Why do you care?
It is like the old popular high school harlot, desperately hanging on to her unsavory past.
What a disgrace.
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Are you calling me a whore? What did Chaukee say to Toby’s puppet Gyro about using that name? He said it crossed the line and I expect that he follows through and deletes your comment bitch! I was only trying to help you do the right thing because anyone who doesn’t have eye folds on can see that this is a Toby formulation here. Ya, you heard me all if it is Toby’s doing and if you have half a brain you would figure it out!
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Lol I am not Toby this is so sad (none of us are) my username on the old forums was nykballa and before that I was a lurker. You’re so brainwashed it isn’t even funny.
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it was an analogy and it is a word in the dictionary. You don’t read often do you?
Again, the site has clouded your mind into thinking that you can attack people bc someone said a “word” was outlawed. Or in this case, a synonym to a word in an analogy. LOLOLOL
You incorrectly claimed, or rather…lol..questioned bc not even you understands…that I called you an “outlawed word” then turns around and calls me a bitch while stating you hope I get my comment DELETED.
Hahahaha. You see, Do you see how these people feel entitled and that the rules of the “VIgilant CItizen Message Board” applies to any conversation going on all over the internet!!! They are INSANE.
And for the record> I’ve been called a lot worse by far better chica.
If I am one, I’m the baddest, flyest, illest one you ever did come across, which is evident by your self implosion.
WARNING: I’ve not even skimmed the surface of the deception and I’m not going to be called too many more b**tch*s by broads wearing belly shirts and tank tops….ya dig?
loveyoumean it 🙂
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“Nykballa” or whatever you say your name is now. Loki said you were active on Toby’s forums so obviously your here on his behalf and are his puppet or you were always Toby to begin with. http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7596&start=40 it’s half way down where he identifies you as an active poster on Toby’s abandoned boards, but at the top you can see Truthseer being the good little faker that he is and supporting the weeding out process just waiting for his chance to start trolling again.
and look more proof that truthseer was in on this from the beginning as he found all these blogs http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8092 Wonder why? Its because he supported and helped formulate it all from the beginning.
and here’s aeonflux’s thread on VC being an initiation site like Femalepharoe said above also showing how they all had this whole defame campaign planned from the beginning http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7123
and look at this one about exercising anyone on VC http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7317 just shows more and more that you guys had this all planned out from the beginning. Ambroise is in on it too because you mentioned him in that thread and in the who’s Toby thread he tries to deflect the blame away from Toby by telling everyone to stop thinking about it. It’s so easy to see through your guys plan of disruption. Like I said, jealousy!!!
this is my last post here so you little children have fun, I’m out!
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Female pharoe, your a fake too. You guys are all brainwashed by Toby and probably sent in by him in the first place, actually that’s it that’s why you asked the Jones group above if your right, its because you guys are all following the same scripted story. So obvious!!!
I’m out!
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femalepharoe: THe poster Kat (who she boasts as being close to VC) has come over here, not addressing any of the relevant issues. Once exposed, she neither confirms nor denies the truth, instead tries to bait the exposer into knowing his “old board name” …..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
___________________________________________________________
She even told us all once in the chatroom; that she maintains e-mail contact with Vigilant even after her moderator days and talk about posters (in this instance Gatecrasher). Nothing she says can be taken seriously and this ex-moderator is part of a smear campaign run by Vigilant.
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Liar Nykballa Toby clone, where are the screen shots for that? Nowhere because it never happend!
I’m out, you guys have fun with your little jealous Vigilant Citizen smear campaign.
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one last thing Femalepharoe
(<3)
bye!!!!
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@Kat, how did this Toby character formulate anything? I don’t know Toby, and never heard of him before until you all started to accuse some of us of either being him or working with him. We are just former users of VC who have been banned and had our posts deleted for no clear reason –this is what has led us to become suspicious of VC and his intentions. Please, get that through your head!
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If your Nyk then Laaya should be able to vouch for it because you guys used to chat in social a lot of the old boards!
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Katarzyna: “I’m out!”.Finally! If you don’t see the deeper truth in female pharaos words and call her fake I don’t see the point in wasting your time over here anyway. Except you feed from the negativity you produce.
Kat: “What did Chaukee say to Toby’s puppet Gyro about using that name?” As you seem to have problems in thoroughly reading, let me say it more precisely: It was the overall negativity and humiliating in Gyro’s comment that I addressed, not a specific word in it (otherwise I should have reacted much sooner).
As female pharao already pointed out, you guys have adopted an obedience over there at VC’s board to an imaginary paradigm that is not adequate for responisble citizens.
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To VC:
It is true that the best form of good business is customer service. You have wisely built yourself up as an idol among sheeple. Or perhaps, you are just a young douche with poor social skills and great business sense and have stumbled into an interesting and lucrative niche.
Whatever the case, if you want to continue to run your sham snake oil sale- I would advise that you get some smarter straw men and minions to execute your wishes. The ones you have now seriously need an upgrade.
To the VC zombies coming over:
You are but lame weasels agitating woken bears and lions. If you do not want to be called out, checked, humbled…etc. You should stick you head back in the ground and drone on about your day.
WE are attempting to expose to the public the truth.
There are some people who are actually looking. There are some people who like to read, and think and apply those thought to moral responsibility EVEN if on the internet.
This is an inconvenience to you though. Your puny little egos will not allow you to say “I may have been tricked and I was wrong” so you have to attack us.
Its cool, but if you don’t want YOUR motivations and the part you play in the story discussed I would advise you stop creating topics about the subject at hand as a joke, or attacking people who say anything about us that is not negative.
VC has clouded your mind into thinking that you have the right to censor us bc youve been kicking the can in the “high school” clique that is that joke of a conspiracy site.
You don’t , and WE don’t owe you anything. As soon as you remember that, the …easier this will be for you.
🙂
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Another well-said post :D.
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Absoluetly – I’m so glad I did not close the discussion despite the childish posts that are nothing more than an attempt to hijack the discussion (“my name got abused”, porn and tits here, Toby there, weep, weep).
Its for such high level analysis and positive input like from female pharao, io and many others, that I thank God to have you all met here!
Love it!
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OMG what if Vig is Toby and FP and all these comments are from the same group of people. OMG.
NOT!
You guys are so dumb!
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Now, On Toby:
Let’s just take a step back….imagine if you will…that you have an ex who is harassing you. You move, and change you number, and email..but after all that someone you think is your ex is still contacting you. During this time , youve only confided in one person your locations and contacts, your best dear friend (who you’ve actually never met as they’re you’re pen pal)
Would it be plausible to assume that maybe your pen pal is the harraser? Or at least “giving out” the information.as no one else has it???
I say that to say, that all of the PROOF that these fools have of Toby: 1.existing and 2.continuing to do all of this stuff for no reason other than he inexplicably hates VC that he will go through any elaborate scheme (laying in wait for months on diff blogs, spamming emails, employing “decoys” all over the interent) to discredit and harass him and users.
(what are we , in the comic strips – is Toby in actuality “The Joker”? – if that’s the world we’re living in I got dibs on Storm…)
All of this PROOF has been provided by VC himself! The Proof screenshot that Kat had of THIS site being VC (that she incorrectly understood as being created on a certain day) Was spoon fed to her by VC.
They have NO PROOF OR THEORIES THEY HAVE ASCERTAINED themselves!
Futhermore…………Tobias Jones?? Really, that’s his name is it? And he can do all of this stuff to know your name and location but no one knows who or where he is but outright swear that his name is Tobias Jones! Oh , but he is a normal person.
..right..
I strike a motion that the next VC boogey man created by VC be:
Bartholomew Higgins Wainwright III.
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edit: *this site being Toby.
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It makes me think of that episode of The Twilight Zone, with the gremlin on the wing of the plane.. “It was Toby I tell you!! He’s real!!”
Phantom character they can bring up anytime such is his spectral power. Never-mind reality where one simple google search about VC banning will link you to this same scenario going back to early last year.
Shhh! Don’t let them know about Bartholomew Higgins Wainwright III! that’s too deep for them!
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hahahahah
Yes.
mums the word.
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Wow ok so I see what you are all talking about. I posted on a thread VC himself made called “Regarding Some Issues” I simply asked why an earlier comment that was legit and asking intelligent questions regarding the banning of members and deletion of posts was DELETED… I asked why VC erased this post which wasnt inflammatory. Well I checked back later to see if he responded and my and everyone elses except one was deleted and the thread locked! This sealed the deal for me…something fishy is for sure going on.
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Ok then who are you and what did you post on that thread that was deleted or are you just making it up like the rest of them?
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What “someone” said is precisely true as that is exactly what happened to us. A simple google search on VC’s questionable practices will show you that numerous people have experienced this, you just don’t want to see what is right in front of you.
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I figured out that Kat is VC’s baby mama. Come on Kat spill the beans, we all know you just gave birth to VC’s triplets.
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Lol what a tool. This is what it looks like when you piss off a disinfo pawn.
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Prison? really?? lol show’s what sort of lunatic is at the helm steering them all into the abyss.
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steal members? for what? to where?
when “he stole” members last time he supposedly up and left.
and besides. If all of this happened before this “new incident” . what is the beef now. And what is the situation with the “new incident” . When I was banned out of no where (the first time) it didnt even give a reason!
FYI: kat is now claiming that she never posted on this site. It has been exposed by her admission of personal conversations that we’ve had with her detailed on here that she did.
so , I’m thinking they’re coming over here. And like tweeter, get caught up with stuff they can not back up or get exposed as a disinfo bringer.
they are then told to “stay away” or in Kat’s case lie and say that it wasn’t them.
Do you see the sociopathic behavior in this?
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@femalepharoe, it truly is sociopathic behaviour– at least that’s one explanation as to how someone can just outright tell a lie like that when there is blatant evidence proving said lie. These type of people tend to consistently deny that they are lying and even after the event of an admission, they are unremorseful of being caught and easily continue to be deceptive.This “Kat” character seems to display these characteristics…and who knows how many of them are actually suffering from this mental disorder.
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OMG you guys are totally full of it, totally!!!! You talk all smart but actually believe that Vig is dumb enough to send a message like that? No way, no how. He doesn’t even write like that!!!
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Lmfao at her pretending no to be Nika now.
She verbally admitted she was RussianNika in tinychat over a mic..while she was drunk on top of that alot of people knew it was her before she admitted.
She joined right after the user CIA got banned.
Her voice was a match with the vocaroos (voice recordings) that she used to make as Nika.
If Shannon and all them are supporting her their doing it to cover up the fact that she was a ex-moderator and clear bias on her part.
Anything Katarzyna says is basically the equivalent of Vig making a statement– not to be trusted.
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Funny, I didn’t know VC sent from that email.
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Looks like he’s become fully unhinged…
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Look at “Terms of Services you dumb fuck”.
Obvious editing is obvious 😉
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Agreed. Plus, why is it forwarded?
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No way that is Vigilant. He never did that when Toby tried to steal all his members in the first place and he wouldn’t do it now risking you showing everyone. He’s not that stupid and doesnt talk that way. Its so obviously Toby doing it again since you put your email up here and are working with him. Thats illegal!!!
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How old are you? For real. I feel like the logic you project equates to that of a five year-old child.
“What is illegal”
“How is it obvious Toby is doing it again”
Everything you say runs on the same basis of when a toddler holds the statements their parents make as absolute truth.
i.e: “My dad told me my baby brother was delivered by a stork.”
On-topic Analogy: “My Dad says Santa Claus is real” is to “Everyone is Toby” as “Social cheerleaders” are to “brain-dead, illogical Mitch Joel worshipers”
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@Someone from VC
I think most of us have had an email from VC before or seen trustworthy ones, he types like a 5 year old with a broken hand. That’s if he can be bothered to type more than 1 or 2 words.
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You can see how he really types when he addresses you guys on the forums and in his articles. That email is a fake and you or your little derailing crew probably sent it to him. Know what? you guys all that are complaining that you got banned never even said waht you got banned for. Why dont you tell us what you said? Its because you got banned for the right reasons, for trolling and breaking the rules otherwise you wouldn’t just be bitching here all butthurt for nothing!!
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@Someone from VC
If you actually read the messages on this blog left by us, you would see we have stated multiple times that we were banned without reason! that is what this was about. Being banned and the reason being “Don’t question moderators in the forum” or nothing at all, is not an ample reason to ban. Even Tweeterfist agreed with all this, and seen that we had never had any warnings.
If you don’t know any of this then read the blog comments.
VC does not type E-mails like they were an article, and you saying as such shows you are talking complete rubbish.
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How can you prove that was a real mail? Have you the source transmission/smtp data log available for analysis? Or can you prove otherwise?
Note: I’m not a VC fanboy or anyones beatch for that matter, I just demand proof in this age of photoshop, holograms and artificial flavor.
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@ femalepharoe
you are smarter than that. you deeply analyze the logic or illogic is other people all the time and you actually telling me you believe that this is Vigilant? Its not and you know it. You guys should lay off of RN. She did nothing wrong to anyone and had to leave the forums because she was being stalked and Im not even going to say by who because its private for security reasons!
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Oh and Silent Observer and Io both join sentences together with a – and Toby was notorious for writing like that. Busted again.
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Oh no! Toby’s trademark was typing his messages on a keyboard! I knew something was odd about all of you! Are you serious? Making use of a punctuation mark means we are Toby…wow you are really grasping, lol.
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why are you and pluto always on at the same time? Busted again, and you know what IO, Pluto, Observer and Female Pharoe, none of you guys have ever even said what you were banned for? We know truthseer was banned for stalking Cheers and impersonating Shannon and other people and he was always a massive troll anyway but you guys are just saying you were banned for no reason and thats just not true. People that know Toby is real at the VC know how his twisted mind works and can see that these blogs and most of the comments from teh anonymous users are his.
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You are very paranoid! Also, if you bothered to go through the blog comments, you will see that we all stated the circumstances behind our banning. I even posted the message that got me banned (without warning), the first time, and I mentioned the thread that got me permanently banned (“WHO IS?”…as in who is Mitch Joel). YOU need to look at it, I’m not going to go over it all again for someone who will not even bother to actively seek things out for themselves.
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Hahaha.
They’re so crazy…..
I don’t know if I can take much more…
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Was just told by someone who knows the real Nyk that Silent Observer is not him, he’s lying.
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If you’re going to post here, stop posting lunatic drivel, do you check under your bed every night to see if there is a Toby under there? Also you should say Toby 5 times in-front of a mirror.. bloody Toby if you’re brave.
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@Pluto: 😉
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Lol you are not a credible source in the slightest. First of all you have not come forward with your name second of all “someone who knows the real Nyk”… huh you can’t even give a name. LOL
The only person I talked to when I left the boards and came back is Laya gtfo here. The only way anyone should accept anything you say is if LayaAmani posts on VC “saying SilentObserver isn’t Nyk” then even I will believe you.
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Believe it or not, I questioned vc’s motives (in a non insulting way) many times, I got deleted everytime. If I can find archived caches on waybackmachine or the like I’ll show you. Or rather I wouldshow you but you smell like a troll. Are you legit?
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Mods can read PM’s. Confirmed.
Ayaka, you remember the songs list you gave me. Well, I just got mailed that list from an unknown address and will reproduce it soon. This is borderline harassment now.
And ask Laya, I never stalked Cheers
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@ Some one from VC,
Thank you ever so much for the compliment.
Had you read the blog you would see that we stated there was NO reason for us being banned. We DO NOT KNOW why we were banned. And in my case I was banned after commenting on a sight that a moderator drew attention too. So I can only assumed that I was violating VCs terms of service while not actually on his sight.
It does not matter, because obviously you are more controlled distraction.
As IO said, VC does type like a bratty child who has not learned verb agreement, and proof reading in his personal emails. So much so that my reply to him when he emailed me was : ” I thought you’d be …sweeter”.
This post by “someonefromVC” is quite telling to the emotionally instability and trauma that is both instituted and nurtured at VC. They are all MK ultra victims, desperate for the direction of their handler.
For those not aware of the background. Toby is some fabricated character who staged an elaborate rebellion against the site. The “old” members, most of them not posting any comments or ideas of any value from what I can tell during my time, wear this time of rebellion like some sick badge of honor.
They will throw the word” toby” around and around but when someone asks “who is toby” they say “its a long story you don’t need to know” . They create this environment where there is a boogey man lurking at every corner and then they won’t give you any information regarding it.
So you see , they’ve created their own little form of (fabricated) elite status. This is evident in the current thread of “who is toby” where a mod came in and locked it after two vc distractors came in and admonished the OP for asking such a question. It’s really sad.
Furthermore, they have been traumatized by the “uprising” as to where they can not get the incident out of their minds!! That is ALL they talk about and only concerned with who was who and what was your “old screen name”, even in the face of confrontation. Obviously, they have forgotten that this site is bringing people under the delusion of truth seeking.
I do NOT give a hair on a rat’s as* WHO russian nikka, Kat , Nykballa. etc. IS/ was/ and may be!!!!
WHAT are you not getting about this???? I actually do NOT care who Vigilant is in his day to day life!
THE question is, if we had to make a list of “conspiracy theorist who can not be trusted” SHOULD VC be on the LIST??? You know,, conspiracy theorist; Icke, Cooper, Jones..etc???
And the fact that whenever anyone asks this question about him , the site in question is “leaked” as “toby” and all of these people ensue (unlike the case with the other conspiracy theorist in question) does NOT bode well for vigilant.
Stop trying to steer the direction into pointlessness, …*smh
what , oh what, will they come up with next?????
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Hi Female Pharoah. I’ll be the first post to this well written essay
Here we go, with my long research.
I’ve been on VC for some time. We had many fake ‘toby’ accounts. I decided to analyze these accounts and one of them gave a small glitter away
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3370&hilit=WildBill&sid=1cbc484d8d805f08b8c734bfa278ffb5
Wild Bill made this thread. He is, or was, called Toby by Hartwell. Now here’s where it gets interesting.
This essay was copy-pasted from HIS OWN account over at a forum site
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-31828.html?s=d04cbb01f3df40c96de7cd7b31170179
I decided to do some research. Rainydays has many posts and you can research them all yourselves. However, this leads to three conclusions
a) A sociopath obsessed with VC would never have time to make these posts without a reference to VC
b) That Rainy Days has to be Wild Bill since they both have the same views on the subject and very similar typing style
c) That there was something in Wild Bill’s posts that threatened VC
I have not found any post so far that would help me on the third conclusion, except one. His views on this topic are the exact anti-thesis of what Vigilant’s are. He proves. emphatically, that God exists and also that Gnosticism, or hidden knowledge granting salvation is a lie. This is a huge blow to VC and so he was banned as Toby
Now for what I found about Toby on the other site.
Anyone who peruses Rainy Days posts will have to agree they are incredibly well reasoned out though some of his views aren’t. He never seems to mention his obsession with the Vigilant Citizen and is in fact, quite coherent
So I’d like to conclude by saying that this bogeyman must be a lie, a fabrication, to give a scapegoat for VC.
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can someone gimme a list of the mods and there religions?? this is what i think they is vc is lukewarm christian tweet is true christian hexa laya and hart are all occult muslims?? amirite?
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Don’t be a bigot brah.
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Sorry Sarge, but you nom saying right?
I will try better next time for you brah!
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Laya’s an atheist. She left Islam long ago.
Hexa, a Muslim? LOLS, just see the spirituality section, he calls Allah a Non-light Deity and says other deities exist and we’re deities too.
Hartwell is another atheist
Tweet is a hypocritical Christian
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Aiight everybudy easy does it already. You’re all getting far to far and out of control with your conspirational nonsense or not?
It’s not hard to understand that the vigilant citizen is not a one man show so the person responding to your emails is probably his virtual assistant that he pays $1 an hour to over in Singapore or the Phillipines where making $8 a day is a sweet job?
Aiight, Ima spell it out for you
What the fu-ck is up? Chaukee is the place to be
Coming on the comments is Joby-Mutha-Fuck-in-T
Vig is on the beat. FP is on the drums
So listen up close while we rip sh-it up…..
Well I’m Toby Jones and I gots bit-ches galore
VC may has a lot of bitc-hes
But I gots much more
Wit my super duper “group” coming out to shoot
Joby-T, muthafu-kas cold knocking the boots
‘Cause I’m a VC thugster, I used to be a mugster
If you heard of the old forums, you’d think I own a drugstore
8 ball sipping, the bit-ches are flipping
Slow down, I hit a dipping, continue my trippin
Hitting my switches, collect from my bit-ches
The posters that I steal so I can add to my riches
You hear meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee? So the question is am I also a Tobias “Bit-chin” Jones or just someone else living off the man(s) legacy here to spread a message you all must see?
Ok guys, yall missed something very important so pays attentions here and I is going to show yall something.
FemalePharoe is one of the more intelligent voices in all the noise that has transpired here, I’d pay good attention to what she says because she’s a lot closer to the truth than the rest of you. Special contribution go to NYOC, Silent Observer, IO, Plato, TS, Gyro and the rest of Toby’s “crew”, rotfl.
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears; I come not to bury Vigilant, nor to praise him or Toby. The evil that men do lives after them;
The user here known as Monica “Lewinsky” Hill is actually a reference to Russian Nika (I won’t say how unless da bit-ch keeps running her mouth) but many of you already picked up on that.
You see Russian Nika also turned on VC from the old forum bust up as well and tried to create her own forum called http : // theoutercircle . net/
Like the other losers Henrik, Daciple and Tweeterfist she’s gone back grovelling too, but she was never a part of their cliche because they all talked smack about her behind her back, really mean stuff like she was a whore, a porno lover and fat.
She caused all other sorts of problems that is not important to this bit of revelation but Laya, Belligerent and Andy (gatecrasherbasher) were her main bit-ches at the outercircle and they would scheme ways they could get Tobias “B1tchin” Jones in trouble with VC and vice versa.
Eventually like all operations run by small time wanna-be’s (Nika, Daciple, Henrik, oh and Toby….*snicker*) All went wrong there and it’s a boring story really but Laya can hit yall up with the details as soon as her mouth is free. 🙂
Nika started telling everyone that Vig is a 33rd degree mason (bad move on her part) and that she didn’t trust him but when her forums died she had to return to VC and did so as CIA. CIA was found out and banned. Truth be told because I know the truth about this, the Vig hates Nika and only lets Kat stay now because she gobbles the nob so to say 😉
So would it surprise you one bit that now someone with “insider” information is posing as Russian Nika using the name of Monica “Lewinsky” Hill, a name that RN would never use here? Well it doesn’t surprise me one bit.
_________________________________________________
on 17/12/2011 at 00:10 | Reply Monica “Lewinsky” Hill
You pointed out earlier that all negative press makes the sale better than positive press. Not quite, but close. It goes like this, and we the “Press People” would know, dontchathink?
_________________________________________________
note: “we the press people” would know.
Now don’t you think it is funny that literally 1 hour after this message was posted here you can read the sentiments echoed at Joel’s own blog?
Coi inky din k?
http : // www . twistimage . com / blog / archives / we-the-media/
“we the media”
“Everything you say (and do) is being recorded and will be judged in the court of public opinion.”
Literally one hour after we were graced with the “Lewinsky” presence, that blog post hits the air waves.
Here are some hard questions
Is he toying with us?
Did he post as “Lewinsky” then replicate the same message on his site?
How do I know this happened?
a) Am I really observant and do my due dilligence? (I pick this one) 🙂
b) Do I have a lot of employees?
c) Am I Vigilant having a laugh because I’m actually benefiting from all of
this negative press as “Lewinsky” taunted us with?
d) Am I doing damage control?
e) Am I the big bad Tobias “Bit-chin” Jones, the evil genius, the Satan of the
VC?
Or like all of you does this all just make sense?
I’ll leave that up to the court of public opinion 🙂
– Joby-Mutha-Fuc-kin-T in da house
ooops I use a lot of —– in my message! GASP!!!! Dead ringer giveaway huh Kat? 😉 LOL
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Nice rhyme scheme though. When is the mixtape dropping.??
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You needa ask Dre bout that 🙂
I just want to express my appreciation for the clarity in your comments as well.
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This one is quite entertaining and though provoking 🙂
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If this Toby is a real person I congratulate him for keeping the dishonest crew at VC occupied like that. It must be hard to be confronted with cointelpro and disinfo tactics in a more efficient way that they can do themselves… Go, Toby, keep the shills busy 🙂
At least, it looks like they freak out whenever they are questioned and see a Toby-conspiracy behind it all, like they would have to convince themselves that there is ONLY ONE PERSON behind any questioning of VC’s background and fashist post moderations. Wake up people, there are already dozens of people or more who realized the fakeness of VC as a trutstable Illuminati uncoverer.
If these guys could focus on the message, not the messanger, they would have to acklowledge to themselves who dishonest they are to themselves.
I really hope for more people to become more host to themselves, the world would be thankful…
Peace, Chaukee
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Yes my dear.
“Toby” is truly the best evil genius of his time.
Well said.
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Grüezi mitenand,
A lot of interesting discussions going on here but please remember two wrongs don’t make a right. Consonance is key.
Toby or not toby, that’s the question (sic; pun intended) 😉
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Mircat, what are you doing here? :O
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Who is Mircat Shan? Never mind I think that I know who you have in mind. I’m here cause I’m fed up with all the confusion and lies on every side. People pretending to walk in somebody else’s shoes while they wouldn’t last one step. Enough is enough.
I also like this soap opera.
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Hmm, I’ve noticed another oddity concerning the shenanigans on VC. In response to Femmes Rouge’s post above, in which she quotes Katarzyna’s comments that were made on the thread discussing pornography, “Someone from VC” replies with:
“OMG you guys just don’t give up, you just create new names to continue talking bs about anyone on VC who doesn’t believe he’s a disinfo agent, and just leave RN alone she’s been through enough!”
So is this a slip or an admission that the person called “Katarzyna” is indeed “Russian Nika?” If this is the case, and if it is true that Katarzyna aka Russian Nika has a close relationship with VC and communicates with him frequently via email, then what explains this…
The following is an email exchange between myself and VC after I was permanently banned:
http://postimage.org/image/o7ob3d2e3/
Why would he accuse me of being Russian Nika? Does this actually mean that VC is unaware that Katarzyna,his good friend and defender, is actually his enemy Russian Nika” or does it mean some other strange scenario is going on here…
Stay tuned for some more convoluted nonsense drama from shady VC and his crew!
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It is bizarre for sure. I find it funny that lay was rumored to be a “secret moderater”
But what is the significance of Russian nikkA in this whole thing from your perspective?
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*Kay was rumored.
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I’m not sure of the significance of her in this whole thing or whether or not there even is any, I just thought it was quite an odd response from VC given what’s been said about this Russian NIka/Kat character. It also appears that the VC who writes the articles is not the same VC who answers emails nor are they the same VC invovled on the forums, but I suppose we all suspected this from the start.
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I’m not to sure if this comment has shown up before, so please forgive me for the double post.
Typical VC board mentality.
Let’s start with Adam C. Madison.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7203&start=10
Adam C. Madison:
“Wish we’d stop this bullshit “is he part of the elite” stuff. In the sense that he’s succeeded in a highly competitive field, making him more accomplished than 99% of humans who have ever lived? Yes. In the retarded conspiracy way you intend? No.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6884&start=20
Adam C. Madison:
“Obviously the most effective designs are going to be repeated. It doesn’t mean there’s a freaking conspiracy about evetrything.”
RIRIsG4L:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7859
When asked about symbolism in a movie, RIRIsG4L responds:
“Eh…its just a movie.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7628&start=10
RIRIsG4L:
“I don’t see the big deal. Its fantasy. Its entertainment. Have some fun and stop worrying about it so much.”
Although I am “pagan”, I have to admit that calling illuminati programming/brainwashing/conditioning “harmless entertainment” just shows how ignorant a person could truly be.
Making a joke out of a serious subject:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7825
RIRIsG4L:
“oh Oh OH! AND SUN WORSHIP!”
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What’s up with this “your comment is awaiting moderation” shit?
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ABFT!! Hi Sarge, or wait am I Sarge?
Sargie Baby show us some muscles.
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Dissociative Identity Disorder, kiddo?
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CIA = RN = Kat.
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have been blocked for your safety. Show content
So, … Let’s just recap to see if …I got this all down. .. We have honestly detailed our personal accounts/observations of VC shadiness and theories.
The opposition has come in:
1.promising to meet us to discuss but, havenot.
2. Calling us losers and crazy while going on into spills about the trials and tribulation of single motherhood. Albeit, in a very moving account.
3.Admitting that they do not know why some of us were banned, insisting that we create another account and would not be banned, but that was a lie.
4.I am apparently a b*tch, and also Toby.
5.We have been working with “toby” from day one, and because we at
some point in time have had similar thoughts and posts on the ‘vc site” it confirms that we were “sent in” by “toby”.
6. Monica Lewinksy has made an appearance.
7. Kat has blatantly and publically lied about posting on here to her cronies at VC, but her posts and her elaborating on personal conversations that we’ve had with her proves that she did. And this is VC’s right hand woman.
8. They are searching for the real “nykballa” , what they will do with him if they find him is anyone’sguess (forget that the real nykballa , has told you it was him..)
9….and…::looks over posts:: Toby Jones’ cousin came in , choosing to provide some interesting information , but it was in the format of a riddled , hip-hop free style.
10.we are all “Toby’ . Including this site.
…… -__-
Does that about cover it?
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Lol, excellent breakdown/recap.
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Excellent recap. By the way, Id mention the weird way they all support him
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She did already. She said they were MKultra’d though I don’t think in the traditional sense we think of MKUltra, it’s just social conditioning. He (they; VC) posing as one are/is the pimp of their/his home (the vc boards) and the mind numbed supporters are just wanting of his approval. MKultra is extreme, but this sort of obedience is common place. They are his bitches.
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Well she did say they were all MKUltra’d, but probably not in the traditional sense probably just in the sense that they see him as an authority and want to please him, like social acceptance. That’s one of the most targeted way to make people compliant, nom saying?
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woa, there’s two of me. One of me is false. False I say!
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Continuing with the rest:
A simple analysis of a New Egg ad turns into a GIF parade:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7876&start=0
You know just how much “substance” is in their minds, if these people are treating Kim Kardashian like she is some type of high priestess or goddess:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7466
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7957
The Kardashians vs Teen Mom:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8155
The main subject of the thread is:
“Whose side are you on? Kourtney, Farrah, or no one? Is it wrong for Kourtney to have a second child without being married?
What’s worse, being a young mother or having children out of wedlock?”
Katarzyna admits:
“It can’t always be depressing conspiracies! Or else we’ll all be sad pandas. Funny enough, I make really serious threads and people don’t pay attention like they do to these. Hmmm…”
The sex obsession continues:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8069&start=10
“The T-Mobile Girl and a crap load of little people? You gotta admit, that would be a pretty funny porno.”
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LMAO How hilarious that I stumbled upon this blog! Why you might ask? Because what was mentioned is VERY true. I too, got very suspicious of VC when I as well, noticed he was pushing one solid agenda: mind control and the occult.
I read somewhere else, not on his site obviously, that sometimes the government deploys double agents, people who pretend to be on our side only to really be working for the party they claim they are against/ out to expose in order to create disinformation. Something VC covers, but doesn’t acknowledge the double agent part fully. Why?
The lack of versatility or opened-mindedness in his views/ articles rang an alarm in my head. His readers/ followers are no better than the “sheeple” they claim they are soooo much more awake than. So, I tried to ask him about it; comment blocked.
I straight out called bs and told his readers he kept deleting my comments on mention of the word “double-agent.” Comment blocked. Again I tried, comment blocked.
Mind you these comments (others of people who didn’t agree with his views as well) were being deleted at a rapid pace days after an article release or on that same day. WHO HAS THE TIME TO SIT THERE AND DO THAT?
I sure as hell couldn’t. Which brings the question of “does he run this site himself, or is there more than one person running this site?” And if it just himself and is his job in a sense, doesn’t that mean he’s making BANK off of this? (You cant sustain yourself, internet, a comment board, multiple sites,etc off of air buddy!) Doesn’t that mean he’s pushing something that a company pays him for?
BTW I find his fascination with Gaga very disturbing considering if you truly wanted to stop her or artists like her, agendas, you mention them once in a detailed article. That would give people the tools to avoid media/ artists that pushed those agendas. Instead he focuses on them so devoutly, so constantly I wonder if he too is just following the now, the trendy. And by doing so, indirectly or directly is building propaganda for Gaga and anything with those agendas. Think about it, the more you mention something, the more of a fascination is built and the more people need to fixate on it.
I left one final last comment on his post for “Marry The Night” and he can’t dare say it was off topic. I mentioned the video analysis itself, another users comment (which was blocked, shocking) and yet it was still blocked.
Judge me if you’d like, but at least I’m honest:
“I swore I’d never comment again after VC kept deleting my comments in regards to him perhaps being some kind of double agent (which he hardly ever covers…weird no?) but I didn’t swear off of coming to this site.
Quite frankly I find his analysis/take on media/culture fascinating, but this article is it for me! Not that he, or anyone of his followers will care, but I won’t be coming back because besides censoring a lot of our comments (such as your own) he now is propagating one solid theme/ way of thinking to the masses, just like the people he seeks to “enlighten” you about.
Yet on this very site he tells you to think for yourself, to basically investigate things and not just solely rely on his opinion, but if you do so, he singles you out or censors you— contradictory much?
I get that VC is trying to stick to the theme of his site, the occult and its symbolism, but to just label something as that and claim it’s nothing else is BS!
Did anyone ever care to think perhaps, as Nikki mentioned, Gaga was rapped (regardless of whether it was by the industry or not) or that perhaps she associates the mental institution with the level of mental instability she experienced after being dropped that same day? Maybe that’s one of the places she went to in her own mind.? Or perhaps she remade herself willing in order to succeed? Not simply because the industry enforced it on her. (Hell if everyone one person I knew had the occult as a backing reason as to why they changed, they’d all be in the Illuminati! ) Or that the ballet scenes were symbolic of how impossible it was for her to be a dancer/entertainer (notice the stilts she has on!) and that after she reinvented herself she worked her ass off to become the best she knew she could be? ( In other words, giving up on a fairytale fantasy of being a graceful dancer, to just becoming one with hard work) Or what about the final scene, in wish she is, in my opinion, a phoenix rising out of her own ashes? (demise/ failures)These are just simple differences, the bounds in which to interpret this artistic video (because it is art whether you’d like to admit or not) or videos of the like, are endless.
I stopped believing in VC all together after I stumbled onto sites such as this one: http://gagajournal.blogspot.com/2011/03/agents-of-pop-of-what-is-past-or.html
In which it expanded on videos meanings more than what was given at face value, or our perceived interpretations, or even VC’s focus on just the occult.
I began to realize life is much more complex than just “good” or “bad,” “god” or the “devil,” “naturalism” from “occultism,” “us” from the “elite,” and that perhaps none of us know it all fully.
If you start to believe everything VC tells you, you’re no better than the “sheeple” you people bash all the time. Brainwashing goes both ways, always remember that!
As to you VC, I thank you. If what you say is true, after much thought and plight suffered, I think I know what to do next with my life. If you can’t beat them (which we can’t… if “they” even exist) then join them. And now I sort of know how to go about it.
At the end of the end of the day, it’s not about what people reveal to/ enlightens you. It’s not about one point of view or censorship if you don’t stick to that view. Nor is it about if the information people such as VC presents to you, librates you or entraps you; it’s about what you do with the aforementioned.
Call me crazy, call me stupid, call me whatever the hell you want, but I’ve taken all that I can from this site, and it’s time I expanded my points of views/ ways of thinking. If you’re so inclined to be appalled by this, then you all are hypocrites for not following the truer words that VC has offered; to be vigilant and to think for yourself.
Good luck to you all! I’m off this site for good. “
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This will prob be my last post , considering how the ..situation unfolds.
I just want to alert you all to a very recent bizarre phenomenon in my actual life.
Now, I hope you can see by now, that femalepharoe is not a loon. Nor is she a punk.
I will have the viewing public recall that some of the characteristics of “toby” included “stalking” , email hacking, and somehow obtaining private pictures. This is the stuff that you hear tell about, the legends, that are thrown around all over the site.
I have never met, plan to meet, nor do I believe Toby to exist. I have given my thoughts on that prior.
Some very…bizarre things have started to occur. Earlier this week, someone, (who has posted here) sent me an email. Upon trying to open that email, my email host told me something to the effect of:
“the certificate does not match”
the certificate seemed to be expired. so I went ahead and read the email.
Later that day, while trying to play a game on my phone, the “driving gps” activated itself over and over. I indeed, had to turn off the navigation all together.
Please keep in mind that FemalePharoe has relocated to a major city and has never used, opened, or needed the gps “driving application”
Of course, I was a little paranoid, but you try not to get too caught up
The next day, while looking for a rug on craigslist. The site opened to “indonesia” . Of course I didn’t notice this until the major cities were not what I was looking for. I do not live in india. Nor would I be surfing to buy anything in india…odd?
2 days later, while coming home. I attempted to unlock my door. As I put the key in the door swung open. Some how, the bolt had been locked from THE INSIDE.
Now again, bare in mind that people do not typically leave their doors open in crime infested cities. Nor do they lock their bolt from the inside and closed the door. After I charged my phone and turned it on. I saw a message from a neighbor telling me my door was open and if i wanted him to close it.
…………yeah. it was a little unsettling.
the night after, I received 3 phone calls from “private” numbers. As I only picked up the first one; the male caller started to ask me bizarre and obscene questions.
Earlier today, while finished some christmas shopping, someone again called me from a number – though not private- one I had never seen. I called back, it went straight to the default voicemail.
Top that all off with an email from linkdn telling me someone had “viewed” my age old profile….
Something is amiss. I’m not going to make any accusations. But if you can not see by now that too much chaos and treachery ensues with this than I don’t know what to tell you.
As for me: I would suggest these random harassment and coincidences cease.
I am a horse of a different color you see.
A bid you all farewell on this particular topic , unless something else occurs. Then I may have to take this in a ..different direction.
Good luck in the truth search, I’m sure we all will find what we are looking for.
FP
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FP don’t let it bother you. I have a theory similar to yours. Toby Jones doesn’t exist. Toby is part of the internal group at the Vigilant Citizen that collects information maybe not on you personally but on how people are thinking. I think the Jones group is synonymous with Vigilants group and they are one in the same.
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Yeah there’s a good chance they are one and the same. And fp that’s some weird shiz.
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Off topic: Lakers vs Clips is a good game 😀
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Here is the email I got
It’s cut off in the middle. This was a PM Ayaka sent me long ago
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It says email but Ayaka PM’ed it to me, you can confirm that with her
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That first picture is actually exactly how I envisioned him, sneaky, devious yet professional. Then in the second one he’s pretending to be a priest, just like he would pretend to be a Christian in his first incarnation at the vigilant citizen website. Typical wolf in sheeps clothing stuff right there!
Then in his bio, it shows how diverse this man really is making him totally capable of playing all the roles attributed to him here and on the vigilant citizen and you guys thought he was just mythical. Foiled again!!
pictures:
http://tinyurl.com/cgm8chh
http://tinyurl.com/c2tasl2
Bio:
http://tinyurl.com/nr24nj
Truthseer, well I guess that about settles it. They can read pm’s afterall.
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FUGLY!
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Daciple: “Seems to me that the objective of these people are the same objective they had last time, which is to cause a massive division in the posters on here”
Dac I’ve always respected you but if you think this you haven’t really read anything we have said or have a skewed sense of what’s going on. We’re criticizing the ban-happy tactics that VC has constructed. Anyone that questions his motives is immediately banned and has their threads deleted or locked. I mean just quickly scanning through his articles you find what’s on the surface of the conspiracy movement “Toxic Levels Of Arsenic Found In Popular Juice Brands” or “Kyary Pamyu Pamyu Still Bringing Illuminati Symbolism To Kids” lmfao seriously who gives a fuck. All that aside the mass bannings of quality posters is what left me a little disgruntled. It is what it is.. i’ve moved on there are better forums out there. I liked what VC used to be on the old boards now it is really lame.
Daciple: “I have a feeling the reason why they wont come here and say ish is cuz they cant impersonate others such as myself”
Dac again your wrong. The reason we won’t come is because we get banned on sight and no one here wants to impersonate you or Loki. I don’t know who is feeding you this information or if you just think we’re just “Toby” but it isn’t like that. You probably are unaware of what’s going on because of the clear bias on those boards. But then again to each their own.
And those of you who are sending threats to each other grow the fuck up.
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^ this ^
nuff said
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^ this ^
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Silent Observer, yet another user who can balance the intuition with reason.
Congratulations on seeing Daciple’s true colors
“Dac I’ve always respected you but if you think this you haven’t really read anything we have said or have a skewed sense of what’s going on. We’re criticizing the ban-happy tactics that VC has constructed. Anyone that questions his motives is immediately banned and has their threads deleted or locked. I mean just quickly scanning through his articles you find what’s on the surface of the conspiracy movement “Toxic Levels Of Arsenic Found In Popular Juice Brands” or “Kyary Pamyu Pamyu Still Bringing Illuminati Symbolism To Kids” lmfao seriously who gives a fuck. All that aside the mass bannings of quality posters is what left me a little disgruntled. It is what it is.. i’ve moved on there are better forums out there.”
You’re starting to see the real Daciple. The one who cares more about getting his needs met than others. You see he doesn’t care whether it’s at VC’s forum, or Illomennation, or the truth files or even on his own blogs, he just wants to preach, but do you really know what drives that behavior? Do you really understand it?
You are all under the impression that Daciple cares about your salvation? No, you’re wrong. He cares only about showing how educated he is on the only thing he seems to be educated on and that is his own ideas of what is being communicated in Scriptures. You see writing walls of text and cutting and pasting out of context scriptures while telling you what to think is the only thing that he’s ever excelled at and the only way he finds value in his life.
When I say his own ideas, yes they are ideas adopted from branches of mainstream Christianity and he’s adopted them in his mind as absolute truth, so from that perspective he believes he’s actually doing good and helping people.
In meme like replication he’s all about spreading the ideas that have captured his mind and in doing so he has quenched the innate desire we all have on doing what is important, and that is contributing to society.
He’s not totally aware of that and that doesn’t matter much either because the point of this is that he is doing it for selfish reasons. He’s doing it to feel important to him, and only him.
Here’s what you need to know.
Daciple doesn’t trust Vigilant Citizen.
He was just as responsible for the old forum meltdown as anyone else he blames. Toby is a convenient excuse but he was just one person who provided some other place for these ravaging Christians to express themselves in.
All of the damage was done mostly by TweeterFink and Daciple, and those running the Vigilant Citizen operation are aware of that.The thing that the VC operators enjoy most is how Twit and Dac had to go grovelling back because they got the boot in the other place. This really tickled their egos. The fact that these two are dedicated “employees” that don’t cost any money, but aid the dialectic that is constantly going on in the VC which makes people argue senselessly and creates more hits and ad rotations and $$$, is gravy.
Remember, one of the reasons people are being told this is that there were internal changes the the agreements between the two parties in this study. One wants to get paid more than what was agreed and legalities are involved. “They” believe “we” are the ones who made this blog and the comments in the beginning. This is false, but that is not anyone’s concern here. You are all after the truth, so here’s more of it.
The only time these “Christians” were happy was when they were fighting with opposition. Until opposition came they needed to stir the pot and that was something TweeterFink was especially good at. This is why he would constantly go back to VC and collude with RussianNika on “whisperings” she was being given by the “other side”, bringing these silly rumors back for the group that had left.
Many of the group members were genuine and wanted a place to talk scripture or “truth” but a few were full of themselves thinking they were more important than others. Without a true enemy or opposition presence to fight with they started fighting with each other. Hence why they are ravaging. When someone of another “faith’ came around they ganged up on them and caused them to leave. Like everywhere else she goes Russian Nika had to try and make most things about her and had the funniest melt down you could ask for. Pure entertainment value.
Most of the bickering was really stupid and time wasting though, and the lead researchers got tired with the bickering and decided to shut that part of the operation down, so the dead weight had to be let go.
Henrik first because he was the biggest pain in the arse. Then Daciple because through his manic depression he became a liability. A few others followed and TweeterFink was just convinced to leave in the end. Others that weren’t really being observed stayed for as long as they wanted.
That’s what I have been told. Yes, what I have been told.
I’m only here to spread that message. Please don’t crucify the messenger, that’s never really helped anyone because then people martyr them and create new religions and stuff and Kenny Rogers is just not about any of that shit.
Please don’t call me Toby either because now that I know what he looks like, it would be a devastating insult for me and I might never come back here again out of sheer humiliation.
Oh and Daciple, you didn’t even graduate from high school. Don’t pretend to know anything about Science or research methodology.
For example, and I know this will go over your head, but when designing a a study for the meta-analyses of behaviour change, a team of researchers will be by the very nature of the study-design intimately involved with adjusting variables. They must consider the constantly changing nature of such variables.
No TweeterFink we are not at any liberty to divulge what the variables were, no matter how much you swear to Yahweh, kiddo. The rest of “yall” can just pretend that this is one man who has too much time on his hand making all of this up. None of that matters to us.
Now, this is especially true with studies designed to understand the effect of social media on human behavior and how variables can be manipulated to influence said behavior. Essentially you are one of our guinea-pigs Daciple. Your behavior is very predictable because you have few options in your mind. Scenario’s can be presented to you and you will mostly always follow through as expected.
Lastly, studies on psychology are not quantitative, like those of the physical sciences. So you are wrong again in your understanding of “science”, buddy. Studies in Psychology nearly exclusively of the qualitative variety.
You need to do a basic google (your God) search to discover what those terms mean, homie 😉
Oh and no, no one wanted to silence you and the 6 people who actually read what you write. Why not? How else could we observe your behaviors?
Daciple, I’m not at liberty to explain to you all that we learned, but I can tell you this with the accuracy of a surgical incision, you are totally consumed by the achetype that has control of your mind.
Oh and yes you and Twitterfitter are part of the dialectic taking place at the VC, but you guys just aren’t fully consciously aware of it yet. You both are antithesis as explained above. It’s true. You are needed there more than you actually know. Without you guys, no synthesis could happen.
Like it or not, that’s the truth, homie 😀
Keep “fighting the good fight, dude!”
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Looks like something someone said above about Loki / Grey Sanity and pictures of his nether lands hitting the internet has caused him to retire from the vigilant citizen website?
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8787
I guess that must make that story true, the one about him stalking Russian Nika with pictures of his peanuts and then threatening to show her nude pictures if she showed his around?
The thing is, apparently she did show his around so I guess he’s probably going to lay low and then start showing hers around, though I heard a rumor that he already did. Maybe he’s being forced to retire by Russian Nika under duress?
Here’s the thing I find interesting. Why do Vigilant and his shills like Loki like to throw the threat of legal repercussions around? How silly is that? I think on the http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/ someone named “Jims” showed up and threatened Yoy with some sort of legal bs too?
Who else but Vigilant Citizen, their owners and shills would drop the threat of legal action so stupidly like that, as if to try and scare people off from giving their opinions online? Real legal stuff doesn’t work like that.
You can see Loki making a round a bout reference to it in his “farewell” thread
“If the claims are fraudulent enough or affect Vigilant and his site enough then he will handle it how he sees fit (likely legally if it came to it).”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8787
— likely legally if it came to it — ?!?!?!
hahaha fucking hahahaha
and Vigilant made some reference to defamation of the real reporter in his “I’m a disinfo agent” thread IIRC, which made me burst out laughing in tears actually. How is that possible? You’re write with a pen name dude.
Anywhooooo, I guess this means the Loki / Grey Sanity persona is going to be put in the vault and a new one will come to the fore soon enough.
I think this quote by Daciple is funny too:
“Nah Chain is in Ohio hes been visiting his family and friends, he doesnt have enuff time to get into all that BS,and when I did tell him about these things he just brushed them off as nonsense.”
Are you saying he doesn’t have enough time to “get into all that BS” but he had enough time to make over 100 different sock puppets to troll the Vigilant Citizen website?
You know what I think? I think the rumors that you and Chainmaker are the same person aren’t so far fetched.
You come in with walls of text that are easily dismissed with logic by people who know what they’re talking about, then get angry and depressed that you can’t create the flock you so desperately want and come back with the Chain persona to flame people, condemn them to hell and tell everyone that you’re equivalent to Jesus doing so by repeating some obscure Biblical passage about judgment.
It’s been said that Chain is his alter ego here and on the boards themselves. Seems to ring truer and truer.
I love your guys story too. How you met in jail and how you realized the error of your ways from your drug dealing ways and reading the Bible delivered you from bondage. Then how you pursued your “friend” Chain and helped him turn from his evil occultic ways and the thieving that got him locked up behind bars.
It’s cute and all.
Honestly though, don’t you guys think that it’s Christians like this that give the message Jesus tried to spread such a false and poor image?
Maybe that’s what you’re after? I don’t know, but it’s possible.
Then take a look at the second part of that sentence. Does it not sound like Daciple having a talk with himself “and when I did tell him about these things he just brushed them off as nonsense.”
What is nonsense exactly? That Chain is being talked about? That he makes 100’s of sock puppets, has public meltdowns and calls anyone who doesn’t think he’s a perfect copy of Jesus a Satanist? That’s not nonsense?
Notice how Daciple is trying hard to downplay it all as unimportant and not significant, but he felt the need to run to his “friend” Chainmaker to let him know about all the “unimportant” drama? Howler for real! Who does Daciple think he’s kidding? What script is running in his head concurrently? The “I don’t care, to each their own and it’s not really important, but I have to run and tell everyone at the VC that I’m possibly being impersonated and keep my alter ego Chainmaker up to speed on the happenings on some obscure blog” one?
HA HA fucking HAHA
From a birds eye perspective I think that anyone who posts walls of text, essays and reproduces large portions of the bible on that website while telling others they are going to hell, and the little kiddies who defend the honor of Vig or their favorite pop-star all have one thing in common and that is that they are all wasting their time and life and that is what forums like that are all about; to suck up your life energy doing NOTHING PRODUCTIVE.
Oh hey, did you guys read how Henrik was apparently really proud that after having left the new forum he and Tweeterfist helped “Toby” to produce how it died because of this? Did it sound to you as if he was making it out that he was the important player in that? Maybe I’m reading into things because according to “scripture” after he left that forum he created another one which I think has died too. What’s most interesting about all of this is this picture below, check it out
”
About Me
I am leader of a very small animation team with loads of talent, resolve and experience, but sadly little money 😉 – and lofty goals to make a series which will appeal to young adults. So we need your help! :)”
LOLOLOL
Henrik instead of bragging about being a leader in a stupid message board that you say and are proud to announce was doomed to failure, why don’t you and your one-man-team focus on your business since you’re broke? I know living off the few crumbs that Vigilant used to feed you seemed promising at the time, and the promise of future work probably keeps you coming back for more crumbs but if you’re really as talented as you pretend to be, do something about it other than expressing your “Christian” self through “Satanic” music. Clear your mind.
Daciple get a life man. A real one. Oh and a job, outside of writing blog posts.
Henrik get a business man. A real one.
Chainmaker get a name man. A real one.
Toby get a better move script man. A real one.
Mods at the VC get jobs kids. Real Ones.
Loki get a girlfriend man. A real one.
RussianNika get a boyfriend girl. One that won’t dump you.
Oh and Nika this screenshot was too tempting to let slip.
Too interesting that it was your 666 post and your title is Beast. Haha. Maybe it’s Gods way of telling people you’re the whore of Babylon? No offense, but if the shoe fits, right?
“The Whore of Babylon or “Babylon the great” is a Christian allegorical figure of evil mentioned in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. Her full title is given as “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes and Abominations of the Earth.”
Did I miss anyone important? If I did, I’m sorry. Oh yeah, Vigilant Citizens themselves. Keep up the good work (I think?), I mean yeah you can’t keep everyone happy and of course once in a while you’re going to come across looking like a hypocrite by banning people who have real questions and are real seekers even though you pretend to encourage that amongst your readers while actually discouraging it on your forums and in your blog comments, but I think the thing that bugs me the most is that with all the money you’re making through that site you still haven’t got a real competent person to answer your emails. Please get one!
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Looks like something someone said above about Loki / Grey Sanity and pictures of his nether lands hitting the internet has caused him to retire from the vigilant citizen website? There can be no mistaking this, obviously Loki is leaving because he knows pictures are circulating and might show up here if he keeps lying about, well everything? That’s my guess.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8787
This must certainly make that story true, the one about him stalking Russian Nika with pictures of his peanuts and then threatening to show her nude pictures if she showed his around?
The thing is, apparently she did show his around so I guess he’s probably going to lay low and then start showing hers around, though I heard a rumor that he already did. Maybe he’s being forced to retire by Russian Nika under duress?
Here’s the thing I find interesting. Why do Vigilant and his shills like Loki like to throw the threat of legal repercussions around? How silly is that? I think on the http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/ someone named “Jims” showed up and threatened Yoy with some sort of legal bs too?
Who else but Vigilant Citizen, their owners and shills would drop the threat of legal action so stupidly like that, as if to try and scare people off from giving their opinions online? Real legal stuff doesn’t work like that.
You can see Loki making a round a bout reference to it in his “farewell” thread
“If the claims are fraudulent enough or affect Vigilant and his site enough then he will handle it how he sees fit (likely legally if it came to it).”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8787
— likely legally if it came to it — ?!?!?!
hahaha fucking hahahaha
and Vigilant made some reference to defamation of the real reporter in his “I’m a disinfo agent” thread IIRC, which made me burst out laughing in tears actually. How is that possible? You’re write with a pen name dude.
Anywhooooo, I guess this means the Loki / Grey Sanity persona is going to be put in the vault and a new one will come to the fore soon enough.
I think this quote by Daciple is funny too:
“Nah Chain is in Ohio hes been visiting his family and friends, he doesnt have enuff time to get into all that BS,and when I did tell him about these things he just brushed them off as nonsense.”
Are you saying he doesn’t have enough time to “get into all that BS” but he had enough time to make over 100 different sock puppets to troll the Vigilant Citizen website?
You know what I think? I think the rumors that you and Chainmaker are the same person aren’t so far fetched.
You come in with walls of text that are easily dismissed with logic by people who know what they’re talking about, then get angry and depressed that you can’t create the flock you so desperately want and come back with the Chain persona to flame people, condemn them to hell and tell everyone that you’re equivalent to Jesus doing so by repeating some obscure Biblical passage about judgment.
It’s been said that Chain is his alter ego here and on the boards themselves. Seems to ring truer and truer.
I love your guys story too. How you met in jail and how you realized the error of your ways from your drug dealing ways and reading the Bible delivered you from bondage. Then how you pursued your “friend” Chain and helped him turn from his evil occultic ways and the thieving that got him locked up behind bars.
It’s cute and all.
Honestly though, don’t you guys think that it’s Christians like this that give the message Jesus tried to spread such a false and poor image?
Maybe that’s what you’re after? I don’t know, but it’s possible.
Then take a look at the second part of that sentence. Does it not sound like Daciple having a talk with himself “and when I did tell him about these things he just brushed them off as nonsense.”
What is nonsense exactly? That Chain is being talked about? That he makes 100’s of sock puppets, has public meltdowns and calls anyone who doesn’t think he’s a perfect copy of Jesus a Satanist? That’s not nonsense?
Notice how Daciple is trying hard to downplay it all as unimportant and not significant, but he felt the need to run to his “friend” Chainmaker to let him know about all the “unimportant” drama? Howler for real! Who does Daciple think he’s kidding? What script is running in his head concurrently? The “I don’t care, to each their own and it’s not really important, but I have to run and tell everyone at the VC that I’m possibly being impersonated and keep my alter ego Chainmaker up to speed on the happenings on some obscure blog” one?
HA HA fucking HAHA
From a birds eye perspective I think that anyone who posts walls of text, essays and reproduces large portions of the bible on that website while telling others they are going to hell, and the little kiddies who defend the honor of Vig or their favorite pop-star all have one thing in common and that is that they are all wasting their time and life and that is what forums like that are all about; to suck up your life energy doing NOTHING PRODUCTIVE.
Oh hey, did you guys read how Henrik was apparently really proud that after having left the new forum he and Tweeterfist helped “Toby” to produce how it died because of this? Did it sound to you as if he was making it out that he was the important player in that? Maybe I’m reading into things because according to “scripture” after he left that forum he created another one which I think has died too. What’s most interesting about all of this is this picture below, check it out
”
About Me
I am leader of a very small animation team with loads of talent, resolve and experience, but sadly little money 😉 – and lofty goals to make a series which will appeal to young adults. So we need your help! :)”
LOLOLOL
You are a one man team. You know it and everyone else does too.
Henrik instead of bragging about being a leader on a stupid message board that you say and are proud to announce was doomed to failure, why don’t you and your one-man-team focus on your business since you’re broke?
I can understand that being pissed and broke gives you time to engage in this stuff and previously living off the few crumbs that Vigilant used to feed you seemed promising at the time, as did the promise of future work keeps you coming back for more crumbs but if you’re really as talented as you pretend to be, do something about it other than expressing your “Christian” self through “Satanic” music. Clear your mind.
Daciple get a life man. A real one. Oh and a job, outside of cutting and pasting the Bible onto forums. You think you’ve converted people, but if you were really truly the man of God you cry out to be, get out in the real world and reach people there.
Henrik get a business man. A real one.
Chainmaker get a name man. A real one. That is if you really exist and if you’re really just a fragment of Daciple’s mind then get some good therapy.
Toby get a better move script man. A real one. That is if you really exist and if you’re really just an experiment then get a better name at least!
Mods at the VC get jobs kids. Real Ones.
Loki get a girlfriend man. A real one. Stop sending pictures of your penis around online you twit! That is if you’re really real and not just part of the experiment yourself.
RussianNika get a boyfriend girl. One that won’t dump you. That is if you’re really real and not just part of the experiment yourself.
Oh and Nika this screenshot was too tempting to let slip.
Too interesting that it was your 666 post and your title is Beast. Haha. Maybe it’s Gods way of telling people you’re the whore of Babylon? No offense, but if the shoe fits, right?
“The Whore of Babylon or “Babylon the great” is a Christian allegorical figure of evil mentioned in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. Her full title is given as “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes and Abominations of the Earth.”
Did I miss anyone important? If I did, I’m sorry. Oh yeah, Vigilant Citizens themselves. Keep up the good work (I think?), I mean yeah you can’t keep everyone happy and of course once in a while you’re going to come across looking like a hypocrite by banning people who have real questions and are real seekers even though you pretend to encourage that amongst your readers while actually discouraging it on your forums and in your blog comments, but I think the thing that bugs me the most is that with all the money you’re making through that site you still haven’t got a real competent person to answer your emails. Please get one!
What boards did people go to anyway? I think it’s safe to say that the VC ones are dull and boring, and for the few weeks that I was a member it only seemed like the same users were posting and responding. No real fruitful conversations really took place in my books. Time to move on for sure.
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Right now the same old forums like David Icke and ATS. Though maybe we should create a new one but I have no inkling who’d have the time
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Maybe we should ask Henrik, Tweeterfist and “Toby” to help us *deranged laughter* but then again that would probably be doomed to failure, and who knows Vigilant probably won’t let them back again if they stab him in the back for a second time.
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Hey “Not Loki”, I really liked how you all summed it up from a “psychological” point of view, very entertaining and I think you could have hit SOME nails….
“Honestly though, don’t you guys think that it’s Christians like this that give the message Jesus tried to spread such a false and poor image?
Maybe that’s what you’re after? I don’t know, but it’s possible.”
You put a feeling in words that I have all the time when I see people from the VC forum and/or crew claiming that they are Christians but rather act fundamentalist like Taliban or twisting like occultists. I completely agree, thats probably their goal, play the role of the enemy (followers of the true, all loving God) and alter the “vibration”.
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Good points Not Loki. So we know that Russian Nika aka Katarzyna brags about making daily contact with Vigilant Citizen, or one of them. We also know that he (they) hate her because she betrayed him (them) before. We know that legally all threats are just stupid stupid stupid. I’m a lawyer and can vouch for that, no really I am. We also hear most of these legal bumblings and pseudo threats coming from his shills, like Loki and Russian Nika who called a truce with each other in order to fight a common enemy and because each of them have dirt on the other (it’s leaked though). The perpetrators are smart enough to not make stupid and dumb and empty legal threats themselves so they are not laughed at. So the only conclusion left is that someone is whispering these stupid things in their stupid ears (Loki Lou and Russian Nika) so they continue to sound stupid.
That’s right Kat. Joke is on you. You too Loki, but just a little bit.
Har Har Har
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this made me lol
“Daciple get a life man. A real one. Oh and a job, outside of cutting and pasting the Bible onto forums. You think you’ve converted people, but if you were really truly the man of God you cry out to be, get out in the real world and reach people there.
Henrik get a business man. A real one.
Chainmaker get a name man. A real one. That is if you really exist and if you’re really just a fragment of Daciple’s mind then get some good therapy.
Toby get a better move script man. A real one. That is if you really exist and if you’re really just an experiment then get a better name at least!
Mods at the VC get jobs kids. Real Ones.
Loki get a girlfriend man. A real one. Stop sending pictures of your penis around online you twit! That is if you’re really real and not just part of the experiment yourself.
RussianNika get a boyfriend girl. One that won’t dump you. That is if you’re really real and not just part of the experiment yourself.
Oh and Nika this screenshot was too tempting to let slip.
Too interesting that it was your 666 post and your title is Beast. Haha. Maybe it’s Gods way of telling people you’re the whore of Babylon? No offense, but if the shoe fits, right?
“The Whore of Babylon or “Babylon the great” is a Christian allegorical figure of evil mentioned in the Book of Revelation in the Bible. Her full title is given as “Babylon the Great, the Mother of Prostitutes and Abominations of the Earth.”
Do we have smiley faces we can add to comments here?
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If VC was really legit as he claims to be, he would be ASHAMED at what his site has become, a fangirl fest with sex threads running rampant.
If he was legit, he would ban or delete THOSE posters, not a curious few who DARE to question his identity/motives. Lame.
On to tha next.
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Exactly, but he welcomes and encourages what that joke of a forum has become.
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The site is only about making money. Stupid kids help that happen. What do you expect?
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Edit,
Notice how VCs Thread, Addressing a few issues,
Has about 700 views but ONE comment LOL
He deleted mad comments brah. Smh.
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Yup
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2 of the deleted comments were mine, 1 of which I simply stated some of the things that had happened, it’s linked in an earlier post of mine. After my comments were deleted so was I for a second time, this time with an IP ban. Nice, open and transparent just like he says.
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That’s what you get for working with “Toby” *snicker*
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Sorry to join the conversation so late, Chauk. I am not sure if this will even be seen I am not a regular poster on any forum but to like to read them. I have read over this thread and it has taken sometime. The comments have actually been more interesting than the actual blog item.
The first question of VC’s intentions or whatever. I have been a regular reader on VC’s website for some time. I mean for the last few years and I watched what people are calling the “civil war”, which is funny to me but that is a whole other topic, Anyways I learned a lot from reading the VC website, I knew about the “Illuminati” before finding VC’s website but I didnt know the had infilitrated the media, especially pop culture, so badly until i began reading there. I never really took too much notice of the ADs on the site. You are right when you say they conflict with what is talked about on the site, but I always considered as a educate yourself thing. If you want to learn more about the Occult, as in to defend against not practice, you may aswell become familiar with it. This is the approach I have always taken when intending to reassure my faith, so I did not think much of it.
What I will say is from what i see in the commments section here, it seems people have been having fun or playing games with you. The person who was talking about the social expriment I believe was just trying to make fun of people who cruise forums over this type of stuff. I also feel that most of the people here are either working together or communicate frequently. Perhaps this was all a charade to begin with? I am not sure but it all sounds a little rehearsed.
I will say I am glad you brought things to my attention. I do think it is very likely that VC could be a member of this GIN organization looking to make a huge profit for himself, butt in the same breath he does provide decent information on media breakdowns. He has stated many times he is connected to the music industry and he is a mystic christian, I dont know what that means, dont really care.
I have always found it strange that he continue to posts on teh same thing over and over never really swayying to other blantant Illuminati topics. The comments section of his articles seem to be a redundant recycle of the same thing. “Great job VC” “Truly amazing article” and the same crap. The answer could easily be he is just a egonist, if that is word, who likes to see his work praised. It is only human to want to profit off what one enjoys doing but to profit off disinformation is evil. I havn’t seen much to “disinfo” in his articles I dont click on links so I never really explored where they went.
Oh well im glad to have said something hope it wasnt too late, Take care.
-Qwickie
“gotta go fast”
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I’d like to clear your confusion up. You see, we were all on the VC site and had common topics of interest. Thus, many of us posted in the same sections and came to know each other. In fact, we’re all in different countries and don’t know each other. Yes, I am in contact with Ayaka. Because we’re friends.
But we have screenshots. I mean, I’ve been emailed a PM I got on VC, that’s pretty serious. Along with a threat. That is in itself harassment, but unlike some, I KNOW THE LAW and know that an email or posts on a blog are not legal grounds for harassment
Over all, VC seems nice but he bans those who expose the fiction of Hexa and his cronies on the light/non-light garbage they spew along with those who are against the Sex with everyone threads some people produce
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Truthseer, you said: “Over all, VC seems nice…” Are you feeling ok? You can’t be serious. What in your experience, makes him seem “nice”?
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Sorry, English isn’t my first language. I guess I should have used, on the first look
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We have not been “having fun” nor “playing games. I wasn’t much of a poster but had around 150 posts. Then one day for complaining that moderators were not doing enough to stop the sex obsessed posters who ignored the whole principles of the site, I was handed a 24 hour ban. After that I continued to feel the moderators were poor but contacted them only in the “preffered” “contact us” part. Never got any response from them EVER.
Then one day somebody posts about Mitch Joel, a couple of us asked about it in the thread then it was deleted, then a new thread was created simply called “Who is mitch joel?” a few of us were banned without reason from that thread, some were banned for asking why people were being banned.
So.. Do Not attempt to sum up many peoples individual experiences into having fun, you think this is FUN??
The only reason some of us are in contact is because we know each other slightly from the VC forum, we are here under similar circumstances in that we have being banned, or have seen what has been happening in terms of bans, deleted posts, threads, general behavior and numerous other things which could of been addressed.. were it not for the fact that VC and the moderators are all pathetic egotistical users of people who are unwilling to listen to any form of suggestion or criticism.
On the VC forums they accuse Chaukeedaar as being a “Toby” a long with all of us of course, you can either believe real people who were loyal users of the forum who may still have some posts on VC, or you can believe somebody who does not exist to you, who tells you that a phantom man called “Toby” can pretend to be over 20 people and create many websites all in order to try to… voice our experiences, which is all we have done.
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lol too funny quickie, was that straight from the chairman’s mouth?
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@Qwicksylver: IF you’re real, no worries, your not late and its understandable that you did not get the real topics at hand in all that comments mess. But honestly I doubt you are real, there is no real substance to your comment nor a question or anything, just that same lame PR nonsense from the VC marketing shills.
@Kenny Rogers:
“lol too funny quickie, was that straight from the chairman’s mouth?”
Good question 😉
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Oh and RussianNika, I dare you to contact my educational institution. I use the computer at home and it is my damn wish what I write. And try a case on me here in Pakistan, and we’ll see how you win. For your information, stupid girl, foreigners don’t win cases here and you’d have to get a damn lot of proof that shows I’m a terrorist or something, to have me brought to the US.
Plus, since the problem is yours, you’d have to file a case here then wait for the police here to do something. The US police has no jurisdiction here. Seriously, ignorant idiots post anything.
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Katarzyna: I am of the opinion that it is Toby’s blog because I’ve spoken to old posters and know that whoever has created this internet manifestation of their own mental illness has brought up information that no one but Toby would know and would bring up other than to bring in real life harm to specific individuals.
Answer this:
“What old posters” and “Why would a new poster (who claims not to be RussianNika) that joined in November have any understanding/opinion or vendetta against Toby if they never even witnessed him?”
Your arguments have zero logic; rather they seek to manipulate those who have ears to hear. I sincerely doubt anyone with a inkling of grey matter within the confines of their head would take anything you say as fact and the verbal diarrhea you call logic is a clear degeneration of your oral faculties. It would be a blessing to humanity as well as the general populace of this message board if you found the physical location of Mickael Kanfi and proceeded to utilize the orifice located above your torso for the reasons God had intended it for.
Nevertheless everything I say is futile because to my knowledge everyone here and on the VC boards have come to the clear understanding that you are RN and the only individuals your really are capable of decieving are those without knowledge of the events that lead to the deletion of the boards.
Sometimes what you tell people will come back to bite you for instance: telling people in a open chat-room that you are “in constant communication with Vigilant over email.”
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“Katarzyna: I am of the opinion that it is Toby’s blog because I’ve spoken to old posters and know that whoever has created this internet manifestation of their own mental illness has brought up information that no one but Toby would know and would bring up other than to bring in real life harm to specific individuals.”
She’s so stupid, or at least she plays the part well.
Let’s see, if “Toby” was a VC creation or part of the team there, then of course he’d know a lot about these users as would VC himself, or themselves.
1+1 = 2 as usual
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Yet another example of their manipulative dialect.
This site has only one article on Vc talking about the questionable ads. That’s it. The gentleman who owns this WordPress blog did not say anything even remotely close to talking about the “old boards”
Why do you keep calling this site “Toby” when recently unjustly banned users have exposed you, and not this “site”. It is a word press blog , litterally anyone can create one on anything, my friend has one on her house plants!
If anyone has grounds for liable it is him bc you keep claiming his small earnest blog to be some evil master mind. Get a flippin clue.
You people are deranged!!!!
Chauk, sugar, I’m so sorry for this.
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@femalepharoe: Hey lady, thanks for the “gentleman”, really had to smile about that name 😉 Please don’t feel sorry for others or for me, I’m 100% used to stupidity and can completely live peacefully in a world of mind-zombies. I know its not the only world there is and that the other places are much more of a harmony, I’m patient, you know 🙂
Hope you got over the stress of the stalking, was worring quite a bit after your story! Please ask for higher protection in such cases – if its urgent, they will be immediately here to help, already made that wonderful experience! In the meantime, my prayers go out for you.
Hare Krishna, Chaukee
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I can’t believe that dummy actually said that. OMG, she’s been too spoiled by her Daddy’s money that she never really had to work for anything and the lack of effort has stunted her mental growth.
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* she meaning Kat or RN
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Oh forgot to mention that she thinks the things we tell her.
Ah shiz did I let that out?
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*because something else (slanderous post and public threats)
I find it odd that people would profess :
” its just the internet get a life”
Then go about threatening a young man with university expulsion because you SUSPECT they have been inconveniencing you -on the internet
.
And to Loki,
Your (locked) post screams suspicion. The fact that you would claim to have read these comments , what would be pages and pages of testimony,and then feign “not knowing who the banned posters are ” is ridiculous.
Loki knows me very well, and though he has seemed very nice if a real person, his posts have clarified his role.
In one of my posts, he and I got into a ..spar of words so to speak.
The posts was on digital manipulation of photos written by a professional editor. As per his usual, he came in attesting them possibly being fake. As is his right.
Though when I queried as to how he came to this conclusion having no knowledge of the matter, we then got into a long conversation in which I detailed that he constantly sets on the fence about any and everything ever imagined. This seemed impossible as somewhere along the line someone chooses “this or that” even it it comes down to fav ice cream.
But not Loki.
One of the tools of brainwashing that we can see in the media, is the repetition and relation to something over and over and over , until the public believes it.
Now as I would just call Loki a “nice guy”. I have noticed that the accused shills in question always refer to him as “balanced”.
It’s.almost as if they are speaking characteristics from a script.
Thus, Loki.serves as a distraction agent to keep curious minds confused and perpetually wandering in the grey area… OH SH* “GREY MATTER” (hid old screen name)
….LOL, its too easy when you open yourself up to it guys….
To even propel yourself into these schools of thought, you are essentially on the fence but curious. DO I BELIEVE OR DON’T I?? That’s what you ask yourself.
THAT’S what this is about.
Some one who has been appointed the “resident logical voice of reason” whom purposely consistently straddles the fence is a great tool in discourageing truth seekers.
I REPEAT. if you no longer wish to be exposed stfu and stop pandering.to us!!! I grow weary of the lies and deceit! Leave us in peace.
Mmkk?
Thnx
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* also interesting observation I remember in the thread in question once I really git to the heart if the matter, he said ” I admit I didn’t exacy read it all the way through”
SOUND FAMILIAR???
I find it funny that ALL THE FORMER and CURRENT moderators and posters have falling band on this ” I didn’t read the whole thing” excuse once backed in a corner.
I find it funny that random.people can scroll in here and read and comprehend the information, wether they agree or not, but the once whose spent their time attempting to discreet us have not taken the time to even read our voices.
To whomever created an account to expose the nonsense on that thread kudos.
SilentO , excellent observation you have there.
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*ones * discredit
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Dead Vc,
I’ve done some creative media work.
Do you need a new person in your creative department?
For these cast of characters rolling up in the plot are geting tired and predictable.
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DEAR VC*
(SORRY TYPING ON A PHONE GUYS, PLEASE FORGIVE)
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Oh FP you’re on Loki too now, why?
You know what I think? I think you’re a double agent working on Vigilant Citizen’s side. Loki already said they had a bust up and then appologized to each other in the most recent thread on the topic, and he has never been anything but polite so why are you attacking him too (even though I have an idea), it seems non logical?
Here’s what I see so far. You’re well spoken and have taken a lot of time to think out your well written responses to all this mess, but what if you were set up as a double agent to begin with FP? What if? Let’s think about how this would work well in VC’s favor. Someone comes here in late October and posts some information that claims to reveal the identity of VC, and then Daciple and Tweeterfist come and start finger pointing Toby. Toby’s name is all the rage at the vigilant citizen website and more of his mindless supporters come here and bash them. At some point some of the users at the VC ask the question about who he is and get banned, and that leads to people believing there might be some truth to the rumors presented here. Then not long after that comes in FP the “derail” specialist.
FP says she asked the same question and got banned, but why would she do that if others asked that question and got banned? Why risk it, rjght? It’s pretty obvious, it’s because the others got banned and started believing that Toby was not real so Vigilant had to act quick and he sent in one of his best programmers. See how quick FP has gotten everyone’s trust, especially because she writes so well. Initially she played along with the idea that “Toby” is non existent right, and that has everyone trusting her and she even bought into the “Jones groups” story. So far so good. She’s taken a few shots at VC and his mod team so that solidifies that she’s on our side, right? Not! Let me present the evidence that proves she’s also on the payroll.
on 19/12/2011 at 16:31 femalepharoe
comes in to make fun of the “opposition” referring to anyone who has been supporting VC. She also says that she doesn’t believe in Toby right and she sounds all confident and all, right? Look at the time, then five hours later she comes in and starts setting doubts in saying she’s being stalked and other rumors that people from VC have been associating with Toby and his group, right? Even though she doesn’t say she thinks it’s Toby she lays some doubt and or suspicion in place
on 20/12/2011 at 01:40 | femalepharoe
This will prob be my last post , considering how the ..situation unfolds.
the night after, I received 3 phone calls from “private” numbers. As I only picked up the first one; the male caller started to ask me bizarre and obscene questions.
Earlier today, while finished some christmas shopping, someone again called me from a number – though not private- one I had never seen. I called back, it went straight to the default voicemail.
Top that all off with an email from linkdn telling me someone had “viewed” my age old profile….
Something is amiss. I’m not going to make any accusations. But if you can not see by now that too much chaos and treachery ensues with this than I don’t know what to tell you.
As for me: I would suggest these random harassment and coincidences cease. I am a horse of a different color you see.
So are we to believe that all of this happened in that 6 hour period? No way, that’s BS. If this was happening to you it would have definitely been over a 1 or 2 day period, maybe even longer. You wouldn’t have come in at one instance all confident that Toby was a myth, and then 6 hours later come in and start claiming you have doubts. I say you’re a double agent planted to keep the myth that there is a little hack causing trouble for Vigilant Citizen around so it keeps everyone’s mind off of the obvious, that VC is spreading disinformation. It’s such a classical elite tactic and you guys are working it so well!
If your door was opened from the inside, and you received phone calls with weird voices and demands and are asking that the harassments stop, why aren’t you going to the police? Oh yea, that’s right because none of those are happening and you’re hear to once again convince the people that this big bad VC created boogey man known as Toby is real.
I know I’m right and just as soon as she starts making more comments in that direction, that she’s starting to believe in Toby, we’ll all know shes a VC spokesperson too, and she’ll be busted too.
Know what else is suspicious, when Joby Tones comes around with his little rhyme and more “information” why does he link Toby VC and FP all in the same sentence?
What the fu-ck is up? Chaukee is the place to be
Coming on the comments is Joby-Mutha-Fuck-in-T
Vig is on the beat. FP is on the drums
So listen up close while we rip sh-it up….
Are they hiding it all out in the open again? Maybe I’m paranoid and maybe not because you know what they “he who is not paranoid is not paying attention”, but it seems like more than just mere coincidence.
I won’t be commenting anymore. Those are just my 2 cents.
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*facepalm
“Police, I need you over here right away,I believe an web site owner is harassing me..no..I don’t know its…well no he’s not here…but”
Yeah.
1. I don’t believe Toby to be behind that.
2.I said this happened over a week period, another disinfo agent who refuses to read.
3.if.you’re not a disinfo agent I’m flattered that you would believe me to be the infamous Toby and Vc but,
4.don’t try to play me.
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5. I didnt know others where banned as, we previously stated, it shows “offline” and they delete your “offensive’ posts so you just look like you’re gone. Notice there’s a guy here who was banned 3 months ago and no one knew..
6.I didn’t even comment about him on his site but provided enough info to know it was me in my post on another blog.
..and…yeah, don’t try to play me.
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Fp will jot be slandered people!
Furthermore, if this (fake) Toby and (young Canadian male) deceitful Vigilant have the social knowledge and capacity to fabricate a character such as myself. socially conscience somewhat pan Africanist young African American woman who has a taste for fionna Apple and classic hip hop. (As detailed in my posts that are still up)
Then I would have to commend them…
Ra, you see what I mean?? The racial implications??? A sister can’t be well spoken without being a “disinfo agent”…geesh
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That would be epic!
Police: ….
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You’re definitely over-analyzing things way too hard.
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That comment was directed @FP is VC and Toby
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Chaukeedaar just want to share with you that Not Your Ordinary Citizen, Pluto, and io are obviously one and the same individual.
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Hey Fritz Springmeier, welcome from the dead 😉
May I ask where your insight comes from? Textual analysis? There could be something to it.
But I must disappoint you, I’ve analysed the IP addresses of the three during the last 9 days, layered the time phases when they each kept the same IP and compared it. Unless this one person you claim has three different computers accessing the web by three different providers your wrong. All coming from different networks.
As for the impersonation thing, I don’t mind too much, I rather focus on the content and that already reveals a lot.
Greetz, Chaukee
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Thanks Chaukeedaar but I haven’t really been dead. I just like faking 🙂
Being online at the same time while using multiple different IP addresses is really very simple. You only need multiple browsers and proxies. Those three ‘individuals’ share certain noticeable idiosyncrasies.
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On the Fritz, you have a lot of knowledge on how those things work as you do with MPD’s and how to elicite them. So my questions
– Are you them by any chance? ROTFL
– If not, can you elicit their MPD’s with your fancy shmancy mind recovery program?
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Actually, not your ordinary Citizen is definitely not Io or pluto. I can confirm that
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@Fritz Springmeier, lol Wow! Where do you come off making these allegations especially with such assuredness? I don’t know how someone can just pull something like that from their rear end and believe it to be accurate. Chaukeedar, thank you for proving this liar wrong.
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It is unfortunate that my earlier reply to Chaukeedaar has not been showing up on this blog and now io appears calling me a liar. I know much more than would fit in your comfort zone brah. 😉 Maybe I will spill some beans here or elsewhere if I get the feeling that people are trying to play childish games with me.
Chaukedaar did not prove me wrong. He only said it was unlikely given the different IP addresses. I explained how this could be done but as said this post never made it while I did receive conformation that it was a duplicate comment the second time I clicked the ‘Post Comment’ button.
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I’m now convinced that you people are crazy…you invent the most inane BS. You’re pretending to know something that you don’t, “brah.”
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No prob Fritze, thanks for mentioning, found a comment of yours in the spam section… Weird enough! Actually there’s lots of spam posts I thought I already have approved for being ok, I guess I’m too stupid for this.
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Fritz you’re a regular Oliver North brah. Are you TOBY TOO, just trying to create confusion amongst us? You can’t prove me wrong, you can only say it is unlikely given your different IP address, but maybe you’re VC and Toby? I can’t be proven wrong, just be told it might be unlikely.
😉
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@chaukeedaar, No problem friend. Maybe the spam filter reacted to my changing IP addresses and all those cookies getting binned 🙂
@Twitter Fingers, I’m no VC or Toby, let alone that sack of excrement Olly North. Not trying to create confusion, just stating the obvious brah. 😉
@io, Last and certainly least. I really don’t care if you are the same individual as pluto, just like the American singer-songwriters or dead prez over at VC d’-‘
One thing is certain you both reside in the same solar system to mention just the most obvious in a lengthy series of clues. Just don’t call me a liar brah even when my name is Fritz Springmeier. ಠ_ಠ
Cheers, your friend uncle Fritzl
\m/*.*\m/
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@Fritz Springmeier, you aren’t making any sense. And yes, you are a liar because you make false accuastions and state them as being absolute truth without actually knowing anything. You can go on believing whatever you want to because despite the evidence that disproves your ridiculous theory, your inventive mind has already been made up.
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On the Frits, you’ve provided good quality reasoning here. They reside in the same Solar System, therefore there is a probability that they may indeed be the same.
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lol @ Fritz
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Cool story bro.
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right. just read all the comments. this shit does not fucking suprise me. them stupid mods are fucking corrupt douches. bout time you heard my story. i was your run of the mil avrage poster. i felt like a baws when pms were restored. heartwell sent me a message when they came back. i couldnt reply cuz i were just under the too fitty mark. i got my post count up then replied. at first the messages were normal. but they got fucking sick quick. it was too fucking much for me. i reported heartwell. was banned the very next day. screw. you. heartwell. and. screw. your. fucking. sick. ways.
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Those mods*
Mill*
Average*
“too fitty mark”….What is this? I don’t even…. =/
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why is my post not coming up??? you fucking censoring me again heartwell!!!
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Ok, to the unknowing, let me explain:
This is a wordpress blog, not an online forum. You do not have a user account that is approved like in a forum, everybody can comment and choose a name, you can even change your name with every post if you like (some almost do 😉 ).
Thus on a blog you do not “post”, you “comment”. Normally you write something related to the leading article above…
When you first comment, wordpress lets me confirm your comment before its online. If you change your name with every comment, I have to confirm it every time.
I do not live in the same time zone as most VC users do. Might be a shock for some, there is a world beyond the United States, and guess what, they even have internet 🙂
Plus I do have a live beyond this silly bloggers existence. In the worst case you wait for days until your comment is up, so better relax and use the time to improve the comments you are about to post that will steal precious time from hundreds of people.
Hope that was not too complicated for some…
Peace, Chaukee
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Awkward moment where the button says “post comment”…
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let me post ffs
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Isn’t it convenient that each time a post is made on VC addressing the issues brought on this site it gets closed right away. Also note who is in there derailing the discussion that leads to the thread being closed.
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You got that right Willie Boy, and it’s always Fat Kat
Daciple makes his usual illiterate appearances. Oh Lawd that kid is so dense and thick it’s not funny.
On occasion TweeterFink steps in. Usually Loki and Henrik are involved but one retired and the other is looking for work, lol. Most of the rest just do what is cool, but it’s always that Fat Kat putting her stubby toes in her mouth isn’t it?
Dac, my friend because we all know you are keeping tabs on this site while pretending not to care 🙂
You have so many feelings and so many are wrong, looking from the outside in knowing what intentions are from the other parties, knowing what you conclude, but you know; to each their own and homie that’s all you gots.
To be honest Dac, there is nothing that anyone wants more than for you to continue wasting your time on that site, nothing. Where else would we get our entertainment from, watching you dance in predictable ways? Belieee dat bro!
😉
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Here’s an actual photo of Mickael Kanfi:
It’s from this website:
http://www.fitc.ca/awards/judges.cfm
I also found this when looking for more information surrounding the scam.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vigilant-Citizen/166640076710657
“Weird. So i stumble on this site and it talks about in the comments how Vigilant Citizen is actually either Mitch Joel or Mickael Kanfi. Owners of a media marketing agency you begin to wonder if he’s around to spread the light on the truth, or just hired by the music industry to create buzz for music artists because they happened to cover one eye.”
In the comments that follow, notice how “Vigilant” tries to deny the connections (naturally).
I’m still scratching my head trying to figure out what this is:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia%3aToby
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Cont.
An interesting start turn into pointlessness:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8139
Defending their “entertainment”:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8187&start=0
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7846&start=10
From the above thread
“I dont see anything wrong with this vid to me its like miss piggy hair goes with the ppl opening thats all I see about it its not bad its just a parody.”
Fan support thread (It’s even openly admitted in the first post.):
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8387
“This thread is up for debate and just pure fan support.”
Hilarious:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7371
Quotes from users:
“I thought the movie was boring.”
“I watch it and it was weird. It was like, we’re blind, so get ready for raaaaaaaape. lol, I don’t get that at all. Dumb.”
xinettte replies:
“No,The movie told us we are blind!
Did’nt you get it as I did?”
In conclusion, most of the more current threads lead to nowhere.
I think this photo sums up VC perfectly. Agree?
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“If you’re not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
― Malcolm X
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*claps*
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I suspect 4FT3RM4TH of being VC. His posts are strongly resembling light versions of VCs front page articles as if to test the water beforehand to see how reception will be and to receive feedback on errors. They also share the same mind numbing masonic floor, covered eye, butterfly and triangle fetish.
Example: http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=734
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Indeed very possible
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now THIS IS interesting.
Right before I was banned I got a pm from a user saying “what’s going.on”
Without going into too much detail ,.I pretty much said to be careful.bc I didn’t know what was going on regarding the site.
They gave me their email , and immediately afterwards I was banned. It was so quick I asked if HE ,the user, was Vc.
Now this posts :
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8816
Is encouraging the Vc users , on a conspiracy sight, to NOT clear their board cookies. In a simple Google search of what would clearing cookies do,
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080902124705AAy2yfK
We learn from a random yahoo user that though it may speed things.up, it is a way for the site to know when you visit, track stuff on your hard drive , an could ultimately threaten your privacy.
This reminds me of the LONE response on Vc’s thread addressing”a few things” .
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8645&sid=e9ed1d564f735aef9b4c93aa9ee1dd32
In which a suspected shill is advising the public to log in automatically. It is odd that of all of the things to address he chose to.address the filter and this guy comes in encourageing to log on automatically and that’s the only post allowed to stay.
One of these fellows where the user who emailed me , seconds before I was banned. Why are they encouraging users to log.on auto and to NOT clear their cookies (which is just odd in itself) ?
Hmmmm..
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Not clearing cookies is a horrible idea, whether you be the most trusting person in the world or not. Do you know that sites can access cookies? Do you know that, in some cases, one can find your password if you have cookies?
If cookies were harmless, then the NSA would not install cookies on your computer that do not expire till 2035. It is read by ads to give the ads you have on VC and who knows what else ‘reads’ this info
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So it was Daciple who emailed you before you got banned and he’s the one telling people not to clear cookies and login automatically? I guess the whole idea that he’s a controlled opposition member could very well be accurate. Do you think he types like a “lesser intelligent” person by design?
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Maybe that is why vc bans many proxy sites so that your ip can be tracked.
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Putting all the info and links here, I’ll make it coherent later
http://theoutercircle.yuku.com
Is the site RN made.( I can’t access Yuko, I might make an account to check this out)
Well, passing over Toby, I FINALLY got into his site (And will get banned soon) and have got some real info which I am posting with this post because I’m sure Truthfiles will ban me
The last spate of bannings. One is nyk, one is magot, old members
Here is what Tweet found after becoming mod (I think)
BTW he knows I’m ts somehow
This proved to me he is either VC or one of the mods.
TELL ME, IF HE IS Not VC, how he knows I’m Basilisk, the alt I made which only Vig and Lay know about. I trust Laya implicitly so it’s obviously vig
And some screenshots from Toby or should I say idiotic copy of VC’s site
That’s all. I hope you enjoy this huge amount of info I’ve amassed
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Putting all the info and links here, I’ll make it coherent later
http://theoutercircle.yuku.com
Is the site RN made.( I can’t access Yuko, I might make an account to check this out)
Well, passing over Toby, I FINALLY got into his site (And will get banned soon) and have got some real info which I am posting with this post because I’m sure Truthfiles will ban me
The last spate of bannings. One is nyk, one is magot, old members
Here is what Tweet found after becoming mod (I think)
BTW he knows I’m ts somehow
This proved to me he is either VC or one of the mods.
TELL ME, IF HE IS Not VC, how he knows I’m Basilisk, the alt I made which only Vig and Lay know about. I trust Laya implicitly so it’s obviously vig
And some screenshots from Toby or should I say idiotic copy of VC’s site
That’s all. I hope you enjoy this huge amount of info I’ve amassed
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“Here is what Tweet found after becoming mod (I think)
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1043/vc2.png”
^That says alot about Vig’s character. People were just dumb enough to go back.
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So from what I gather from those links, several users were banned from VC, (and were each given pathetically petulant childish messages for the reason behind their bans), these users then went over to a different forum which had a focus on Christianity but for some reason they eventually came back to VC and simply acted like nothing happened. The same thing has essentially happened to many of us on VC and they, being no strangers to VC’s tactics, simply turn a blind eye to it all….?
Before this situation blew up, I had at least a small amount of respect for the moderator Tweeterfist (the only one on there who I thought was at the least, a bit more open-minded in regards to hearing people out since he chose to respond to our comments about our negative experiences on VC). Now it’s clear that he is just as big a joke as the rest of them and certainly is VC’s little right-hand minion. He has failed to followup on anything he has said on here– He agreed that many of us had been unjustly banned, he said he would look into it with the mod team, he said that we could go back on the forums under a new name, he told one of us that he would see to it that a chat was arranged to discuss an issue with a mod…and now he fails to post or respond to ANYTHING. Basically,he has lied to us and ran away, but I suppose I can speculate as to why…by refraining from engaging in further discussion on here, he is placating his master. We’re talking about some really disturbed people.
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Interesting information TS, but I have a question for you. Why would you tell Vig or Laya that you were registering on TF as Basilisk? Why would VC or Laya tell the moderator there if they supposedly are at war with them?
here’s what you said,
“BTW he knows I’m ts somehow
This proved to me he is either VC or one of the mods.
TELL ME, IF HE IS Not VC, how he knows I’m Basilisk, the alt I made which only Vig and Lay know about. I trust Laya implicitly so it’s obviously vig”
I guess I’m missing something, but that doesn’t really make sense? The part about you telling Vigilant Citizen that you were going to register an alt called Basilik at TF, or am I reading into that, because that’s what it sounds like?
Hey guys get a load of this.
Daciple says,
“So a specific group of posters was targeted led off and have been continually harassed by whomever it was in an attempt to get us banned from VC, and it worked for a time. In fact many of the Prominent Posters against that Ideology still arent here, a few are but many arent, that IMO was the point of all of this. I didnt and still dont notice ANY person who was a Prominent supporter of the Mysteries saying they are being harassed, I dont see ANY of them being impersonated, only the Christians that adamantly rejected and opposed that ideology or people who were considered possibly sympathetic to that group.
I also noticed that when all of us left or were banned on the Reset of the Boards it was FILLED with NOTHING but Ultra Rational Atheists and Gnostic Supporters, people who match up with the ideology of the first Jones. Many of those first posters have disappeared once those who were banned by VC were let back on. Seems like a hell of a coincidence to me…”
Is this stupid kid really that stupid to suggest that someone led them out of VC just to get them banned? Why would that ever have to happen when we have a good half dozen people here as evidence that you can get banned at VC for just asking the wrong question. Wouldn’t that mean if VC wanted to ban Daciple and his gang of Christian gangsta’s wouldn’t he just go ahead and do it, just like he did to IO, Pluto, FP, NYOC and the other active users commenting on this blog as he pleases?
I’ll repeat for the sake of clarity:
Daciple, if you weren’t wanted at VC you would just get banned for whatever reason they please just like the users commenting here have been. Think about it.
Logic and Reason are meant to be the guiding forces of your mind Daciple. Get acquainted with them because if you’re emotions are out of control you make up all sorts of asinine theories like this one.
Also, wasn’t Toby a staunch Christian and not a Rational Atheist or Gnostic supporter like you are now claiming?
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Weird, but question for you. You said that only Laya and Vig knew about your Basilisk alt right? Why would you tell Vig that you were creating an alt and going to TF with it in the first place, or am I reading into your comment there? Just curious, that’s all.
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Are you saying that twitterfeet was kicked off the site but eventually became a mod? How does that work?
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It’s right up there. Later VC wanted a mod that seemed Christian because all his mods have either been atheists or in one case, immoral christians.
He was kicked out after the first board drama. Let me say that though SOME were allowed to return, the majority either never returned or were not allowed to return by VC
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If your conclusion is wrong that “Toby” is “VC” then they must at least know each other and are working together, at least I don’t really see any other conclusion there.
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For anyone who has received an email from VC you can look at the
“Full Headers” {usually at the bottom of an email} and view info such as the senders ip address.
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Information on not-published comments:
I just found out that during this whole “discussion” a lot of comments directly went to the spam folder, mostly because those comments where full of porn words or other nonsense.
From now on I’m going to delete/not publish comments that
– contain explicit words of a certain level
– only contain stupid texts copied from the VC board
– have no real information value other that the author intended to derail the discussion
Sad that some people don’t act like they are guests here.
Now some of you can start to weep about my fashist censoring methods 😉
Namaste, Chaukee
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I understand. I was just showing more examples such as the ones already posted where certain people derail the OP topic. They are not appropriate but they are examples of the what gets away with being posted on vc.
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Okay, I’ll admit what I was doing with all those post.
I was trying raising the question: “Why is it people who go to the site for information get banned, whereas those teens that abuse the site and use it for a chat room get to stay?” It’s been bothering me for months and I just couldn’t find an answer.
Therefore, I exposed a good majority of the site’s users while trying to provide the perfect evidence that displays the typical mentality of most of the VC message board users.
The reason I posted the “Toby” Wiki article was because the “Toby” article was very cryptic and I figured it had something to do with the VC “Toby”.
I just couldn’t figure out the main purpose behind it and thought it would expose VC a bit more.
I’ve been seeing a ton of stuff recently with the “Toby Is Watching You” motif and I just can’t find a clear explanation as to what it’s supposed to be.
Is it the VC “Toby” or is it some other Toby? Meme or marketing gimmick? That I don’t know.
As for the Kanfi photo, I posted that because I wanted to give people a better idea as to who one of the people behind VC looks like. The first one with his wife didn’t give a clear picture.
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I was trying to prove that point also. There are two posts specifically where the person states that they derail threads. This person also uses such vulgarity that my previous posts with actual quotes is too offensive (I admit it is vulgar, but it is acceptable on vc, unlike all the stuff we have been banned for). My point is how and why is this stuff acceptable free speech although other peoples free speech is not acceptable? No other “conspiracy” website has threads like the ones vc has been flooded with as of recently. I also question the reasoning behind someone posting so many of these kinds of posts on that kind of site.
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Hey Femmes Rouge and Opus Dei,
No worries, guys, I understand and understood your intentions. My rules are not meant to criticize anything backwards, but inform what I’m not going to allow from now on. I just don’t want a certain level of offensive texts published on my blog, but you are all absolutely free to link to the VC board or externally saved screenshots if it serves an informative purpose.
Greetz, Chaukee
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Whoa, TS!
Thanks for posting that.
TS, may I ask WHY you claim to trust Laya?
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Laya would never inform anyone of anything without asking me. I have full trust in her
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truthseer
Laya would never inform anyone of anything without asking me. I have full trust in her
Is that why you threatened to rape her then?
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What a horrible lie. Laya can confirm I never did that
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Truthseer:
Stop name-dropping me, I will not endorse you, I will not confirm/deny anything for you and I most certainly will not defend you.
Chaukeedaar:
I have no respect whatsoever for you. People here have name called, insulted and attacked other members, to a considerable degree, but your “us vs them” mentality seems to have clouded your judgement as you totally ignored that, instead choosing to commend said members, thanking them profusely for “providing information”.
You egging them on is a weak attempt at keeping your blog active, you’ve seen how much publicity using VC has generated and you are taking advantage of that.
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@layaamani,
Chaukeedaar created an article on HIS blog theorizing that VC was disinformation…many of us stumbled across his blog DUE to VC’s and the moderators’ actions (actions which lend credence to Chaukeedaar’s theory).
Why should he silence people who are sharing their experiences by commenting on his article, just because it happens to offends you and your ilk over at the VC message board?! Sorry, this blog doesn’t roll like the Vigilant Citizen…
One thing that I’ve noticed is that unlike VC, Chaukeedeer is not a robotic emotionless soul, he is a much more spiritually developed and aware than the individual(s) who run VC; thus your accusation that he promotes an “us vs them mentality” and is “egging on” to keep his blog active is ludicrous, as that is not the frequency he operates on. Notice how he also hasn’t censored you people on his blog…? He has all my respect, and I doubt he will lose any sleep over your announcement that you have no respect for him.
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Laya. Just one response
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Truthseer:
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How immature. Though you are a VC poster, I still expected better. What an obvious troll response. Though then again, this is the average intelligence of a person who believe in VC. The only reason I posted a song was because it pretty much summed up what I wanted to say
Still just follow the message of the song and get out of my way and shut up
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Can’t handle the video which you spammed the forum with (which, incidentally was one of the reasons why you were banned)? My bad.
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Please leave the BS VC message-board-type replies in the BS pile it belongs in over at VC…Thank you.
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I only posted that video in one thread, you know. And the owners had no problem with it. Oh well, I am arguing with someone who’s the VC mod and you have to lie a lot to be one. Still shocks me you’re mod, you don’t lie….
But then again, one doesn’t need to lie to be deceptive. Or to betray people. Or to be a complete idiot. After all, one can just tell half truths and not lie. Sound familiar?
By the way who’s the butthurt troll now?
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WTF? It was the video spamming which got him banned? Not the constant calling everyone “jelly”? Not the threads calling for the death of all homosexuals? He should have been banned a LONG time ago.
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“I only posted that video in one thread, you know. And the owners had no problem with it. Oh well, I am arguing with someone who’s the VC mod and you have to lie a lot to be one. Still shocks me you’re mod, you don’t lie….
But then again, one doesn’t need to lie to be deceptive. Or to betray people. Or to be a complete idiot. After all, one can just tell half truths and not lie. Sound familiar?
By the way who’s the butthurt troll now?”
You posted over 34 autoplays of “RANDOM DANCING” in the following threads:
This Is A Thread
OMG UFO
What I Look Like Thread
Welcome New Posters: Introduce yourself here!
Sexxxyyy Guyss 🙂
Goodbye Thread
Chainmaker is cool
Sort of ironic that you’re lecturing me on liars, no? 😉
And seeing as you’re STILL making new VC accounts, I’d say you were the butthurt troll 😉
Minotaur ring a bell?
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Hey layaamani,
It’s ok for me that you have no respect for me plus I do understand part of your arguments for this. You’re right, I’m biased in my comments and I claim every right to be so in a truthers blog comments section, even if its my own blog. Its not fun for me at all to read that low-level language here that you guys cultivated over there at the forums, be it from the pro- or contra-VC side. I decided to not censor it (up to a certain degree of kinkiness) in order to let the words of a writer speak for itselves. Its not that I chose to be the big kindergarten teacher for you VC kids. Perhaps its time for you to go back to your well regulated playground. You have every right to do so 😉 Because this here is the truth, this is real people, with all the hights and deeps human spirits can get. All the spiritual warfare out there between the occult and the people of God, dragged out on a blog’s comments section. It’s nasty, I don’t like it either, but for some reason I find myself in this complicated life and try to be as positive and truthful I can be.
If I give positive feedback to statements its because I’m happy about it at that moment for having learned something, or for encouraging people on their way.
“You egging them on is a weak attempt at keeping your blog active, you’ve seen how much publicity using VC has generated and you are taking advantage of that.”
Now I’m very interested in the kind of advantage you’ve detected. Publicity is really nothing that interests me at all (at my old age).
Thanks for your critisism anyways, hope I could make some points more clear.
Peace, Chaukee
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Laya,
Who let the dogs out?
Take a hint?
Pass it on…
http://status.idolbin.com/details.php?id=1012585769&page=2&until=1314417564
Need more?
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I never called for the death of homosexuals. I merely stated what most religions say.
As for the mod who I used to be friends with, who the hell is Minatour? Give proof I made those accounts or get out. Tweet gave no proof and neither will you. You’re all either liars or completely deceived. Give me proof of this Minatour alt. It might take you a few thousand years to prove it. Because you’d have to fabricate stuff.
As for the vid, it was posted relevantly.
And yes, homosexual acts are evil for the religious. I am free to state that. I am also free to state what happened in the 16th century to gays. I am also free to agree that we were more religious in those days and should go back to that. However, I never stated we should explicitly go back to burning.
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Laya,
Where do you think you are?
What do you think you’re defending?
Is it fun?
Pass it on…
http://status.idolbin.com/details.php?id=1012585769&page=2&until=1314417564
Need more?
Maybe some of your own?
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Lol. Your commentary and hand writing is hilarious . Lol.
How/why have you amassed this info?
And why were.so many people allowed to come back.
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Only got into the site. Weird thing is that there is no sign of a ban or threats on Toby’s ste.. Infact the only person attacked is RN, the troll
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Chaukeedaar,
I think you should look into making a forum if you were inclined to do so lol, you would be a good and fair owner.
Or if that can not come to pass , out of all of us who posted it is unfortunate that none of us are either willing or have the capabilities to create a forum.
I have looked at some forums and I have to be honest, they all have a problem.. but I supposed that’s to be expected. David Ickes is too large, ATS is too large (and racist, ego maniacs). Others I looked at seemed to be a friendly face but upon deeper exploration they seem to be the same as VC, meaning a total lack of respect for the users who are what makes a forum.
The fact that VC had gotten full of simpletons and sex mad teenage pop fans shows exactly what they want there, a forum usual = the interest of its owner.
So in closing I hope those of us without a home forum can find one where we can share our thoughts and ideas, without trying to censor ourselves or having to put up with a bullying clique of circus clowns with computers.
P.S @Fritz Springmeier.. To assert that some of us are the same person while totally disregarding the blog owners evidence shows how utterly ridiculous your assertion was. What exactly could we do to convince your almighty mind that we are indeed different people? is writing multiple blog comments in different and unique styles upon a multitude of events not enough for you?.. You know about changing your IP what does that say about your character? Can you also change your ISP reference? you see I do not know ANYTHING about all of that. I have enough trouble being one person..
Finally to all the people who insist on coming here and posting a comment which consists of 1..2..3.. words? don’t bother.. it shows you are just VC loyalists trying to clog up these comments because that’s EXACTLY what you do on VC whenever a topic is brought up, make a funny face or “^^this^^”. Another gripe about the quality of threads on VC is that people start a thread and just enter a link to an article, they don’t write a summary or an opinion or anything, because they can’t..
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Well, I have a site on which I have forums, albeit empty
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I have found a few other sites with similar questions in regards to unfair banning and deleted messages on vc
http://newworldorder.dyndns-web.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=761&start=130
http://www.taraariano.com/im-caught-in-a-bad-romance-with-the-vigilant-citizen/
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@pluto, My name is Fritz Springmeier you see, that’s why I enjoy talking out of my arse so much. It is my second nature and the very reason why VC likes to quote me as an authority in support of the male bovine excrement he likes to publish on his website. Even the court fool has a role to play in this drama.
Like truthseer I’m also a l337 hax0r who will remain “anonymous” without breaking a sweat. I can remotely activate the camera on your phone. Let’s see.. you are an African-American female with short boyish black hair. You are not the same individual as Not Your Ordinary Citizen after all ;-).
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Lol.. nice try.. you didn’t win a prize.
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Fartwell, you have to be careful divulging plans through chat box cuz you never know who’s watching. Maybe Toby is watching. LOLOLOLOL
N.I.C.E. Guy
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@Not I Common Enemy, I ain’t Hartwell. Just want to make this clear because (s)he seems to be a nice person. I have no problems with the mods over at VC. My only beef is with the deliberate misinterpretation on the VC homepage. If people wouldn’t be so damn lazy and invested a few hours in looking up things then they might see how biased those articles are. But to make money one needs to write for the common denominator.
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Did I say Hartwell?
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l337 haxor what???????
I can’t remotely activate cameras, sorry
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TS you say this “TELL ME, IF HE IS Not VC, how he knows I’m Basilisk, the alt I made which only Vig and Lay know about. I trust Laya implicitly so it’s obviously vig”
My question is; why the heck would you tell Vig you were making Basilisk and going to the other forum, or am I missing something here and just reading into it?
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Vig banned me for being TS. (Details given below)
So he knew who I was
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TS you say this “TELL ME, IF HE IS Not VC, how he knows I’m Basilisk, the alt I made which only Vig and Lay know about. I trust Laya implicitly so it’s obviously vig”
My question is; why the heck would you tell Vig you were making Basilisk and going to the other forum, or am I missing something here and just reading into it?
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http://newworldorder.dyndns-web.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=761&sid=6c6f4b5c54275961c1578b5fee44c82c&start=30
TS why are you explaining VC’s ad rotations and stuff. That’s just plain weird. What do you care?
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Did anyone answer this?
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That was long ago, when I was like all the other VC fan boys/girls
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Here’s my site, you can register and create topics anytime you want. There’ll be no modding except removal of spam comments
theostudio.webs.com
You can use the forum. I have no articles or anything so the site will be pretty much what you guys make it
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Ok, guys. I’ve tested my privileges and banned an account (It was me, just testing what I can do)
Anyways, I’ve made a few sections and got everything together in this time. So if you guys want to join, you can.
I can’t (Or at least, I haven’t been able to) see people’s IP’s. If I am able to but haven’t found out yet, I’ll update this. I can’t ban IP’s either, I can only file a request to webs to ban the IP the ID is operating from. Similarly, I can’t delete who last updated a certain forum.
For example, if femalepharoe posts something and I delete it, being evil, the forum will still show that it was last updated by FP though her post will be gone. You can try that if you like
Now as for your privileges, I have no idea. I joined as another account (The one I deleted and tested my mod privileges on) and could post and edit though I didn’t try delete
Other than that, I haven’t got any topics rolling, I’ll get them rolling if there’s interest or rather you guys will
New Members can join without admin approval so you guys can join anytime (Not sure of this since I created the fake account with this IP and maybe it’s permitted itself, only you guys can tell me)
So, ok?
And sorry, chauk that I’m advertising so blatantly on your site but really, I really don’t wish to. In fact, I’m rather hoping to make a moderator and hand over most of the duties to him/her since I don’t want to play mod.
Sorry Chauk. I really shouldn’t advertise
So the site’s
theostudio.webs.com
I initially made it to update my game, it had a forum but it was empty. I just launched the first topics today.
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Ok, update on the IP
I can see which proxy you’ve used (Not the IP). My stats also show which country you’re operating from. BUT it does not show which MEMBER used which proxy and from which country
So who’s the guy from Canada?
Genuinely curious to this one, since there’s only one person I know from Canada (I believe)
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Ok guys, I can see IP’s and ban them. It was deep inside the settings.
I don’t intend to do any tyranny, I’m just saying what privileges I have.
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If you look at the address here of VC himself in your own screenshot
70.29.159.24
is VC’s
and that shows up from
IP: 70.29.159.24
Decimal: 1176346392
Hostname: bas2-montreal27-1176346392.dsl.bell.ca
ISP: Bell Canada
Organization: Bell Canada
Geolocation Information
Country: Canada
State/Region: Quebec
City: Laval
Latitude: 45.6
Longitude: -73.7333
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“Sorry Chauk. I really shouldn’t advertise”
Absolutely no worries, dear truthseer, your informations are completely ON TOPIC! 🙂
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I can’t reveal info (That would be bad of me) but the IP is different
Though intriguing the similarities are, other than the IP
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Sure thing, no need to reveal information but you can check the geographical info to see if they’re coming from the same place though I wouldn’t stress it because Canada is a big place and there’s bound to be more than a few people from Canada visiting VC. I imagine there are many many many people from VC reading this blog judging by the comments. I have a few more things to say, but am going to finish my coffee first.
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I wouldn’t stress on the Geographical location if the ISP weren’t the same.
Though that’s the most info I’ll give, I don’t check IP’s much, it was just the first time.
Don’t let that scare you if you’re thinking of joining. The only case I’ll check IP’s in is if the member is going mad with abuse
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I haven’t joined another forum since being banned from the VC 3 months ago by his band of so-called “Christian warriors”. I think it gave me a greater insight into why some mainstream versions of Christianity are heavily pushed onto society.
Many of these so-called “Christians” accurately see that there is a lot of Bible bashing going on in the media these days, amongst other religions being targeted as well, like Islam, but I’m of the opinion that this is deliberate and it is to strengthen this Christian factions “resistance” to what they perceive will be the NWO. Parts of Islam and other religions also included in this.
You need that sort of resistance to bring order from chaos and unwittingly these “resistance groups” are providing it. They don’t, as far as I can see, embody much of the message that Jesus portrayed. Yes, I know he was a bad ass to money changers and condemned the truly evil, but these modern day copy cats think they can do the same to others. The funniest thing, if you read above you’ll note most of this is that these “Christians” are all “sinners” in the same way that they condemn others to be. If that’s not the definition of hypocrisy, then I don’t know what is.
On the topic of forums, I haven’t checked yours yet and I’m probably not really inclined to join at this time only because I get my daily dose of “conspiracy” from this blog at the moment, but why doesn’t Chauk, and you if you want to moderate, link up one of those free php blogs to this free wordpress site and those that have been unjustly kicked out of VC can use that as a platform?
I’m sure this suggestion will solidify in the minds of the sycophants of VC that we’re all just Toby again, but that myth seems to be fully debunked as far as I’m concerned. You’re probably right, as are the others who suggest that Toby is a creation of the authors at VC for the purpose of creating the dialectic they need for user participation.
Here are some free php boards. Chauk what do you think?
http://www.phpbb.com/
It has a built in chat function associated with the board and would be a perfect platform?
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Hey NYOC,
Thanks for the suggestion but you guys really have to help yourself with a new board. I know what work it is to run a forum from my real life and I have absolutely no resources left, sorry!
Cheers, Chaukee
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Can’t rely on IP for location, I have 2 devices one gives my location the other says I’m in another country.
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That by the way I only just found out, and that is only by Email, since my mobile phone uses an Email client which is based in another country. So I guess email clients don’t always give reliable IP information on users, but on the main hub for a region.
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Been away for a few days, but judging by all the interesting comments nothing has changed much.
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People who can’t realise that VC’s site is just a money making sight then they are the blind ones. This guy talks out against freemasonry and yet has an ad for the purchasing of freemason rings. Now, I don’t believe in these theories nor am I a religious person, and that made me an enemy off the bat on that site.
I argued, fought tooth and nail with some of those lunatics on that site with proper information yet I was called a ‘troll’ when they couldn’t defend themselves. I called one of them something and I got warned for a ‘personal attack’ (even though VC seemed to miss all the attacks against me) then I went off the boil and got banned.
Also someone needs to remind those mods on there that they shouldn’t feel all too powerful about banning people from a lowly website, there is a real world out there.
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Welcome to the rebels, dear THANKGODIMANATHEIST!
Thank God that an Atheist like you thanks God… 😉
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lol thanks. And yeah, I wasn’t trying to be smart or anything because I’m willing to one day accept that everything here is a work of some type of God.
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Is this the Daciple above?
“Im gonna go find work, take care of my family, preach the Gospel to everyone I can, go where God leads me and show the Love of God the best that I can to everyone I meet. Nothing will change regardless of any turmoil that may or may not come about. It doesnt concern me, Preach Christ Show Love thats all that matters…”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8831&start=10
Didn’t he just meet a girl who had a child out of wedlock and now he’s supporting them on his welfare checks? How does that equate to having a family? He professes to be a Christian and goes around cutting and pasting the Bible telling “unbelievers” in ‘HIS’ ideology that they are going to hell, while FORNICATING with a woman who has born a child out of wedlock to another man while living off of welfare?
Does anyone else see something wrong with this?
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comments not even showing they’re in moderation sequence, just not showing up at all?!
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I’ve asked this question before, but no answer or my comment didn’t show
“TELL ME, IF HE IS Not VC, how he knows I’m Basilisk, the alt I made which only Vig and Lay know about. I trust Laya implicitly so it’s obviously vig”
TS, why would you tell Vig that you were making an alt and going to the other site? What is the purpose of that? You working for him too at some point, lol, or am I missing something here? Laya is also one of his mods, you don’t think she’s running back to tell him stuff too?
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Vig can see my IP and he’s the one who banned Basilisk, wrote, I know who you are and sent me a cease and desist notice.
Laya is a good-ish friend and I know she wouldn’t go tell some Toby about this
Therefore, Toby either knew I was Basilisk or my IP which proves he’s VC
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Ok, I need that site for my game so I’ve made a forum here
http://theostudio.forumotion.co.uk/
It’s phpbb like VC’s and I’ve already created a few topics, k?
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This is all rather interesting. I knew something wasn’t right. There was too much policing when real discussions tried to be developed. Thanks for the info.
Also, does anyone remember the mod MP3? Last I saw he said some pretty heavy info to me. Is he around anymore?
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MP3 left, I believe when the original ‘Toby’ happened
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Oh ok. Are you guys sure he left? He was a couple with her right? I think there’s something missing here. I want to know what he knows about all this. Anyone have his contact info? Thnx.
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http://newworldorder.dyndns-web.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=761&start=120
Daciple seems to be saying something completely different in those 3-4 pages
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2910&start=30
Anyone else notice theatreofdreams posts are missing?
He was an old member with good info, definitely not Toby
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That is interesting…wonder if he is in happy hour
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Also Daciple/Real whatever, I have an account there. memeidesu would kill for me fake postings
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I’ve been watching that site for about a year, and I could right off something wasn’t meshing. The source material he continuously quotes is Deliverance Christan propaganda which ANY educated person can see right through.
He encourages and inflames the fundamentalist Christian narrative/agenda on these conspiracy theories, and any other perspective that strays too far gets slammed down on.
Yet, he’s an occultist who can’t hid his enthusiasm for the material, and while I’m certain he’s being deceitful, I don’t think he’s stupid enough to believe the garbage he’s Christian-baiting with.
I’m not into the conspiracy theories you’re throwing around about him being “disinfo illuminati agent”, he’s just operating on greed. He’s milking the Christians for ratings, yet pulling in the occultists with his lovingly cataloged and republished Occult material. Fanatical Christians aren’t going to read Crowley, let alone put effort into promoting it.
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Yup
Yes
MmHmm and
Indeed
Bang on
As one other person above dutifully noted, the Fundie element there are absolutely necessary because they are the antithesis for his synthesis of occult propaganda. He baits them to provide more food for debate which keep people busy on the site and making him money through the ads rotating there.
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I didn’t have to read your while article. I just reached the part where you mentioned how they (vc) censor comments. It happened to me MANY times.
Also if you are sharp enough you csn notice a vast difference in tone and style across different articles..maybe there was a VC, but I can almost swear he has either sold out or been wiped out and replaced. Not by a person either, rather two or more people. A disinfo team.
Readers from about 2 years back may recall contributing writers like ustad jee… where are they now?
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Pingback: Citoyen vigilant | Desillusions
I also have to add that I don’t buy his excuse of banner ads being randomly placed on his page. I’ve looked at his system, and the banner ads are on HIS server. They’re not being served up via a 3rd party. Here’s an example:
There’s nothing wrong with making money, but it should be noted that his banner ads are consistently “pro-illuminati”.
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http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/pagead/imgad?id=CNm7zsyjsozoFRDYBRhaMgj6B11iv4nE9g
You are absolutely right. These ads are Google ones but that one is not. I’m wondering, did he write that? Think about it, the only images on his server are those he wrote
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One, you’d have to be stupid to start buying information that’s provided for FREE on his website, second of all, I too have noticed his statements against the Catholic Church. A bit of research would show that Freemasonry is in STRICT opposition to the Church.
As a matter of fact, any Catholic that joins in and engages in Freemasonry can be excommunicated.
Freemasonry is just a PART of the world’s obsession with New Age idealogies.
Humanistic and Jungian psychologies have crept their way into all sectors, including parishes and schools, religious and secular alike.
Despite the fact that most of his articles are well written and loaded with useful information, I can’t get past the notion that VC has a negative view of Dualism, the separation between Good and Evil. Many people have accepted their evil side as a part of their human nature, when God intended for all us to make an absolute choice and leave behind our sins in order to follow Him, instead of coming up with our own set of morals, making ourselves gods in the process…
Just thought I’d let you know.
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Hey IZZY-CHAN13,
Absolutely well put:
“Many people have accepted their evil side as a part of their human nature, when God intended for all us to make an absolute choice and leave behind our sins in order to follow Him, instead of coming up with our own set of morals, making ourselves gods in the process…”
We can all unmask the occult deceivers with only a hand full of criterias, “moral relativism” and “we becoming Gods” ourselves being two of them!
God bless, Chaukee
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Same to you, and Happy New Year! =]
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I’m a little late on my response here. But I guess I need to defend myself.
Nika, along with a few others on the boards, sent me money via Paypal because my husband was put in jail for possession. At the time, I was barely making rent. I posted a thread asking what I could do for money and asking what my legal options were. A few people asked me to give my Paypal and after talking to my husband, I agreed to it. I still feel guilty for that, because I am never one for charity. In any case, it helped quite a bit. I paid off the main ticket (which was crucial so my husband Sean wouldn’t get thrown in jail again and possibly lose his job).
I did NOT spend it on weed. I smoke probably once a week at the most. I have sciatica and it helps relieve my pain, though I occasionally smoke recreationally. I have no idea why there is a rumor going around that I spent it on weed. There was a period of time where I was really depressed (when the TOC, VC, and TF issue was going on) and I was smoking pretty much everyday. Now I have been a lot healthier and am not longer depressed. As I stated before, I rarely smoke.
There were ongoing jokes about me being a pothead because, as I mentioned, there was a month or two where I was getting high everyday to deal with my depression. If Nika really believes that is what I spent my money on, then she is sorely mistaken. I rarely even pay for the weed I get now.
In any case.. the whole reason Nika and I fell out is there was a lot of drama that had nothing to do with the money she gave me. She basically said something about another member in the TOC chatrooms.. there were two others in the room in addition to me, Andy, and Nika, and one of those 2 people went and told Rae (the girl who Nika spoke badly about) what was said. Nika assumed it was me and went on a shitstorm telling others (mainly Debi) that I was mentally unstable, a scammer, slut, etc. I still have the chat log. She also bad-mouthed a few other people as well. I was pissed, of course, and even though Nika apologized once she realized I hadn’t actually told Rae what was said, I couldn’t forgive her.
We talked for awhile trying to figure out a solution. She brought up the money thing- nothing in relation to pot- and said that she felt betrayed because she gave me money and I was ready to drop her as a friend just from her comments. I offered to give her the $50 she gave me back, but she declined. The money thing shouldn’t be brought up at this point. If Nika wishes, she can contact me and I will still return her $50 as I am doing a lot better off at this point.
As with the whole thing with GS- I never showed anyone any pictures of him. I will admit that during the whole scenario that I (and many others) encouraged Nika to show them to new members of TOC. I never really put two and two together to realize that there is no way GS would have sent her the pictures unless she asked (and most likely sent pictures back to him). This was later confirmed to be true by a few people.
I feel horrible for how I talked about GS to the other members of TOC. He really is a great guy and it pisses me off that Nika misrepresented him like that. It was very manipulative of her (but that shouldn’t surprise anyone).
I won’t comment on Toby or VC because there is nothing I can say that is going to change anyone’s mind. I’m just here to defend myself.. it’s ridiculous how rumors fly around the internet. For those who enjoy playing telephone and twisting what people tell you to make the story more interesting/dramatic, grow up.
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You mean to say that all the nonsense above about naked pics is actually true?????
I can’t believe that, you must mean something else
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Just forget everything I said, except for defending myself. I don’t know what went on with Nika and GS because I haven’t heard it from either of them. So many rumors have been spread lately that I cannot believe the few people that told me. I was angry when I wrote the above, which I am sure was the goal of a certain someone.
Disregard what I’ve said. I’ve talked to Nika and we’re cool now. So much has changed that everything pretty much seems trivial. That isn’t the focus anyway. Just stay vigilant, guys.
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Sure. I just asked you to explain since otherwise, the others would jump at that line
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Belligerent, your husband was put in jail for possession? Are you one of the funamentalists on the VC website too? Oh my, how the people of God have fallen.
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No, I’m not a fundie, but I am a believer. I see nothing wrong with smoking marijuana in moderation. Smoking isn’t prohibited in the Bible, and at least it doesn’t kill you like alcohol does.
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If you see nothing wrong with smoking DOPE in moderation, then you deserve to have the problems you have because you are causing them yourself.
Just my 2cents, get angry if you want but that won’t solve your problems either.
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LOL @ Detonator/Toby/Dantalion thinking that would get me angry. xD The ignorant will remain ignorant. There are people that wish me dead because I enjoy smoking a blunt. I just roll my eyes at the ignorance and move on. Your opinion has no effect on how I perceive myself or live my life.
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Haha yep, basically she confirmed it was all true and she saw Grey Insanity’s pickle and that Nika sent him nudies of herself. That’s probably why they’re both not ratting each other out anymore because of threats that they’ll show the others nudes. Whitney, you also have no control over your mouth, are stupid and I can’t believe how utterly boring your life must be to play word games on VC, smoking pot, bailing your husband (loser) out of jail because he’s possessing drugs and then legitimizing and rationalizing it away (like good stupid drug heads typically do) by saying the Bible doesn’t comdemn smoking?
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
So because it doesn’t say “high” or “weed” you ignore the fact that “drunkeness” is obviously referring to an altered state of mind, which is what pot does to you?
Oh, it’s not bad for you? Stupid girl. It’s a carcinogen. Anything that is hot for your lungs are not good for you, dummy.
lol @ you thinking I’m the VC boogey man, must be the weed smoking. Yeah, it not only makes you stupid but paranoid. Boo…don’t look out the window “hunny” 😉
The Lochness Monster is real Whitney, don’t ever let the Illuminati convince you that it is not. It’s true. It really really is. Smoke a joint and meditate on that and you’ll see me, I mean him. 🙂
Oh and believe my opinion has an effect just like anyone who has an opinion of you has an effect. Why? Because you are weak minded and you turn to dope to escape your boring pathetic life. All pot heads and drug addicted, or porn addicted losers do, like the majority of the fundies have said their vices are. Guess why? They have no inner peace. Neither do you!
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Of course you wouldn’t see any problem with smoking weed in moderation. No stoner thinks that smoking weed in moderation is a problem. Show me one who believes it is, and I’ll show you a stoner who’s starting to wake up. Staying stoned is part of the elite’s agenda for you, and you don’t even realize it. That’s why they called it dope and stoned, because you are ineffectual and can’t fight your way, let alone think your way out of a wet paper bag. Herding stoners like you will be easy, and it already is. Drugs, being stoned, staying hypnotized has always been part of the agenda. Just because you get wild hallucinations while stoned, you think it give you insight. The reality of it is that it keeps you in chains that you can’t even perceive.
Do what you want though, it’s your life to waste.
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Okay “Detonator,” you win I suppose. Coming up with hundreds of names and writing in the exact same style in each one to try to bait people. Do you seriously have no life?
“Anything that is hot for your lungs are not good for you, dummy.”
You don’t have to smoke it, my dear Toby.
“Because you are weak minded and you turn to dope to escape your boring pathetic life.”
I’m not sure what you think I do, but I rarely smoke marijuana, but if you’d like to believe that in your small mind, then go ahead.
“Just because you get wild hallucinations while stoned”
LOL!! You obviously have no idea what marijuana is. It is considered a mild hallucinogen but it does not cause hallucinations whatsoever. Do more research, then comment about it, hun.
A-Team, Detonator, Toby.. whoever the heck you guys are. Good job. You’re very entertaining.
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Whitney, I hate to disappoint you but I’m not Toby or connected to him. Don’t believe me if it makes you feel better. The only thing you’ve done here is make yourself look foolish though. You come to “defend” yourself, ignore almost every pertinent fact you ask for and do nothing but “troll” yourself, and the best part is you said you were done, but impulsively come back to tell us more private details of your life in some attempt to “clear your name” and you think the joke is on us because you can repeat that anyone who responds to you is Toby, and that has nothing to do with the effects of using a hallucinogen, mild or otherwise?
I do have pity for you. A married woman who admits to having psychological issues, turning to weed even after her husband had been jailed for possession, commenting on forum wars and seeing “Toby Toby’s” everywhere.
Imagine for a moment that I wasn’t Toby. What would your answer to me be?
Like weed, Toby has proven a good escape for you when you’re unable to reason like a sane human.
Oh, I don’t write like Detonator or the others. I write much better 😉
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Smoking pot will increase your depression by the way. It won’t help you deal with the underlying issues leading to it. Spending time online on forum-drama wars as a Jedi-Warrior is just escapism too. I’ve never commented on the VC website because the conversations there are just people shouting at each other when they’re not playing social games and wasting time in their lives and leads to nothing productive. I’ve come across the site doing my own research and I agree with the original blog article and most of the people commenting that VC is helping to spread symbolism of the elite in order to slowly condition you young pot heads and conspiracy theorists to a very sophisticated control mechanism.
Your depression is because you are out of control and need any escapism to deal with it. You have sciatica? Go see a personal trainer to help strengthen your abdominals instead of smoking carcinogenic devil’s weed that is causing your brain to rot further.
Truth hurts.
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Of course it won’t cure depression, and because I was using marijuana to “cope” with my depression rather than actually dealing with the real issues in my life, it didn’t help. Now that I’ve addressed the problems in my life and dealt with my depression, I do not use marijuana that way.
Since VC reopened, I have made 600 posts in about 7 months, which isn’t much. I don’t participate in drama on VC.. everything posted above happened about a year ago and has been resolved. I was just lashing out because of real life issues. In any case, that’s great those are your beliefs.. you know, if you aren’t Dantalion/Toby commenting on every single one of these (and if that is the case.. get a life). I doubt spending 10 minutes every few days on VC is going to “condition” me to anything.
I wouldn’t say I’m “out of control.” Besides the fact that I’m not even depressed.. but thank you for your assessment. I actually finished P90X so I rarely hurt from my sciatica. BTW sciatica is caused by a slipped disc and really has nothing to do with your abdominals- core, yes (which includes the back). I am perfectly fine now, but at the time I had no idea what was causing my leg to hurt.. only that smoking made the pain go away. Weed is carcinogenic only if you smoke it (which is true for most substances). I vape. What about alcohol? Drinking it is fine (in moderation) according to the Bible, yet it actually kills people unlike marijuana. And weed doesn’t make your brain rot. If you have proof of this rather than just your own fundie opinion, then maybe I would listen.
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Do a medline search dummy. Weed has a lot of negative effects, but the counter culture that has brainwashed you gives you all sorts of arguments against that because you like the escapism and good feelings (short-term) that if gives you and the memory loss that it provides you afterwards feels good too so you can ignore your real life problems that make you turn towards escapism.
Am I Toby?
I prefer Big Foot actually, because you know what they say about people with big feet :)) Grey Sanity wouldn’t know from experience btw.
hahahahahahahahaha
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This is a picture of me Big Foot Toby!
http://tinyurl.com/7p79vmj
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Whitney you’re talking shit. On the Bible not condeming drinking for one:
Leviticus 10:9
“Drink no wine or strong drink, you or your sons with you, when you go into the tent of meeting, lest you die. It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations.
It doesn’t say just have one glass or in moderation, it say NO wine or strong drink
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
Of course you will have an answer for this, to justify your drug riddled behaviors.
Slipped discs have nothing to do with weak core/abdominals?
haha
“I am perfectly fine now”
So your excuse, rationalization, that you smoked weed to cure your back pain is just bullshit then? Yes, I thought so. You are, like we’ve all been saying, just trying to escape a boring life which you yourself created. You’re a hypocrite and dumb.
“only that smoking made the pain go away. Weed is carcinogenic only if you smoke it (which is true for most substances)”
Lol weed is carcinogenic only if you smoke it, follows your admission that you were smoking it. So you just admitted it was harmful for you.
Stupid grrrl.
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How am I a fundie, lol. Are you high again?
1 – Dose-related neurocognitive effects of marijuana use
K.I. Bolla, PhD; K. Brown, MPH; D. Eldreth, BA; K. Tate, BA; and J.L. Cadet, MD
“Abstract—Background: Although about 7 million people in the US population use marijuana at least weekly, there is a paucity of scientific data on persistent neurocognitive effects of marijuana use. Objective: To determine if neurocognitive deficits persist in 28-day abstinent marijuana users and if these deficits are dose-related to the number of marijuana joints smoked per week. Methods: A battery of neurocognitive tests was given to 28-day abstinent marijuana abusers. Results: As joints smoked per week increased, performance decreased on tests measuring memory,
executive functioning, psychomotor speed, and manual dexterity. When dividing the group into light, middle, and heavy user groups, the heavy group performed significantly below the light group on 5 of 35 measures and the size of the effect ranged from 3.00 to 4.20 SD units. Duration of use had little effect on neurocognitive performance. Conclusions: Use of marijuana is associated with persistent decrements in neurocognitive performance even after 28 days of abstinence. It is unclear if these decrements will resolve with continued abstinence or become progressively worse with continued heavy marijuana use.”
“It’s easy to think that there are no negative effects of marijuana because it’s widely used and turned to as a vehicle for relaxation despite it’s illegality. Pot addiction (marijuana, weeds and others) is considered by many to create no problems for the body. However, this isn’t the case and it can be subtle in how it effects you.”
http://www.drug-and-alcohol-rehab-info.com/addiction/index.php/negative-effects-of-marijuana/
In terms of withdrawal from smoking pot. This usually manifests in the form of sleep disturbance, irritability, anxiety and anger. The drug also stays in the body of the user for about 30 days.
The best bet is to learn how to process problems and sit with dark emotions so you learn the skills of not freaking out when things are not going your way or are not smooth in life. This makes you a master of situations and not drug-dependent.
read some of the comments at the link above and maybe you’ll start to grow up too
Clive on August 5th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
It is easy to stay a pothead and not grow up. Most people would rather listen to music, get high and hang out then deal with responsibilities. For me the best home remedy drug detox was to have a kid. Seeing my kid’s smile made me ashamed of my lifestyle.
Ross on August 16th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
I have to admit my memory does seem a bit worse due to college days and through my 20s smoking pot a lot. It did get me through hard times but I think there are better methods now instead of using marajuana for stress relief.
EFFECTS OF HABITUAL MARIJUANA USE ON THE IMMUNE SYSTEM
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99/marijuana/Health_1.html
The most potent argument against the use of marijuana to treat medical disorders is that marijuana may cause the acceleration or aggravation of the very disorders it is being used to treat.
Smoking marijuana regularly (a joint a day) can damage the cells in the bronchial passages which protect the body against inhaled microorganisms and decrease the ability of the immune cells in the lungs to fight off fungi, bacteria, and tumor cells. For patients with already weakened immune systems, this means an increase in the possibility of dangerous pulmonary infections, including pneumonia, which often proves fatal in AIDS patients.
Studies further suggest that marijuana is a general “immunosuppressant” whose degenerative influence extends beyond the respiratory system. Regular smoking has been shown to materially affect the overall ability of the smokers body to defend itself against infection by weakening various natural immune mechanisms, including macrophages (a.k.a. “killer cells”) and the all-important T-cells. Obviously, this suggests the conclusion, which is well-supported by scientific studies, that the use of marijuana as a medical therapy can and does have a very serious negative effect on patients with pre-existing immune deficits resulting from AIDS, organ transplantation, or cancer chemotherapy, the very conditions for which marijuana has most often been touted and suggested as a treatment. It has also been shown that marijuana use can accelerate the progression of HIV to full-blown AIDS and increase the occurrence of infections and Kaposis sarcoma. In addition, patients with weak immune systems will be even less able to defend themselves against the various respiratory cancers and conditions to which consistent marijuana use has been linked, and which are discussed briefly under “Respiratory Illnesses.”
In conclusion, it seems that the potential dangers presented by the medical use of marijuana may actually contribute to the dangers of the diseases which it would be used to combat. Therefore, I suggest that marijuana should not be permitted as a therapy, at least until a good deal more conclusive research has been completed concerning its debilitating effect on the immune system.”
In the short term, marijuana use impairs perception, judgment, thinking, memory, and learning; memory defects may persist six weeks after last use. Mental disorders connected with marijuana use merit their own category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) IV, published by the American Psychiatric Association. These include Cannabis Intoxication (consisting of impaired motor coordination, anxiety, impaired judgment, sensation of slowed time, social withdrawal, and often includes perceptual disturbances; Cannabis Intoxication Delirium (memory deficit, disorientation); Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Delusions; Cannabis Induced Psychotic Disorder, Hallucinations; and Cannabis Induced Anxiety Disorder.
In addition, marijuana use has many indirect effects on health. Its effect on coordination, perception, and judgment means that it causes a number of accidents, vehicular and otherwise.
For further information, you may find the following sites helpful:
* http://www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/reality/updatejl.html, for information on links between marijuana use and mental health risks.
* http://www.sarnia.com/GROUPS/ANTIDRUG/mrr/21.96.10.html, for more information on the indirect effects of marijuana on health
* http://www.adf.org.au/drughit, the Australian Drug Foundations website
* http://marijuananews.com/a_safe_ high_.htm, a reprint of New Science magazines “Marijuana Special Report: A Safe High?” with commentary
* http://marijuananews.com/claim_four.htm, an article about the similarity of long-term marijuana uses effect on the brain to that of “hard” drugs, with commentary
* http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/publications/iprc/misc/smokescreen.html, for general information on the health risks of marijuana.
* http://www.health.org, the homepage of the National Clearinghouse on Alcohol and Drug Information, for general information on marijuana.
I’ve veered off topic so I won’t keep presenting facts to you on this matter because I suspect your mind is made up and you may be impulsive (like many pot heads are) and continue to take this topic off the rails by defending your drug use. This blog topic is not about the negative effects of marijuana anyhow, so If it pleases you to smoke weed and believe in fairy tales like a Vigilant Citizen savior of the World and his nemesis Toby, then so be it. Back down the rabbit hole for you.
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“Of course it won’t cure depression”
You must have a marijuana induced perception impairment because I never said that smoking pot would not cure your depression, but rather that it would increase it in the long term.
“I was using marijuana to “cope” with my depression rather than actually dealing with the real issues in my life.”
No doubt. That was obvious!
“Besides the fact that I’m not even depressed…”
So you were depressed, but smoking weed absolved it for you then. Funny how beliefs come out when someone has no filter in their mind to stop them from saying the obvious.
“I was just lashing out because of real life issues. In any case, that’s great those are your beliefs.. you know, if you aren’t Dantalion/Toby commenting on every single one of these (and if that is the case.. get a life). ”
I can’t comment for anyone else but I can reassure you that I am not Toby or Dantalion or Chaukeedaar or anyone else that owns a special spot in your mind.
You VC groupies all have a curious fixation with whomever it was that is now the infamous Toby. If he didn’t own you in some bizarre, sinister and ultimately ridiculous forum drama that you were all involved with, you should ask yourself why you are so obsessed and emotionally attached to him.
Maybe that’s your lesson though? Maybe you need to learn how to not be so emotionally reactive? I have news for you, if you have a need to use marijuana, recreationally to cope with your mental tension, then you really are out of control and impulsive and that is actually a fact since you felt the need to “defend” yourself in your first comment here which is a clear cut indication that you are impulsive. You do know that in your opening statement you basically confirmed many of the rumors being tossed around in this place though, right?
That you take all the forum drama that occurred there so seriously indicates that you don’t have much going on in your life. I hope that changes for you one day.
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“Weed has a lot of negative effects,”
Well lucky for you, it’s illegal. I’m not sure what you’re trying to do. You really care about me so much that you want me to do what’s best? You’re so sweet! 🙂
“Slipped discs have nothing to do with weak core/abdominals?”
I said core, mainly back. The core includes your abdominals, but the focus on overcoming a slipped disc is really the back. I got in a car accident (a woman hit me from behind at a red light going 50) which is why I have sciatica in the first place.
“So your excuse, rationalization, that you smoked weed to cure your back pain is just bullshit then?”
I never said it “cured” my back pain. I said it helped me deal with it. Once I figured out what it was (sciatica) and got my life together, I made the changes in my life (better anti-inflammatory diet, exercising 1-3 hours a day, and taking the proper supplements), the pain truly went away.
“Lol weed is carcinogenic only if you smoke it, follows your admission that you were smoking it. So you just admitted it was harmful for you.”
I smoked for awhile, now I vape. There has yet to be a case of someone who got lung cancer when smoking purely marijuana- only those who smoke cigarettes and weed. In any case, I prefer to keep my lungs in tip-top shape.
I love how you say I’m the one who is getting worked up, when I have a perfectly civil conversation with you, even when you call me names (very mature, by the way). Oh Toby, I’ve missed you so much!
“This blog topic is not about the negative effects of marijuana anyhow,”
Exactly what I was thinking. Thank you for your post. I have decided I will never touch marijuana again. Thanks for changing my life!
“So you were depressed, but smoking weed absolved it for you then. Funny how beliefs come out when someone has no filter in their mind to stop them from saying the obvious.”
No. Exercise and proper diet changed my depression. It had nothing to do with marijuana.
“owns a special spot in your mind” “you should ask yourself why you are so obsessed and emotionally attached to him”
Oh how you wish this were true, my dear Tobartan.
” I have news for you, if you have a need to use marijuana, recreationally to cope with your mental tension”
Doing any kind of mind-altering drug while you’re upset is stupid. That is how people get addicted (psychologically). When I am upset, I go for a run or lift. Natural endorphins actually make me feel better rather than just forgetting my problems whilst I’m high. I use marijuana when I am happy now, now depressed. I believe I’ve stated this many times, but it’s nice to see we agree on something!
“You do know that in your opening statement you basically confirmed many of the rumors being tossed around in this place though, right?”
The fact that such rumors exist is extremely laughable. If I’m to be known as the pothead on VC, then so be it.
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“Lucky for you it’s illegal”
Whitney/Belligerent, that’s a very interesting point. Like most infants who are told “NOT” to do something, the very thing they proceed to do is what they were told NOT to do.
Keeping weed illegal helps to keep it popular. 😉 and so that infantile reasoning like yours keeps attracted to it.
It’s not so much about me caring about you than it is about me telling the truth about a certain subject. If that makes me Toby, then I’m all for it.
The accusation as such, just shows how muddled your pot inflicted mind really is.
The casual reader will note how you glossed over all the “facts” that you previously asked me to present on weeds negative effects, just like a good pot head typically does.
“Slipped discs have nothing to do with weak core/abdominals?”
“I said core, mainly back. The core includes your abdominals, but the focus on overcoming a slipped disc is really the back. ”
Core refers to your spine, where all your nerves exit.
“I smoked for awhile, now I vape.”
So using a hallucinogenic is still your preferred means of dealing with issues in your life?
” There has yet to be a case of someone who got lung cancer when smoking purely marijuana- ”
lolololol
Typical Pot Head delusional thinking. Why do you call your local cancer agency and ask them about statistics, or again, do a basic and free medline search using the magical google to clear this misconception.
” In any case, I prefer to keep my lungs in tip-top shape.”
Yes, after you smoked weed for however long that you did. You’d rather live a life of fantasy through hallucinogenic effects of weed rather than a pure and clean one. We get it.
“I love how you say I’m the one who is getting worked up”
I didn’t say it, you did sweetie 😉
“Just forget everything I said, except for defending myself… I was angry when I wrote the above”
Furthermore, “defending” yourself on a blog is proof you are impulsive.
“Oh how you wish this were true, my dear Tobartan.”
I wish I was your friend Toby, then I could really pat myself on the back for provoking you to respond.
“You do know that in your opening statement you basically confirmed many of the rumors being tossed around in this place though, right?”
“The fact that such rumors exist is extremely laughable. If I’m to be known as the pothead on VC, then so be it.”
I was talking about you confirming the rumor that nude pictures were circulating of people who were in the inner core of the original VC and how it was also somehow responsible for the board reset. Until you came and confirmed it, per the OP on the subject, it was just a rumor. Now everyone knows it’s fact.
Way to keep “sharp” there Whitney, lol. Go “vape” a bit more, I’m sure it’s going to help you think better next time, lol.
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About Katarazyna or should I say, the most deceptive person I’ve met.
However, I won’t give my conclusions.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9186
They say ‘truthseer’ but it’s an attempt to malign me. No, I want you to notice
Quote:
Also, that image has my IP address in it.
The image in question, found through Google Cache is
Draw your own conclusions.
Ask yourself, who’s IP address is in that picture?
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Whatever you are talking about, the thread has been silenced and censored as most have come to expect with Vigilant Citizen.
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Holy shit the time you people been wasting…
I come here to address the ”Toby Research Group.” You wanna think you got to know how my brain really ticks? What you bring to the table doesn’t reflect that. Half of it is still a lie, like me feeding Nika whispers to just draw her to TF and then slam her later. At that time yes, I enjoyed debating people because it was a good way I learned things and it continues to be so. Really has nothing to do with ego for me, I simply like the point blank exchange of opinions and what can be gained from it.
The farthest you all know of me is what I told you of my personal life at the time, and I feel damn betrayed now knowing who I spilled my heart out to at times saw me as a guinea pig.
If I’m an antithesis on VC, so be it. I know I have connected with certain people on that boards though, and the players of the antithesis of the past connected with me, and much good has come from it. As long as I get through to some then I am happy, for it is better to voice our beliefs than be silent because we’re worried on the possibilities on how it may be turned.
For the rest of you, continue your little circle jerk here if you wish but it is in vein. I don’t know if VC is disinfo or not but I have learned that putting this much time into proving something like this is a big waste. You all could be doing so much more to further your knowledge into much more pertinent things.
Hope you all had a good Christmas and are prepared for what this new year brings. Sure as hell doesn’t seem like it if you’re all still swooning over a petty issue such as this. God bless either way…
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Tweeterfist is your name, per your facebook profile really Logan Seibert? Out of curiosity I did a google search on your name and it’s not really pretty.
So you don’t care that you’re helping to enslave people with your little role on the VC forums? By no means am I suggesting it’s a massive role because there are thousands of scenario’s where sleepers like you are unwittingly supporting this agenda by playing antithesis. You have to really understand the hegelian dialectic and it’s sophisticated application to get it. Bascially it’s dependent on certain groups being completely oblivious to their support of the agenda, something that you and some of the other fundamentalists are perfectly demonstrating.
I’m can’t comment on any so called research because I have no idea what you’re talking about, but if you’re the same Tweeterfist that exists on the forums, the same one who it is claimed above helped to destroy them the first time and are now a moderator on there, then you should be able to draw some conclusions from that. Namely, your participation is absolutely necessary to get the synthesis the authors and writers and owners of that site are after.
You are one to talk about people discussing this issue here when you’re one of the main proponents “debating” Islam and other “apostate” religions, dooming and glooming all the way on the forums there on a daily basis. Circle jerk you say? No doubt about it!
You are a pawn Tweeterfist. Time to wake up.
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As I’ve said, it has been shown that my posts bring people to Christ on that forums. It was the ”antithesis” on those boards that brought ME to Christ. I fully address the issues of hegalian dialect and the externalization of the Mysteries with this in many of my posts, so many who read them know of the possibilities that can come out from the sides being debated, making the whole tactic defeated.
I am aware not every individual will pick up on this. Well, oh well. What am I to do, STOP shedding light on to people because that inadvertently benefits the enemy to some? How much more would mine and other’s silences do so?
I fully well understand the Hegalian Dialectic method. It was one of the first things I learned in regards to the NWO. The problem is the solution that they plan to offer out of this is, as I’ve said, something I continually address.
I will not say I aint an antithesis in regards, but anyone who actually pays attention to my posts for a decent enough time will not run into this issue because they will know better.
Yes I helped ”destroy” them and I indeed came to many conclusions of it, more than anyone here really knows because all you guys can do is put in your conjecture on the issue. I was in the thick of it staying up late talking to ”Toby” and others about how sinister VC is and how all of this was a ploy to get rid of the Christians. With time I realized that wasn’t the case and we were all being duped by external groups. This was proven.
This issue is petty compared to expelling information on spiritual matters and deception that will truly effect people’s lives. Doom and gloom? ” Where? There is a light at the end of the tunnel and I preach that to my heart’s content. =) People must be aware of the dangers of the elite however, in ALL regards.
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It’s words like these that prove to anyone with an earnest mind that you are completely dumbfounded and do not live in reality.
You believe that your time on a forum is better spent than acting like a true Christian should in your personal walk.
That “preaching” about the NWO, sharing you tube video’s and all that stuff is better than being a Christian who
– doesn’t defile himself by the profanity that comes out of his mouth
– respects the laws of God and does not defile his body with illicit substances
– respects the laws of God and does not have sex out of wedlock
– respects the laws of God and does not bear false witness
You actually really believe that posting articles on a forum, saves people, but are not even capable of saving yourself.
You have no clue about the Hegelian Dialectic. You believe you understand it cognitively, but your actions prove otherwise.
“The problem is the solution that they plan to offer out of this is, as I’ve said, something I continually address. ”
Without your continued opposition to the NWO, it could not come about and no solution could be offered. YOUR PARTICIPATION IN OPPOSING AND SPREADING THE VERY IDEA of the NWO helps it grow. You don’t understand do you? You are spreading memes.
You remain unaware and unconscious to this face because you are asleep. Without any diabolical and overt violent programming, you have been conditioned to be a sleeper agent.
Your participation is necessary.
You’re still plugged into the system.
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“I was in the thick of it staying up late talking to ”Toby” and others about how sinister VC is and how all of this was a ploy to get rid of the Christians. With time I realized that wasn’t the case and we were all being duped by external groups. This was proven.”
Why don’t you share some of this “proof” then, instead of talking about it. Otherwise all you’re doing is spreading half truths and rumors all based on conjecture. Oh wait, you like to use that word, don’t you?
“because all you guys can do is put in your conjecture on the issue.”
Show us the proof, otherwise all I see is you doing the same thing you’re accusing everyone else here of doing, which makes you the Pot calling the Kettle Black. Wooosh, I hear that one going over your head.
“Yes I helped ”destroy” them”
So you admit that you were responsible, or one of the responsible parties for causing the VC website to be reset the first time, and all you do is blame this “Toby” or some “group” for everything?
Now you are back there (VC) as a moderator, of all things? You don’t see the obvious discrepancy in that? Isn’t it the enemy of your enemy type of reaction you’re falling into?
Those of us with our eyes wide open can see the wheels that are turning in your head without having to know anything truly personal about it. It’s all about pattern recognition. You’re going through life half asleep, or fully asleep because you are unaware of yourself and what motivates you or keeps you ticking and because of that you contribute to the very thing that YOU YOURSELF are trying to warn people about.
I bet that goes over your head too.
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Wow twitterfoot is it appropriate to say “holy shit” & “hell” in your writing, being Christian? Oh and isn’t it up to God to judge? The time we are spending/wasting, ha, how much time are you spending here? How much time do you spend on VC? Your hypocrisy is great fodder for comedy, keep it up.
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I am free to swear, that is no sin although it may come off brash. The faith itself does to many at times though. 😉
I’m spending very little time here, and on VC I’m actually learning about subjects very pertinent to the NWO as well as giving information on it.
I played this ”Let’s connect the dots and expose VC as a disinfo agent” already and it was a big waste of time imo. But have your fun, I won’t stop you.
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Tweeterfist proclaims for all to read, “I am free to swear, that is no sin although it may come off brash.”
So then you’re just telling us that you are a poor example of what a Christian is told to be, how to behave and ultimately just an ignorant Christian by title only? Then you wonder why most people do not like the term. It has less to do with what is going on in the media and more to do with how hypocritical you really are.
Matthew 15:11: “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”
Colosians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Ephesians 4:29, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths…”
Matthew 12:34-36: “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
2 Timothy 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
Ephesians 4:29 tells us, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.”
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Something for Tweeterfool to think about
“It is no use walking anywhere to preach unless our walking is our preaching. – St. Francis of Assisi “
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Oh, and how some of you are still thinking myself and others are using ”Toby” as a scapegoat when the damn collection of people going under this alias have been posting explicitly telling myself and all of you that THEY WERE TOBY is absolutely beyond me lol… what a gong show this is, hence why I just gave up even trying to reason with yáll and why you aint gonna get any more either
yáll
yáll
yáll
yáaaalllllll
=)
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Mmm I will admit some are ignorantly spouting off who is Toby or not. They really don’t know shit and just jumped on the bandwagon, kind ruined the whole credibility of it too… regardless, evidence is still there that Toby isn’t completely fabricated -_-
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“Mmm I will admit some are ignorantly spouting off who is Toby or not. They really don’t know shit and just jumped on the bandwagon, kind ruined the whole credibility of it too”
Kind of ruined the whole credibility of it too?
Wooops, was that a freudian slip? Maybe that guy that showed us all your drug doing days above is right and you have a hole in your consciousness from all that Meth.
So “Toby” was supposed to be credible, as in a boogey man puppet term for you guys to throw around so you can ban people who were on to you?
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“kind ruined the whole credibility of it too”
Woops, was that a freudian slip. So you mean that you guys really actually wanted people to believe in the boogie man after all. That the name is used to distort and slander those that you want to silence on the boards that aren’t towing your party line?
Yup sure sounds like it to me.
The user above that identified your meth problem is right, you have holes in your consciousness and little control over your mouth, or brain, which is why you’re so easily led astray.
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Mmm I will admit some are ignorantly spouting off who is Toby or not.
Ok, that would be the VC posters
They really don’t know shit and just jumped on the bandwagon
You’re talking as if it’s your bandwagon
kind ruined the whole credibility of it too…
It is. It your bandwagon. So you’re Toby?
regardless, evidence is still there that Toby isn’t completely fabricated -_-
So you admit he is fabricated to a lesser extent? You said this
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Me saying that the fact of Toby loses it’s credibility does NOT mean it’s fabricated or I am pushing it deceitfully. It means that it loses it’s credibility. Simple as that. You guys do understand the definition of that word, right?
Spin doctors much? lol This is what I mean. You guys are sitting here grabbing at ANYTHING to prove your points. The original article here is JUST that, hence why I came here to rebuke it. It is flimsy logic and I see this dumb stuff too much within the truther community. It’s this type of thinking that gives us a bad name and leads you to disinformation in the first place.
My palms be brittle I tell ya…
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Why do you keep saying “you guys” in one comment, then claiming that a great number of the different comments are from the same person?
Have you considered that maybe people can see how double minded you obviously are and are not afraid to call you on it?
“You guys are sitting here grabbing at ANYTHING to prove your points.”
Is that so? I see no difference than how a group of you guys at VC jump on anything or anyone who you think is a troll all being “Toby”? How is it you can see that behavior in others and not in yourself?
“The original article here is JUST that, hence why I came here to rebuke it.”
I love how Bible thumpers like yourself rebuke everyone and everything but their own degenerate behavior.
” It is flimsy logic and I see this dumb stuff too much within the truther community. ”
The “truther community” is an anomaly. None of you guys can see the nose in front of your own face for long enough to stop you from chasing the next conspiracy theory down a rabbit hole, or better yet, creating your own. You know, like how “Toby” is everywhere and everyone?
“It’s this type of thinking that gives us a bad name and leads you to disinformation in the first place.”
No, it’s stupid and flimsy stuff like calling yourself a “Conspiracy Analyst” and pretending the world was made in 10,000 years while high on maryjane that gives you lot a bad name.
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It’s an obvious disinfo method employed by you guys. Come on, post under Toby so we believe. EASY!
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So are you saying because someone posts here saying they are Toby then it must be true?
Good science there Logan.
**Shakes his head in bewilderment**
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Well many of you have believed the random things other random people have said lol, I don’t see why this would be different. Oh wait, because it doesn’t fit with what you wanna see.
This guy has also shown knowledge only Toby would have but I guess only a number of people would be able to tell this, and I doubt anyone of them are here.
So that whole subject is pointless I guess. I just find it funny and I’m sure the Toby INC do as well lol. You’re all so very profane on these issuess… all I can do is sit back and feel like a Rotchild while watching you talk out your butts I guess
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You’re saying that the person or persons above have shown “knowledge” only “Toby” would have? Care to clarify? What knowledge is that? Are you saying that this knowledge is not knowledge that YOU, or Henrik, or Daciple, or Vigilant Ciitizen, or Nika or any of the other people named above would have?
Don’t you see how easily you’re being led around in circles?
You are all responsible for whatever mess you got yourself in and have managed to absolve yourselves of that responsibility by making one person a scape goat, for whatever reason. It’s obvious to everyone else.
The clear cut and roundly obvious situation is that anytime something bad or negative goes down, in your mind, you blame one source without ever looking at yourself.
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lol @ Tweeterfool stating that many people here believe random things that other random people have said, when that’s what happens on the VC forums on a daily basis. Your head is shoved so far up VC’s arse the fumes are burning holes in your mind.
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BTW, you were going to prove I had alts?
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I don’t care about you or your alts dude lol
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so you are not going to provide proof of his “alts” like you earlier claimed. Like everyone else has been saying, you’re a liar and a shill.
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Any lawyers here?
Vigilant refuses to delete our comments, some of which contain links to our pictures.
Under the Privacy act, I believe that it is stated that information can be deleted on request. I have tried this route to no success. Do I have a case?
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I’m not a lawyer but I don’t think you have a case. It would be common courtesy for him to do so and that probably means it won’t happen.
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No, you got none. It’s at his discretion. Hey don’t feel bad, least people don’t have your Facebook lol. Waiting for the Jesuit Tactical Squad any time now.
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Tweet, I decided to see both sides. You are right slightly. However, I joined truthfiles and got that PM and also some justification in which he blames you all. I’ll post it in it’s entirety (Ok, so I didn’t post this earlier)
You may be here to collect information, as I said before but I’d like to clear up any doubts you may have. The others, Henrik and Tweet, have been going around to blogs and posting under my name. I left VC on my own, a point they won’t make, and they followed me. They’ve been maligning me from day 1. I’ll let you stay and collect whatever you want
___________________________________________________-
So who should I trust? I did what he asked me to and I’m banned, like he said I would be
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Who is he and what did he tell you to do? Toby on TF? Was this recent?
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I am on truthfiles. Registered as Basilisk.
A month before I was banned, Toby from TF contacted me. He told me to post specific things. I did so and was promptly banned
He also showed me software that he claims you and Henrik installed to track him and his IP
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And I have to go. I have a life, you know and can only spend so much time here. See ya, Logan
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Tweeterfist you are a Satanist obviously, we can see that by your facebook pictures that someone showed above. You are a disgrace. What kind of truly God fearing Christian starts any point off with “Holy Shit”? That’s a violation of one of your own ten commandments you shill.
On VC
I agree with some of the users above that say anything is possible because the Internet is the World Wide Wiretap. VC may the controlled opposition or part of an Internet ThinkTank. It could be a twig on the branch of a major corporation like Viacom or Interscope. Culture (including counterculture and opposition) is often handed down to us from the elite at the top. I doubt VC is grassroots opposition to the degeneracy and perverted pseudo-occult symbolism in the media.
Anyone who has good b.s. detectors and can observe differences in writing style/syntax can tell there is a team of contributors writing article to the Vigilant Citizen website. The authors on the blog, the one participating in the forum and the one responding to your emails are all different people. Personally I believe that Toby is one of their own creation. I also truly believe that the funadmentalist faction on the VC are absolutely necessary in creating an opposition and further synthesis to the ideas that he is promoting. You fundies are all unconsciously playing the game that they want at the VC and don’t even know it.
Wake up.
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Saying holy shit is against the Commandments, how? Sorry, how the SHIT? Better? =P
Yes, a Satanist who has scripture in his front picture, has all recent notes discussing spiritual matters from a Christian perspective, can be seen preaching Christ and other topics in many recent replies to statuses and in groups… totally bro. Hit the head on the nail.
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Wow, not only a weak Christian but a horribly misinformed one, or is being misinformed a part of being weak?
Regardless.
What is Holy is supposed to be of God. You are denigrating what is holy by associating it with feces.
Jesus taught in the Bible that when a man curses or uses profanity it is a sign of evil that was in that man’s heart. So as a man of the Bible, according to what you believe to be true of yourself, cursing even if in minimal ways is in violation of the belief system you claim for yourself.
Matthew 15:11: “Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”
Colosians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Ephesians 4:29, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths…”
So you are a hypocritical Christian by the words you use and the actions of defending them. That’s no surprise since NYOC proved you were racist and a druggie amongst other things.
Matthew 12:34-36: “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
2 Timothy 2:16 But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
Ephesians 4:29 tells us, “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.”
So I’ve used the Book that you keep referring to as your own instruction manual to show how you yourself are a failure in abiding by it.
Logan, have you had sex out of wedlock? If so, you are a hypocritical Christian. Logan have you and do you continue to do Drugs? If so, you are a hypocritical Christian. Logan do you engage in gossip and spread false rumors, or twist the truth and bear false witness? If so you are a hypocritical Christian.
Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Logan, you’ve done all of those and by your words and actions in this blog you prove to be easily provoked to anger and deceit,
Ecclesiastes 7:9 “Be not hasty in thy spirit to be angry: for anger resteth in the bosom of fools.”
so you should not be preaching to everyone else about going to hell or what is coming because if it really is coming and if what you believe to be true is true, you’ll be one of the ones in the group going to the lake of fire.
I see by your defiant attitude above, correction through the Holy Spirit is not possible for you at this point because one thing for sure is clear; and that is you are incapable of truly taking responsibility for your actions. Like most everyone else, you want someone else, or something else to blame.
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Maybe I should swear less, it is a force of habit I suppose. The way with which I’ve sworn was not so much out of anger or hate, it is simply conditioning on me. I don’t look too far into it because of that. Like it sounds a bit nasty because of social constructs but that’s it… ultimately you are right though and I should carry myself in a way that APPEARS as loving as I wish…
I was not a Christian when I embraced sex out of wedlock, and the few times after I repentend and steered clear since. I still smoke weed and drink in moderation but neither of these are things I worship or let heavily bring down my life and lead to sin… I, like just about every Christian, have work to do for sure but I know God reads my heart.
Yes, there is a tinge of anger here at some of you because of the fact people have my identity. That’s not something nice to know but it really is in part of my own stupidity. My alias was used before ever really getting into topics like this so I didnt think much of having my name linked with my Fbook. Actually totally forgot that was the case…
I do not preach hellfire on people, but I preach what is to come to benefit them. I may not be perfect but that does not mean I will not spread my knowledge out of caring.
I have taken the blame of which I am responsible already. The matters with Toby I say are not to take blame off me, it’;s simply the truth, but it’s hard to prove. I don’t expect anyone to believe it but whatever.
Your post was meant to slap me around a little. I thank you for that. You’ve done me great good here and I am in your favour. That scripture you posted really hit home. This will probably be my last post because really now all is vanity but just know THAT post right there you made actually got me thinking and I thank you again.
Peace and God bless you sir.
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“Maybe I should swear less, it is a force of habit I suppose. The way with which I’ve sworn was not so much out of anger or hate, it is simply conditioning on me.”
I hate to be the bearer of bad news pal, but there’s a lot more conditioning on you that you need to shed. God may know what’s in your heart, as he does with everyone really, but it doesn’t give you a free pass to spread stuff about others that you do not have complete proof of. I read you well enough to know that you’ve engaged in this sort of behavior and are guilty of these actions. I’ll prove my point below about having full facts before you let someone condition your mind.
I don’t look too far into it because of that. Like it sounds a bit nasty because of social constructs but that’s it… ultimately you are right though and I should carry myself in a way that APPEARS as loving as I wish…
“I still smoke weed and drink in moderation but neither of these are things I worship or let heavily bring down my life and lead to sin… ”
Smoking weed is a sin. It alters your brain chemistry, breaks down your critical thinking and heightens your imagination which gives demonic entities a free pass into your mind. Haven’t you ever wondered why smoking weed and listening to music seem to go hand in hand, and are promoted as good “bed buddies”. The weed makes you a more open receptacle for the messages in the music.
” I may not be perfect but that does not mean I will not spread my knowledge out of caring.”
No ones perfect, but before you come in here condemning everyone for feeling wronged by your leader Vigilant Citizen, you should take the time to put yourself in their shoes. You really do come across as how many of the users here have depicted you to be, someone who follows and does not lead.
“I have taken the blame of which I am responsible already. The matters with Toby I say are not to take blame off me, it’;s simply the truth, but it’s hard to prove. I don’t expect anyone to believe it but whatever.”
No I don’t believe you. Why? Because burden of proof is ON YOU. You talk liberally about people spreading half-truths but without proof of your own to back up anything you have said, you are unwittingly doing the exact same. Show some of this proof. I recall reading that you claim you created the other forum and then handed the “reigns” over to this Toby person. That means you had a larger responsibility in any of it than he did, as far as I can tell.
So you want people to believe that this Toby character is behind all of this. That he led you all astray, well that’s just you trying to absolve yourself of the blame entirely. That also begs the question of what exactly was so wrong in leaving one place for another, especially since you, or some of you, went back? I still don’t get how this Toby character is all of a sudden to blame for all the things that the many users on a dozen or so websites have issue with Vigilant for? To me it sounds like an easy scape goat.
From what it reads the issues you guys have with Toby are the same, if not worse, that the issues others (here and on the other websites posted) have with Vigilant Citizen. Defending Vigilant, then, is more than just slightly hypocritical of you. It’s a massive slap-in-the-face kind of hypocrisy that I hope get’s your attention. I can see no other reason for you doing so than you being somehow resentful for something that went down on the other forums, and then praising Vigilant citizen for the same behaviors only because at the moment his forum suits your selfish needs, not because you actually really and truly embrace the truth on these particular issues.
The way it stands from this end is that you have two choices, you either provide something substantial or admit that you were led astray and do the very thing that you’re accusing Chaukeedaar of doing and that’s just spouting off based on conjecture, because that is exactly how you read.
There’s a commandment about not bearing false witness on others. My guess, based on your actions, is that you have and are doing this.
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WHAT THE FUCK YOU GUYS HAVE WAYYYY TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS. And its easy to see people using the sammefwefeasfe oh well fuck this. VC is not a disinfo agent, hes simply a fear creator agent, along with that costume of banning anything he dislikes, specially if you try to expose him (SUSPICIOUS AS FUCK because normal people on the internet would engage in long ass dialogues trying to defend themselves like you guys do LOL)
Ohhh man the conspiracy world is fucked up.
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KTG, please change your writing style. This post reeks of you a 1000 miles off
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No truthseer,
If it was ktg there would have to be some reference to her tactless hyper-sexualization. Some how she cannot hold back on talking about her personal relations when she is on conspiracy sites…. For a mother, one would assume she would carry more class.
; )
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Hey The “A” Team,
Thanks a lot for your contributions, I really enjoyed reading!
Peace to you, Chaukee
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Thank you good sir and peace to you as well.
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I am a VC victim. I started calling him out last year when I noticed all the erased comments on the site. To make matters worse I was a christian kicked off of the message boards for representing us in a positive, knowledgeable light. If you ask me I was kicked off for being a Christian period !
The main agenda on that site is to destroy Christians ( something else I noticed early on that made me go hmmm). I had one of his minions moderators come at me sideways, i’m thinking nothing of it because i’m slaying him effortlessly with knowledge. He ( the professional moderator remind you) called me all kinds of names, derailed the subject…basically breaking all the rules while I broke none. Without notice I was banned lol. It’s funny now but at the time I was heated.
I knew something shady was going on & this make things a lot clearer. I also noticed they boot older people, but keep the kids 13-18 ( conditioning). Anyone older than that a fake troll will come along, start some mess then boom you are banned. Do not fall for those social & off topic post. Those are info gathering post. It has also turned into a place where children go to promote their favorite artist, & talk about the most irrelevant things. You can hardly find a good thread going on there now days…it’s so high school…NOT. More like middle school.
Yes I still visit & sometimes comment on his site but I don’t trust him at all. I go to converse with the people of our nation. All my comments are keep God first, screw the illuminati as far as reading up on them worried about signs & symbols, fear no one but God etc etc.
I have let him have it so many times. Why I continue to visit his site ? It’s to stay in the loops of things, but not like you think. I’m so over the whole illuminati free mason crap. It’s like Santa & the boogy man.
*exhales* glad to get that out because after the ban I couldn’t voice my frustration with him and his site.
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I, one of the biggest preachers of Christ there, am proof there is no agenda to get rid of the Christians. Actually the majority of religious posters are Christian. So I really dunno what your theory is founded on here other than your own misfortune. Maybe you were banned wrongfully, I dunno about the other mods sometimes tbh. I haven’t agreed with all their decisions but I just dont have time to monitor all that goes on…
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Well one of your gangsta boy’s Daciple doesn’t seem to believe the opposite is true:
“So a specific group of posters was targeted led off … only the Christians that adamantly rejected and opposed that ideology…” – Daciple
How stupid. You guys both admit that you were part of the team who helped lead people off the site, and now you guys were tricked into doing it covertly? This Jones Group MK Ultra team must be really trixy (visions of Golam from Lord of the Ring flashes in your mind, lol).
I thought you guys had the Holy Spirit of truth in you? Was he on vacation for those few months?
Goes to show how reliable your imagination is, doesn’t it?
So you know, maybe you guys can collaborate since you discuss all of what is said here on skype each evening, and come up with one story and stick to it. This would be so much better for your kooks. This way you won’t continue to come across as bumbling idiots just concocting whatever story seems to fit the shoe at any given time?
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I’m talking in the present tense. You’re quoting something from the past tense. Sense not made.
Yes we looked to bring Christians off that site for our own, though we didn’t care if they continued to post on VC or not. Then it came a possibility to us, much later after a bunch of bullshit, that we were duped into isolating Christians and making us all a target. Am I coming through clear to you?
Rest of what you have to say is just childish and dumb. Peace.
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Can you prove that any of that was true, about you being “targetted” and “duped”? How exactly were you duped into creating a forum, handing the reigns to someone else, then leaving on your own back to VC based on “a lot of bullshit”?
I still read as if you’re passing blame for something you, or some of the others had a direct responsibility in. Unless you’re saying that this Toby character held a gun to your head and made you do all of those things. How were you tricked into anything? You give up so much of your own power in doing so, you also are unconsciously communicating that you’re easy to trick which would beg the question, what else are you wrong about?
Hmmm, I bet that’s turning a few wheels right now.
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I originally found the VC site while I was reading articles on cracked.com…..weird how I would be directed to VC from a humor based website…as soon as I took in all the negative imagery and symbolism, I found that I was very paranoid and felt like I was being watched and or followed while I was in my own home or outside….It had a pretty negative effect on me and how I perceived society. It felt as if, the site and the author put additional fear and paranoia into my mind….I’ll admit, some of the material was pretty interesting, but at the same time I feel as if I exposed myself to something that I’m not sure I wanted to to be exposed to. I’m a christian and the majority of the imagery I saw gave me that gut feeling that I was exposing my mind to something evil and negative…Sometimes the images would startle and scare me as I scrolled down the page…It reminded me that you have to be careful to what you feel your mind and expose yourself to…Is there anyone else on here that had the same reaction/experience when they browed the VC site? I would hope their are other people that reacted or at least can relate to what I’m saying….
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Hey Ben,
Thanks for sharing your experience with VC – yes, I do also get that feeling of evil when looking at the pictures that are posted in those articles, be it symbols or people. I guess thats the occult message of all that masonic crap anyway, to attract other evil people that are blood- and power-thursty, or to pull in people on the edge of it.
I just read that self-defense thread of VC on his forum where “he” asks to show him the disinformation in his articles. Disinformation does not come only from what is said, but also, from what is not said, in his case especially his background and intentions behind his online “empire”.
So to come back to your observations, constantly showing the occult reality in the entertainment industry without offering positive solutions or hints is a deceptive technique and helps that dark forces to absorb our energy. There is a reason why God gave us the gift of sensing evil, it may be because the other side is VERY deceptive.
Peace to you, Chaukee
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Thank you for responding to my post. I’m glad that someone else, and probably a lot of you agree with me. I admit that I’m a rookie when it comes to this occult and dark symbolism stuff, but I am never fearful of it when I encounter it. It’s just some of the ghastly images I can tell are just meant to scare you for a second. But thats what the dark forces thrive on. Terror. Even if it’s for a second or two, the image is in your mind now. For me I find myself still thinking about some of the negative/evil looking pics on there even when I’m not at home. So I guess they’ve done their job. In the back of my mind I also kinda wondered about who or how many people contribute to that website. Up until I discovered VC, I’d never even heard of a Gnostic Christian. Being a christian I would figure I would of heard of it before. But I guess theirs many subdivisions or whatever you wanna call them. I know in my soul and heart that I should avoid exposing myself to evil images or anything else that screams satanic or of the occult nature. I mean I can handle most dark or evil sounding music or movies etc….but when I encounter this kind of stuff, it hits me in my soul or chest area with a completely different vibe and feeling….As a christian I know exactly what I’m looking at and dealing with. Even if your not religious, it still hits you the same way. Our interpretations will vary. I know in my heart that it’s basically satan or whatever evil entity trying to spread fear and paranoia and come into my house and life. So I know I should stay away, but at a tactical level, I feel as if I need to, “know thy enemy” and that I should learn about his patterns and tactics so I’ll be able to counter them in the future and I’ll know what to expect. Do you think this is a good idea? Have you ever thought of this or been asked this before? Any insight and advice will be appreciated.
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It looks like I’m not the only one who started feeling paranoid after seeing all of these symbols and images for a long period of time.
I remember that once I started getting into the symbols a little too deeply, I became very paranoid and threw out everything I owned that had the slightest symbol on it. If it had a Sun on it, it went out. An eye, Hello Kitty, an owl, a skull, a triangle, hearts, butterflies, swirls, stars, animal prints, the color pink, a black and white color scheme or even Disney characters? Those were also quickly thrown out. To me at the time all this stuff was evil and I would just about avoid all of it like the plague.
I even remember going into some Christian sites telling me that I was going straight to Hell just for wearing a Donald Duck t-shirt and that God didn’t like me because I happen to like that sun necklace that my mom gave to me when I was 10. It belonged to her when she was a teenager and she gave to me and told me to take good care of it. I remember I was going to throw it out a couple of months ago, but decided not to at the very last minute because I promised her I would keep it in good condition. You wouldn’t believe the number of things I threw out all because it had one little symbol on it.
I felt that if I owned this stuff, God would hate me even more and that if I threw it all out, I would go straight to heaven if I died because I thought I was liberating myself of the devil’s influences. The sad thing is that these symbols are everywhere, and by the time I through everything out, I basicaly owned nothing. I admit that I’m not a Christian, but I have been having this internal conflict in me for a while asking “Does God still like me even though I happen to like wearing that sun necklace or does God hate me because of that? What does God like me for? Have I been rejected by God? How do I improve myself so that God like me?” It’s almost like I was at war with God. I even admit that this question was also driving me towards suicide. Does anyone here know the answer?
Were sites like VC planting fear mongering into my mind to drive myself into suicide? That I don’t know.
As you can see, I left the VC forums about four weeks ago and haven’t commented on here for a while. I’m glad that I have pretty much recovered from the paranoia and went back to my hobbies, which I stopped doing when I really started to go berserk and knee deep into the paranoia. Although, I’m now starting to post in the Imaginary Dolls of the Seeing Eye forums, but I will only go on there for a short period of time just to make a quick informative post, or add something to a thread. Not like when I was on VC and would be on there posting things all day. I don’t have all the time in the world to waste like I used to. I admit that I’m not as paranoid about the symbols like I was about a month ago. I’m actually able to control myself nowdays.
Can you believe that I would even hide in fear over the slightest little symbol? It’s like I was becoming afraid of the symbols. I was even starting to develop a phobia of mirrors, dolls, glass, lions, owls, and eagles all because they are either occult symbols or used for mind control. I was never even afraid of thing like that until I started looking at those sites. Not to mention that looking at these symbols for long periods of time gives me severe headaches and I have to stop for a while.
No, I’m not looking to start any pointless drama (I’m long past that dribble.), but I’m just pondering another question about the agenda behind VC and other similar sites. It’s almost like as if they are intentionally making us afraid of these things, which therefore will stop us from living our own lives and end up eventually killing ourselves. Is it possible that these symbol sites are part of the elite’s plan in eugenics? That’s the question that I’m asking.
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““Does God still like me even though I happen to like wearing that sun necklace or does God hate me because of that? What does God like me for? Have I been rejected by God? How do I improve myself so that God like me?” It’s almost like I was at war with God. I even admit that this question was also driving me towards suicide. Does anyone here know the answer? ”
The whole tactical approach of the enemy is to instill fear. That’s the common denominator. It doesn’t matter which faction, even well intentioned “Christians” or other “religious” folk do, if it is instilling fear they’re helping the enemy.
No, God doesn’t hate you for wearing a necklace with the Sun on it. If you worship it as an inanimate object God won’t hate you either, but you yourself would be falling away from truth for worshiping something not divine at all.
“I’m glad that I have pretty much recovered from the paranoia and went back to my hobbies, which I stopped doing when I really started to go berserk and knee deep into the paranoia”
That’s the best decision you’ve made. You can see how awfully addicted, and proud, the members or moderators of that site are. They actually think they’re contributing value to the world, rather than wasting their time and life energy on nothing fruitful at all. It’s sad actually. Keep up with your hobbies, and don’t forget to get out in some fresh air regularly. Keeping healthy will make you the envy of the sorts of people and energies that would rather keep you in fear.
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I did not have that experience, but I did have similar accounts over 20 years ago when I realized not all is what it seemed to be and started to look for truth. Truth is a misused word. Everyone thinks they have it, or are looking for it or using it in their discussions. That’s one of the reasons the myth of relative morality has such a strong hold on people these days. That’s a different discussion though. The reason why you felt the way you did Ben, is because the VC website is part and partial about instilling fear in your and secondly about profit. Like a good news rag instilling fear is important part of marketing. The profit from that website comes from it’s ad rotations and now also from the book he sells. Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else. Maybe VC is only interested in spreading their truth in so far as it can fill their wallets? If that is the conclusion you come to, then you shouldn’t be a player in that game and move on.
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Hey Ben,
Sorry for the late answer. Your question surely deserves an answer:
“So I know I should stay away, but at a tactical level, I feel as if I need to, “know thy enemy” and that I should learn about his patterns and tactics so I’ll be able to counter them in the future and I’ll know what to expect. Do you think this is a good idea?”
We’ve discussed the topic in depth on a german blog. Having gone through rudimental traces of paranoia myself after I had a “incident” with an aetherical entity in my dream (that felt 100% real) I dived into VERY negative information on the web (reptilian demons and all that is told around the phenomenon). From my experience I can tell my golden rule in the spiritual warfare: BALANCE what you draw your attention to. First strengthen your faith and your connection to the positive forces – for me it his the highest God (in my personal adobted spiritual tradition called “Krishna”), Jesus Christ, and Srila Prabhupada, my “Guru” so to speak, among others. Only then start to study our enemy.
I now only dwelve into the dark truths out there if I feel that I’m positive enough to not fear them. Fear is the detector emotion! Lately I even tried to flip my emotions towards eval entities – instead of fear or anger I try to convince them to find their way back to their path towards God. Now this worked out really great so far, never had a fear attack since, and I thank God for that insight.
Namaste, Chaukee
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Sorry about the type-o…..I meant to say, “It reminded me that you have to be careful to what you feed your mind and expose yourself to…”
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Happy new year/ winter solstice!
Thought i would check up and see what has happened.
Just want to point out some obvious tactics of shilling and distraction.
1. Belligerent or whomever came over to ‘defend” herself. From who/what? It could be that I missed the comment where anyone said something about her specifically, but I don’t see it.
One of the most annoying tactics employed by the women shills of Vc are the “have sympathy for me as I drop tectonic bits of personal information into the convo”. It is a distraction. What relevancy of her husband being in jail and her receiving funds nd even the GS pics have to do with anything???
2. All of this religion talk: tactic. The illuminat care not if you are Hindu, Christian, Buddhist. Islam, etc. They work to enslave is all. Religion are the personal tools we arm ourselves with to fight. Some like swords , others prefer throwing stars.
Notice that whenever Vc is talked about on the internet all of a sudden a discussion jot based in fact, research, or speculation occurs. Someone always have to start qouting a scripture.
It is not like the politicians who role you up to argue about the rights of unborn babies while they kick your children out of school?
3.TWEET . I KNOW YOU DID NOT COME BACK UP IN HERE AND DIDN’T ANSWER ANY OF THE QUESTIONS. YOU THINK WE FORGOT?
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Thank you for pointing that out.
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“1. Belligerent or whomever came over to ‘defend” herself. From who/what? It could be that I missed the comment where anyone said something about her specifically, but I don’t see it.
One of the most annoying tactics employed by the women shills of Vc are the “have sympathy for me as I drop tectonic bits of personal information into the convo”. It is a distraction. What relevancy of her husband being in jail and her receiving funds nd even the GS pics have to do with anything???”
Either you are not the true femalepharoe or you’ve gotten a lot more bitter, because the two of us got along rather nicely on VC. I defended you quite a bit while you were posting.
This blog has over 900 comments. Rumors about the above were mentioned in the comments a few times, so I addressed them. (ctrl-f is your friend if you would like to see what was said). If you seriously think I’m a shill, I have to laugh.
I could care less if you people think that VC is a disinfo agent or not. If you would rather follow someone like Toby, then I will pray for you. It’s better to just go down your own path and discover truth for yourself.
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Your name was never mentioned. I did a Control+F now.
Pot’s bad for memory 😀
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Belligerent, not Whitney. Anyway, have fun trolling. I’m done. 🙂
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Same tactic as Katarazyna. I swear, if I didn’t know you, I’d say you were all the same. But really, you just can’t impersonate as messed up a personality as Kat and also a chaotic drug addict at the same time
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By the way, you and Laya have been PM’ing each other for 25 minutes
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Whitney/Belligerent, “It’s better to just go down your own path and discover truth for yourself.”
Indeed, while smoking, I mean “vaping” hallucinogens and seeing imaginary boogie men in all the shadows. You’re a shining example of truth.
You pot heads and “truthers” all share one very interesting characteristic; none of you can take responsibility for the shit that you bring upon yourselves. It’s always someone else’s fault.
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I have no idea what you’re talking about. I don’t see anyone “following Toby” are you really that feeble minded to think people are following some mythical creature named Toby?
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FP, I didn’t come back because I could care less at this point. I tried to help some people out, turns out they just tell me half truths, I don’t have the time to play heroes with people. Someone wants back on that site to reap from it (WHICH IS ALL THAT SHOULD BE DONE THERE) then they will. Simple as that.
And haha, yeah, the elite don’t care what religion you are hence why a huge portion of their war has been against the Bible and it’s teachings and a massive cultural enginnering project (Sexual revolution) was conducted and carried out by disciples of Crowley and Theosophy, the New Age.
Wanna talk disinformation, look no further than a mirror FP…
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A mirror with you in front? Sounds a lovely idea to see a disinfo agent
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@Tweeterfist: Oh please, do save it. Who has been telling you “half truths?” and where have you received the so-called “truths” from? You didn’t follow through on the “help” you offered to any of us, simple as that… and now you return actling like you’re so above and so “over” all of this.
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Well you are one to talk since most of what you put out are half truths based on whims of your own making?
Why haven’t you responded to the users above who had come pretty insightful questions about your conduct outside of here when it was obvious that you were just as responsible for whatever went down on the VC the first time around as you are now, innocently trying to play vicitm while blaming someone else for what you yourself did? How about the fine points that illuminate how shoddy your conspiracy muddled mind is when talking about evidence? Something about the world being only 10,000 years old comes to mind from the comments above. Not only is that not found in your Bible, but it is not even supported by Science, so you see by making a statement right there like that you totally invalidate yourself as someone who bases anything they say on “facts” and therefore are a complete double minded hypocrite when you claim to support what you write by facts.
I won’t bother going on and on because a few people above have easily unraveled you and your current behavior demonstrates you got nothing from it. So you stay pretty and safe in your own little bubble there Mr Seibert, the “ex satanist” and “ex drug user”.
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Tweeterfist,
“FP, I didn’t come back because I could care less at this point.”
You didn’t come back, but then you DID come back to defend VC? So you could care less about what exactly, because if anything it’s obvious you do care to defend VC which is evident in your words and your actions upon your return, hypocrite.
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Did I claim I wasn’t responsible for my part in bringing down VC in the past? It was an adverse effect, not my intentions at all, but anyone in that fiasco can tell you that it was absolutely riddled with external forces playing with people, mainly the former user RussianNika. ”Wontonman” was his name I believe, and later due to Toby’s actions and conferring with VC we found it very possible Toby’s whole goal was to stir up shit. We also connected him to a guy known as Dantalion Jones (Toby Jones) which is pertinent to all what happened but I aint getting too far into that.
I haven’t placed all the blame on external forces. Myself and many others just know it wasnt as black and white as we were all thinking at the time. That’s it.
Fine points against my thinking eh? I don’t even know who the hell said I said the Earth was 10,000 years old, I don’t remember saying that and you believe what others have to say pretty easily with no evidence. I give plausibility to it, and if you were aware of the huge flaws in carbon dating and other scientific methods around it it very much is possible.
I didn’t come back here to defend VC either, as you can obviously see. I came here to talk to Toby INC. No one unravelled anything and it’s funny you swallow it so easily. Talk about your disinformation firewall…
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“riddled with external forces” so then there was more than “one person” involved?
I wish you guys would pick one story and stick to it.
I’m still waiting for you to provide something substantive, and not conjecture, which is what you keep accusing Chaukeedaar of doing. Until then, you’re just blowing hot air and are a hypocrite. Sorry, facts are facts.
This next one is going to be really good:
“Fine points against my thinking eh? I don’t even know who the hell said I said the Earth was 10,000 years old, I don’t remember saying that and you believe what others have to say pretty easily with no evidence.”
Well of course it was YOU yourself who said that. It was shown above in a screen shot you obviously missed.
http://www.alienscientist.com/forum/showthread.php?669-Peace-Be-Upon-You&p=3077#post3077
So no, I don’t base what I say on what someone else says, the proof was already provided. You said that, as shown above.
I’ve shown my evidence for what I said about. You, now you show yours, or admit that this statement of yours
“No one unravelled anything and it’s funny you swallow it so easily. Talk about your disinformation firewall…”
Is about you. Pot Kettle Black.
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“Tweeterfist,
“FP, I didn’t come back because I could care less at this point.”
Awww, Twitterfeet
That is so sweet that you still have less to care. Usually people say, “I couldn’t care less.” Maybe this is the reason you come back daily ; )
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3rd time lucky maybe….
The “A” Team hit the nail on the head with you and your use of conjecture as a means to sound like you know what you’re talking about. Like FP illustrates below the main bread and butter of the VC website is discussion centralizing around MKUltra and mind control. Duly noted above, by multiple people (all one in the same according to some of you, the name that shall not be spoken 😀 ) you guys are acting like well programmed auto-bots (not the transformer variety, but similar) repeating a lot of what you were told be “external sources” (elaborated on below). The one thing that none of you have actually thought of yet is that perhaps those that have been whispering these Con-jected rumors into your mind might have carried out all of what transpired in the first place? Like good little programmed and “high” children, you have returned to your master.
Of course my agreement with The “A” Team and FP’s assessments runs the risk of you guys accusing us of being one in the same, but that hardly bothers me.
I’d like to expand a little bit on what has been said because you’re running in circles and like a broken record throughout this whole fiasco here, you’re basically going around accusing others of acting and thinking in ways that are demonstrative of you yourself.
Let me illuminate 😉 (watch how you let that word dominate and color the rest of what I’m about to say) you on what I mean.
“riddled with external forces playing with people, mainly the former user RussianNika. ”Wontonman” was his name I believe, and later due to Toby’s actions and conferring with VC we found it very possible Toby’s whole goal was to stir up shit. We also connected him to a guy known as Dantalion Jones (Toby Jones) which is pertinent to all what happened but I aint getting too far into that.”
Wait up Tweeterfist, don’t just stop there. There is this word “conjecture” you like to repeat incessantly over and over as if it will just magically mean what you want it to mean, but then you drop these sorts of accusations claiming proof, providing none.
CON-JECTURE
You’re conning yourself with the use of bigger words that actually communicate what you are demonstrating.
Prove to us that what you say here is true about Toby, Dantalion, multiple other “external forces” and how you drew your conclusion once and for all, otherwise like the other users noted your guilty of the same thing you accuse Chaukeedaar of being guilty of when you did defend VC. I don’t need to remind you that you’ve made a whole basket full of empty promises do I?
I think “you ain’t getting too far into that” because the external forces that riddled all of that were really internal forces in your mind and imagination, otherwise explain in full how you “connected” anything other that it being just another elaborate mind fuck of your own making to remove responsibility for bringing any and all of that on to yourself?
Not to mention that you previously claimed you started the whole thing then handed over control to Toby. If he really made you do all that without your knowledge, I bow down to the man. In reality, again, you’re just an irresponsible and immature little kid that won’t/can’t take responsibility for what you did yourself. Now because of your shame, you believe anything that is told to you by the one who provides an outlet for your conspiracy riddled mind.
“conferring with VC we found out…”
Aha, you admit that most of what you believe to be true was whispered into your ears by VC. LOL, and we come full circle. How sure are you that he/they weren’t behind it all in the first place?
See how muddle conspiracy thinking get’s the best of you each and everytime, and most of it doesn’t need to be elaborate.
I think you’ve a victim of your own making, a characteristic you share with a majority of the rest of the kiddies coming over to defend your boss. You’re all quick to tell us all here that we’re just fools believing what we are told, when you all demonstrate the exact same characteristic. Project much?
And don’t think that this new stance of yours actually absolves you of all the lies you told previously. Like someone else pointed out, if you lie about those little things over and over, what else have you lied about, perhaps even to yourself?
Like the others, I await this evidence of yours, or you elaborating on exactly what this Toby guy did to you, otherwise you and the others sound like you are butthurt about something trivial, that is unless you can come up with something significant. Waiting….
and my prediction is that you’ll give some excuse as to why you can’t provide this information, and I believe the reason why you’ll do that is because what I’m saying here is true.
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Also I forgot to ask this question too. Am I and anyone else that has visited the VC site and provided them with my email address, on any black list of some kind? No one may know, but I hope visiting those sites doesn’t automatically put me on the list to be pulled out of my house at 3 am and shot in the head on my lawn 5 or 10 years from now…..or whenever they enforce martial law. If not that extreme, then maybe they put you on a list of people to track or do recon on so they can deem you a threat in the long run or whatever. If they do. Lets pray and hope not. But thats a whole different topic. I just want to know if anyone has heard of or has any educated theories on what the government does with the info if they are in fact creating these fake dis-info pages. It seems like a geographic profiling tactic of some sort…Thanx again and great website. I’m glad I found it…
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I doubt it Ben. If there is any such agenda to round people up it’s not just going to be because of the websites you visit. Most people have come across such websites, or youtube video’s and the like. If there is any agenda to round people up it would most assuredly happen after an civil unrest, like being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Hey Ben,
Sorry for the late answer. I really do not think that the VC site is there to identify rogue elements/activists and to list them in a database. But there is some hard evidence that the Department of Homeland Security is gathering such data at special centers, most probably by backdoor access to the Google-, YouTube- and Facebook databases (like shown in Mark Dice’s book “Big Brother – The Orwellian Nightmare come true”).
Please see this video for some shocking background on all of that:
Combined with the martial law preparations (and national defense authorization act) I would suggest to be rather careful with what you do online if you live in the states. Plus not to panic: The elite is preparing different suppression and control mechanisms for many decades now, and they still have not succeeded in creating their totalitarian new world order. There are forces that are working into the other direction. Just make sure you are not afraid of them and get some spiritual understanding of the helping forces and how to connect with the positive ones. For me, God is what helped me out of the fear cycle that online information can get you in.
Strength to you, yours, Chaukee
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“KTG, please change your writing style. This post reeks of you a 1000 miles off”
Sorry truth not me, this is honestly my first reply since the lasts little tiffs. If you don’t believe me check the ip add. Have to admit though I have been lurking for a while, this has gotten very interesting suddenly. I’ll keep to myself the reason why. Later.
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Ladies and gentlemen, see, this is what they honestly believe. They believe the owner of this site and all of us are one person. Dear KTG, how in the world can I check your IP since this is not my site??
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Guess we are not the only ones who have been asking who is vc and why he censors. Came across a couple other message boards & websites asking the same question and inquiring about censorship. From reading the comments it looks as though vc has been censoring/deleting/banning people and their posts for awhile.
Similar to today. Someone posted a thread on vc with a link to this site and now its deleted. For someone who encourages “truth seeking” it is somewhat an oxymoron.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1066721/pg1
http://illuminatisymbolism.wordpress.com/category/vigilant-citizen/
http://www.taraariano.com/im-caught-in-a-bad-romance-with-the-vigilant-citizen/
http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/
http://newworldorder.dyndns-web.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=761&start=130
http://equalpartyusa.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/vigilantcitizen-flushes-equalpartyusa-down-memory-hole/
http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/2010/01/05/10-questions-with-the-vigilant-citizen/
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111002141918AAohj6z
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Sarge says “^It’s already been established that there is a single entity behind the creation of those articles. The same person is creating alternate’s of real poster’s here and forging testimonies.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9266&start=10
Not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree is he? Just a few fries short of a happy meal, isn’t he?
I mean, LOLOLOLOL. Does he realize that answers.yahoo.com cannot be owned by one person. That the newworldorder.dydns-web.com is a massive forum even bigger than the VC and also cannot possibly be the same person who has written dozens upon dozens of articles at each of the other blog sites. To have all that time and energy at ones disposal is impossible for one person, genius or not.
Sarge, who stole your brain?
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Here is another site with people claiming to be censored on vc
http://coilhouse.net/2009/08/vigilant-citizen-occult-website-for-the-true-believers/comment-page-1/#comment-93423
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Guess what I just got when trying to visit the VC post on the New World Order boards.
“Come back some other time. We are doing some updating and cleaning house. Have a nice day. ( Not Really )”
Censorship of the VC disinfo post?
Screenshot:
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Well Willy Boy, those are obviously all just “Toby” because you know, anyone that has anything negative to say about VC must be Toby or someone working for him. I’m Toby, You’re Toby, Io is Toby, NYOC is Toby, Chaukeedaar is Toby, FP is Toby, or VC depending on which idiot from VC forums is posting. Truthseer seems to be the only one not accused of being Toby, I guess he’s legit.
ROFTLMAO
Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby, Toby
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Well, they’re calling me his apprentice. Oh well, guess, I’m the only non-Toby alter
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Will all the Toby’s on the blog please stand up and say
*I*
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Truthseer is obviously suffering from depression. Femalepharoe is an obnoxious, self centred gronk.
Nykballa is a pissy traitor.
One thing they all have in common is they all fell for toby, and they all jelly of Sarge, and they mirin my aesthetics. u mad?
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Sarge I never seen one interesting post or comment from you on VC EVER, the only thing you did is speak to the absent brained kids in the social threads, why are you even here you fool. You don’t know anything about any of us or what happened so just go away back to your teen chats.
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Yep another brilliant scholar who hangs out at Vigilant Citizen Secondary School behind the footie field smoking dope, reminiscing about how bad ass they were talking back to the principle.
Sarge, are you the same Sarge that believes a half dozen blog sites, a few forums and 50+ users that have the same grip about Vigilant Citizen deleting comments, or articles that provide solutions are all the work of one man?
Tell me you aren’t really that stupid and brain dead. Please tell me.
And these people are going to be the leaders of tomorrow?
No NWO enslavement in prison camps necessary. The future is already docile, dumb and perfectly molded to believe whatever they are told.
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That Sarge is just trying to make me look bad. To answer you question, yes I know this is the work of Toby like everyone else on the inside of VC. You guys are all just buttsore and suffering from depression because you were rejected, l8r lozerz
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Well, since they didn’t remove truthseer’s photos despite his asking. I guess I, truthseer, am free to post this
http://tinychat.com/ssbd/84d2fc/76/nyk_balla/724ge/11-28-2011
Hartwell- the reclusive
and
Shannon
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With a decrease in the number of pirates, there has been an increase in global warming over the same period.
Therefore…I am free to post these:
1 – http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120104/2.PNG
2 – http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120104/1.PNG
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Truthseer,
At least youre wearing REAL glasses that are used to see, and not some ridiculous over sized Jerry Lee Lewis frames that the douches with no style employ to make them feel “cool” or a hat and shades.
Also, its nice when young people actually smile in their pictures these days. It shows character. . . you will prob be able to buy a box full of these disinfo agents in a few years.
no worries little one 😉
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“not some ridiculous over sized Jerry Lee Lewis frames that the douches with no style employ to make them feel “cool” or a hat and shades. ” Lol FP!
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lol @ Hartwell, the internet RoboCop Badass. He looks so girly in actuality.
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Wha’s the point in you people posting now? you’re meant to post a comment if you have something relevant to say.. now 90% of these comments are full of bs commonets and private insults.. We all had a purpose at one point and a meaning to talk about what happened..
And tweeterfist you are the biggest 2 faced fool on VC you have the audacity to come in here again now and try to claim you hlped us?? you didn’t do nothing! you just disappeared! you told me to sign into VC with a new name.. I did that.. then I got IP blocked! nice help!
My main gripe with mods was with the childish ass who is Hartwell but I was respectfull.. Some people on there simply shouldn’t be mods. VC canbe whatever and we should be allowed to talk about it.. That’d the end result you police wannabe fools create mess.
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When you post a comment you should post a sentence or something explaining what you hope to gain from it.
Maybe that way you could respect this blog and stop leaving the keyboard logged bull plop you’re all so good at. Furthermore if any of you want to quote somebody please for the love of God use quotations..it isn’t hard!
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There’s nothing relevant to say. All that needed to be said has already been said. VC is a pawn, obviously. He deletes comments that provide solution, and bans members that are intelligent and question things, something he encourages but won’t tolerate. He keeps brain dead morons like Sarge, Katarzyna, Belligerent; pot heads who lap up all that is said without question, those who believe in boogie men and shadows. It’s not only been proven multiple times over on this blog site, but the other ones that Willy Nelson provided above. The peanut gallery at VC have all been conditioned that this is the work of one man, a few of them believe that a team of researchers are behind it but they couldn’t possibly be the same team of researchers collecting data at the VC website. Don’t you see how silly all of their reasoning and logic (or lack of) is? How can anyone sum up any of this. It’s been one of the biggest soap operas of December. I had a few good laughs. If you are still upset you were banned from that net kiddie social site, I don’t get it? You know what it’s all about. Make something better and don’t do what he does, or go somewhere already established and make that better. For now, let’s all just have a laugh at how stupid most of the kids on that site really are.
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Kenny Rogers, cool story bro.
You see, the thing is, there is no VC conspiracy, it’s just a bunch of lowlife nigels who are heartbroken because they were served. They come here to mutually drain their emotions.
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“you see the thing is, there is no VC conspiracy”
Right Sarge, just a bunch of coincidences that people claiming to be part of a “research team” would know about, stuff that only VC would know about. Your mind is so clouded you don’t realize multiple styles of writing on the blog itself indicating that there are more than one author there, never mind the dozens of personalities that show up with few postings to support VC in times of “stress”. He’s just a good ol boy doing his due diligence, like towing the party line of the elite, externalizing their symbols because he cares about people like you. We got it, we do.
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What most people don’t understand is that alot of us had these sort of suspicions long before this little blog came up. Most including myself even called VC out for being disinfo. I started a thread and it went on for a heap of time but i was never banned. VC participated in defending his work within this discussion. These assumptions have become exhausted and are detracting people from the premise of the site, being exposing the symbolism in media. There is no conditioning going on, and no logical reason not to believe that this whole mess is the work of that pyscopath Toby Jones. Even had me fooled for a while.
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Are you confirming that you believe a dozen+ blog sites, an elaborate and huge conspiracy forum and some several dozen comments from people claiming that their comments, providing solutions (see yoy50 himself) are all the work of one person?
Have you sat back to think for one second how utterly ridiculous that is?
Do you think it’s ironic that you’re accusing a bunch of “low-life” nigels of being butthurt because they were served when the one argument that Tweeterfist and Daciple have is that the same happened to them elsewhere?
I pity the future with such muddled thinking ridiculosity that comes from people like you, belligerent, and the rest of the peanut gallery.
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The above comments are not made by me the real Sarge. I wouldn’t glorify Toby Jones by posting on his blog here and that’s all I’m gunna say here, nom saying? You want to hear from the real Sarge you come back to VC where all the real action is.
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::poof::
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The VC site’s bread and butter specifically deals in Mind Control/ Mk Ultra and Illuminati/Luciferian Symbology in the Media. It was actually through referral from the site, that I came to learn about Brice Taylor’s “Thanks for the Memories” – One of the most disturbing thoughts and experiences ever to be laid out on paper as this woman recounted her time as an MK Ultra slave.
These subjects: dealing in pedophilia, satanic cults, rituals, murder etc…I think its safe to say – are pretty heavy subject matters.
That’s why I find it really interesting that all of the Moderators on this site JUST SO HAPPEN to be children.
Not to say that children are incapable of digesting the information, more so that it is obviously an agenda that VC would “expose” this illuminati behavior but leave the discussion and judgement in the hands of babies who, don’t believe in conspiracies and probably shouldn’t even be feeding their brains this information that they are not capable to handle.
On Sarge.
“reminiscing about how bad ass they were talking back to the principle”
hahahahahahahahaha. Kenny Rogers nailed it!
Sarge, ever notice how your main insult you throw around is “self centered” yet if memory serves – you are the only one who frequently posts real pictures of themselves with no shirt on all over the internet. Are you deflecting?
In any regard, again, you were not duped by Toby. I wont go into the particulars AGAIN but the logical insinuation is that unless VC is going to post a notice about TOBY for ALL new members – he is going to have to let the discussion ride. Only “old” VC members are suffering from the delusions that all new members who sign up from all over the world at any time should refer to YOU guys for information.
HAHAHA
I wouldn’t allow you people to baby sit my pet rock, let alone trust you with knowledge as to who is disinformation.
Tweeterfist.
You are a liar. Period. You are a liar and a pitiful fool. You came here, saw that something was amiss, and then spoke before you got permission from your master. They then brainwashed you to say we told you “half truths”
You are pathetic.
Also, to all those men coming over who usually stay in the religion forums arguing about homosexuality – it is extremely homo erotic to pledge allegiance to some man you’ve never met and rush to his defense at a moments notice.
Yall are “jelly” for Vigilant.
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you prolly get all your jollies when you see my pics and that why I put them up, bisly!
If you want to talk about homoerotica, where are the dead presidents? Them fools got soem sort of weird luv 4 each other.
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Immature and childish. Seriously, how are you older than me?
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Crazy old cat woman has officially lost her marbles.
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clever. . .
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Lol ignore Sarge dude is just butthurt because he thinks his online girlfriend left because of all this
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all this talk scares some peeps, but not me you guys are as fake as they come
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By the way I love how Ignotum’s “This is a thread” was deleted. The only thread worth reading in the social forum.
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SilentObserver,
Of course it was deleted, most of the insightful/creative/critical thinking ones are deleted.
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whoa. i didn’t know that.
perfect example of the gestapo at work.
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Also, femalepharoah, it was deleted because he mentioned us. i saw his post specifically and he said it was wrong to talk about people when they weren’t there and then gave an example of Israeli cruelty. I think the message he was trying to convey was obvious and VC would have none of it
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It was because he acknowledged that those of you who were participating with him on the subject were gone. He somehow knew you had been banned. To VC(s) that means he is either following this blog or commenting on it and you know what that means? Basically anyone not pulling the party line he feeds them must be eliminated.
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You mean this thread, “SilentObserver”?
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5869
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Yeah Laya nice to see you moved it back from the Mod Lounge *rolls eyes*
I wonder what happened to Ignotum’s post lmfao. It probably got deleted right before he got permabanned.
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Lol I wonder if Vig banned Fail too she wasn’t exactly “cooperative” was she
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When a topic hasn’t been posted on it gradually moves down, sometimes going onto the next page or the page after that etc.
In the case of “This is a thread”, it was there all along, but it had not been posted on because Ignotum was taking a break. (He went for his break BEFORE the FP banning incident 😉 )
He’s since returned, he actually posted earlier today:
(http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=69&start=10430)
Gonna keep accusing everyone who’s not posting right now of being banned? *rolls eyes*”
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sumfin these foools dont know is that we watch this blog daily to make sure they dun get away with theyz liez
we onto you Toby!
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I’m asking about Ignotum’s response which was posted yesterday to “This is a thread” that has been deleted. And what he said in reference to me (Aeon) and femalepharoe was the primary reasons why the whole thread was “relocated” to the mod lounge.
Laya why are you decieving people like this I looked earlier on the message boards and even googled “this is a thread vigilant citizen” to check if it was there and it visibly said the requested topic does not exist.
By the way when I requested for my account AeonFlux to be deleted it was so my posts would be deleted not just for me to lose access to VC it wasn’t so Vig could silence me lmfao.
Right after I requested my account to be deleted I was ip-banned lmao it makes zero sense.
Idk I thought Laya was different unless she’s being impersonated right now but from what I see the power has clearly gone to her head and she would lie to her friends just to protect someone she knows nothing about.
Vig talks about exposing the truth but his practices thus far have been quite contradictory. It’s interesting that you could “pose” as a whistleblower (and I use the term lightly. see: Bratz Dolls In Illuminati Masquerade Ball ) yet the way he moderates functions exactly like the elite; who he attacks. Who does he think he is in all honesty lmao he writes articles about symbols Gaga puts up in videos and arsenic levels in juices. It’s all so irrelevant to the conspiracy movement. When you post on a public forum, you the poster always runs the risk of being discredited the fact that he won’t let people openly express their opinions on him is laughable. Either the guy is a sensitive *insert b letter expletive word here* or he’s a disinformational media pawn whose sole focus is for us to dwell on the music industry as the crux of the illuminati movement.
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“TheRealSarge” isn’t the real Sarge rather RN aka Katarzyna aka Vig’s cleanup-crew/social cheerleader trying to discredit everything. Sarge posts at a different time zone (Aus) “sarge” should be him.
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If you look at my posts here I haven’t been “defended” Vigilant even once. That’s not my prerogative.
I’m just calling people out when they blatantly lie for the purposes of shit-stirring.
Yesterday at 8:23am (UK time) Ignotum deleted 2 of his own posts. The thread has been there all along, and has never been removed.
(And good Aeon impression btw =3)
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Ignotum’s two posts about us earlier today have disappeared
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PLEASE, Ignotum never even edits his posts, let alone delete them
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5869&hilit=Ignotum+Arcanus&start=50
At this point there is some great insight by Ignotum.
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Are these pics for real? This does not seem very Christian, let alone mature. If this is the material that twitterfeet thinks is funny maybe vc should look into selecting a more mature mod. Would Jesus make fun of handicapped people? Would Jesus make fun of people who have addiction problems? Would Jesus be racist? And to title the folder “sh*t I feel an album for”.
Saw these posted at http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/
Your facebook page has racist pictures,
promotes drugs,
porn and other degenerate things like making fun of handicapped individuals?
WWJD????
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I saw those pics and more in one of the comments way up at the top. Saying they are offensive is an understatement.
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one more thing, you peeps are all low lifes and no lifes 4eva
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You are Russian Nika 4 ever but I am not here to deal with the footwoman who deals in treachery and is ever standing by the door hoping to delay the visitor into leaving
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By the way, those of you who had my gmail, please don’t mail me there. It was hacked, by someone in UK, it seems. I got it deleted but it’s best not to mail me there
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Wonders how many people in the UK I know with my mail….
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I’ve been busy, but I decided to come late to the party! There was some interesting information in here. It’s kind of amazing how much drama surrounds VC.
I scanned for my name, and I will give a response to the hate and accusations.
I am not Daciple. That is silly. I am no one here who was accused of being me, that’s silly.
I’m sorry that random people got deleted for being Toby or me, everyone knows that I always supported total free speech for everyone.
My last thread was not a “meltdown”, it was just me speaking my mind openly, giving the blunt truth as I always have.
I quoted and linked Satanist sites and showed clearly how that the moral subjectivist “light soul” religion that Hexa preaches is the same as what the Satanists preach. It is essentially the same as the moral subjectivism that Aleister Crowley preached. I showed how that the astral travel that Hexa practices is witchcraft.
And then a lot of people got angry, because speaking the blunt truth and proving it always makes people who hate the truth angry, but speaking the truth sometimes wakes up a few people.
Speaking the truth about Luciferian/Satanism is not allowed on VC, at least, when someone says the same exact thing as a Satanist, unless that person claims to be a Satanist you are not allowed to call them a Satanist.
This would be the same as if Hexa said, “I believe there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet”, and I said “Hexa you are a Muslim”, and Hexa said, “No I’m not a Muslim, and that is offensive that you called me a Muslim since I don’t claim to be one”
That’s how silly it all is, in reality, but it turned into a big deal, because the Hexa really is a Satanist by doctrinal definition, and the implications of that truth are very offensive to lots of people.
I am not a racist bigot. Femalepharoe is a racist bigot. FP, you had a vendetta against me as soon as I dared to say that there is a group of black people in America who fit Chris Rock’s definition of “nigger”. You are racist FP, because you hate that I, a white man, spoke the same truth about niggers that Chris Rock did.
You are a racist FP, because you want to blame everything wrong with black America on white America. Your anti-white racism showed through to many people other than I. You even got caught up in all that racist “Black Hebrew” nonsense and started posting that after I was gone. You are so racist that you want to believe that American blacks, the descendants of West Africans, are actually Hebrews, so you can call your black people the “Chosen People” Pathetic.
I even saw a thread where you were attempting to say that the NBA lockout was a racist affair.
That was classic economic dispute between Labor and Owners, and we are talking about an industry that provides multi-million dollar incomes for a workforce of primarily black men, but you can only see the world in terms of the oppression of your Chosen People by the White Devil, also referred to as The Man.
I made it very clear in that final thread that I would not be censored, that I would not be bullied by you FP, I would give my blunt non-racist views that included the use of ethnic slurs to accurately describe not entire races, but portions of races, as Chris Rock famously differentiated between “niggers” and “black folk”, so did I differentiate between “white trash” and “white folk”.
I clearly stated that I do not hate the people who fit the stereotypes, black or white, I wish that they would change their ways. I said that these people, black and white, commonly abuse crack or meth, and commonly create children and refuse to properly take care of them.
What I said is common knowledge, it is the truth. You, as the stereotypical “angry black woman” just hate to see your natural enemy, the oppressive Man dare to say that all of black America’s problems cannot be blamed on the Man.
And for the people who said they hate me for saying that people who reject Jesus go to hell, well, that’s the Bible says, so its the words of the Bible that you hate. It was said on this page that I am hated for being a Bible-thumper, so there you go. You hate hearing what the Bible says.
Lots of people do.
Jesus loves y’all!
And Toby, just because I said “y’all” does not mean that Daciple and Tweeterfist and I are the same person.
That’s just silly.
But you already knew that.
And Toby, if you had to be a “genius” to have such a wide range of knowledge, then that makes me a genius too.
You are a joke Toby. I have no doubt that you have a few other people involved in your games, but there is one main individual.
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You were the most disgusting person on that board.
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Temper?
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Chainmaker,
I’m not about to high jack this convo on race politics.
But the fact that you are an upper middle white American Male that uses Chris Rock stand up as his moral compass to black Americans and as validation to you being able to call black people niggers, “because Chris Rock did it” speaks to your ignorance and arrogance.
You are a fool.
Sad , how you willfully played the puppet of the “angry christian”.
I don’t bully people. I merely respond.
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that is,
if you are even real.
you to be a self proclaimed genius yet still believe in Toby raises some red flags on the IQ test…
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What I find most amusing and curious is that if all these people really believe there is just one person behind all of this, what sort of drive do they have to come and fuel the fire with their so called personal defenses?
Doesn’t that seem just a little bit redundant? Think about it. If Toby Jones is one man and one man is responsible for all of this, who are they defending themselves to and for what?
Logic like that has just got to be a hammer to the head sort of pain for you Vigilante’s, aye?
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It’s Chain. No one in this entire universe can give a response with that kind of attitude that says that I’m always right. No one but Chain can call other Satanists in that casual way since when others do it, it is either a dead serious tone or an extremely hilarious joke. It has to be him because I have never seen anyone call someone a nigger in that casual tone.
Genius, though?
Nope
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You call me a racist bigot here, so we will talk about race FP.
Upper middle class I am not and never have been. I was born low middle class, one of the poorer kids in a racially mixed neighborhood, and I will not bow to reverse racial bullying, not from you or anyone else.
Niggers are niggers and white trash is white trash, and grew up watching the lazy and self-destructive behavior of both who are exactly the same except for skin color. Chris Rock is not my moral compass, but he is a man who spoke a lot of blunt truth.
You certainly did try to bully me, and you slandered me on the board after I left and you slander me here, calling me a racist, all because of YOUR racist attitude.
I spoke against the attitudes and actions of a class of people in America, a lazy criminal welfare class of whites and blacks, and that doesn’t mean every poor person in America, it means the poor people who choose to be poor.
You willfully slandered me with full knowledge that I had spoken against class and not race, simply because you think that no white man should ever be allowed to use the word nigger in any context, not even the context that Chris Rock did, because Chris is black and I am white.
You don’t own that word because you are black.
I did not use it to disparage all blacks.
You are a hateful liar FP, and you are especially a fool for buying into that Black Hebrew garbage. Racism overwhelming your common sense.
There’s also a lot of idiot racist British that like to say that the British are descended from the Israelites.
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“Sad, how you willfilly played the puppet of the angry christian.”
Very interesting insight FP, one I had overlooked.
Let’s analyze the bits and pieces of the story they’ve thrown at us so far. Dantalion (Toby) was all for mystery religion and Toby (Dantalion) came around and played the Christian defender. Dantalion disappeared and all the Christians saw Toby as a real bad ass Christian. He eventually leads them away from the VC into his own forum, a forum that Tweeterfist claims he initially created before handing the reigns over. Something happens there than involves RN and wontonman, people are going in circles for 40 years (sorry had to throw in some Biblical parallels there) and no sign that they’ve been delivered from the bondage of the Egyptians (Dantalions mystery religion?!?) so they get bored and leave back to VC?
That last part, the conclusion, is mine because they’ve never really discussed that. All they’ve said is Dantalion is mystery religion, Toby a fake Christian that fooled them all into leaving, and tricked Tweeterfist into making a forum for him then giving him control, and then everyone up and left that forum back to VC after “colluding” with him, according to Tweeterfist.
Please forgive me if I have elements of this story wrong VC’rs. If you know more, please feel free to share or fill in the blanks. We’re all for some early 2012 drama before the shit hits the fan 😀
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Quote:
There’s also a lot of idiot racist British that like to say that the British are descended from the Israelites.
End Quote
Sorry to break it to you, Chainmaker, but there is no such thing as a British race. You’re either English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh. And even in them, there are sub-divisions
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Can someone tell me what Toby did Mr. Kettner?
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Are you the infamous Chainmaker “I am a Jesus Clone” telling everyone they’re going to hell dude that was banned for calling everyone a Satanist?
Can you perhaps tell me which of the username’s belongs to Toby? It’s hard to figure it out with all the accusations flying around.
One more thing are you the guy called Kettner that met Justin in jail? If rumors are not just fake, you were in for grand theft and Justin for drug dealing?
I’d be much more keen hearing that personal story and how your friendship developed than all this Toby, Illuminati and weed talk that’s been going on lately.
I’m all in for a heart warmer.
Everyone else that is in say AYE!
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well, I will agree that the fiction I was being fed daily on VC by Hexa is extremely Satanic. And the most brilliantly weird thing is he still calls himself a Muslim while calling God a Non-Light Lord and saying other Gods exist. This in itself is the opposite of Islam. And I agree with Chain, according to Islam, Hexa will go to Hell for being an apostate, no matter what he is saying about this Light garbage. He does not believe in Islam. I also find it weird how all the Muslims of the VC boards suddenly fall in love with this fiction for no reason. Is this true Islam? No, it is not, it is a lie. They’re deluding themselves if they think that their beliefs are compatible with any of the Abrahamic religions since they all believe in many Light and non-Light Gods
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I didn’t say that I am a genius, I referred to one of Toby’s accounts that said that Toby couldn’t possibly be one person because he had such a wide knowledge of so many topics that it would only be possible if he were a genius.
He is no genius, and neither am I.
I am above average intelligence however, and so is he, and I must admit that I have gotten to the point where I find Toby’s antics just as entertaining as he does.Toby has created this entire story about being a big mysterious experiment, and emailed it to lots of people and now he has a whole lot of suckers buying into the hype. Toby is not a big mysterious organization, and the original Toby Jones account was certainly one single person as was the Dantalion Jones account. Toby gets off messing with all these paranoids, he made himself into a legend and he strokes his ego feeding this drama because it is entertaining to him.
Vigilant has nothing to do with Toby, I have had communication with both Toby and Vigilant in the past.
And truthseer, I’m glad you can see the obvious truth about Hexa.
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Back.
Anyways, Chain, I used a proxy to create the Basilisk alt. I wrote a post, got sent to the main page, typed it again but got banned before I could post (Which makes you wonder about this going to the main page thing since I didn’t have any swearing). I also had made that alt two days before that with 8 posts but was not banned till that post.
Anyways, I used the same PROXY for the other thing. Why did I get a PM saying what I posted above?
About Toby, no idea, I don’t know him personally. You have never seen that Vig or Toby are different or even that their IP’s are
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Are you saying this guy is the Dantalion/Toby Jones you are referring about?
http://dantalionjones.com/
I’m still waiting for you or Tweeterfist, assuming you’re now here on his part defending these accusations, to show us exactly what this guy did and why he has you so angry? How did you guys uncover this rather interesting Jones conspiracy that Dantalion and Toby perpetrated on your lives? Enquiring minds want to know. Afterall, you all spout that you’re about truth, so share a little about the truth of all these investigations that led you to these conclusions. I’ll listen, I promise.
You guys all come in here drop accusations and make these vague references and then disappear.
Then what?
You know, like SHOW US SOME PROOF of any of this. All people keep saying is “toby did this” “Toby is behind that”, but no one goes on to elaborate. Why? Whatever he/they/them/she did, it obviously created a huge enough rise out of your people to be commenting like this. From all of these accusations we are assured of one thing, whenever criticism of Vigilant Citizen arises, the name Toby gets tossed around. Sounds like a good “adversary” or a true straw man to me. Just an easy way to brush whatever criticism there is under the carpet.
Ok, let’s recap…
He, or Tweeterfist, created a new board and a lot of members were banned by Vigilant by going there? Somehow Nika and Grey Sanity were dragged into it and they created their own board too? Everyone that left Vigilant eventually went back and after “colluding” with him came to understand all of what is sparsely referred to here.
** after colluding with him ** as admitted to by Tweeterfist…now that sparks my curiosity
From the outside looking in, do you realize how silly the story sounds, but let’s assume you can show us exactly how you all came to learn this ok? Right, now give us meat, give us potatoes.
You know like fill in with the details.
FWIW, I contacted the individual at the site above to see if he is Toby. I guess that might be fruitless as he could either deny it or not answer, but in the interest of keeping this very entertaining story going, I did it for our collective sake. Good on me. (Pats self on back) 😀
One more thing, didn’t Daciple (per a comment quoted above) say that you were not interesting in this drama and only about spreading the truth of Jesus Christ?
Someone named Not Loki, could be Toby I guess for all we know, posted this in the comments above
“I think this quote by Daciple is funny too:
“Nah Chain is in Ohio hes been visiting his family and friends, he doesnt have enuff time to get into all that BS,and when I did tell him about these things he just brushed them off as nonsense.”
Someone else said Chainmaker was one of Daciple’s alter ego’s. For as much as you and Tweeterfist like making accusations without showing anything real behind them, it’s as probable that you are the alter ego of Daciple, all things being fair right?
It would make sense really. Daciple starts threads and tries to remain neutral, you follow up by bashing everyone and angrily call them Satanists, telling them they’re going to hell and then get banned for a while all the while the original persona Daciple is scott free. Seems like the perfect little forum game to me, happens all the time really.
I guess what I find most amusing in this whole soap opera is that you’re known to be the user who created over 100 sock puppets to troll the VC website, and yet you’re hear joining the choir who says Toby has dozens of persona’s on this blog. Isn’t that like a Pig telling another Pig that they stink?
Fill me in on how your participation in this thread is helping to spread the truth of Christ, that is assuming this is what you truly stand for?
Are you really a Christian? Using words like “nigger” and “white trash” the way you do sounds nothing more than someone who’s angry.
Lastly, is it possible in your people’s minds that anyone who has the slightest criticism about the way Vigilant Citizen conducts himself, and treats his members, may not be this Toby guy in the end? If so, under what circumstances would you consider that to be true?
Awaiting your answers patiently.
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Chainmaker, you say this
“Toby has created this entire story about being a big mysterious experiment, and emailed it to lots of people”
Well I think that’s as good a place to start as any. Who did he email, and show us the emails. We all know in this day and age anyone can screen shot anything, so I’m looking forward to all of this 😀
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Daciple is right, I didn’t have time for this drama I was on vacation, and I don’t plan on sticking around for any more of it. I was just bored and decided to see what Toby had been up to, and then decided to correct some misconceptions around here.
I don’t have all the Toby drama emails, Daciple has been Toby’s main target not me, I wasn’t involved with the Truth Files stuff. I don’t have my conversations with Toby or Vigilant saved, I don’t have anything, and you can believe me or not, I am not that concerned with it, this is as much entertainment as you get from me, I tell you the truth, and you can accept or reject it. Toby has sent Daciple all kinds of screwy emails for over a year, I have read some stuff here and there that Daciple showed me, and I laughed when I saw the email when he first started on his “you are part of an experiment” routine. I’m sure that crap was sent all around the grapevine, and then I come here and Toby is playing games with multiple accounts, and I know who they are and I can’t help but smile watching him play his silly games. He really is unhinged, I mean there are people who play golf for a hobby instead of playing mind games with conspiracy boards, but I understand the sick humor of it, I read his alters here giving twisted lies and I can imagine the giddy expression on his face.
Yes he is Dantalion Jones, and he did have an economic aim at TruthFiles, he tried to get people there to write material for him that he could edit into a book that he planned to profit from just like all his other books.
Yes I am a Christian, and I never commonly used the words nigger or white trash, i used the word nigger in the specific context i have made clear, and posted Chris Rock’s video in a discussion about race in America with femalepharoe a long time ago, and made it very clear in that discussion that I was referring to the MENTALITY of the people that Chris Rock was talking about, made it very clear that its the same as the white trash mentality.
In my final thread, where I exposed Hexa as being a Satanist witch, femalepharoe decided to attack me for calling Hexa a Satanist witch, and then proceeded to berate me and call me a racist. I then made it very clear in that thread the same things I am saying here about race, which was only the second time on the board that I ever used the words nigger or white trash.
FP thought that she succeeded in pushing me to “meltdown”, but what she doesn’t understand is that I had been pushing the limits for a long while, by speaking the truth about various false religions and belief systems and pissing off lots of people in the process.
Muslims don’t like to hear that Mohammed was a child-molesting murderous warlord, and most pagan occultists don’t like to be called Satanists.
What FP doesn’t understand is that I knew Vigilant was going to ban me anyway, because I don’t do well with a gag in my mouth, and I just spoke the truth till the end with full knowledge of what was coming, I was getting ready to go on vacation and I pushed it as far as it would go.
Am I angry? I do get angry, when Hexa says that 6 year old girls are capable of giving consent to be married.
I’m not all wound up though, I am just a very good debater, who goes on the offensive about why everyone else’s religions are evil, and that doesn’t make me many friends.
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And as far as me making alts back in the day, that’s what happened after I got banned for saying the same thing that Sahih Bukhari says, that Mohammed was a child molestor.
I didn’t make alts to play mind games like Toby, I made alts to say the same thing after I was being censored.
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@Chainmaker-
But you agree that Vigilant practices censorship, right?
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of course he does, I am banned am I not?
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Ok so he (Dantalion Toby) sent emails to Daciple and you don’t have them? You also weren’t a part of the truthfiles mission, where there was an economic aim and he tried to get them to write a book for him? And you don’t have emails that he supposedly sent to Vigilant.
BUT someone must, because someone must have told you that.
So where is their proof.
I said it before, in this day and age screen shots of anything are available.
Will they please step forward, or can you tell us how you pieced all of this together.
It must be shown.
Or is it the same with you as it is with Tweeterfist and all hearsay and conjecture? If there is no proof, then it must be, and we’re arguing about someone or some group that hasn’t come forward yet, unless you believe the “Jones” people here.
Waiting…
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I should have added that sort of proof the hearsay and conjecture variety is as good as the sort of proof or claims connecting you and Daciple, unless you really did meet in jail and can confirm those rumors spread by Kitty Kay above?
One last thing, someone on the VC site noted that you and the username JFK seem to share the same schedule. There’s a member there named Kurochoi who announces when you are on vacation or away regularly, especially when someone claims a troll is you, and it so happens to coincide when the user JFK is not present. When you return, he starts posting again. Others have identified that the other user Lyndon B Johnson is the same as JFK.
All conjecture and hearsay mind you, but if that is what we go on as evidence then it might as well be true.
To casual readers, when someone is referring to Dead Presidents, they’re talking about Lyndon B Johnson and JFK, two users that are believed to be the same, and believed to be Chainmaker. Just recently JFK started attacking Islam again, something Chainmaker was very well known for doing. He has done it in a round a bout way, asking questions that seem innocent first, but stirring the pot.
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The dead president is a Zionist Christian which is the exact opposite of chainmaker. And here’s your disappearing mail
Courtesy,
Google
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Truthseer, those look like screen shots from an iphone? Please link them together, how are they who, which, what and when?
With respect to the Dead Presidents, aren’t these guys going around saying that this Toby guy was pretending to be a Christian or something? What purpose would someone pretend to be something they are not? Wolf in sheeps clothing type of scenario?
Seems like they would know exactly what that means. Tweeterfist parades around as a Christian, while acting like what someone would expect from a rebellious satanist. So then Chain is using a new disguise to not be recognized and banned. You don’t see the subtle barbs being laid slowly and the subtle attacks escalating form that character towards Islam.
Keep watching, when Chainmaker disappears, so does JFK.
Then there’s the odd moments when Daciple decides to write with a college level of English and the times when it’s barely grade school level. Same thing with Vigilant apparently. I’m not making any accusations mind you, just observations.
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I’ve been deciding for a while as to whether to share this or not and wanted to show this today. It’s been bothering me for a couple of weeks and I already sent it to a couple of people via e-mail. Now I’m deciding to share it here. There’s something fishy going on.
Let me give you a clear explanation as to how this all happened:
I went back to the VC forums about a couple of weeks ago just to completely clean out my PM inbox and got one from anna-key (now known as Cymbaline) that has “Why are you doing this” as the heading.
What’s strange is that when you compare the writing style between the PM and her usual post, you will notice that both are completely different.The PM has correct punctuation and captialization, whereas her forum posts don’t.
The question I’m trying to raise here is why is there a sudden shift in writing styles between the PM and her actual post. It’s almost like as if someone else wrote the PM.
Could someone please explain why the writing style just quickly changed. This has been baffling me for a while and sort of reminds me of how “Vigilant”‘s writing style is completely different between their articles on the main site, their forum post, and the threat e-mails that were posted in the comments earlier.
From what I have seen so far based on the information everyone here has gathered, I swear that there is more than one person behind the “Vigilant” name. Could the same also be possible with Cymbaline? I might be dead wrong on this, but I’m just wondering about the change in writing styles.
Here is the PM:
http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120105/4The PM.PNG
Here are some sample posts that provide an example of what I was refering to:
http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120105/Post Example 1.PNG
http://imageftw.com/uploads/20120105/Post Example 2.PNG
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Okay, so I see that the links weren’t working. Let me try the image uploader again.
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Ayaka,
Above someone suggested that the main posters on the VC site may have a number of accounts.
I’m starting to think that there only may be a very few actual independent members and the rest are straw men ala interns.
I was wondering who this cymbaline was bc they kept referring to stuff someone that new shouldnt know. .
So , according to VC rules you are not allowed to have alt accounts UNLESS you are a VC puppet/intern.
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Cymbaline is Anna-key. I think it’s the same account but yes, many posters have two to three accounts. Laya once told me (Before becoming mod, now she’ll deny it, I’m sure) that Alma in Wonderland, CIA, Katarazyna were the same person
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Femalepharoe,
Cymbaline is VC user Anna-key’s current username. She is still using the same account, but just changed her username. I remember once seeing something in the user options section where a user could change their username under the same account.
Shortly around the time the “Who Is” thread was made, Anna-key stated that she was chaging her username to “Cymbaline”.
Here’s the exact thread where she said that she was changing her name. It was in “The Pink Floyd Appreciation Thread”:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8051&start=60
“me too!
I was going to change my username to
:Cymbaline:
but I’m afraid people won’t recognize me anymore”
Here’s another one. In this one her old name is even shown in the “quote” box when a user quoted her post.:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8051&start=40
You can tell it’s the same person because this user had a gimmick of always using Pink Floyd themed avatars, because Pink Floyd was one of her favorite bands. When she was Anna-key she had a flying pig up as her avatar, and eventually changed it to a photo of Roger Waters. Under the name of Cymbaline, her current avatar is the album cover to The Dark Side of the Moon. Kind of similar to the Japan/David Sylvian avatars I used to have up when I was on there.
Although, I can most certainly tell you that we are two different people. I’ll even e-mail you my IP address just to prove it. I live in Pennsylvania, Anna-key lives in Leeds. She’s old enough to be my mother and it’s pretty obvious as to how old I am because my youthful ingnorance to life happens to show a lot through what I have posted in the forums and on this blog. I even admit that I’m no genius to the subject matter.
I’m just a young wanderer trying to find the truth to life, but everything I come across just seems to be disinfo. I admit to having a tough time finding out just what is the real truth and what is pure disinfo. As informative as many of my post were outside of Social and Off Topic, I wasn’t really as much of a genius as I thought I was. When I thought that I knew just about everything and was posting a lot of info, it turns out that I was only barely even scratching the surface. To put it midly, I basicly know nothing. I thought I was smart, when it turns out I wasn’t. I’m just new to what many refer to as “conspiracy theories” and I’m trying to educate myself as much as possible. Also, I don’t even listen to Pink Floyd. Again, no boring drama. I’m just telling everyone what I’ve learned after my time from VC.
Also, there were a couple of username changes that happened around the time of the incident if I remember correctly.
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Where is the button to send all those uneducated kids back to VC…? 😉
And one comment from my side to the Toby-story: I do absolutely not care who is who or if this is the same person than that a.s.o. The only thing that interests me is the concepts, the information, the truths and the lies behind the words. Those of you who continue to impersonate multiple alter egos on the web can do so (on both sides of the fight, of course), but be assured that splitting yourself into multiple voices does NOT increase the credibility of anything that is written. One or two or ten opinions in numbers do not change a lot compared to 7 billion humans. It just does not matter WHO said what.
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@tweetfirst ” Actually you are not coming through very clear” !
See I said what I had to say and was done with it. Yes I saw your response to me, but I also saw the way the VC squad rallied together to do major DAMAGE CONTROL on both his & this site. I decided to let my comment speak for it’s self,…………
but did you really reply to me saying ” it’s not like that, I am a Christian, and we so love everybody blah, blah, blah……”
Only to be busted out, then you leave a follow up comment confirming what I said, slash contradicting what you said at the same time…..REALLY ?
smh and round of applause for the confusion techniques * claps for five minutes*
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The funny part is going to be when VC bans every last one of you’s over here defending him in 5.4.3.2.1…..
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Laya the mod liar said:
“BEFORE the FP banning incident”
“Aeon you were banned for less then 5 minutes. You’re free to log in, you know Vig unbanned you.”
“If you look at my posts here I haven’t been “defended” Vigilant even once. That’s not my prerogative.
I’m just calling people out when they blatantly lie for the purposes of shit-stirring.”
– you come in speaking half truths and spreading DECEIT through omission.
For instance, you use my banning “incident” as a time line for something yet did not elaborate on the incident. You never have.
– you claim not to defend VC, yet did EXACTLY that when a poster said he had been banned.
lol @ you “calling people out” when you are trying to pick and choose what pieces of the puzzle you can get a way with like the vulture you are.
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FP, you’ve become a start of a new timeline. Congrats, that was one of the honours Toby had. xD
As for Laya, she’s changed completely since becoming mod. Power’s gone to her head, it seems.
Would post more but I have a paper in 12 minutes and mobile typing isn’t easy
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How come they’all defending Vig and he no defending himself? Somethings not right? How come they’all talkin the trash bout people on Chaukeedaars blog in their forums, but Layadumi then dun go ahead and said that Chaukeedaar is a disgrace for not censoring it when someone here has something not so nice to say about thems? Why they’all support their master when he censors criticism and then getting dun angry with Chaukeedaar for not censoring criticism here? What they’all thinkin, that the world revolves around Dear Leader?
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?p=180557&sid=d9922ebfbcdf80b5aee3def9017a6aef
Before becoming mod. All suspicious
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Lying again hoping n one calls you out for it? 😉
Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:20 am
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8041
^ Md congratulations thread…ooh look at the date…
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:23 pm
Liars gunna lie *eyeroll*
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You changed the date, that thread was posted in October
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Also, I posted theatreofdreams. Now can anyone else, see Failboats name but no post
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?p=180147&sid=eec9196d0714d7053a3e91d6dcba8e45
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And Andy aka GateCrasher too
Laya?? You were saying…? 😀
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Oh and since I don’t trust you VC’ers, I’ve taken a screenshot
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I fail to see where I lied.
How do GC and Failboats requesting their accounts deleted relate to me?
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I fail to see where I said you lied.
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You named the screenie, “TheLayaLie”….?
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And your point is? It’s name is Thel Aya lie.
So?
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Oh and Laya, you did not lie. You made a statement that was true but you made it such that the truth would stay hidden
Quote:
Lol I wonder if Vig banned Fail too she wasn’t exactly “cooperative” was she
You replied
Quote:
Gonna keep accusing everyone who’s not posting right now of being banned? *rolls eyes*”
Turns out they are banned, aren’t they?
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Well lays the question is how did GC, failboat, and theatre of dreams manage to get their accounts and posts deleted by “request” as you claim ,
yet no one here has managed to do so??
Yes, liars will indeed lie
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Especially compulsive ones like Laya. Also notice how close the name is to liar?
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Me no likey Laya. Me makey roometh about Laya
http://www.chatzy.com/26529617256819
Password be repeat
Duh
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Kat, if you’re going to troll, don’t give a link to my site in your screen name. Thank you
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And Laya, I can name it whatever I want.
By the way, I should have name it, TheLayaDisinfo
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A lot of comments. Yet nobody said this simple Truth yet:
The people behind VC are jews. It’s a jew operation.
The first commenter lists people thought to be behind the VC operation: Mitch Joel, etc. When I go to that twistimage.com and see the names, and I put those names “joel,” “goodman,” “rosenhek” together with what they do, the conclusion is obvious:
They’re jews.
It’s all a jew operation.
That explains everything. Their goals include:
– attracting inquiring minds into an engaging Distraction from criminal JEWRY.
– conditioning people to accept jews’ control (disguised as “Illuminati,” and other secret groups) as a done deal. result: people won’t fight it.
– wasting people’s time on anything but a Solution.
The Solution:
http://www.EqualPartyUSA.org
I’m James Laffrey, real name. I’m doing it because Somebody has to. I’m doing it because when a true patriot figures out how to save his/her country, it’s a DUTY to try. I need about 499 more Americans. it’s 2012 already. Let’s do it.
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Hey James,
thanks for adding the last peace of prejudice and hatred to that bloody comments section. Sad that people don’t learn a little logic at school: The fact that some secrect society members are Jews does not automatically imply that there is a reliable causal relationship between being jewish and being an Illuminati member. On your Nazi page you don’t even mention the difference between khazarian/satanic and hebrew jews or the connections of Zionism with secret societies or Jewish people who oppose Israel. I hope one day you can stop to hate and start to learn, the world is much more complex than your Adolf told you.
Greetz, Chaukee
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I was just wondering how HItler hasn’t been mentioned yet.
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Lol Chauk.
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He might be here to recruit Chainmaker.
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He states he is a “mystic Christian” NOT gnogsic. And I’m pretty sure he is rattling cages and THIS (YOUR) SITE is active disinformation. Hitting too close to home for you? Guess so. 😉 lets see if my comment gets deleted. I filter everything through the Bible and what VC states, holds weight. Period.
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In regards to Chainmaker ,
You suffer from a inferiority complex. You come in here talking about niggers, white trash, and Chris Rock stand up and then accuse ME of being a racist bigot.
We see that this is exactly the hegelian dialectic that is expertly utilized on the VC boards and the hatred and lies that are nurtured in that environment.
Chainmaker claims that he is a good debater, yet when challenged by someone who does not have to lower themselves to name calling he becomes defensive and calls me a “bully”.
Chainmaker is an intellectual juvenile delinquent, remorseful over the hand that smacks him.
And to all of those who wondered/questioned WHY I had to bring the race issue up and be constantly on guard at the good ol’ VC – look no further than dear Chainmaker.
More often than not , he would be allowed – even encouraged- to spew his hatred and everyone would overlook his moral deficiency in order to argue semantics in scripture! Why?
Well It is obvious that like the pastor touching children, or the southern Baptist who will not allow interracial couples in church, or the Muslim father who kills his daughter for honor;
He is not a man of GOD.
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FP, you are the one slandering me here calling me a racist bigot, and I defended myself.
I defended myself by explaining that you are calling me a racist bigot because you are projecting your own racist attitudes onto me.
You are lying again, shamelessly lying, and anyone can read my threads, they can run a search on my name and search for the word nigger and they can read what I wrote on the site and what I wrote here. I did not call anyone on the board a nigger or white trash.
You would have a good point, if I had actually used ad hominem against someone in a debate, if I had called someone on the board a nigger or white trash.
But I didn’t do that.
I was made a point in a debate, the same point that Chris Rock made about the difference between black folk and niggers and what is wrong with the nigger mentality, which is the same as the white trash mentality. I hate the nigger/white trash selfish lazy irresponsible mentality, not the people. I disagreed with you in one debate about race, and you decided from that point on that you despised me, because I did not agree with you that all of black America’s problems can be blamed on The Man.
American racial politics was not an issue that came up often if at all, you are the one who is concentrated on race, not me.
After I was gone,
You are the one who posted that racist Black Hebrew garbage, not me or anyone else.
You were the one crying racism about the NBA lockout, not me or anyone else, and that allegation is so ludricrous it is hilarious.
You are obsessed with race FP, you have a psychological need to be the racial victim, your obsession affects your every thought process.
It is really sad.
I often spoke against child molestation, expecially when it comes to the fact that Mohammed was a child molestor and the Jewish Talmud says it is okay for rabbis to molest children. I speak against child molesting Catholic priests.
I never spoke against interracial marriage, because there is nothing wrong with that. Moses had an interracial marriage.
I did speak against homosexual marriage, not against any secular political legalization of it, but I gave the Bible truth that such a marriage is not Christian, that God does not see that as marriage and does not condone homosexual behavior.
You attacked me over that issue also FP, you did not like to hear the Bible truth that homosexuality is immoral.
You can choose to believe that I am not a man of God, but I always spoke the Bible truth, even the Bible truth that you hated.
Jesus loves y’all, black white red yellow purple and green!
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It doesn’t sound like he is. He may think he’s going for a shock factor, being bluntly honest or something of that nature when he drops those words, but even the Bible that he claims to hold close to him says it’s not what goes in ones mouth that defiles them, but what comes out of it.
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I thought it was interesting that ALL of the most … “outspoken Christians” on the board often times , for no particular reason, always refer to Chainmaker as their guiding light.
This was always suspicious to me as a blind man could see that he is insane. ItS true, the boards are an assault on Christianity in part , and little did Chainmaker know he was doing EXACTLY what they wanted him to do. Turning people away and confusing people with his hate, for if I was a young child on the spiritual fence and everyone kept referring me to Chainmaker as the pillar of Christianity – I’m sure that I would more than likely be aetheist.
Also , nother interesting tidbit, there are several Christian based sites that deal in the illuminati. What even brought these supposed “Christian” warriors –who are all men who denounce homosexual behavior by the way – to the VC site?? Where they reading up on Katie Perry? Britney Spears? Lady Gaga?
What is the part they play in the story?
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They spread disinformation, trying to destroy the rep of many truthers and turning people to atheism.
Forget Christianity, even Islam, do you see one normal Muslim there? They’re all drunk up on new age bullshit, call God Non-Light and then call themselves muslim.
Even Laya who hides her atheism
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Well they sound lost.
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You know, I’m wondering, what do our comments do exactly?
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Sorry, the same story as in december already: I don’t get informed that some comments directly go to the spam folder. So today I came across it, saw some posts that clearly where not spam and unlocked them. I should check them more often…
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Nope, I mean what’s the point of us making them now. It’s obvious they won’t listen
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For me, it wasn’t for them.
I would like to spare the general public from a potential sinister trap.
Though you may have a point that most that needs to be said has been done.
It’s sad really, to post with the intention of exposing Illuminati disinfo only to find your assisting the disinfo agents. Hopefully new people coming in will see…
Thanks for the reality check
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Pretty much why me and Ayaka have gone to a new place.
At least, it’s quite with no VC disinfo
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I believe this got hidden earlie
About Katarazyna or should I say, the most deceptive person I’ve met.
However, I won’t give my conclusions.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9186
They say ‘truthseer’ but it’s an attempt to malign me. No, I want you to notice
Quote:
Also, that image has my IP address in it.
The image in question, found through Google Cache is
Draw your own conclusions.
Ask yourself, who’s IP address is in that picture?
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http://www.bell.ca/Bell_Internet
^So the Above should be Vig’s Internet Service Provider
Montreal DSL Bell Canada
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About Toby,
The rumours about him, what he does, I have but one question.
Toby obviously is a human, right?
He eats, drinks, sleeps and works?
Yet you guys say all of us from different time zones at different times making up a 24 hour day are Toby?
So when does Toby sleep and work?
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There is supposedly a group remember? (tongue in cheek)
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I had another thought.
VC said the word filters are in his server and when his server blocks your IP, you can’t access the boards and you have to manually mail him the IP. Well then if the server blocks your IP, how can you access the main site. It can’t be on another server.
Btw,FP you can join my site if you want (Shameless advertising is shameless) It’s in my link
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You know there are a few consistent characteristics I’ve observed from these “christians” (no I don’t believe they really are true Christians or followers of Christ) and “truthers” from the VC
– very aggressive
– most openly communicate they have depression or some sort of life drama
– many are drug users, mild hallucinogens or not, sometimes worse
– many have said they’re addicted to porn or were
– almost every single one of them think that “truth” and “facts” are comprised of hearsay and conjecture, one even said so on this blog
– seem to believe that they don’t need to follow the rules they impose on others
How do I come to these conclusions?
Well many of them have admitted it in their own forum comments. I can easily show this to be true, unlike them. Tweeterfist admitted to some of that of his own here.
The hearsay and conjecture? Both Tweeterfist and Chainmaker say they don’t have any evidence to prove their claims. Tweeterfist admits that most of it came from “colluding with Vigilant citizen” after the fact, which basically means he was told so by VC. Chainmaker said he wasn’t even part of the project and was told by others.
So what do we have? A classic “he said vs she said” drama. Fun huh? They believe what….get this….best part….what they are told….and have the audacity to accuse others here of being guilty of the same.
So we have a Tweeterfist claiming that he was responsibe for starting the other forum and recruited most of the members with some of the other Christians help and then handed over the reigns to this Toby guy. Why would he do that? So he could leave there and blame him for it? I guess…because well, they haven’t explained anything really.
and…drumroll…. not only can none of them show us evidence that Toby = Dantalion = Heretic = tried to get them to make a book for him = a group of people, but they can also neither tell us what exactly Toby/Dantalion/Heretic/Group did to hurt them, or whatever butt soreness exists from that relationship.
Oh and they all believe what they are told about the situation by some “other” authority.
I think that Truthseer admits he was guilty of this as well because he admits he wasn’t a part of the original forum drama, neither followed any of them, but heard it all from some girl named Katarzyna or Russian Nika, who is tied directly to VC who “colluded” with Tweeterfist and his group and apparently explained all they know about this person name Toby and his group.
And none of them have ever suspected that the whole thing was just a big ploy by the Vigilant Citizens themselves to further their own agenda.
Dot Dot Dot
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This is one sick post. Why all the hate for Christians ? Being a Christian does not make you perfect. You have Christians ! Then you have people saved & filled with the Holy Ghost ! Please learn the difference !
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I think you’re misunderstanding. There is no hate. It’s talking about how some people who are full of hate, point the finger to others while being guilty themselves. I agree with you on everything else you said.
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“Not Perfect, Just Forgiven!” and thus completely unaccountable for the false witness they bear. That’s a Christian.
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I apologize. I just get so sick of the Christian bashing. Maybe I did jump conclusions.
However I finally had the chance to sit and read the comments from the top and all I can say is WOW. Things are starting to come full circle. It all makes PERFECT sense now !
Evidently things took a turn for the worst. Relationships were destroyed which led to the inner circle being outed, by the former inner circle ( Jones).
There is no denying that there is some shadyness going on. I posted my comment after only reading a few other comments. Now that I have had the chance to sit & read I am amazed at how we all have almost the same exact similar story & have made the same accusations.
Tweetfirst babygirl/babyboy….I think you have been duped. Honestly I don’t believe one can play as naive as you. You better pay better attention to your surrounding’s & to the company you are keeping.
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Truthseer got all this information from the forums. It’s still here, I don’t know RN personally
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Daciple’s pictures were from the VC forum. Like I said, I participated there. Here:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4549&start=230
(P.S- Try changing the numbers. Someone left out a few pics there and so have I)
And the rest of the info I have, I was emailed by Belligerent who thought I was an old member (See my tricking of the VC’ers earlier. I am not really an old member before the boards reset. I’m new xD)
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So I have to ask again, how does any of that prove any of the accusations? Someone emailed him? That’s proof? If you have more, or whatever you say Belligerent sent you, then present it, or they should.
Don’t you notice that when someone starts asking Tweeterfist and Chainmaker hard questions they disappear?
Obviously their whole story is based on hearsay and conjecture. The only part of Tweeterfists story that I believe is that he initiated the movement of people from one forum to the next and then there was a falling out. The rest? Where’s the proof, and if there is proof, what did the Toby guy do to them?
It still sounds to me that Toby is an arm of the VC people to further their agenda. Any information that “Toby” supposedly has on them, so does VC.
Waiting….
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@The A team- You think I’d be here if I didn’t believe what you said? 😛
All I’m saying is in response to you saying I was in on it when I was not
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I’m making observations Truthseer, obvious ones. I think you misunderstood what I said, I read where you mentioned you weren’t part of the original drama but also once believed the stories indicating that stories is all they seem to have and how easily people believe in stories these days. I’m challenging some of the accusations they’ve made because I want to see how they came to these conclusions, so far all we know for sure is that they “colluded” with VC and he told them everything they know. Tweeterfist basically admitted that. This whole debacle is basically a big show on how easily people are led to believe through the “media” and that is when one thing is repeated enough times people just seem to accept it as truth without further investigation. Of course, Vigilant Citizen says he tries to get people to think but then you see what happens to anyone who thinks on his forums: BAN.
And this is really what all this was about from the beginning before Vigilant Citizen sent in his well trained army of non questioning believers to spread as much bs and distract away from the fact that most people on the multiple forums and blogs posted here recognize that he actively engages in the type of behavior that he is supposed to be exposing; censorship, agenda pushing and the type of tactics one would come to expect of the elite.
As soon as Chaukeedaar identified the GIN ads on his site and identified who is behind them, he took them down.
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Absolutely clear analysis, dear the The “A” Team! I mean, after all there has been disclosed: if this is not abvisously enough for some people that VC works for the other side , those poor ones really need to find out themselves the hard way, I guess.
Greetz, Chaukee
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Oh you’re saying I was guilty of believing what I heard from others? Yes, I was.
But then everyone was, even Chauk until he realised
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It’s ok Truthseer, no need to feel bad for doing it. In the beginning, when one embarks on the task of discovering truth for themselves what they find might shock them. Sometimes the shock is so great it’s hard to believe anything else and they just stop there. Others continue on and the next hurdle they need to get past is believing in anything unordinary. These ones fall into almost any conspiracy theory, and sometimes even make their own. I see both types at the VC. Rarely someone with a bit of a deeper insight comes but they don’t usually last long because there are few people to have a genuine discussion with, or they get cut because they’re asking questions that hit too close to home. These are the ones who understand abstract concepts with the addition of sound-logic.
There’s a reason why we were instructed to do this by Christ
Matthew 22
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
do you see a lot of that happening at the VC? If not, then how close are they to truth there, or how much do they care?
There’s only one way to find truth
Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
I apologize to those who are averse to Bible verses, and if you’re one of those reading this then look past that and think about the message.
Less imagination more facts….
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It’s intelligent threads like this I am talking about
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4395&start=160
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Sorry but the thread seems to back up at least what Truthseer & Dac is saying about Toby.
It also possibly backs up what the ” Jones” stated. I didn’t get the chance to read all 28 pages but yeah.
As the Jones stated he had multiple personalities/multiple users…….. Sure enough he comes across as crazy & deranged, and a whole lot of other things……….The question is was he planted ? It’s quite possible & possible him, VC & the Jones are all in cahoots.
I did come across a post of someone saying a moderator ordered him never to mention, or speak about Toby again.
When you go back and read what the Jones said it makes sense, or am I missing something.
I’m still piecing the story together, reading the comments, different links & emails. Every day I find something new so forgive me if I got it wrong and feel free to chime in & correct me !
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Correction- Not “truthseer” but ” Tweetfirst”
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As a matter of fact it’s possible Toby is the Jones ^^^^^^^, or their creation !
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Ok,
Lurking here for a while I feel it’s time to say this. Please forgive any and all spelling and/or grammatical errors, it’s very late. Anyway. if you’re really interested in the truth then you would absorb what I’m saying and not focus on searching for flaws and errors.
I’ve been lurking because despite the insults directed at me I’ve been trying to understand your point of views. For the most part I still don’t agree but I understand (to kill the murmuring “possible” accusations no I haven’t been “planted” here to run damage control. I just don’t have a narrow mind). Back to it, I think what you guys/gals are trying to convey is it put a bad taste in your mouths because you had questions and /or suspicions, and because they were voiced you were silenced. If or when in you position I would harbor these red flags myself, but the truth is there is no truth. We are in a time where we’re spoonfed lies daily. Who can we really trust? God says your salvation is your own.
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“I think what you guys/gals are trying to convey is it put a bad taste in your mouths because you had questions and /or suspicions, and because they were voiced you were silenced.”
Well done Sherlock Holmes, well done.Thank you for FINALLY arriving at what we’ve been stating from day 1…
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btw my post is fragmented I’m doing this from my ps3 and only allowed so many characters
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Meaning you have to do your own research and trust what God provides you. I’ll be honest with you all right now , ktg is a screen name, a passtime if you will, some one I don’t take seriously. La Donna is my real name, who I really am, and I am noone close to what anyone perceives ktg to be. A Aeon had great insight on the VC board as well as truthseer, yet they still went in to characters at times. FP I think you gave us you with little to no diviations rather people liked it or not. Anyway, I’m not here to “clear my name”. I’m just saying don’t let the bannings make you out weight your focus in searching for truth in the inevitable propaganda we’re facing. There’s a lot more coming so focus on the preparations. Not the drama. that’s all I wanted to say
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p.s.
if you find faults in what i said then sobeit unleash what you will, i just said what god put in my heat to say. just don’t expect me to reply as i have no interest to
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Since everything has already been said and pointed out by everyone on here, I just got one more thing to post before I go. I got some sewing projects I want to work on.
This might be subjective to some, but I found this interesting synchroncity when I was on VC’s Facebook page. Look under “Similar Facebook Pages” to see what I’m talking about. It’s the second one on the list. I find this kind of ironic. Does anyone agree?
Here’s a screenshot:
ではまた。
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I’m missing the correlation with that one Ayaka, sorry, can you explain it?
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I theorized that the Marquis De Sade being listed in the VC Facebook page under “Similar Facebook Pages” somehow correlated to the VC forums being mostly rampant with sex threads.
Okay, I admit that this might have been pointless to some, but I was trying to help everyone out in exposing VC the best that I could and would post tidbits that I found interesting and synced up with the negative side of VC. I just want to be helpfull to the ones that were oppressed. I even e-mailed some of my theories to truthseer, femalepharoe, mysticseeker, Aeon Flux, and MysticShadow, so they could overview the ideas before I posted them on here as comments. I didn’t want to be though of as stupid, so I would do this to see if I was right or not in my theories.
Sorry if my post on here were kind of meaningless. I’m just second guessing a lot of things these days. Are my post relevant or not? I’m starting to think that they’re not, but some might say they are. I just don’t even know anymore.
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Hey Ayaka,
I think you have a very keen eye for spotting these plausible connections. VC and the mod crew certainly do appear to either endorse or adhere to the views of Marquis de Sade on the forum (wittingly or unwittingly). In fact, the entire social&off topic section seems to reflect the views Marquis de Sade. For instance, “he is best known for his erotic works, which combined philosophical discourse with pornography, depicting sexual fantasies with an emphasis on violence, criminality, and blasphemy against the Catholic Church. He was a proponent of extreme freedom, unrestrained by morality, religion, or law” (wikipedia: Marquis de Sade). Quite reminiscent of a certain infamous satanist is he not?
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Aleister Crowley, right?
Could the Marquis have been a major influence on Crowley?
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Yes, I am speaking of Crowley and perhaps Marquis de Sade was an early influence on him since they do have similarities.
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I figured it had to be Crowley and the central principal behind the Law Of Thelema (Do what thou wilt).
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I don’t get it. Ayaka spent her whole time in the social section of vc, so did nyk. Yet these two are the ones calling out other posters for being immature children, spending all their time in irrelevant threads. You two are major hypocrites. shouldn’t be talking at all lol
Ayaka was the one who was posting the most in those sex threads, with here transvestite fetishes.
Nyk, i had no problems with you, though now that you’ve called me out i might aswell add that you are no less pathetic than ayaka. I think the majority of your posts, were one liner’s like ‘lmfao’ and ‘lol’, in threads in sot. Who are you to talk. I don’t ever remember you writing anything worthy of thought. You made threads, and would then run off when met with answers for others to do the talking. LOL i just don’t get what happened to ya, you were cool. And don’t fall for united4ever, he is a racist and nothing more. I can’t begin to explain how much he defiled my heritage. If you think i instigated it, then you obviously don’t know ish and should keep your mouth shut.
And you people categorise me under this social clique? I drop into VC maybe two-three times a week, and mainly to drop in religions to see what’s up. Social posts don’t count towards your rank, so how do you think i got over a thousand posts, you people don’t know anything. I only somewhat became more active in Social because of one poster that i enjoyed conversing with, apart from that, i would rarely go there.
And for the rest of you, Femalepharoe included, who are you guys? And why do you talk like you understand the whole Toby debacle. You don’t know crock, i assure you, because you weren’t there. Toby and i spoke over PM’s for a few weeks before the site shut down. He fed me all this Vigilant is a disinfo agent, and i believed it. I called Vig out at the time, he neither banned nor locked the thread, he replied explaining himself.
But it got out of hand, because now everybody seems to be riding that train, it become exhausted and is taking away the attention from his work. This was never about Vigilant being an agent, it was always about Toby and his deceptive ways, but now its become about the ex-posters who were obviously not happy that they got the boot.
Though i must say, i did enjoy reading the comments. Did not think it would be that entertaining. Femalepharoe, just lol. You make as much sense as Humble posting in social. When i heard you were banned, i was actually glad i wouldn’t see your 2 cent logic in religions anymore.
Truthseer, you are a deadest failure with your internet antics. And then you were so dumb enough to show your true colours. Man it would suck to be you. [Censoring by Chaukeedaar: Pic of other person removed on request]
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Ooh you posted a pic of mine.
I’m wondering why you and Hexa have so many pics of mine. The conclusion isn’t pretty. Just get over this man-crush of yours, both of you
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(Chauk, can you remove my pics?)
I don’t really care much but it would be better
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Hey truthseer,
Sure, I’ve removed the link. As long as you don’t confirm it’s you, it could be fake, so no reason for me to censor automatically.
I guess I’m even obliged to delete personal info of people on their request – so there we go 😉
By the way: You are one symphathetic little guy 🙂
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So is that what he did wrong, this Toby guy Sarge? He figured that the Vigilant Citizen was spreading bs? So is that all it takes for others to be called Toby, because that’s all I see anyone doing on that site. What else you got Sarge?
So you’re also happy that there are no longer users like FP who had an intelligent opinion, so your social forum escapades won’t be disturbed? Is that your definition of intelligent use of your time, while you tell everyone here they’re wasting theirs?
If you’re so over it why then are you here?
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What did Toby do wrong? Apart from being a malign, racist poster, he had an agenda that was not purely to expose VC. He had other plans. After he swayed me into thinking VC was deceptive, he stopped that, then went on to preach Christianity and anti-occult propaganda via emails. It was all to gain my trust, I think. Why? When he was doing this, he kept inviting me to join the site he had set up during this whole VC shut down drama. I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned this, but above all, it seemed he was vested in getting as much members as he can to join his site. Again I don’t know why he would want this.
I thought he was genuine, even after the fallout from his site. But then I see him impersonating members and creating lies. And then all these weird discussions on various sites erupt with all these fake testimonies. It made sense, Toby was behind it all. Even went to the trouble of creating many alternate persona’s to make it look credible.
I think even on this very page, there is Toby posing under different titles. The guy is extremely obsessed with this, sending all this ish to Daciple, even threatening RN.
Like I said, this topic is exhausted. Its been playing over time and time again, enough. VC has the right to delete posts relating to it. All of a sudden the hypocrite morons who were banned, have decided to use this as arsenal against the site. Truth is they are just cut that they got banned.
Who are you anyway “A” Team? You don’t sound like you know what your talking about. Cos if you did, you would know femalepharoe posted in social, as did ayaka and nyk. These hypocrites were part of that regular social group. They barely participated anywhere else. And from what I remember of FP posting outside of social, she was hardly intelligent. More so crude and purposefully baiting argument’s with her snarky and ignorant comments. As for me, real members know that I hardly post in social, in fact I implore you to go through there and check for yourself. Full of sh!t the lot of you lol
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How are some users hypocrites for posting in the social and off topic forum? Those users you mentioned have made numerous insightful contributions to the site outside of social and off-topic, which is something that can’t be said for the majority of posters who post in that whirling cesspool of filth. I also highly doubt that those users were discussing eating sperm, posting random GIFs, discussing their sex-lives, posting nonsensical words and smileys, and playing idiotic childish games like vying for what position they want to be in the “human centipede.”
Fair enough if VC in his raging paranoia. feels the need to delete any posts relating to any questioning (he just ends up looking like the censorship clown and HYPOCRITE that HE is), but to treat users like this alleged “Toby” character without proving so and then to immediately ban us without warning, does not reflect well upon him or his site. His behaviour and actions are what has led us to this blog…I guess it’s just too difficult for thick- headed numbskulls to comprehend.
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I’m certainly not “cut” that I’ve been banned from the website where you Jersey Shore wannabes like to congregate.
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**The users I am referring to in particular are Femalepharoae and Ayaka –I haven’t seen them post anything hypocritical like you’ve stated. I have however, seen quite a few childish and immature posts by you.
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Ok I’ll bite. He told you VC was deceptive.
Invited you to another forum, which Tweeterfist said he started then handed over to him.
Racism, Malign, and sending Daciple emails, and threatening RN….Ok great, so there has to be a lot of documentation for all of this hasn’t there? I mean, I’ve only been asking for your VC puppets to please present some of it. The best we have is that Tweeterfist says he “colluded” with VC on all of it, and Chainmaker says it’s all true but he wasn’t there. So you’re new to this blog, I’m assuming you have all of this right?
Come now, show us the proof of all this, because for someone who keeps getting name dropped all the time here (Toby) and on your previous VC forums, there really has to be an awesome story to all this and a whole lot of evidence, like you know, screen shots and all.
Who am I? I’ve dropped a few posts on the VC forum in the past. I didn’t stick around much because there was hardly any decent and prolonged or in depth conversations. Too much arguing, chest beating and social games. Every once in a while someone got banned for being “Toby” and the name was dropped a lot, and then it was here, so I’m now genuinely curious. The more curious I get and the more unanswered questions I have, the more it seems that all of it is based on stories, hearsay and the like. I don’t doubt that a character named Toby must have existed on the old VC boards, but then I have my doubts that he wasn’t a creation of VC.
There just are too many people who have the same story about VC from a wide variety of sources for it to be just one person. If you want to believe that it’s the work of one person, I guess you’re not really a reliable source.
For the record, I read some of Aeon’s and FP’s posts in the religious forums and they were indeed thought provoking. You on the other hand, no thoughts entered my head from what you wrote, neither now. You seem like the rest of them, a story teller.
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Oh wait
“it seemed he was vested in getting as much members as he can to join his site. Again I don’t know why he would want this.
I thought he was genuine, even after the fallout from his site. But then I see him impersonating members and creating lies. And then all these weird discussions on various sites erupt with all these fake testimonies. It made sense, Toby was behind it all. Even went to the trouble of creating many alternate persona’s to make it look credible.”
Tweeterfist said he and Daciple did most of the recruiting though. They’re not to blame? And then you say you “saw” him impersonating members and creating lies. You mean like you were actually there when he was doing it at a computer, looking over his shoulder? That’s how you know it was him right? And because a bunch of sites “erupted” with stories about how Vigilant Citizen censors, and bans anyone who asks hard questions and his followers all accuse the same person, it must be true.
Sorry Sarge, but I think this does it for you. You fall into the same mud headed thinking as everyone else who believes in the scare crow. You believe what you’ve been told because “it made sense, Toby was behind it all.”
The Devil lurks in the shadows, doesn’t he? And I guess the Devil you know is best.
“even went to the trouble of creating many alternate persona’s to make it look credible.”
I know, I see many of you guys saying the same about this blog, the owner, and some of the users here and on the forums. So, again, same question; how do you know it’s all the work of one person? Just a hunch? Someone else told you?
That’s all it takes to convince you huh?
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‘better the devil you know than the devil you don’t’
This means that it is often better to deal with someone or something you are familiar with and know, even if they are not ideal, than take a risk with an unknown person or thing.
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I’ve just learned some interesting information about this Dantalion Jones guy that you people will want to hear about.
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I just learned something about this Dantalion Jones guy that you people might be interested in hearing about. Give me a day or two to sort this out.
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Question for Sarge, and the others who link Dantalion Jones to Toby. How did you learn this, and you do believe this to be true right?
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Who else would be making false testimonies of people that were member’s on VC? I have weighted assumptions because I’ve spoken to Toby and I know the kind of deception he plays. You inherently don’t. Tweet and Dac recruiting people doesn’t prove anything, apart from the fact that they too fell for the trick. Tweet and Dac were only there because Toby led them there.
I don’t know who you are, though you are definitely full of shit. Aeon only posted in Religions to bring his post count up. Apart from that he never did anything but TinyChat and thread games. I don’t know much about FP, but from what I do, she never posted anything as interesting as you claim. Your only saying so for the purpose of disagreeing, even though you have no solid basis. I wouldnt be surprised if you were toby playing this.
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Here are some numbers:
Sarge has randomly mentioned. Me 4 times for no reason in his last posts.
Sarge uses his star count and posts as credibility for substance yet completely overlooks my thousands of posts in fact i believe we had the same star count when I was banned though I had been a member for a.shorter time.
While initially I was attempting to count hoe many views and replies my threads got once.it.got over 20000 I thought it would be a bit arrogant to post.
As I know you, Sarge, has no problems tootin your own horn please ..illuminate the viewing public has to how many original threads you have created? Not just came in with your troll pot stirring.
Crude? I won’t blow you up , by copying and posting your jewels of knowledge, but your post where filled with profanity and sexual innuendo, you especially loved throwing in ref to male genetalia to really…hammer your point across.
Furthermore, you don’t know much about me bc I spent my time in theories and news and events.
But thanks for retouching on a question you self proclaimed VC religious warriors have not answered; I don’t know if you got the memo but it is a conspiracy sight supposedly at least, what is your motivation by hanging out in a conspiracy forum and never posting about conspiracies?
Who are we? Who are you? The fact that we weren’t around back then I is even more credible tbh. Even if we never posted our experiences.on this blog they still would
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Be true and our treatment suspicious. And since you like to keep my my name in your mouth, you cant specifically scream Toby with this, none of us were led astray by Toby we were all of a sudden banned.
Let me try to explain this to you like a baby.
Are you in school? Do you know anything about professors? Ok well when you have a body of work based on a theory bc its not fact you see, and then the professor releases it to the public and to peer review he knows thAt it will be tested and critiqued. He knows that free thinkin people supposedly interested in idea and truth won’t just garble up his hypothesis as fact.
Here comes now Vigilant, known conspiracy theorist on Mk ultra , illuminati and symbolology but something interesting happens when his work is.presented to the board. When ever his work is put to the test the questioner is shot , dragged out of the room and a select group chants “Toby did it”
Despite seeing vigilant standing with the smoking gun.
Lol
You’re so lost and brainwashed.
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You forgot to mention that a majority of Sarge’s posts are one liners and mostly are repetitive “Christianity is fake and has been infiltrated” “Jesus was not God”, and “The Triune God is false” Then he redirects people to the same pro Islamic website each time. I have no problem with him or anyone else having an opinion like that. It’s their right after all, but it’s his same repetitive stance that makes it boring and him a mindless drone.
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So you have no proof, it’s speculation and conjecture? Just like I thought.
Also your statements:
“What did Toby do wrong? Apart from being a malign, racist poster, he had an agenda that was not purely to expose VC. He had other plans. ”
and
“I thought he was genuine, even after the fallout from his site.”
Make NO SENSE.
So you claim that Toby was a malign and racist poster, assuming on VC, but then when the other boards went down you still believed he was legit?
The rest of it is just you being a monkey who repeats what he is told because still after all of this, you VC puppets have presented nothing tangible, other than these sorts of contradictory statements and logic.
I’m asking for something specific here because I’m going to show some information to you and everyone else that is going to make you think, and I’m going to back it up.
But I want to know how you and everyone else linked Dantalion Jones to Toby Jones. Just explain it the best you can. So go back to your “sources” and please tell me how they are the same. I’ve been doing a bit of digging and I have some interesting information to present. If you don’t know how they are the same because you just believe anything you are told, send one of your friends in; Daciple, Tweeterfist or Chainmaker, all of whom have said the same to explain it to us. Explain to us how none of this is VC’s doing. I’m still waiting.
“Your only saying so for the purpose of disagreeing, even though you have no solid basis. I wouldnt be surprised if you were toby playing this.”
You see, when you have little choice in terms of behavior the world becomes black and white. I’ve learned long ago, in the pursuit of truth, that when a story is interesting and believable you do what you can to try and research the sources to see if the information backs up. You accuse me of having no solid basis, while not providing one shred of basis other than hearsay yourself. What does that make you?
As for me being Toby, that’s the quality of your guys arguments then? Anyone who ultimately does fall for your repetitive nonsense in the end just becomes Toby.
You see, the person who is full of “shit” is the one who believes anything without question. Neither you nor Daciple, nor Tweeterfist, nor Vigilant Citizen are Jesus Christ and therefore my challenging questions do not make me a doubting Thomas. Instead, it makes me a responsible citizen. You’re going to be re-evaluating everything that VC has forced you to swallow through his minions very soon. Maybe through the experience you’ll learn to never swallow what someone says ever again without at least looking into it a bit further.
So go back and find out how they figured out Dantalion is Toby please. Come back with some dots connected or stop being a brainless parrot.
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A person has a right in these economic times to make some money.
I had a blog that did fairly well but i wasnt happy with the ads that were displayed.
IT firms actively seek to make money from unique sites that bring in hits…
I think there is a lot of reliable info on vigilant’s site that people find hard to swallow and are looking for any solution not to beleive it, such as this site.
They will be like: ‘phew, i’m glad that wasnt true’.
But the harsh reality is that a lot of it is.
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Hey RhuBarb
Are you that bad a reader? You will probably not find any single person who has commented on that blog article, me included, that does not believe in the accurateness of most of VC’s articles. What we question is his motives, and there is significant reason to do so. I for myself have swallowed much harder truths than Lady Gaga being a Baphtomet worshipper and the like.
Your arguments are really weak. If you deceided that you let yourself be deceived so easily, so be it.
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Actually some of what Vig says is questionable. Here’s an example:
Vigilant mentions Adonay and relations to free masonry. However, a bit of research shows that any source to back this up is a proven hoax
(But then again that’s the only thing I’ve ever noticed amiss about Vig’s articles)
P.S- This is in secret Arcana
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Exactly Chaukeedaar!
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No, chaukeedaar. He isn’t offering 100% accurate information. And I say this as a person who studies the “occult” and comparative religion with authentic interest, not as a deliverance Christian who sees demons in every shadow.
Someone who reads Crowley, Freud and the dry Masonic texts is not going to mistake a Jack Chick tract as an educated resource. Someone who writes at the level of intelligence he does is not going to throw in resources tainted with fanatical religious slants that crumble apart upon inspection.
He’s promoting the disinformation first and foremost.
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Symbols have no power with the exception of the power you give them. The idea that symbols rule the world is absurd. It’s “man” that rules the world and the power he has accumulated via his network and knowledge gained through that network. Understanding human psychology is paramount.
In the occult the neophyte is indoctrinated to the meaning of said symbols and a strength of belief is wielded into them as their indoctrination continues.
If anything they serve as a medium of communication, and most probably are now being used as a marketing ploy. Someone pointed out above that Alice Bailey’s corrupted organization claimed there would be an externalization of the heirarchy ordeal happening at some point.
More accurately I think the “mysteries” are being slowly exposed to the youth of today to train them in the meanings, or otherwise slowly indoctrinate them.
Exposing these symbols therefore helps to bring attention to them.
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Hey The “A” Team,
That is one decent summary, I wish I could write so eloquently in english… 😉
Question: May I use this comment of yours in my next article?
Greetz, Chaukee
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Hey Icono,
You’re right, I went too far by stating that most people here think that most of VC’s articles are accurate. Just had those Illuminati celebs pictures and symbols in my head. To be honest, I haven’t read enough of the articles and I’m obviously not as literate in occult writings as you. Is there a chance you can put down your insights about what’s exactly disinfo form VC? I guess an article of yours could not be slandered down so easily as mine as being not well backed up 🙂
Peace, Chaukee
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Yeah Chaukeedaar, feel free to use it how you want. Thanks for asking, and I’m honored to have you publish it.
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So I’m begging now. Where are the VC puppets screaming Dantalion Jones = Toby Jones. Where are they? I need to know how they made that connection.\
Come on truthers, especially those who profess to be Christians. You tell us you have the truth, you tell us you spread the truth. Where is the truth in this? At least show us how you came to believe this to be true? After all, if you are about truth, we are to believe that you at least did your due diligence in this right? So connect the dots. Less repetition of your beliefs, and more explanations on how you made this conclusion, or you will run the risk of being forever known, at least on this blog, as mindless repetitive parrot drones.
Less imagination, more facts.
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I expect full silence on this challenge, with the possible exception that “It’s just true because we know it and we don’t have to explain it” type of reasoning. The VC cheerleading team of Daciple/Chainmaker (probably the same person, I mean if conjecture and hearsay are our weapons of reason and logic we’re at least using the same process they have used in their investigation), Tweeterfist, Katarzyna, Belligerent, Layamani, Sarge, Ibsen, and the rest of the drones that have come in here to overwhelm everyone with the same bit of “information” that they have derived from “collusion” with VC will probably remain silent on this. Nay, they will remain silent on this. Why? Because they’re all just gullible dupes.
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They will not respond ,they can’t.
I’m interested to see your findings.
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“I’m interested to see your findings.”
Same for me 🙂
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Let’s just say that this whole Dantalion = Toby Jones thing is going to get blow up, depending on what side of the fence you’re on it’s either going to confirm suspicions or debunk them. Either way, I hope that it’s a good show 🙂 because I’m collecting some fireworks right now. Just waiting for the muppets to show up because I want them to have front row seats.
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Hey chaukeedaar,
I realize VC’s motives are questionable but i have done a lot of reading and analyzing, (other than VC), and it logically makes sense that there basic facts that cannot be ignored; ‘The elite exist’ ‘media is controlled for a sinister purpose’ ‘masons exist with thier esoteric ideals’ etc.
What particular blog article are you refering to?
There are plenty of comments on each post more agreeable than not.
Qoute: “I for myself have swallowed much harder truths than Lady Gaga being a Baphtomet worshipper and the like.”
In the mind control context, what harder truths have you swallowed?
By your comment you seem to agree Lady Gaga is Baphtomet worshipper?
VC seems to like Lady Gaga as an example and i can see why: its suspect.
I am not deceived i am very open minded and i decide (not someone else as i believe in free thought) what seems logical and i am seeking answers as to why the world is how it is nowadays.
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There is also one KEY missing player who’s name haven’t been mentioned not one time. However i’m sure he’s here under one of his multiple screen names ! He was also one of the first to run to VC defense when the link to this thread was posted on VC message board ” yawnnnnn” wink !
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If your talkin about me harper i have nothing at all to do with VC, i live in the uk and i only started reading VC a month ago after looking for an ‘occult site’.
I only noticed this site today as it is a few posts down from VC’s on goolge search, and the first thing i noticed is that it says: ‘VC is a scam’ so i naturally wanted to remain objective lol.
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I fail to recognize your screen name & don’t think I noticed your comment. Sorry if you thought otherwise !
This person was around before the board reset ( when I was banned ) and is still one of the MAIN moderator trolls. Sorry for name calling ! ” Sorry if this sounds “Outlandish ” !! Will “fix” my post to be more clear !
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@harper, who is the person you are referring to?
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Fix Landish-
You mean Flix Kandish?
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I’m just waiting on one piece of communication before I present what I’ve discovered and before I do, I still need one of these blow hard parrots to please tell me how they came to the conclusion that Dantalion Jones = Toby. What I have may even be in your favor if you can show me something that is conclusive and reproducible, because what I’m going to show you is something you can reproduce yourself, something you can reverse engineer and come to the same conclusion. I’m going to teach you guys a little bit about doing research and making claims with facts supporting them. Before then, you need to come to the table with something.
We want to know if you “truthers” actually did your due diligence and come up with the conclusion you did with something other than rumor, conjecture and hearsay. You know, the arguments all you parrots have about Chaukeedaar and the other people commenting here. Ok?
So Chainmaker/Daciple, where are you?
Tweeterfist where are you?
Sarge where are you?
Layamani where are you?
Belligerent where are you?
Hartwell where are you?
Hexa where are you?
Katarzyna/Russian Nike where are you?
Show us your evidence.
Show it, or you might end up looking like even bigger puppets of a master propagandist. Someone who openly brags about studying agenda creation and propagation. Your confidence in your master is either going to double or get shattered.
So come on. This is your official challenge. Show me yours, and I’ll show you mine. Let’s see if you can dance.
If you fail to show it, you are communicating that you have none and you basically fell for some rumors, and what I’m about to show you will either confirm those rumors or shatter it.
Are you ready?
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I did not read this post before posting below.
I am at a stage of apathy towards all this now, as I have said. Anyone veteran of VC, also meaning one who’s seen where all this Toby drama has stemmed from first hand, knows that near all those people there, including myself, are not subservient to VC. At this point I don’t get how I’m branded as such either when I’ve only defended him against what I see as poor logic within this article, and that is something I would do for ANYONE really, because it’s a principle of logistics I’m defending, not so much who’s being attacked.
Needless to say, I am interested in this evidence of yours. Do tell.
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It’s simple Tweeterfist, like Harper said you are either incredibly naive or a mindless drone.
Here’s a few things you’ve said “I’m not defending him” now you say you are. Ok, fine, we all knew that already.
Then, you say you are defending him against poor logic and “conjecture” here, but that’s exactly the sort of evidence you have for your claims and accusations. It’s amazing how you don’t recognize that.
“because it’s a principle of logistics I’m defending”
Don’t use big words that you don’t know the meaning of to try and sound profound and meaningful, ok?
logisticsplural of lo·gis·tics (Noun)
– The detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies.
– The organization of moving, housing, and supplying troops and equipment.
Again you don’t see that you’re arguing against the very same reasoning process you subscribe to.
That’s why people see you as a shill and a naive dupe.
Send Daciple/Chainmaker here to present their evidence that Toby = Dantalion Jones and that VC is innocent in all of it. We know they’re reading, tell them to man up and present the evidence, and I’m not talking about a few random emails either. Something reproducible and concrete.
Less imagination…more fact.
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DIRECTED TO ”A TEAM.” You seem like a reasonable person, so I’ll bite my lip and say that my time being spent here with this post may not all be in vain.
You continually slander me for ”passing off the blame”’and are bearing false witness against others. The ONLY person I have done this with was Toby and I stand by all accusations against him. Where is my proof? The drama documenting these events were all wiped away when VC redid his forums. I was kicked and barred from Truth Files which further documents this. Toby has deleted me and I him from Skype, which holds all our messages, long ago. All of these events are coming to be a year old now, minus a few months. I can only give testimony to my story, of what I know, and God knows that I speak what I feel is the truth.
I did not create a forum for Toby, I created a forum for all the past Christian VC members because a few of them were deciding to leave and I wanted to keep in touch and give us a place free from hot debates with Muslims and other people. A refuge. Toby was given control but he turned this control against us and others. At this point, I don’t care if any of you believe me. I honestly could spend much of my time communicating with Dac and having him bring out his emails from Toby, and Henrik with his, and all the information they hold towards him too but that feels like a vain thing to me and I just aint willing to sacrifice so much of that to appease people I do not know.
So say I have no proof, say I am a fraud, I do not care. I have closure knowing I am not one and God agrees with me there. Amen.
Your other comments…
Weed is not a sin, as much as wine is not a sin. Both effect us and can LEAD to sin. They themselves are not inherently sinful however. If one has the right mind and teaching within them, they will not let these things bring them to sin against God. They are natural things given to us by God for a reason, and yes weed can be used for sin and empower it, but for me it is a sociable treat just like the wine found in the Bible.
I have taken the guilt where it is found with me. I did NOT however make accounts and feed people lies and lead them to Truth Files to stir up drama as who we assume Toby did. SOMEBODY did, and it HAD to have been someone on Truth Files. Judging by Toby’s later actions, it seems he never was on with our goals but rather some of his own. This is a theory but I feel it is the soundest.
I forgot I made that post on that forum on the age of the Earth. I have new thoughts on the issue but I find the plausibility of a 10,000 year old Earth still very possible. Slander me for my opinions if you will.
Anyways, this will be my final post, truly, as this is honestly a waste of my time I feel. I understand your opinions on me and the information I have to bring and I know I could prove you to find truth in what I have to say if I really put the effort in, but I don’t have the time to fledge towards that. People like Toby have plenty of time it seems to impersonate myself and friends on many sites and spin appealing sounding stories together for whatever reason. I however dedicate my time online to furthering my own knowledge and spreading that on the same important physical and spiritual fields to others. I have a life, a very hectic one, so I cannot even fully do this to how I wish. I must prioritize, the clock is ticking for us all.
If anyone has an issue with VC that bars them from his site, that is their qualm. I don’t have as big an issue with him to do that myself. His boards are a place I continually learn and get to exchange ideas and information with interesting people. To me that is good enough. I have not agreed with all the decisions made my mods but I cannot clean up their mess, for that I am sorry. I tried with a few people here but later found out I was being only told half the story, and I will not crusade on something I don’t trust in. I am sorry for that.
A Team, I again thank you for humbling me and your thoughts on me softening my tongue. I have a former self still to beat no doubt, I am totally aware of that. I am a human just as many as you are and my positive growth is never ending.
With that I bid you farewell and wish peace and blessing upon you, in the name of our eternal Father. Amen.
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“To me that is good enough. I have not agreed with all the decisions made my mods but I cannot clean up their mess, for that I am sorry. I tried with a few people here but later found out I was being only told half the story, and I will not crusade on something I don’t trust in.”
You refuse to listen don’t you? Again, what is the other half of the story that you claim we have not told? I’ve asked you this same thing when you made this accusation earlier, and you simply chose to ignore it. What are the “half truths” that we told you and what “truths” have been provided to you and by whom? You are clearly showing a bias as an obedient minion for VC, otherwise you would’ve returned to us explaining the alleged “half truths” we told and allowed us the opportunity to respond to the allegations. Instead, after running back to Master VC and the incompetent child-minded moderators, you chose to ignore our exchange completely. You did not even have the decency to state that you would not be providing us further assistance due to the “half truths” we allegedly told you. You are not the objective and open mediator that you seem to think you are.
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I believe you. I believe you got caught up in some stuff and it went way over your head. I can believe, you believe Toby is responsible for all of this.
I don’t think anyone is doubting this Toby guy created by VC or the Joneses, or who knows who is a jerk & turned on all of yous. The point is that you & everyone else was down for the cause until things went south.
I think you are slowly realizing that you have been played.
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and not by “Toby” as you thought or as you were told !
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Not a fraud, eh? ….
My inbox says different.
I also find it interesting that you don’t know who the A team is, yet seemingly bc he is biblically versed you feel the need to answer to him.
Meanwhile the users you were supposed to be protecting, who you are aware of and spoke to often, you virtually hit and run with deceit.
I’ll lay off of you bc its quite sad, but as io stated, don’t insinuate that anyone lied to you.
This is an open conversation and if you can’t provide the proof even that we lied to you , (which if true would be an easy way to discredit us ,no?) Then please stop with the sly insults.
Thanks
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Tweeterfist, FP is someone to learn from. Her thinking skills are much sharper than yours. She’s right you know. Just because I am Biblically versed you feel the need to exonerate and answer me, but the others you brush off. That’s inconsistent man.
Along with her request to stop with the sly insults, I implore you to stop with the victim mode too. You brought a lot of what happened in the past and now on yourself whether you were a willing or unwitting pawn, it matters little. Taking it upon yourself to carry out someone else’s dirty work is enough for you to be guilty as charged…especially since you couldn’t touch the Toby = Dantalion Jones issue… indicating you accepted it on rumor only.
Then to further promote that as truth, shows us how much you really value truth. You don’t promote something as truth just because it sounds like truth. You do your best to ensure there’s something real behind it.
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Tweeterfist,
” You continually slander me for ”passing off the blame”’and are bearing false witness against others. The ONLY person I have done this with was Toby”
Well then I can’t be slandering you if you admit to doing it. I can only point out what I’m observing in your behavior and per your admission, I was accurate in my observations.
“and I stand by all accusations against him. Where is my proof? The drama documenting these events were all wiped away when VC redid his forums.”
Ok, but then VC would have the proof and since you are “colluding” with him or have “colluded with him” to link Toby to Dantalion Jones, let him feed you with those bits and pieces of information. After all, if you’re going to put as much trust in that man as you obviously are doing, don’t you think you should ask for something concrete before going out and doing his dirty work?
“I was kicked and barred from Truth Files which further documents this.”
It documents nothing actually. No one knows why you were kicked and barred for sure, just your testimony that you were. For all we know maybe you were doing the same there that you admit you did at the VC forums the first time. I mean, you openly admit you were involved in tearing down the forums at VC the first time, so it’s obviously in you to do it again. That’s just applying a bit of common sense.
” Toby has deleted me and I him from Skype, which holds all our messages, long ago.”
So we have your testimony only. Tell us what was said in those conversations then. I assume Toby admitted he was Dantalion Jones to you? Is that it? Is this how you know? So far you’ve totally ignored that very simple challenge, it was to show us how you know Toby = Dantalion Jones and you’ve not even addressed it.
Keep in mind here, and read above, where I said I invited Dantalion Jones to this blog. I haven’t heard back yet, but I do have some information that is either going to confirm or shatter your opinion which we now understand per your admission that was gained by “conjecture” and “hearsay”.
“I did not create a forum for Toby, I created a forum for all the past Christian VC members because a few of them were deciding to leave and I wanted to keep in touch and give us a place free from hot debates with Muslims and other people. A refuge. Toby was given control but he turned this control against us and others.”
Ok wait, so you registered the domain and the software to the forums and set it all up? You did that, then gave it over to this “Toby”? Is that why you are mad at him? Why would you register a domain and buy/install software to hand it over to someone in the first place?
Is that what you are saying, because I have other information. If the other information I have is correct, you’re either severely delusional or lying.
I’ll let the others decide soon enough.
“I honestly could spend much of my time communicating with Dac and having him bring out his emails from Toby, and Henrik with his, and all the information they hold towards him too but that feels like a vain thing to me and I just aint willing to sacrifice so much of that to appease people I do not know.”
Oh so it’s Daciple and Henrik who have all these emails? Ok so they have proof of all this and we know that Daciple can take a screen shot, because Truthseer showed us screen shots from an Iphone, it seems, so he’ll be able to show screen shots of the email sender and headers all that prove what you say, correct?
If he can’t do this then he’s the one outright lying, and you’re the one outright swallowing his lies, amongst other people. Maybe it’s all about you anyway? Maybe you’re the one who shouldn’t be swallowing the lies in the first place?
This means we can further remove you and Sarge as people who have evidence, because it is now clear that both of you are relying on the words and “testimony” of someone else.
Those other people are Daciple/Chainmaker, Henrik and VC per what you wrote above.
So
Daciple/Chainmaker
Henrik
VC (not, because we know how you like to wind up little kids to talk on your behalf)
show us how you linked Toby to Dantalion Jones please, and how these emails you received further to all of that are from the same source, header screens and all…
“Weed is not a sin”
That’s sort of off the topic, but I’ve already shown you how the word of God commands you to be sober and not rely on mind altering substances. Weed alters your mind. You justify your drug use if you want. Lots of people do. It’s silly really. You’re polluting your mind and body, and I can show you a plethora of verses the specifically command you not to. I can absolutely guarantee you that your drug use is definitely part of the reason why you are easily fooled.
“but for me it is a sociable treat just like the wine found in the Bible.”
So basically you just interpret the Bible how you want since there is no mention of “weed” specifically, even if there is mention to not let your mind go astray, into drunkeness or pollute your body? How convenient.
Not only that, but the weed influences your imagination and that is probably why you’re a victim to other people’s whisperings. You’re not level headed when you are on weed, and you cannot critically think well.
That’s your business now.
“I did NOT however make accounts and feed people lies and lead them to Truth Files to stir up drama as who we assume Toby did”
Coming full circle and admitting you have conjecture and assumptions backing you now. Just like most people were saying all along. To fully remediate yourself in all of this you would just be best to admit all along that assumptions is what has been driving you all along, and what other people have.
“I did NOT however make accounts and feed people lies and lead them to Truth Files to stir up drama as who we assume Toby did. SOMEBODY did, and it HAD to have been someone on Truth Files”
Wait, everyone from Truthfiles were originally from VC? Is that correct? And you and Daciple were the big two recruiters from there? Is that right too?
You say that only someone on the new forum you created for Toby would have known that?
How so when everyone was from the old forum, per your previous admission? Then would it also not be true that people from the old board would also by privileged to that information too?
Come ON now, you can’t think that laterally?
” Judging by Toby’s later actions, it seems he never was on with our goals but rather some of his own. This is a theory but I feel it is the soundest.”
I don’t know what any of this means, it’s vague and probably deceptive at best. It has nothing to do with my original request, that you provide information on how you linked this Toby guy with Dantalion Jones. That’s what I asked, but as I also surmised, you would skip over that issue because all you have is “theory” as you say above which in actual fact is only
Conjecture
and
Speculation
based on
“Collusion with VC”
That’s basically what it boils down to, and all gleaned from the very words you have used here now and in past comments.
“I forgot I made that post on that forum on the age of the Earth. I have new thoughts on the issue but I find the plausibility of a 10,000 year old Earth still very possible. Slander me for my opinions if you will.”
So you admit you were wrong in saying all I had to go on that was what someone else told me, but I have been right all along in that all you have to make this Toby = Dantalion Jones connection is something you have been told by someone else. Rumors, whispers, conjecture, assumptions, theories.
Yep.
And you defend your use of drugs with such shoddy and irregular thinking skills.
You should right yourself now when you still have a chance, because if you keep on this path you’re going to get old quick and lose your marbles faster than you think.
Like others have said, it’s time for you to wake up. And don’t blame anyone else here for wasting your time. You came here on your own, from the beginning and have been defending one of the people who has been whispering stuff in your ears from day 1.
That person is who this blog is about, and don’t pretend you won’t be back talking here either, because you will. You really will, especially after I show you what I have found, which is either going to confirm you suspicions or place some massive doubt on them.
If it does disprove your theory, IF…then being a man of “truth” I would expect you to admit where you went wrong, learn from your mistakes and never take someone’s word for anything they tell you again without at least doing your due diligence. That means to grow up and really start thinking for yourself rather than have other people tell you what to think, which is exactly how you and Sarge are coming off right now, with Chainmaker behind you since he admitted to not even being a part of any of that original stuff but only repeating what he has been told.
but then when you make statements like these
” People like Toby have plenty of time it seems to impersonate myself and friends on many sites and spin appealing sounding stories together for whatever reason”
while also saying that it’s only a theory, not even once crossing your mind that it may be that all these “people you think are Toby” may in fact be different individuals, just like IO, FP, SilentObserver, Ayaka, TS…and company commenting here are, doesn’t bode well for your. You might be a lost cause. You don’t seem capable of separating baby from bath water, the tree’s from the forest.
” I continually learn and get to exchange ideas and information with interesting people [from the VC boards]. To me that is good enough.”
Oh I see, so long as your needs are met it doesn’t matter what happens to anyone else? That is what you are communicating after all. I get it. I really do. For someone who bids us all adieu in the name of brotherly love, what really matters most is you yourself first, everyone else second.
” I have not agreed with all the decisions made my mods but I cannot clean up their mess, for that I am sorry. I tried with a few people here but later found out I was being only told half the story, and I will not crusade on something I don’t trust in. I am sorry for that.”
So speaking up when only having half the story is a regular occurrence for you Tweeterfist?
No surprise there.
Oh and that’s not slander buddy. Learn about words proper use before you use them in a victims plea for yourself.
Man up and be truly responsible for your mistakes, rather than pass them off as not your problem because your current needs are being met.
and stop believing everything you are sold. The 10,000 year old Earth is merely one example, but in the past weeks of posting comments here it’s certainly a very consistent part of what you do.
Lastly, you have stones calling Chaukeedaar out for something that you are guilty of, and YOU ARE GUITLY OF IT. I’ve shown exactly how now more than a dozen times.
Wake up before it’s too late.
Clear your mind.
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Tweetfirst- Honestly it’s hard not to laugh at you. You handed over an entire site that you created, only to have YOUR site taken from you. That’s some funny you know what. I won’t laugh because I feel bad for you.
2nd I always assumed weed was not a sin, but as ” The “A” Team pointed out………..
The thing is, it doesn’t matter if you smoke/smoked weed. We are not to judge. I do many imperfect things, but that doesn’t stop me from giving praise & thanks to the most high.
3rd- You lost me again acting as if you are learning so much on VC. From 12-14 year olds
?
I haven’t found a good piece on that site since the old forums. You need more people with that.
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I haven’t found a good piece on that site until I recently found a link to this site. Other than that it’s like a middle school lunch room/ recess !
The “A” Team gave you the best advice. ” Admit where you went wrong, learn from your mistakes & never accept what is spoon fed to you.
If you won’t admit to us, I hope you will at least admit to yourself. It’s okay we all mess up & make not so good decisions ! It’s what you do after the fact that counts !
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Harper, he’s actually lying about creating anything. He just recruited. I’ve found out some information about that too in the last few days. He’s actually a shill for VC now and is repeating what he’s being spoon fed like a good little boy. I just played along with his lies because I wanted to hear exactly how he created anything, but you’ll notice a trend with him. He’ll appeal to your ego by stating that you’re right and thanking you for exposing some of his lies, while layering a few more lies and playing victim, like he didn’t know better. It’s true on one level, he doesn’t seem to know better, but he’s bought all the lies told to him without thinking about them.
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My comments were also deleted after being posted. It’s more or less 5. It was about Lady Gaga’s You & I, the time the song was promoted, the saxophonist in the video died. Was he a sacrifice? I tried posting it twice, and then I asked why was he doing it to me? And then I asked him if he’s a disinfo. Of course, those were also deleted. From then on, I refrain from commenting, and Unlike before, I am only reading his works for Entertainment purposes only.
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Hmmmmmmm.
Very interesting, reminds me of the time before I joined when th end comments on amy winehouse were mysteriously reset after sooo many people had liked a comment suggesting the true motivations of , and answere to, the illuminati..
thanks for your insight.
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A team- “You forgot to mention that a majority of Sarge’s posts are one liners and mostly are repetitive “Christianity is fake and has been infiltrated” “Jesus was not God”, and “The Triune God is false” Then he redirects people to the same pro Islamic website each time. I have no problem with him or anyone else having an opinion like that. It’s their right after all, but it’s his same repetitive stance that makes it boring and him a mindless drone.
Hey buddy face it, every Muslim is going to have that stance, but it does not mean we spend our time posting the same rhetoric. Because i don’t, and i will be blunt in reassuring everyone of how little you know about the boards, especially for labelling me as doing such things, when i have only done so once or twice. I never redirect anyone to any site. Your either mistaking me for someone else, or your just being bluntly dishonest, because you can, and most probably will get away with it.
Femalepharoe, i can call you out as much as i like,you shoudlve understood by now that i don’t hold back from anything. And I understood your persona very well, from the little exchanges we had. Your not worthy of any kind of attention.
Your little analogy was absolutely pointless. Just like your posts on VC. I’ve mentioned this before, and alot of people keep skipping the fact that VC WAS CHALLENGED ON THE OLD BOARDS. AND HE ACCEPTED THE CHALLENGE AND DEFENDED BEING CALLED A DISINFO AGENT. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO KEEP BRINGING UP THE SAME ACCUSATIONS. IT RUINED HIS SITE YOU MORONS. THE BOARDS WERE SWAMPED. THERE WERE NO PERTINENT DISCUSSIONS ANY LONGER.
Besides, he has taken measures NOW by setting up threads and ask me topics, so if you have problems you can take them up there.
All of my conversations with Toby were on the old boards through PM. Daciple and other’s may have evidence. I don’t.
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Sarge you obviously don’t take time to read what people tell you. You can have whatever stance you want, that’s cool and I already admitted that. It’s your prerogative and right… It’s your repetitive one liners and repetitive pasting of the same website where you get your ideas from that make you predictable and boring. That’s all I said. “Christianity is fake because it’s been infiltrated”, “Christianity argues with itself all the time”, because there’s no such thing as warring factions within Islam. I digress though because I don’t want you VC puppets to take this on a new tangent and pollute the comments here with something off topic.
Oh and yes, here’s the admission that has been obvious from the beginning
“—- others may have the evidence —– I don’t”
😀
There you go. You just admitted that you believe what you believe because someone else told you.
That’s bad science
That’s bad critical thinking
That’s a bad way to go through life
I’ll show you why soon, but thanks for admitting what we already knew was true.
For the others, I’m going to wait a little while so they can tell me how they came to their conclusions.
Oh and this was funny Sarge “Femalepharoe Your not worthy of any kind of attention.” While you called her out about 6 times and are still responding to her. You’re like a walking contradiction buddy.
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Ok two down. Tweeterfist and Sarge have admitted they only believe what they have been told. For the other hard questions, they go silent.
Now, it’s up to Daciple/Chainmaker, Henrik and the others mentioned earlier like Belligerent, Katarzyna/Russian Nika/ Hartwell, Hexa and the other clones sent in here to tell us who’s been telling them naughty things. 🙂
Can’t wait because you know, even in their silence they’re either right or we’re right and they’ve all been lied to. Soon we’re all going to know for sure what it is.
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I don’t understand what your asking for? What kind of proof are you after?
I’m not trying to flee from any questions, I told you, that my conversations were on the old boards and no longer exist.
When I said I felt Toby was credible, I thought he was just another Christian that wanted to create a site for the banned members. I never thought there was more to it. Which there obviously was, considering the amount of effort he went through to post on various blogs under member titles to discount the site. Tell me, who else would be responsible for this?
He had a vendetta against some member’s, before and after the VC drama.
In relation to Femalepharoe, I meant that her VC posts deserved no attention. If you understood the context of my response, that wouldn’t be so hard for you to grasp.
And what do you mean by you believe in what somebody told you? I came to my own conclusions having known Toby for months on VC, no-one told me anything.
Again what proof are you after? Anyone who was present on the old boards will tell you the same thing, Toby was behind the shut down of the site. Everybody else that is posting here are irrelevant as they don’t have that pretence.
“”It’s your repetitive one liners and repetitive pasting of the same website where you get your ideas from that make you predictable and boring. That’s all I said. “Christianity is fake because it’s been infiltrated”, “Christianity argues with itself all the time”, because there’s no such thing as warring factions within Islam.””
What website? Don’t generalise. I hardly ever post information from websites. I normally quote scripture and give my personal responses. That’s my posting style, what the hell are you on about. And what do you expect a muslim to say on a board filled with intolerant Christians taking every chance they get to slam other’s down. Your opinion is irrelevant because your Christian, bias is clouding your observation skills.
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Lol. Intollerant people trying to slam people down?
Coming from the boy who is trying his damnedest to harrass and antagonize a woman so that he may run thr chance of getting his ever fragile who boosted.
Even going as far as to call me ‘worthless’ . Are you sure your behavior is only reactionary?
In any regard, you don’t have to tell me about your ‘posting style” I know your agressive facade is something you take great pride in. It’s not impressive.
And though you like to pretend like you know whats good, rest assured that if i chose to be as ‘brash” as you i could make you cry with little to know effort; such is the Achilles heel of the insecure who overcompensates.
You talk shit like a pissy 2nd grader with lice; incoherent and angry.
🙂
Bit thats not my MO..
..but right back at it Pray tell, why would you , a muslim brown person tired of Christian bashing follow a malign racist to a board set up for Christian “refuge”??? Especially since these chracteristics were identified before he shown his “true colors”???
More aggression to over compensate? More brainwashed drivel? Or is there something more sinister with these contradictory and inexplicable actions?
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* Ever fragile ego boosted
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Exactly. Why’d you EVER want to follow Toby?
Probability of Toby’s existence- 0
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I have a question. Are you all disputing the fact Toby existed, or are you saying he isn’t to blame. Like I said I was banned before the reset. There was a Toby, but is he responsible for the madness idk.
It makes sense to me regardless to who created him . We already know SN’s were created to stir the pot so it wouldn’t be that far fetched that Toby was one of them.
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If Toby existed, he was VC.
My screenshot above proves it
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When he’s not trolling he’s using silly net-speak. Like I said, he’s boring and he obviously isn’t very sharp.
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that last comment was referring to Sarge
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Sarge,
How come you don’t read well?
You just admitted this
“—- others may have the evidence —– I don’t”
That’s all anyone needs to know about you.
“I don’t understand what your asking for? What kind of proof are you after? I’m not trying to flee from any questions, I told you, that my conversations were on the old boards and no longer exist.”
Common sense and street smarts elude you don’t they Sarge?
I’ll try to simplify it for you.
You and everyone else say Toby = Dantalion Jones based on something someone told you.
I asked for you to show us proof for these claims.
You say you have none.
So you’re a puppet repeating what you are told.
That’s just one of the many ways you contradict yourself.
Here’s more….
You say that Toby was malign and racist. This was apparently during his time on the VC forums since you now say your conversations with him existed there, correct?
Then you say even after the other forums went down, you still believed he was legit.
Do you not realize the contradiction in that? You say Racist during your experience with him at VC then you say afterwards you still believed he was legit, which makes it safe to say that everything else you believed about him after the fact is what you’ve been told about him? It’s a shame to waste a brain like that Sarge.
You say Toby has been emailing Daciple? Where you there? Did you see it? Do you know for sure or are you going on Daciple’s word? Do you know for sure that “Toby” is absolutely separate from the VC. There’s a lot of believable things the “Jones” said here, but do you know for sure they’re telling the truth and/or VC is telling the truth. No you don’t. Therefore taking it as fact is bad science.
You have no real concept of what facts are comprised of, obviously.
If any of this is true and Daciple/Chainmaker can prove it. Show the emails and the headers. Prove it was from Toby / Dantalion. Or at least tell us how you made the conclusion.
“Which there obviously was, considering the amount of effort he went through to post on various blogs under member titles to discount the site. Tell me, who else would be responsible for this?”
You are thick you know that?
How do you know it was one person? I’ve been asking you this all along. The answer is that you cannot think for yourself and speculate based on other people’s accusations, otherwise how can you possibly suggest that all these people below, in the links that Willy Nelson provided, are all the work of one person? ( go look it up Sarge and try to think about how stupid that sounds). Are you really that naive?
“I came to my own conclusions having known Toby for months on VC, no-one told me anything.”
People told you that one person was emailing them. People told you that he was the one responsible for posting criticism on multiple blog sites. You didn’t dig that stuff up on your own, you fool. You’ve been conditioned by repetition to believe in a scare crow, a straw man, a “villain” because you were told. That’s how you came to these conclusions. The fact that you can believe that 2-3 dozen people who all have the same conclusion is the work of one man shows how limited your thinking is, because in your mind it can’t possibly be that many people have the same criticism about Vigilant Citizen can it?
Again, so you’re just basing your belief that Toby = Dantalion on what?
“Again what proof are you after?”
Maybe you should go take a basic science class that will explain to you what tangible proof is vs speculative proof. FP tried to make it simple for you above. Apparently she did not simplify it enough?
” Anyone who was present on the old boards will tell you the same thing, Toby was behind the shut down of the site.”
I thought Tweeterfist admitted he did most of the recruiting, and Daciple. Yes, I know…people these days hate to take responsibility. It’s always someone else’s fault.
You haven’t told us what Toby/Dantalion did to you. You’re just repeating accusations without giving explanations. You’re a dupe Sarge. You’re not bright at all.
“your opinion is irrelevant because your Christian”
lol
That’s a great reason to write off anyone’s opinion, because what you perceive them to be. That’s just classic case of not being able to throw out the baby with the bath water. Nice way of demonstrating bigoted and prejudiced thinking, then you talk about others being biased. Writing off someone’s opinion based on creed is no different that doing so based on race or skin color. You’ve come full circle too Sarge.
Let me ask you one question. Who benefits from the Toby is a Villain and behind all attacks on VC myth?
If you can, try to think about that. If not, keep running your mouth because you’re about to look like one of the dumbest posters from that site in a little bit.
Daciple/Chainmaker…big bad warriors for Christ. Come show us how you connected the dots that Toby = Dantalion and is a big bad dude that has nothing to do with VC but is VC’s nemesis. Show us the emails Daciple/Chainmaker. Show us the headers. Show us how it’s one man, one man that you are obsessed with.
Waiting….
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These are the links, supposedly and according to Sarge they’re all “Toby’s” doing
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1066721/pg1
http://illuminatisymbolism.wordpress.com/category/vigilant-citizen/
http://www.taraariano.com/im-caught-in-a-bad-romance-with-the-vigilant-citizen/
http://yoy50.wordpress.com/2011/09/05/the-vigilant-citizen-the-website-is-an-agent/
http://newworldorder.dyndns-web.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=761&start=130
http://equalpartyusa.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/vigilantcitizen-flushes-equalpartyusa-down-memory-hole/
http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/2010/01/05/10-questions-with-the-vigilant-citizen/
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111002141918AAohj6z
There are a lot of individual opinions being posted, but because they’re all the same according to the VC puppets, they’re the work of one man.
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Sorry, The “A” Team, I had to find your post in the spam folder first because of the many links…
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So what does everyone here think of VC’s latest article; the corey one?
Could be to bring visitors to his/her site, but what gets me is he sure slanders the illuminati a lot for someone who people say is a ‘disinfo agent’…
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You know, disinfo agents do slam the Illuminati. However, they’ll never give a solution.
For example, all of VC’s fear mongering, has he ever given any type of solution?
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Ladies a shill.
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I agree.
i read the previous comments and the posting style matches a particular VC member’s
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So far we know that Tweeterfist and Sarge are full of it, in that all that they have repeated here is hearsay and conclusions they came to out of assumptive knowledge. That is to say that none of it was anything they could prove in so far as Toby = Dantalion Jones or that Toby is responsible for every piece of criticism directed towards Vigilant Citizen. For these charges they are guilty of mud headed thinking and defaulting on their due diligence to get facts before talking. They’re not alone though. They are examples of almost everyone you know in life one way or another. People are conditioned to believe what they are told. That the VC is taking advantage of this built-in phenomenon is a different point, that it exists is irrefutable. What I would love nothing more than is to truly help people become thinkers. I don’t think what I’m about to show people will automatically do that on a large level, not at all. It will demonstrated that most people hardly bat an eye when they’re told something that “just makes sense” and in that respect we can learn from this coming example that one should really never just take what they are spoon fed as fact. All knowledge gained is responsible to the one gaining the knowledge. When you take knowledge from a spoon without proving it to yourself, you never own it. VC says he encourages thinking. He acts differently though.
Rhubard, slandering the illuminati doesn’t prove your claims. Most people noted that there is a lot of believable information in his articles. Chaukeedaar explained it to you above quite clearly, so I won’t repeat it.
Remember, according to these people “Toby/Dantalion” slandered Gnostics while now claiming him to be one. How does that make sense?
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Still waiting for the coward Daciple/Chainmaker, or Henrik Ibsen, or Katarzyna or anyone else VC wants to send in on his behalf to tell us how Toby = Dantalion Jones and how this one-man-team badass is responsible for multiple blogs, forums as well as show us all these emails, headers and all.
Show us.
Show us.
Show us.
If you can…
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No one cares about you.
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Femalepharoe, your hated on the boards for a reason, you snarky arrogant tool.
Your description of me is colourful, but it’s merely your supposition based on my avatar. You can’t back up anything you say, however I assure you many will agree with me about your fallbacks. You were just mad because I was probably the only one there standing in the way of you and your incoherent dishonest posting. You even tried getting me banned. You’re a fake, and every word is a lie. But of course, the other fools here will agree with you, despite the fact none of them know shit.
Who is this A team character? What proof does he want. Almost as though he want’s me to provide a statement from Toby saying he is dantalion jones. You’re a complete moron, and this little investigation of your’s is hilarious. So again, what would be proof to you?
I only said your opinion is irrelevant because you were hinting at my clichéd “Muslim” posts. Of course you would disagree. Can you decipher a sentence without floating out of context, ever? And here you are still posting nonsense like you UNDERSTAND. lol
None of you do. Why did I follow Toby? Because I believed VC was a disinfo agent, and then the site shut down. I went with him.
I fell for it like all of you have now. Even though we had opposing beliefs in God, I found him to be honest about the situation with VC. So I went along. I left his site, when I realized I was the only Muslim there. But then, the fallout on his site occurred. And numerous people advised that he was using his power to censor everything against his agenda. Then these blogs come up, with false testimonies under the names of Daciple, Henrik, the same people the fallout happened with. Who else would be RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS?
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Ha.
I didnt care what the agents, dim wits, and jerks thought then so you know I don’t care now
Telling someone I’m going to report them if they keep calling me names and then reporting..lol.. After they keep calling me names , is hardly “trying to get them banned”
But of course your crude and black and white brain can only deal and absolutes.
Sarge gives us a perfect look into the rampant cesspool of immorality that is encouraged at the VC , that is of course if he is real.
So the fact that someone was racist and “malign” was not at all an indicator TO YOU that they are un worthy to follow?
So youre an Uncle Tom then?
……You can google the reference if youre unaware…
You say all “I know about you is your avatar” . So the pictures that you keep touting as yourself are not you? So you are a liar?
Or you just threw that in there because youre running out of ammo? Down to a corkscrew and twine , huh?
I wouldn’t be suprised , there are more straw men over there than a garden. The two pics of hartwell and shannon….lol.. Right…..
I’m used to the straw men attacking my internet persona on that sight.
In one of my first posts I detailed just how strangely hostile that environment was, more than a few people , even long time lurkers, posted there thoughts;
That the sight members try their best to distract you and tear you down.
In hindsight, it makes a lot of sense.
sarge, why are you so obssessed with me?
Do me a favor and turn to your right , or rather get off of your knees, and tell “Vigilant” I said hi
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“So the fact that someone was racist and “malign” was not at all an indicator TO YOU that they are un worthy to follow?”
— Not only that, but even after the fact he still “thought he was legit” until someone told him otherwise. lol
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Sarge says, ” You can’t back up anything you say”
Sarge earlier said, ““—- others may have the evidence —– I don’t”
Sarge somehow is incapable of drawing conclusions from such conflicting behaviors he has.
I’ll let Sarge talk for himself to draw the appropriate conclusion, ” You’re a complete moron”
“So again, what would be proof to you”
Here’s education for you, although I’m 100% confident it can’t penetrate your skull.
” I found him to be honest about the situation with VC. So I went along. I left his site, when I realized I was the only Muslim there. But then, the fallout on his site occurred. And numerous people advised that he was using his power to censor everything against his agenda. Then these blogs come up, with false testimonies under the names of Daciple, Henrik, the same people the fallout happened with. Who else would be RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS?”
1 – He found him honest
2 – He went to his site
3 – He was the only Muslim
4 – Numerous people “ADVISED HIM” that he was using his power to censor everything agianst his agenda
*** that one I found the most funny, because Kelso here can’t see that this is what Vigilant Citizen is doing***
What was his agenda? Since you don’t know, can you get your “advisors” to tell you what to think about it again?
5. Then these blogs come up,
Actually no, the majority of those blogs existed before any fallout. So are you saying Toby/Dantalion pre-empted all of this and created a plethora of blogs to do damage control after the fact. Your abilities to reason through seemingly simply scenario’s is so infantile.
6. with false testimonies under the names of Daciple, Henrik, the same people the fallout happened with
“Who else is responsible for this?”
It must be painful being you.
Go back to FP’s post about Smoking Guns… because soon your little ideas are going to be shattered.
I’m just waiting for the cowards that spread all the Pro VC idea’s and helped create the “Toby” straw man to show up and tell us how Toby = Dantalion Jones, since you have no clue what constitutes proof and evidence other than what — someone else told me —
You’re a child amongst men Sarge. Nay, a babe!
So like I said earlier Sarge, obviously it was Daciple/Chainmaker, Henrik, VC and a few of the other puppets who “educated you” on all of this. Send them in. Tell them to man up and show us their proof.
Man up…
If they can….
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I don’t know, I just happened to view this page, saw your posts and decided to drop my 2 cent’s. Mainly because you were def not what your made out to be here. So why were you banned anyway?
It was all about the picture pharoe. I had it up in the early days when I first joined and people would always target that instead of what I really say, because it’s convenient for them. Your accusations are nothing new to me. People have seen me on Camera, though I don’t understand what point your trying to make here.
I’m certainly not a liar. I have told you people everything I know. If you haven’t noticed, I was targeted here even though I was never a part of this conversation. People chose to slab me into the peanut gallery of VC. And my post count is evidence that I don’t spend all my time there. In fact, only the past few months I have, before that I was never a regular. I was only there because I enjoyed being laidback amongst all the seriousness of Religions section, and mostly to talk with Failboat.
You guys stipulated me to join this convo by attacking me, and I’ve given you what I know.
And I’m certainly obsessed with you pharoe. I’m head over heels.
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“Mainly because you were def not what your made out to be here.”
So you jealous, huh?
lol.
Like the middle school girl in training bras, You saw a sister getting some props, a little shine and respect, and didnt like it? lol.
“Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?”
That’s Angelou , you may be reading her in 8th grade literature soon.
But you didn’t answer, are you an Uncle Tom? BC i don’t know why you would follow a racist unless you had some serious mental issues.
Which is not out of the question.
But heres something to ponder:
I’ve heard the rumors that “Daciple” and “Henrick” are often impersonated. Here’s my questions again, HOW did they know?
Indeed I would have never known about this site had not a mod posted it. You would never have known either.
On all of the sites I’ve read questioning VC a normal conversation ensues and then comes in Daciple and Henrik (or whomever) “imposters” only for the “REAL ones” to come in – sometimes even minutes later.
Do you know how improbable that is on the world wide web?
Obviously, these people are not being “lied on” by Toby!
If they are not doing it THEMSELVES to cause confusion,
whomever is whispering into their ears that “someone is pretending to be you on __site” is indeed the culprit. And who is that? Vigilant , thats who.
Anyway, did you guys ask me why I was banned AGAIN?
Shills aren’t very bright..reading comprehension is off…
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FP, you’re using logic and reason. It won’t work with the type of people who believe in everything they’re told, despite the fact that they will claim they have “logic” as if it’s a tangible thing, no less, lol.
They’re asking why you were banned because master hasn’t told them yet, so they don’t know.
Sarge, remember the argument your controllers have against “Toby”, he banned them when things weren’t going towards his agenda. Still we don’t know what “agenda” that was because all of a sudden all the cowards went silent, or sent you in to take a few lickings on their part, but you fail to see that the majority of users here are criticizing VC for doing exactly that.
Wait one minute, you mean Vigilant Citizen is acting in the same way that they/you claim Toby was?
What a surprise
waiting for the light to go on in Sarge’s head
waiting….waiting…..waiting……waiting…………….
In the meantime, send your controllers back in to give us their “testimony” because I’m nearly done and I’m just waiting for these “warriors of Christ” to man up and tell us it’s more than just their imagination.
Remember, less imagination…more fact….
Since you don’t know what that last word is, I’ll let my pal the wise geek tell you about it:
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-fact-and-opinion.htm
Let us go back to “stipulating” you into doing things in while you educate yourself.
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“Who else would be RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS?”
— who stands to gain from having a personal villain that can be used to silence anyone who (and I’m using a quote from you here):
“And numerous people advised that he was using his power to censor everything against his agenda.”
— In case you haven’t noticed there are six people here, and dozens more on other blogs who are all saying they were either banned, or their comments deleted when it “went against his agenda.”
Lateral thinking Sarge…lateral….
stip·u·late1 [stip-yuh-leyt] Show IPA verb, -lat·ed, -lat·ing.
verb (used without object)
1.
to make an express demand or arrangement as a condition of agreement (often followed by for ).
“You guys stipulated me to join this convo by attacking me,”
Huh, what? Who made a demand or arrangement with you as a condition of agreement to join this convo by attacking you?
Who attacked you?
You’re like the other weak intellects that think throwing a big word in a sentence here or there make you look smart and therefore more believable.
It’s not working.
Now be a good messenger boy and go back to your masters and tell them to man up…
Show us the goods 😉
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“knock ’em out the box rick”
its really unbelievable that this guy, VC, has went through such elaborate lengths to mentally control these people. And he reports on illuminati “mind control”
Talk about “sinister”. Yikes!!!
I can’t argue with the shills anymore bc they are just too lazy.
You keep at it though, I’ll be waiting to see what they will bring to the table if anything.
..do try not to be too hard, after they realize that they have been duped
AGAIn this will make it what …3 times by the same person?? lol..
I don’t know if their little hearts could take it.
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FP: “its really unbelievable that this guy, VC, has went through such elaborate lengths to mentally control these people. And he reports on illuminati “mind control”
We’re going to learn a little more about how much interest VC has in the subject of “mind control” very soon….
These people never really learned the parable of two masters, but VC sure does know how to use it, I tell ya….
“No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.”
VC was their master, then “Tony” then VC again. This begs the question, was Toby set up to fail in the first place?
😉
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*Toby that is…
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Quote:
Femalepharoe, your hated on the boards for a reason, you snarky arrogant tool.
Funny, I could say the same about you.
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Nah truthseer, people just hate you on the board, not Sarge.inb4 Toby’s multiple personality disorder comes in with more bullshit. And FemalePharoe, get a life, some education, and stop being so damn racist.
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Hi Sarge
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Hartwell is gay. I know this because someone told me on an IRC chat group. It’s true because it just makes sense, just look at the guy, how can he not be gay?
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So we ve had people come in talking about “niggers”, “white trash” and “jews, plus people pretending that “stipulate” is a slang term in the english speaking australia.
The vc defenders did not have a problem with this, but somehow I am the racist in need of an education….according to them…
your master should draft another ” insult script”
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It is not hard for a single person to create a number of account’s on different forums and spread the same information. Toby had more than one account on VC when he was active. I actually spoke to three different account’s through PM every time he was banned. All these account’s had the Join dates that were spread around the same week. He knew he would be getting into trouble, so he needed alternates.
Why did I follow a racist? I shouldn’t have, but I was more concerned with exposing VC than anything, and he was too. We shared that objective, and it went from there. Though, I joined his site mainly as I wanted to know what other’s thought about VC and the site shutting down, as most member’s fled there. I didn’t stay long.
“stipulate” has “make” and “demand” as synonyms. It’s used freely in this manner here, Australia.
“Who attacked you”- SilentObserver along with truthseer’s and his troll bot’s. I would have had no incentive to join this, otherwise.
To this “A” team character, again, what your asking for can not be adequately proven, you have witness acounts, but they seem to mean nothing. Even though there is a large number of people who could vouch for it. VC creating Toby could be true, though why would he spend so much time talking to a single person there, me?
What make’s you think Toby failed?
Are you reading anything “A” Team. I’ve said this about 3 times now. VC did not shut down or ban people for questioning his motives. Toby did when he set up his site. VC is only doing it now, because this has gotten out of hand and is ruining the reputation of his blog. BUT he has taken measures and openly embraces questions in specific threads he had put up, that can be seen on any SUBSECTION. UNDERSTAND? Its not the same. Jesus Christ, either your playing around like a sure fire Toby, or your just slow. Lol
Femalepharoe, what was the site you commented on that got you banned? And why was there an uproar against you from poster’s. I missed this. You don’t have to answer?
Truthseer, I got nothing but absolute pity for you. Seeing your posts in religions were calming, but then you fell out and did all sorts of funny shit that made no sense. Depression? Suicide threads? Saying you’d rape? And above all, the ridiculous trolling antics, that were not funny at all. And still here.
Just like to make a note, that probably the only thing I agree with here is the fact that the site does certainly aid the desensitisation of Illuminati symbolism. If your asking why I still post there if I don’t agree, it’s mainly to defend Islam in Religions. The board itself, unlike the articles, is rich with diverse viewpoints and information. Another reason to stay.
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Show me one post I made regarding rape.
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That was Adam C Madison threatening to rape Shannon (Who might actually deserve it but that’s another matter)
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“BUT he has taken measures and openly embraces questions in specific threads he had put up, that can be seen on any SUBSECTION. UNDERSTAND?”
Embraces questions? That’s hilarious and baltantly untrue…people have been banned WITHOUT WARNING for asking such questions and were never told that specific threads would address them. The thread he made to “embrace” questioning is a joke in itself. I (and others), have also sent emails to VC with questions and if you just so happen to get a response, it consists of a few words barely strung together coherently. He likes to promote the illusion of openness and freedom on his forum but behind the scenes he shuts down anyone who questions him…apparently his less observant users are falling for it…
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He can’t because he heard it from someone else. Sarge…you’re dumb bro, no really you are.
While everyone’s waiting for the bombs to drop, does anyone want to know about how Chainmaker Kettner and Justin Daciple met in jail?
That means they’re separate people right? Not necessarily, lol.
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Truthseer:
“That was Adam C Madison threatening to rape Shannon (Who might actually deserve it but that’s another matter)”
Even the MTV drones wouldn’t say shit like that.
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I didn’t attack you once, sir. However, you did
Quote:
Truthseer is obviously suffering from depression. Femalepharoe is an obnoxious, self centred gronk.
Nykballa is a pissy traitor.
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“Nykballa is a pissy traitor.”
I just caught onto something. Didn’t VC call all those users that joined the renegade forum traitors? Is that sort of thinking being dripped down amongst his followers?
Here’s how it works.
Question VC = You traitor and need to be silenced!
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Uhm, can you explain how Toby was racist to you. Obviously that’s bullshit Sarge, or you wouldn’t have followed it. Like a good little lap dog you’ve revised your historical perspective with new programming, or you wouldn’t have said even after the fact you thought he was legit.
That is, you took the bait, swallowed and are hooked on the new kool aid being fed to you.
If there is one thing roundly obvious and stipulated in your discourse here, it’s that you have absolutely no clue what objective thinking is. None whatsoever. It would be a waste of time to try and explain it to you because you may never know. A Team is wasting his time.
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This is what most VC’ers are like:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9411&sid=0ac1e7b2240638315077b5ebb699d8e4
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Does anyone else want to explain to Sarge what he is missing, or is that just a wasted effort since he’s obviously stupid?
Sarge, just cut to the chase. He/She’s asking you if you believe Dantalion Jones is also this Toby guy, and has asked others to provide their proof. Just answer the question. Do you believe he is, yes or no.
Stipulate is not used the way you mention in Australia. I am from Australia. You’re an idiot. Even if it was, no one made or demanded any of us to be here, unless the others are right and VC demanded you to defend him. If not, you’re hear on your own free will you dumb fuck.
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Just answer the question so we can see what he has. Obviously you’re interested.
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I was wondering the same….
I have my share of friends in Australia and I’ve never heard them use stipulate this way
(Waits for The Real Sarge or Not me Sarge to come and say I’m not Sarge since that is what always happens)
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Sarge is stupid, what else? He got caught out using a word in the wrong way and then lies about it’s use in some part of the world that he thinks no one else here is from?
On Chainmaker Kettner and Justin Daciple
T[he]y got banned from multiple other sites too with t[he]ir same routine.
This is one of them:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread527156/pg4
But two #boys meeting in jail# and finding Jesus #together#. It’s a very heart warming story.
Here’s another with typical Chainmaker/Daciple slandering Islam again
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=114906&page=13
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=114906&page=11
Don’t worry fellow Muslims, Chainmaker also hates Jews too, and those who don’t agree with his estimation of scripture are Satanists. We’re all in good company.
Here’s a laffer, Sarge believes in these guys. lol.
Oh wait, those characters in the links there are obviously Toby since the guys doesn’t sleep, eat or do anything else than impersonate people on the internet for no good apparent reason. That just makes sense.
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Yes ,
And they came to reunite on the vc message board to preach their own colorful version of the Gospel.
Perhaps it was the article exposing symbolism in the Dave La Chapelle ad compaign for that new Dooney & Bourke handbag ive been eyeing that “stipulated” them into joining the site.
(joking I think it was Gucci…lol )
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FP are you stipulating Sarge into carrying around a Gucci handbag by any chance?
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Kittie pinkiepie=toby=dantalion=a team=artisan=everyone on this thread except for FP, ts, Sarge, Belligerent, KTG, Ayaka, nykballa, and tweet
hahahaha you’re a punk bitch. why’ve you always got to create so many accounts? Are you worried that someone might find out what your doing? bahahahaha the more you do, the more you create for yourself to get busted by the proper authorities, keep setting your own traps
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lol, say hi to yo mama 4 me bitch…
Sarge: “He knew he would be getting into trouble, so he needed alternates.”
Sarge’s Moma: “Are you worried that someone might find out what your doing”
I’m not Toby, but you are stupid. On second thought maybe I am, maybe we all are, maybe Toby is omniscient, omnipotent and omni-maximus. You didn’t mention Chaukeedaar Sarge, so he’s in the inclusive list. You also didn’t mention Chainmaker, Willy Nelson, KTG, Katarzyna, Fritz Springmeier, Ibsen, Daciple (The Real, The Fake or the Second comig). You forgot to mention Rhubarb who is supporting VC, but then if Toby is VC that makes sense, or does it? No mention of Pluto or IO, Ayako, Amadeus, Shannon Darko, IAMANATHEIST, Monica “Lewinsky” Hill, Rekamniahc, Ambroise, Raelyn…yep they’re all Toby too.
Why would I, The Skitty Kitty Kat, be worried someone will find out what I’m doing when what I’m doing is commenting on this blog?
—-commenting on a blog—- Ohh, I’m shivering in my boots.
Why would anyone be worried Sarge? What proper authorities are going to bust me you mental sloth? What “traps” am I setting. Wait, do Police in Australia also do thinks differently when one is stipulated into doing things against their will? Are you going to get them to reach over into all these other countries and extradite these people because of “traps” you set for them you numbskull?
*ring* *ring* “Wallaby Police Station, can I help you?”
Sarge: “Yes sir, there’s this guy Toby…I know about him because who else would do it?”
Police Officer: “Do what?
Sarge: “Impersonate all these people on different blogs”
Police Officer: “Ok?”
Sarge: “Yeah, he’s trying to get the Vigilant Citizen website shut down and so he’s made 2 dozen blog sites and a few forums and is telling people that the Vigilant Citizen is a disinformation specialist working for da Illuminati!”
Police Officer: “Do you need us to call you an ambulance Sir, have you run out of your medication and are there sharp objects around?”
….transfers call to Emergency services…
Sarge, is there a carrot hanging over a stick in front of your nose?
It’s 7:05am in Perth Australia at the moment. I’m going to go out for a run. See you later, hater.
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LOL!
Thank you for that great laugh, dear Kittie!
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hahahahahahahahahahhaaaaa
oh my god.
ahhhh. that was the stipulation of the week.
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Since the VC cheerleaders consider all of us to be this “Toby” character,
then this is “Toby”, too:
http://www.facebook.com/Tobytheturtle
and this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tobuscus
along with them:
http://www.yelp.ca/biz/tobys-famous-eatery-toronto
http://www.yelp.com/biz/tobys-homemade-ice-cream-arlington
http://www.ourwonderfulpets.com/tributes/28-the-story-of-toby-the-wonderdog
http://www.yelp.com/biz/tobys-restaurant-and-sports-bar-cleveland
http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/tobys-public-house/
http://labyrinth.wikia.com/wiki/Toby_Williams
http://www.facebook.com/toby.waller
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Toby-from-Paranormal-Activity-3/165928610164982
http://orangefoamfinger.com/2011/10/07/tobys-estate-grand-opening/
Remember everyone, they are all the same individual and they want to shut VC down.
Just kidding!
Talk about paranoia.
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Oh, and this really is
truthseer:
me (Ayaka):
femalepharoe:
Pluto:
Io:
Aeon Flux:
http://otakudata.org/gallery/var/albums/Aeon-Flux/Aeon_Flux_09.JPG?m=1280696613
Chaukeedaar:
Kittie PinkiePie:
The “A” Team:
If you believe this comment, you will believe anything.
I can certainly tell you we look nothing like any of these images.
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Chuckie, awesome 🙂
That little guy really looks like when I’ve discovered a new conspiracy, he, he 😉
And Saturn on his shirt – priceless!
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lol @ the links you put up Ayaka
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Actually that Tobuscus guy is definitely very funny. I wonder if he’d be willing to do a story on Vigilant Citizen. Would put the shills in hyseria, lol. I think I’ll ask him if he can do that :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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So according to your severely limited logic and reasoning skills, any former or current user on here who you cannot personally account for knowing must be “Toby,” therefore if someone you don’t know, has a legitimate concern about VC and his forum, you can simply brush them off by quickly running to the “It’s Toby” excuse without imploring your mind to think any further. Never mind that there are numerous individuals out there who have had negative experiences with VC, his forum, and his forum moderators…but no, that can’t be so! it’s all the work of the infamous Toby! You’re looking more like the “punk bitch” here…
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Directed @Yo Mama
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Pingback: Masonic Symbolism and Disinfo: Unconscious Initiation or Disorientation for the Awakening? « chaukeedaar's blog
Hey The “A” Team and Femalepharoe,
I’ve included two statements of yours in my new article. Please let me know if this is ok, otherwise I can remove your names or complete statements. I’m going to sleep thou in about 15 minutes, so please hurry… 😉
Namaste, Chaukee
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I’d say go for it, but you already did 😉 and I’m perfectly fine with that too. Good article, very good read.
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Hey “A” Team,
Thanks man, appreciate it! You know, its hard to wait when you’ve finished an article, especially this one that was in planning for three months and had hours of research in it 😉 And your statements really are an important part of the article.
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Toby is everywhere, yes, Toby is everywhere,
Toby is in the valley, Toby is in the air;
Toby is in the mountain, Toby is in the sea,
Anywhere we may go, there Toby will be.
–Chorus–
Toby is Toby is all around us
Toby is Toby is everywhere
Toby is Toby is all around us
Toby is Toby is everywhere
Nothing can we hide from His all-seeing eye,
Whether on the land, or in the sea or sky;
Darkness cannot hide us from His blessed face,
For His Splendid presence dwells in every place.
OMG, is Toby the all seeing eye?
What is funny is that these idiots are so afraid of Toby, they’re probably going to be seeing him everywhere for quite sometime, until they unplug from the Matrix that is their Vigilant programming.
You know, I’m beginning to like this Toby. If he’s managed to piss off these bunch of no-thinking doormat, lackey bootlickers to the degree that they see him in every shadow he did something spectacular.
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I lol’d.
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This is a stipulation. Unless Sarge grows a brain, I will slap him in the face.
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It’s funny, or not being Toby, you guys sure like to compliment a guy that 99.9999999% of old forum users hate and know existed. But it’s ok if you call old board users shills LOL. Toby is here Sarge, and he’s obviously dealing with something like schizophrenia like Ayaka thats why he constantly makes poems about himself like a creepy psycho. Just leave it alone. Peace out tobytards.
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You seem to be telling stories for a guy that several dozen people have realized is suspect. How are you different than any of us who have never dealt with Toby, stupid guy?
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Hey A team, io, kittie pinkie pie, everyone else
Prove that you’re not Toby then
Give us a vocaroo each if you have balls, otherwise you’re just a schizophrenic wankster
vocaroo.com or video record yourself saying that you’re not Toby and that you are “Kittie PinkiePie”, “The A Team”, “Io”, etc etc
xD Ahhhhhhh I keep laughing at the obvious insanity here demonstrated by Toby, FemalePharoe, Truthseer, and Ayaka. If there were so many real accounts here, why isn’t there a new forum populated with a 1000 posts by now and 100+ topics? Come on Toby! You’re lagging!
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Yo Mama Sargetard, prove you have a brain for us. Show us a CT scan, or forever be known as the dumbest person on the planet.
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what exactly are you trying to prove by mentioning a CT scan? That’s not funny and I fail to see how it estimates you and your games.
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the sarge above is not the real sarge, its prolly truthseer trollin away again
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Oh and Chaukeedaar, prove that you’re not Toby as well. We already know how much Toby loves wordpresses and fake sites just like you ;D
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Hi Sarge. I see you ran out of steam answering and did what I expected you to do
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It’s funny how you suspect that “Yo Mama” is Sarge with no proof and yet there are at least 30 users on the VC forum who have proof there is Toby and you guys call them shills, wishful thinking much? xD hahahahahahaha Come on Kittie, prove that you’re not Toby! Grow some balls and record yourself!
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I don’t need proof to know you have no brain, and that’s not funny. How about you prove you’re not Sarge? How about you man up to your challenge and go first.
See how easy it is to play this game, numb nut?
Stupid Sarge. It looks like he’s starting to understand what objectivity is. Too bad he doesn’t know what to do with it yet.
Like A Team, who is supposedly me and a handful of others have said. Let them come here with their proof. Why? Because like you, I want to know what he/she has to say about this DantalionTobyMeYouThey thing, ya knows?
Yo Mama is ugly btw.
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Lol@Kittie PinkiePie. This “Yo Mama” character is sorely lacking in the ability to think.
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lol, its not hard for you to create multiple accounts on a place and keep talking to yourself all the time 99% of everyone on VC knows that you did the same with Dantalion Toby and Jack Jones just to help promote your books, and your doing it here too with different names because your afraid of getting caught and prolly going to jail too. You really think that’s not possible makes you the stupid one.
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So you want us to show our pictures and voices to a stalkerish group that serves what we think is a disinfo agent.
Really, you think we have a death wish or something?
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If they don’t do it, juss proves they’re all Toby, even Chaukeedaar, is been said and is been done, and is all fun telling Toby to get stuffed.
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Ok Kitty Kats, see you all tomorrow. Luv – Toby069154322
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Toby always liked to play games and talk to himself.
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Lol at this Perth moron who think’s all Aussies are the same. And you’d be barking mad to use “stipulate” in a physical conversation with someone, don’t expect to hear it anytime soon in rl. This is a formal internet blog, I can use whatever I want.
What’s even funnier than this kid, is how everyone rides along for the sake of it. Nothing that I’ve mentioned has even been touched on.
I don’t care though. It’s been quite entertaining, seeing so many heartbroken people in one place.
Like,
Truthseer, you’ve done failed in life. And I seen your threats first hand. You’re an embarrassing little cunt.
Nyk, you jelly brah? I know you be mirin my aesthetics. People like you, backstabber’s are pathetic. You brought me into this, and chose to diss me even though I never done anything to you at all. I even thought we were cool.
Femalepharoe, ur not concerned with any of this garbage. None of you save the blog author, are probably even interested in exposing anything. Your all just cut you got the boot. U mad pharoe?
I’ve only had one account on this page “sarge”, fucking lol if you fall for TS’s trolling.
Anyway’s, enjoy yourselves and good luck with your little investigation, or venting rather.
Toodles biatches.
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Biatches?
LOLS, Sarge, you’re worse than Shannon.
As for me threatening you, it’s the other way around. You’re the one posting pics of me, Hexa’s the one who has the urge to mention that he knows my real name and address every time we meet on tiny.
Big Wow. I dare him to even enter the street I live in. Too bad he wouldn’t be able to, I live in a pretty high security area.
As for the rest of your pathetic post, here
Quote:
And you’d be barking mad to use “stipulate” in a physical conversation with someone, don’t expect to hear it anytime soon in rl.
This contradicts
Quote:
It’s used freely in this manner here, Australia.
Also
Quote:
This is a formal internet blog, I can use whatever I want.
Contradicts the earlier post in which you use a supposed Australian slang instead of formal language
Quote:
You’re an embarrassed little cunt
My reply, get lost. I don’t need your approval and I’ve never threatened anyone
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Also, my life has just begun, I’ll be Ok
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Whats your point truthseer, are you having trouble reading again? Making sense is hard for you to do?
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Good reply, truthseer!
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Well the comments before my last one under the name “sarge” are not mine.
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“Lol at this Perth moron who think’s all Aussies are the same. And you’d be barking mad to use “stipulate” in a physical conversation with someone, don’t expect to hear it anytime soon in rl. This is a formal internet blog, I can use whatever I want.”
You’re right, you can use it however you want even if I fail to understand what relevancy that has with this being a formal internet blog? What does that have to do with you wanting to talk like a bogan (Aussie slang) loser?
You’re free to talk with as much ghetto jargon and stupid-speak you want, but don’t go trying to make it seem like all of Australia uses your bogan, ghetto version of that word.
Not all Australians are as stupid as you.
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sarge (Toby) wrote “what exactly are you trying to prove by mentioning a CT scan? That’s not funny and I fail to see how it estimates you and your games.”
^This was not me.
You people are being fooled by Toby. I’m absolutely convinced that he has made up the majority of the posts on this very page. Right from the beginning. I was skeptical at first, but now there is no doubt.
Toby wrote that comment above, as i never told anybody else online about my CT scan apart from him. You people need to wake up the hell up. I will TinyChat cam to prove that it was me writing this comment, and not Toby. Trusthseer and United4ever have also been trolling under my name.
Also, taken from TinyChat.
This was most probably Truthseer posing as Nyk, so people wouldn’t know it was him.
(This is Truthseer a few days ago using Nyk’s name so It didn’t show people the convo or something:)
[7:30 PM] nyk_balla: United4ever is trolling for a reason
[7:31 PM] lay: What reason? 😮
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: Tony’s promised him info about VC
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: That would expose him
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: Oh and some shit on Sarge
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: And his location
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: This is again from Tony Jabrony
[7:31 PM] lay: he wants sarge’s location?
[7:31 PM] lay: weird
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: Yeah
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: That’s what I thought
[7:32 PM] nyk_balla: I mean, why’d he want Sarge’s location, he barely knew him
Care to explain Truthseer. And people, don’t fall for Toby’s games.
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Sarge, that convo says TONY! Not TOBY
a) Prove its me
And just to make things fun, I won’t deny it nor will I accept it
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haha, omg, all the alt’s here are Toby and Tony is just one letter away and obviously its Toby playing with you Tony Tank.
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The comments above are not from the real sarge
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The comments before my last one under the title “sarge” are not mine.
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The comments before my last one under the title “sarge” are not mine.
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Tony Jabrony is Truth Seer obviously, because he created an alternate on Vigilant Citizen called Tony Tank and you can see it in the religion sections that Hexa revealed him. Truthseer has probably been getting information from Toby Dantalion Jones from his website because he mentioned he is on there. No one else knew about my CT scan other than Toby so the Sarge above who says about my Ct scan has to be Toby and Truthseer like everyone on Vigilant Citizen knows is working for Toby now.
Truthseer you were dumb before making stuff up and impersonating people on chat but this is the stupidest thing you have done yet. VC is not your enemy, he is under attack from Toby Dantalion Jones and his people because probably they are illuminati and trying to bring down VC who is only exposing them.
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About Tony Tanks postings on Vigilant Citizen
Confirmed, It’s the apprentice of Toby, Truthseer.
Bye! – Hexa
Truthseer if your following Toby now you’ve really fallen apart.
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on Tony Tank’s alt on VC Hexa unmasked Truthseer as the troll
Confirmed, It’s the apprentice of Toby, Truthseer.
Bye! – Hexa
Truthseer youve fallen for Toby and have really gone low bro.
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Hexa also says I have 20+ alts.
Pardon me for not accepting what Hexa said
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Hexa identified you as Tony Tank because your ip address matched Tobite. Either you or Toby are Tony Jabrony.
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Nice name, Tony Jabrony.
Err.. Isn’t 1onelast’s name Tony?
Worth a thought
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Oh my God, Sarge said what I hinted he’d say from the start. Coward
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Truthseer from now on we’ll call you a Tobite
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Maybe you could sing a song for Toby on Judas’s beat considering how idiotic you are. If you’re the real Sarge. come on tiny chat now and cam
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why would I want to come talk to you Tobite? No one on VC wants tto talk to you anymore after you impersonated people on tiny chat and threatened to rape someone
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LOLOLL. Proof or get the fuck out
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there are two sarges below, one is fake one is real. I’m out of this discussion now so you guys can wank off to whatever you want from now on without my conceptions.
Kittie Pinkiepie, your a wanker.
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Hopefully for our sake, you’re not “stipulated” back into it so we can be saved from more of your “conceptions”.
You really don’t know how to use big words at all, not that they’re complicated, but rather you that is simple.
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Truthseer is behind all these sarge posts.Me the real sarge only posted the one with the tinychat dialogue. I will not be participating in this, so you know from this point onwards that it is truthseer trolling. Goodbye.
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the above sarge is not the real sarge. It’s Tony Jabrony
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I’ll assume for a minute that you’re real. Who’s Tony Jabrony? The only Tony I heard of is from you saying Tony Tank. But if that’s Tony Jabrony, how do you know it’s real name?
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fake sarge is obviously gone now, this is you impersonating nyk and dropping the name Tony Jabrony, right after you were banned from VC using Tony Tank. Hexa saw your ip address was the same TS.
(This is Truthseer a few days ago using Nyk’s name so It didn’t show people the convo or something:)
[7:30 PM] nyk_balla: United4ever is trolling for a reason
[7:31 PM] lay: What reason?
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: Tony’s promised him info about VC
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: That would expose him
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: Oh and some shit on Sarge
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: And his location
[7:31 PM] nyk_balla: This is again from Tony Jabrony
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Prove its me
And 2, you really think I’m stupid enough to chat with the gal I called a disinfo agent?
And I’m talking casually to her?
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Dude, I really don’t have the energy to even try to do this
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Cointelpro anyone? VC sure seems rich enough to hire a lot of people. Unless they’re this brain addled….
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Odd how BOTH OF THEM left together
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theres only 1 real sarge, the rest are groupies mirin my aesthetics.
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What in the world…
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Hey Sarge, sarge sarge sarge *sigh* sargie baby….
Here is what I said:
Kittie PinkiePie
“Yo Mama Sargetard, prove you have a brain for us. Show us a CT scan, or forever be known as the dumbest person on the planet.”
It was in response to you demanding people go online, take a video of themselves and prove they’re not “Toby”, which is stupid because no one has a video or voice recording of Toby anyway.
I requested for you to get a CT scan of your brain, just to prove you had one in retort.
You, or someone admiring you then says
Sarge
” what exactly are you trying to prove by mentioning a CT scan? That’s not funny and I fail to see how it estimates you and your games.”
and from all of this you interpret
“Toby wrote that comment above, as i never told anybody else online about my CT scan apart from him.”
It was pure coincidence that my comment asking you to get a CT scan to prove you had a brain, because you’ve been acting like a brainless idiot had anything to do with you getting a real CT scan, dummy.
It’s also not that unusual that a high percentage of people do get CT scans in this day and age, genius (not).
Basically what you did is read into it because you had some personal experience with CT scan and actually believed it was personal to you.
Also, you tell us that you told no one else but this Toby guy that you had a CT Scan? Why would you tell a “malign racist” something about you that you wouldn’t tell anyone else.
You’re not too bright are you?
next….
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Oh btw, now you’ve basically told everyone you had a CT scan, assumed to be of the head. So you’ve had brain damage before then? Not surprising really. That might be mean of me to say, but it kind of makes sense towards the way you’re acting and how easily you’re being duped right now.
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Well Kittie, I find thats actually quite a disgusting way to put someone’s intelligence down. The world is full of people that are wrong, and when you loose your self-composure because of their stupid talk they control YOU.
If I am really confident about my opinion I don’t attack people who have not yet achieved that state of awareness, but try to mentor them, and if that does not help, feel sorry for them and go on. In the end we are only responsible for ourselves, aren’t we. And there is still some chance that I AM wrong, not the other one. Like with VC, I’m 100% sure he is not a person with a solid ethical foundation, but that he runs an sinister agenda is still somehow speculative and needs more solid proof. Dis-identification from our thoughts and opinions I would call this. Results in less personal fighting, I think.
No offense (just a little mentoring from my side 😉 ), I’m sometimes no saint either 🙂
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Chaukeedaar, you’re probably right. I guess I should have just asked if he had a CT scan because of an injury, and if that’s the case I retract all the things I said about him being dumb. Thanks for calling me out on it, I was getting a little out of control. In hindsight, if we are right in our speculation and if Sarge has had a head injury requiring his CT scan which was inadvertently revealed by him, I wish him well in recovery.
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Big hug for you, Kittie!
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Group hug**
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i love you Toby
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Probably spam – different IP and e-mail than the real femalepharoe…
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This whole site is spam. I’m a strong black woman.
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Defo spam…
Femalepharoe never emphasises she’s black unless there’s racism going on
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I’d like to point out that Chauk pointed out IP and Email is different.
However, since he pointed this out, I’d like to point out that he never pointed this out for Sarge. That means there was only 1 Sarge.
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Or he’s just Toby who loves drama and attention. yep. That is the case here. Attention whores, GALORE. LOLOLOLOL.
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Viewing audience please witness, the tactics of the illuminati shills at vc.
they play games like children, playing ” copy cat” .
Shill, word of advice, your style , or lack there of, is obvious.
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I think most people can see that a mile away. Hi Sarge 😉
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That’s directed to the one talking about Toby. The VC shills are obsessed with Toby because you know…
Toby is Toby is all around us,
Toby is Toby is everywhere…sing after me…
Toby is Toby is all around us,
Toby is Toby is everywhere!
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Nope, truthseer, it was by accident that the e-Mail address of the new “femalepharoe” jumped into my eye when confirming “her” post, I don’t control that regularly. The new “femalepharoe” has the same IP as “Yo Mama”. Does the word “pakistanman” say something to anybody?
Now that I check sarge, there have been 3 or 4 different sarges, telling from the e-mail addresses and IP’s. So there is DEFINITELY also someone playing impersonation games at the contra-VC side. Wait – that must be Toby 😉
When I remember correctly in 1984 (the book), there was also a artificial scapegoat that showed to be controlled opposition. Or was it Brave New World? So, definitely, the “Toby”-Strategy is a very obvious masonic deceiving method. Looks like an experiment to me to check if todays youth still falls for it…?
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“When I remember correctly in 1984 (the book), there was also a artificial scapegoat that showed to be controlled opposition. Or was it Brave New World? So, definitely, the “Toby”-Strategy is a very obvious masonic deceiving method.”
Excellent synopsis Chaukeedaar. Most people are suspecting this Toby to be controlled opposition of VC. Toby could have been made to control those who were starting to be suspicious of VC in order to become more hated so VC was then absolved of suspicion. Anyone studying elite tactics would recognize that one. It’s funny how it’s being used by grass roots websites today (VC for example), but not surprising since the age of the kids there range from 15 to mid 20’s, at least for the majority I’m sure.
The way I see it is Indoctrinate them now so that when new concepts are revealed in the future there is less questioning. One need not look at the Vigilant Citizen website, it’s collection of liberal new agers, mods inclusive as well as extremist death-Christians, a term I reserve for those who want nothing but destruction, rather than what would actually heal the world and understanding/love for our fellow humans, something Chaukeedaar had to remind me about…thanks for that btw.
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To prove the point even more, consider this synchronicity:
“Toby” was the name of a character from the novel and TV show “Roots”.
It was the name Kunta Kinte was given when he was enslaved.
http://www.identitywoman.net/google-says-your-name-is-toby-not-kunta-kinte
“He is very clear on his identity, who he is, he is a Mandinka warrior and his name is Kunta Kinte. One of the first things his white slave owner Master Reynolds does is rename him Toby. He refuses to accept this new name, this identity that they have said he must take on…he does accept the name but only after great human suffering inflicted by his master to get him to comply with his wishes.”
“Toby” was also the name of the baby kidnapped by Jareth the Goblin King in the movie “Labyrinth”. One of VC’s articles is about the flim.
Could the VC “Toby” have been created in order to enslave the minds of the VC users?
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Typing error: I meant to say “film”
and on a side note, “Toby” is also a common name people give to their dogs.
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wow,
very good analysis everyone.
shout out to the films and books that tie these things together.
Good call on “toby” ayaka – it’s not uncommon when people fabricate stories (vc’s “toby) – like any good scripts they pull from past fiction.
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I’m Pakistani so yes pakistanman does say something to me
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Hello kittie 😉
“extremist death-Christians”: Funny wording and very much to the point for some of them. Whenever I see religious people full of hate I get remembered that no system (like religions), nor label nor concept (“salvation”) in the world can save people or make them better, it really all comes down to all these little decisions in every days life where you choose between good and evil, egoistic and altrouistic, love and hate.
“something Chaukeedaar had to remind me about…thanks for that btw.”
You’re very welcome, I hope you guys do the same when I get off the road!
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I find it odd that some one comes on here and expresses their own opinion and even though it might not go in line with the main mindset of the thread, that person gets accused of being “not real” or “the chairman”. I was even suprised to see Chaukeedaar himself insist that I was not real. What am I then a myth or a ghost? Perhaps I should have posted under the name “Bigfoot” or “Nessy”. The name qwicksylver is a name I have been using sense Highschool. Which was long before VC or any of this illuminati talk ever started.
I honestly expected better than that, I was under the impression that this was a place where one could voice their opinion and not be instantly attacked for what they said. Perhaps I should have read the previous comments a little closer and realized that was the trend. Even though I did spend a few hours just reading the comments. I
When I originally posted I was under the impression that this thread was dead or dying and was not really expecting much response. I was wrong. I am only saying that as to explain why I have taken so long for me to respond.
First off I would like to say that the one or ones I was accusing of playing games or having fun at reader/commentors expense was the poster, who’s comments reflected that of a person informing us that the whole VC forums debacle was really a “Social Experiment” and they were just collecting data. The reason I stated that this was a joke or charade, was merely because why then would some admit that it was an experiment if it really was. That would simply y comprimise the expriment. After reading everyone’s reactions, I could however see how some one could find humor in reading those reactions and watching how people played right into the individual’s hand. That made it easy to believe that it could all be a ruse. And with that in mind you can see how one could see all the otheres jumping in as just more people joining the ruse.
Secondly I stated that I was unaware of the kind of advertisements that were being run on VC’s site, but still found the articles to be informative. And in reading through the article I have not seen where you (Chaukeedaar) present any counter statements or proof of false thruths. Do not confuse this for me standing up for VC or trying to defend him. I am asking because I am curious to see any arguements refuting what he has stated in his articles. Are you saying that you don’t think the music industry is corrupt or that a shadow goverment is ruling the world?
As for the advertisments for NGIO or whatever it is, I agrree you have a valid point. I did not notice them right away or reallly at all so I want to thank you for bringing that to my attention. These points did make me doubt the motives of VC, so pips to you (Chaukeedaar) for that observation.
All this other stuff that came up after article about VC living in Canada, being part of a Conspiracy Theorist Cabal group who make money off of us, is very probable. I agrree that it is very likely and makes sense.
As for other issues this whole Toby thing is absolute non-sense. I honestly feel Toby never existed or if he did it was for one post and some one else took it and ran with it. I think the people here and on VC forums are wasting too much energy on this Toby character. If Toby was aplant or a false ID used cause confusion and disruption, then it is apppearantly working. The fact that people are still using the name Toby proof of that. People posting here are way to susceptible and play right into manipulation traps.
A counter tactic against those opposing the establishment would be to turn them against each other. Remember that Until Next Time
-Qwickie
“gotta go fast”
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**scrolling back up*** nope don’t see Chaukeedaar doing that.**
But you should stop whining about being attacked. You’re not being attacked. Even Chaukeedaar called me out when I made fun of Sarge and his possible head injury, which was a low blow by me. So be a man, or a woman and toughen up dude/ette?
IIRC the ones claiming it was an experiment had a “divorce” with the VC owners or something like that. That would lend some credibility to the story though, if there was a split that wasn’t amicable, then maybe they would spill the story. Since then no one has come around to elaborate, so it may have well been fabricated, but then how much of everything else is a possible fabrication. Ask yourself? I’m waiting for this information that is supposedly going to confirm or deny the Dantalion Jones story, but those who are spreading that line of information refuse to come around and tell anyone how they drew that conclusion. More possible fabrications there.
I think that’s what this is all about. That many people believe things on face value without actually trying to make moves to confirm. If you can’t confirm, it’s fine to take something as plausible, we all do it, but to put all your eggs in one basket usually ends up in mistake.
Don’t go so quick 🙂 I just want to know where the ones explaining how sinister Toby/Dantalion were/are went to, and where is “A” Team who promised information like a week ago? Just lurking? If so, come out of the shadows man and deliver the goods, we’re waiting for a reason. Don’t keep us hanging or the shills will claim you’re Toby playing with us.
In that case
Toby is Toby is all around us,
Toby is Toby is everywhere
Toby is Toby is all around us
Toby is Toby is everywhere
*ring* *ring* “Wallaby Police Station, how can I help you?”
Sarge’s Mom “My son called you the other day and you brushed him off, I want to know why?”
Police officer “First of ma’am, who is your son and how did we brush him off?”
Sarge’s Mom “He informed you of a very sinister plot to frame the Vigilant Citizen being perpetrated by Tobartan, and you guys just asked him if he needed medications then transfered him over to Ambulance.”
Police “oh, uhm…hold on a sec” (covers phone, mumbling in the background) “Ok ma’am, what can we do about it?”
Sarge’s Mom “You see this Toby guy has created dozens upon dozens of persona’s and is trolling dozen’s of blogs lying about all of this and it’s really upsetting my son because my son once believed him and then didn’t believe him and now doesn’t know what to believe anymore and is afraid to go outdoors! Please arrest Toby!”
Police “Ok ma’am we’ll look into it…don’t call us, we’ll call you!”
–click–
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Hey Qwicksylver,
I now checked back your original post and to my disgrace I must admit that I can hardly comprehend why I accused you of not being real. I must not have read your text carefully enought, because your thoughts are legit whereas formulated quite cautious. Perhaps I got so used to rude language in that comments section that I temporarily lost my receptiveness. But I’m not looking for an excuse, I clearly appologize for that unfriendly welcome!
(And I did not change my opinion because of your nice feedback on the new article, I thought about this inbetween on my way home).
“Are you saying that you don’t think the music industry is corrupt or that a shadow goverment is ruling the world?”
Much more than just the music industry is corrupt and in the hands of secret society members. And the shadow government/the cabel is there for sure, but they don’t yet rule the world. At least they don’t rule me for a large part (still have to work, but changed my lifestyle drastically last year, so…) 😉
I guess you might have found a more profound answer on my new article as why I see a big chance that VC might be disinfo…
Peace, Chaukee
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chaukeedaar
I have a question. Why have you acknowledged everyone on your blog for & against you except me ? #feelingleftout 😦
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harper,
it’s been so much going on . though the disinfo trolls did not have their intended effect. they did assist in not being able to keep up with who is who and what is what.
but the disinfo , still, is obvious.
*hug*
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femalepharoe
Thanks & your right it is obvious. What they don’t understand is, it doesn’t matter the name. It is what is said that counts.
Anyone with a half of brain can see right through the foolery !
I take that back. People like you and a few others make it easier to spot. You make good examples out of them. Meaning they prove & the proof as to the very points were trying to make !
Yours & a few others comments stand while the rest crumble before our “eyes” .
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Hey harper,
I’m sorry I did not react to your first comment or any other later! As femalepharoe sais, it was really hell of a lot going on and I normally stepped in when something new or especially intelligent or especially dumb was written 😉 Having checked back all your comments I agree with what you said and enjoy your contributions. The idea that the age of VC forum members is relavant to the rate they get banned is quite an interesting find and strengthens the statements of the A-team and others that VC is about programming the youth with occult methods.
So, welcome to you 🙂
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chaukeedaar
Thanks ! Sorry to whine like a baby. I also like to add I found an interesting comment in one of the VCMB links provided above in regards to the Toby situation.
It read something like ” the Christian presence is too strong……” I can’t remember the exact quote, but I guess they had to come up with some kind of plan to get rid of Christians.
And maybe it’s just me but I also feel discrimination against “Americans” on VC site. I yet to have any evidence to back up my claim, but in the beginning their were lots of Americans ( as myself) after the bans I haven’t really noticed that many if any.
If anyone feel I am right or wrong they could chime in !
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“The idea that the age of VC forum members is relavant to the rate they get banned is quite an interesting find and strengthens the statements of the A-team and others that VC is about programming the youth with occult methods.”
Odd, because truthseer and Aeon Flux happened to fall into the same age range with the majority of VC’s target audience (15-25), but they still got banned nevertheless.
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It still looks like a playground over there if you ask me. It saddened me to see so many 11-12 year old on such sites.
I was 25 & banned. When you look on the first whats your age thread you have ages 14-60.
The second one 12 – maybe 25
The last one confirms the audience is getting younger & younger. I have no doubt they “flush” the thread until it’s too their liking & create topics to draw in children.
Just look at the behavior of the conditioned children over there. They act more illuminated & conditioned than the artist spoke about on that site which is scary when you think about it !
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I believe you are right, harper. The site’s audience is getting younger and younger.
When I first starting lurking on the new boards after they became availible for public viewing around mid-May 2011, I noticed that a lot of the user seemed to be between the ages of 23-45 judging by their writing styles. Overtime however, I noticed that many of the users I used to see posting in the sections I would read durring my lurker days (General, News and Current Events, Theories, Music Business, Spirituality, and Health and Nutrition) just started disappearing. I assumed that these users left, because I didn’t start reading the Social and Off-Topic section of the forums until I joined there.
Even when I got out of lurking and finally decided to join around early-October 2011, you still had a some of the older users, but the primary age of the majority of users was lowered between the ages of 20-25. As more and more of the older users either got banned or left, the primary age just kept getting lower and lower to the point that by the time I left the site around mid-December 2011, it was mostly full of people between the ages of 15-25. Pretty soon, most of the users will be between 12-15 if this keeps up.
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IMO in the beginning the material ( topics & discussion) were wayyy more interesting. At this point I find myself entering very few forums.
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I’ve been busy for the last few days so forgive my absence. I also wanted to let the few people that have been spreading disinformation about this Dantalion Jones = Toby Jones = Vigilant Nemesis is untrue. Not only have I found out that it is untrue, but that the owner or owners of the Vigilant Citizen and Dantalion Jones have actually been working together, helping and supporting each other. I’m putting the evidence I’ve gather together in a chronological order. I’m also doing in a manner that you yourself can confirm. I believe it is conclusive evidence actually. At the end there will be certain conclusions that can be drawn. If Dantalion Jones is Toby Jones, then they both have been good for business for Vigilant Citizen and in no way a true nemesis. That is in the public eye they’ve been opponents, but behind closed doors, so-to-speak, they are working hand in hand. If Toby Jones is a true nemesis of the Vigilant Citizen, then he is not Dantalion Jones and the Christians on the forum that have presented no evidence, leading one to conclude they made the whole story up, truly did make the whole story up. This one seems probable to me because If one goes to the Vigilant Citizen website and does a search for Toby Jones, you will find all the discussions and in them you will be able to see for yourself how these characters came to the conclusion, all of which is pure speculation or whispered to them by Vigilant Citizen. If it was whispered to them by Vigilant Citizen, then he’s been playing them all and FemalePharoe is right, he’s truly carrying the smoking gun.
I don’t expect that much of this is going to have a significant impact on the VC faithful, but those of you who can see through the smoke and mirrors will have more of an idea of the games they play there.
I’ll start off in my next comment with Part 1. I’m breaking them up into parts so as to chunk this information in an easy to digest manner.
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I meant to say I wanted to give the chance to the few liars spreading this false information that everyone is linked to Toby, specifically Dantalion Jones, have ample opportunity to present their conclusions. Since they have not it is safe to say they have no true connections and the probability that they fabricated all of it, is extremely high.
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Post the info about the three people who run VC already
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What are you asking? I said I was going to give information on Dantalion Jones and VC link and let you guys decide if what is being said is either true or false.
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I’ve heard from a credible source that 3 people run VC. One writes the articles, one emails and one writes comments on the topics
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Sounds like you have that info, and didn’t someone already post that above in the initial comments?
My test failed. I’ll wait till someone can explain it because google isn’t much help itself.
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Chauk, do you know how to embed pictures into the comments here so people reading them can flow through the information rather than clicking a link, looking at the picture and then coming back here to read the synopsis? Does anyone know how? I’d rather the pics be viewable in the comment itself.
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Test
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It imbeds videos directly
[img]http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i345/Daciplez/IMG_0415.png[/img]
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Unfortunately there’s no way to make inline images work in the free WordPress Blog I’m using 😦
It’s probably a sales trick to have people buy a hosted blog…
For videos it does work, as truthy pointed out…
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What is this Pakistan Man thing by the way?
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“What is this Pakistan Man thing by the way?”
“pakistanman” is part of the e-mail address of “Yo Mama” and the fake femalepharoe. Looks like someone tries to throw mud at you, truthseer…? (what a surprise 😉 )
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TS you asked for proof that you trolled, impersonated people, sent death threats and used to be against Toby, but now are with him?
Truthseer admitting he was part of the old boards and implying he had knowledge of all that went down
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3844&hilit=Toby&start=270
notice in the comments here he said he didn’t know anything about the old boards. So your a liar then truthseer because in that post you said you had 2000+ posts on the old board, and you would always pop up in the Toby discussions like you had insider knowledge.
Truthseer also saying that Toby was Dantalion Jones, so there you go Mr. A team, why don’t you ask little Tobite Truthseer here about that?
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6215&p=131247
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5746&p=120622
Truthseer still talkin Toby, prolly becuz he in love with Toby
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6256&p=129605
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6215&p=127489
Sayin Toby killd RN and stupid reference to Chain and Dac
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6151&p=129151
TS was a full blown Tobite even before he joined Toby’s side.
Love for Toby and RN
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5528&p=113173
Hexa reveals this
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7596
Truthseer impersonating others in tinychat as well as creating alts to troll Vigilant Citizen forums
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6144&start=630
He was a full blow Toby conspiracist like everyone else before he became Toby’s lil bitch like he is on here now.
Then he stalks and threatens and that’s why he was banned.
pass the nutella biatches
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Responding to each charge
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5746&p=120622
I say that next on LOKI’S time line after Chain’s banning is Toby. Simple as that.
First link, i admitted I lied to know the truth. Or what they thought was the truth. YOU ARE SPREADING DISINFO here
Next
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6215&p=131247
Here I repeat what I believed at the time
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6256&p=129605
Obvious editing by Hexa is obvious. Notice, how chain never replies to me supposedly calling him a troll. Obvious EVIL VC EDITING
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6215&p=127489
Again, how come there’s no reference to me saying Toby is good ever?
You’re telling me I called Toby good and no one said ANYTHING? And yet, you find a completely obscure post?
STOP WITH THE OBVIOUS EDITING! At least, next time get Hexa to insert some line by the next poster dissing me calling Toby nice.
Oh and now, I think Toby is VC and they’re both losers.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6151&p=129151
And I even mentioned I was joking….
Next in this loser pile?
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Oh my. Ask him out on a date already Sarge, maybe Toby too. Good luck with getting the proper authorities over here to arrest all of us Toby clones too, lol.
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Lol TS, stop playing the strawman.
I confirmed it with Laya who has access to the Mod Logs of who edited what on each and every post on VC.
And surprise surprise, Hexa_404 edited none of your posts WHATSOEVER.
Quit with your BS Dude.
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Lols
You know I have been wondering about this possibility.
I mean, why does he have pictures of me anyway?
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Hi Sarge.
Yes, because we all trust Laya or you. You could be lying
But I’m assuming this is the truth and Hartwell, Laya, Tweet or Vigilant did.
Prove they didn’t
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Btw, how was this a strawman?
I responded to every other charge except two.
I’m sorry but the editing is MORE THAN OBVIOUS!
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I’m sorry everyone, but truthseer is taken. This means none of you people can date him.
and to the VC imbeciles:
He’s under my wing now.
So please back off.
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OMG YES, ABOUT TIME, I have been waiting for months for TS to ask out Ayaka.
The chemistry between them was so MUCH!
AYAKASEER FOREVER!!! ♥
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I remembered something
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3844&start=320
Quote:
Anyway I notice noones mentioned something that a lot of us were shown on TF about VC… hmm
I remember. You can search VC for VC pron. I have no idea what this is but many posts seem to emphasise it’s true
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Responding to each charge
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5746&p=120622
I say that next on LOKI’S time line after Chain’s banning is Toby. Simple as that.
First link, i admitted I lied to know the truth. Or what they thought was the truth. YOU ARE SPREADING DISINFO here
Next
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6215&p=131247
Here I repeat what I believed at the time
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6256&p=129605
Obvious editing by Hexa is obvious. Notice, how chain never replies to me supposedly calling him a troll. Obvious EVIL VC EDITING
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6215&p=127489
Again, how come there’s no reference to me saying Toby is good ever?
You’re telling me I called Toby good and no one said ANYTHING? And yet, you find a completely obscure post?
STOP WITH THE OBVIOUS EDITING! At least, next time get Hexa to insert some line by the next poster dissing me calling Toby nice.
Oh and now, I think Toby is VC and they’re both losers.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6151&p=129151
And I even mentioned I was joking….
Next in this loser pile?
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poor little tobite, doesn’t like being exposed as a troll and sick in the head
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Here is what they call VC pron
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3844&start=420
A secretly controlled elite industry is this. Maybe VC’s in that industry?
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Typical CIA/Russian Nika/Katarzyna:
So I guess this means CIA is Nika after all:
Even layaamani is suspicious. But why did she change her name to “AylaAmani”?:
See what I mean?:
Even Hexa_404 changed his name to “Hex”.:
It’s almost like ever since the “Who is” thread incident happened, the mods quickly changed there names to cover them themselves up and create confusion, although I never did have any problems with Laya or Hexa during my time on there.
Have they become power mad ever since they became mods? They don’t seem to be like the same people I used to know anymore. It seems that power does corrupt a person after all.
What is with all these name changes? Could someone please explain this to me?
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@Ayaka shaka laka.
Oh Noes so they changed a few of their letters of knocked a few off their usernames!
They are still clearly recognizable as who they are, so what’s the problem there?
Big deal. I’m a curious conspiracy theorist but really?!
You guys are the most crackpot loonies I’ve seen to date.
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Hi Shannon.
Get lost, we recongnise you
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What were a lot of you shown on TF about VC? I missed something?
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Why does Belligerent have her right eye covered in her pictures? Is she trying to be all illuminati like her music idols or what?
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Kittie PinkiePie,
I’m not sure whether you know this or not, but a lot of teenagers these days think that doing the one-eye sign is “cool”, “hip”, and “trendy”. This even includes some of the teenagers who read Vigilant Citizen and participate in its message boards.
For example, I remember that it was common for some of the users (I’m not naming any names right now for fear of being attacked by them again, but I’m sure truthseer knows who I’m talking about.) in the VC chatrooms used to do the one-eye sign in the webcam a lot, along with the “pyramid” hand gesture. It’s almost as if the site (VC) wants these teens to think it’s “cool” and “trendy”, but I’m just guessing there.
Sadly however, I don’t have any screenshots because I felt like I didn’t have the need for them at the time to prove any points. I wasn’t expecting something like this to happen during my time at the VC forums.
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Ayaka,
Yeah I figured that was the case because it’s “hip” and “cool” and of course sites like the Vigilant Citizen help to indoctrinate them into this by constantly flashing these images. It matters little what he says about them, but they’re constantly being exposed in the regular media and via websites like his, is not surprising that a lot of these mindless teenagers just adopt it without thinking.
That begs the question, how do you get them out of trance again and into a
thinking mode that helps them to differentiate from overt and covert manipulation?
I think it starts with questioning.
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Sadly since questioning is not allowed via the subtle and not so subtle examples there, these kids have no chance to break free of their conditioning unless something drastic occurs in their lives. That being the case, most may even turn to their drugs and other avenues of escapism before realizing how easily it was to get into their mind and control them, yes even web cam’ing like mindless drones type of behavior counts as escapism.
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“It matters little what he says about them, but they’re constantly being exposed in the regular media and via websites like his, is not surprising that a lot of these mindless teenagers just adopt it without thinking.”
Exactly.
I have noticed that these teenagers are more attracted to the “pop star” aspect then any other aspect of the site.
Occult? Mysticism? Esoteric? Spirituality? They can care less about those things. Just keep providing them with more articles concering their favorite “pop stars” and they will be hungry for more.
As for me, I admit to being very interested in esoteric subjects, but I still believe in God and I mean no harm to people I like. I’m just a spiritual person who belongs to no religion. Some people even consider me to be “pagan”, but I don’t think I am. To me, it all depends on how a person uses the knowledge. You can use the knowledge for good and help others, or you can be like the elite/illuminati/shadow goverment and use the knowledge for pure evil and manipulation.
“yes even web cam’ing like mindless drones type of behavior counts as escapism”
You’re correct on that one.
No matter how hard many people will still try to deny it, webcaming is indeed a form of escapism.
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Chaukeedar, am I correct in thinking your screen name is derived from the hindi word “chowkidar” meaning “watchman, caretaker; one who inhabits a “chowki”, police station or guard house.” ?
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Hi Miha,
Thats right, here is some more on my background and why I chose that name:
Namaste, Chaukee
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Does everyone agree that Hartwell is a bit of a tool?
When I think Hartwell, this is the image I get in mind
http://tinyurl.com/792mbgy
he might be gay, theres a rumor about it
and Russian Nika / Katarzyna
http://tinyurl.com/6to2lwz
Toby Dantalion aka Tobalion
http://tinyurl.com/6o3f2e4
These three are the axis of evil on VC for sure.
and if you come at me IRL Toby I will carve your face!
you will end up like this
http://tinyurl.com/75sgf5o
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He’s bisexual, like Shannon and Russian Nika and most other members.
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KittiePinkiePie,
The Chainmaker on ATS is me, the Chainmaker on David Icke forum is not me.
Want proof?
I know how to spell, for one thing.
I am interested, why are you calling me Kettner?
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Oh Good you’re back, that is if you are the real Chainmaker.
Tell us, why do you keep dodging the hard questions, like how you know Dantalion Jones = Toby Jones? I was really hoping you’d show us some information. I was about to start my little mini-series, but I think I’ll wait to see what you got. My suspicions? You guys all just made it up, but before I say anything more since we now know you are reading, please let us know how you came to that conclusion, and I hope it’s a bit more than Sarge’s “who else wudda don it!” type of reasoning.
Waiting….
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Here’s what I earlier wrote (below), since that time we’ve been inundated with trolls to distract, but my challenge is still good to you Chainmaker, unless you’re a troll in which case Chaukeedaar can check to see if the email and IP you used are the same as the other Chainmaker.
You pose as a defender of truth, as someone who has truth and cannot lose.
So man up and present your truth that Dantalion Jones = Toby Jones. Defend this truth of yours, or admit that you came to this conclusion with…and I paraphrase Tweeterfist here…”quite void of actual evidence and based on pure conjecture and sloppy reasoning…”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9317&p=194096
The thing your friend Tweeterfist has completely failed to understand, in his defense of his master Vigilant Citizen, is that your little crew have engaged the exact same process he describes above in your rant on Dantalion Jones and Toby Jones. I may not doubt the character existed, but how you two linked them together and additionally how you all conclude that he was a nemesis or enemy of Vigilant Citizen is exactly through the reasoning process Tweeter defines.
This is why you remain silent on how you drew that conclusion, because truth is not in you. Emotional reactivity is.
“Ok two down. Tweeterfist and Sarge have admitted they only believe what they have been told. For the other hard questions, they go silent.
Now, it’s up to Daciple/Chainmaker, Henrik and the others mentioned earlier like Belligerent, Katarzyna/Russian Nika/ Hartwell, Hexa and the other clones sent in here to tell us who’s been telling them naughty things.
Can’t wait because you know, even in their silence they’re either right or we’re right and they’ve all been lied to. Soon we’re all going to know for sure what it is.”
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A Team,
You can believe whatever you want to believe about Toby and Dantalion and whether or not Toby is one individual or an individual with a few accomplices, (as I believe and intuitively know for a fact personally from my own experiences even to the point of reading some Toby imposter accounts on this very page) or whether there is a mysterious Jones Group allied with Vigilant Citizen Group receiving funds from the Tavistock Institute to gather data about how to mind-control conspiracy board paranoid personalities for the purpose of the Revelation of the Method to bring the 13-year-old “little monster” GaGa fans into willing submission to the NWO.
There were threads all about this Toby drama after the board reset, if I were you I would run a search for posts that WoWfan made regarding the issue. WoWfan the homosexual Wiccan figured out that Dantalion was Toby before most of the Christians ever did.
I already told you I don’t have Exhibit A through Z for you to look at, all I have is my own experience with Daciple my real life friend and what he has told me about TruthFiles and the emails he showed me that he was getting harassed with, and my own conversations with Toby before all the drama before I left, and my own conversations with Vigilant which have revolved around my repeated bannings for being such a hateful intolerant bigot for speaking the truth about the pedophile false prophet Mohammed, and speaking the truth about the astral travel witchcraft and moral relativist Satanism that is Hexa’s Light Soul Religion, and of course speaking the truth to FemalePharoe about the non-racist equality of the mentality of the faction of white America commonly called white trash, and the faction of black America commonly called niggers.
Oh and KittiePinkiePie, I never went to jail with Daciple, and certainly never went to jail for stealing a car lol. In my entire life I have been to jail three times and never for more than a few days. Daciple told his life story about finding Jesus while he was in a halfway house which isn’t real jail, and I was not in that halfway house with him.
Funny how the rumor mill churns.
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So Chainmaker you won’t show how you came to that conclusion because I am right, and you guys just suspect it based on the science of rumor’ology and “conjecture” (Hi Logan 😉 ). Just as I thought.
Chainmaker; “Funny how the rumor mill churns!”
Pot calling Kettle Black, even though I know it wasn’t directed at me, but you cornered yourself on that one. Not very sharp of you.
If that’s how you evaluate truth, I pity those who listen to you.
“(as I believe and intuitively know for a fact personally from my own experiences even to the point of reading some Toby imposter accounts on this very page) or whether there is a mysterious Jones Group allied with Vigilant Citizen Group receiving funds from the Tavistock Institute to gather data about how to mind-control conspiracy board paranoid personalities for the purpose of the Revelation of the Method to bring the 13-year-old “little monster” GaGa fans into willing submission to the NWO.”
Are you saying you think there is a possibility that the Jones story here is true? Well then that’s entirely different kettle of fish, isn’t it? I mean, of course there’s a possibility that there was some sort of weird experiment going or data collection going on with Vigilant Citizen’s blessing that may have went awry, but that’s not the point I’m trying to make. Possibility does not automatically = fact. That’s the point here.
I’ll show you something soon that might make you change your mind on all of that, or might make you reinforce your “intuition” or more accuretly, your suspicions, but making the distinction between what you think might be probable and what is provable, is true objective thinking.
Somehow you and your cohort have missed that.
“WoWfan the homosexual Wiccan figured out that Dantalion was Toby before most of the Christians ever did.”
I’ve seen it. Anyone can see it all by going to the VC website and without even logging in use the search function for the names Toby and Dantalion and see all the threads. What you miss is that it’s all speculation. What I am going to show you might further fuel that speculation, but it will be something you can go and confirm for yourself too.
“Daciple my real life friend and what he has told me about TruthFiles and the emails he showed me that he was getting harassed with”
Speaking of which, the idea circulation that you two are the same person has about as much fact behind it as the idea that Dantalion and Toby are the same person, if that means anything to you. I think it should. It should mean this, and I quote you “Funny how the rumor mill churns!”
Here’s something to ponder. Let’s say that VC, Toby and Dantalion were truly all working together like many people seem to believe is plausible now. The idea that it was one rouge member of the forum harassing your “friend” changes, does it not?
What I’ve been asking for all along, because I think it will add to what I’m going to present and that is the only reason why I am waiting, is how you/Daciple and crew determined all those emails were coming from one source. Surely you can screen shot them, and surely you can look up headers, because based on the information in them alone using “speculative” imagination isn’t good science, or objectivity at work.
Sometimes your hunches are wrong.
Other times they’re based on paranoia, the same paranoia that I’ve read your “friend” Daciple use when speculating that he was being targeted for removal off of the VC website. Geez Louise, I mean, if he was really not wanted there he would be taken off already, banned for life like you have been. It’s an easy conclusion. Sometimes paranoia gets the best of you and you feel you’re being targeted when it’s not really all about you. I don’t know if any of that will make sense to you, or your friend who’s been in a half-way house for whatever reason. I suspect if drugs were involved, his imaginations are not as valid as many people are led to believe.
So tell him to show the headers. I’m pretty good with stuff like that. I’ve received emails from a variety of sources in this little “petty investigation” and you’d be surprised how simple it can be to verify sources.
Your problems with the other users don’t interest me. Understanding what the purpose of websites like the Vigilant Citizen, and how they are truly programming the unequipped youth of today to be mindless robots and accept indoctrination into the future with sloppy thinking does interest me.
You and your friends have demonstrated a lot of sloppy thinking, and to go around claiming you have truth on the other hand is a little questionable to me. How you came to your conclusions may have also been through the same sloppy reasoning process.
So if you have anything else to present, or if your friend Daciple would like to present anything, speak now. You might be helping this cause, you may not, but you won’t know until you dig deep, tap into your stones 🙂 and delineate your reasoning process that led you to these conclusions.
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PS Chainmaker, you perfectly demonstrate my point about making distinctions between probable and provable with this statement of yours
“(as I believe and intuitively know for a fact personally from my own experiences even to the point of reading some Toby imposter accounts on this very page)”
Facts are reproducible.
Start with that as a basic understanding before spouting off your intuition is fact based. Intuition not to be discredited, however there are many many instances when someone confused imagination for intuition. Unless you have a reproducible fact, you don’t have facts.
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One last thing Chainmaker, to further give credibility to my assertion that sometimes we confuse intuition with imagination, or otherwise imagine things that are not there or were not said, I went back up and scroll (used control-f) to see where KittiePinkiePie said you went to jail for stealing a car, because that struck me as being inaccurate as I never remembered that being said, and I usually have a very good memory.
Here is what she or he actually said.
” If rumors are not just fake, you were in for grand theft and Justin for drug dealing?”
Grand – Theft!
here is what you interpreted
” and certainly never went to jail for stealing a car lol”
I assume your mind inserted the word car into your processing because of the video game Grand-Theft-AUTO?
Whether that is the reason you made that connection or not, is not important. What is important is that your brain tricked you, or your imagination rather.
If your brain can trick you into adding ideas in instances like these, minor instances, imagine (ooops) what it can do in other instances.
That is why it is best practice for you (and others who demonstrate the same sloppy tendency) to really try to understand the difference between
Probable
and
Provable
now
b/c PTB know exactly how to make you think something that you may even believe you came to all by yourself with methods that take advantage of this slip up in human reasoning process, and small mistakes like these indicate that you are certainly capable of being programmed to think things that may not really be true.
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What I consider a fact you might not consider a fact. Based on my own experience I know it is a fact that Toby and Dantalion are the same. I do not believe that it is possible that the original Toby Jones and Dantalion Jones accounts were two people, I solidly believe that they were one person. I do not believe that there is any chance I am wrong about this. I do believe that Toby is affiliated with a small number of other people, I do not believe that they are any kind of organized research group, that is the hilarious rumor they started for giggles.
It is impossible to definitively prove that, especially after the old boards are gone, but even with the old boards it could not be definitely proven.
It was my discussion with Vigilant that led to the reinstatement of the many Christians who had been banned because of the TruthFiles drama. I know from those discussions that Vigilant did not have the whole story himself about what was occurring. As you said, Daciple would not be there without Vigilant allowing him to be. Neither would Tweeterfist.
Again I tell you, you can believe whatever you want about Toby it doesn’t really matter at all in the big picture, I gave my belief based on experience which is fact to me. If you want to believe that Toby and Vigilant are Illuminati agents that’s your choice, there never has been any definitive evidence to prove this and there never will be.
Now if you want to say that every other argument I ever made is bunk because I don’t have any more evidence than you have already seen, and I don’t have the capability or desire to capture Toby in real life and get a video confession for you to watch, that is your choice too.
I spent my time on VC proving points with evidence. I can prove with evidence that Mohammed was a child molestor by clinical definition and I can prove with evidence that Hexa is a Satanist by definition even if he doesn’t consider himself to be. That’s the kind of thing that makes me unpopular with lots of people including Vigilant, because I infuriate people who have faith in evil religions and ideologies.
Grand theft, grand theft auto, I have never been charged or convicted for theft of anything. So I added an “auto” to the accusation, doesn’t make any difference, doesn’t change anything about anything, it’s a very minor mistake, you got that right.
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The mistake is actually very significant, not minor. It’s actually a massive error in processing information. Basically your brain inserts information that is not there and changes meaning. This is a tendency you have.
If you can do it in this instance, means you do it in other instances, likely where it actually can have a negative effect. What is minor is the significance. In this case it doesn’t really lead to anything dangerous, but in others it can.
You and your friends have shown that your belief that Dantalion = Toby is based on some very random, and poorly interpreted bits of information.
That is why you cannot reproduce anything significant.
And no I won’t think what I want, I will think what you have said directly. You’re trying to pass responsibility for your communication to me and that won’t fly here.
Before I go on, and because it’s obvious that you don’t have any real evidence backing your assertions, let me ask you this.
Do you believe that Dantalion/Toby = Vigilant Citizen, or that they were working together?
A simple Yes or No will suffice. Don’t worry, I’ll help you with this later. Just answer the question for now because it will be a good starting point for what I want to show you all.
You say,
“What I consider a fact you might not consider a fact.”
This is a false statement. What you should be saying instead is what you imagine to be true, I may not imagine to be true.
Facts, as I’ve stated before and you again confirm your lack of understanding, are reproducible.
Repeat after me: Facts are reproducible.
If you cannot reproduce any, you have none and as shown above where you imagined KittiePinkiePie stating that you went to jail for stealing a car, when what was said was that you went to jail for Grand-Theft, you insert your imaginations where no facts exist and refer to said imaginations as fact. Your brain looked for meaning and somehow unconsciously associated Grand-Theft with the video game Grand-Theft-Auto, which are two different things.
It was sloppy.
It was a distortion, or rather an insertion of information.
It’s an error in cognitive processing.
I’ve shown that to be the case, without question.
If you do it there, you probably do it when processing other bits of information. You probably did it with the information you processed about Dantalion = Toby.
“Based on my own experience I know it is a fact that Toby and Dantalion are the same”
No you don’t because you have no facts. You believe them to be, you have no facts that they are. Two separate statements.
see, here is what you said about it yourself
“I don’t have any more evidence than you have already seen.”
That’s conclusive.
fact/fakt/
Noun:
A thing that is indisputably the case.
You have “experience” which as shown above is questionable, especially since you refuse to give an account of which and ask that people just defer to you as an authority. In this case you’re acting like Vigilant Citizen and posing as someone who shall not be questioned.
Your idea of “fact” is completely wrong. If you were a lawyer and went into a court case and said “based on my experience the man sitting on the stand is guilty and that is a fact” you’d be laughed out of court. That is all you have here, and presenting yourself as an authority based on that is laughable.
“I do not believe that there is any chance I am wrong about this.”
What you believe is irrelevant, what you can prove is relevant. You have proven nothing so far. You also never admit when you may be wrong, or even leave for possibility that you are wrong. You suffer from a grandiose view of yourself, being a conspiracy theorist doesn’t actually help in this regard.
We’re all conspiracy theorists to a degree. We try to find patterns in our environment, especially those that may represent (even if not true) a threat to us. When things go wrong, we find ourselves searching for what or, who, is behind it.
Historian Richard Hofstadter hypothesized in that underlying emotions of helplessness and alienation fuel conspiracy thinking and research supports this theory.
Conspiracy theorists begin to fail when they adopt a grandiose view of themselves as heroes, they are then susceptible to developing messianic complexes.
I think you fit this description perfectly, as does your “friend” Daciple. I will continue to put friend in quotations because, as I stated before, the evidence that you two are one in the same is as strong as the evidence that Dantalion is Toby.
Get it? The quality of musings, imaginations, and evidence are identical in both cases. The evidence is the same, that doesn’t mean that both statements are wrong or correct, but that tangible, reproducible facts evade both statements.
In many cased grandiosity is a defense against underlying feelings of powerlessness, which leads one to connect disparate dots, especially if feeling disempowered. Sometimes this can even happen to well-grounded skeptics.
Using the words evidence, conjecture, information and fact mean nothing when they are used without the proper understanding of those terms. I see you and your friends, like Tweeterfist, use them liberally while hardly ever demonstrating a proper use of the word.
These words tend to be the “shoddy” conspiracy theorists’ (truther) weapon(s) of choice. There’s one thing most conspiracy theorists agree on and that is that those who don’t believe in their theory is brainwashed.
It then becomes amusing when one conspiracy theorist argues another.
In fact, it’s exactly what PTB wants to happen.
Most everyone will bend information to fit their pre-existing cognitive schema, however conspiracy theorists are more extreme.
This is not an attack on conspiracy theorist as I’ve already stated that most of us are to a certain degree.
What distinguishes an intelligent one to a delusional one, is that the intelligent one will consider believable conspiracies to be
PROBABLE
until the time comes when they are truly
PROVABLE
You don’t demonstrate this at all, neither do your friends.
You all rely on your musings, and often they are wrong.
I read all the conversations on the VC regarding this issue, they are all examples of connecting disparate dots, nothing more and nothing less.
“If you want to believe that Toby and Vigilant are Illuminati agents that’s your choice”
That’s a deceptive thing to say because it’s not based on anything I have actually stated at all. It’s an example of you deferring to your imagination which distorts meaning.
I said this ” Let’s say that VC, Toby and Dantalion were truly all working together like many people seem to believe is plausible now. The idea that it was one rouge member of the forum harassing your “friend” changes, does it not?”
What that means is if this idea that they are all the same is in fact true, then the idea that one person was harassing your friend changes. All of that is plausible, not what I necessarily believe.
You then say,
“there never has been any definitive evidence to prove this and there never will be.”
What is interesting is how you follow up with “I don’t have any more evidence than you have already seen” with regards to Toby/Dantalion, admitting that you have no evidence and that you have no facts, further admitting that you subscribe to the sort of sloppy thinking in the statement above.
So, if it is not another example of you distorting the meaning of something I said unconsciously, then it must be an attempt at being deceptive. I don’t know for sure which one it is.
What I’m interested in is helping people overcome this sort of sloppy thinking, the sort of sloppy thinking that is covertly being applied to them through websites like the Vigilant Citizen. That is my aim here. Get that through your head. That is my aim.
So it matters little what I, or YOU, believe but what we can present as objective evidence. If you can present none, you have nothing but your musings, which I’ve demonstrated are questionable.
I can believe that the moon is red because one night on a full moon I observed it was red, failing to recognize that there was actually a forest fire on the other side of the lake and the flames from the fire reflected off the atmosphere and made the moon appear red, not fully understanding that the moon and the forest fire are not related.
Thinking like that makes you susceptible for manipulation by PTB. All they have to do is present seemingly correlated pieces of evidence knowing full well that people with over active imaginations, as I’ve demonstrated of you above, will connect dots where none exist. In that way multiple scenario’s can be presented, keeping people like you with sloppy reasoning processes busy while they go unnoticed changing laws and creating legislation without true and proper resistance while people like you pretend you’re doing something significant calling Mohammed a child-raping molester, believing you’re actually making an impact when all you’re doing is creating tension.
Pay attention.
You are creating tension when you let your imagination run wild with you and fail to see the tree’s from the forest.
So far you perservere in your ignorance and defend it in failing to distinguish
Probable
from
Provable
You still fail to make the distinction because in doing so you may have to admit, to your followers who are all actively reading here, that you may be wrong on this issue. You are unable to admit that you might be wrong because it pokes a hole in your messianic complex and that is a no-no when one wants others to believe in them without question.
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Chainmaker, you can go ahead and address all the point I made above, or distort them, consciously or unconsciously, but what I’m most interested in is this.
You say Dantalion = Toby
Do you think Toby = VC?
Just a simple yes or no before you go and respond to the rest of what I said above, or not.
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No I don’t think there is any possibility that Vigilant is Toby.
No I don’t think that my quick scanning of this page a week ago or so when I saw my name associated with the words “Grand Theft” and associated that theft with being a car as opposed to a diamond necklace means anything at all, or reflects on any of the rest of this.
Good job, A Team, you caught a mistake, I never claimed to be infallible. If I was in serious debate mode I would double check everything as I did in serious debates on VC, but here I am just dropping in and telling the truth about myself for the benefit of those who are interested.
I have been involved with the VC drama and have my view of Toby that is fact for me because I know my own experiences, but that doesn’t make it a fact for you. This is not a courtroom, and you can believe whatever you want! In a real debate with real evidence, the rules are strict, but there is no real evidence to be obtained when talking about forum drama. If you want to believe that Daciple and I are the same person, go for it! It’s silly but that is your choice.
As far as me calling Mohammed a child-molestor, I am fully aware that causes tension, and I know I have had an impact by repeating that fact. See, I just repeated it again. I want people to read that and be struck with tension by it, and be led to research the accusation. I know I have had a large impact on the minds of a large number of people who read what I wrote on VC.
That’s my motive, and talking about Islamic child molestation is a much more beneficial topic than Toby drama, in my humble opinion.
That’s how I fight the PTB, by pulling down the false idols that they base their wars around, by attacking evil belief systems they promote that lead to violence and abuse.
Lots of people hate me for spitting on their sacred cows.
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I’ll repeat myself for your benefit again for the third time, you told us you went to jail three times so you didn’t learn your lesson then the first time either.
You replaced fact with your fiction. It’s all in plain sight. You can try to minimize it, but we got a glimpse with the way your mind works. You’ve demonstrated that your intuition/imaginations are wrong.
You told us you have no evidence, you have no facts but “experience”. I’m telling you your experience may be wrong too, or not…
Probable does not = Provable. One is objective. Only one.
Facts are reproducible. I will demonstrate that shortly.
“No I don’t think there is any possibility that Vigilant is Toby.”
Ok good so far.
You also earlier said
“there never has been any definitive evidence to prove this and there never will be.”
and
“Based on my own experience I know it is a fact that Toby and Dantalion are the same”
even though I’ve demonstrated that your imaginations (experience) does not always equate to a fact, I want you to remember that quote.
Ok, so Dantalion/Toby cannot possibly be Vigilant Citizen.
In your mind is it probable that they have ever “worked” together in any way, or are you convinced that they are indeed enemies?
“I have been involved with the VC drama”
You have helped to create a lot of it. After Toby you’re probably VC villain #2.
” This is not a courtroom, and you can believe whatever you want!”
It’s merely the court of public opinion, at least in so far as this discussion about VC and his “helpers” go. Keep that in mind, it’s foreshadowing.
Tell your friend Daciple to come out of the shadows and show us headers., or not. I’m about done here and will begin to present some “food for thought” soon 😉
” If you want to believe that Daciple and I are the same person, go for it! It’s silly but that is your choice.”
I never said I did believe it, I presented that as being as plausible that Dantalion and Toby being the same since neither notion are based on real facts and evidence.
I’m glad you think it’s silly, then you admit your emotive based conclusions are silly by the same token.
“As far as me calling Mohammed a child-molestor, I am fully aware that causes tension, and I know I have had an impact by repeating that fact.”
I never once mentioned Mohammed, I mentioned you. You cause tension.
You think you win people over by flame baiting. You don’t. It may gain you a friend of two that thinks the same way, but you’ll turn away dozens more. This blog isn’t about you so that’s all I’m going to say about that.
” See, I just repeated it again. I want people to read that and be struck with tension by it, and be led to research the accusation.”
You don’t always base your decisions on sound research. There are better ways to motivate people than to provoke them to hate you.
“I know I have had a large impact on the minds of a large number of people who read what I wrote on VC.”
Mostly a negative impact. Does it make you happy when others are angry?
I’d also like to remind you that you’re in the wrong place for that sort of thing. You’re probably better off going back to David Icke’s forum or ATS.
The audience here, per the title of the blog, are more concerned with “sinless” Vigilant Citizen and his or their methods.
I don’t know how much your reading comprehension needs upgradingm but it seems like a lot because this blog never has been about you or Mohammed.
“That’s my motive, and talking about Islamic child molestation is a much more beneficial topic than Toby drama, in my humble opinion.”
See above, then you’re in the wrong place. This subject of this blog is Vigilant Citizen and his actions, not you and your fixation on Mohammed.
“That’s how I fight the PTB”
You help them actually.
But you’re a real internet warrior, which is your main motivation, so congratulations!
“Lots of people hate me for spitting on their sacred cows.”
–spitting on sacred cows—
and you don’t get why people don’t like you?
Again, this isn’t about you and you’re really not all important as you might believe, so just answer the question.
It’s impossible in your mind that Vigilant Citizen and Toby/Dantalion (since you believe they’re the same) never worked together before. Am I correct?
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You got me! The difference between Grand theft and Grand theft auto means I’m a total retard! lol
VC Villain #2? I’ll get a plaque for my wall, that’s something to tell my grandkids about.
This page is about whether Vigilant is Illuminati disinfo agent, but it has become an outlet for people from VC to express their opinions about all kinds of topics relating to the board, Toby just happens to be part of that. I certainly never said VC was sinless, in my view he is willfully ignorant of the spiritual truth and more concerned with building traffic than anything else.
I never came to VC to be politically correct and tell people what they want to hear. I just like to speak the truth, and the truth is Mohammed was a child molestor, among other more important things like that Jesus is the Son of God!
I never came to VC to tell everyone why their religions and belief systems are all equally moral and equally valid in the interest of not offending anyone so I could make lots of friends, I came to expose the evil, and Islam was my primary target since most of the conspiracy crowd is naturally sympathetic toward the Muslims who were framed by the Zionists on 9/11.
You can choose to believe that I help the PTB by speaking the truth about various religions and belief systems, and thus angering their adherents, but I would disagree of course.
I believe that spitting on sacred cows is good, if the cow isn’t really sacred. For instance, I spit on the name of Hitler a lot, and he was once a very major sacred cow, and he still is to a certain group of people.
Could Vigilant and Toby have ever worked together? Maybe, but they definitely are not the same person and Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.
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lol @ Chainmaker getting owned again. Whenever he starts getting owned this badly it always ends in him having a massive meltdown.
Here’s the last thread where he had the most hilarious meltdown ever:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&start=150
Half way through not only was he fighting with Muslims and “Satanists”, a word he called anyone who didn’t believe he was a “Jesus Mimic”, yep he called himself that, but he was also fighting with Gnostics, Agnostics, Christians, Atheists and everyone else that told him his anger was unbecoming.
haha Chain, you loser.
He’s starting up here much in the same way. As soon as Chain starts putting words in your mouth, it’s all downhill from there.
Here are some of his famous quotes from that thread
“I am a Jesus Mimic”
“she (pollyann a Christian that doesn’t hate all Jews like Chain) has a Jew superiority complex, and doesnt like being told that God doesnt play favorites.”
“who wants to be like polly and be a racist Jewish supremacist?
Not me.
Intolerant and confrontational.
Christlike.
No compromise.”
– here he’s talking about Pollyann a Christian, not a Jew, who doesn’t like the way he uses the Bible to spread hate.
“The entire NT is all about Jesus crapping all over your Jewish racism.”
“White trash and niggers are the same.
Crips and Bloods is what they are.
The white trash and the niggers are the most racist of anyone.”
“I emulate Jesus in my real life, in many ways.”
“Thats speaking the truth.
Jesus loves the white trash and the niggers.
He wants them to stop being lazy and get off their asses, and stop smoking crack or meth, and stop knocking up girls and running out on their kids.”
someone said he was being racist and he responded
“God loves racists.”
“Jesus was intolerant and confrontational”
“Your OP is full of Jewish-supremacist false doctrine, but you are willfully blind to it.”
here is pollyann’s a Christian response to him
“you are pretty much the first person who i’ve encountered who trys to show Christ’s love by spewing hatred.”
another Christian responded
“He’s already made it quite obvious that he would not be a Christian if it was not for the pot of gold.”
femalepharoe delivered a few knockout blows to him there
“if only Christ would have gone to the none believers
and said such things as
“you are going to hell, see ya”
he could have learned so much from you!!”
now that was funny.
Actually most of the Christians in that thread said the same thing to Chain. They ended being called Satanists by him, rotfl.
someone else pointed out that Chainmaker turns people away from the very book he pretends to support, the Bible. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a fake Christian put on the boards to do just that.
even non-Christians said this to Chain
“Chain – i pray for u tbh. It saddens me to see someone soo clearly misguided in their conviction that they are doing Gods work. You are not god. You are not jesus. You need to stop acting like u are. We are all gods children and everyone deserves to b treated w respect, especially those who we dont agree with or we feel are “lost“. That is a key teaching of jesus himself, yet somehow u missed it. I know u think im a hell bound gnostic satanist but still u have my prayers, i think u might need all the help u can get.”
Here is Chain, the Jesus-Mimic’s response to her
“I pray for you too justjess, if you reject Jesus’ atoning sacrifice on the cross you are going to hell and that is sad.”
A Christian by the name of dullflame says,
“Even if I did agree with your message, I still would disapprove of your methods of spreading it. You’re incredibly disrespectful of anyone who disagrees with you even on a tiny little detail, and you tell people they’re going to Hell when you really don’t know if you’re right or not.
Jesus would want you to respect people, Chain. Not to be a dick and attack their belief systems them, personally.”
another Christian says
“Chain,
I do not want to see you get banned.
If the Holy Spirit can be subtle and get his point across we should do the same thing too. You have to stop going from 0 to 150 miles per hour in 3 seconds. ”
another Christian tells Chain,
“How can you regard changing your approach from hate speech to conducting yourself in a respectful manner censorship? No one is telling you to censor anything. You speak to people as if they are below you on the food chain – ”
lol the grandiose idea that Chain has of himself where he influences the minds of many people is delusional. He may have an impact on them and as A Team said it’s absolutely negative. Chain seems to get most of his support from other angry, anxious Christians. IMO, they are not real Christians who understood Jesus message well at all.
FemalePharoe reminded Chainmaster that
<>
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
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Here’s Chain heaping praise on Hitler.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=187283&st=195
“Hitler’s plan was good for Germany. Oppressing other people has always led to a good material effect. Hitler built a very functional society, that in the absence of “light and dark” made plenty of good sense, and most all of the German people thought so too.”
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I can confirm that chainmaker gets a hard on from getting people angry. he’s like a little child that never got much attention from his parents and acted out, prolly what led him to a life of crime and into jail over and over again. he’s not exposing muslims or islam any more than he’s expressing hate and anger. Chain yo a hypocrite bro!
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Sarge, you must be part of the powerful Jones Group that was keeping everyone on VC under surveillance, that’s how you looked in my window to see if I had a hard-on while I was typing.
I never said I was perfect, I definitely had a few run-ins with the law, but not anything major.
The idea of White Supremacists discriminating against non-whites and killing non-whites makes me angry, so I speak against that false belief system and their false prophet Hitler.
The idea of Muslims discriminating against non-Muslims and killing non-Muslims (which happens routinely in all majority Muslim countries) makes me angry, and the idea of grown men molesting little 9-year-old girls also makes me angry, so I speak against the false child molesting prophet Mohammed and I speak against the many Muslims who emulate him and take children as wives, and I speak against those who defend what Mohammed did and I say that defending child molestation makes you no better than a child molestor.
You can choose to believe that my anger at the disgusting corruption of Islam is unjustified and misdirected, but I would disagree.
You can choose to believe and that I am a hypocrite since I attack Islam for condoning child molestation(which would mean that I am a child molestor myself), but I would of course disagree.
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You can choose to believe that my anger at the disgusting corruption of Islam is unjustified and misdirected, but I would disagree.
You can choose to believe and that I am a hypocrite since I attack Islam for condoning child molestation(which would mean that I am a child molestor myself), but I would of course disagree.
Of course you would disagree Chain, its because you are a hypocrite and need to disagree to justify your dark heart but bruh what you cant disagree with is that you have negative impact on people. if that is what you are after, yo go girl, go get em!
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oh and in my books your worse than toby ever was chain, you can tell your grandchildren that too if you ever manage to attract a girl dumb enough to merry you.
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Hey Chainmaker,
I cannot judge on the things you do over at VS’s because I have no time nor nerve to check that forum, but as far as you defended yourself towards speaking truth about the ethical value of various belief systems I totally agree with you. If in the 21 century we are still not allowed to clearly name crimes commited in the name of religions, only because of political correctness, we are truly lost in terms of human development. To abuse such knowledge only to anger people in a repetitive manner is thus a completely other topic, but I cannot judge on that as I said above. Only wanted to express my support in that other question. I you search in this thread you will find a comment of mine where I’m not politically correct towards Islam and Hinduism myself.
I also enjoyed the calm way you responded to A-Team’s questions. I am convinced that after all, you have ONE point in that discussion where the A-Team did not give enough credit: When you personally have seen proof of something with your own eyes, but cannot reproduce it for others (which is common), you may call it proof or truth for yourself and don’t need to defend it against others. But lets also conclude this: For everybody else this proof or truth of yours is NOT a fact, it’s only an other opinion and only counts as much as people give you credibility from your others actions.
To the “A” Team: I enjoyed your texts with much pleasure again. When I’m translating the words I use from german I’m not always 100% sure if the meanings completely match, like for “fact” and “evidence”, but now I’m sure they do. Thanks for putting that effort for all of us to profit.
In the meantime I’m looking forward to see your facts 😉
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Hey Gnostic Lucy Fury’ian,
What an awful name, by the way…
Anyways, I now get the quality of some of Chains posts over there. I actually agree on most of his positions in terms of part of the truths out there, but formulated like they are they are wrong, because he’s generalizing about people like Hitler did for example. And right: You cannot spread Jesus’ love by talking hate. Of course Jesus was some kind of a rebel, but remember that the only time in hundreds of stories about him he became really angry, that was with the pharisee in the temple. That tells me – anger yes – but in a sane relation to the topic at hand.
Peace, Chaukee
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“unless you’re a troll in which case Chaukeedaar can check to see if the email and IP you used are the same as the other Chainmaker”
As far as I can see there was only one “Chainmaker” commenting on that post. The e-mail address was always the same, and the IP changed in a normal way
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Chaukeedaar I chose my name for Chain’s benefit because he and Daciple labelled me a Gnostic Luciferian when I told them that they should preach the gospel differently, that is without the hatred and condemnation.
I challenged their authority on the Vigilant Citizens website and because they had been there longer and pride themselves on being some sort of authority on how one should act in relation to the scriptures, they started labeling me and turned their hatred on me.
I counted about 4-5 different people they took this stance with in the three months I was lurking and participating. They slander someone with either Gnostic Luciferian or Toby when people reveal their methods to be a total and utter failure. Only a few people tend to defend them, and these people all have similar psycho-social issues.
I agree with you 100% that amidst 100 of stories, Jesus anger was a small minority, but rather he chose to preach a gospel of love for the majority. If you tell Chain and his best friend Daciple this they will call you Gnostic, even though I never once spread the typical doctrine that they we are little Gods waiting to reconnect with the big God.
Actually Chaukeedaar, if you tell them that you are a follower of Krishna and put your faith in the Bhagavad-Gītā, he’ll promptly start spitting on your sacred cows, as he not so eloquently put it.
On the other hand, he may not out of fear of being banned or censored though. He never went after Vigilant as fiercely as he went after normal users because he knew it would limit his participation, so he may leave you alone here too. Chainmaker and his crew believe Vigilant is a Gnostic Luciferian too, but they know not to bite the hand that feeds them. In turn Vigilant lets them spread their Christianity of hate because it gives all Christians a bad name and there is a win-win going on there. In the end Chainmaker got banned because he crossed too many people by calling them Satanists and was intolerable. His hatred started dominating the religion forums and a lot of users stopped coming around. He wasn’t able to keep it on restraint and what used to be good for business, was now bad.
In the end of his time at the Vigilant Citizen forums he completely blew a gasket, you could observe it escalating when even other Christians started calling him out on his anger and hatred. He started putting words or arguments in their mouths and then started repeating one liners, like a broken record.
Stuff like this, “you can believe that I am angry, but you would be wrong and are wrong because you love Satan and not God.”
He lost the plot and his ability to keep his anger within limitations.
Anger controlled him.
He is angry
He is hateful
He uses Satan/Lucifer and his limited interpretation of the Bible to justify attack others. Personally I think it has deeper roots, like through his upbringing. Most of the time that is the case.
Oh, here is someone else trying to explain the concept of objective fact to Chainmaker, he didn’t get it then either and that was 1.5 years ago. Probably Toby in disguise there too, lol
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=187283&st=120
Dr. D – One may BELIEVE what is the truth TO THEM, but it cannot be proven to the satisfaction of the rules of evidence. And the contrary is often true of what you claim.
Becky’s Mom – Protestants came from the Catholic faith…the Catholic church put your bible together .. if they never did.. god only knows what you would be following now
Watch now as Chainmaker will ignore all of this and convince himself that people hate him because he’s the defender of truth, lol, just like he imagined stealing car from grande theft.
lol Chain, you never fail to amuse.
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face/palm Chainmaker.
I won’t explain again how you deceived yourself, it’s all there for the honest person to discern. I understand how you have to minimize it by going to extreme generalization “oh I must be retarded” because it’s embarrassing being shown errors in information processing and seeing how your imagination can trick you.
Ok Mr. Chainmaker, last question since it’s obvious that your friends, who likely made up their whole story won’t show up and defend it, ie; no evidence…no stones either 😉
Do you believe that Toby/Dantalion was responsible for the reset of the forums and therefore a nemesis of the Vigilant Citizen?
Oh and Truthseer, you’re on Toby’s forum and said he responded to you? Invite him here, I have questions for him too, that is if he isn’t Dantalion and isn’t a VC strawman.
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“When you personally have seen proof of something with your own eyes, but cannot reproduce it for others (which is common), you may call it proof or truth for yourself and don’t need to defend it against others.”
Chaukeedaar, I would acknowledge that probability, actually I think I have acknowledged a probability that Toby is Dantalion, but not based on Chainmakers testimony because he clearly said it was from other people, ie; WoWFan finding a website on Dantalion and Daciple’s emails, therefore on what other people told him.
My point was if that was good enough evidence, then he and Daciple being the same person qualifies as equally valid based on the same; the rumor mill.
What I am denying him is that he has facts, or reproducible evidence. He doesn’t so it’s not fact, it’s belief, much like faith is.
I showed how his mind creates ideas and words when they are not there. I said it’s probable that he has done this, as have his friends in the other circumstance.
That’s not evidence unfortunately. It’s just an example of an inductive error in reasoning.
Their reasoning is this, apparently Toby identified Dantalion’s true name and criticized his promotion of Mystery Babylon religions. After that Dantalion left the Vigilant Citizen. One day this Toby guy said he had enough of that place as well and messaged some of his friends on the site, one of them pasted the message in a public forum and said they were leaving too and it caused a great deal of people to leave. Then Daciple and Toby had a falling out and after that Daciple told everyone he was Dantalion, probably out of revenge.
Revenge gets the best of most people usually.
Why am I interested in all of this. Same reason you are Chaukeedaar. I think VC is misleading young minds and doing it on covert ways. It is a slow degenerative process and a direct attack to critical thinking sklls, something that is sorely lacking altogether in society.
as I said before, the difference between probable and provable is reproducible fact.
Last question to Chainmaker, who unlike his friends, has the stones to stick around and put his beliefs on the line….
Do you believe that Toby/Dantalion premeditated all of this and engineered an exit strategy for the Christians on the Viliant Citizen website without VC’s blessing and therefore is an enemy to VC? In other words, his enemy?
You may not believe that, or you may, what I’ve read is that your friends Daciple, Tweeterfist and a majority of other sheeple at the VC seem to believe this. I’m interested in your take since you’re the only one participating.
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To Chaukeedar,
I spoke against both Hinduism and Islam, Hinduism being based on the racist caste system. I spoke against every belief system but Biblical Christianity and exposed the Satanic roots of all other beliefs and philosophies. I made many enemies because I bluntly spoke my mind.
To Gnostic,
That is definitely me on the UM forums, and I am sorry that you are incapable of logically processing what I said about Hitler. That is not “lavishing praise”, I stated that what Hitler did for Germany was materially successful, aside from morality. If I go out and kill someone and take their wallet, that is materially good for me, I just gained the money in their wallet.
Just the same as my statements about niggers and white trash are obviously not racist, and speak to the mentality of that faction of whites and blacks, so have all my statements about Hitler been obviously not racist.
I have often spoken against Zionism, which is the religion of Jewish-supremacism, and I spoke against the Zionist Christians on the board like pollyann and Cheers who support US wars in the Middle East because they believe that Jews have a God-given right to steal and murder to reclaim the land and that Christians have a God-given duty to defend Israel’s right to steal and murder. I called these Zionist Christians racist warmongers, and they are, even if they refuse to comprehend that fact. Jesus did not command Christians to support Jewish wars.
Pollyann is a Christian of Jewish heritage who considers herself part of the race of Chosen People who deserve the land stolen from Palestinians.
I said that God loves racists, he loves white trash, he loves niggers. God loves everyone no matter how despicable their actions, but he does not love them for their despicable actions, he loves them in spite of it.
I always said what the Bible clearly says, that no one is saved without belief in Jesus’ atoning sacrifice on the cross, that no one saves themselves through any kind of Gnostic path to knowledge or any kind of transcendental meditation.
I preached against Gnostic Christianity, I said that it is indeed Luciferian and that no one following that ideology will be saved, because they reject what Jesus clearly says in the Bible about how to be saved.
“In the end Chainmaker got banned because he crossed too many people by calling them Satanists and was intolerable.”
That I agree with.
Gnostics, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Wiccans, and Hexa/Zsymon Light Soul Religion moral relativist witches do not like to hear what the Bible says.
The Bible says they are condemned.
I attacked false belief systems, said what the Bible says about it all, and that pissed a lot of people off, that was intolerant hate according to them.
Jesus did not show love for the false teachings of false teachers.
Jesus preached peace and love as a way of life, but he did not preach peace and love toward false belief systems, he told his followers to spread the gospel that his sacrifice is the ONLY WAY to salvation.
Your allegation that Daciple and I never went after Vigilant’s Gnosticism is wrong. Daciple challenged Vigilant to a debate about his “mystic Christianity” on the old board, and Vigilant responded once and then refused to continue the debate after Daciple’s rebuttal destroyed his arguments. Since then, Vigilant has stated multiple times that his spiritual beliefs are personal and he will not argue religion. Both Daciple and I respected that.
Vigilant is most concerned with building traffic for his site, he is not concerned with the spiritual truth. If Vigilant were to take a fundamentalist Christian stance, he would alienate most of his audience. Regardless of Vigilant’s spiritual views, the Christians on the message boards take the opportunity to debate religion.
You posted part of John 3 from femalepharoe,
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
but you forgot to add the rest.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
The rest is what a lot of people hated me for consistently preaching.
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Chainmaker, I’m not interested in your life story, you’ll notice I never asked you why you went to jail, how you know Daciple, etc. I don’t care. I also don’t care about your rationalizations for being hateful and provocative, in the end that will be between you and God. Lastly, I’m not going to argue about how you manipulate what people say into meaning something different. I just recognize the inherent dishonesty in that.
I am interested in this. Just answer this for me please
Do you believe that Toby/Dantalion premeditated all of this and engineered an exit strategy for the Christians on the Viliant Citizen website without VC’s blessing and therefore is an enemy to VC? In other words, his enemy?
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Thanks a lot Gnostic Lucy Fury’ian for your insights and views! Your thoughts sound reasonable to me. Calling everybody a Satanist or Gnostic only helps to wear off the meaning to those words…
Greetz, Chaukee
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A Team,
I would like to congratulate you again on again pointing out the mistake I made in reading fast and adding an “auto” to “grand theft” If you or anyone else wants to use that mistake as reasoning to disregard anything I have to say as unreliable, then go for it! That’s your choice. My opinion of course would be that you are being ridiculous and silly, and grasping at straws. I will expect to hear some more in your next post about how this demonstrates my total lack of intellectual reliability.
I know Daciple in real life, and I know Daciple’s own past suspicions about Vigilant due to Vigilant’s claim of “mystic Christianity” and I know Daciple’s own past suspicions about Vigilant and Toby being aligned in some way.
Vigilant sought me out, to speak to me about this situation last spring. I was posting under some other name months after my first banning, after the TruthFiles drama during which time I had been away, after the board reset, after the banning of everyone associated with TruthFiles. Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.
From that conversation, I have no doubt that Vigilant was just as deluded by Toby’s games as everyone else, because he did not understand at all what what going on from the perspective of Daciple and the other TF Christians.
Daciple did not do anything out of revenge, Daciple was misled by Toby as was I and many others.
Now again, you can believe whatever you want. What is fact to me is not fact to you because I do not have Exhibits A through Z and you can believe whatever you like.
Vigilant is not part of the Illuminati. Vigilant is a guy who made his own website and spreads some good information but willfully rejects the fundamental Christian truth that the existence of Satanic occult conspiracy strongly suggests. Vigilant’s primary motive now, in my opinion, is now making money from the site. I can easily put myself in his shoes and understand his desire to reap the financial benefits of that site. I believe Vigilant had some advertisement deal with Dantalion in the past.
Vigilant doesn’t like it when people like me piss off large sections of his audience on his message board, because he worries that it will lower traffic.
I am of the opinion, as are some others, that my polarizing presence there livened the place up and probably attracted some traffic.
Truly, when I enter a thread it often becomes very popular.
And almost lastly, I am not writing only for you A Team, I am writing to the people who have addressed me and to the entire audience, so I really am not concerned with whether or not you want to read my justifications.
And lastly, I don’t think I have been dishonest or manipulated anyone into saying anything they didn’t say, I think that people say what they say and I give my view of what it is they say, they type their words and I type mine, I am not capable of editing their posts.
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Chainmaker,
Personally I don’t think it’s wise to look past how your own mind deceived you, but you do what makes you happy.
If you and your friends don’t understand errors in inductive reasoning, you should study them. You are all guilty.
“I am not writing only for you A Team”
That doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to repeat questions for you that you skipped over.
“Daciple was misled by Toby as was I and many others”
I think Daciple mislead himself, as you do/did. You even mention you weren’t around when truthfiles started, so how you were mislead is amazing.
“Now again, you can believe whatever you want. What is fact to me is not fact to you because I do not have Exhibits A through Z and you can believe whatever you like.”
Rationalizations for the fact that you and Daciple rely on your paranoid imaginations, for the most part. Daciple admitted he believed that the rules for the old boards were made because of him. Delusions of grandeur. Common amongst those who are paranoid. Daciple also fits the text book definition of a paranoid schizophrenic. I already said about that most of us are conspiracy theorists to some degree, some of us are rational about it, others paranoid. When you start believing things revolve around you, you start getting paranoid. I’m not surprised Daciple was in a half way house.
“My opinion of course would be that you are being ridiculous and silly, and grasping at straws”
Exactly the same way you guys connected disparate dots to link Dantalion to Toby, but don’t let me say it for you, let you say it for yourself. Toby attacks Dantalion, Dantalion leaves, Toby spends 4 months preaching Christianity, leaves, some follow on their own volition, they have a falling out and the rest of them go back to vigilant citizen and because WoWfan found some pics archived of Toby vs Dantalion you guys connect the dots. Funny evidence. Paranoid actually.
That’s like someone watching me and you and then drawing the conclusion we’re the same. That’s what you guys do. How many people did you chase off of the Vigilant Citizen by labelling them Toby or Gnostic Luciferian? You guys are tyrants. Maybe people don’t like that? Nah, forget it. It couldn’t possibly be. It’s because you are a Jesus Mimic, yep that must be it.
“Truly, when I enter a thread it often becomes very popular.”
Delusions of grandeur and further insight that you do it for you own personal gain because you continue to fail to recognize that the way you talk turns people away more than it brings them closer. You and I may even share a lot of the same philosophy of things, but it’s your arrogance and your overly aggressive way of addressing people that is wrong. You interpret that aspect of Jesus personality in the same manner to justify your behavior. I think you’re a perfect example of a Christian giving people the wrong idea of what a Christian is. You can preach your message in a different way. Chaukeedaar even acknowledges that above.
Your presence here is actually important though, not for the reason you think though 🙂
“I don’t think I have been dishonest or manipulated anyone into saying anything they didn’t say”
That’s because you have internal blinders on. You fail to acknowledge that because it’s painful to you. Self deception is the worst kind of deception.
Here’s an example of how you try to deceive. After manipulating what someone has said, changing words to become accusations and therefore altering the meaning, in short putting words in their mouth and getting caught out for it, you further fuel it by creating a new meaning for being caught out:
“I am not capable of editing their posts.”
This below interests me the most because this is the third time I asked and I find it curious as to why you go to the lengths you have to avoid answering.
Chainmaker says,
“Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.”
Chainmaker says,
“Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.”
In your discussions with VC did he ever allude to the second statement of yours above?
And again, fourth time
“Do you believe that Toby/Dantalion premeditated all of this and engineered an exit strategy for the Christians on the Viliant Citizen website without VC’s blessing and therefore is an enemy to VC? In other words, his enemy?”
Do you believe that Toby/Dantalion and VC are enemies, or working against each other? Simple yes or no, please save us the derail and distractions.
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I wasn’t around for TruthFiles, but I was around when Toby/Dantalion first showed up and I had communication with him.
There is a difference between paranoia and legitimate suspicion. That is a fine line though. People end up in trouble with the law for many reasons, and it usually doesn’t have anything to do with paranoia. Daciple’s time in a halfway house certainly wasn’t due to paranoia. Actually, I would think that paranoia is a mindset that would generally tend to keep a person out of trouble with the law, since paranoia would induce a person to be wary and cautious of getting caught.
Daciple was not paranoid to believe that Vigilant instituted new rules in the religion forum because of him, because he didn’t believe it was solely because of him, he believed it was leveled against fundamentalist Christians in general, and it was, as a result of the anti-free speech demands for censorship by Muslims and pagans who hate having their religions denigrated by free expression of the truth.
I never chased anyone off the site, I always stood for total free speech, everyone knows that. I never called for anyone to be banned.
Now again, I am not capable of editing anyone’s posts, so your accusation that I am manipulating people’s words to say what they did not say is your deception, not mine.
I merely respond to what people say, their words are their own and I do not seek to change their words, and I have not changed anyone’s words.
I already answered your questions about what I believe about Toby/Dantalion and Vigilant’s relation to him.
Perhaps you missed that.
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I’m happy you persist in this sort of game Chainmaker
“Now again, I am not capable of editing anyone’s posts, so your accusation that I am manipulating people’s words to say what they did not say is your deception, not mine.”
putting words into others mouths, then dismissing it by creating a straw man argument above (I can’t edit their comments) is dishonest, deceptive, and a direct indication into how you not only deceive yourself (imagining meaning) but also attempt to manipulate others. Self deception is the worst kind, but you do what makes you happy.
On your assertions about Daciple, let’s save that for another inquiry shall we 😉 I have a lot more to say about your friend and his paranoia/anxiety another time.
I just want to note that this is the 5th time you dodged this question
“Do you believe that Toby/Dantalion premeditated all of this and engineered an exit strategy for the Christians on the Viliant Citizen website without VC’s blessing and therefore is an enemy to VC? In other words, his enemy?”
Is Toby/Dantalion an enemy of VC in your estimation, yes or no? Daciple and Tweeterfist believe it to be so,and since they are in your camp one can assume it is so for you, but I’d rather hear it from you.
You’ve said you don’t believe that VC is Toby/Dantalion and that neither are illuminati so far.
Simple yes or no to the other question will suffice.
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I’m definitely tired of the games. God bless ya A Team, I already answered your question and you missed it.
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Ok so you believe that they (Dantalion/Toby) are enemies (with VC) just like your friend Daciple and Tweeterfist believe the same. If they ever had some sort of agreement, then it was over when the board reset happened and from that point forward because of what had happened, VC was against Dantalion/Toby (two separate people, but for the purpose of this discussion we will hypothesize alongside your paranoid delusions that they are the same person).
Since VC contacted you and worked with you to bring Daciple and Tweeterfist back to VC and made Tweeterfist a mod, then VC can in no possible way be connected to Dantalion/Toby and Dantalion/Toby were solely responsible for reseting the boards, contacting your friend Daciple via email numerous times and harassing him. It is also not possible, in your mind, that there was no vendetta against Daciple due to this
“Daciple challenged Vigilant to a debate about his “mystic Christianity” on the old board, and Vigilant responded once and then refused to continue the debate after Daciple’s rebuttal destroyed his arguments.”
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By the way, anyone notice the Mega chat thread just disappeared?
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Bahaha.
Thats what happens when the author of the thread, nykballa, account gets deleted.
Duh.
Stop stirring it douche >.<.
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When someone does a search for duh, douche and bahaha separately on the VC website two names come up that use these terms the most:
Kissthegyrl (a mom?)
one1lastcaress (don’t know who this is?)
Not that one should draw any conclusions from that, just saying. Might mean something, and probably doesn’t. Maybe Chauk can look and see if their IP’s or emails are significant, maybe not.
Like the rest of the VC shills and troll bots they will probably be attracted to something else to feed their deficit in attention soon enough.
Oh and Anonymous, there’s no ‘e’ at the end of that word, unless you consider yourself a small insignificant rodent, in which case…carry on.
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Small insignificant rodent? lawlz.
Learn to value all respect all life ‘A’ team. U aint any better.
How about you attack the argument instead of a credibility of a poster….
And who r u anyway? You seem to talk alot, yet probably wernt even around when toby was on the forums.
U just admitted u dont even know who 1last is, who was a big member on the 1st boards, so what gives you any merit behind your arguments?
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Ok Mr. Mouse, not insignificant, but a small rodent it is.
and…there was no argument to attack, just a painfully written insult.
You’re right, I don’t know who 1last is, but based on what I’ve read so far, he’s a dumb ass vacant minded “douche” 😉
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Not nyk’s thread, the Mega Chat sub forum thread
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It’s 1onelast, Taipy’s fake internet bf, he writes like this, uses douche and duh. He also breaks his sentences into 4 to 5 lines
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Sorry, A-Team, no comment of one1lastcaress or 1onelast, so nothing to compare IPs or e-mail addresses…
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Quote:
And surprise surprise, Hexa_404 edited none of your posts WHATSOEVER.
Me:
You know his name now is Hex. Can you confirm NO MOD and NO ADMIN edited it?
Also, tell me if I said Toby is good, as you imply, why were Chain and Dac not murdering me on the forums for SAYING THAT?
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Ok Lesson/Part 1
What is an outbound link?
I’ll explain the significance of this later on. For now, let’s understand that web pages that direct to a link outside of the site are called outbound links.
http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/outbound_link/
Do a simple google search for more detailed information.
Conversely an inbound link is a link from another website directly to yours.
http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/inbound_link/
Often times two websites will link to each other in order to get more exposure. Generally, the more inbound links you have the better it is for search engine optimization (SEO).
There are numerous strategies for generating inbound links, and one of them is cross linking or link-exchange programs also called reciprocal linking. Another way is simply by purchasing ad space on another popular website.
http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/reciprocal_links/
A webmaster, or owner of one site may contact another to inquire into the possibility of linking with each other thereby helping to scratch each others backs and benefit their respective SEO rankings.
Linking to another site can be done in several ways. You can put a picture up on your website and link the picture to another site, or directly within the blog article itself.
Not all links are created equally.
http://www.marketingterms.com/dictionary/link_popularity/
For example, placing a link in your blog comments can also count as an inbound link, but I think these are not rated as strongly by google for their ranking algorithm but I am not sure…they don’t publish how they rank sites and most of it is by trial and error.
End Part 1
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Lesson/Part 2 (part 1 hasn’t been approved yet, probably because of the links within it)
Self-Deception:
“Humans deceive themselves in order to better deceive others”
“Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.
Self-deception calls into question the nature of the individual, specifically in a psychological context and the nature of “self”. Irrationality is the foundation upon which the argued paradoxes of self-deception stem, and it is argued that not everyone has the “special talents” and capacities for self-deception.[3] However, rationalization is influenced by a myriad of factors, including socialization, personal biases, fear, and cognitive repression. Such rationalization can be manipulated in both positive and negative fashions; convincing one to perceive a negative situation optimistically and vice versa. In contrast, rationalization alone cannot effectively clarify the dynamics of self-deception, as reason is just one adaptive form mental processes can take.” – “Self-Deceptive and the Nature of Mind” by Mark Johnston
“Though the term is difficult to define, examples of self-deception are abundant in varying degrees. Simple instances of self-deception include common occurrences such as: the alcoholic who is self-deceived in believing that his drinking is under control, the husband who is self-deceived in believing that his wife is not having an affair, the jealous colleague who is self deceived in believing that her colleague’s greater professional success is due to ruthless ambition.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deception
Deception is the hiding or distorting of the truth. For example, not delineating how one came to a conclusion but responding that –what is fact or truth to one person is not fact or truth to another–, while failing to recognize that facts are reproducible pieces of evidence is just not honest.
This statement on facts and truth must be recognized as a very curious one to be made by a Fundamentalist Christian who believes in {absolute truth} and not {relative truth} or morality. Holding the latter [relative truth, ie; what is fact to you may not be fact to me], while believing the former [relative truth] is a paradox. Congratulations for your paradoxical beliefs Chainmaker. You said it. I only recognized it 😉
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Lesson/Part 3
Can we pull the wool over our own eyes or do we see through our mind games?
In theory the one person we should never, ever, lie to is ourselves. Surely lying to ourselves is counter-productive? Like calmly and deliberately shooting yourself in the foot or taking a hot toasting fork and plunging it into your eye?
But look around and it’s not hard to spot the tell-tale symptoms of self-deception in other people. So perhaps we are also deceiving ourselves in ways we can’t clearly perceive? But is that really possible and would we really believe the lies that we ‘told’ ourselves anyway? That’s what Quattrone & Tversky (1984) explored in a classic social psychology experiment published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.
Lies, damn lies and psychologists
Any study of self-deception is going to involve a fair amount of bare-faced lying, and Quattrone & Tversky’s (1984) research was no different. They recruited 38 students who were told they were going to take part in a study about the “psychological and medical aspects of athletics”. Not true, in fact the researchers were going to trick participants into thinking that how long they could submerge their arms in cold water was diagnostic of their health status, when really it showed just how ready people are to deceive themselves. This is how they did it.
The participants were first asked to plunge their arms into cold water for as long as they could. The water was pretty cold and people could only manage this for 30 or 40 seconds. Then participants were given some other tasks to do to make them think they really were involved in a study about athletics. They had a go on an exercise bike and were given a short lecture about life expectancy and how it related to the type of heart you have. They were told there were two types of heart:
Type I heart: associated with poorer health, shorter life expectancy and heart disease.
Type II heart: associated with better health, longer life expectancy and low risk of heart disease.
Half were told that people with Type II hearts (apparently the ‘better’ type) have increased tolerance to cold water after exercise while the other half that it decreased tolerance to cold water. Except of course this was all lies only made up to make participants think that how long they could hold their arm under water was a measure of their health, with half thinking cold-tolerance was a good sign and half thinking it was a bad sign.
Now time for the test: participants had another go at putting their arms into the cold water for as long as they could. The graph below shows the average results before and after all the blatant lying (in the name of science of course!)
As you can see the experimental manipulation had a strong effect. People who thought it was a sign of a healthy heart to hold their arms underwater for longer did just that, while those who believed the reverse all of a sudden couldn’t take the cold. That’s all well and good, but were these people really lying to themselves or just the experimenters and did they believe those lies?
Hook, line and sinker
After the arm-dunking each participant was asked whether they had intentionally changed the amount of time they held their arms underwater. Of the 38 participants, 29 denied it and 9 confessed, but not directly. Many of the 9 confessors claimed the water had changed temperature. It hadn’t of course, this was just a way for people to justify their behaviour without directly facing their self-deception.
All the participants were then asked whether they believed they had a healthy heart or not. Of the 29 deniers, 60% believed they had the healthier type of heart. However of the confessors only 20% thought they had the healthier heart. What this suggests is that the deniers were more likely to be truly deceiving themselves and not just trying to cover up their deception. They really did think that the test was telling them they had a healthy heart. Meanwhile the confessors tried to tell a lie back to the experimenter (seems only fair!), but privately the majority acknowledged they were deceiving themselves.
This experiment is neat because it shows the different gradations of self-deception, all the way up to its purest form, in which people manage to trick themselves hook, line and sinker. At this level people think and act as though their incorrect belief is completely true, totally disregarding any incoming hints from reality.
So what this study suggests is that for many people self-deception is as easy as pie. Not only will many people happily lie to themselves if given a reason, but they will only look for evidence that confirms their comforting self-deception, and then totally believe in the lies they are telling themselves.
Explains a lot, don’t you think?
– http://www.spring.org.uk/2009/10/the-truth-about-self-deception.php
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Lesson/Part 4
Do you believe everything you read?
You shouldn’t believe everything you read, yet according to a classic psychology study at first we can’t help it.
What is the mind’s default position: are we naturally critical or naturally gullible? As a species do we have a tendency to behave like Agent Mulder from the X-Files who always wanted to believe in mythical monsters and alien abductions? Or are we like his partner Agent Scully who was the critical scientist, generating alternative explanations, trying to understand and evaluate the strange occurrences they encountered rationally?
Do we believe what the TV, the newspapers, blogs even, tell us at first blush or are we naturally critical? Can we ignore the claims of adverts, do we lap up what politicians tell us, do we believe our lover’s promises?
It’s not just that some people do and some people don’t; in fact all our minds are built with the same first instinct, the same first reaction to new information. But what is it: do we believe first or do we first understand, so that belief (or disbelief) comes later?
Descartes versus Spinoza
This argument about whether belief is automatic when we are first exposed to an idea or whether belief is a separate process that follows understanding has been going on for at least 400 years. The French philosopher, mathematician and physicist René Descartes (below, right) argued that understanding and believing are two separate processes. First people take in some information by paying attention to it, then they decide what to do with that information, which includes believing or disbelieving it.
Descartes’ view is intuitively attractive and seems to accord with the way our minds work, or at least the way we would like our minds to work.
The Dutch philosopher Baruch Spinoza, a contemporary of Descartes, took a quite different view. He thought that the very act of understanding information was believing it. We may, he thought, be able to change our minds afterwards, say when we come across evidence to the contrary, but until that time we believe everything.
Spinoza’s approach is unappealing because it suggests we have to waste our energy rooting out falsities that other people have randomly sprayed in our direction, whether by word of mouth, TV, the internet or any other medium of communication.
So who was right, Spinoza or Descartes?
How many years in jail?
Daniel Gilbert and colleagues put these two theories head-to-head in a series of experiments to test whether understanding and belief operate together or whether belief (or disbelief) comes later (Gilbert et al., 1993).
In their classic social psychology experiment seventy-one participants read statements about two robberies then gave the robber a jail sentence. Some of the statements were designed to make the crime seem worse, for example the robber had a gun, and others to make it look less serious, for example the robber had starving children to feed.
The twist was that only some of the statements were true, while others were false. Participants were told that all the statements that were true would be displayed in green type, while the false statement would be in red. Here’s the clever bit: half the participants where purposefully distracted while they were reading the false statements while the other half weren’t.
In theory if Spinoza was correct then those who were distracted while reading the false statements wouldn’t have time to process the additional fact that the statement was written in red and therefore not true, and consequently would be influenced by it in the jail term they gave to the criminal. On the other hand if Descartes was right then the distraction would make no difference as participants wouldn’t have time to believe or not believe the false statements so they wouldn’t make any difference to the jail term.
And the winner is…
The results showed that when the false statements made the crime seem much worse rather than less serious, the participants who were interrupted gave the criminals almost twice as long in jail, up from about 6 years to around 11 years.
By contrast the group in which participants hadn’t been interrupted managed to ignore the false statements. Consequently there was no significant difference between jail terms depending on whether false statements made the crime seem worse or less serious.
This meant that only when given time to think about it did people behave as though the false statements were actually false. On the other hand, without time for reflection, people simply believed what they read.
Gilbert and colleagues carried out further experiments to successfully counter some alternative explanations of their results. These confirmed their previous findings and led them to the rather disquieting conclusion that Descartes was in error and Spinoza was right.
Believing is not a two-stage process involving first understanding then believing. Instead understanding is believing, a fraction of a second after reading it, you believe it until some other critical faculty kicks in to change your mind. We really do want to believe, just like Agent Mulder.
Believe first, ask questions later {{sometimes never asking questions at all, hint hint}}
http://www.flickr.com/photos/spike55151/14401063/
Not only that, but their conclusions, and those of Spinoza, also explain other behaviours that people regularly display:
Correspondence bias: this is people’s assumption that others’ behaviour reflects their personality, when really it reflects the situation.
Truthfulness bias: people tend to assume that others are telling the truth, even when they are lying.
The persuasion effect: when people are distracted it increases the persuasiveness of a message.
Denial-innuendo effect: people tend to positively believe in things that are being categorically denied.
Hypothesis testing bias: when testing a theory, instead of trying to prove it wrong people tend to look for information that confirms it. This, of course, isn’t very effective hypothesis testing!
When looked at in light of Spinoza’s claim that understanding is believing, these biases and effects could result from our tendency to believe first and ask questions later. Take the correspondence bias: when meeting someone who is nervous we may assume they are a nervous person because this is the most obvious inference to make. It only occurs to us later that they might have been worried because they were waiting for important test results.
If all this is making your feel rather uncomfortable then you’re not alone. Gilbert and colleagues concede that our credulous mentality seems like bad news. It may even be an argument for limiting freedom of speech. After all, if people automatically believe everything they see and hear, we have to be very careful about what people see and hear.
Benefits of belief
Gilbert and colleagues counter this by arguing that too much cynicism is not a good thing. Minds working on a Decartian model would only believe things for which they had hard evidence. Everything else would be neither believed or not believed, but in a state of limbo.
The problem is that a lot of the information we are exposed to is actually true, and some of it is vital for our survival. If we had to go around checking our beliefs all the time, we’d never get anything done and miss out on some great opportunities.
Minds that work on a Spinozan model, however, can happily believe as a general rule of thumb, then check out anything that seems dodgy later. Yes, they will often believe things that aren’t true, but it’s better to believe too much and be caught out once in a while than be too cynical and fail to capitalise on the useful and beneficial information that is actually true.
Or maybe by going along with this argument I’m being gullible and the harsh truth is that it’s a basic human failing that we are all too quick to take things at face value and too slow to engage our critical faculties. I’ll leave you to ponder that one.
http://www.spring.org.uk/2009/09/why-you-cant-help-believing-everything-you-read.php
beliefs are not always based on facts, although many times we believe, funny, our beliefs are fact.
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What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.
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Part of deceiving oneself or others entails repeating the same wrong conclusion over and over. That’s part of what you do. I digress, let’s keep those aspects in the comment threading above.
Please wait till I am done Chainmaker, I know it’s hard for you to not make everything about you, but in this case maybe you can show some restraint till the end and not disrupt anymore herein. A simple request on my part.
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Part of deceiving oneself or others entails repeating the same wrong conclusion over and over. That’s part of what you do. I digress, let’s keep those aspects in the comment threading above.
Please wait till I am done Chainmaker, I know it’s hard for you to not make everything about you, but in this case maybe you can show some restraint till the end and not disrupt anymore herein. A simple request on my part.
If you want to answer this question here, by all means
“Do you believe Dantalion/Toby and VC are true enemies, not working together, and otherwise each other’s nemesis?”
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I was waiting for my turn to be called Toby.
The Sarge on VC doesn’t write with the sort of coherence that we find above, but nice try.
When I show you the screen shots I collected and the conclusions that may be probable, you’re going to feel stupid calling me Toby because Toby wouldn’t do what I’m about to do to Toby/Dantalion, or would he? You just make sure you keep coming back to find out 😉
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It’s amazing how people are still responding to the fake sarge accounts on this page.
Funny how, every time I supposedly make a post, truthseer is the first to respond. You can figure it out.
Chainmaker, I never posted anything to you on this page, that was a fake. The last (only) thing I wrote on this page was directed at Toby (KittieKat) who exposed something about my personal life that only he knew about.
As your well aware by now Chain, “A” Team is also a Toby account.(obvious by the frequency and effort in countering arguments, who would go through this with such effort) I simply came here to entertain myself, and I wasn’t disappointed. This guy definitely is obsessed.
No point in taking this any further Chain.
I won’t be visiting this page again from this point onwards, as there is no point mentioning anything more. ( Just enjoy being trolled by truthseer , toby and their fake sarge accounts)
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I was waiting for my turn to be called Toby. 😀
I feel like a celebrity now.
The Sarge on VC doesn’t write with the sort of coherence that we find above, but nice try.
When I show you the screen shots I collected and the conclusions that may be probable, you’re going to feel stupid calling me Toby because Toby wouldn’t do what I’m about to do to Toby/Dantalion, or would he? You just make sure you keep coming back to find out 😉
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It couldn’t have something with the fact that you attack me?
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It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s you behind the fake sarge above Tobite!
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The Sarge above is fake, and prolly just made to make me look stupid for accusing everyone to be Toby, even though I do beleive that Toby is behind most of the people here, and KittiePinkyPie I think you are one of them or at least are being controlled by Toby. Chainmaker is as bad as Toby if not worse, when things didn’t go his way on the VC forums with Amne he started attacking her father just to get a rise out of her. Like I said before, he gets personal and if that’s what Christianity is all about your never going to convince a Muslim that it has truth.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3408&p=126265&hilit=Chainmaker#p126265
It was all in that thread, and also the same thread that Chainmaker got BibleHackJack banned by repeatedly calling him Toby, but BHJ got back on after Vigilant confirmed he was not Toby, that was before Chainmaker had his own racist meltdown which included racially slurring Amne’s Dad.
Your no better Chainmaker.
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Oh and A Team, I can write well when I put effort into it. Just because I use slang doesn’t make me dumb.
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Amne brought her father into a discussion about Islam, I did not bring her father into the discussion.
I gave my view of her father, which is that, as a Palestinian Muslim, if he does not support war against the Zionist occupiers he is one of the hypocrite Muslims the Qur’an refers to who refuse to fight against those who make war on Muslims. I told Amne the same thing many times, that in my reading of the Qur’an it is obvious that the fundamentalist Muslims who war against Israel are following Mohammed’s commandments in the Qur’an, and those Muslims who refuse to fight the Zionists are hypocrites who Mohammed says will go to hell. I probably told you the same thing at some point Sarge, the Qur’an is clear, if you are not supporting actual resistance against the Zionists you are a coward and a hypocrite deserving of hell according to the words in the Qur’an written by the child-molesting warlord named Mohammed.
I did not say this to get a rise out of Amne, I said it because it is my view of what the Qur’an says, I said it in the context of religious debate. By speaking the blunt truth, I get a rise from Muslims regardless, because I spit on their sacred cow and tell them the truth that infuriates them. It is a truth that they believe no one should be allowed to say, even though the verses about cowardly hypocrites who run from battle are found in their own Qur’an.
There was absolutely no racial slur made by me against Amne’s father in that thead, or anywhere else on the board, anyone can read it for themselves.
Since you made a false accusation against me that makes you a liar Sarge, but you wouldn’t be the only one who lies about me because they despise the truth I speak, there’s is a long list of people who love to defame me.
I believed that Bible Hack Jack was Toby, his writing style and tactics were extremely similar. I never asked for him to be banned, I never wanted anyone banned, I always stood for total free speech.
If it were up to me, no one would ever have been banned from VC, except for spambots.
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lol @ Chainmaker and Sarge having a lovers quarrel.
Chainmaker, BibleHackJack wasn’t the only one you and your team of “Christian” hitmen marked with the Toby straw man in order to silence them.
You guys repeatedly use the same tactic (since you’re talking tactics) to slander anyone who doesn’t tow your line of thinking. You’re trying to do the same thing here but thinly veiled. You fool no one. You believe what VC told you, and after doing his bidding you got axed from the board, lulz.
The interesting thing is that BibleHackJack never said anything Gnostic, he just said your way of preaching is flawed and wrong, something that the majority of other Christians not under your wing agreed with. Then you had your meltdown, which was awesome really because all that anger you were spewing to everyone else turned inwards and you blew up yourself.
The other obvious bit of information you glossed over was that after BibleHackJack was banned because of you and your clans continuous claim that he was Toby, Vigilant reversed the ban. Why? If Vigilant is so scared of Toby then either
a) he confirmed for sure that BibleHack was not Toby? or
b) he really is not that afraid of Toby afterall?
And you fool no one by pretending that Amne was to blame for you attacking her and the Muslim religion. As soon as she brought him into the discussion you twisted her words around to try and thinly veil an attack/provoke her into anger by “stipulating” (thanks for the new use of the word Sarge) her father into the argument. You fool no one, you really don’t, or you think your audience is really stupid just because you managed to fool a few lost Christians into believing you are their defender in faith.
Funny stuff.
Keep it coming…
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Bible Hack Jack was preaching Gnostic Gospels, if not outright preaching Gnosticism. He may not have been Toby, but his style and tactics were very similar.
According to Amne, her father got caught up in some trouble with the U.S. government being accused of supporting violent Palestinian Muslims.
Amne brought that up, and I gave my point of view based on the Qur’an, which is that if he is a real Muslim according to the Qur’an he has a duty to support Muslim war against the Zionists, so if he wasn’t actually aiding the Palestinian extremists that makes him a hypocrite according to the Qur’an along with the majority of the rest of the Muslim world who do not follow Mohammed’s commands to violence against those who oppress Muslims.
Nothing racist about it, nothing twisted around.
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Part/Lesson 5 – Recognizing paranoia and schizophrenic tendencies (one doesn’t have to see images or hear voices to be afflicted with varying degree’s of schizophrenia)
from: http://www.schizophrenia.com/family/perstory5.htm
“In my own case it was just over a decade ago when my brother began to sound different on the phone. He lived back East and my parents and I were living on the West coast and in phone calls it became apparent that my brother’s voice no longer had the same tones of excitement and humor that he used to; and instead it was very flat. At the same time he began to tell us about a situation at work that just didn’t seem possible; he was complaining that a group of fellow workers were conspiring to get him.
My brother was fresh out of college and was starting in a Sales job at a fast growing computer company and said that there was jealousy by the other salespeople there because many of them didn’t have a college degree and that he was on the “fast track”. Then he started telling us that he wasn’t feeling very good and that he thought that one of these scheming co-workers had stuck him with a needle with some unknown drug so as to take him out of competition for the top jobs in the company. He also said he felt strange, and didn’t have much energy and couldn’t concentrate.
Obviously this whole story seemed very unbelievable and we sensed something was wrong but had no clue as to what it could be. We recommended that my brother quit his job and look for something else – as we began to wonder if he had a “mental breakdown” and would get better once out of the stressful job situation. A month or two after he quit his job he suddenly began calling me from payphones because he thought that people were bugging his phone and that famous business people in the country were trying to get his new business ideas. This was so “far out” as to be entirely unbelieveable and we suddenly realized that something was very clearly and seriously wrong – what exactly that was took us another 5 years to find out definitively, which is the saddest part. We went through a number psychiatrists and psychologists who thought he was fine or only a little paranoid (he always seemed to pull together enough to present a reasonable front to the psychiatrists but we knew the old John, and something was still definitely wrong – but you keep hoping that they are right and that he just needed a few months to get back on his feet).
My recommendation to people who are either wondering if they have schizophrenia or wondering if a friend or loved one has schizophrenia – is to first contact talk with people in the schizophrenia.com discussion areas, or contact the Local NAMI (in the USA), or Schizophrenia Society (in Canada), and visit one of their meetings to talk with other parents or family members and get a recommended psychiatrist from them who is experienced with schizophrenia. I think one of our key problems was that we didn’t do this in the early days of my brother’s illness (though misdiagnosis sounds very common in schizophrenia cases) – and because of this we may have missed the opportunity to get treatment. This lack of treatment during the early years of the illness, research now suggests, could have been a key factor in his ultimately poor recovery and suicide.
After a few meetings with psychiatrists – and no improvement in my brother’s condition – he became disillusioned with the medical profession and would no longer see doctors. It took us almost 6 years until he then degenerated to the state where he could he had become so delusional that he had to be hospitalized. If we had gotten him medication much earlier I think he would still be alive today.
B.”
“Daciple was not paranoid to believe that Vigilant instituted new rules in the religion forum because of him, because he didn’t believe it was solely because of him, he believed it was leveled against fundamentalist Christians in general, and it was, as a result of the anti-free speech demands for censorship by Muslims and pagans who hate having their religions denigrated by free expression of the truth.”
So the Muslims and Pagans were conspiring against the Christians and had rules made which stated things like no insults, etc, to silence them? Funny, text book paranoid belief pattern right there. But you’re wrong, or lying, because Daciple did actually say he initially thought it was about him
— delusions of grandeur —
Here, I’ll let him tell you
“So feeling I wasnt wanted on VC and that the Rules were established specifically to get me and my posting style off”
The rant he used that in, not hard to find on VC btw, was chalk full of paranoid ideas.
Delusions – false beliefs strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: for example,
Paranoid delusions, or delusions of persecution, for example believing that people are “out to get” you, or the thought that people are doing things when there is no external evidence that such things are taking place.
Delusions of reference – when things in the environment seem to be directly related to you even though they are not. For example it may seem as if people are talking about you or special personal messages are being communicated to you through the TV, radio, or other media.
Somatic Delusions are false beliefs about your body – for example that a terrible physical illness exists or that something foreign is inside or passing through your body.
Delusions of grandeur – for example when you believe that you are very special or have special powers or abilities. An example of a grandiouse delusion is thinking you are a famous rock star.
Hallucinations – Hallucinations can take a number of different forms – they can be:
Visual (seeing things that are not there or that other people cannot see),
Auditory (hearing voices that other people can’t hear,
Tactile (feeling things that other people don’t feel or something touching your skin that isn’t there.)
Olfactory (smelling things that other people cannot smell, or not smelling the same thing that other people do smell)
Gustatory experiences (tasting things that isn’t there)
Disorganized speech (e.g., frequent derailment or incoherence) – these are also called “word salads”. Ongoing disjointed or rambling monologues – in which a person seems to talking to himself/herself or imagined people or voices.
Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior (An abnormal condition variously characterized by stupor/innactivity, mania, and either rigidity or extreme flexibility of the limbs).
“Negative” symptoms of Schizophrenia , these symptoms are the lack of important abilities. Some of these include:
Alogia, or poverty of speech, is the lessening of speech fluency and productivity, thought to reflect slowing or blocked thoughts, and often manifested as short, empty replies to questions.
Affective flattening is the reduction in the range and intensity of emotional expression, including facial expression, voice tone, eye contact (person seems to stare, doesn’t maintain eye contact in a normal process), and is not able to interpret body language nor use appropriate body language.
Avolition is the reduction, difficulty, or inability to initiate and persist in goal-directed behavior; it is often mistaken for apparent disinterest. (examples of avolition include: no longer interested in going out and meeting with friends, no longer interested in activities that the person used to show enthusiasm for, no longer interested in much of anything, sitting in the house for many hours a day doing nothing.)
A short summary of a list of negative symptoms are:
lack of emotion – the inability to enjoy regular activities (visiting with friends, etc.) as much as before
Low energy – the person tends to sit around and sleep much more than normal
lack of interest in life, low motivation
Affective flattening – a blank, blunted facial expression or less lively facial movements, flat voice (lack of normal intonations and variance) or physical movements.
Alogia (difficulty or inability to speak)
Inappropriate social skills or lack of interest or ability to socialize with other people
Inability to make friends or keep friends, or not caring to have friends
Social isolation – person spends most of the day alone or only with close family
Note: Only one Criterion A symptom is required if delusions are bizarre or hallucinations consist of a voice keeping up a running commentary on the person’s behavior or thoughts, or two or more voices conversing with each other.
Cognitive Symptoms of Schizophrenia
Cognitive symptoms refer to the difficulties with concentration and memory. These can include:
disorganized thinking
slow thinking
difficulty understanding
poor concentration
poor memory
difficulty expressing thoughts
difficulty integrating thoughts, feelings and behavior
Social/occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset (or when the onset is in childhood or adolescence, failure to achieve expected level of interpersonal, academic, or occupational achievement).
Duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must include at least 1 month of symptoms (or less if successfully treated) that meet Criterion A (i.e., active-phase symptoms) and may include periods of prodromal or residual symptoms. During these prodromal or residual periods, the signs of the disturbance may be manifested by only negative symptoms or two or more symptoms listed in Criterion A present in an attenuated form (e.g., odd beliefs, unusual perceptual experiences).
Schizoaffective and mood disorder exclusion: Schizoaffective disorder and mood disorder with psychotic features have been ruled out because either (1) no major depressive, manic, or mixed episodes have occurred concurrently with the active-phase symptoms; or (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase symptoms, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active and residual periods.
Substance/general medical condition exclusion: The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition.
Relationship to a pervasive developmental disorder: If there is a history of autistic disorder or another pervasive developmental disorder, the additional diagnosis of schizophrenia is made only if prominent delusions or hallucinations are also present for at least a month (or less if successfully treated)
Now did I read it right, maybe it was here or the yoy50 site that didn’t nearly take off with all the trolls that this one did. Was Daciple on work leave for anxiety disorder of some sort, some post-traumatic-stress leave?
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“Daciple was not paranoid
[Paranoia [ˌpar.rəˈnoɪ.ə] (adjective: paranoid [ˈpar.rə.noɪd]) is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. False accusations and the distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia.]
to believe that Vigilant instituted new rules in the religion forum because of him, because he didn’t believe it was solely because of him, he believed it was leveled against fundamentalist Christians in general, and it was, as a result of the anti-free speech demands for censorship by Muslims and pagans who hate having their religions denigrated by free expression of the truth.”
So the Muslims and Pagans were conspiring against the Christians and had rules made which stated things like no insults, etc, to silence them? Funny, text book paranoid belief pattern right there. But you’re wrong, or lying, because Daciple did actually say he initially thought it was about him
– delusions of grandeur –
Here, I’ll let him tell you
“So feeling I wasnt wanted on VC and that the Rules were established specifically to get me and my posting style off”
The rant he used that in, not hard to find on VC btw, was chalk full of paranoid ideas.
Disparate dots were connected to make his conclusion based on feelings of helplessness leading to perceive a conspiracy against oneself is pretty textbook case of paranoia.
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Also, I’ll point out that your friend Daciple’s paranoid delusion of persecution that the new rule changes applied to him and his friends was obviously wrong since Christians dominated the forums, at least in religion, before the reset and also again now.
So his musings were wrong…..wonder where else they were wrong?
“A paranoid schizophrenic may be delusional, believing that others are determined to harm, mistreat or endanger him. According to the Mayo Clinic, those suffering with the illness become focused on perceptions of others singling them out.”
Also why would someone “reset” their boards if the threat to their boards was gone? All they would have to do is put all new members on moderation or something of that nature. Reseting the boards has nothing to do with getting rid of a faction of people, or one person, that’s a simple solution. Reseting the boards is house-keeping, or pruning old articles, wiping the slate. One would only want to reset the boards if they wanted to hide something.
That’s a different discussion obviously.
Here’s paranoid schizophrenia at work
– Believing one man has all the time in the world to go through all those lengths just to get rid of a faction of people so he could preach Gnostic Luciferian home-free on the Vigilant Citizen.
That’s text-book paranoid schizophrenia speaking…the sort of paranoid schizophrenia that get’s one in trouble with the law. Oh yea, that’s correct. Your belief on paranoiacs not getting in trouble with the law is false, it’s reversed. You should do some research in popular criminology journals to confirm. Being a paranoid schizophrenic is not the same as being cautious. Paranoid schizophrenics have very unorganized thinking at large, while sometimes being able to hold the interest of one topic, they are largely unable to balance that with regular life and are unable to differentiate between reality and fabrication, even fabrication of their own making, even small things like “stealing cars” from “grand theft” sort of errors can be sometimes under the radar signs of this disorder.
This can be induced by overuse of some drugs, yes even mild hallucinogens.
Delusions of persecution (see above) and grandeur are two big signs, but here are some others,
Loose associations – Rapidly shifting from topic to topic, with no connection between one thought and the next.
Perseveration – Repetition of words and statements; saying the same thing over and over. 😉
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Part/Lesson 6
10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists
A useful guide by Donna Ferentes
1. Arrogance. They are always fact-seekers, questioners, people who are trying to discover the truth: sceptics are always “sheep”, patsies for Messrs Bush and Blair etc.
{I’m always right}
2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited. (Moreover, as per 1. above, even if you listen to them ninety-eight times, the ninety-ninth time, when you say “no thanks”, you’ll be called a “sheep” again.) Additionally, they have no capacity for precis whatsoever. They go on and on at enormous length.
{Toby = Dantalion}
3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they’re pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
{Is Toby/Dantalion a true enemy of VC?}
4. Fondness for certain stock phrases. These include Cicero’s “cui bono?” (of which it can be said that Cicero understood the importance of having evidence to back it up) and Conan Doyle’s “once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth”. What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply “eliminate the impossible” (i.e. say the official account can’t stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice, based on “cui bono?” (which is always the government) is therefore the truth.
{willful ignorance, conjecture}
5. Inability to employ or understand Occam’s Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have “open minds” and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.
{what is fact to me may not be fact to you}
7. Inability to withdraw. It’s a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. Moreover they have a liking (see 3. above) for the technique of avoiding discussion of their claims by “swamping” – piling on a whole lot more material rather than respond to the objections sceptics make to the previous lot.
8. Leaping to conclusions. Conspiracy theorists are very keen indeed to declare the “official” account totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. Of course this enables them to wheel on the Conan Doyle quote as in 4. above. Small inconsistencies in the account of an event, small unanswered questions, small problems in timing of differences in procedure from previous events of the same kind are all more than adequate to declare the “official” account clearly and definitively discredited. It goes without saying that it is not necessary to prove that these inconsistencies are either relevant, or that they even definitely exist.
{Who else would have done it?}
9. Using previous conspiracies as evidence to support their claims. This argument invokes scandals like the Birmingham Six, the Bologna station bombings, the Zinoviev letter and so on in order to try and demonstrate that their conspiracy theory should be accorded some weight (because it’s “happened before”.) They do not pause to reflect that the conspiracies they are touting are almost always far more unlikely and complicated than the real-life conspiracies with which they make comparison, or that the fact that something might potentially happen does not, in and of itself, make it anything other than extremely unlikely.
10. It’s always a conspiracy. And it is, isn’t it? No sooner has the body been discovered, the bomb gone off, than the same people are producing the same old stuff, demanding that there are questions which need to be answered, at the same unbearable length. Because the most important thing about these people is that they are people entirely lacking in discrimination. They cannot tell a good theory from a bad one, they cannot tell good evidence from bad evidence and they cannot tell a good source from a bad one. And for that reason, they always come up with the same answer when they ask the same question.
A person who always says the same thing, and says it over and over again is, of course, commonly considered to be, if not a monomaniac, then at very least, a bore.
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I was waiting for my turn to be called Toby.
The Sarge on VC doesn’t write with the sort of coherence that we find above, but nice try.
When I show you the screen shots I collected and the conclusions that may be probable, you’re going to feel stupid calling me Toby because Toby wouldn’t do what I’m about to do to Toby/Dantalion, or would he? You just make sure you keep coming back to find out 😉
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Lesson/Part 7
Wikipedia’s Conspiracy Theorist Guide
((DISCLAIMER: We’re all Conspiracy Theorists to a degree, what separates the rational theorist from the paranoid one is the ability to separate Probable from Provable, the entails not falling for the traps below))
1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.
{Dantalion = Toby because Toby attacked Dantalion then kicked everyone off of his board some 6 months later, after Tweeterfist created it and then gave it over to him, because Dantalion/Toby wanted to get all the Christians kicked out of the Vigilant Citizen so his group can preach Gnostic ideals without resistance}
2. Addresses an event or process that has broad historical or emotional impact;
Seeks to interpret a phenomenon which has near-universal interest and emotional significance, a story that may thus be of some compelling interest to a wide audience.
3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.
4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the ‘impossibility’ that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.
5. Allots superhuman talents or resources to conspirators;
May require conspirators to possess unique discipline, unrepentant resolve, advanced or unknown technology, uncommon psychological insight, historical foresight, unlimited resources, etc.
6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.
{Inductive reasoning: Inductive reasoning, also known as induction or inductive logic, is a kind of reasoning that constructs or evaluates propositions that are abstractions of observations of individual instances of members of the same class.}
1) Dantalion preached Mystery Religion
2) Toby ran him off the board
3) Both were named Jones
4) Both must have been the same
Appeals to ‘common sense’;
Common sense steps substitute for the more robust, academically respectable methodologies available for investigating sociological and scientific phenomena.
7. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.
8. Is produced and circulated by ‘outsiders’, often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.
9. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
At least some of the story’s believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.
10. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.
11. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.’
{Discounting obvious evidence, making up obscure evidence}
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I find it intriguing that every point applies to VC, Toby and his mods or former mods
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You’re on Toby’s boards you say? Cut and paste this link to him/her/them, whatever.
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Doing it
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VC’er think VC is THE AUTHORITY
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=9595
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From the list above,
“3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they’re pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
{Is Toby/Dantalion a true enemy of VC?}”
Chainmaker,
“I’m definitely tired of the games. God bless ya A Team, I already answered your question and you missed it.”
You dodged this one
Chainmaker says,
“Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.”
Chainmaker says,
“Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.”
In your discussions with VC did he ever allude to the second statement of yours above?
……But for the purposes of this, we can then conclude on the basis that you have had contact with VC who “asked” you about Toby and his boards, and that you believe VC reset his boards because of Dantalion, and because he banned everyone that went to Toby’s board, and because you believe Dantalion and Toby and Dantalion and Toby to be the one in the same that you concur with your friends Daciple and Tweeterfist and believe that Dantalion/Toby are in fact the enemy of VC.
You think it was plausible that they were at one time friends, but that this is not possible after the board reset, otherwise how could VC come to you, ask you questions about the situation and then proceed to defend himself against the dozens upon dozens of criticisms against his site as all being the work of one man: Toby/Dantalion? It just wouldn’t make any sense.
If they ever had some sort of agreement, then it was over when the board reset happened and from that point forward because of what had happened, VC was against Dantalion/Toby (two separate people, but for the purpose of this discussion we will hypothesize alongside your paranoid delusions that they are the same person).
Since VC contacted you and worked with you to bring Daciple and Tweeterfist back to VC and made Tweeterfist a mod, then VC can in no possible way still be connected to Dantalion/Toby. Furthermore because Dantalion/Toby were solely responsible for reseting the boards, VC would never want to be associated with them again.
Therefore, it can only be possible that it was Dantalion/Toby contacting your friend Daciple via email numerous times and harassing him. It is also not possible, in your mind, that there was no vendetta against Daciple due to this
“Daciple challenged Vigilant to a debate about his “mystic Christianity” on the old board, and Vigilant responded once and then refused to continue the debate after Daciple’s rebuttal destroyed his arguments.”
and since you’re tired of this, we can assume you won’t be back, unless that claim was just more defections on your part (dishonesty), which is my bet because I know you’ll be back commenting again 😉
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How the hell is any of this evidence for anything? So what A Team! What’s ur point?
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That was just an explanation as to why the slaves don’t run from there master.
It is no surprise that the relevancy and innuendo went over your head.
It’s just a starting point – a “foreword” if you will (like in a book)
Re read it again ^ *looks up*
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**whoosh**
The sound of education flying over Sarge’s CT Scan…
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Lol
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their*
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While A team does whatever he is doing I will just add some food for thought that I have been chewing on – and that Chainmaker so helpfully added some spice too.
I have more than reason – as discussed- to believe that most of the posters on the site are not real, and are indeed use to drive the emotions and provide escalation points for the VC membrane.
Chainmaker mentioned the user WowFan, this is what he had to say:
“There were threads all about this Toby drama after the board reset, if I were you I would run a search for posts that WoWfan made regarding the issue. WoWfan the homosexual Wiccan figured out that Dantalion was Toby before most of the Christians ever did.”
Now , I had only ran into WOwFan a number of times and though I wouldn’t consider him a troll he was mean, surly, and rude. I would consider these more damning human characteristics than being a Wiccan or homosexual – but to each its own.
Around the time that Hexa (the fake member who is a mod) posted this thread “exposing” other sites – and this site was actually mentioned by a poster here 😉
some odd things started to happen.
Here is the post by Hexa that – through innuendo – encouraged members to go read as these where “Toby”
Toby at it again – hexa
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7596
So , lets step outside of ourselves and use deductive reasoning and not allow our minds to “trick us” like the human phenomenon that the A-team provided above.
If a Mod / THe “administration” at VC wanted to forget the whole Toby thing and move on with their lives, WHY would they draw attention to these links. Seemingly encouraging other people to read them? Using the personal account of being banned after I commented on the linked site in question , obviously the intention was to expose VC users to alternative information as to “what to look out for as Toby” and then weed out the ones who are not melding into the “mob mentality” of saying “these posters sure are crazy”
Before I was banned, I was in a thread discussing the musician FIonna Apple. Now while I was bantering with one of the usual people I banter with – I noticed something that seemed bizarre at the time.
Because I was heated I overlooked it, but let that be a lesson – your brain is an amazing thing and if your instincts tell you that something is off – it usually is.
Wowfan – who has now had his posts /account deleted (more on that in a second) started to go off after some random person stated that he had a mispelling. you can see WowFan’s response in the random person (em-jay) qoute :
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6423&hilit=fionna+apple&start=20
Now what’s NOT there, and should just have “wowfan”‘s name is right after em-jay asked “did you mean Raped” (instead of Taped) Wowfan said something really weird.
“Funny, I could have sworn I said raped”-
It was weird to me bc wowfan is not one to say such obviously cliche things. It sounded as though it was written by an 8th grader in a play.
He then , made some waves by posting this:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8203
This was indeed, an entire thread in which some “users” testified that trivial words or letters or phrases had been rearranged or deleted.
One of which, joining into the scripted play, is the user ChemicalChrist.
(Earlier I detailed that I was banned seconds after telling a user through PM that I believed that the site was controlled. I stated that it happened so fast I asked the user through the email he provided If HE was Vigilant – the user was ChemicalChrist.)
As someone who enjoys literature and communication, even I was a little confused as to how this was relevant and the “mods” were answering this in a page long thread – when they have been asked about WHOLE LINKS and MESSAGES on religion, politics, and things relevant to conspiracies – being “kicked out” by the filter or deleted after the fact that were ignored.
Now we have Chainmaker stating that Wowfan was the town crier and indeed made some waves by identifying who Toby “really” was on the now infamous “old boards”.
It is odd no?, that this member who – after posting everyday for months I rarely seen- only comes along to drop tectonic information and then flee?
Also it’s interesting that around the time of Hexa’s little “expose” thread all of this “mod editing” non sense occured.
It was merely to sat the stage for the mass exodus my lovelies.
On FAKE users, I previously mentioned Loki – he seemingly will go through great lengths to derail or confuse the viewing audience with his duality on conspiracies. I have, by default of my personality, exposed his phonyness many times : Here is what he said in the Fiona Apple thread:
“I don’t know much about her, had never heard of her before now,…. I never like to say it’s not possible, but is it likely? No, not really as far as I can see. But like I said, I haven’t like researched her or anything, this is purely a third-party observation.”
So we have someone who admittedly does not even know who we are talking about in the thread in question – the thread that is named after the artist – but he gives his input on ‘not believing”.
It reminded me of another thread I posted – when I looked to verify ..I found something interesting……
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I brought up WoWfan simply because WoWfan was a person opposed to Christianity, and a person who was not part of TruthFiles or any of that drama, who recognized before the Christians ever did that Toby Jones was an imposter playing a role.
WoWfan was a person who I debated, a person who was one of the many who whined and screamed for me to be censored, in his case this was because I called him a Satanist after he said he agreed with the philosophy of Aleister Crowley.
WoWfan was a person who Toby Jones debated.
WoWfan had no reason at all to agree with the Christians that Toby was an imposter playing mind games, unless that was WoWfan’s honest belief from his own experience, as he stated.
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Or he could be in on it
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Chainmaker, as I thought you weren’t done with it. Glad you’re back again.
So
You’re pretty good at dodging truth cutting questions, not so good at dodging the law in your past, something may have changed in you from your past experiences.
So you believe that Vigilant and Dantalion/Toby were/are enemies at least from the time of the board reset onwards, you’re still dodging this one:
Chainmaker says,
“Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.”
Chainmaker says,
“Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.”
In your discussions with VC did he ever allude to the second statement of yours above?
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I’m not done responding to my critics, I’m just done with you A Team. I did not come here to play a game with you, as you admitted that is your perception of our conversation.
I gave my view of the situation. Everyone is free to come to their own opinions.
See y’all on the boards. 🙂
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You just responded to me (again), like I said you would, hence you weren’t done with me the first time you said you were. You will also be responding to me again, trust me, I know 😉
” I did not come here to play a game with you”
previously
“I am done playing games with you”, this certainly implies you were aware of the games you were playing.
Chainmaker you won’t answer the question because you are a coward, a coward that used defective inductive reasoning, hearsay, conjecture, and rumor to come to your facts. When you have no facts, your mind plays games on you and inserts them. Like your friend “Daciple” (using inductive reasoning there’s no reason to believe you are not the same), you probably are a victim of too much drug use and also have formed holes in your consciousness.
I cornered you by asking questions that revealed you and in due time I’m going to reveal you further, but one thing at a time Chainmaker, my fisherman’s friend 😉
So you can run with your tail between your legs now, but you won’t be able to run far because this little episode has a fence and you’re within it’s territory. I have you within my cross hairs. 😀
“I gave my view on the situation”
No you said you have facts, giving one’s view implies opinion. I’ve already proven you don’t know what a fact is.
I’ve also stated you have opinion (giving a view of the situation), but also recognize you have no facts.
I know why you have no facts, because as you said you weren’t a part of anything and only connected disparate dots in your desperation to come to a conclusion because you fall into the paranoid Conspiracy Theorist category.
The one who tricks themselves.
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It’s all well Mr Chainmaker, we know you believe that VC and Dantalion/Toby
are enemies, at least ever since the board reset. We know that VC contacted you to “inquire” about what transpired between your other paranoid friends,
Chainmaker says,
“Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.”
and I think it’s HIGHLY PROBABLE that
Chainmaker says,
“Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.”
VC told you that, or implied it in a way that bypassed your critical thinking skills and implanted itself directly in your default vault of beliefs, deep within your brain. The brain that fails you when you can’t parse meaning in actual statements, replacing them with your imaginations.
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So chain, let me leave you with this. If VC did imply or tell you that, or to your friends, you became his bitch. Only you will know for sure, however Occam’s Razor suggests that this is indeed true.
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This quote, picked from above by Daciple about his “friend” Chainmaker is awesome. It was made last month on the VC website (Hi Daciple :wave: )
“Nah Chain is in Ohio hes been visiting his family and friends, he doesnt have enuff time to get into all that BS,and when I did tell him about these things he just brushed them off as nonsense.”
I guess “Chain” now has found time and is no longer brushing this off as nonsense?
cross-hairs-chain….
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6586&hilit=obama+digital+deception&start=40
The thread was an expert photographer breaking down possible digital manipulation. Loki , again, comes in with his duality but nuances of him stating that the material is fraudulent. After several posts of his, I expose that he has no expertise on the intended information so How could he at once pronounce it to be a fraud and then state he is keeping an open mind? He admits:
“ My apologies. I did skim everything you posted, but focused mostly on the things he said were wrong, that’s why i was unsure of whether he was claiming they weren’t truly related”
So, and again , this is just the tip of the Ice Burg – we have a RESPECTED (by the other fake shills to confuse the public) member on a “conspiracy forum” – who routinely does not read /understand the information yet vehemently denies it…
While looking through this I realized something else – the user ItsMeAgain is gone. I was rather fond of her and don’t know exactly what happened as she is not one to be controversial and was there at the boards before I arrived.
Though I think there was a name change , (someone mentioned name changes here, ironically -or not- being a catalyst foreshadowing in the script) I believe it was ItsMeAgain bc the picture was the same,
this post popped up “where did that whacko’s post go”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8480
Like the other posters, this post dropped tectonic information and the user asks to delete their account.
So….what do we have here? A plot of rising action, climax (and mass exodus of users real and fake), and then a denouement?
An effort to keep the users that can be controlled blind and frightened , hoping that their “beloved” site will not go down by the boogie man’s meddling?
*Also , just want to say that I’m fully aware some people who are posting here against Vigilant are controlled opposition*
though I would love to be like Aladdin and keep “one step ahead of the sword” I fear that this plot is entirely twisted – so
…I’ll just cover my tracks as much as possible 🙂
Happy Conspiring and
Martin Luther Kind Jr. Day from the U.S
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That was me who mentioned the name change theory.
Also, I have some screenshots of the anna-key/Cymbaline name change to add as a continuation of the comment I left before.
Here is the comment:
and here are the screenshots to back up what I found:
Also, I decided to take a couple of screenshots of the strange vanishing of ItsMeAgain in case VC trys to cover it up and bring the post back up to make us look like liers:
I wonder what happened to her? Some of her post were very interesting and I never had any problems with her during my time on VC.
Shortly after I took the screenshots, this happened to me:
I suppose that what I get for trying to visit VC again.
Speaking of malware, does anyone remember that comment I made a while back where I said that my computer almost crashed?
Well, here are some screenshots of the virus report that I got for this:
Visit Vigilant Citizen. It pays.
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I just recently looked up the IP address of where I got the virus from when I visited Distort Entertainment’s website on December 11th.
But why is the IP based out of Poland?
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To add to FP’s post about CC
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8480&start=10
I will add first that this was not me. However, Hexa, the fake poster says it was. And CC says it was me before him, how?
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Same page
Kat is just trying to distract us from the fact she is the third mod, the secret one.
A method of disinfo is to tell the truth in a way it seems the lie
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Also
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Didn’t you or someone else already point out that she admitted to being CIA = Russian Nika in a tinychat thread? So why would it surprise anyone if she is a silent mod? We all know VC selects people who are either easy to manipulate, or who take orders well, often one in the same condition.
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People who pay attention could see Hexa moving from staunch Islamic supporter to Pagan/New Ager, and his subsequent promotion to VC’s moderation team. Like FemalePharoe pointed out, the script has been repeated a few times. It’s called programming. Dantalion promotes that, VC promotes that. Did Toby? Someone tell me.
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A Team, clearly you have indeed been paying attention, to understand Hexa’s path from follower of the child molesting warlord to Satanist witch.
—————————————————————————————–
The “A” Team wrote:
“When someone does a search for duh, douche and bahaha separately on the VC website two names come up that use these terms the most:
Kissthegyrl (a mom?)
one1lastcaress (don’t know who this is?)
Not that one should draw any conclusions from that, just saying. Might mean something, and probably doesn’t. Maybe Chauk can look and see if their IP’s or emails are significant, maybe not.
Like the rest of the VC shills and troll bots they will probably be attracted to something else to feed their deficit in attention soon enough.”
————————————————————————————————
So why don’t you answer question then?
How is it possible for you to have been around for the past year to understand Hexa’s evolving views, but you have no idea who one1lastcaress is?
Are you being dishonest?
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No, in my research the name 1last never stood out to me, sorry but you’re reaching at straws Chainmaker, but feel free to call me Toby if you want.
Don’t worry, I’m not done with you yet. Pay attention to lessons 6 through 7, and hopefully you’re not torn away from this “nonsense” by important “family” stuff or “fishing” expeditions again 😉 because I like conversing with you and find reading some of “Daciple’s” ramblings very painful.
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PS Tweeterfist a “Christian” who was once a Satanist, who still promotes Satanic images, justify’s sullying his body (against the Bible’s wishes) with “reacreational” drugs, is also a mod team member. VC picks em’ well doesn’t he? 😉
I’m glad I was able to reach Logan about his drug use. I hope, for his sake, he stops using drugs and in doing so can see through his self deception, making it harder for others to deceive him. Others like VC, and Chainmaker.
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I do think you made it very evident with this comment that you have been “paying attention” to the boards for quite awhile now.
In my opinion, it would be impossible for you to pay close enough attention to understand what has happened with Hexa’s views over the past year, and yet somehow never run into one1lastcaress’ or kissthegyrl’s posts and have no idea who those two posters are.
I don’t buy it.
Have fun!
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LOL, you’re quite the investigative reporter there Chainmaker, a regular Sherlock Holmes.
Chainmaker, not only have I said it with “this comment” but I’ve blatantly said I’ve been paying attention for some time right out in the open 😉
Vigilant Citizen has been an interest for some time because I do enjoy debunking bullshit, and guess what, he’s not the only one I’ve debunked.
I care about logic and critical thinking, and take care to not always let defunct inductive thinking lead my mind, like you do.
You might have seen some of my work on other forums because you’ve been busy in many spreading your brand of hatred veiled as Christianity.
Let’s just cut to the chase and get it over with already since it’s very obvious as to what you’re trying to achieve here, or get at. Just call me Toby and get it over with. What have you got to lose other than a little more respect?
I have read Kissthegyrl’s accounts, especially the ones here, so you’ll notice I never said that I didn’t know of or about her. 1last never stood out to me, it’s that simple, but it wasn’t hard to figure out that Anonymouse was him. I even told you my method, pretty “sneaky” huh?
😀
am I mocking you? is it not nice?
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Probable
vs
Provable
The Rational Conspiracy Thinker vs the Irrational and Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist…
“It’s not just that some people do and some people don’t; in fact all our minds are built with the same first instinct, the same first reaction to new information. But what is it: do we believe first or do we first understand, so that belief (or disbelief) comes later??”
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Exactly, one again what CM said is PROBABLE not PROOF
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And I’d do what you say but I’ve never gone on that site besides that once, plus it installs cookies that exist for a long time, it took time to remove them
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Well I implore you to go again, I want them all to see this. If you know where the cookies are, delete them again. And I just use the remove cookie function built into my browser. Works swimmingly for me.
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Here you go guys, 2 things VC promotes ON HIS SERVER, not google ads.
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Yep, that New Dawn magazine is definitely the kind of thing a “mystic Christian” AKA Gnostic Satanist would promote.
http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/what-is-new-dawn
“I read many magazines, from all over the political and religious spectrum, but New Dawn is the one periodical I most look forward to each issue. It never fails to deliver provoking political analysis, hard-to-find esoteric insights, and valuable pointers to health alternatives. Do I agree with everything it prints? Certainly not. But there is nothing quite so stimulating as well-written articles challenging one’s unexamined assumptions about the world we live in. New Dawn is hard to put down – or pin down. In short, it’s a great magazine.”
– Jay Kinney, Publisher of GNOSIS magazine (1985-1999)
“Fresh, vibrant, and always surprising, New Dawn is a constant reminder that reality is rarely what it appears to be. One of very few magazines I enjoy reading today.”
– Richard Smoley, author of Inner Christianity: A Guide to the Esoteric Tradition and former editor of GNOSIS
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Lesson/Part 8 – elaborating on Lesson 6 – Characteristics of Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists
5. Inability to employ or understand Occam’s Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.
What is Occam’s Razor? Or lex parsimoniae, the law of parsimony or economy simply states
“Occam’s razor, also known as Ockham’s razor, and sometimes expressed in Latin as lex parsimoniae (the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness), is a principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false.”
“The principle is often summarized as “simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones.” In practice, the principle is usually focused on shifting the burden of proof in discussions.[1] That is, the razor is a principle that suggests we should tend towards simpler theories until we can trade some simplicity for increased explanatory power”
End.
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Thank you. Can I use some of what you said?
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Use whatever you like. It’s information, designed and presented in a way to help people wake up from their delusions.
Just a word to the wise, Chainmaker is beyond recovery at this point. His delusions have such a strong hold that if he were to attempt to break them down, he would have a melt down that would make the one he had on the VC forums pale in comparison.
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Lesson 9 – putting some of what we learned together – Part A
**(Sarge, you asked what the point was, here’s some of it…let’s hope for your sake you make come pertinent connections)**
Let’s apply some of this now, just bits and pieces where they fit.
Chainmaker,
“I brought up WoWfan simply because WoWfan was a person opposed to Christianity, and a person who was not part of TruthFiles or any of that drama, who recognized before the Christians ever did that Toby Jones was an imposter playing a role.
WoWfan was a person who I debated, a person who was one of the many who whined and screamed for me to be censored, in his case this was because I called him a Satanist after he said he agreed with the philosophy of Aleister Crowley.
WoWfan was a person who Toby Jones debated.
WoWfan had no reason at all to agree with the Christians that Toby was an imposter playing mind games, unless that was WoWfan’s honest belief from his own experience, as he stated.”
Occam’s Razor suggests that the reason WowFan was upset with Toby is because Toby out debated him.
So what other “evidence” can you preset that Toby was a fake Christian?
WoWfan presented this
http://dantalionjones.wordpress.com/
a page that is basically an expose of who Dantalion Jones is. On that page it tells us that Dantalion Jones real identity is David Barron. It also shows two screenshots of Dantalion arguing with Toby, while pretending or deflecting the exposure of his real identity by pretending to be a movie director. That is, Dantalion Jones was so embarrassed that his real identity was being revealed that he tried to associate himself with the movie maker David Barron:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Barron
This is one of David Barron’s (not the movie makers) websites:
http://www.power-persuasion.com/davidbarron.html
Here’s another
http://embeddedcommands.com/
Here are a few of Dantalion Jones websites:
http://www.mindcontrol101.blogspot.com
http://www.MindControlLanguagePatterns.com <<< KEEP THIS ONE IN MIND – for later 😉
Take a look at how similar they are designed, and all communicate the same message…on MIND CONTROL, something that Vigilant Citizen is obsessed with…uhm…exposing…oh yeah, that's it.
Back to our friend Occam and his Razor, which suggest that Dantalion left the VC website after he was exposed because Toby ruined the audience he was trying to set up for buying his books.
Guess who else has the same presentation, and sells the same stories?
**scrolls above to the Eli Rook websites listed**
http://elirook.com/ and
http://jointhenewworldorder.com/index2.php
http://www.youtube.com/elirook
Eli Rook writes ebooks that tell you the NWO is a good thing and it's part of the harmonic convergence coming and that people who know the secrets of the NWO will prosper in the coming new age and that people can join a very select branch of the Illuminati who are now making these secrets public knowledge through the
GIN
Global Information Network.
This is the network that is run by known scammer, jail bird (maybe you met him there?), and liar
KEVIN TRUDEAU – see Chaukeedaar's article, you know, the one we're commenting on for more information
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau
"Trudeau's activities have been the subject of both criminal and civil action. He was convicted of larceny and credit card fraud in the early 1990s, and in 1998 paid a $500,000 fine for making false or misleading claims in his infomercials. In 2004, he consented to a lifetime ban on promoting products other than his books via infomercials."
"After being incarcerated for fraud in the early 1990s,[4] Trudeau joined a multi-level marketing firm, Nutrition for Life. The firm met with success until the Attorney General of Illinois charged that it was running a pyramid scheme. Trudeau and Nutrition for Life settled cases brought by the state of Illinois, and seven other U.S. states, for US$185,000."
READ THIS CAREFULLY
" He also says he was "taken in" by a mysterious group called "The Brotherhood" that taught him the secrets that he is now widely announcing in his book. There is also an invitation at the conclusion of the series to join a "Global Information Network," claimed to be an exclusive group of "highly influential, affluent, and freedom-orientated people from various business, social and economic sectors" who offer advice to its members.[22] The group operates out of the country of Nevis and employs the Law of Attraction as its principal wealth generator, a concept regarded by most in the scientific community as at-best pseudoscience"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/17/kevin-trudeau-sentenced-i_n_466173.html
Chaukeedaar recognized the GIN logo being promoted on the Vigilant Citizen website. It was also not part of the rotating ad system that Vigilant employs to make money on his website. This is a known fact because the link contained an affiliate ID number. That means it was directing people to the
Global
Information
Network
which Kevin Trudeau has promoted, in a television informercial as the teaching of a "secret society" that he belonged to; a wing of the Illuminati, who have decided to disperse this information to the public in this day and age.
It costs $1000.00 to join, a big portion of which will go to the affiliate who referred the new recruit to (VC in this case). The affiliate also received a big portion of the $125.00 monthly membership fee.
It's a pyramid scam, in short.
Eli Rook and VC both promote, or in VC's case, promoted it. We suspect that once Chaukeedaar exposed him, he took them down, but that doesn't mean it isn't archived in Google, what someone referred to as the World Wide Wiretap (I love that term 😀 ).
Kevin Mark Trudeau (born February 6, 1963) is an American author, radio personality, and infomercial salesman best known for promoting alternative medicine.
Vigilant Citizen promoted alternative medicine too.
Not that this means anything. You see Chainmaker/Daciple/Tweeterfist, if I used that to make a connection between the two (over and above the obvious GIN one), then I would be as guilty of inductive reasoning fallacies as you twits are.
So we are led to believe that Toby, sending a few messages to his "friends" via the VC website, somehow mind controlled one of them in posting it to the public forum knowing in advance that it would cause this "uprising" that you paranoiacs think was his main aim, only to have Tweeterfist "create" the site and "hand over the reigns" to him?
And you deny that he's a genius if you all believe that to be true.
Now that's a movie I'd pay Hollywood to see.
Sadly it is merely products of a paranoid schizophrenics brain.
End Part A of Lesson 9
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Part B of Lesson 9 (Part A is awaiting moderation, assumed to be because of the many links within)…read Part A first.
From Lesson 7….
1. Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence.
1) Dantalion = Toby because Toby attacked Dantalion on VC and caused Dantalion to leave
2) Decided to leave himself a few months later and only communicated this to a few other Christians
3) One of them posted his private message to the public boards
4) That caused a huge ruckus then
5) Tweeterfist and Daciple left and Tweeterfist claimed he created the other board and gave control to Toby, later denies that he created anything but rather recruited a lot of people
6) Then a falling out occurs between Toby and these paranoiacs, know one has actually explained that yet.
7) Tweeterfist/Daciple and others come crawling back to VC and formulate the idea that Toby created Dantalion, exposed himself to get close to the Christians so he could lead them off of the website, so Gnostic ideals can be preached without resistance.
And that’s NOT a paranoid delusion, a delusion of grandeur? Of course it is.
6. Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
INDUCIVE FALLACIES
Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.
{Inductive reasoning: Inductive reasoning, also known as induction or inductive logic, is a kind of reasoning that constructs or evaluates propositions that are abstractions of observations of individual instances of members of the same class.}
1) Dantalion preached Mystery Religion
2) Toby ran him off the board
3) Both were named Jones
4) Both must have been the same
7. Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument.
– I wasn’t there but it is fact
8. Is produced and circulated by ‘outsiders’, often anonymous, and generally lacking peer review;
Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge, and enjoys popularity among persons who lack critical (especially technical) knowledge.
– “Story originates with a person who lacks any insider contact or knowledge”
Chainmaker said WoWFan was never a part of Toby’s board, yet he originated the story.
WoWfan, of course, could have no reason to hate Toby because Toby debated him and as Female Pharoe said, WoWfan was mean, surly, and rude and therefore it is reasonable to suggest that Toby got the better of him in the debates (Occam’s Razor)
9. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science;
At least some of the story’s believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.
– See Tweeterfist, one who rely’s on Chainmaker AND VC, to be moral authorities and people to learn from statement that Carbon Dating is flawed and the Earth is probably only 10,000 years old. He said that in Novermber, scroll above to his comments where he accuses one (I won’t say who 😉 ) of being shoddy minded for suggesting he believed in that because there is no evidence he said that. When presented with his own words, he replies to the effect “Oh yeah, I forgot I said that.” A classic sign of the short-term and sometimes long term memory effects of drug abuse.
All these people have suffered from depression, anxiety and some sort of disorder…real disorders, not illuminati induced trauma. Food for thought.
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That lesson 9 rocked, I’m chilled that finally someone found a way back to my main topic 😉
Well actually, you’ve written it much clearer than I could, thanks for that, A-Team!
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My pleasure Chaukeedaar and if you want to use any of that in a new article, feel free. Lesson 10 coming….
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Lesson 10 – The Grande Finale, the climactic apocalyptic end you’ve all been waiting for….coming soon……
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Interesting stuff. Keep it coming.
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You forgot to mention the emails Daciple received that stated that there was an agenda to remove Daciple from the site.
It was called “Operation Exit” in the emails.
This was not an idea that Daciple created, it was an idea that was presented to him by the same giggling psycho who creates many accounts on this page.
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I didn’t forget any emails because you’ve never presented them, even though I’ve asked numerous times. Applying Occam’s Razor, again, those emails could very well have been forgeries to play on the paranoid delusion he had that he was being targeted for removal.
Don’t let that sort of logic sway you from your paranoiac conclusions though.
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Chainmaker says,
“Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.”
and I think it’s HIGHLY PROBABLE that
Chainmaker says,
“Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.”
VC told you that, making you his bitch.
***NOTE*** I said Probable, not Fact.
You may be learning the difference by now, maybe, maybe not.
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Chainmaker @ 9:06PM
“I’m not done responding to my critics, I’m just done with you A Team.”
The “A” Team @ 9:17 PM
“You just responded to me (again), like I said you would, hence you weren’t done with me the first time you said you were. You will also be responding to me again, trust me, I know ”
@ 10:46pm Chainmaker responds to me again, just like I said.
Chainmaker, you’ll be done responding to me when I have nothing more to say. Until then you really don’t have a choice because it’s going to get better for everyone else, and a whole lot worse for you soon.
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From lesson 6 – 10 characteristics of {paranoid; my insertion} Conspiracy Theorists
From the list above,
“3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they’re pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
{Is Toby/Dantalion a true enemy of VC?}”
Chainmaker,
“I’m definitely tired of the games. God bless ya A Team, I already answered your question and you missed it.”
You dodged this one
Chainmaker says,
“Vigilant recognized me and asked me if I was Chainmaker and asked me questions about the Toby situation. This led to the TruthFiles people including Daciple and Tweeterfist, and myself being allowed back on the boards.”
Chainmaker says,
“Dantalion and Toby definitely are the same person.”
But I’ve already hypothesized why, and I believe I am 100% right. VC whispered that in your ear as a suggestion, which he did with Daciple and Tweeterfist, all of which with the help of the Christian hater WoWFan caused you guys to induce faulty reasoning in the forum of an inductive fallacy to come to your conclusion.
Be prepared for the climactic conclusion…to that chapter.
Promise me you won’t disappear Chainmaker 😀 tell your crew to come too…silly me…they’re already here.
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I put up the mails which prove NOTHING!
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Exactly right Truthseer, random screenshots from an Iphone prove nothing. Anyone could have sent them, Daciple/Chainmaker himself, or anyone else that publicly read his delusion of grandeur that the rule changes on the VC website were solely about him. I think someone was playing mind games with him, someone with the “smoking gun”.
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That’s right, any email or screenshot posted here could be a fake, anyone posting here could be an imposter, and so nothing at all can be proven about any of it.
So what is the purpose of trying to prove people wrong who cannot be proven wrong or right?
Anyone who asks strangers on an anonymous forum for hard evidence about strangers on an anonymous forum is….silly.
So you can choose to believe whatever you want!
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Chainmaker,
You’ve basically discredited your whole story about who you think sent the emails, completely. You’re basically saying you believe the “conjecture” that your friend Tweeterfist likes to say was applied in the article here. The same goes for him and other members of your crew. You are guilty of behaving in the same way that you are now condemning as silly. You are, whether you accept it or not.
This 10 part mini-series and my whole participation here has always been about providing strategies one can adopt to develop critical-thinking skills in order to parse and evaluate information that crowds their minds on a daily basis. By using the “conspiracies” on this blog and comment section, a methodology can be put on display that doesn’t end in evaluating the many claims made here. In this way, victims of hearsay, conjecture, rumors and irrational conspiracy thinking are not completely taken in by whatever whimsical notion or imagination that crosses their mind.
There are people who can communicate in skillful and artful ways, even if employing “slang” and “dumb speak” and can guide the unprotected mind you into thinking what they want you to think, having you believe all along that it was your idea. Doctors of spin if you will.
You and your clan have been victims of that, without question in my mind.
Learning the difference between inductive (what you and your friends use) and deductive (what I use) logic would be a bare necessity and a life-long learning skill that can be employed daily to your benefit.
If someone says they encourage questioning but then discourages it with their actions, there’s something that is not congruent with their behavior and their words. In this instance you can see Chaukeedaar has not silenced or censored anyone, even those who attacked him. He’s putting that into practice.
“and so nothing at all can be proven about any of it.”
Therefore you use your language as honesty and with the least amount of possible deception that you can. You say things like “I believe” not “I know for fact”, and then take a step back and realize you, nor anyone else, may be as important as you think. It may not be all about you, and you may not be reaching as many people as you think. That most of your efforts are generally and truly about yourself, but the world isn’t revolving around you.
That’s awareness and an enlightenment that has nothing to do with the “illuminati” or “neo pagan” view of enlightenment. It’s getting control over your ego before it begins to control you. Acknowledging and allowing the ego to have an outlet is not necessarily bad practice if you are capable of recognizing it and it does little harm. If not, it’s bound to get a hold of you and then messianic complex sets in.
“Anyone who asks strangers on an anonymous forum for hard evidence about strangers on an anonymous forum is….silly.”
By the exact same token anyone who says they “know for a fact” something about an anonymous user on an anonymous forum is…silly…
Those emails you referenced, the ideas of an anonymous forum user, all have convinced you that you have fact, when in fact you have no fact, just inductive fallacy.
You have opinion, you might have belief, but you have no fact.
It is just as plausible and probable that after your friend, who initially had a hand in causing VC drama, convinced himself that he was fooled by someone else and then proceeded to communicate that very idea in public, the paranoid delusion that he was being targeted (a textbook definition of delusion of grandeur) that someone reading his message totally played him, played that paranoia, to continue believing exactly that.
Who would have anything to gain from that? Who? Occam’s Razor….
You don’t know who that someone was. It could very well have been the person that gave him a new home to “preach” his message. “Could”, “Probable” not “Fact”. See the difference?
But Part 10 is going to give you some hard facts, and as you some hard questions that may, if you are starting to appreciate real evidence and facts, make you question everything you thought to be true about the vigilant citizen website and his supposed “enemies”.
“so you can choose to believe whatever you want”
Damn straight. I choose to believe in Probability until the time comes when fact makes it Provable.
fact = reproducible evidence…some is coming right up… Part 10…. see below….
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Hello, you speak with such conviction. Admirable given your perceived target, never the less you speak of a perpetually applicable assumption. For example, it’s applicable to you as well. How so? Well, counter intelligence also works in the form of a burn notice. Ie inform someone on an open line that your agent (who has defected) is undercover & bam… His new allies take him out. My reasoning for mentioning this is that people must stop searching the Internet for answers and start seeking them in person. We outnumber them by billions, yet we seek to discover how to stop them by using a device they largely control. Foolish, but then again ignorance is a universal trait. It rests in us all to a degree, accepting this truth without taking offense is the first step toward alleviating it. Money is only green paper & Einstein once said the only way to stop war is for a nation to rise up & refuse to go. Perhaps you are targeting the wrong part of their weakness, people generally want meaning. It isn’t found in fear, therefor information on what they should fear will only hinder their ability to defeat it. Contact me.
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The whole comment section has been useful. Thanks to Chaukeedaar and various posters for pointing out the mind games. I will never view a comment section the same. Also, The “A” Team, I have copied your lessons (hope that’s OK). Can’t wait for the conclusion.
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Hey Berry,
Thanks and welcome…
“I will never view a comment section the same.”
Well, thats a very nice – or lets say – optimisitc way of putting that whole mess 😉
Actually, I feel about the same. Normally I get a hand full of comments, here its more than 1400… Holy cow 🙂
Greetz, Chaukee
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You’re welcome, Cheers!!
🙂
Feel free to spread them far and wide, just give credit to the links within and even this blog article.
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Of course credit will be given.
Chaukee, your patience is appreciated.
Greetz to you too!
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Berry, I’d be interested to know where you are using them, if it’s in a similar context as applied here?
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The “A” Team, I will reply here because there is no link to your post bellow.
Apart from personal use, the information will be used on a public forum with a link to this article. Also, for a slightly different purpose (but still relatable) – religion and self-deception – the things willingly accepted by individuals within a group… shutting down basic instincts and falling into cult. I may comment about it later.
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Sarge,
You’re really lacking in the ability to comprehend the written word aren’t you?
You go ahead and believe I had previous knowledge of your CT scan, but like your pal Chainmaker all you did is see meaning in something that wasn’t intended in any way other than to mock you.
I explained I responded with:
on 11/01/2012 at 03:27 | Reply Kittie PinkiePie
Yo Mama Sargetard, prove you have a brain for us. Show us a CT scan, or forever be known as the dumbest person on the planet.
in response to your demand (with your Yo Mama sock puppet) that the rest of us should video ourselves online to prove we’re not your infamous pal Toby Jones:
Yo Mama on 10/01/2012 at 22:50
Hey A team, io, kittie pinkie pie, everyone else
Prove that you’re not Toby then
Give us a vocaroo each if you have balls, otherwise you’re just a schizophrenic wankster
vocaroo.com or video record yourself saying that you’re not Toby and that you are “Kittie PinkiePie”, “The A Team”, “Io”, etc etc
xD Ahhhhhhh I keep laughing at the obvious insanity here demonstrated by Toby, FemalePharoe, Truthseer, and Ayaka. If there were so many real accounts here, why isn’t there a new forum populated with a 1000 posts by now and 100+ topics? Come on Toby! You’re lagging!
…
It was mere coincidence that you actually had a CT scan. I have no prior knowledge of it, and requesting for you to get one on the basis that I perceive you to be dumb doesn’t make me Toby. It just makes me perceptive. Congratulations on jumping to conclusions and thus revealing you actually did have a CT scan. You need to change a few lightbulbs up there buddy.
Alas, call me Toby. I’ll try not to lose sleep over it, “bruh”. You can stipulate that to the bank!
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“but like your pal Chainmaker all you did is see meaning in something that wasn’t intended in any way other than to mock you.”
Did you mock me Kitty?
That’s not nice.
What is Kettner or Kettler?
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Chainmaker picking on KittiePinkyPie with more of his failed imaginations, while running from my pressing questions speaks volumes of his intentions and his general way. Actions speak louder than words here.
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I answered your questions. Don’t be another liar A Team, it’s not nice.
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Name calling when you’re called out.
You never answered this, but we can infer that you do believe it to be true.
“Since the board reset, do you believe that Toby/Dantalion and VC are in opposition to each other?”
Even if you think you answered it again, humor me with a Yes or No.
Not doing so makes you dishonest, and completely untrustworthy, because if you really are someone who is out for the “truth” then you won’t have a problem answering it. If you are out to deceive you’ll try to turn it on me again.
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I know that Vigilant after the board reset was very much opposed to Toby.
I do not know what Vigilant knows or believes about whether Dantalion was Toby.
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Did I mock you? Do you feel stupid? If so, I guess I did.
You’re asking questions now? I guess you’ve been stipulated too 😀
We both know the answer to that, I’m sure.
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No, I don’t feel stupid. I’ve been told I have “delusions of grandeur”, so it must not be not possible for me to feel stupid lol.
I don’t know what Kettner or Kettler is, I was hoping you would tell me, since you called me that.
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You don’t feel stupid. Well then I guess it wasn’t a mock then was it? 😉
We know, you’re above correction. You already know it all. Carry on.
I did call you Kettner, but Kettler? ROTFLMAO
I called you that? You’re the first person you mentioned that word, but show me where. lol, you sure you’re not imagining things again you crazy schizo?
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I’m pretty sure someone could mock someone else and the mocked individual might be amused and not feel stupid.
I guess that mocking could be classified as a FAIL lol.
You say Kettner, someone watching this page says Kettler, it seems someone has some wrong information.
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Uhm, no one on this page said Kettler save for you, schizo-boy.
lol
Who’s someone? The voice in your head?
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Chainmaker said “How can I know who called me “Kettler” ?
It was from another faceless account on another website, a message I received immediatedly after I asked you about “Kettner” the first time.
——–
ROTLFMAO, so “someone” on some other board calls you Kettler and you come back here asking me why I did it, and you don’t see how you let your mind fool you?
Honestly, I feel sorry for you. You are lonely in real life.
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Does anybody know if it’s possible that the comments section could be divided into pages instead of having it run as one long thread, which makes the tab on the scroll bar smaller and smaller?
I’m getting warnings about high CPU usage everytime I visit the site and it’s taking longer to load.
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Very good idea, Ayaka! I found a configuration in WordPress to do so, but currently it doesn’t take effect yet. Probably some caching issue. Will check back later.
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Let’s Recap…
[Self-Deception:
“Humans deceive themselves in order to better deceive others”
“Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument. Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.]
[Deception is the hiding or distorting of the truth. For example, not delineating how one came to a conclusion but responding that –what is fact or truth to one person is not fact or truth to another–, while failing to recognize that facts are reproducible pieces of evidence is just not honest.]
[We’re all conspiracy theorists to a degree. We try to find patterns in our environment, especially those that may represent (even if not true) a threat to us. When things go wrong, we find ourselves searching for what or, who, is behind it.
Historian Richard Hofstadter hypothesized in that underlying emotions of helplessness and alienation fuel irrational and paranoid conspiracy thinking and research supports this theory.
Conspiracy theorists begin to fail when they adopt a grandiose view of themselves as heroes, they are then susceptible to developing messianic complexes. {check, Chainmaker and Daciple both have communicated they argue to “protect their flock” at VC, Tweeterfist is one of their followers.}
What distinguishes a rational theorist from a paranoid-delusional one…
[Paranoia [ˌpar.rəˈnoɪ.ə] (adjective: paranoid [ˈpar.rə.noɪd]) is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. False accusations and the distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia.] {Check}
….is that the intelligent one will consider believable conspiracies to be
PROBABLE
until the time comes when they are truly
PROVABLE]
“It’s not just that some people do and some people don’t; in fact all our minds are built with the same first instinct, the same first reaction to new information. But what is it: do we believe first or do we first understand, so that belief (or disbelief) comes later??”
Enter Occam’s Razor – {Occam’s razor, also known as Ockham’s razor, and sometimes expressed in Latin as lex parsimoniae (the law of parsimony, economy or succinctness), is a principle that generally recommends that, from among competing hypotheses, selecting the one that makes the fewest new assumptions usually provides the correct one, and that the simplest explanation will be the most plausible until evidence is presented to prove it false.}
Characteristics of the Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist (abbreviated from the full list of Lesson 6 and 7 above):
– Key steps in argument rely on inductive, not deductive reasoning;
Inductive steps are mistaken to bear as much confidence as deductive ones.
{Inductive reasoning: Inductive reasoning, also known as induction or inductive logic, is a kind of reasoning that constructs or evaluates propositions that are abstractions of observations of individual instances of members of the same class.} [check]
– Initiated on the basis of limited, partial or circumstantial evidence;
Conceived in reaction to media reports and images, as opposed to, for example, thorough knowledge of the relevant forensic evidence. [check]
– Exhibits well-established logical and methodological fallacies;
Formal and informal logical fallacies are readily identifiable among the key steps of the argument. [check][check]
– Is produced and circulated by ‘outsiders’
“WoWfan figured it out, not me….I wasn’t even there, I was told about it
from someone else!” [check]
– Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science; At least some of the story’s believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts. [check] “Carbon dating is flawed, the earth is only 10,000 years old”
– Rebuttals provided are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative [check]
– Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they’re pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
[check][check][check]
– Fondness for certain stock phrases.[check]
– Inability to employ or understand Occam’s Razor. [check]
– Instead often induce the Conan Doyle; Conan Doyle’s “once we have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, must be the truth”. What these phrases have in common is that they are attempts to absolve themselves from any responsibility to produce positive, hard evidence themselves: you simply “eliminate the impossible” (i.e. say the official account can’t stand scrutiny) which means that the wild allegation of your choice.[check]
– Inability to withdraw. It’s a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it. [check]
– Leaping to conclusions. Irrational and Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists are very keen indeed to declare any evidence against their claims totally discredited without having remotely enough cause so to do. [check]
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Is that all you do, repeat the same form-argument in multiple contexts?
“there’s nothing paranoid about …. enter delusion”
or
“there’s nothing wrong about….”
while completely ignoring the actual defintion of paranoia.
Chainmaker states that he calls people Satanists based on definitions of self-proclaimed satanists when other fit the bill. He feels persecuted when his paranoid behaviors are defined as paranoid, when they fit the bill.
Chain is upset when he fits a textbook definition, but has no problem calling other people names when they fit what he believes to be a text book definition. Sounds like a massive wanking hypocrite to me.
So who’s the anonymous someone who called you Kettler, schizo-boy?
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Chainmaker, ” that spitting on sacred cows is good, if the cow isn’t really sacred. ”
It amazes me that in your “life’s travels” through jail, then finding Christianity and Jesus and proclaiming to be saved you’ve missed one of his greatest teachings
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!”
Some call it the golden rule, but it’s more than that.
It’s more than just the phrase that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. That’s especially true if you want to help bring some truth into people’s lives.
You need to put yourself in their shoes. Like you, they believe they have truth too. Provoking anger in them is going to provoke resistance. No one is going to say “Hey, he spit on my Sacred cow, he must be truthful!”
No, the exact opposite happens all the time.
By now, having been banned so many times, creating multiple sock puppets and so forth, you still have failed to make this fundamental connection.
If you want people to be swayed by what you have to say, you need to speak to them with some respect. You’re not going to win people to your side of the fence by punching them in the face.
All you do is spread hate by acting in hateful ways.
You miss the point. Even those, perhaps even I, may agree with you on some philosophies have told you that your anger only creates anger in others. You should deal with your anger first.
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11 days ago…
on 06/01/2012 at 09:20Chainmaker
“Daciple is right, I didn’t have time for this drama I was on vacation, and I don’t plan on sticking around for any more of it.”
11 days ago 😉 You can’t help but stick around. Wonder why?
Some may also be curious as to your subtle defense of Vigilant Citizen, especially after he has banned you for life, and especially after you helped bring some of his flock back to him 😉
4 days ago Chain said he was done responding to me. 2 days ago I guaranteed he was not.
on your pride for spitting on ‘sacred’ cows:
“Vigilant is not part of the Illuminati. Vigilant is a guy who made his own website and spreads some good information”
“Muslims don’t like to hear that Mohammed was a child-molesting murderous warlord, and most pagan occultists don’t like to be called Satanists.”
It’s probably because they revere their prophets, and belief structures as much as you do. Remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
I don’t believe you’re trying to turn people to Christ. I believe you’re trying to turn them away.
“Vigilant has nothing to do with Toby, I have had communication with both Toby and Vigilant in the past.”
but then later he says
“I believe Vigilant had some advertisement deal with Dantalion in the past.”
😉
but refuses to answer whether Vigilant and Toby/Dantalion (he believes they’re the same) are on friendly terms or not after the board reset which everyone, including Vigilant, blame Toby/Dantalion for.
Not saying that this makes Chainmaker any sort of controlled opposition in some sort of problem-reaction-solution scenario to attract users to the forums or anything…
Chain runs from questions he cannot answer by creating new stories or twists in the plot, classic irrational conspiracy theorist behavior.
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oops not 11 days ago, but 13…and counting. I bet you’ll be here for a while Chainmaker 🙂
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A Team I wasn’t going to play a silly game with you where you ask me to answer questions that I already answered, all while you consistently disrespect me repeatedly.
I didn’t have time to come here and give my views last month, and I didn’t plan on sticking around here now, the only reason I am still here is because real life mechanical problems have me delayed.
You have now turned from your game of asking me the same question multiple times and forgetting that I already answered you, to an all out assault on my character.
Jesus speaking to the Samaritan woman, the Samaritans being a false cult split off from the Jews:
“19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Jesus did not say “Your religion is equally valid, I don’t want to disrespect you Ms.Samaritan”
Jesus said “You Samaritans don’t know what you worship, and the Jews do know, salvation is of the Jews[not the Samaritans]” The hour is coming when true worshipers[Samaritans are not true worshippers] will worship the Father in spirit and truth.”
Jesus had very strong words for the Pharisees, who were the false religious leaders of that time and place.
“13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. ”
I have heard from many people that I would get more response with honey than vinegar.
But the Old Testament prophets and Jesus and the New Testament Apostles did not use honey when dealing with false teachers. They gave the vinegar, which was that the false prophets and those who followed them were not going to be saved, they were going to be punished.
If I were debating with a neo-Nazi, should I tell him “I don’t want to disrespect you, I know you are an intelligent person and you hold the Nazi belief system close to your heart. I respect your beliefs about Aryan supremacy and Hitler was definitely a great leader, you might think of him as the Aryan Messiah but I think Jesus was the Messiah, but hey that’s just our personal opinions so I respect yours.”
or should I tell him “Hitler was a racist genocidal monster who despised true Christianity and along with his occult buddies like Himmler tried to bring back European paganism as the religion of the Third Reich, and anyone who follows that religion of hate will not be saved, you need to repent to Jesus.”
I would be a coward and a liar if I used the first method.
I attack the child-molesting, adulterous, thieving, looting murderous warlord false prophet Mohammed just the same as I attack the racist thieving, looting, genocidal warlord false prophet Hitler.
When I speak the truth about these unsavory characters, the thought of whether or not I am hurting the feelings of their followers does not influence me to tone down my rhetoric.To the contrary, I believe that they need to hear it said loudly and boldly that their sacred cow is not sacred and deserves to be spit on.
As far as the rest of this Toby/Vigilant nonsense, I already gave you my views on the matter. I have formed my opinions based on my own personal involvement with Vigilant, Toby, Daciple, and the board in general.
I never claimed to be able to definitively prove that my view is correct, and I never claimed that I know everything there is to know about Vigilant or Toby, I do not and I cannot.
When I spoke to him Vigilant never mentioned Dantalion, not that it matters because Daciple already had already noticed Dantalion’s advertisements on Vigilant’s site and had already been suspicious long before I ever talked to Vigilant.
I did not defend Vigilant, I simply said he presents some good information. I already gave my view of him, and it is very similar to what Chaukeedaar wrote:
“Take the Vigilant Citizen (the website): Spreading paranoia among its numerous young readers that is triggered whenever coming across Illuminati symbolism in the entertainment industry whereas lacking of promoting any strategy AGAINST the cabal. Advertising for pro Illuminati and occult products and services. Even suppression of any solution oriented comments in his blog section as well as forum, massive totalitarian style censorship.”
The Christians on the board give a strategy against the cabal, the strategy is to live as Jesus said to live and spread the gospel that Jesus preached, that Jesus is the Only Way to salvation.
Vigilant gives no strategy against the cabal, because to do so would necessitate that he take an ideological/religious stance about the conspiracy he describes, and to take a definitive stance would gain him ideological/religious friends and ideological/religious enemies, and would deter the enemies from populating his site.
Vigilant wants the ad revenue, from whoever wants to pay. If the ads he posts begin to negatively affect perception of him and thus potentially affect traffic, then he will remove the offending ad. Vigilant doesn’t want people on his boards scaring away traffic, which means censorship of those who he considers to be negatively affecting his traffic.
Vigilant expressed to me multiple times his worry that he could be hit with hate speech lawsuits due to what gets posted on his message board. That kind of thing could be costly.
In my opinion, from my experience, money is all that it boils down to.
That Occam’s Razor, right? A very simple explanation.
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A Team I wasn’t going to play a silly game with you where you ask me to answer questions that I already answered, all while you consistently disrespect me repeatedly.
—–
But you didn’t answer his question. Shame on you. You imagining an all out assault on your character is hilarious. All he did was repeat and quoted exactly what you said, schizo-boy. How come you won’t tell me who “someone” is that called you Kettler? Oh ya, because you made it up in your head.
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My dear Kittie, A Team has attacked me on many levels, which is plain to see for anyone reading this.
“I don’t believe you’re trying to turn people to Christ. I believe you’re trying to turn them away.”
“Not saying that this makes Chainmaker any sort of controlled opposition in some sort of problem-reaction-solution scenario to attract users to the forums or anything…”
He has accused me of being an anti-Christian imposter, which is an all-out assault on my character. It is an accusation that I am a liar, the opposite of who I claim to be.
How can I know who called me “Kettler” ?
It was from another faceless account on another website, a message I received immediatedly after I asked you about “Kettner” the first time.
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Chainmaker, playing the persecuted victim here is confirming paranoia status. I’ve challenged your “wisdom” and “facts” as most have readily understood. On top of that you’re going through elaborate lengths to avoid answering the one simple question now posed to you more than a half dozen times
“Do you believe Toby/Dantalion was on friendly terms with VC after the board reset, which VC himself blames on them/him?”
Of course it is implied in your writings here that you do not believe that to be the case, but to go through the lengths you’re going to, in order to avoid a simple Yes/No answer shows intention to deceive.
Back to the note that you’re being persecuted by me, I find it very ironic that someone who goes around bragging that he “spits” on other people’s beliefs and sacred values/cows, what have you, is crying that they are being persecuted. I am not surprised because that is actually a characteristic of the paranoid conspiracy theorist, a definition that you fit to the letter. You justify your condemnation of other religions based on the scriptural definition of “Satanism” a definition that is only come to by interpretation of scripture, but you cry that you fit the textbook definition of the paranoid conspiracy theorist and someone who has a grandiose messianic complex?
I’ve merely presented obvious paradoxes in your very words. Words you’re responsible for using. I’ve never twisted them or put words in your mouth as you’ve attempted me. If you feel you’re at a loss, you are, but not because of me, because of you.
Lastly you’re justifying 100% your crude, rude and belligerent behavior based on 5-10% of Jesus behavior. Jesus, whom you consider to be God in flesh, while ignoring that the other 90% of the time Jesus showed compassion and tried to reason with people. I’ve seen people try to tell you that you are not God to no avail, so I won’t repeat that now.
You’re fool yourself in believing you’re doing God’s work. You’re classically falling into perseveration as defined above. That is, you are repetitively justifying a behavior that is doing the opposite of what you claim it to be doing without really considering your effect on others. You may have found a few who, like you, believe that berating others into submission to your scriptural view is doing God’s work. Alas, they too are in the minority. That means that you turn away more people that you do convince. Your efforts are therefore wasted.
Learning how to communicate without angering others and therefore putting them at a resistance would be a valuable tool, but you find no value in that, which means your heart is in the wrong place.
You drive people from Christianity. You are the reason why people have a negative view of Christianity. Personally I think you’re an angry person and unconsciously incite angers in other to feel better and to feel important. You’ve concocted the whole idea that you’re providing value for people on, what you yourself termed “anonymous” forums in order to justify your behavior. You’re wrong. That’s clear for people reading this to see.
I know that presenting scriptures where Jesus acted in the polar opposite of how you act here, with patience, kindness and compassion would be totally ignored by you, so I won’t bother.
So if you feel like making another huge rant to avoid answering whether you believe Toby/Dantaltion to be antagonistic towards VC and vice versa since the board reset, be my guest. You’ll just be confirming that you are avoiding a direct question, another characteristic of the irrational conspiracy theorist.
Remember, you defend your calling others Satanists who you deem to fit the “scriptural definition” (even though none exists) but then cry that others point out where you fit the textbook example of an irrational, persecuted conspiracy theorist with a delusion of grandeur?
Do you know how I summarize that in one acronym? >>>> LOL <<<<
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There’s nothing paranoid about stating the obvious A Team, you have attacked me on many levels, and that’s not crying about it, it is just stating the facts that Kittie wanted to ignore.
If you want to attack me that is fine, I am capable of defending myself, but don’t call it a game and then ask me the same question 50 times that I already answered.
I haven’t avoided your question A Team, I already answered it, more than once. I already said that Vigilant was opposed to Toby after the board reset, but I don’t know what Vigilant knows or believes about whether Toby is Dantalion.
I know the Bible fairly well, and there is a big difference between showing love and compassion toward random individuals, and showing love and compassion toward the memory of genocidal and child-molesting false prophet warlords, and showing love and compassion toward their evil false religions and ideologies.
Jesus showed lots of love and compassion, but when the false teachers came around he wasn’t respectful toward their false teachings.
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Is that all you do, repeat the same form-argument in multiple contexts?
“there’s nothing paranoid about …. enter delusion”
or
“there’s nothing wrong about….”
while completely ignoring that you actually fit the defintion of paranoia. So what’s wrong with calling you paranoid when it fits the bill? 😉
Chainmaker states that he calls people Satanists based on definitions of self-proclaimed satanists when other fit the bill. He feels persecuted when his paranoid behaviors are defined as paranoid, when they fit the bill.
Chain is upset when he fits a textbook definition, but has no problem calling other people names when they fit what he believes to be a text book definition. Sounds like a massive wanking hypocrite to me.
So who’s the anonymous someone who called you Kettler, schizo-boy?
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My dear Kittie it is fact,
not conjecture, not opinion, and certainly not paranoid delusion,
that A Team has attacked me on many levels and made an all-out assault on my character.
What is delusion is for you to pretend that that A Team has not attacked me on many levels and made an all-out assault on my character.
For me to point out this fact after you denied this fact does not make me paranoid or delusional, but for you to continue to deny this fact makes you delusional, or at the very least, willfully ignorant.
It seems that you have a reading comprehension problem similar to that which is suffered by A Team. You also ask questions which have already been answered.
I will post this for you again, minus the spelling error:
How can I know who called me “Kettler” ?
It was from another faceless account on another website, a message I received immediately after I asked you about “Kettner” the first time.
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People still comment on this blog? Wow lol. For what purpose? What does bitching about VC and the members on the boards accomplish? Nothing. This has been going on for months. I’m beginning to wonder if some of you even have lives outside of the computer. If you do, you certainly aren’t acting like it. You comment on this blog with hatred, accusations, and ‘information’ as if it had been building up in your mind all day. As if you literally sit there in school/work/etc, and just speculate about vigilant citizen. It appears to be consuming your time. There are over 1,000 comments on this blog…. I don’t normally say things like this but I genuinely worry about some of you. I go to work every day for 12 hours. I go out with my friends. I go on dates. When I come home and actually do use the computer, bitching and moaning on a blog isn’t necessarily my top priority. I’m done though. Have fun. ^_^
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*yawn* glad you came along VC, would be nicer if you signed in with your real name Tony boy 😉
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I take back my earlier statement, you have me confused as fuck. Err, Tony boy? I’m female…..?
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For someone who has a life, you sure have the time to come tell us we don’t have one while camming on tinychat
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ok toni pie
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Hi Shannon/Raelyn
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You’re right, I did have 30 seconds to spare in my day before I went out to see a movie. I don’t own a webcam, and tinychat is dead. No point going in there. I love how both of you made assumptions that were completely ridiculous. Kittie, considering Vig is married… the “I go on dates” should have clued you in to the fact that it wasn’t him. Truthseer, I love how you assume I cam in tinychat. Do you even go there? Oh and it should be incredibly obvious who this is. Reread what I wrote and then get back to me. ^_^
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I remember putting you in junk, Shannon Doppelgänger
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By the way, being a student gives one more free time that those who work
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Yeah, I do have less free time than Shannon does. How am I her doppelganger, when I’m the older one? lol. This has been fun though. All levity aside I actually feel sorry for you. You need to stop relentlessly trying to take down VC. It is consuming your time. You’ve made over 20 fake accounts, and you’ve been commenting on this blog for months. It’s sad. Part of me admires your determination but the other part wonders what else you do besides sit there and think about this all day. I really hope you grow tired of this soon. If not, seek help. Please.
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Says the one who REPLIED
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Oh it’s Raelyn….
My mistake, I assumed you were Laya, the doppelgänger
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Being released from federal prison only recently (the end of last March) I still have some difficulty to reach my old skill level of talking out of my arse. It is really far easier to rob a bank with the use of a semi-automatic rifle than to come up with the usual bullshit I make money with (e-books). The mere fact that people quote my nonsense as authoritative on any subject just boggles the mind. They must be extremely gullible and actively repressing any thought about my criminal career and right wing religious bigotry it seems. All the better for me since the scam is very obvious to the discerning eye.
I was just dropping by to see how my friends here are doing and if this soap opera is as entertaining as it was before. Lo and behold, it has even gotten better 🙂 Have to leave now for an appointment with my parole-officer.
Cheers,
Uncle Fritzl
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FemalePharoe,
“Be true and our treatment suspicious. And since you like to keep my my name in your mouth, you cant specifically scream Toby with this, none of us were led astray by Toby we were all of a sudden banned.
Let me try to explain this to you like a baby.
Are you in school? Do you know anything about professors? Ok well when you have a body of work based on a theory bc its not fact you see, and then the professor releases it to the public and to peer review he knows thAt it will be tested and critiqued. He knows that free thinkin people supposedly interested in idea and truth won’t just garble up his hypothesis as fact.
Here comes now Vigilant, known conspiracy theorist on Mk ultra , illuminati and symbolology but something interesting happens when his work is.presented to the board. When ever his work is put to the test the questioner is shot , dragged out of the room and a select group chants “Toby did it”
Despite seeing vigilant standing with the smoking gun.
Lol
You’re so lost and brainwashed.”
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“Hitler was a racist genocidal monster who despised true Christianity and along with his occult buddies like Himmler tried to bring back European paganism as the religion of the Third Reich, and anyone who follows that religion of hate will not be saved, you need to repent to Jesus.”
I would be a coward and a liar if I used the first method.”
I call you out as a coward period because there would be no “debating” a real Neo-Nazi and not some delusional skin head because the second you showed any real antagonism for their world view you’d get your head kicked in.
“To the contrary, I believe that they need to hear it said loudly and boldly that their sacred cow is not sacred and deserves to be spit on.”
You fool, you are not debating Pharisees or Neo Nazi’s, or any other exaggerated group of people. You’re attacking common people on anonymous forums. Delusions is all you have. You delude yourself into believing you’re attacking the religious leaders of 2000 years ago by going onto the Vigilant Citizen website and calling a bunch of people Satanists because they are provoked to anger due to your denigration of what they believe is sacred.
I’ve debated Muslims before, peacefully and in person. If I were to tell them that their leader was a murderer and child raper it would not end pretty. You are so deluded, it really isn’t worth pointing out. You’ll convince yourself you’re being persecuted. You are blind to yourself.
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Quote:
“Hitler was a racist genocidal monster who despised true Christianity and along with his occult buddies like Himmler tried to bring back European paganism as the religion of the Third Reich, and anyone who follows that religion of hate will not be saved, you need to repent to Jesus.”
What in the world would this accomplish?
You need to explain why Hitler’s bad, not bash him
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I don’t think anyone needs it to be explained to them that racial supremacism and genocide are bad. That’s the kind of thing that your conscience lets you know about.
Same thing with child molestation and raping slaves.
There’s no gray area there, it’s just that people are evil and they often defend evil ideologies and religions regardless of whether their hero prophet was a mass murderer or a child molester.
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That is your perspective
I deny the child molesting, that’s a lie perpetuated by you
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No, it is not a lie, that is stated very clearly in the Hadith.
Sahih Bukhari and sahih Muslim say very clearly what the age of Aisha was.
A 54-year-old man having sex with a 9-year-old girl is a child molestor.
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That is your perspective
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If it is your perspective that Mohammed was correct in marrying a 6-year-old and having sex with her at 9, when he was 54, then certainly it logically follows that you would see nothing wrong with such an arrangement today, like the many millions of Muslims who still practice child molestation according to the Sunnah of Mohammed.
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Chainmaker is unable to comprehend anything outside of his own limited world view, that’s why he repeats himself and stays fixated on off topic nonsense like his opinion on Mohammed. Truthseer, he’s just doing it to get a rise out of you and other muslims possibly watching. That’s his idea of spreading truth…to create hate in others. He’s an idiot.
Just look at how he ignores simple logic presented to him by A Team, logic like there is no such thing as debating a real Neo Nazi without getting your face bashed in. Chainmaker has never debated a real neo nazi in real life and if he ever were to come across one I can say with 100% assurance that he’ll never tell the Neo Nazi the same things he has the courage to say on anonymous forums because spreading truth is not his real aim, he hides behind that, spreading hate is his real aim and he does it very well.
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I never claimed that I do not hate evil ideologies and religions.
I have often openly stated my hatred especially of Zionism/Talmudist Judaism, Nazism, and Islam, as being ideologies that promote immoral behavior including imperial military territorial expansion AKA murder/genocide and theft, discrimination toward non-Zionist/Nazi/Muslim subjects of governments based on those principles, and in the case of both Talmudic Judaism and Islam there is advocation of child molestation,
I seek to expose the evil inherent in these belief systems with the hope of spreading awareness that will lead others to also hate these belief systems for the hateful immoral behavior that they advocate.
Loving evil is hate.
Hating evil is love.
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you’re backwards again
hate is hate
love is love
you can learn to say all the things you do without provoking hate, or maybe you specifically can’t learn it, but it is possible for others to do.
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That’s where we have a fundamental disagreement A Team.
Let’s look at John 3 again.
“16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”
There’s that nice part that everyone likes.
SEE…God doesn’t condemn anyone! ….and then there’s the rest
“18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people LOVED DARKNESS instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil HATES THE LIGHT, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.”
hatred of evil = love of good
love of evil = hatred of good
If you love the darkness you hate the light.
If you hate the light you love the darkness.
That is a fundamental Biblical teaching.
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The very act of acting hatefully is hate. It’s pretty simple and the only internal motivation one would have to attempt to complicate it is that they are not truly ready to admit to themselves what is really driving them.
You can spread a message without being hateful, well maybe not you [yet], but it’s generally best practice to do so in most situations.
No good has ever come out of you going up to a Muslim and telling them that their prophet is a baby raping murderer, even if you really believe this to be the case [and I don’t believe for one second you’ve ever tried to debate a real Neo Nazi in real life]. If you truly wanted to help them [Muslims] see the “truth” you would not go up to someone who has been taught to revere said prophet and provoke them to anger.
You can only be wanting to provoke someone to anger if you yourself are angry. If you yourself are acting from anger, then you do not have the Holy Spirit in you.
I do not believe for one second that you have the Holy Spirit in you. I believe you do all of what you do, veiled under the guise of wanting to help others, to gratify your ego and to express that which you have not come to terms with internally. Anger, resentment and bitterness.
I know what’s coming too. You will in usual fashion say something to the effect that “yes I am angry, angry with evil, yes I am resentful, resentful of evil.”
you miss what’s right in front of your face
“Love your enemies”
You’re a broken record and you only have a few strategies which you repeat over and over [perseveration]
now quick, go dig up some other verses to provide an opposing view to loving one’s enemies, hurry before people reading here start to believe in it 😉
For you:
http://www.dougbrittonbooks.com/christianbibleadvicebooks/christianbiblebookangerirritation.php
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Evidently you have chosen to ignore what John 3 says.
Hate and love are two sides of the same coin, according to basic logic, and the Scripture.
You cannot love the Truth without hating the Lies.
When I make accusations against false prophets, like the Old Testament prophets and Jesus and the New Testament apostles did, then the person who follows that false prophet can choose to defend their false prophet from my accusations. That is the beginning of a debate, and the debate is educational to the participant and to the spectator.
I have done far more in my debates than just throw out accusations against false prophets, I spent plenty of time proving my accusations, in the case of Mohammed I prove my accusations using the Qur’an and Hadiths.
I do this because I love my religious/ideological enemies, but I hate their religions and ideologies, and so I expose them to the truth, and that often incites anger in them as a side effect, because the world in general hates the truth.
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If you even try to have any criticism of Mohammed or Islam in most Muslim countries you can be locked up or even killed. The Muslim countries have no freedom of religion specifically because they cannot win in free and open debate because their leader was a murderer and a baby raper and they must make it illegal to speak that truth.
In Nazi Germany of course it was illegal to speak against the Fuhrer.
Muslim censorship is a powerful force, a force that I strongly oppose.
You are correct, face to face debates about religion and politics in real life don’t end well a lot of times, and so people either avoid the topic or they handle it politically and refuse to give the full extent of their views.
But this nice invention the internet lets us debate these issues while comfortably separated, and so the only weapon is the pen, and we don’t have to censor ourselves for fear of the sword.
I spent my time debating primarily in the Religion forum on VC where people chose to come to debate religion. I did not force them to come and speak against my religion, and they did not force me to speak against theirs. I did not force them to read anything I wrote, and neither did they force me to read anything they wrote.
We all agreed to have a debate on the internet, not in person, and that’s what we did.
I directly called a select few people Satanists, people who openly stated their agreement with anti-Christian and moral relativist ideologies that fit the definition of Satanism given by people who are self-declared Satanists. WoWfan and Hexa come immediately to mind.
I called Gnosticism Satanism, as it is, and said that those who call themselves Gnostic Christians are in reality Satanists, as they are. They follow Luciferian enlightenment philosophy a la Blavatsky and Bailey.
I made a lot of people angry by speaking the truth.
You seem to be one of them.
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As I said before, that is your perspective seen from Christian hate tinted glasses
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Truthy,
Chainmaker is quite insane and relishes in his disturbed psyche, as opposed to seeking help.
There is nothing that a person outside of his delusions can do.
That is , if he is a real poster.
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We all agreed to have a debate on the internet, not in person, and that’s what we did.
————-
That’s because in real person acting like you do would get you beat up a lot, probably already has.
I actually feel sorry for you because I perceive you to be a massive social outcast.
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FP he’s another one that seems to have his mouth open for VC.
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And so the primary argument against me has now become, that I should not base my arguments,
(arguments about political/religious philosophy which are made on a public forum for that purpose, a public forum that is populated by people who voluntarily choose to spectate or participate in debates about political/religious philosophy and so choose to debate the merits or flaws of various belief systems)
on the the flaws, the misdeeds, the people murdered by, the property stolen by, the slaves raped by, the children molested by the various historical figures whose leadership, teachings, commands, and example is the basis for the modern political/religious philosophies attributed to them.
I should not speak the truth about the sins of Mohammed or Hitler or Joseph Smith or whoever, because the truth is offensive to the followers of these creeps.
I should not speak the truth about these people on a voluntary public internet forum, because if I were to speak this truth face-to-face with a follower of one of these creeps, I might end up being physically accosted by a follower of the creep.
I would do better at attracting people to follow Jesus (who did not order genocide or molest children or own slaves or rape slaves) if I would just refrain from mentioning that the alternatives are creeps who did order genocides and molest children and rape slaves.
I disagree.
I am of the opinion, as are the folks at most addiction treatment centers, that the first step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem.
You never will stop smoking cigarettes until you admit to yourself that cigarettes are bad for you and it is beneficial to you to stop smoking them.
You never will stop being a Nazi or a Muslim or a Zionist until you realize that these beliefs are based on disgusting immorality and they are bad for you.
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That is just one big straw man argument branched around the same theme. You can make an argument based on whatever you like, but if you spread it with hatred, you are hateful.
So what we have here is a Chainmaker that defends his right to call people “satanists” based on a definition that he has pieced together from outside sources, while it’s a “sin” and “persecutory” to call him paranoid and an irrational conspiracy theorist based on the accepted definitions of those terms.
Smells like good ol hypocrisy to me.
and look at the lengths you go to just to avoid answering a question with a simple yes or no. Even supposing that you did already answer it, if you were honest and out for the truth you’d have no problem doing it again, but obviously you’re not about truth and honesty.
“Do you believe Toby/Dantalion was on friendly terms with VC after the board reset, which VC himself blames on them/him?”
Of course it is implied in your writings here that you do not believe that to be the case, but to go through the lengths you’re going to, in order to avoid a simple Yes/No answer shows intention to deceive.
Here are a few obvious characteristics that apply to you (lesson 6,7)
– 3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they’re pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
– Delusions of persecution (see above) and grandeur are two big signs, but here are some others
– Loose associations – Rapidly shifting from topic to topic, with no connection between one thought and the next. {bringing in Mohammed and other topics that never were part of any discussion}
– Perseveration – Repetition of words and statements; saying the same thing over and over.
So if you fit the definition and someone points it out, it’s not attacking you just as you claim it’s not attacking “Satanists” because they fit the “definition”
when the shoe fits eh Chain?
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chainmaker,
“I am of the opinion, as are the folks at most addiction treatment centers, that the first step to recovery is admitting that you have a problem.”
[Projection bias]
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.[1] Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
That’s you bro, to the letter.
Sorry, no attack, just pure unadulterated truth for you to eventually, one day, come to terms with.
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“That is just one big straw man argument branched around the same theme. You can make an argument based on whatever you like, but if you spread it with hatred, you are hateful.”
———————————————————————————————
Again, I do not claim to love Islam, Nazism, Zionism/Talmudist Judaism, etc, I claim to hate those belief systems. I am indeed hateful toward those belief systems. I love the Light, and I hate the Darkness.
———————————————————————————————
“So what we have here is a Chainmaker that defends his right to call people “satanists” based on a definition that he has pieced together from outside sources, while it’s a “sin” and “persecutory” to call him paranoid and an irrational conspiracy theorist based on the accepted definitions of those terms.
———————————————————————————————
The word “satan” means “adversary.”
The broad definition of Satanism according to the Bible would be any belief system in opposition to the doctrine and commandments of YHWH the God of Israel or in opposition to the doctrine and commandments of Jesus the Son of God.
That is a wide umbrella.
More specifically, self-proclaimed Satanists, both theist and atheist, have defined their belief as being morally relative, or subjective, in opposition to the idea of absolute moral principles given by the Biblical God.
Any cursory research into the various beliefs that fall under the category of Gnosticism will soon reveal that the common theme is that the material world is evil and thus must have been created by an evil god. The Gnostics then typically believe that YHWH the God of Israel who claims to be the Creator of the material universe is a representation of the Demiurge, the evil god of the material world. Another common theme found in Gnostic writings is that the Serpent in the Garden of Eden was the true Savior of mankind, trying to help free Adam and Eve from the tyranny of the Demiurge by opening their eyes. The Serpent of Genesis is of course stated in the Book of Revelation to be equal to Satan. What all this means, is that the Gnostic Christians are in opposition to, they are adversarial to, the God of the Bible.
It is with those facts in mind that I choose to call certain people Satanists, and when I give someone that designation, I am not slandering them, I am simply calling a spade a spade. Oftentimes, the spades get offended at hearing the truth that they are indeed spades.
———————————————————————————————
“while it’s a “sin” and “persecutory” to call him paranoid and an irrational conspiracy theorist based on the accepted definitions of those terms.
Smells like good ol hypocrisy to me.”
———————————————————————————————
I do not recall making any statement that your characterization of me amounted to a “sin” or even that it was “persecutory”
———————————————————————————————
“and look at the lengths you go to just to avoid answering a question with a simple yes or no. Even supposing that you did already answer it, if you were honest and out for the truth you’d have no problem doing it again, but obviously you’re not about truth and honesty.
“Do you believe Toby/Dantalion was on friendly terms with VC after the board reset, which VC himself blames on them/him?”
Of course it is implied in your writings here that you do not believe that to be the case, but to go through the lengths you’re going to, in order to avoid a simple Yes/No answer shows intention to deceive.”
———————————————————————————————
When I was growing up, I occasionally acted as a snot-nosed brat, as all children do at times. I would sometimes ask my mother the same question over and over, even after she had answered me, simply to annoy her. My mother would ignore me when I did that, and I would get tired of the game and find something else to do. My mother was not trying to deceive me by refusing to play my game.
I am glad to see you admit that I had already answered your question, and that your pestering me to answer the question again was quite unnecessary.
———————————————————————————————
Here are a few obvious characteristics that apply to you (lesson 6,7)
– 3. Inability to answer questions. For people who loudly advertise their determination to the principle of questioning everything, they’re pretty poor at answering direct questions from sceptics about the claims that they make.
———————————————————————————————
Of course, I did answer the question, more than once.
———————————————————————————————
– Delusions of persecution (see above) and grandeur are two big signs, but here are some others
———————————————————————————————
There is no delusion in stating the clear fact that you have attacked me and defamed my character by portraying me as an imposter Christian who desires to lead people away from Jesus.
There is no delusion of grandeur in my statement that I believe I affected many minds through my posting on VC. My posts were read by thousands of people, and the information and views I presented affected them. That doesn’t mean that they were all convinced to agree with me, it simply means that they affected in some way by exposure to what I had to say. I am of the opinion of course that it is beneficial for a person to be exposed to the fact that Mohammed was a child molestor.
———————————————————————————————
– Loose associations – Rapidly shifting from topic to topic, with no connection between one thought and the next. {bringing in Mohammed and other topics that never were part of any discussion}
———————————————————————————————
I haven’t been rapidly shifting from topic to topic, I gave my view of the Toby situation, and I have addressed certain critics of mine regarding the truth of my views and my motives. My views on Islam and Mohammed were a central aspect of much of the drama surrounding me on VC, and my attitude toward other religions is something that you yourself have criticized me for, so I have not been off topic.
———————————————————————————————
– Perseveration – Repetition of words and statements; saying the same thing over and over.
———————————————————————————————
Mohammed was a child molestor.
Yes, I might fit that one. 🙂
———————————————————————————————
So if you fit the definition and someone points it out, it’s not attacking you just as you claim it’s not attacking “Satanists” because they fit the “definition”
when the shoe fits eh Chain?
———————————————————————————————
A Team, I just don’t think the comparison can be made, since I don’t actually fit your definition, as much as you would like me to.
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Berry,
This is what a conversation on a singular topic looks like when everyone is allowed to present their opinions , ideas, and beliefs with an understanding that they will at least be respected (if not agreed with)
Due to…annoyances it has proven diffilcult.
Though it is refreshing none the less
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Despite the disinfo shills, this conversation is unique for no censoring and being free for all to post
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Chainmaker,
“You never will stop being a Nazi or a Muslim or a Zionist until you realize that these beliefs are based on disgusting immorality and they are bad for you.”
You will never stop being a hater and having paranoid delusions of grandeur where you perceive others to be attacking you until you realize that those beliefs are unconscious, and they are bad for you.
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at·tack (-tk)
v. at·tacked, at·tack·ing, at·tacks
v.tr.
2. To criticize strongly or in a hostile manner.
1. The act or an instance of attacking; an assault.
2. An expression of strong criticism; hostile comment: vicious attacks in all the newspapers.
Reposting for the benefit of your memory A Team:
————————————————————————————————
My dear Kittie, A Team has attacked me on many levels, which is plain to see for anyone reading this.
“I don’t believe you’re trying to turn people to Christ. I believe you’re trying to turn them away.”
“Not saying that this makes Chainmaker any sort of controlled opposition in some sort of problem-reaction-solution scenario to attract users to the forums or anything…”
He has accused me of being an anti-Christian imposter, which is an all-out assault on my character. It is an accusation that I am a liar, the opposite of who I claim to be.
————————————————————————————————
un·con·scious (n-knshs)
adj.
1. Lacking awareness and the capacity for sensory perception; not conscious.
2. Temporarily lacking consciousness.
3. Occurring in the absence of conscious awareness or thought: unconscious resentment; unconscious fears.
4. Without conscious control; involuntary or unintended: an unconscious mannerism.
A Team, your attacks on me are very real, and my recognition of your attacks is not unconscious, it is a very conscious recognition on my part of the attacks that were made consciously on your part.
Please don’t be a liar A Team.
It’s not nice.
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I have not attacked you, you are imagining things again.
I have not lied, you are imagining things again.
It’s a bad habit to do that. Of course onus of proof is on you to show where I lied, but you won’t be able to do that without lying yourself, so you’ll gloss over this one too 🙂
I’ll also let your words trap you here:
“It is with those facts in mind [lessons 1-9 above] that I choose to [label you a paranoid and irrational conspiracy theorist] and when I give someone that designation, I am not slandering them, I am simply calling a spade a spade. Oftentimes, the spades get offended at hearing the truth that they are indeed spades.”
Yep Chain, I’m calling a spade a spade. You just don’t like it, so you play victim. I’m sure someone out there feels for ya.
“He has accused me of being an anti-Christian imposter, which is an all-out assault on my character”
I truly believe you’re misinformed, misguided and need professional help, yes I really do. But I only tell you the truth about you because I truly care about you and want you to get the help you need. It’s because I care.
Oh and thanks for finally admitting you believe that Vigilant and Dantalion/Toby were enemies after the infamous board reset that occurred sometime in April of 2011. It took about 8 days but it wasn’t so hard in the end was it? 😉
Thanks for further revealing details of your upbringing, it may have had a lot to do with shaping how you view the world today.
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I’m not “playing the victim”, because I am not a victim, I’m fully capable of defending myself. I’ve been attacked by you repeatedly, by the definition of the word that I posted.
“I call you out as a coward period”
“You fool…Delusions is all you have.”
Those are called attacks, and for you to deny that obvious fact makes you a liar, which is why I called you what you are. That is me making an attack on you. It’s calling a spade a spade.
The difference is that I am not being silly and claiming that is not an attack on you.
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Pretending to be “attacked” is only for the purposes of presenting victimization. You do it well.
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Chainmaker believes that someone can partake in the act of defaming his character based on the observation that he acts incongruently, often contradicting himself by acting in diametric opposition to what he is saying. And that following this observation up with an opinion on the effect he has on others is defamatory and hurts his reputation.
“defamed my character”
But Chainmaker doesn’t seem to understand defamation of character very well at all.
For one, you cannot defame someone who is anonymous, and therefore perception that one is being “defamed” while admitting they are anonymous on an anonymous forum is a hyperbolic delusion.
[Chainmaker has implied that he is anonymous on an anonymous forum in his ramblings above.]
Secondly, it cannot be considered defamation if it is an opinion based on what you believe to be true about them, otherwise his very act of calling someone a “Satanist” would fall into that category and that then would make Chainmaker also guilty of defamation. lol, ha, I could end it right here and you lose Chain. but…
Lastly, it would have to hurt their reputation. By definition being anonymous, as Chain has admitted he is on this forum and other forums he has participated in, having a reputation that can be harmed is non-existent.
Therefore, Chain is perceiving persecution [believing he is being defamed] is unrealistic and by definition he is therefore acting in a paranoid manner.
Additionally since my view on you is based on your behavior (backed by the observation of many others, Christians included) that you act and speak in ways which to the otherwise general viewer creates animosity/resistance towards Jesus and his message, it is by fair comment on a matter of public interest that I would be totally absolved of any charge of defamation even if you were a public figure who’s true identity was known and actual reputation was harmed. I believe you actions and words turn most people away from Jesus and his message. Sue me 😉
Chain, you have no case. Like every other argument of yours that I’ve shredded with little effort and have been pleased to do, this one is ready to be tossed into the garbage basket as well.
Also, it should be illegal for you to use the word “fact” by now, but I won’t try to enforce that, lol.
For example you once said you knew for “fact” that Toby was Dantalion, and after the lessons on fact and proper evaluation of said facts, you now have revised to claim to “giving views”, implying opinion not fact. You’re learning, and that is a good thing. It means my effects on you here are largely having a positive impact, even if you fail to recognize it yet.
Your twists in the narrative fall perfectly within the parameters of behavior that is common for irrational conspiracy theorists.
In summary, if we were to apply your distorted understanding of defamation to this case and assume that if someone were to induce disagreeable feelings in another to be grounds enough to claim defamation, then by that very definition Chainmakers act of calling someone a “Satanist” [based on the authority of “outsiders” and self proclaimed Satanists] we would have to acknowledge and accept that this very act itself, by Chainmaker, is an act of defamation. Either way, you lose.
And once again Chainmaker would be guilty of pointing the finger at others for a behavior he himself is guilty of.
See [Projection Bias] above to understand why Chain does these things.
4 days ago
[on 17/01/2012 at 09:06Chainmaker
I’m not done responding to my critics, I’m just done with you A Team]
Remember how I told you that you were not done? You don’t have a choice as to when you are done responding. This I believe to be true 100%.
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You seem to again have this blog confused with a court of law.
I’m not looking to prove defamation in court, I’m simply using the word by its definition.
def·a·ma·tion
[def-uh-mey-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
the act of defaming; false or unjustified injury of the good reputation of another, as by slander or libel; calumny: She sued the magazine for defamation of character.
I have explained my views and actions and I believe that your attacks on me are based on falsehoods and unjustified.
I haven’t given all my personal information on VC, but anyone who has any history with the VC boards knows that I am the same Chain, they know that for a fact themselves, that doesn’t need proven in a court of law for them to make recognition.
Calling someone a Satanist is defamation if they really are a Christian and not a Satanist.
Calling someone a Satanist who in reality fits both the Christian definition of a Satanist and the self-proclaimed Satanist definition of Satanist is not defamation.
Saying that a person who is in reality a Christian is in reality a Satanist is defamation, which is what you called me here, by calling me an adversary of Christ:
“I don’t believe you’re trying to turn people to Christ. I believe you’re trying to turn them away.”
Along with your childish pestering of me to answer a question I had already clearly answered, this here is why I got fed up with you:
“lol, ha, I could end it right here and you lose Chain. but…”
I like serious debates, I don’t like childish games. This has been productive, however, which is why I have continued it. I have been able to spread some truth to the people reading this blog, so I thank you for the opportunity A Team.
God bless ya.
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Once again, that is your view.
I can bring out Hadith that prove she was 15 and MATURE
Btw, your view, your perspective
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No, truthseer, you cannot bring out SAHIH Hadith that states that Aisha was 15.
No proper Sunni scholar disputes SAHIH Bukhari or SAHIH Muslim. That is because they recognize that this hadith is SAHIH, it has been through the stringent “hadith science” to determine its reliability, and it has been considered SAHIH for over 1,000 years.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Aisha
Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: “Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.”
Sahih Muslim 8:3310
Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed (sic – consummated) that marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari 5:58:236
Narrated ‘Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64
Narrated ‘Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).” what you know of the Quran (by heart)’
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:65
Narrated ‘Ursa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:88
This article refutes modern Muslim apologetics which attempt to distort Aisha’s true age of consummation.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Refutation_to_Muslim_Apologetics_against_Aisha%27s_Age_of_Consummation
“Before we begin, one must realize that the majority of Muslims today (for example, Shaykh Gibril Haddad, whose work is referenced here) agree that Aisha was nine lunar years old when her marriage to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, was consummated. However, some modernist Islamic apologists try to cast doubt on the age of Aisha when she married and had sex with Muhammad despite the many sahih hadiths in which Aisha explicitly and directly states that she was nine years old at the time. They are clearly embarrassed that their prophet married and had sex with a nine-year-old pre-pubescent child, and they sometimes seek to explain that Aisha was in fact not nine-years-old as the Sahih hadiths of Aisha’s own testimony claim, but some other ages derived from misquotations, indirect sources, fuzzy dating techniques, and downright slander.”
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“You seem to again have this blog confused with a court of law.”
Wrong chain. I just understand the true meaning of words, while you don’t. I’ve have to explain the real meaning of “fact”, “evidence”, “paranoia”, and “defamation” words you used liberally (with the exception of paranoia) without real understanding.
I’ve explained a lot of things to you, and even if you haven’t grasped a lot of it, I’m sure others have and therefore my work here, while not done yet, has proven valuable.
I’m not your enemy for educating you. That’s just silly. That’s just paranoid.
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Your view, your lies
Ladies and Gentlemen, this man loves lying.
Use google since all of you aren’t Muslims
Not all Bukhari and Sahih Muslim Hadith ARE TRUE
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Yes, please do use Google and research the hadith, find out what the word “sahih” means when applied to hadith.
Please do research this for yourself, find out if Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are disputed by Sunni scholars.
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Link given below, Chain
I can reproduce hundreds.
It’s not the book but the chain
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Viewing public,
Witness the so disinformation shill “chainmaker” , conscious enabler of the one agent “vigilant”.
Notice that sense his appearance, back from “vacation” he has a lot to talk about but ain’t saying nothing.
Ironically, falling into several of the categories A team detailed, he can not allow himself to be apart of a conversation he does not control or is not the center of attention.
No one cares about your twisted and warped views on religion. Go back to your “save the males” site.
Your omission to provide information on the topic at hand is telling. Much like the star witness who refuses to testify.
But unlike the witness, his non existent ego is the hindrance. And he would rather hijack the conversation and be in control than run the risk of something unexpected happening _ allowing a murderer to go free. (or in this case, a disinfo agent to indoctrinate and brainwash young people)
From this point forward , any shock jock tactics by chain that is not relevant to the topic should , imo, be considered like all the other shills.
A distraction to the investigation.
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Evidently many people do care about my views on religion, including you FP, since you decided to speak negatively about me and my views on this blog long before I ever showed up to defend myself against your attacks.
It’s interesting that you believe that I am in control of this conversation, since all I have been doing for the majority of my time here is responding to questions and attacks made by others.
This is funny:
“disinformation shill “chainmaker” , conscious enabler of the one agent “vigilant”, [why is Vigilant the “one agent”?]
I happen to be in the same boat as you FP, banned from VC for being considered obnoxious.
I have given a very similar view of Vigilant to those given by Chaukadeer and A Team, that Vigilant’s primary motive is money.
A Team wrote:
“Truth is a misused word. Everyone thinks they have it, or are looking for it or using it in their discussions. That’s one of the reasons the myth of relative morality has such a strong hold on people these days. That’s a different discussion though. The reason why you felt the way you did Ben, is because the VC website is part and partial about instilling fear in your and secondly about profit. Like a good news rag instilling fear is important part of marketing. The profit from that website comes from it’s ad rotations and now also from the book he sells. Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else. Maybe VC is only interested in spreading their truth in so far as it can fill their wallets?”
Although I agree with the above in general, there is a logical contradiction there between these two statements:
“That’s one of the reasons the myth of relative morality has such a strong hold on people these days”
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
Relative morality means that there is no set code of absolute right and wrong that we should live by. If it is wrong to apply OUR values to someone else, when we are admitting that OUR values are relative, that OUR values might not apply to someone else, so then we OURSELVES buy into the myth of moral relativity.
Vigilant’s primary motive is either financial gain, or not.
If Vigilant’s primary motive is indeed financial gain, then that motive is either right or wrong.
If we believe that Vigilant’s primary motive could be right for him, but not right for us, then we have agreed that morality is relative, or subjective, as the self-proclaimed Satanists believe.
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“I like serious debates, I don’t like childish games. ”
No you like to make people angry, and in turn that makes you angry and you play games, witness how it took 8x asking before you give an answer to a simple yes/no question, then include an analogy of how you’re a snotty nosed brat. In fact, games is all you like to play. You’re a classic troll, just that you write a little better than most, albeit you’ve been at the game a lot longer than others. You pretend to be a Christian while failing at almost all of the characteristics a true Christian should be. Your posturing as a Christian is what makes people angry with Christians.
I think that whatever life circumstances led you to jail on three occasions, then finding what you think is Jesus, are unresolved. I’ve explained why already, and most people understand.
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Don’t Worry FP, chainmaker is vital to this investigation. We’re going to see first hand the inductive reasoning fallacies driven by delusions of grandeur in action and how to avoid becoming a Chain in the process. I’m more than amused and actually quite pleased that he said he was done with me 5 days ago and still can’t help responding. You are right that he does like to be center of attention and couldn’t stand that “toby” was getting it all in this blog, and even if he might be starting to understand that he was “stipulated” (lol, thanks for the context Sarge) into this discussion, it was not by his doing. He once told Daciple to let everyone know that he wasn’t interested and it was all nonsense. That changed somewhere along the way 😀
You see, VC needs hateful Christians with a vendetta like Chain, otherwise the gig doesn’t work right. The only problem was that Chain got out of control and what was once useful and profitable for Vigilant became a liability.
The others are much more obedient, with “Daciple” playing more the victim tha aggressor even though it can be seen as aggression when you based your whole argument strategy on interpreting scriptures for others and then if they do not agree with your interpretation you call them willfully ignorant. That’s pretty much his whole approach. Aside from not being able to write well, the argument itself can be painful. I don’t know how many people last the duration of one of his posts, but I assume it can’t be many.
Chain basically does the same thing, but he has one or two additional strategies. The “just because” followed by “doesn’t mean” one to write off anything he can’t process and then upping the “willfully ignorant” argument to all out “Satanist” accusations.
Chain also thinks he’s really clever hiding his racism behind “higher authorities” like Chris Rock. That may fool other adolescent minds because trolling is seen as a game to all of them, but not everyone. Too bad Chain’s arguments can’t stand up to a proper and thorough logical analysis. I could shred almost any one of them if I wanted to spend more time on it. Of course it would be met with “Just because you say it’s a fallacy doesn’t mean it is” grade school reasoning by Chain, and that’s not my point for being here, at the moment.
This means that his victims, those who believe in him, will generally be of lesser intelligence because they can’t understand the twists in logic that Chain employs and by sheer repetition some of the implications become “fact” to them.
My attempt here is to teach them what valid reasoning looks like. If they still fail to recognize it, well then they can suffer the consequences.
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Ah now it comes full circle.
The hatred against me on this blog started with the stereotypically racist “angry black woman” Femalepharoe’s projection of her hatred of the oppressive Man AKA the White Devil onto me in the form of slandering me as a racist since I once used Chris Rock’s definition and compared white trash to niggers and stated the non-racist truth that every race has its faction of lazy drug addicts and absent fathers.
So, with nothing else left to throw at me, other than
“you speak the truth about Islam, Nazism, Zionism and a lot of other nasty “isms”, you are so HATEFUL, arrrgh, a real Christian would never speak the truth that Mohammed was a child molestor because that might OFFEND someone arrghh so HATEFUL arrrghh.”
then A Team picks up the torch from Femalepharoe and reverts to the original slander
“that WHITE GUY used the word NIGGER, I don’t care what context he said it in he said NIGGER he is a RACIST full of HATE arrrrghhhh”
Of course, in the process of defending myself against slanderous attacks initiated by other people against me, and responding to questions about Toby drama posed by other people to me, I have made this all about myself.
And after I had already gotten tired of his childish pestering game of repeatedly asking me a question that i had already answered, after A Team baited me by making more false statements and slanderous attacks against me, the fact that I felt a need to continue to argue my case (and in the process give some lessons on the Bible and the Hadith) means that my motive is simply attention-whoring.
Believe whatever you want!
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@Chainmaker,
You know, for a supposed all-loving Christian, you sure let those racial slur words out quite easily….
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Ahhh but they were married. Molesting would be if they weren’t
And here’s a link for you:
http://www.abc.se/~m9783/k/whb_e.html
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The topic has repeatedly come up since people have repeatedly slandered me as racist.
Run a search on VC using my name and see how many instances of those two words that you find.
Seriously, I hope you do, you will find my original discussion with Femalepharoe about race in America, and you will find my final thread when Femalepharoe accused me of being racist, and then you can read it yourself and make your own conclusion.
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No excuse for using those terms
Read from here
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&hilit=Chain+Hexa+Satanic&start=130
Same refusal to say yes/no
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Truthseer,
If I, were a 51-year-old cult leader [Mohammed] and I were to convince my buddy to give me his 6-year-old daughter [Aisha] to marry because I tell him that it’s an order from God, and I put a little Toddlers and Tiaras wedding dress on her and have a ceremony where she says “I do” because that’s what her brainwashed father[Abu Bakr] told her to say, and then 3 years later when I am 54, I “consummate the marriage” by taking the now 9-year-old child to bed…
I would still be a demented child molestor, even if I had the child brainwashed into loving me for molesting her.
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Read that link. Contrary to what you believe, I think
And I’ll not take morality from a guy who said this:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&hilit=Chain+Hexa+Satanic&start=180
FP wrote:
Do you pray to God out of the fear of eternal flames or your love and submission to God the father in the name of Christ?
You:
Both
And also
You:
if there is no punishment and reward, God is not just, and those who think there is morality without a Just God are atheists.
You wouldn’t care for the fact the He CREATED YOU! All you care about is reward.
Even if my reward was told to me to be Hell, I’d STILL WORSHIP GOD!
Because he CREATED ME!
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Well, could we stop by the religious discussion by the way?
It’s getting stupid
If you want to debate religions, join a forum
Not that I care since your ILLOGIC is visible
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http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&hilit=Chain+Hexa+Satanic&start=200
This caught my eye by Chain. Seems SO TRUE NOW!:
Because that forum member is preaching it.
Preaching it as truth from the ether.
That forum member is the most powerful enemy of God on this board.
____________________________________________________________
This thread is about Hexa. It’s SO TRUE NOW!
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Direct link to White trash:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&hilit=Chain+Hexa+Satanic&sid=61847f8428c15d682c7c052c9d3c1a24&start=210
Quote:
White trash and niggers are the same.
Crips and Bloods is what they are.
The white trash and the niggers are the most racist of anyone.
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I stand by everything I said that you posted truthseer.
I hope that people read that thread you posted, I hope they read it from the beginning, and I hope they run a search for those two racial slurs using my name so they can read my initial discussion of race with Femalepharoe so they have the background to understand it all.
If you would worship a god who created you for the purpose of torturing you in hell then you worship an evil god.
I do not worship an unjust God.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. — Jesus
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He created us, though I admit the example was bad.
I also agree with you about Justice but is Reward the sole reason for worship
For the record, I also disagree with amne and Hexa that Non-Muslims can go to Heaven. The only people who have a Chance are those who never heard the truth or People of the Book
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I worship God out of thankfulness, respect, awe and yes, fear, as Jesus said I should fear God.
Amne is what I always said she is, a fake Muslim. She does not believe the Qur’an, she cherry picks what she wants.
You are much closer to true Islamic belief, from my reading of the Qur’an.
Of course, if you were really serious, you would be off doing your duty in war against the Zionists and the Crusaders.
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Chain…
This is from Surah Baqarah
Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight against you, but do not transgress limits. Lo! Allah loves not aggressors. … And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against transgressors.”
Surah Al Hajj
“To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to defend themselves), because they are wronged – and verily, Allah is Most Powerful to give them victory – (they are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right – (for no cause) except that they say, ‘Our Lord is Allah’…. ”
No, the Zionists have not attacked us, the country or Saudi yet.
When they do, I will join the Pakistan Army and defend the land
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There is no full circle. It’s always been a straight line with you A to B, you try to make twists in the road to confuse those with lesser attention spans, perhaps, but you can’t fool people who can out think you, like me for example 😀
Speaking hatefully gets you the responses you get. That’s it. Occam’s Razor, no imaginative belief that you’re disliked because you spread “truth”.
You don’t know Jesus, you identify with 10% of his behavior. The behavior that he expressed towards religious leaders 2000 years ago. You openly say you are angry, violent, confrontational and will wield a sword against your enemies because that is what Jesus did, purposefully ignoring 90% of the rest of his behaviors.
You do this because you don’t understand the rest of it, because as we speak it is not in you and therefore no connection can be made.
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So you have bought into the infidel doctrine of nationalism, instead of seeing all Muslims as worthy of defending, you will only defend Pakistan where the law is still based on infidel British law instead of full Sharia.
Mohammed and the Righteously Guided Caliphs made no distinction between different nations of Muslims, there was one Islamic Empire to spread and defend.
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That was then, this is now
The Palestinians who refuse to fight for their own rights are as Muslim as Hexa. So why help apostates?
And the Hamas are people who use children as shield and use western money to build parks? Apostates again
And the Hezbolla cowardly attack civilians in direct opposition to doctrine so why help them?
The Taliban commit suicide bombings. Suicide is forbidden, why help them?
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That was then, this is now, but shouldn’t you be fighting to restore the Islamic Empire that was then?
Obviously this division of the Muslim world into different states based on lines drawn by European infidels is not what Mohammed wanted.
You have many excuses, but why would you defend the Saudis? Their government is in bed with the Zionists and the Crusaders, the royalty spent their time snorting coke with strippers in Europe.
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The Kabah’s there, no other reason
Quote:
why would you defend the Saudis? Their government is in bed with the Zionists and the Crusaders
Same applies to Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine.
Sure, if Iran is attacked, that is different
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You would defend the rejectionist apostate Shiites?
You do realize your Paki government is in bed with the West too right?
My taxes go to fund the Paki Army killing the Muslims who are trying to establish a true Islamic state under Sharia.
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Stupid Stupid Stupid Stupid
Here we go, the TALIBAN are according to him TRUE MUSLIMS!
They step on every doctrine given yet here he calls them REAL MUSLIMS~
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He’s trollin you TS. He just trying to take the focus away from my debunking of his childish imaginations and inductive reasoning errors.
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Truthseer, what are these doctrines you believe the Taliban are not following?
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Suicide is forbidden. Killing civilians too
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An Islamic suicide bomber isn’t committing a suicide of self-loathing depression, a suicide of unthankfulness to God, he is committing a selfless military action in which he dies as collateral damage in the act of killing many of the enemies of God, from his point-of-view. Does the soldier in war who jumps on a grenade to save his friends commit a sin? The Iranians who you said you would defend used teenage boys to clear minefields with their own bodies in the war with Iraq. Was that a sin? The boys were told they would die as glorious martyrs. Civilians always die in war, that’s unavoidable. Mohammed himself said that the death of enemy women and children is just part of war:
It is reported on the authority of Sa’b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.” (Sahih Muslim 4322, see also Bukhari 52:256)
“They are from them” No big deal. I can imagine him shrugging his shoulders.
Here Mohammed said it’s okay to kill a child as long as you are sure that the child will not grow up to be a Muslim.
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside. (Sahih Muslim 4457)
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“An Islamic suicide bomber isn’t committing a suicide of self-loathing depression, a suicide of unthankfulness to God, he is committing a selfless military action in which he dies as collateral damage in the act of killing many of the enemies of God, from his point-of-view.”
They said the Unabomber was a “Christian”, do you agree?
How about Norway shooting: Anders Behring Breivik? He claimed to be Christian too.
If you disagree that he was a true Christian, but only a Christian by title, then is it not also possible that those who commit crimes in the name of Islam or any other religion (inclusive of using said religion to call names) are not true representatives?
Maybe to you that’s not the case, but then that’s an inconsistent way of looking at two relatively similar things.
Doing evil in the name of a religion makes the one doing the evil…evil. You need to learn to separate the trees from the forest. That doesn’t mean I agree with Islam, but if I were to debate a Muslim and I have on many occasions, I wouldn’t start off by saying something that would almost certainly incite them to violence. That’s stupid.
That also has nothing to do with being lukewarm towards their beliefs, but it has to do with basic human courtesy and respect. This person probably truly believes in their world view and if you want to help bring some light to it, you need to be more tactful, and show them some basic respect. That’s normal in debate. If, on the other hand, they attack you violently and physically because you said respectfully that you don’t believe in their religion, then you have all the right to respond to force with force.
That’s a different story.
Please try hard not to distort what I have said.
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Quote:
An Islamic suicide bomber isn’t committing a suicide of self-loathing depression, a suicide of unthankfulness to God, he is committing a selfless military action in which he dies as collateral damage in the act of killing many of the enemies of God, from his point-of-view. Does the soldier in war who jumps on a grenade to save his friends commit a sin? The Iranians who you said you would defend used teenage boys to clear minefields with their own bodies in the war with Iraq. Was that a sin?
Answer your question TOO. Is that a sin for a Christian?
You’re willfully giving examples of two different situations… ON PURPOSE here.
I’m not getting mad here. I’m just feeling sorry for you.
Tell me what the relation between suicide bombing killing civilians and a soldier defending a friend is.
Also, as for the Hadith, it deals with a situation that has already happened and I see it has a strong Chain so I won’t dispute it.
However, show me one where there are ORDERS to kill civilians
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They said the Unabomber was a “Christian”, do you agree?
How about Norway shooting: Anders Behring Breivik? He claimed to be Christian too.
If you disagree that he was a true Christian, but only a Christian by title, then is it not also possible that those who commit crimes in the name of Islam or any other religion (inclusive of using said religion to call names) are not true representatives?
Maybe to you that’s not the case, but then that’s an inconsistent way of looking at two relatively similar things.
Doing evil in the name of a religion makes the one doing the evil…evil. You need to learn to separate the trees from the forest. That doesn’t mean I agree with Islam, but if I were to debate a Muslim and I have on many occasions, I wouldn’t start off by saying something that would almost certainly incite them to violence. That’s stupid.
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Neither the Unabomber or Breivek claimed to be religious Christians. Breivek specifically mentioned that he associated with Christianity only as a European cultural identifier.
I have read much of the Qur’an, plenty of Hadith, and plenty of Islamic history, and it is obvious to me that violence to spread Islamic empire was condoned by Mohammed, offensive violence was condoned by Mohammed, and civilian collateral casualties were condoned by Mohammed.
The same cannot be said of Jesus, who preached non-violence.
The Muslim suicide bomber is not breaking any command from Mohammed when he attacks targets with the intent of spreading Islamic government. He is not committing a crime according to the Qur’an and Sunnah. He is not doing evil according to fundamental Islamic morality, he is doing good.
Truthseer and I have already had this conversation before, it’s just a rehash. I am not inciting him to violence, I am giving him my view which is the fundamentalist Islamic view that violence is the duty of a true Muslim.
He can choose to stop ignoring the commands of Mohammed and go join the Taliban, or he can choose to realize the immorality of Islam and leave that belief, or he can continue along as he is, which is what he will do anyway.
I won’t censor myself and refuse to tell him the truth about what the Qur’an teaches about violence for fear that he will actually commit violence. That is like refusing to tell a White Supremacist that Hitler preached death to the Jews, for fear that the White Supremacist might actually kill a Jew.
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That also has nothing to do with being lukewarm towards their beliefs, but it has to do with basic human courtesy and respect. This person probably truly believes in their world view and if you want to help bring some light to it, you need to be more tactful, and show them some basic respect. That’s normal in debate. If, on the other hand, they attack you violently and physically because you said respectfully that you don’t believe in their religion, then you have all the right to respond to force with force.
That’s a different story.
Please try hard not to distort what I have said.
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This I can agree with. This is insightful, and I thank you for it.
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“Neither the Unabomber or Breivek claimed to be religious Christians.”
What sort of Christians did they claim to be then, and what does that matter? If they wrote and used scripture to back their evil up, does it make all Christians evil? You and I both know the answer to that is no. By the same token, someone who claims Islam as their religion while murdering can’t represent all of Islam. If you accept one you must accept the other.
Again, you have to differentiate the trees from the forest.
Chainmaker
“I won’t censor myself and refuse to tell him the truth about what the Qur’an teaches about violence for fear that he will actually commit violence.”
I’m not going to comment on what you ‘perceive’ the Koran to teach because it’s been a while since I read it and actually I don’t really trust the way you go to extremes interpreting what I’ve said, what the Bible says, and what others have said. I’ve observed too many misinterpretations to hold you as an authority on this, and quite frankly I don’t care. I have my opinion about Islam, and if I encounter a Muslim that wants to debate I certainly won’t disrespect him by telling him the prophet he reveres is a murdering rapist, or anything spiteful like that. Even if I believed it to be true, this person I am debating is a person that deserves to be treated respectfully until the time comes when he/she acts disrespectfully. You can choose to walk way then. Until that time you have to use tacts because insulting his prophet is going to anger him and then you have no chance of reaching him with whatever message you are trying to spread.
If you act this way in real life you will have likely encoutered violence. I think you do not act this “tough” in real life. You take it out on anonymous victims in anonymous forums so you can get away with it.
In fact you admitted such in your thread, that you can do it on VC because you won’t get “socked in the eye”.
That’s sort of cowardly, if you ask me.
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That also has nothing to do with being lukewarm towards their beliefs, but it has to do with basic human courtesy and respect. This person probably truly believes in their world view and if you want to help bring some light to it, you need to be more tactful, and show them some basic respect. That’s normal in debate. If, on the other hand, they attack you violently and physically because you said respectfully that you don’t believe in their religion, then you have all the right to respond to force with force.
That’s a different story.
Please try hard not to distort what I have said.
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This I can agree with. This is insightful, and I thank you for it.
______________________________________________________
I’ve basically said the same thing a dozen times now.
If you really truly did understand it, why don’t you try putting it to practice then?
You can also start by recognizing when you use different themes in your interpretation of the Bible, as applied to your own actions….
You really do have an awfully bad habit of contradicting yourself you know…
Chainmaker,
“The same cannot be said of Jesus, who preached non-violence.”
earlier
Chainmaker says,
“Wrong. We are commanded to hate.”
One of Chain’s retorts:
“Jesus came to bring a sword, and Paul said exactly what the Sword of the Spirit is, and I use it. I am extremely violent with it, I am a soldier of God.”
So when it’s appropriate you portray Jesus as violent, proclaim you are a Jesus Mimic and proceed to attack others with the “word of God”. Then when you feel right to attack other religions as violent, you claim that Jesus preached non-violence.
You’re cherry picking based on your moods, which at least in so far as we can decipher the various contradictions in your mood, seems to change rapidly and to the extremes.
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What sort of Christians did they claim to be then, and what does that matter? If they wrote and used scripture to back their evil up, does it make all Christians evil? You and I both know the answer to that is no. By the same token, someone who claims Islam as their religion while murdering can’t represent all of Islam. If you accept one you must accept the other.
Again, you have to differentiate the trees from the forest.
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To my knowledge the Unabomber did not claim Christianity or use any Bible verse to excuse his actions, and Breivek specifically made sure to mention in his manifesto that he did not have a personal relationship with Jesus, that he used Christianity as a European cultural identifier. He said there is a such thing as a “Christian atheist”. He did not use Bible verses to excuse his actions.
The suicide bomber does not consider his action to be murder, he considers it a military strike, and he does represent fundamental Islam.
Most who call themselves Muslims do not represent true fundamental Islam, just as most who call themselves Christians do not represent fundamental Christianity.
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I’m not going to comment on what you ‘perceive’ the Koran to teach because it’s been a while since I read it and actually I don’t really trust the way you go to extremes interpreting what I’ve said, what the Bible says, and what others have said. I’ve observed too many misinterpretations to hold you as an authority on this, and quite frankly I don’t care. I have my opinion about Islam, and if I encounter a Muslim that wants to debate I certainly won’t disrespect him by telling him the prophet he reveres is a murdering rapist, or anything spiteful like that. Even if I believed it to be true, this person I am debating is a person that deserves to be treated respectfully until the time comes when he/she acts disrespectfully. You can choose to walk way then. Until that time you have to use tacts because insulting his prophet is going to anger him and then you have no chance of reaching him with whatever message you are trying to spread.
If you act this way in real life you will have likely encoutered violence. I think you do not act this “tough” in real life. You take it out on anonymous victims in anonymous forums so you can get away with it.
In fact you admitted such in your thread, that you can do it on VC because you won’t get “socked in the eye”.
That’s sort of cowardly, if you ask me.
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I am being respectful to a Muslim, I am showing love to a Muslim, by telling him the truth that his prophet was a false prophet and explaining why. The false prophet deserves no respect.
Warren Jeffs deserves no respect as a prophet either, and I would not give any respect to Warren Jeffs if I ever had an opportunity to debate one of his followers.
The message that I am trying to spread is that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins.
That message will never be accepted by a Muslim who retains faith in Mohammed. The foundation of the lie of Satan that is Islam must be attacked to expose the falsehood. The foundation is the false prophet Mohammed on whom all of Islam is built.
I am glad the God has allowed me the opportunity to use the internet as a tool to spread his Truth and expose the Lies, I am glad that many people cme to debate religion on internet forums where no one can get physically hurt because some people would resort to physical violence when exposed to the truth.
I don’t believe what I am doing is cowardly at all, but I believe that Christians under the draconian censorship of Muslim nations who spread the gospel where it is actually against the law to do so have great courage.
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So when it’s appropriate you portray Jesus as violent, proclaim you are a Jesus Mimic and proceed to attack others with the “word of God”. Then when you feel right to attack other religions as violent, you claim that Jesus preached non-violence.
You’re cherry picking based on your moods, which at least in so far as we can decipher the various contradictions in your mood, seems to change rapidly and to the extremes.
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It seems that you have a hard time differentiating between spiritual warfare and physical warfare.
I battle with the pen, not the sword.
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Chainmaker says,
“Wrong. We are commanded to hate.”
One of Chain’s retorts:
“Jesus came to bring a sword, and Paul said exactly what the Sword of the Spirit is, and I use it. I am extremely violent with it, I am a soldier of God.”
That’s pretty self explanatory. No amount of back peddling on your part now can change it. You should think before you speak so you are not so hasty with your words.
Proverbs 29:20
Do you see a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 15:1
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
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They were KILLED ALREADY not KILLED PURPOSELY!
Show me one example of woman being KILLED PURPOSELY!
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The suicide bomber doesn’t target innocents purposefully either.
They are usually aiming for police or military targets, representatives of infidel governments. In Israel they sometimes target the occupier civilians living on stolen land, most of whom are involved in some form as reserve military.
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I’m not going to comment on what you ‘perceive’ the Koran to teach because it’s been a while since I read it and actually I don’t really trust the way you go to extremes interpreting what I’ve said, what the Bible says, and what others have said. I’ve observed too many misinterpretations to hold you as an authority on this, and quite frankly I don’t care. I have my opinion about Islam, and if I encounter a Muslim that wants to debate I certainly won’t disrespect him by telling him the prophet he reveres is a murdering rapist, or anything spiteful like that. Even if I believed it to be true, this person I am debating is a person that deserves to be treated respectfully until the time comes when he/she acts disrespectfully. You can choose to walk way then. Until that time you have to use tacts because insulting his prophet is going to anger him and then you have no chance of reaching him with whatever message you are trying to spread.
If you act this way in real life you will have likely encoutered violence. I think you do not act this “tough” in real life. You take it out on anonymous victims in anonymous forums so you can get away with it.
In fact you admitted such in your thread, that you can do it on VC because you won’t get “socked in the eye”.
That’s sort of cowardly, if you ask me.
______________________________
btw, your act of ignoring the specific message I wrote (above) by rationalizing it away with the delusion that you love someone when you insult their religion, belief system just show the lengths you go to justify and rationalize your primary incentive of provoking anger. No amount of truth that provoking anger in others will not make them receptive to the truth, is reaching you. Perseveration for your anger. Justifications of provoking anger in others, is all you are intent on defending.
You are not out to spread the truth. That’s obvious.
We all know that. Your fellow Christians know that, and Jesus knows that, which is why he said when he comes again and people like you say “have I not preached in your name” he will answer “I do not know you”.
It’s because you do it from hate
“I certainly am full of hate”
and not from love
“love your brother as I have loved you”
You twist the meaning of that statement to imply that you love people by being truthful. It’s black/white reasoning, which is extreme, which is irrational.
There is a better way, but you don’t want it because your primary motive is to incite anger.
That is why Jesus will never know you, unless you have an epiphany and learn to truly love others and spread truth with love. When they reject it, you don’t get angry and start “spitting on their sacred cows” you walk away because you did all you can do.
Spitting on sacred cows
using the word violently, as you admit to doing
being full of hate
all wrong.
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Wrong. We are commanded to hate.
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked. — Psalm 97:10
“To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.” — Proverbs 8:14
I claim to be full of hate. Yes, I am full of hate, but I am also full of love. I hate the Darkness, and I love the Light. You cannot love without hating. If you do not hate the idea of your child being molested, then you do not love your child.
I love my brother, which is why I tell him that I hate the immorality of his false prophet and the immorality of the doctrine preached by his false prophet.
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Where is the “The A Team” to get things back on track here? Come back A Team!
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LOL, does everyone remember yesterday when our friend Chainmaker cried that he was being defames when I gave my opinion that his behavior most assuredly drives more people away from the Bible and the truth of Jesus than brings them to it? He said it was defamation. His words communicated that he felt he was being persecuted (paranoia by definition). He ignores it when he is reminded that he calls others names like Satanist when they fit the “definition” as put forward by other “self proclaimed” Satanist. In this instance Chain reasons that because a definition of Satanism is put forth by an outside source, it is good enough for him to use that definition to label someone else with.
Right or wrong, either way, do you wonder why Chain refuses to offer the same courtesy to others?
That is, if by definition he fits the bill of a paranoid and irrational conspiracy theorist and someone who suffers from delusions of grandeur, it is not defamation for saying so.
What’s even better is that Chainmaker said he was defamed because someone (me) challenged him for spreading hatred as a “Christian”, sharing my opinion that his behavior is actually very Anti-Christian. He is not forgiving, kind or compassionate even though Jesus was to many people. He uses the example of Jesus becoming angry with Pharisees (religious leaders 2000 years ago) to justify his anger towards common people of today.
But here is hypocrisy in motion, Chain says it’s defamation to imply he’s not a true Christian, but here are his words towards someone else who claims she is a Muslim:
“Amne is what I always said she is, a fake Muslim”
You see, hypocrisy works that way. It’s do as I say, not as I do type of behavior. Chain is ok to call someone else a fake, but cries that he’s being persecuted (paranoid) when he is called a fake.
Poor Chain, the persecuted [fake] Christian.
I do feel compassion for you Chain, but then I also feel the need to tell you the truth about you.
And it’s not nice to lie Chain. I never called you a Satanist.
But I am sure that your imagination has found a way to induce that belief in you. I want nothing more for you and others who suffer as you do to be healed. I will pray that you get the help you need.
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* defamed, not defames
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A Team, why are you keeping this discussion focused on me?
Femalepharoe said she doesn’t want this to be about me anymore, and I am pretty sure that everyone is getting really impatient waiting for your Episode 10: Wrath of the Pysch Textbook Menace.
There’s no hypocrisy, see, I don’t fit the definition of a paranoid delusional, but you do fit the definition of a liar and a slanderer.
I never cried that I was persecuted by you, I just stepped up to the plate and defended my beliefs, the thing that annoyed me about you is your childish games asking me a question I already answered more than once. When someone attacks you, and you state the obvious that they are attacking you, that doesn’t qualify as paranoia.
Satan means Adversary, as in, adversary of God, so for you to say that I intentionally am leading people away from Christ is tantamount and equal to calling me a Satanist. That’s simple logic.
Now my dear A Team, you really don’t know how kind and compassionate I am or am not, all you know is that I have no compassion for evil belief systems like Zionism, Islam, and Nazism.
You might not be able to differentiate between Islam and a Muslim, but I can.
Amne does not believe a lot of things the Qur’an clearly says, as truthseer recognizes, and for a Muslim to say that there is no hell, as Amne does, among many other views heretical to Islam, means that Amne believes something other than the Qur’an, which makes her something other than a Muslim.
That’s not defamation to call her a fake Muslim, it’s easy to prove, she admits she doesn’t believe the Qur’an.
But A Team, you haven’t been able to prove that I don’t believe the Bible, or even that anything I have said is anti-Christan. You have made the allegation, but whenever it comes to a Biblical debate, you run away.
So, if you want to debate religion with me, let’s do it, I like doing that.
Or, you could quit being obsessed with me, and show us your amazing, jaw-dropping evidence that you have uncovered that you have been tantalizing us with for so long…
the suspense is just killing me.
I’ll say a prayer for you too A Team, God bless ya.
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Chainmaker try not to delude yourself into believing anything is about you.
[Paranoia [ˌpar.rəˈnoɪ.ə] (adjective: paranoid [ˈpar.rə.noɪd]) is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs, or beliefs of conspiracy concerning a perceived threat towards oneself. False accusations and the distrust of others also frequently accompany paranoia.]
You came here out of your own volition, and still 15 days after saying you wouldn’t be around any longer, you can’t help yourself and need to see what is going to be said. That is why I delayed lesson 10 for this long.
I’m using you as an example. And you have gone through great lengths to make this about you, which is/was obvious with your trolling. You wanted TS to take the bait so you could have another “quickie” provocation session to draw inspiration from. I don’t need to explain how wrong that sort of behavior is to most other people.
Again you don’t understand the word you use. Slander is the spoken form of defamation, libel is the written form.
If I were to have “defamed” you, which by definition is impossible because you are anonymous 😉 then on a text based medium it would be called Libel, not slander. Get it right silly 😉
“Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.”
Your perception of slander/defamation is by definition paranoia/
I already explained your failure to understand defamation, and you’ve gone to tactic #4 in your repertoire, when all else fails just call your adversary a liar. Where have I lied?
” she admits she doesn’t believe the Qur’an.” – burden of proof. Where has she said that she doesn’t believe in the Quran. That’s a cheap shot Chain, because unless she’s reading this, she won’t be able to defend against this bold faced lie of yours. Are there no depths of deception that you’re unwilling to wade in?
Your twists in the narrative are obvious for all to see, that you feel persecuted because I have identified aspects of your behavior that fit textbook definitions of paranoid, delusional, grandiose and irrational.
You brought this on yourself.
What goes around comes around. You reaped what you sowed. Made your bed, now lying (literally) in it. Need I go on?
Crying and lying about it won’t help.
I’m not running Chain, on the contrary, I have you right where I want you 😉 Don’t forget that. You’re still here because I’ve made it that way.
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I think that the precise legal definitions between slander, libel, and defamation don’t really amount to a hill of beans, since they all are synonyms and we are not in a court of law.
I actually got a good chuckle out of your allegation that my use of the word “slander” instead of “libel” makes me paranoid. LOL. Just means that I might have missed that question playing trivia.
I already showed where you lied, so here we go again, you said you haven’t attacked me, which is very silly and gives me more chuckles.
“I have not attacked you, you are imagining things again.”
“I call you out as a coward period”
“You fool…Delusions is all you have.”
Amne and I had a great many long debates about religion and politics, I told her I believe she is a fake Muslim, and anyone interested can run a search for “fake Muslim” and find some threads to read.
You are correct A Team, I am still here mainly because of you, because you have baited me with attacks, and because I believe that this is a good opportunity to defend my views and spread the Biblical truth in the process.
Mainly though, it is because I am sitting around waiting on parts instead of fishing, which is a bummer.
But this is a good way to pass the time. 🙂
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“I think that the precise legal definitions between slander, libel, and defamation don’t really amount to a hill of beans, since they all are synonyms and we are not in a court of law.”
So you don’t value the precise definition of a word? You don’t value communicating what you mean by accepted definitions, or only when an “outsider” tells you what a Satanists is so you can justify calling anyone who doesn’t agree with you a Satanist?
Further, if those words are only relevant in a court of law, why are you using them here, lol? 😀 Makes no sense. Now that’s just silly.
Of course the reality of this is that claiming they’re only relevant in a court of law is just another way to hide from the fact that you misused them, didn’t understand their meaning and don’t really respect the proper definitions of words. You used them to hide behind the veil that you’re being persecuted, which has been accurately identified as paranoid behavior. Just saying.
Your disrespect of law and the courts furthers shows you have little respect for facts and real evidence, as the courts try to base decisions on reproducible facts and evidence.
In the end, it’s just a straw man for you having been caught out using terms which you don’t understand. I know that it must be embarrassing.
“You are correct A Team, I am still here mainly because of you, because you have baited me with attacks”
I have never once lied about anything you said, but you have of me. You’re here because you’ve been “stipulated”. In the process I get a good opportunity to show what deductive reasoning is (true logic) vs inductive fallacious reasoning (what you use).
Your participation has been essential. I don’t want you to leave any time soon, and I will deliver lesson 10 when I see fit. For now, this discourse with you is very relevant.
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You said that you believe I am an imposter willfully leading people away from Christ.
That is tantamount to calling me a Satanist. I never said that you directly called me a Satanist.
So, with the thesaurus listing posted for you, with “libel”, “slander”, and “defamation” all listed as synomnyms,
you declare that they are not synonyms.
I think I will go ahead and believe the thesaurus.
Yep, they are synonyms, and nope, the technicality of whether the slander is written or the libel is spoken doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. 🙂
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The difference is, I don’t fit your definition of paranoid delusional, that’s just your faulty view.
Broken record for broken record…you said that you believe I am an imposter willfully leading people away from Christ. That is tantamount to calling me a Satanist. I never said that you directly called me a Satanist.
So, with the thesaurus listing posted for you, with “libel”, “slander”, and “defamation” all listed as synomnyms,
you declare that they are not synonyms.
I think I will go ahead and believe the thesaurus.
Yep, they are synonyms, and nope, the technicality of whether the slander is written or the libel is spoken doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. 🙂
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sigh…Chauk please set up a message board lol I’m getting confused. The above was supposed to go below…
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Well for one, it’s not “my definition” it’s a standardized one which is accepted by credible professionals. Yes, you and “Daciple” actually do fit it. I’ve proven that without question numerous times now.
Self Deception is the worst kind of deception.
Carry on….
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“you said that you believe I am an imposter willfully leading people away from Christ. That is tantamount to calling me a Satanist. I never said that you directly called me a Satanist.”
When your default pattern is to rely on your imagination when evidence is non existent, you fit another one of the patterns for recognizing paranoia.
Irrational ideas are irrational. You’ve been corrected a few times now, and since you haven’t ackonwledged the correction Occam tells us you are being deceptive on purpose.
Deceiving is something that Jesus warns people about.
He says the one who intentionally sets out to deceive is a fake Christian.
Jesus is calling you a fake Christian then, not me.
Chain,
“So, with the thesaurus listing posted for you, with “libel”, “slander”, and “defamation” all listed as synomnyms,
you declare that they are not synonyms.
I think I will go ahead and believe the thesaurus.”
I’m glad you have found a thesaurus. It means you’re starting to do research. Doing proper research is good. I’m sure I’ve had a positive impact on you in that regard. I’m happy about that.
Synonym is a word that has nearly the same meaning as another, so you are correct, they are synonyms. I was wrong to say they were not. Of course they have the same meaning, silly, just different use. Slander is spoken. Libel is written. Both are forms of defamation.
You imagining that you have been “defamed” while being anonymous, is delusional by definition. Therefore calling you delusional is not an attack. It’s truth.
I won’t be “censored” for speaking the truth just because it angers someone. They are angry because it’s truth.
Sound familiar Chain? 😉
You’re obviously embarrassed that you used them wrong. I use your embarrassment to my advantage to show another characteristic of the paranoid and irrational conspiracy theorist….perseveration on an argument that has been proven wrong by fact and evidence.
And if the proper use of defamation is only applicable in a court of law, as you assert, then why did you use it here?
Carry on 😉
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you called? 😀
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I didn’t disrespect the law or the courts, I simply said we are not in a court of law. Where you got “disrespect” from that simple statement I don’t know, but that sure sounds delusional to me.
Pretty simple to respond to this bunk from the thesaurus.
Main Entry:
slander [slan-der] Show IPA
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: scandalous remark
Synonyms: aspersion, backbiting, backstabbing, belittlement, black eye, calumny, defamation, depreciation, detraction, dirt*, dirty linen, disparagement, hit*, libel, lie, misrepresentation, muckraking, mud, mud-slinging, obloquy, rap, scandal, slam*, slime, smear, tale
A Team, we are not in a court of law, and we do not need to use precise legal definitions of words. All these words are synonyms that mean the same basic thing.
Whether you spoke your libel, or wrote your slander :), you have attacked me, you have belittled me, you have muckraked me, you slang mud at me, you smeared me, you misrepresented my statements, you defamed me.
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So you just seem to think the proper application of defamation (your imagined attack) is only applicable in court rooms. Aside from using slander incorrectly (as it is spoken version of defamation…the word you were looking for is libel), then why would you use the words here…. ie; not in a court room?
You contradicted yourself….again.
“A Team, we are not in a court of law, and we do not need to use precise legal definitions of words. All these words are synonyms that mean the same basic thing.”
Again, no, they are not synonyms, they are different forms. Defamation only applies to someone who is not anonymous. You admit you are anonymous. I can hardly be “defaming” you by pointing out you largely use inductive fallacies for your arguments, act in paranoid ways (people are persecuting me) and angry with your use of the Bible to spread hate on others. Those are observations based on fact. They don’t qualify as attacks.
Slander is spoken form of defamation
Libel is written
If you were to use the varieties properly you would have claimed (albeit erroneously) that I was slandering you.
Saying we are not in a court room and therefore using proper terms and definitions is irrelevant is just rationalizing away that you made errors in the terms and your perception of persecution.
So here we have Chain saying it’s ok to call people names if they fit descriptions given to them by others, but when he fits a textbook description of common irrational paranoid behavior he is being “slandered” in a text based medium.
Funny…not really.
You attacked me by lying that I called you a Satanist. See how easy that was…but I don’t care because it’s easy to use Control F and see that I never called you a Satanist and that you are indeed a liar.
Unconsciously you are communicating that you are offended being called a Satanist, even though you imagined that one, but then you defend when you do it to others.
You are the Pot calling the Kettle Black…
I will pray for you…as always.
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I would like people to notice he uses a slang insulting term Paki coined by people that want to destroy this country
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I didn’t realize that abbreviating Pakistani made it a slur, that sounded pretty far-fatched to me but Google says it to be true. Still seems quite silly to me, but I will apologize truthseer.
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There is absolutely no way that you, living in America with “niggers” and “white trash” all around you, as you have not so eloquently put it, did not know that “Paki” was a slur. Everyone knows that, unless they live in a cave. You lost control and used the word, then later realized it would implicate you further as a racist and retorted by stating the Google says it is so, which is funny in itself because I once remember someone saying that all your information is gleaned from Google searches, and most of the sources are not credible.
Basing your beliefs on no so credible sources does not mean you know what you are talking about.
You lost control, typed out a known slur, realized your mistake and are now back peddling.
That’s not very nice.
Jesus is not happy when you do that.
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No, I did not realize that Paki was a slur. I live in America, and I don’t believe I have actually ever meant anyone from Pakistan. We don’t have a large population of Pakistanis and sp people here don’t have any idea what the slur is for a Pakistani, but now I found out.
It seems very silly to me that Pakistanis would actually take offense to a simple abbreviation of the word, but Google says that happened in Britain.
I never called any individual “white trash” or “nigger”, I referred to a faction of whites and blacks, and I did not say “Paki Army” as a slur, I said it to mean Pakistani army, and I think that someone needs to come up with a new slur for Pakistanis so we can all type a simple abbreviation “Paki” without having someone scream racism, but that won’t happen.
I apologized to truthseer, and that is that.
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For the record, next time, you can use Pak Army.
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We noticed, and recognize that Paki is a slur. He’s not fooling anyone TS. He’s just having a laugh at how he can get a rise out of people. Don’t bite the bait.
Chain, it’s not nice to lie and deceive people.
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______________________________
A Team wrote:
“Truth is a misused word. Everyone thinks they have it, or are looking for it or using it in their discussions. That’s one of the reasons the myth of relative morality has such a strong hold on people these days. That’s a different discussion though. The reason why you felt the way you did Ben, is because the VC website is part and partial about instilling fear in your and secondly about profit. Like a good news rag instilling fear is important part of marketing. The profit from that website comes from it’s ad rotations and now also from the book he sells. Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else. Maybe VC is only interested in spreading their truth in so far as it can fill their wallets?”
Although I agree with the above in general, there is a logical contradiction there between these two statements:
“That’s one of the reasons the myth of relative morality has such a strong hold on people these days”
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
Relative morality means that there is no set code of absolute right and wrong that we should live by. If it is wrong to apply OUR values to someone else, when we are admitting that OUR values are relative, that OUR values might not apply to someone else, so then we OURSELVES buy into the myth of moral relativity.
________________________________________________
Chain,
You’re twisting the word around again, you’re therefore lying.
I didn’t “admit” my values were relative.
You’ve put that in my mouth. How can you call yourself a follower of Jesus when you seek to gain “points” in a debate by being so obviously deceptive?
what follows from that lie is classic Inductive Reasoning Fallacy.
Like you did a few days ago, you’re reaching for whatever you can to hurl at me, but it’s not working.
If I force you to accept my values, then I am taking away your free will.
That is all the statement means.
If you truly do not understand that, your reading comprehension is at a low level. When you put words into someone else’s mouth, it’s an entirely different thing. It is what you do repetitively in a debate when you have been caught out.
Of course in your perfect world, you probably would want to do that sort of thing, and force everyone to have your morality (no thanks, I don’t want hate in my heart) and even if you’ve imagined yourself to be like God or Jesus in the past, we are all very fortunate that you never will be with an attitude like that.
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Your statement is clear.
You used the word “guilt” to describe the activity of applying your morality to someone else. That makes it “wrong” for a person to judge the actions of another person.
That is what you wrote A Team.
I don’t believe that you, or anyone else, believed that what you meant here,
Is that someone was going to be guilty of forcing Vigilant to live by their morality, that someone was going to force him to shut down his website.
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
No, you wrote that the very act of applying your own moral belief to Vigilant, the act of morally judging Vigilant, is an act that carries guilt, it is a wrong act.
Your statement contradicts the command of Jesus:
Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgement — Jesus.
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My statement is clear. You interpretation is not. I’ve explained it clearly again, so you persisting on imposing your view on me is clearly nothing more than your need to try and deceive others. It’s not cool, but it is what it is. I don’t believe on imposing my will on others, that’s just another way we differ.
I do understand why you need to persist with this game though. It has to do with trying to anger your “opponent”, nothing to do with honesty and desire to “debate”, but just you trying to win with any means possible.
So be it.
For anyone who is really truly paying attention, your deviation on my words is nothing more than desperation, because I don’t agree that one should impose their will on anyone else. You may, but again so be it.
I can believe that it is wrong to try and profit on dispensation of truth, and still not have the need to impose my will on Vigilant Citizen.
That doesn’t make me morally relative.
That’s another example of an inductive reasoning fallacy, and straw man argument on your part. “Slandering” (lol), me again by claiming such shows incessant need to lie about others.
Jesus doesn’t like it when you do that. Jesus is not happy that you’re trying to deceive.
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If you are getting angry because I point out a logical contradiction in your views about moral relativity and the application of one’s moral beliefs to other individuals, that is your choice.
I think that our difference in opinion here speaks volumes, which is why I brought it up. It is basis for why you attack me for condemning other beliefs, it is why you perceive what I do to be wrong.
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
“Putting your values on someone else” would mean “imposing your will on others” only if you actually forced a person to comply with your will.
Again, in the context that you gave, that would mean that if you perceive that Vigilant is profiting monetarily from spreading the truth, and you believe that activity is morally wrong, you would only be “imposing your will” on Vigilant if you somehow forced him to stop profiting monetarily from spreading the truth. The only way I can imagine that could be accomplished would be to force him to take down the site, or to take all ads off the site and offer his book for free.
Simply making the statement, “I believe Vigilant is wrong for profiting monetarily from the truth”, and giving your reasons why you believe that, even if you were to say that directly to Vigilant, does not qualify as “imposing your will” on Vigilant, or anyone else.
If you were to go on VC and create a thread where you claim that you think Vigilant is wrong for profiting out spreading the truth, you might anger Vigilant.
You seem to believe that it is wrong to apply your moral views to others, or at least, you think it is wrong to publicly state your application of your moral views to others, to publicly state your moral judgement of others, or your moral judgement of the actions or belief systems of others.
That is a common belief, we commonly hear people quote from the Bible “Judge not lest you be judged”, and we hear people use that as rationale to ward off anyone from criticizing them for anything. These people might be doing the most despicable things, and any attempt to apply your perception of morality to them to tell them that they are wrong and they should stop doing what they are doing will cause them to become angry.
Of course, the Bible passage in its entirety doesn’t say to never judge, it says that we should not be hypocrites when we judge.
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck out of your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye” — Jesus
The party line from the “Do What Thou Wilt” moral relativist crowd is that we choose our own morality, and we should never ever dare to apply our morality to anyone else. The only sin for a Satanist is to dare say that morality is not relative, that there is a concrete morality that applies to everyone.
But, every single person who has ever used that rationale is a silly hypocrite, because every single person applies their morality to others.
You A Team, have applied your perception of morality to me, you have judged me as a coward, a fool, and a hateful person who will not go to heaven.
You “put your values” on me, which is not the same at all as “forcing your will on me”.
I apply my values, which are Biblical values, to other people and to their many belief systems and philosophies, I judge people and I judge religions, and when I publicly state that judgement people often get angry.
Here is why:
“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.” — Jesus
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I don’t get the contradiction.
In fact, you both seem to be agreeing with each other.
A Team said WE SHOULD be able to apply our morals (Biblical ones for Chain) to others since they’re not relative but objective
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He said that we SHOULD NOT apply our morals to others because that action carries guilt.
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
That is the same thing that the moral relativists say. “You have your morality, I have my morality, don’t you dare apply your morality to me. Don’t you dare judge me.”
If it is unrighteous to profit from spreading the truth, then it is righteous to say to the person profiting from spreading the truth that what he is doing is unrighteous.
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Quote:
If I force you to accept my values, then I am taking away your free will.
Keyword being force
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Truth seer there is no contradiction. Chainmaker is trying to sway the conversation away from the fact that he
– imagines meanings not spoken and is called out on it ie; “stealing a car” from him going to jail for “Grand Theft”
– uses the Bible to spread hate and is called out on it {multiple examples]
– makes inductive reasoning fallacies for most of his arguments and is called out on it
– creates straw men for his “opponents”, which is the case here.
– projection bias {if you’re angry at me for making up a fake argument for you, that is your choice} LOL, as if anyone reading would fall for that. That’s an arrogant assumption on Chainmakers part, he is supposing that everyone reading is an idiot or something.
Just take a look at this statement:
“Putting your values on someone else” would mean “imposing your will on others” only if you actually forced a person to comply with your will.”
So basically Chainmaker agrees that I cannot force VC to do my will, and therefore my assertion that I believe one should not profit from dispensation of truth is hardly relative is it now?
Chain you failed. Try again.
Chainmaker 6 days ago,
“I’m done responding to you A Team”
😉
Now instead of responding he’s graduated to “talking” for me. LOL, you are not in control of your emotions Chain. They are in control of you, and like a good programmed virus, they want to spread. That’s why you try to anger others. You’re trying to spread your anger.
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PS, Truthseer. It’s easy to see where Chainmaker is trying to go with this.
– He applies a new, completely unfounded definition to a simple statement I made where I state clearly that I do not believe that someone should profit for truth
– in order to create a straw man
– so he can call me a moral relativist
– so he can link it to Luciferian doctrine
– so he can call me a Satanist
TS, Chainmaker is beginning to have another melt down.
That is what happens to those who have deceived themselves. Once deceived at the level of unconscious processing, the self deceived individual seeks to deceive others.
Self-Deception:
“Humans deceive themselves in order to better deceive others”
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” Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.
Self-deception calls into question the nature of the individual, specifically in a psychological context and the nature of “self”. Irrationality is the foundation upon which the argued paradoxes of self-deception stem, and it is argued that not everyone has the “special talents” and capacities for self-deception.[3] However, rationalization is influenced by a myriad of factors, including socialization, personal biases, fear, and cognitive repression. Such rationalization can be manipulated in both positive and negative fashions; convincing one to perceive a negative situation optimistically and vice versa. In contrast, rationalization alone cannot effectively clarify the dynamics of self-deception, as reason is just one adaptive form mental processes can take.” – “Self-Deceptive and the Nature of Mind” by Mark Johnston
“Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument.”
_________________
For example, Chainmaker says it’s ok to call other people names (Satanists) if they fit the description (from other self proclaimed Satanists), but when the reverse methodology is applied from a more credible source, ie; his arguments being imaginary and a result of an inductive reasoning fallacy, he cries persecution (paranoia), and when that is further pointed out he says he’s being “slandered”, when it is pointed out that Slander is spoken form of defamation and defamation can only be true if it hurts someone’s reputation, which is impossible of anonymous folk, he rationalizes away the relevance of all of it by stating that this is not a court room so true meanings of words have no relevance.
it’s text book slippery slope fallacy which is dependent on the same sort of faulty reasoning process which relies heavily on imagination and not facts.
This is how you expose the deluded. Keep presenting facts based on reality to them. Eventually they lose track of all their loose associations and have to invent new twists on your arguments to persevere. Chain’s inability to withdraw, even though saying he would a half dozen times now is an indication that he is unable to control his anger.
As above the abbreviated list of the irrational conspiracy theorist
– loose associations
– inability to withdraw
– inventing arguments for others
– basing all of their arguments on inductive fallacies
– avoiding direct answers to questions
– negative evidence as irrelevant and silly
– claim persecution (you are attacking me)
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*negates evidence, not negative evidence
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Just take a look at this statement:
“Putting your values on someone else” would mean “imposing your will on others” only if you actually forced a person to comply with your will.”
So basically Chainmaker agrees that I cannot force VC to do my will, and therefore my assertion that I believe one should not profit from dispensation of truth is hardly relative is it now?
Chain you failed. Try again.
Chainmaker 6 days ago,
“I’m done responding to you A Team”
————————————————————————————————
I took issue with your statement that the APPLICATION of of your assertion that one should not profit from spreading truth is an action that carries guilt.
That is common rationale of the moral relativist, that applying one’s morality to others is wrong.
Either A Team is a moral relativist, or he is confused.
I would say he is probably just confused.
I will continue to respond to you A Team, I now have the time and the desire.
It’s not out of anger, it’s out of love and… boredom. 🙂
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Just take a look at this statement:
“Putting your values on someone else” would mean “imposing your will on others” only if you actually forced a person to comply with your will.”
So basically Chainmaker agrees that I cannot force VC to do my will, and therefore my assertion that I believe one should not profit from dispensation of truth is hardly relative is it now?
Chain you failed. Try again.
A-Team,
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else. Maybe VC is only interested in spreading their truth in so far as it can fill their wallets?”
Chainmaker,
“I took issue with your statement that the APPLICATION of of your assertion that one should not profit from spreading truth is an action that carries guilt.”
You’re just responding to your imagination again lol. And it’s obvious you’re trying to deceive again because you’re ignoring my question.
If you agree we can’t and shouldn’t bend others to our will, how can I be a moral relativist by saying that I cannot force VC to do as I see proper?
You just said you agree that VC is only concerned with money. So if we apply your reasoning here, you’re saying you are a moral relativist? LOL…silly reasoning is silly.
Chainmaker 6 days ago,
“I’m done responding to you A Team”
“I will continue to respond to you A Team, I now have the time and the desire.”
You certainly have the desire, I ensured that. 😀
It’s because “what goes around comes around”. You spread anger, so your internal anger can be utilized here for the greater good, and your participation is going to make a huge impact on others reading.
I’m not so much concerned whether you get it or not. I think you may be beyond repair, at least in so far as I am able to help repair you anyway.
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“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
You made no mention of forcing Vigilant to do anything.
I made mention of that.
You said that the action of applying your morality to Vigilant, the action of judging Vigilant by your own perception of morality, is an action that carries guilt.
According to this statement, it is wrong to judge others by your own perception of morality.
While that does not necessarily mean that you believe that morality is fully relative, it does mean that you disagree with Jesus, who commands us to apply our perception of morality to others:
Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgement — Jesus.
It means that you agree with the moral relativists that no one should judge another.
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Chainmaker,
“Putting your values on someone else” would mean “imposing your will on others” only if you actually forced a person to comply with your will.”
So basically Chainmaker agrees that I cannot force VC to do my will, and therefore my assertion that I believe one should not profit from dispensation of truth is hardly relative is it now?
Let’s observe how Chainmaker twists what someone has said to imagine a new meaning, for the purposes of “defaming” their character, while crying that he himself is being defamed:
“It means that you agree with the moral relativists that no one should judge another.”
yet he ignores that I basically did judge one by stating that
“I do not believe one should profit from the dispensation of truth!”
You can keep trying to twist that anyway you want, but let’s not forget you’re just trying to get back at me for pointing out the paradox in your thinking whereby you claim to be a practitioner of absolute morality, while at the same time expressing that a “fact” (which is supposed to be reproducible, ie; ABSOLUTE) for one person, may not be a “fact” for another (a moral relativists point of view), only because you have imagined “facts” and not real reproducible facts.
The paradox in your thinking is clear.
“It means that you agree with moral relativists Chainmaker”
lol easy.
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a closer look at the phenomena of
– paradoxical logic
– paranoia
– delusions of grandeur
– inductive reasoning
– hypocrisy
– hatred and it’s remedy: forgiveness
Chainmaker,
“She does not believe the Qur’an, she cherry picks what she wants.”
LOL
Cherry Picking you say?
You mean like Cherry picking that Jesus was only Confrontational and Angry to justify your anger and confrontational behavior while ignoring the all these other things Jesus did
“yes, clearly Christ was intolerant and confrontational.
you can see that when he healed the demon posessed man
and the lady w/ the blood issue
and the leoper
and the blind jewish guy
and the jewish pharasees daughter
and the other demon possesed
and he forgave the thug on the cross beside him
and he fed the thousands of haters that were listening to him preach on the mount
and when he befriended the hated tax collector
and when he made the known christian torturer the first missionary
and dont’ forget how he was all things to all men….. even JEWS!!!
and he sacrificed hsi perfect self for the whole sinful world.
you’re right!
Christ brought all those people to his bosom out of intollerance and confrontation.”
coutesy of Pollyann from the infamous thread of Chainmakers VC meltdown. The curious observer will note that nearing the end of the thread just prior being shown the exit, Chainmaker was in full mode displaying two very obvious characteristics of the conspiracy theorist before totally imploding:
– Perseveration
– Repeating the same stock phrases over and over
oh and he ignored FP’s question 5x, and never answered it before he got his permanent ban.
Chain has a habit of reading what he wants to read, not only from scripture but also from other people’s words and statements. We’ve seen that already numerous times here.
Here is the thread that he fell apart in on VC,
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&start=10
thankfully he cannot be banned here so we will have plenty of evidence of what believing in a hyper active imagination can do to ones world view.
Pollyann (a Christian who Chain called a Zionist)
“show of hands —-
anyone see Christ’s unconditional love for you in chains posts?
anyone see forgiveness?
anyone see anything remotely appealing that wants you to be Christ like?
just curious.”
Chainmaker responds,
“who wants to be like polly and be a racist Jewish supremacist?
Not me.
Intolerant and confrontational.
Christlike.
No compromise.”
Chainmaker,
“I bring the light that tells people they are condemned, and tells them how to be saved.
The world hates it.”
{lol at Chain thinking the world revolves around him and hates what he has to say. Repeat after me; delusions of grandeur}
Dull Flame
“… Woah. Did you just call yourself Christ-like?
We have our answers, ladies and gentlemen.
Chain, get help. Seriously. You’re showing signs of some pretty serious mental problems.
Oh, and here’s a clue… “Intolerant” and “confrontational” aren’t things you should aspire to, especially when trying to bring people over to God.”
Chain’s response,
“You say that because you hate God.”
lol, can you guys read between the line? Yet another person expresses discontent with Chainmaker and how he communicates, and he says that this person hates God. He’s attributing himself to God status. This is all unconscious btw, just like his projection bias, delusion of grandeur and paranoia. That means he is not fully and consciously aware of the internal process that makes him see external words, circumstances and the like without immediately personifying them and believing them all to be about him.
Someone else notices that Chainmaker is playing games, veiled as a Christian,
“You are as Recure stated: A kinder surprise Christian.”
Chainmaker said,
“You obviously have no clue what Recure meant by that. Recure was attacking the basic, literal doctrine of eternal life being the reward for Christians, he was attacking Christianity at its core, and this had nothing to do with scholars.”
Recure wrote:
“Umm, no. It’s your clueless self that doesn’t know what I meant by it. I was not attacking the doctrine, rather qualifying the fact that if it were not for this doctrine, you would not be a batshit insane fundamentalist. You implicated yourself.”
DragonFang,
“Lol Chain, The way you gamble your membership just to insult people is funny.”
Anasi says to Chain:
“How can you regard changing your approach from hate speech to conducting yourself in a respectful manner censorship? No one is telling you to censor anything. You speak to people as if they are below you on the food chain – like you’re this divine messiah descending from heaven to release the wrath of god upon every non-christian. Go outside and look around. People don’t talk to each other like they’re shit, regardless of what individual beliefs and faiths they hold. The same applies to a forum where the same conversations are taking place. But like you said: you can say what you want without getting socked in the face… lol.”
Hardly anyone agrees with the way you express yourself Chain, but in your world view they’re all crazy and you’re the only one who is not, which is almost by definition, crazy. You convince yourself that the reason they dislike the way you communicate is because you talk truth, ignoring that in many instances it’s not always what you say but how you say it.
Here is more of what Anasi says, she says it so well and so clear, I’ll let her words do more of the talking here
“The way you speak to people says a lot about your character and your morals. What you do is judge every single person based off the way you interpret the bible, insult their religion, character, and utilize deceptive techniques for the simple intention of winning an argument/debate. You are a liar, a hypocrite, and you clearly have some pride issues. Why do I say this? Most of your posts don’t even consist of spreading the actual core doctrine of Christianity; the eternal love of Jesus Christ. You use fear, lies, and baiting to exploit weaknesses in people and invoke negative energy for your own gain – not of “God”. Do you do this to elevate your own pride and ego? I can only make that assumption based off what you post. You seem like the only gnostic, Luciferian, Satanic person on this board.
Your only justification for your actions is Jesus did name-calling too. Guess what? You are not Jesus. You aren’t on his level”
One of Chain’s retorts:
“Jesus came to bring a sword, and Paul said exactly what the Sword of the Spirit is, and I use it.
I am extremely violent with it, I am a soldier of God.”
Aside from admitting he is violent and hate filled, we’re supposed to believe that is not a delusion of grandeur? Ha, funny.
Just Jess says,
“Chain – i pray for u tbh. It saddens me to see someone soo clearly misguided in their conviction that they are doing Gods work. I fear u will not find the eternal reward u believe u have earned, u are a clear example of a christian who does NOT posess the holy spirit, u exhibit this through ur actions here daily. You are not god. You are not jesus. You need to stop acting like u are. ”
she later also says,
“There are many different ways to spread Jesus’s message, like ive said numerous times i do not find your way to b effective and i feel it turns away more ppl than it attracts, in fact it violently repels some ppl.”
dull flame,
“Chain pretty much calls anyone who doesn’t subscribe to his particular branch of Christianity a Gnostic Satanist, or Satanic, or whatever. And it’s not just in the Religions forum, it’s EVERYWHERE.
I was raised to believe that… Get this… Human beings don’t have the power or the authority to condemn others to Hell. And he’s been doing that left and right in this thread. It’s deeply offensive, and while I realize I don’t *have* to be here, it bothers me that he’s attacking other posters like that (and that is what he’s doing, don’t lie to yourself).”
Chainmaker says “Cherry-picking is lame.”
But that is all he does. He Cherry Picks the few verses of anger Jesus expressed at Pharisees, 10% of Jesus behavior because it’s the only part of Jesus that Chain, the self proclaimed “Jesus Mimic” can identify with. His brain deletes the rest of the message because he cannot identify with it as he has no means of connecting with it internally. That is why he misses it, and “cherry picks” himself. He perceives others to cherry pick because of his [projection bias; see above]
The majority of people disagree with how you do things Chain, but so long as you’re getting the attention you crave, it’s all good. It must really have bothered you that “Toby” was getting all the attention here, wasn’t it?
But I guess they (your VC critics, the ones you love to provoke) were all just “Toby” targeting you for “removal from the VC site {paranoia}, right?
Jesus said you cannot get into heaven with hate in your heart. Chainmaker, you ain’t going to heaven bro, you have too much hate in your heart.
[John 13:34-35] – A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
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I came here after seeing this blog linked recently on VC. I did not know what to expect, I did not even know that Daciple had posted here until I started reading. Daciple told me months ago that Toby was sending him more emails and impersonating him on different websites, and I did make a comment similar to what he reported, that I didn’t care about all that drama I was on vacation. I forgot all about it until I clicked the link from VC.
Then I scanned the long page and got a summary of what was going on here, and read Femalepharoe’s posts about me and decided to respond to the slander.
Toby is Toby, he will do what Toby does, I just like to spread the truth and wage war on the lies. I didn’t come here because of Toby, and I didn’t post here because of Toby, really, I first posted here because of Femalepharoe.
I stand by everything I said in the Hexa = David Icke = Satanist witch thread, and every other post I ever made on VC.
I do not expect the majority of people to agree with what the Bible says, and I do not expect the majority of people to agree with what I say when I preach what the Bible clearly, literally says. I have never had majority opinion on my side and I never will. Of course, the Old Testament prophets rarely had majority opinion on their side, and Jesus and the early Christians certainly didn’t have majority opinion on their side.
The people voted to crucify Jesus.
The opinions of people against me, including many who call themselves Christians but do not practice, who do not truly believe the Bible or apply it to their lives, and many who call themselves Christians but have consistently opposed me and other Christians when we condemn evil belief systems including Zionism Christianity and Gnostic Satanism, are not opinions that hold much water with me.
I do not hate these people, but I hate their false belief systems.
If I met Pollyann, recure, Dull Flame, female pharoe, truthseer, Hexa, or anyone else in real life and saw that they needed some help, I would give whatever help I could to them.
Jesus showed compassion to people, he healed the sick and fed the poor, but he did not ever show any tenderness toward false doctrine. He did miracles for people and then said that he did the miracle because they had faith that he was the Messiah, faith in the truth.
I claim to be full of hate. Yes, I am full of hate, but I am also full of love. I hate the Darkness, and I love the Light. You cannot love without hating. If you do not hate the idea of your child being molested, then you do not love your child.
I am a Soldier of God, and I have violently waged war using the Sword of the Spirit. I will not show compassion toward evil belief systems, and I will not apologize for speaking strongly against evil belief systems.
I do not claim to be Jesus, I claim to believe and preach Jesus’ message which is that there is One Way to be saved which is through belief in his sacrifice on the cross, and every other belief system is a lie of Satan. That is God’s truth.
Those who hate that message, those who hate that anyone preaches that intolerant message, do hate God. Most of the world hates God. The Scripture clearly states that. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation, and few find it, but wide is the path to destruction where the majority go.
Now A Team, you will attack me with the majority who say I am false because I hate and condemn the evil belief systems that reject salvation through the blood of Christ and promote immorality, but then what have you done?
You have condemned me, saying that I will not go to heaven, because you have judged that I have hate in my heart and according to you the Bible says that I cannot go to heaven.
No one will scream and whine at your condemnation of me, because the majority wishes to see me condemned, because I speak the Biblical truth that they are condemned without faith in the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah.
Jesus said that the second most important commandment is to love your brother, and so if your brother is following one of the Many Lies of the Wide Path to destruction, in order to show love to your brother you must tell him the One Truth. Telling him the One Truth means explaining to him that what he is currently following is a Lie from Satan, and most of the time he will not be happy to hear that. He will say that you are horribly hateful and judgmental and condemning because you told him the truth about the immorality of the Lie he is following, because you expressed hatred toward that Lie.
“He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” — Jesus
“Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them.” — Paul
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Daciple said he told you all about this blog and you said it was nonsense and you weren’t interested. Nice try though 😉
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“The opinions of people against me, including many who call themselves Christians but do not practice, who do not truly believe the Bible or apply it to their lives, and many who call themselves Christians but have consistently opposed me and other Christians when we condemn evil belief systems including Zionism Christianity and Gnostic Satanism, are not opinions that hold much water with me
If I met Pollyann, recure, Dull Flame, female pharoe, truthseer, Hexa, or anyone else in real life and saw that they needed some help, I would give whatever help I could to them.”
Essentially because they oppose your manner of speaking, they are worthy of being called Satanists and Apostates. Therefore anyone who doesn’t agree with you is against you. I remember George W using that tactic to convince people of weapons of mass destruction. He deceived many.
“Jesus showed compassion to people, he healed the sick and fed the poor, but he did not ever show any tenderness toward false doctrine.”
Therefore claiming Jesus was just intolerance and angry, when someone points out you speak from anger is not the whole picture and does not justify your behaviors. Furthermore, because Jesus was that way against leaders and not regular folk, provoking others to anger by “pissing on their sacred cows” is not the best way to bring people to truth.
You disagree?
Because if you think provoking people to anger first, then telling them truth is going to make them receptive to you and ignore all the times when the opposite has occured….perseveration, and therefore the only logical conclusion is that indeed you’re only in it to spread anger in people.
Jesus doesn’t like that.
“I claim to be full of hate. Yes, I am full of hate, but I am also full of love.”
If you’re full of hate, you cannot be full of love. If you’re hateful, even of your enemies as Jesus commanded you to not be, then you miss the major point of his message and only focus on a small limited and “cherry picked” portion, all in all as I have explained, to justify the hatred in your heart.
Claiming to be full of hate and full of love, is being double minded. Scriptures are clear as to what one needs to do to the double minded man. Scriptures say a double minded man is not to be trusted as they are unstable in all they do. Just saying.
Hate = Anger. The Bible is clear about anger too.
James 1:19-20
” 19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.”
So you miss that Jesus says to do unto others what you would have them do unto you. So, you incite anger in others. You attempt to provoke and deceive them by inventing new meanings for relatively simple to understand statements, and in doing so you justify calling them names.
For all those reasons, the logical conclusion is that you’re not in this “game” of “truth” for the right reason. You are hiding behind the Bible to spread hate.
Jesus said that when he comes, he will tell people like you that he never knew you.
I’m just the messenger. I’m showing you all the relative scriptures that you ignore, as you chose to cherry pick those pieces of scripture that you can twist to justify being mean to others.
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Essentially because they oppose your manner of speaking, they are worthy of being called Satanists and Apostates. Therefore anyone who doesn’t agree with you is against you. I remember George W using that tactic to convince people of weapons of mass destruction. He deceived many.
————————————————————————————————II called people Satanists who held Satanist beliefs, I called people apostate who held unBiblical apostate beliefs. Anyone who does not agree with Jesus is against Jesus.
“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.” — Jesus, Matthew 12:30
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Therefore claiming Jesus was just intolerance and angry, when someone points out you speak from anger is not the whole picture and does not justify your behaviors. Furthermore, because Jesus was that way against leaders and not regular folk, provoking others to anger by “pissing on their sacred cows” is not the best way to bring people to truth.
————————————————————————————————
I never claimed that Jesus was only angry. Jesus was ALWAYS intolerant of false doctrine, evil lies of Satan. Jesus spoke against false doctrine to leaders and common folk.
Furthermore, when I enter a debate in a Religion forum and proceed to defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I have taken the position of a spiritual leader and teacher. The person who attempts to prove the Gospel of Jesus Christ wrong, and offers a different belief system as being correct, or preaches some form of “anything goes you should never judge anyone else’s belief system moral relativity” has himself taken the position of a spiritual leader and teacher.
The person acting as a spiritual leader who is teaching an evil false doctrine is the kind of person who Jesus strongly rebuked.
————————————————————————————————-You disagree?
Because if you think provoking people to anger first, then telling them truth is going to make them receptive to you and ignore all the times when the opposite has occured….perseveration, and therefore the only logical conclusion is that indeed you’re only in it to spread anger in people. Jesus doesn’t like that.
———————————————————————————————
Causing anger is an unavoidable side effect of speaking the truth, because most people hate the light.
“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.” — Jesus, John 3:19,20
“All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.” — Jesus, Matt 10:22
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.” — Jesus, John 15:18
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If you’re full of hate, you cannot be full of love. If you’re hateful, even of your enemies as Jesus commanded you to not be, then you miss the major point of his message and only focus on a small limited and “cherry picked” portion, all in all as I have explained, to justify the hatred in your heart.
Claiming to be full of hate and full of love, is being double minded. Scriptures are clear as to what one needs to do to the double minded man. Scriptures say a double minded man is not to be trusted as they are unstable in all they do. Just saying.
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Wrong. We are commanded to hate.
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked. — Psalm 97:10
“To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.” — Proverbs 8:14
I do not hate my enemies, I love my enemies. I hate the false doctrine of the Enemy, I hate that it leads people away from God to destruction. I express my hatred of the false doctrine and I explain why I hate it.
I hate evil behavior like child molestation, and I hate the false doctrine spread by the child-molesting warlord Mohammed, and I hate the modern behavior of Muslim child molestation done in emulation of Mohammed. I do not hate the Muslims, I want them to repent and be saved.
When I express my righteous hatred of Mohammed’s actions, and my righteous hatred of the false doctrine that he preached called Islam, when I say that Islam is a lie of Satan and those who follow it are condemned to hell, and that the Only Way to salvation is through the atonement of Jesus’ blood on the cross,
then I get anger and hate from Muslims, and lots of non-Muslims too.
That is because causing anger is an unavoidable side effect of speaking the truth, because most people hate the light.
“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.” — Jesus, John 3:19,20
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The “A” Team “Daciple said he told you all about this blog and you said it was nonsense and you weren’t interested. Nice try though 😉 ”
Daciple told me that Toby was creating a blog impersonating him. There is a link to that fake blog early on this page. I did not know what blog that was, nor did I care when I was on vacation visiting family and friends.
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Here’s how you justify calling people Satanists, of which your liberal definition includes practitioners of all religions, even Christians who don’t immediately succumb to your interpretation of scriptures, often in isolation of full contextual meaning.
You do it by basing your definition on the frauds Alice Baily and Helena Blavatsky, correct? Did you know that the fraud Blavatsky thought that the NWO would come at the end of the 19th century. She failed.
You then take the words of “self proclaimed Satanists” and their definitions, snip the parts that you believe apply to others, to justify calling them names.
The point about all of this which you will continue to fail to understand is that you’re debating people who truly believe they are doing no harm. You need to change up your approach because you put them on the defensive.
Read that again, you put them on the defensive and on the defensive you cause them to go on the offensive. You are not going to reach them that way.
In the same manner that you’ve perceived me “attacking” you, you attack them.
So if you feel attacked, and then go on the offensive with me, lying and putting words in my mouth, how can you expect that attacking them is going to do anything different?
Do try to stay on topic and not sway. Try answering the question with a direct answer for once, because this tactic you have of avoiding the question by putting words in others mouths is sort of old.
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Here’s how you justify calling people Satanists, of which your liberal definition includes practitioners of all religions, even Christians who don’t immediately succumb to your interpretation of scriptures, often in isolation of full contextual meaning.
You do it by basing your definition on the frauds Alice Baily and Helena Blavatsky, correct? Did you know that the fraud Blavatsky thought that the NWO would come at the end of the 19th century. She failed.
You then take the words of “self proclaimed Satanists” and their definitions, snip the parts that you believe apply to others, to justify calling them names.
————————————————————————————————
You are claiming Christianity, and you have accused me of intentionally leading people away from Christ while posing as a Christian. By the liberal definition you called me a Satanist, but the idea of putting all the time I have into doing what I do, if my intent were truly to lead people from Christianity, would really necessitate a virulent anti-Christian or Satanic motive.
I rarely if ever used the liberal definition on VC. I applied the word to people preaching moral relativism AKA Do What Thou Wilt a la Aleister Crowley the self-proclaimed anti-Christ Beast 666, and I applied the word to people preaching fake apostate Gnostic doctrine which IS NOT CHRISTIAN.
There is a reason why the Gnostic gospels are not in our Biblical canon, that is because they ARE NOT CHRISTIAN. They teach doctrine that is the absolute opposite of what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John teaches. They teach self-enlightenment, self-salvation, everybody can perfect themselves to become like Christ.
Blavatsky and Bailey are two people who had a lot of influence. Bailey preached a totally fake imposter Jesus who is basically the same as the Gnostic idea of Jesus, she taught that Jesus is an enlightened ascended master among many others, and we can all become enlightened too.
Blavatsky and Bailey are just two widely known names out of a gazillion false prophet/false teacher gurus including one A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,(if you are reading Chaukadeer).
Blavatsky and Bailey are simply some of the earlier individuals who sought to bring pagan self-enlightenment teachings common in the East, back into the West.
Of course they made false prophecies, they were false prophets.
That doesn’t make their doctrine any less evil, or any less Gnostic, or any less Satanic.
I will continue to call spades spades.
I am not sorry that offends you, or offends anyone else.
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Read that again, you put them on the defensive and on the defensive you cause them to go on the offensive. You are not going to reach them that way.
In the same manner that you’ve perceived me “attacking” you, you attack them.
So if you feel attacked, and then go on the offensive with me, lying and putting words in my mouth, how can you expect that attacking them is going to do anything different?
Do try to stay on topic and not sway. Try answering the question with a direct answer for once, because this tactic you have of avoiding the question by putting words in others mouths is sort of old.
———————————————————————————————
You have attacked me, you have attacked my beliefs and my methods, and called me some mean names like coward and fool, and you have slandered/libeled/defamed me by calling me a racist and an anti-Christian imposter.
I don’t believe that I put any words in your mouth, but I did sarcastically summarize your arguments in a post, in such a way that no one would actually believe that those were your words.
I know that I attack people’s belief systems. I know that they often take it personally. I know that people get offended by the truth I speak about the falsehoods they believe. I know that I sometimes directly attack individuals, calling them hypocrites and fake/apostate Christians or Muslims, and I always explain exactly why I am applying the label.
I know that this puts people on the defensive.
That’s what a debate is, you defend you beliefs and you attack the opposing beliefs. The people spectating the debate are watching a battle between Truth and Lie.
I am going to put the Lie on the defense and then I am going to crush the Lie with the hilt of the Sword of the Spirit, and then I am going to slice the Lie right down the middle.
The majority of people are going to hate me for it.
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We’ve been down this road before. Above you show some signs that you’re starting to get it.
People don’t hate you for expression your view of absolute truth. They dislike it when you attack them.
You perceive that you are being attacked out of Projection Bias. Do some research. That is why you perceive you are being attacked, because you often attack others.
Attacking others is not going to get them to sway to your side of the fence. It’s going to get them on the offensive.
You see, you felt attacked and went on the offensive lying that I called you a Satanist after employing the slippery slope inductive reasoning fallacy (look it up as well).
I said that your actions drive people away from Christianity. I said that if you were/are not consciously aware of it then I believed you were doing it intentionally. Maybe you are totally unaware of it. If so, then you need help uncovering your unconscious motives for doing what you do the way you do it.
Read, the way you do it,not what you do, but the manner of.
As for Blavatsky and Bailey. The majority of people wouldn’t know anything about them if it were not for the internet. I don’t deny that there is a huge amount of moral relativism being heaped on the masses today and even though you have shoddily claimed I am a moral relativist, which I forgive you for, I don’t agree with moral relativism by and large.
I do agree that I should not impose my value on someone else so long as they give me the same courtesy. As soon as anyone tries to impose anything on me, then I will respond in kind. Until then, VC or anyone else can do whatever they like with their dispensation of truth, or what have you, so long as it doesn’t infringe on the freedom of myself and others. That’s not moral relativism, it’s them enacting their right to free will. I cannot change their will, or force them to drink. I can only lead them to the water that I believe is of true life.
Back to Blavatsky, she’s a fraud and a fake. She openly said that the NWO was to be here before the year 1900.
You cannot base your definition of Satanism on her writings. The Bible does not adequately define Satanism or Luciferian doctrine. It is extrapolated by accepting what is true of the four gospels, and then evaluating other texts based on the four gospels as the basis for true doctrine.
Fine, I’m not arguing your right to do that.
I’m saying that you attacking others with those labels will close them to your message.
You are ineffective by starting off “truth” by attacking others, and if you persist in doing so even after being told by numerous people over and over again you are either stupid beyond all recognition or doing it purposely, or completely oblivious to your true motives.
Because you commit Projection Bias quite regularly, I think it might be #3, but I am not ruling out the other two causes because they are also Probable until one is Provable.
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People do hate me for my expression of absolute truth, because the absolute truth I preach is that every belief system other than that YHWH is the Most High God, and Jesus is the Son of God whose blood atones for sin and is the Only Way to salvation, and everyone who rejects that truth is condemned to hell.
That includes Gnostics, Buddhists, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, Wiccans and on and on and on.
That is very often perceived as an attack by non-Christians, and when I move from not only proclaiming that they are currently condemned, to actively attacking the immorality of their belief systems, and the immorality of the founders of their belief systems then that is also perceived as an attack.
Guess what? It is an attack. The Gospel Truth is an attack on Lies of Satan.
A Team, do you really think you have not attacked me?
Do you really believe that? If so, you are truly delusional.
I have definitely attacked you.
I am not projecting anything, I am acknowledging reality. We attack and we defend in these debates. I can understand your idea of waiting to aggressively attack until after having already being struck by an aggressive attack, but I don’t think that is always the best war plan.
You might believe that you can win people to Christ by refusing to tell them that their current beliefs are immoral lies from Satan, so as to not offend them, but I disagree.
I believe the commandment to spread the Gospel is a commandment to spread the One Truth, and a major part of spreading the truth is attacking the lies.
Gnosticism is Satanism. Gnosticism is Satanism completely apart from Blavatsky. People who are sucked into Gnostic lies that will send them to hell need to hear that Gnosticism is Satanism. Most of them will be offended. A few might wake up. The spectators of any debate about it might wake up. The true path is narrow, few find it.
Islam is a horribly evil religion. Fundamental Islam condones violence and discrimination, the taking of sex slaves, and child molestation, among many other travesties. Mohammed was a child-molesting, adulterous, slave-girl raping thieving looting warlord. People who are sucked into Islamic lies need to hear that Islam is of Satan. Most will be offended. A few might wake up. The spectators of any debate about it might wake up. The true path is narrow, few find it.
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You only believe people “hate” you for speaking the truth, but they don’t “hate” you, it’s your style. You can choose to continue believing it’s the message so you can continue justifying your style, but that only shows that you want to anger and provoke people as a priority, and Jesus had some stern words for people like that.
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Chainmaker,
“I have definitely attacked you.”
Yes, I know, but so what? It’s what you do, then you cry when you perceive being attacked. That’s Projection Bias. It’s good that you can admit this. It’s the first step.
And just because I don’t “spread truth” by inciting anger in others, doesn’t mean I don’t spread truth. That’s denying the antecedent. It’s another logical fallacy.
It stipulates that the consequent is an indicated condition that is fale because the antecedent is false. Basically if A, then B; not A, therefore not B.
Your example implies that I am not telling people truth because I don’t provoke anger in them, that provoking anger is the only way to bring truth.
You have to convince yourself of this because you enjoy provoking truth, and are not skilled enough to find a better way.
You also demonstrated that you come to conclusions based on linking together separate pieces of information, most of which are not related and then making hasty generalizations. Some of the information you fabricate yourself from imagination. Your friends do the same, so through consensus you guys can put forward the illusion that because many people might believe it, real facts and real evidence are not necessary. That’s like a microcosm of the news.
Denying the antecedent if A, then B; not A, therefore not B.[6]
1) If I provoke anger in others then I am spreading the truth
2) If I do not, then I am not telling them the truth
Failed logic.
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You still won’t admit to having attacked me, which is ludricrous and shows that you are delusional and deceptive.
You will not speak the truth about other relgions for fear of angering people, and that is cowardice.
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Chainmaker,
“You still won’t admit to having attacked me”
I won’t dignify products of your imagination, such as my calling you a Satanist, which never happened once either, ie; you lied.
“which is ludricrous and shows that you are delusional and deceptive.”
lol, when you try to turn someone’s argument back on them with something so flimsy as this, it’s definitely a sign that you’re at the end of your -chain- 😉
“You will not speak the truth about other relgions for fear of angering people, and that is cowardice.”
I often believe I speak the truth, but if I am doing it in a religious context it’s usually face to face and it’s in a respectful manner.
I asked you a question that you are avoiding, once again, have you ever gone up to a devout Muslim and to his face told him point-blank that his prophet is a baby raping murderer?
I doubt it.
Doing it online but being a coward in doing it in real life shows your motives. You do it online because you enjoy provoking others to anger. You don’t do it in real life because you’re definitely afraid of the repercussions.
I have debated Muslims. Neither of us were provoked to anger.
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I agree with Chain on one thing. Please post Part 10 soon
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It does seem like different forms of harassment’s are going on here. As far as Chain & the rest of the crew I feel they told what they knew.
The ” A” Team” made good points but I think things could have been presented in a much better fashion & with different undertones. The info presented can apply to us all not just “Chain Truthseer” we all can take from that !
What you are doing is called “pulling teeth”.
Chain seems believable until he goes to talking about Mohammad & the child molestation ? Then he loses me. Not because I think he’s lying, but the claims in itself does not interest me.
Now please don’t go to calling me a VC shill or anything like that. I’m just giving my opinion.
There is a lot of truth to what “A” has said but it would be better if it was presented in a better fashion. It’s like Toby harassing all over again, and in my opinion he ( whoever, whatever he is) did harass a lot of people.
It’s easy to piece the story together of what happened, but at this point things have taken a different turn !
At the end of the day VC is not what he appears to be
There was an alternate agenda
A few moderators were involved
The Jones accusations
Then this Toby cat
and a few more things.
That in itself was enough for anyone to draw a conclusion. Do we have all of the facts ? No, but there is enough information on this board to paint a clear picture.
Not trying to offend anyone ijs !
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Quote:
“Chain Truthseer”
Please don’t associate me with anyone else. I’ve already been associated with Daciple once.
By the way, that even in itself, makes me wonder. You know, if Toby is a smart guy who stalks the forum looking for revenge on ex-members, why’d he involve and bait me?
No, that explanation in itself shows that Toby is not an ex-member. I was not an important enough member to bait. Neither did I keep on calling others Satanists and say that Islam is the one true Religion like Daciple.
Why then would I, an unimportant person, be involved on that blog?
I believe it was to incite us all that this was done. As FP said, her banning soon after commenting there is suspicious
Another thing to note, for FP here, that one of the VC mods Emailed me after you got banned saying you were banned for insulting VC and calling him disinfo.
I had thought at the time you’d done this on VC but it’s now clear that this game is pretty big
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Before you get bent out of shape I meant ” tweetfirst” sorry but I assumed the typo would be obvious due to the context in which it was wrote ! Again I apologize sorry.
” Another thing to note, for FP……….”
Ah do you mean me ? To my knowledge no one knows who I was on the MB. I haven’t revealed my user name.
BTW I was banned around this time last year, and I said nothing about it up until I posted my first comment here a few weeks ago, and it had nothing to do with calling VC a disinfo anything. Altho I have numerous of times without repercussions.
Care to elaborate ?
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Never mind. I guess you were talking about FP !
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I am not Tweeterfist.
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It was a typo gheesh. I was trying to say Chain & Tweet !
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FP=Female Pharoe
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Lesson 9.5
Deductive vs Inductive reasoning.
Let’s start with the end first.
Basically, deductive reasoning comes to specific conclusions based on generalizations, where as inductive reasoning takes events and links them together to make generalizations.
Fallacies of Inductive Reasoning…
A “Fallacy” is an error in reasoning. This can differ from a factual error which is just being wrong about the facts. Specifically a “fallacy” is when the premise for a conclusion does not have the needed degree of support. Support from something factual and reproducible is the best form of evidence.
An inductive fallacy is much less formal than a deductive fallacy.
An inductive fallacy is less formal than a deductive fallacy. That is, you can make both inductive and deductive fallacies, but the inductive variety have less credibility, almost none.
Inductive fallacies are simply “arguments” that appear to be inductive arguments, however the premises of said arguments are not supported by facts for the conclusion. In these cases, if the premise was proven to be true, the subsequent conclusion would not be any more likely to be true.
Therefore deductive arguments are arguments in which the premises provide complete support for conclusion, and inductive arguments provide little to no support for conclusions.
When premises provide the required degree of support for it’s conclusion, then the argument can be considered a good one. When the opposite is true, it is a very poor argument based with poor or no support.
Simple example of an inductive fallacy
Inductive Fallacy
Premise 1: I just arrived in New York and saw a white bird.
Conclusion: All New York birds are white.
“Hasty generalization is an inductive reasoning fallacy also known as dicto simpliciter (jumping to conclusions). Making sweeping statements or not having sufficient data to validate the conclusion defines hasty generalization.”
“On Tuesday afternoon, November 2, 2004 things were looking very bad for incumbent president George W. Bush in his bid for reelection. The exit polling done by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International suggested that challenger John F Kerry would defeat Bush. However, when the first polls on the East Coast started closing it became apparent that something was wrong. The polling results were so different from reality that Fox News Channel “decided to quit using the exit poll results Tuesday evening, calling them inaccurate and unreliable” (Vlahos, 2004).
What brought about this discrepancy? Logical fallacy was a major contributor. Even though the early polling data came with a disclaimer that this exit data only approximated the actual vote count, many news agencies as well as the blogosphere, decided to run with these preliminary results. The pressure of competitive advantage proved to tempting and opened the door for the fallacy of hasty generalization.”
http://tresero.hubpages.com/hub/3-Logical-Fallacies
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just a few obvious lies
Chainmaker,
“I came here after seeing this blog linked recently on VC. I did not know what to expect, I did not even know that Daciple had posted here until I started reading.”
Daciple
“As for Chain having ANYTHING to do with that BS, bahahaha thats hilarious, I havent looked but I guess they are now impersonating him and making him responsible for stuff that rich. Nah Chain is in Ohio hes been visiting his family and friends, he doesnt have enuff time to get into all that BS, and when I did tell him about THESE THINGS he just brushed them off as nonsense. Pretty much everything you said about him is right on, he only cares about Preaching the Gospel on a large forum where he can reach more people, he could give a crap less about petty nonsense on some other BLOG.”
Chaimaker,
“Provoking anger in people is a side effect of telling the truth.”
No, calling them names and being hateful to them, under the disguise of “sharing truth” is what provokes anger, and you know that, which is why you do it. You do it to stir up strife.
Chainmaker,
“I have taken the position of a spiritual leader and teacher”
Mathew 7:15 – Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
*I know that by making the obvious connection here I run the risk of being called a slanderer…but the truth is sometimes hard to here, isn’t it Chain?*
Proverbs 10:12 – Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all offenses.
John 13:34-35- A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
[you can’t be loving someone if you attack them with vicious name calling]
Proverbs 15:1
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
[vicious name calling stirs up anger in others…you are told not to do this]
Ephesians 4:29 – Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good or building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
[corrupting what someone has said to alter it’s meaning is wrong]
You see you need to build people up first to make them receptive. Attacking them is not going to win them over. Why do you make it hard for yourself to understand this?
I believe you do all of this just to spread hatred. It’s the only reason one would need to “piss on sacred cows of other religions”, it’s for your own ego gratification.
Matthew 6:1-6 – “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven
Chainmaker,
“I claim to be full of hate. Yes, I am full of hate.”
A-Team
“Jesus was that way against leaders and not regular folk, provoking others to anger by “pissing on their sacred cows” is not the best way to bring people to truth.
You disagree?
Because if you think provoking people to anger first, then telling them truth is going to make them receptive to you and ignore all the times when the opposite has occured….perseveration, and therefore the only logical conclusion is that indeed you’re only in it to spread anger in people.
Jesus doesn’t like that.”
Chainmaker says,
“Wrong. We are commanded to hate.”
Cherry picking?
John 13:34 – A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
I feel pity for you.
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This blog definitely has some traffic, judging by all the comments, now doesn’t it? I surely wouldn’t waste my time on some little blog that no one reads, but this place has attracted a lot of people from VC and it has attracted some people who have lied and slandered me, so I take the opportunity to defend myself and give Bible and Qur’an lessons along the way.
19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
What we have here is Jesus telling a common person who follows a false cult that her entire cult is ignorant. “You Samaritans know not what you worship”, and that they are not true worshippers, the Jews are.
That woman could have easily chosen to get angry about being told the offensive truth by Jesus, but she chose to be receptive to the truth.
We are commanded to hate.
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked. — Psalm 97:10
“To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.” — Proverbs 8:14
I claim to be full of hate. Yes, I am full of hate, but I am also full of love. I hate the Darkness, and I love the Light. You cannot love without hating. If you do not hate the idea of your child being molested, then you do not love your child.
Loving your brother means telling your brother the truth, even if it offends him.
Jonah was scared to go to Ninevah to preach to them that they were going to be judged by God for their evil.
Jonah was scared of the potential anger that speaking the offensive truth might bring, he was scared that the Ninevites would kill him for preaching the truth.
That is why he ran away, because he was a coward.
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That’s nice and all, but too bad no one slandered you. All proof was shown of any allegation made, and based on that proof all allegations were fact.
Now, you have lied about others.
And as mentioned before the quality of the evidence for your Dantalion=Toby, and VC is innocent of involvement in the whole drama is as good as the quality of the evidence that someone presented of you being Daciple.
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Wow, what leaps you make in your conclusions.
You say,
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
What we have here is Jesus telling a common person who follows a false cult that her entire cult is ignorant. “You Samaritans know not what you worship”, and that they are not true worshippers, the Jews are.
That woman could have easily chosen to get angry about being told the offensive truth by Jesus, but she chose to be receptive to the truth.
We are commanded to hate.”
So on that perverted interpretation (Projection Bias on your part) you believe you can extrapolate that you are commanded to hate?
You’re wrong. You believe you are commanded to hate because you are hateful and you twist the interpretation of said scriptures to justify what is already in you. You are Projecting {projection bias} as well as committing the fallacy of confirmation bias
Confirmation bias
In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.
Being led by Projection Bias (internal hatred) you look for scriptures to justify your hatred (as above) and then twist their meaning.
What we have there is Jesus is telling her that there will be a time when she doesn’t need a specific place to worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. That she doesn’t know what she worships, but “a time is coming and has NOW COME when athe true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth because that is what the Father seeks. God is spirit and his worshipers must worship in Spirit and in truth!”
He’s telling her there is no specific place.
By the way, in Jonah’s time he didn’t have the internet or name like Chainmaker to hide behind while attacking others. Maybe if he did, he would do the same as you do now.
He only had real life encounters with people.
Would you dare, or have you dared gone up to a devout Muslim and to his face called Mohammed a child raping murderer?
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This blog definitely has some traffic, judging by all the comments, now doesn’t it? I surely wouldn’t waste my time on some little blog that no one reads
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I thought we were all Toby according to you and the other minions of VC?
So you like preaching to Toby? haha
Poor anonymous Chain is being slandered who doesn’t realize he’s slandered others in the same process.
You’re getting a dose of your own and don’t even realize it. I love that you whine about being attacked, failing to see how you attack others because your mind imagined things about them.
Schizo-boy!
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So far observable characteristics of Chainmakers reasoning process
– relies on “outsider” unconfirmed information based on speculation and inductive reasoning fallacies to base his “facts” on
– makes loose associations “Dantalion is Toby because they both are named Jones, because Toby drove Dantalion away to convince Christians to follow him (months later) to kick them out of his forum so they can return to VC and have some fun stuff to talk about” – all emails that Daciple has received since then must be Toby [inductive reasoning fallacy]
– persists with said arguments even in the face of contrary evidence – perseveration and inability to withdraw
– relies on imagination when evidence is lacking, often imagines meaning and terms which are non existent. That he was called a Satanist {never happened, straw man argument} that he stole a car when someone said he went to jail for Grand Theft {complete delusion}. Some insane ramblings about moral relativism and imposing values on others. It took a few turns actually…{slippery slope reasoning fallacy}
– wants to world to end, is projecting his internal doom and gloom externally and in the process [Projection Bias]
– claims he is attacked when in fact he is attacking others [projection bias]
– spreads truth by invoking “anger” in others, by using the disclaimer that they are just angry because they hate truth and he has truth [delusions of grandeur, projection bias]
– Says he’s a warrior for God that will use violence and act in hateful ways because he was commanded to do so by the Bible – [severe delusion of grandeur, more cherry picking]
– Claims he is being attacked [persecution:paranoia] when classic characteristics of irrational conspiracy thinking are revealed
– states and rationalizes away evidence as irrelevant when statements of “fact” are proven false
There’s more, but that’s just a little summary for now.
Carry on Chain….and see you in the morning. I start a 2 week vacation tomorrow 😀 but I’m independently secure financially, so please don’t whatever “mechanical problem” you have going on fixed at any moment too soon.
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You have not offered any contrary evidence to what I said I believe is fact about Toby/Dantalion.
You have called me a fool, a coward, and said that I am a person intentionally leading people away from Christ. I said that accusation is tantamount to calling me a Satanist, an Adversary of Christ, and it is.
You will not admit to having attacked me, but that is blatantly obvious to all who read this.
You say that I am hateful and I admit that I am hateful, you say that the Bible says that people with hate in their hearts cannot go to heaven, and you condemn me and say that I will not go to heaven.
When I post the Scripture that directly commands us to hate, you say I am cherry-picking.
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked. — Psalm 97:10
“To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.” — Proverbs 8:14
The Bible says clearly that hatred of evil = love.
I said that I am violent using the Sword of the Spirit, and that is not physical violence, it is spiritual violence.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Is that cherry-picking as well?
Jesus said that we would be hated because of him, was Jesus a paranoid delusional?
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. — Matthew 10:22
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. — John 15:18
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lol, you have not offered any evidence period to Toby being Dantalion, so what contrary evidence are you calling for A Team to present now?
Don’t you know how onus of proof works? It’s yours to prove firstly. You missed his point. He said using that kind of circular reasoning that you used, one can just the same claim you are Daciple and it is just as believable because neither claim is offering proof.
Dumb da dumb dumb
and what is blatantly obvious to anyone is what is good for the goose is not good for the gander here. You can attack people based on whatever whimsical notion of proof you have, but then cry like a persecuted child when the same mentality is applied in reverse to you.
again
dumb da dumb dumb
I will admit to having attacked you though, because I have. I think you’re a schizoid who is full of himself and who has a negative impact on people and does not care.
you are an imposter Christian without a shadow of a doubt
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“lol, you have not offered any evidence period to Toby being Dantalion, so what contrary evidence are you calling for A Team to present now?
Don’t you know how onus of proof works? It’s yours to prove firstly. You missed his point.”
My dear Kittie, A Team claimed to have offered evidence that contradicted what I said about Dantalion/Toby.
“- makes loose associations “Dantalion is Toby because they both are named Jones, because Toby drove Dantalion away to convince Christians to follow him (months later) to kick them out of his forum so they can return to VC and have some fun stuff to talk about” – all emails that Daciple has received since then must be Toby [inductive reasoning fallacy]
– persists with said arguments even in the face of contrary evidence – perseveration and inability to withdraw”
I said “You have not offered any contrary evidence to what I said I believe is fact about Toby/Dantalion.”
I never claimed to have any hard evidence about Toby/Dantalion, I claimed to have my own experience, and I said that people can believe whatever they want about Toby in the absence of hard evidence, I personally believe that it is fact that Dantalion Jones and Toby Jones were both the same person, not a group of people.
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I’m not going to comment on what you ‘perceive’ the Koran to teach because it’s been a while since I read it and actually I don’t really trust the way you go to extremes interpreting what I’ve said, what the Bible says, and what others have said. I’ve observed too many misinterpretations to hold you as an authority on this, and quite frankly I don’t care. I have my opinion about Islam, and if I encounter a Muslim that wants to debate I certainly won’t disrespect him by telling him the prophet he reveres is a murdering rapist, or anything spiteful like that. Even if I believed it to be true, this person I am debating is a person that deserves to be treated respectfully until the time comes when he/she acts disrespectfully. You can choose to walk way then. Until that time you have to use tacts because insulting his prophet is going to anger him and then you have no chance of reaching him with whatever message you are trying to spread.
If you act this way in real life you will have likely encoutered violence. I think you do not act this “tough” in real life. You take it out on anonymous victims in anonymous forums so you can get away with it.
In fact you admitted such in your thread, that you can do it on VC because you won’t get “socked in the eye”.
That’s sort of cowardly, if you ask me.
______________________________
btw, your act of ignoring the specific message I wrote (above) by rationalizing it away with the delusion that you love someone when you insult their religion, belief system just show the lengths you go to justify and rationalize your primary incentive of provoking anger. No amount of truth that provoking anger in others will not make them receptive to the truth, is reaching you. Perseveration for your anger. Justifications of provoking anger in others, is all you are intent on defending.
You are not out to spread the truth. That’s obvious.
We all know that. Your fellow Christians know that, and Jesus knows that, which is why he said when he comes again and people like you say “have I not preached in your name” he will answer “I do not know you”.
It’s because you do it from hate
“I certainly am full of hate”
and not from love
“love your brother as I have loved you”
You twist the meaning of that statement to imply that you love people by being truthful. It’s black/white reasoning, which is extreme, which is irrational.
There is a better way, but you don’t want it because your primary motive is to incite anger.You have therefore deceived yourself willingly or are unaware of it. Either way….
“Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument.”
That is why Jesus will never know you, unless you have an epiphany and learn to truly love others and spread truth with love. When they reject it, you don’t get angry and start “spitting on their sacred cows” you walk away because you did all you can do.
Spitting on sacred cows
using the word violently, as you admit to doing
being full of hate
all wrong.
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Black/white reasoning is called logical reasoning.
It is the moral relativists who like to pretend that everything is a shade of gray.
I use the Word violently in a spiritual sense as I am commanded to do.
Moses spit on the sacred cow, LITERALLY, destroyed the golden calf.
Jonah spit on the sacred cow of the Ninevites, Elijah spit on the sacred cow of the prophets of Baal.
Jesus spit on the sacred cows of the Pharisees and Saduccees, and Stephen became the first martyr after he told the Jews the truth:
Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him— 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.”
54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their coats at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.
Stephen used very harsh words that were all true.
His words provoked the Jews to such anger that they murdered him.
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I don’t know why my replies aren’t posting properly chronologically.
here’s another try………
You didn’t really just say that Black and White reasoning is called Logical Reasoning did you Chain? I mean REALLY??!??!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?
Hold up, I’m going to do a little Google search…..
…..
…….
………
………..
Uhm nope.
Flaws in reasoning:
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/05/18/cognitive-distortion-how-does-black-and-white-thinking-hurt-us/
http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalflawsinreasoning/a/blackwhite.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
http://courses.csusm.edu/fallacies/black&white.htm
http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/dlp/understanding-depression/all-or-nothing-or-black-and-white-thinking-and-depression/
“All or Nothing, or ‘Black and White’ thinking is the thought pattern that allows us to generate a “flight or fight” response to danger. It is still needed in the world today, but not many times a day in relation to non-life-threatening stress, as so often happens with depression.”
Right there you have wikipedia, and educational institute that teaches logic explicitly saying that you, Chainmaker, are wrong.
It’s even linked to Depression.
You failed again, which is why you fail to use logic properly and that was already obvious by A Team exposing the failed reasoning you use.
Back to the drawing board for you Schizo-Boy
before you go, can you tell me how you linked someone else on some other blog calling you a Kettler, oops was that Black and White thinking that you deem to be logical?
F
A
I
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Hey Kittie,
“I don’t know why my replies aren’t posting properly chronologically.
here’s another try………”
Sorry, thats when you have many links in your post, it automatically needs approval by me, as such posts often are spam (and a blog does not really have a realiable login mechanism except when you create a wordpress account).
In those cases you have to wait until I wake up in europe and check my mails at breakfast 🙂
Now I definitely need to go to bed…
Blessings, Chaukee
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I’ve just discovered VC’s site. The material is interesting, but from the start I thought the site seemed too detailed and professional to be the work of one person researching things in their spare time. The fact that there’s a “sister site” too points to a bigger operation.
What really made me suspicious was the use of red, white and black in VC’s site design. Any Web site that purports to expose the Illuminati, while using the Illuminati’s own colours, is clearly taking the p***. (By this criterion, most Illuminati-exposing Web sites fall into the same category.)
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Hey Fred,
Welcome, and congratulations for your precise power of observation!
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Well, since this is on topic (Somewhat?)…
I found this comment through a random search just recently. It looks like some people were questioning the purpose of the site even back in February 2010.
Image:
URL:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/musicbusiness/the-transhumanist-and-police-state-agenda-in-pop-music/
Notice how the commenter gets quickly attacked and people swarm up and agree with the attacker like a group of zombies.
I mean, how can a person not even think about questioning everything they come across. People need to be careful and think twice about what they read, conspiracy theory site or not. Nothing should ever be taken as gospel.
It’s best to read everything (I wish I could put “everything” in bold, but sadly I can’t) that you find and question all (It would be nice to have “all” in bold.) of it shortly afterward.
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Ayaka, you are probably right in your assertion or implied assertion that there are dozens of sock puppets utilized by the boss and his team to silence dissenters on the site. Like someone else pointed out a “swarm” of posters come in to attack anyone who asks hard questions, often these posers have a dozen or two postings all together, mostly protecting or spreading other lies but obviously to overwhelm anyone who notices a slight discrepancy or inconsistency. Someone else pointed out that one of Vigilant Citizen’s accomplices Henrik does this very thing. You can do a search on his name and see that this is indeed correct.
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The “A” Team,
I’ve noticed that the name “Henrik” is a very common name and I’m trying to find the specific “Henrik” you are referring to, but I don’t know who it could be.
Anyway, I found this Wikipedia page about a user named “Henrik” and I’m wondering if it could be the same one.
Any thoughts?
Site URL:
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/User:Henrik
Screenshots:
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I don’t think that wiki page refers to Henrik of VC. Just looking above, near the top when the comments were still in their infancy, lol, the Henrik that is being referred to is this one:
Good day Henrik Ryosa of
http://www.illomennation.com
http://www.scanime.com,
http://www.voxhouse.net
http://www.ryosa.com
Henrik Ryosa other animation company http://www.voxhouse.net/tag/henrik-ryosa
http://www.youtube.com/HenrikRyosaMusic
Below are comments made by some of the people commenting here regarding Henrik’s participation in VC website and the forums. They were apparently made by different “names”, however according to Henrik, Tweeterfist and some of the other VC aficionado’s they’re all the same person. Can you guess who? Yes, they all must be “TOBY” or “DANTALION”.
“Joel is an online marketing genius who also owns Distort Entertainment and “produces” music for “underground” or “urban” band in Montreal and Toronto. Mickael lives in Laval where VigilantCitizen runs his operation out of. Henrik Ryosa of illomennation.com is also one of their accomplices who also knows a lot of digitial media and was once working with Joel on Distort Entertainment until realizing separate ideas would pull them in separate directions. Henrik now lives in Sweden and runs a production/media company of his own, but helps to steer people in certain directions with online contributions mainly to VC’s forum.”
“Greg Belows is Mitch Joel’s partner at Distort Media. This is where Henrik Ryosa and the authors of the Vigilant Citizen became acquaintances. Henrik has a death metal band illomennation.com and a media production company scanime.com”
“I then looked in this person’s post history and noticed that she pissed anme1984 (now known as Astral Gemini_1984) off by posting a link from “United With Israel” by trying to make the country look great by presenting their “latest scientifc breakthroughs”. After reading this, it was pretty obvious that “aaayitselle” is a Zionist disinfo agent. Speaking of disinfo agents, I find it hilarious how Henrik once called me that when I first joined the site.
“Disinfo agent”, along with “ignorant” and “lier” are common words that a lot of the users on their like to call anyone who gives way too much detailed information.”
“On occasion TweeterFink steps in. Usually Loki and Henrik are involved but one retired and the other is looking for work, lol. Most of the rest just do what is cool, but it’s always that Fat Kat putting her stubby toes in her mouth isn’t it?”
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The “A” Team,
Thank for bring that back up. I forgot all about Henrik Ryosa.
I guess that I was so caught up in looking for info on the Chain Maker and VC in general, that the earlier comments just somehow crawled into the back of my memory.
The third comment you listed is the one I made back in December, when I was frustrated and was pointing out my problems at the time. This was before I got wise and started taking screenshots of everything I come across that looks interesting.
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“if you are reading Chaukadeer”
sure I am, dear Chainmaker 🙂 Have to see that the extremists here are not crossing my lines of minimal ethical behaviour…
“This I can agree with. This is insightful, and I thank you for it.”
Well, Chainy, I think that enlightenment of yours did not last very long, the anger came back quickly!
“Blavatsky and Bailey are just two widely known names out of a gazillion false prophet/false teacher gurus including one A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada”
Question (with the huge probability that you will not answer it, as shown by the A-Team): Is there ANY prophet, spiritual teacher or guru that is NOT false in your eyes?
Are you really that literate enough to state reasons why Srila Prabhupada did not live up to your high standards? Now I’m really curious if you can produce more than the superficial prejudice you normally do, please surprise me, for the sake of your poor soul!
Thank you Chainy for having me back in the discussion. For the most part of lately I just profited silently from the A-Teams scientific/psychological lessons, how he made you look like a fool more than once, as well as for the insight you gave me conserning Mohammed’s sexual preferences, which where quite new for me but fit well into the biography of a war cult prophet and women supressor). But honestly, the ping-pong of the two of you, “A” vs. “Chain” is getting a LITTLE boring anyway, at least as I see it. I hope you, A-Team, finally find the trigger to present the facts in the Toby-drama? Not that I miss Toby…
Love and peace to all of you, Chaukee
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You are welcome to be brought into the discussion Chauk. Hopefully abbreviating your name isn’t some kind of slur.
I am also growing bored with defending against A Team’s lies, attacks and willful misinterpretations of Christian Scripture, it sometimes gets to a point in a debate when the same things have been said 100 times and the spectators have already heard pretty much everything there is to hear from either side of an argument.
——————————————————————————————–
“Have to see that the extremists here are not crossing my lines of minimal ethical behaviour…”
——————————————————————————————-
I hope that doesn’t mean that you are thinking about censoring viewpoints like Vigilant does…
I have your attention and I have made my views clear, so I would like to address your sacred cow Chauk.
First I will take the advice from A Team and I will build you up.
I think you are obviously a very intelligent and inquisitive person Chauk, and I think you did a good thing in creating this blog to tackle important questions regarding the VC website. I very much respect your respect of free speech in letting people, even those who you deem to be extremists, to voice their beliefs freely.
I am glad that you have been able to recognize that the ideas of Blavatsky, Bailey, and Crowley represent Luciferian evil, and that the huge push for New Age Eastern philosophies in the West since the 60s is advanced according to their ideology. At least according to you, “most of it”.
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Gnostic Lucy Fury’ian wrote:
“I agree with you 100% that amidst 100 of stories, Jesus anger was a small minority, but rather he chose to preach a gospel of love for the majority. If you tell Chain and his best friend Daciple this they will call you Gnostic, even though I never once spread the typical doctrine that they we are little Gods waiting to reconnect with the big God.
Actually Chaukeedaar, if you tell them that you are a follower of Krishna and put your faith in the Bhagavad-Gītā, he’ll promptly start spitting on your sacred cows, as he not so eloquently put it.
On the other hand, he may not out of fear of being banned or censored though. He never went after Vigilant as fiercely as he went after normal users because he knew it would limit his participation, so he may leave you alone here too. Chainmaker and his crew believe Vigilant is a Gnostic Luciferian too, but they know not to bite the hand that feeds them. In turn Vigilant lets them spread their Christianity of hate because it gives all Christians a bad name and there is a win-win going on there. In the end Chainmaker got banned because he crossed too many people by calling them Satanists and was intolerable. His hatred started dominating the religion forums and a lot of users stopped coming around. He wasn’t able to keep it on restraint and what used to be good for business, was now bad.”
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I explained that Daciple challenged Vigilant’s “mystic Christian” false doctrine on the old board, and I have given my view repeatedly now that I believe it is cowardice for a Christian to refuse to speak against false prophets or belief systems for fear of angering their followers.
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Chaukeedaar wrote:
First, I’m no muslim and I will never be. To me, a religion that allows itself to suppress 50% of the population (women), treats pedophilia as cultural normality and kills people for their other believe systems ethically is not much higher than satanism itself.
Second, I’m no Hindu as I believe in one God, the Creator of all that is, not in dozens of Semi-Gods (that probably rather are and have been demons or physical extraterrestrials). I do think that the eastern spiritual traditions have kept a lot of true wisdom that has been lost in decades of jewish and christian religious brain-wash in the west (coming from these religions having been in the wrap of the pharisee/occult and mystic secret societies all the time). The concept of immortal souls and Karma is a thousand times more plausible to me than the concept of forgiveness of sins and this simple heaven-and-hell concept that the churches extracted from the bible (and a bible that is thrown together and selected from chosen sources and manipulated in the early days).
If you can sleep better in giving me an label, please call me a follower of the Hare Krishna movement of Srila Prabhubada and a true lover of Jesus Christ. And when I talked about Christ-Consciousness I did not mean that twisted New Age bubbling I just looked up after Tweeterfist’s question, but that I dignify the teachings and the life of Jesus, and not that weird doctrin of salvation and supression of spirituality the churches created afterwards.
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I am glad to see that you are unafraid to voice your belief that Islam is very immoral, nearly as bad as Satanism as you put it. You recognize the immorality of the mistreatment of women and children, and the inherent violence of Islam.
What you said there would be very offensive to Muslims, and many would deny your claims about Islam. That statement would in many cases cause anger in Muslims who take personal offense to such Islamophobic hate. I of course agree with your claims completely, and support your freedom to express such hateful, extremist opinions of a major world religion.
I guess that you would agree that you and I share the same “superficial prejudice” of Islam. Well, maybe not. You probably don’t see our prejudice against Islam as being superficial, and neither do I.
You have expressed gratitude to me for helping to extend your knowledge of the reason why pedophilia is an accepted normality in Islam, which is that Mohammed was a pedophile himself. You are very welcome.
You state that you are not Hindu because you do not believe in many gods(although many Hindus believe that the many gods are all manifestations of one God) while you call on Lord Krishna the Hindu god and equate this Hindu god to Jesus, and you also believe in karma and reincarnation which are the beliefs that are the foundation of the racist caste system of Hinduism.
The lower castes of India are discriminated against with the rationale that karma has punished them for their past evil deeds by their birth as lower caste. Thus, all men are not born equal under God, or the gods.
The ideas of karma and reincarnation were of course preached by Blavatsky and Bailey.
You express a belief that the Bible has been manipulated, that the books of the Bible were selected to spread a false doctrine about sin and forgiveness. The basic teachings of sin and forgiveness are Jewish teachings that vastly predate the New Testament. The Jews sacrificed animals for forgiveness of sin, and Jesus preached that he gave himself as the sacrifice to pay for the sins of all mankind.
This is not an idea that was added later, it is the fundamental doctrine of early Christianity.
The Gnostic gospels, proven to have been written much later than Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, preach a different message, and those are the books that were left out of the canon.
The Jewish leadership hated Christianity, and they still hate Christianity. The Kabbalists do not promote the doctrine that Jesus was the Messiah whose blood atones for sin. The secular state church of Rome began oppressing free-thinking Christians as soon as Constantine came to power, and going into the Middle Ages oppressed Christians who spoke against their corruption and made it illegal for anyone but priests to own Bibles, and jailed and murdered anyone trying to translate the Bible from Latin into the common languages of Europe That was the root of the Reformation, but then new oppressive secular state churches rose up like the Church of England.
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As for what drives me, well, my article “https://chaukeedaar.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/who-is-chaukeedaar/” would give you my background. I’m more of a deist, feel very close to the culture of the Hare Krishna movement, as well as the original spirit of Jesus Christ (not the churches-version).
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You do not dignify the fundamental teaching of Jesus Christ about how to be saved, you reject it. The Bible says what Jesus said and did, and he preached that all men are condemned by their sin and need salvation through his atoning sacrifice.
What you are preaching is not the original spirit of Jesus Christ, it is a lie.
You posted this quote: ——————————————————————————————–
“[Freemasonry] makes no profession of Christianity, and wars not against sectarian creeds or doctrines, but looks forward to the time when the labor of our ancient brethren shall be symbolized by the erection of a spiritual temple whose moral grandeur shall be commensurate with civilization; a temple in which there shall be but one altar and but one worship; one common altar of Masonry on which the Veda, Shastras, Sade, Zend-Avesta, Koran, and Holy Bible shall lie untouched by sacrilegious hands, and at whose shrine the Hindoo, the Persian, the Assyrian, the Chaldean, the Egyptian, the Chinese, the Muhammadan, the Jew, and the Christian may kneel with one united voice celebrate the praises of the Supreme Architect of the Universe.”
The Kentucky Monitor, p. 95, Grand Lodge of Kentucky
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Although you reject Islam, you are not so different from these Freemasons who desecrate the Truth of Jesus Christ by saying that the Bible is equal to the Vedas.
From Wikipedia:
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Prabhupada considered Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed to be empowered representatives of God, describing them within his writings as pioneers of the same essential message of dedication to God with love and devotion.[59]
“ “Actually, it doesn’t matter – Krishna or Christ – the name is the same. The main point is to follow the injunctions of the Vedic scriptures that recommend chanting the name of God in this age.” [60] ”
Other typical expression presents a different perspective, where Prabhupada would point out that “today I may be a Hindu, but tomorrow I may become a Christian or Muslim. In this way faiths can be changed, but dharma” is a natural sequence, a natural occupation or a connection and it can not be changed, because it is permanent, according to him.
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You express hatred of Islam, where Prabhupada did not.
Prabhupada preached the same blasphemous One World Religion as the Freemasons do, in slightly different form.
From Wikipedia:
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Krishna (Sanskrit: कृष्ण) (kṛṣṇa in IAST, pronounced [ˈkr̩ʂɳə] literally “dark, black, dark-blue”[1]) is a central figure of Hinduism and is traditionally attributed the authorship of the Bhagavad Gita. He is known as the eighth and “complete” avatar of Lord Vishnu, come to restore Dharma to the earth in a time of great dharmic imbalance. Krishna is identified as a historical individual who participated in the events of the Mahabharata.
Krishna is often described as an infant or young boy playing a flute as in the Bhagavata Purana,[2] or as a youthful prince giving direction and guidance as in the Bhagavad Gita.[3] The stories of Krishna appear across a broad spectrum of Hindu philosophical and theological traditions.[4] They portray him in various perspectives: a god-child, a prankster, a model lover, a divine hero and the Supreme Being.[5] The principal scriptures discussing Krishna’s story are the Mahabharata, the Harivamsa, the Bhagavata Purana and the Vishnu Purana.
Worship of a deity of Krishna, in the form of Vasudeva, Bala Krishna or Gopala, can be traced to as early as 4th century BC.[6][7] Worship of Krishna as svayam bhagavan, or the Supreme Being, known as Krishnaism, arose in the Middle Ages in the context of the bhakti movement.
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Krishna is one Hindu false god among thousands. Krishna is a late addition to the Hindu pantheon, there is no Krishna in the Rigveda.
The point of equating pagan gods to YHWH or Jesus is to blaspheme.
God has a name, it is YHWH, I AM WHO I AM. The Son of God, the Messiah has a name, Yehoshua, transliterated Jesus.
Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, who came to a culture of Jews whose Scripture denounced all pagan gods.
Equating Krishna to Jesus is the same blasphemy as the Masonic equation of Osiris and Baal to YHWH as Jah-bul-on, their not-so-secret-anymore name for God, the Great Architect as they call him.
Chauk, this is the Truth of God:
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me
Matthew 26:26-28 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9:24-28 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
God bless ya Chauk, I’ll be praying for ya.
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“I am also growing bored with defending against A Team’s lies, attacks and willful misinterpretations of Christian Scripture, it sometimes gets to a point in a debate when the same things have been said 100 times”
I have not lied about one thing. But I have asked you to tell me where I have lied. You’ve ignored that, you fall into the characteristic of the paranoid irrational conspiracy theorist who
– ignores questions posed directly to him
You have lied that I called you a Satanist based on an lame extrapolation using inductive reasoning fallacy that I believe your hatred and cherry picking of scriptures to justify your hatred -drives- more people away from scriptures than draws them to it, and that you have been told this enough times by people, even Bible believing Christians, whereby your refusal to listen and change your style is indicative of the motive of not truly preaching the good word, but bastardizing it to justify your internal rage and anger {Projection Bias}
characteristics of the paranoid irrational conspiracy theorist within that behavior:
– Projection Bias
– Confirmation Bias
– Inductive reasoning fallacies
– perseveration or inability to withdraw based on proper evidence
This list is mounting, and you fulfill almost all the criteria for the characteristics to be applied here.
That’s not an attack. Remember? You justify name calling others (Satanists) based on a perceived definition that you gleaned from “other Satanists” and say that you will not be censored in sharing the truth. So on that basis, I cannot be censored from delivering the truth to you, and if that means I am attacking you, then you are attacking them.
That was too easy.
Good day, I’ll try to see you all later on tonight when I return from my hike – fresh air, you should try it Chainmaker.
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Ok, this one is gonna be long…
First off, thank you Chainmaker for your respectable answer – I did not feel offended by it at all.
“Hopefully abbreviating your name isn’t some kind of slur.”
Nope, it is not my real name and thus I do not identify with it at all. But nice that you asked, I for myself was much less polite in calling “you” Chainy without asking 😉
But I also hope this was out of politeness and not as a sidekick to relativize the mistake of using the word “Paki” (I have no provable reason to question your apology though).
“I hope that doesn’t mean that you are thinking about censoring viewpoints like Vigilant does…”
My current censoring criteria as pointed out above somewhere in the comment flow are:
“From now on I’m going to delete/not publish comments that
– contain explicit words of a certain level
– only contain stupid texts copied from the VC board
– have no real information value other that the author intended to derail the discussion”
You know, there where pornographic words in some texts from the VC forums that someone tried to publish here (with probably a good intend, however) I would not even use among my friends for fun (don’t know if that explanation really transports the message, but I don’t want to use these words myself, logically).
“I have your attention and I have made my views clear, so I would like to address your sacred cow Chauk.”
You would be surprised about how few things really are sacred cows to me and how much they align with your own (except for the instant christian salvation paradigm where we do not agree). Specifically you did not hit any of my sacred cows with your text, and even then it would be your Karma you pollute with it, not mine 😉
“I think you are obviously a very intelligent and inquisitive person Chauk, and I think you did a good thing in creating this blog to tackle important questions regarding the VC website.”
Thanks for the first part, second one is a wrong assumption of yours. This blog exists for more than a year and VC was no topic until last october (maybe as information source). You may want to check my topics or see where I was wrong during that time – I was several times and admitted it instantly in the comments section when asked. A thing I am not sure how to handle it, is if and how I should correct or enhance my own articles where I was wrong, but that only as a sidenote.
“I very much respect your respect of free speech in letting people, even those who you deem to be extremists, to voice their beliefs freely.”
Thanks again and by the way: I’m a bit sorry that my extremists-statement hit you more than intended, I thought I managed to put a humoristic-ironic tone in that statement, probably my fault. As many other people who are spiritually evolved much more than I have stated (I guess there is even a scripture of Jesus stating this): Humor is a very good and reliable sign to identify the ones who really have God in their heart (I hope you guys forgive my free citing, I’m very bad in remembering things word by word, but quite good in visual and “coherence” remembering, to everybody his own talents).
“I am glad that you have been able to recognize that the ideas of Blavatsky, Bailey, and Crowley represent Luciferian evil, and that the huge push for New Age Eastern philosophies in the West since the 60s is advanced according to their ideology.”
The first thing is VERY easy to detect for God’s children, as Blavatsky’s, Bailey’s and Crowley’s hate for God, Jesus, true love, compassion and empathy springs out of every syllable they put down. What is truly shocking for some and REALLY, REALLY important to spread and explain to the people online and in real life, is that these satanists, moral relativists and favorite sources of the occulte elite (of the Illuminati, Freemasons, all that secret rat pack) are the inventors and initiators of New Age, of the great channeling deception, of the satanist New World Order, the staged second coming and alien disclosure, the ground crew of the great snake! That is the real insight that thanks to many contributors to this comment section grew deeper and deeper in myself and substantially helped me to write my latest article. THANK YOU FOR THAT GUYS 🙂
“I am glad to see that you are unafraid to voice your belief that Islam is very immoral, nearly as bad as Satanism as you put it. You recognize the immorality of the mistreatment of women and children, and the inherent violence of Islam.”
There we surely agree. I would only like to refine my words: I do think that Islam as a religion and the Koran as its source contain largely immoral instructions. This does not exclude the possibility and fact of muslim people who are very moral in their actions and thoughts. I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like christians, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition – tools that our Father gave us to deal with the serpent and its lies. I have met good muslim brothers worldwide and I judge everybody by its actions. If they repent from suppressing their women, spreading hate and war and death, and really concentrate on the love of Allah, they have also a chance to live on a better planet and/or universe one day. That I am sure of.
“I of course agree with your claims completely, and support your freedom to express such hateful, extremist opinions of a major world religion.”
I’m completely incapable of seeing where my statement is hateful. Thats perhaps because I do not feel hateful towards any of that (sometimes I sure am, but really not when I wrote that). Evil makes me feel sorry for the people and entities committing it, and raises a strong sense of wanting to defend the casualties of that evil. I do not think God gave me the power to better all humans on earth, but he gave me the power to better myself, to use my free will to decide well. I say that to explain why I do not feel angry about the bad: I respect their free will to be bad. I only wish that they have no chance to harm the good and have to live among themselves until they progress. Thats my world view as of now. Sometimes I’m angry but I work hard to not let it become hate.
“I guess that you would agree that you and I share the same “superficial prejudice” of Islam. Well, maybe not. You probably don’t see our prejudice against Islam as being superficial, and neither do I.”
I do agree that we share the same superficial prejudice 😉 about Islam. I do towards many of the instructions of Islam as a concept – not as the sacred cow of many people who find positive inspiration in that religion in legitimate areas. Sounds a bit elevated, I know…
“…while you call on Lord Krishna the Hindu god”
I call him as the highest and loving creator and source of everything, our Father in the heavens. Why does it matter to you what name I use if I address the right spirit? Are you really that limited in spiritual cognition? I’m sure you are not! What if I say that crying the name “Krishna” out very loud once when I was under attack of some aetheric/interdimensional entity I was saved from that threat immediately? May that name be so wrong if the concept is right?
“…and equate this Hindu god to Jesus”
Sorry, that was not me, that was Srila Praphupada (“Actually, it doesn’t matter – Krishna or Christ – the name is the same”). Even though I love this dedicated angel of God like my own father I AM NOT HIM 😉 . And for the sake of sharpening your skills of thinking: Srila Praphupada equated the name, not the entity. You fell for his implication he may have put in his words…
“…and you also believe in karma and reincarnation which are the beliefs that are the foundation of the racist caste system of Hinduism…”
Thats right. Like the bible was the foundation of the inquisition. Can you see the worthlessness of your argument/unexpressed implication?
“The lower castes of India are discriminated against with the rationale that karma has punished them for their past evil deeds by their birth as lower caste. Thus, all men are not born equal under God, or the gods.”
I completely agree. As proof, here is an older comment of mine on that subject on Zen Gardner’s Blog:
“Just look what the same dark forces have done in India to the true teachings of the vedas, like karma, which resultet in the evil cast system… Secret societies coming from the pharisee tradition have sucessfully undercut any positiv aspects of religious and spiritual traditions almost worldwide!”
http://www.naturalmedicine.com/blogs/wondering/2011/09/30/the-blue-beings-occult-programming/
“You express hatred of Islam, where Prabhupada did not.”
If we can agree on the fact that I do not express hatred about Islam, but ethically grounded reservations about many instructions of it, I agree with that finding of yours. It might be shocking for some but when I call someone “my guru” I do not leave my own essence of reason at the door.
“Prabhupada preached the same blasphemous One World Religion as the Freemasons do, in slightly different form.”
I think A-Team called that crippled logic you use here “jumping to conclusions” (thanks A-Team, you’re the mentor)! If preaching that there is only one highest, creational and all-loving God and that we can advance in life by building a constant conscious connection with our Father is equated with “you are your own god”, “do as thou wilt”, “Jesus is just another ascended master”, then I must warn you that you are about to work into the hands of the deceivers of this world. I leave it by this free warning, the choice of listening into your heart or not is yours.
“The point of equating pagan gods to YHWH or Jesus is to blaspheme.”
Sorry, “blaspheme” is no category I can and want to think in. I don’t live in the medieval, do you?
“Equating Krishna to Jesus is the same blasphemy as the Masonic equation of Osiris and Baal to YHWH as Jah-bul-on, their not-so-secret-anymore name for God, the Great Architect as they call him.”
Jumping to conclusions plus straw-man argument (Prabhupada equated the name, maybe the spirit in his intention, but not the entity).
“John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me”
I respect that (said) statement of Jesus very much, but surely in another sense than you do. I wonder very much about all the poor humans that where born BEFORE Jesus and could not look into the future and thus had no chance to “come to the Father but through Jesus”. As well as the poor humans that never came in touch with his teachings after him due to geographical issues. Spiritual considerations are a very important tool for me to detect false teachings. For me it is a 100% percent clear that Jesus meant his spirit of love, trueness and faith that needs to be lived to come to the father. OR we do not directly come to our Father after this live and world, but after several evolutionary steps in-between where everybody knows Jesus quite naturally and thus can surrender to him. Your biblical world view is unfair, illogical and simply – spiritually immature.
“Matthew 26:26-28 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.””
Basis of the churches blood and carcass cult, but not by his fault. I know these parts that very well because I was raised catholic (now you see the damage this cult can do to someone 😉 ). With such scriptures people should focus on the meaning behind the words to really understand him.
By accepting “the Bible” as God’s unaltered word you fall for the early writing manipulations of humans, as I said before. There are whole bookshelves that proof that claim. And please don’t push here the cherry-picking argument – If you would take the whole bible literally, especially the old testament, you would become a very inconsequent and schizoid mind that would conduct very serious crimes against your fellow humans. As I now think of it I can hardly believe you are that naive. If not and you’re only playing games, congratulations from the loughs you’re getting from us!
Even the new testament has some flaws:
“About the contradiction of how Simon Peter found out that Jesus was the Christ:
(a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew16:17).
(b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41).
Which is it now? How can such information about the holy Jesus be inaccurate? If the writers can’t even decide how Simon Peter found out that Jesus was the Christ, how can these men who cant even get a simple information correct, be obliged to write other things in the Bible?…When caught in obvious contradictions, bible believers simply reinterpret the bible. When caught again, they reinterpret it again with another twist. Bible academics will pull their hair out attempting to rationalize away these contradictions with complex answers that exhaust the reader instead of enlightening them. It’s almost like observing a high-priced lawyer giving a “Chewbacca” defense — where the aim of the argument is to confuse the jury. The simple truth is that many of these contradictions are in fact contradictions.”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_true_that_there_are_so_many_contradictions_in_the_Bible#ixzz1kQPp7HoO
One question you did not answer and I don’t want to be picky because of that, but perhaps you want to invalidate A-Teams argument by yourself about being an irrational conspiracy theorist… 😉
“Question (with the huge probability that you will not answer it, as shown by the A-Team): Is there ANY prophet, spiritual teacher or guru that is NOT false in your eyes?”
“God bless ya Chauk, I’ll be praying for ya.”
Thank you, same to you!
Hare Krishna, Chaukee
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“The first thing is VERY easy to detect for God’s children, as Blavatsky’s, Bailey’s and Crowley’s hate for God, Jesus, true love, compassion and empathy springs out of every syllable they put down. What is truly shocking for some and REALLY, REALLY important to spread and explain to the people online and in real life, is that these satanists, moral relativists and favorite sources of the occulte elite (of the Illuminati, Freemasons, all that secret rat pack) are the inventors and initiators of New Age, of the great channeling deception, of the satanist New World Order, the staged second coming and alien disclosure, the ground crew of the great snake! That is the real insight that thanks to many contributors to this comment section grew deeper and deeper in myself and substantially helped me to write my latest article. THANK YOU FOR THAT GUYS :-)”
Right on Chauk! It’s easy to spot the imposters that Blavatsky and Bailey were because for one, they were completely wrong about their dates of when and where, but more importantly like you point out the hatred in their words towards God soaks the pages their words are written on. Great discernment there.
“There we surely agree. I would only like to refine my words: I do think that Islam as a religion and the Koran as its source contain largely immoral instructions. ”
Here is an example of Chauk not throwing baby out with the bathwater, an appropriate analogy to apply. Chauk is able to separate the actions of the extremists.
“This does not exclude the possibility and fact of muslim people who are very moral in their actions and thoughts.”
I agree with you Chauk.
” I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like christians, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition – tools that our Father gave us to deal with the serpent and its lies. I have met good muslim brothers worldwide and I judge everybody by its actions.”
Right on again!
“Thats right. Like the bible was the foundation of the inquisition. Can you see the worthlessness of your argument/unexpressed implication?”
Exactly, if one is going to judge the actions of a group based on their supposed sacred text, then the Bible would have to be seen as corrupt because inquisitors were. That’s throwing baby out with bathwater mentality again. Chain uses that sort of thinking a lot.
Chain – “You express hatred of Islam, where Prabhupada did not.”
Chauk – “If we can agree on the fact that I do not express hatred about Islam, but ethically grounded reservations about many instructions of it, I agree with that finding of yours. It might be shocking for some but when I call someone “my guru” I do not leave my own essence of reason at the door.”
I think Chain is trying to equate your agreement with him on some topics as the same hatred he shares on the topics so he can claim you hate them to and use that as a basis to keep acting like he’s justified in being hateful.
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Chauk, “I respect that (said) statement of Jesus very much, but surely in another sense than you do. I wonder very much about all the poor humans that where born BEFORE Jesus and could not look into the future and thus had no chance to “come to the Father but through Jesus”. As well as the poor humans that never came in touch with his teachings after him due to geographical issues. Spiritual considerations are a very important tool for me to detect false teachings. For me it is a 100% percent clear that Jesus meant his spirit of love, trueness and faith that needs to be lived to come to the father. OR we do not directly come to our Father after this live and world, but after several evolutionary steps in-between where everybody knows Jesus quite naturally and thus can surrender to him. Your biblical world view is unfair, illogical and simply – spiritually immature.”
I really respect the way you can put Chain in his place without being offensive, like I can be. Peace to you Chauk!
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Sorry, this is just an observation. Chainmaker, whoever you are, you have a brilliant mind, it is almost frightening. I now see how you lure with just the right amount of truth to stir up desire within the viewer. You also play the victim very well, but the poison you inject. Wow!
It was a little hard to see while the argument was between you and The “A” Team, but the way you built up this new argument with Chaukeedaar exposed you. The subtle threat:
“I hope that doesn’t mean that you are thinking about censoring viewpoints like Vigilant does…”
You know there was no need, as Chaukeedaar defended, the criteria has already been laid out.
Then you (charmingly) use common ground of how you both see certain beliefs as a door, before it turns sinister. You start:
“I think you are obviously a very intelligent and inquisitive person Chauk, and I think you did a good thing in creating this blog to tackle important questions regarding the VC website. I very much respect your respect of free speech in letting people, even those who you deem to be extremists, to voice their beliefs freely.
I am glad that you have been able to recognize that the ideas of Blavatsky, Bailey, and Crowley represent Luciferian evil, and that the huge push for New Age Eastern philosophies in the West since the 60s is advanced according to their ideology. At least according to you, “most of it”.”
But then it leads to this:
“Although you reject Islam, you are not so different from these Freemasons who desecrate the Truth of Jesus Christ by saying that the Bible is equal to the Vedas.”
The rest has to be seen for itself. So you are a Christian… really? Then why use such sly tactics. If you believe a person’s beliefs are wrong, then tell them how you see the truth in a sincere way. After all, I thought it was the truth that sets people free. Have you studied the way Jesus preached the gospel? I promise you for one, his words were not as lengthy, because he had nothing to prove and there was power behind his words. To be truthful, you’re going to be here for a long time.
The “A” Team, I hope you can see how much you have been slowed down.
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Barry,
I’ve been waiting for Chainmaker to make some admissions before showing what I found, and therefore slowed myself down. That is if you’re talking about the lessons I was presenting?
You’re beginning to see what everyone else has already noticed about Chainmaker, how he uses the Bible and cherry picks scriptures to, as you put it, “inject poison”. The poison is internal (his rage) and psychologically he projects that rage externally to others who don’t succumb to him and his “spiritual authority” as he put it.
He’s a dangerous individual, although I do not doubt he and his methods are rejected in real life, it merely adds to his anger and his desire that those who don’t, “burn in the lake of fire”. That is something he has expressed many times. He hides it behind “loving” and “feeling sad” that this might happen to others, but internally he wishes it would.
Good that you noticed that.
I’ll be doing a recap soon. I wonder where Chain went? After the “black and right = Logical reasoning” debacle, and my question as to whether he would ever have the courage to tell a genuine common Muslim that his prophet was a baby raping, child molesting murderer to his face, he suddenly disappeared.
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Hey dear Kitty,
Thank you so much for your very nice and fast support! Actually that morning I was wondering if I should log in and get heated from a possible response from Chain to my text… I did anyway and voilà: There was your heart warming backup!
“I think Chain is trying to equate your agreement with him on some topics as the same hatred he shares on the topics so he can claim you hate them to and use that as a basis to keep acting like he’s justified in being hateful.”
There you are sure right, if he did conscious or unconscious he probably cannot tell us even himself! It was not so difficult to detect and counter, happily…
“I really respect the way you can put Chain in his place without being offensive, like I can be. Peace to you Chauk!”
You know, if being a bit sharp in your reactions is the lesson you have to learn in this incarnation of yours, be happy, it normally levels automatically with age and minimal occupation with yourself and spirituality – advice from someone who went through the same process with the same issue 😉 Actually, there is so much good inspiration, automatically suggested wisdom and progress coming down to us in these difficult times of the world – if we switch off the noise of our mind, and listen with our soul. Like today, I can’t even count the deep insights that automatically came to me when thinking about various things. I’m very thankful for His help, you know?
Talking of not being offensive towards Chainmaker, I actually felt a bit uneasy after I posted my comment, as there actually were words like immature and naive I used and somebody sensitive or ungrounded could feel attacked. Remains of the days where I used to be REALLY provoking and ruthless in discussions with people when I thought they could not reach my intellect. Very bad habit of mine!
Friendly greetings, Chaukee
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When I get the plaque for my wall made, the one that says “Vigilant Citizen Public Enemy # 2, I will be sure to also have (Dangerous Individual) inscribed.
🙂
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Even if vigilantcitizen is a “disinfo-agent” I think the forum is a great place to exchange thoughts and oppinions.
Why don’t you rejoin the forum to have conversations about conspiracies and current events and just ignore the articles or whatever you think is disinfo ? or have you all been banned ?
I would like to read your thoughts on the various topics on the board.
I think it would be a great improvement, because some of the frequent posters are a little annoying and I wonder what they even want on a site like this when their opinion is equal to the close-minded mainstream opinion on f*** every topic.
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They were all banned, many of the people banned were banned after being called “Toby”. Toby is now a fictional straw man that is used whenever VC or his gang of “yes men” need to silence people who ask hard questions. Toby is a nemesis of VC, apparently he is also Dantalion Jones who once worked with VC (according to Chainmaker). Chainmaker doesn’t see the connection that if Dantalion worked with VC and Toby is Dantalion, then VC was involved in a lot of what they blame the other two, or if you believe them, the other one.
Lesson 10 is coming shortly. It’s ready, but I’m not ready to present it just yet. I want Chainmaker to continue implicating himself, and I am happy to use him as a means to discredit the type of shoddy unscientific thinking that the typical irrational conspiracy theorist engages in.
If you followed any of my lessons from 1-9, you’ll understand that we are all conspiracy theorists on some level. We look for causation for effects, that may sometimes not exist, but in other instances do actually exist.
For that reason the irrational conspiracy theorist (lesson’s 4-7) can be distinguished from the rational conspiracy theorist by one major characteristics.
The rational one considers all conspiracies that he/she hears to be
Probably
until the time comes where it is
Provable.
Chainmaker and his gang are not rational conspiracy theorists, and I have demonstrated on multiple instances that they fit the characteristics of the irrational conspiracy theorist driven by paranoia (believing that they are being targeted), delusions of grandeur (believe that spending time on VC is what God has called them to do), and a wide variety of inductive reasoning fallacies (Lesson 9.5).
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* Probable not Probably
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…..Wow, what leaps you make in your conclusions….. {hasty generalizations based on projection and confirmation biases – faulty logic}
You say,
21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
What we have here is Jesus telling a common person who follows a false cult that her entire cult is ignorant. “You Samaritans know not what you worship”, and that they are not true worshippers, the Jews are.
That woman could have easily chosen to get angry about being told the offensive truth by Jesus, but she chose to be receptive to the truth.
We are commanded to hate.”
So on that perverted interpretation (Projection Bias on your part) you believe you can extrapolate that you are commanded to hate?
You’re wrong. You believe you are commanded to hate because you are hateful and you twist the interpretation of said scriptures to justify what is already in you. You are Projecting {projection bias} as well as committing the fallacy of confirmation bias
Confirmation bias
In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.
Being led by Projection Bias (internal hatred) you look for scriptures to justify your hatred (as above) and then twist their meaning.
What we have there is Jesus is telling her that there will be a time when she doesn’t need a specific place to worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. That she doesn’t know what she worships, but “a time is coming and has NOW COME when athe true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth because that is what the Father seeks. God is spirit and his worshipers must worship in Spirit and in truth!”
He’s telling her there is no specific place.
By the way, in Jonah’s time he didn’t have the internet or name like Chainmaker to hide behind while attacking others. Maybe if he did, he would do the same as you do now.
He only had real life encounters with people.
Would you dare, or have you dared gone up to a devout Muslim and to his face called Mohammed a child raping murderer?
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“You believe you are commanded to hate because you are hateful and you twist the interpretation of said scriptures to justify what is already in you. You are Projecting {projection bias} as well as committing the fallacy of confirmation bias”
I am not twisting this:
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
Instead, you are willfully denying it.
Jesus clearly said that the Samaritans did not know what they worshipped, he said they were ignorant. He did not say that they were true worshippers who did not know where to properly worship, he said they did not know what they worshipped and the Jews did know, the Jews who worshipped at the Temple who knew where to properly worship and Who they were worshipping.
I have not yet in my life had any opportunity to debate a Muslim face-to-face in real life. If and when that even occurs, I will not refrain from telling a Muslim face-to-face that Mohammed was a child-raping murderer.
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Just as I thought…
“I have not yet in my life had any opportunity to debate a Muslim face-to-face in real life. If and when that even occurs, I will not refrain from telling a Muslim face-to-face that Mohammed was a child-raping murderer.”
Right, because finding a real life Muslim, is such a hard thing in today’s day and age?
You have not done that in real life because you know there will be consequences, and you do it online because you can hide from them. So your internal rage is satisfied, but you are safe from repercussions.
“willfully denying” something is a stock phrase you and Daciple are fond of. You use it when someone disagrees with how you do things. You try to bend people to your will by using this as a cheap form of the fallacy of appeal to consequence of a belief – http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-consequences.html
It is also an example of the irrational conspiracy theorist characteristic #4. Fondness of using stock phrases. (Lesson 6 above).
Jesus did not insult the Samaritans, he properly answered the woman’s question that there was no proper or ideal place to worship because she asked that as a focal point to worshipping properly. He told her that the Father is in spirit, so on the mountain or in Jerusalem is irrelevant. You twist that scripture to try and justify your attacks on others, while acting the victim when we discern your true motives as an attack on you. There’s a word for that, it’s called hypocrisy.
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Black and White reasoning is called Logical Reasoning? Is that right Chainmaker? You didn’t just really say that, did you?
Hold up, I’m going to do a little Google search…..
…..
…….
………
………..
Uhm nope.
Flaws in reasoning:
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/05/18/cognitive-distortion-how-does-black-and-white-thinking-hurt-us/
http://atheism.about.com/od/logicalflawsinreasoning/a/blackwhite.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
http://courses.csusm.edu/fallacies/black&white.htm
http://www.clinical-depression.co.uk/dlp/understanding-depression/all-or-nothing-or-black-and-white-thinking-and-depression/
“All or Nothing, or ‘Black and White’ thinking is the thought pattern that allows us to generate a “flight or fight” response to danger. It is still needed in the world today, but not many times a day in relation to non-life-threatening stress, as so often happens with depression.”
Right there you have wikipedia, and educational institute that teaches logic explicitly saying that you, Chainmaker, are wrong.
It’s even linked to Depression.
You failed again, which is why you fail to use logic properly and that was already obvious by A Team exposing the failed reasoning you use.
Back to the drawing board for you Schizo-Boy
before you go, can you tell me how you linked someone else on some other blog calling you a Kettler, oops was that Black and White thinking that you deem to be logical?
F
A
I
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Very nice work there Kittie. You saved me time in debunking that piece of nonsense from Chainmaker, who not only cannot provide evidence for many of his claims but completely turns logic upside down and inside out, ass backwards idea’s of his own making. It’s all there in black and white, and while he might claim it’s an attack on him, anyone watching without paranoid rosey colored shades on can see it for what it is…delusional.
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I do not take the musings of random psychologists as Gospel.
2 + 2 = 4
2 + 2 does not = 5
That is the black and white, logical truth.
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However
2 times 2 is 4
4 times 1 is 4
I agree, despite this, that there is one truth
Your method of proving that is flawed
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Your logic is 2+2=5
Whether you consider me, or anyone else who gives you a lesson in real logic, a random psychologist, a psyscho, an internet lawyer or defamer, a plumber, electricial, or just a regular dude, or none or all of the above is irrelevant.
Your assertion that black and white reasoning = logic was thoroughly debunked by Kittie, and therefore you are wrong. Authorities and scholars on logic laugh at that assertion, which makes you even more wrong. Being wrong is something that should, at some point, be something you are used to. Alas, you are not, because you delude yourself into thinking it’s something completely different. Something of an imaginative wonderland.
Don’t let the truth stop you, or anything…
You bastardize logic, just like you do spiritual matters and your cherry picking of the Bible to justify the poison you spread is evident to mostly everyone, but you and others like you. Of course you all would like to believe you’re being persecuted for spreading the “truth”, but that’s just paranoia.
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Experts and scholars on logic from a variety of disciplines ALL universally disagree with you that black and white reasoning is real logic not just some “random psychologist” as you try to minimize it down to.
You are wrong, but you suffer from:
– perseverance (inability to withdraw when wrong)
– delusions of grandeur (think you know better than all experts in a wide variety of fields) and
– paranoia (think this is an attack on you)
therefore you will not see the error of your ways and persist in repeating the errors, not just here, but perhaps even in circumstances where grave danger can be brought onto others…I sure hope not, but I haven’t seen anything from you that might suggest otherwise. God be with you on this issue.
Here is yet another piece of evidence that you are delusional.
“Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument.”
That’s no attack, it’s the “black and white truth” of the matter 😉
Observe Chainmaker committing several of the characteristics of the irrational conspiracy theorist here.
When caught out by Kittie pinkie pie as being absolutely wrong in his assertion that black and white reasoning = logic, Chainmaker rationalizes this error away by minimizing it to some “random psychologist”.
As you’ve learned through Lessons 6 and 7, this is classical behavior for the irrational and deluded conspiracy theorist.
From Lesson 6:
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Irrational conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources. The fact that a claim has been made by anybody, anywhere, is enough for them to reproduce it and demand that the questions it raises be answered, as if intellectual enquiry were a matter of responding to every rumour. While they do this, of course, they will claim to have “open minds” and abuse the sceptics for apparently lacking same.
{Example, Chainmaker says what is fact to me may not be fact to you – relativism at work. That his belief that Toby=Dantalion is because WoWfan says so, Thinks black and white reasoning = true logic (a whim of his own making) and ignores that all experts on logic and reasoning say that notion is absurd is irrelevant.}
7. Inability to withdraw. It’s a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it.
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I think that black-and-white thinking is logical, and I think that it is scientific. I think that things are either true or false, either right or wrong. The scientific method assumes that there can only be one correct answer to any given problem. 5 hypotheses are made, 4 are falsified through experimentation, 1 is accepted as truth.
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“When caught out by Kittie pinkie pie as being absolutely wrong in his assertion that black and white reasoning = logic, Chainmaker rationalizes this error away by minimizing it to some “random psychologist”.
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Psychology is not a “hard science”, like mathematics, it is a discipline full of hypotheses that are impossible to prove, and full of people who give philosophical opinions that often contradict the philosophy of various religious doctrines.
I do not take the opinions of psychologists as gospel truth, even majority opinions, I apply my own logic and experience to determine what I will believe is the truth about psychology.
A few decades ago, homosexuality was listed as a mental iillness by the APA. That classification was removed simply by a majority vote, a black-and-white change occurred where the leaders of the American psychological community decided that what was once considered to be a fact would no longer be considered a fact.
I disagree with those psychologists, I believe that homosexuality is a mental illness, completely aside from spiritual morality, it is a mental paradigm that provides no natural benefit to a biological organism, it is directly opposed to the natural prime directive of every biological organism, which is the continued survival of the individual’s genetics. A mental paradigm that works against individual reproductive success and in turn works against the reproductive success of the individual’s immediate protective tribe/nation and in turn against the reproductive success of the entire species, is in my opinion obviously a form of illness.
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{Example, Chainmaker says what is fact to me may not be fact to you – relativism at work. That his belief that Toby=Dantalion is because WoWfan says so, Thinks black and white reasoning = true logic (a whim of his own making) and ignores that all experts on logic and reasoning say that notion is absurd is irrelevant.}
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As I have posted repeatedly to you:
What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist, that is not relativism at work, but for you to continue to willfully misrepresent my statement that “what is fact to me might not be considered fact to you” means that you are being dishonest.
I never claimed to believe that Toby is Dantalion simply based on Wowfan’s belief, that is another lie.
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” I think that black and white logic is true logic”
I know, which is funny how you can persevere on this erroneous belief in light of all evidence pointing in the opposite direction.
Lesson 6 and 7 accurately depict the irrational conspiracy mind behind that belief.
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“WoWfan the homosexual Wiccan figured out that Dantalion was Toby before most of the Christians ever did.”
I’ve said that the only evidence you present for your assertion was the website WoWfan presented. I’ve said that because I assert that you don’t know what a fact or evidence are. I am right about that, and have demonstrated it without question. I’ve said the rest of your “facts” were based on assumptions, nothing of which you could be specific about.
I’ve said all of this because like most of the others at the VC website, you were fooled by VC himself as well. When you were no longer useful to VC you were canned by VC.
That makes this whole fantasy of yours even more funnier.
Fact are objective. Facts are black and white 😉 You know, like it’s either a fact or it is not. A fact cannot -not- be a fact. I’m using your arguments in an accurate way here with facts as either black and white. A real fact is reproducible. Even if you are right, you don’t have facts. You claim fact but you cannot reproduce fact, therefore you don’t have fact. You may still be right, but you don’t have fact.
Saying that a “fact” for one is not a “fact” for another makes your assessment of facts “RELATIVE”
That makes you a relativist when it comes to facts.
For someone like yourself to assert there is only one objective universal truth, bastardizing facts as relative is hilarious.
This expose of your faulty thinking is also what motivated and originated the fallacious idea that I was being relative when I said I don’t believe that VC should try to profit from truth, but I can’t impost my belief on him. You used the logical fallacy of the slippery slope to attempt to extrapolate meaning from that statement in order to twist it around to label me a moral relativist.
That is what you do.
Inductive Logical Fallacies at work.
Objective examples from your own behavior that perfectly demonstrate inductive reasoning errors.
I am so glad you are here.
The assumptive, imaginary mindset that you lean on to base most of your conclusions has not served you well in life, that is my assessment. I believe I am right. I have demonstrated it by delineating parts of your behavior here that fit the criteria for said judgement. It is righteous judgement based on objectively reproducible bits of evidence.
I use evidence and value the scientific method.
Your brain works on logical fallacies and pseudo-scientific thinking.
One of us is right, we both can’t be. You are wrong 😉
BTW, your homophobia doesn’t surprise me either. It reminds me of that Gay Conversion minister John Smid who ended up coming out as a homosexual himself.
In his own words,
“I was completely unwilling to hear anything that didn’t fit my paradigm. I blocked out anyone’s life story or biblical teaching that didn’t match up with what I believed… Now that I am not submerged into one sided perspectives, I am open to studying and reading the scriptures for myself, I am finding so many rich truths that I wasn’t ever made aware of before.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/john-smid-former-ex-gay-minister-sexual-orientation-_n_1022417.html
His whole ministry he was trying to turn people away from being gay to simply come to terms that he was gay.
Note, I’m not suggesting you are a homosexual, just the parallel that he was fighting against something externally, when the whole time it was an internal problem he was struggling against.
Chainmaker did you watch the Social Network?
Do you remember the part when the actor playing Mark Zuckerberg is sitting in the bar with his girlfriend, just before she breaks up with him? They’re having a beer and he implies that he can make her life better by connecting her with the right social network (in real life), and she becomes offended by it.
She says to him, “you might go through life thinking people dislike you because you’re a nerd….”
never mind, I’ll let you watch. Hopefully this embed thing works:
If that doesn’t work, go here and see for yourself:
listen to the first 25s at least. He may believe that people reject him for one reason. She accurately explained the real reason though.
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Just looking over some of Chain’s comments here and the boy does tend to contradict himself many times over leading me to wonder if there are two different chains here, or maybe just the one going from two different modes of thinking in his brain. Not saying that he has any multiple personality disorder or anything even if I wouldnt be surprised if that was to be true. I guess I’m just curious about that.
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On Chainmaker,
The name he is using should be a major tip-off as to what his goals could possibly be.
He is a “Chain Maker”, “Maker of Chains”.
What kind of chains you might ask? Why, mental chains of course.
He is making these chains of mental enslavement in order to serve some type of a purpose, but that one seems to be unclear to me. Perhaps it’s in order to sway people into his convoluted way of thinking?
It seems that his form of mental enslavement is based on hatred and starting flame wars with people. His avatar probably has some type meaning to it, but I’m having a tough time interpreting it.
Here’s his avatar:
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Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become SLAVES TO RIGHTEOUSNESS.
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Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with The Best of Chainmaker Part 1 (Now in glorious screenshots!).
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LOL at the first two pics, unbelievable amount of cognitive dissonance being put on display there from Chain, and the last three do not surprise me from Tweeterfist, but apparently he likes to pull Chainmakers chain, so to speak. Actually like I told him above, I think he’s very gullible.
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 2:
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Ayaka, it looks like you’ve delivered a fatal blow to Chainmaker.
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 3:
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Hey thanks Ayaka, funny stuff there!
My favorite thought came from dull_flame:
“You, I don’t know you personally. But I’m sure that God will have some interesting things to say to you regarding you speaking for Him.”
Brilliant! This correlation between people supposing to know God’s or Jesus’ will or act in his name and then oftenly do evil things in his name – this appears to me as some major spiritual wrongdoing. I have the same thought regulary in many instances but never had a chance to place it so precise like dull_flame did. Looks like the VC gang has not chased away all good people from their site yet…
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 4:
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Ayaka,
after that first image one thing strikes me as significant. Chainmaker and his alter Daciple always go around justifying condemning others on the basis of keeping the commandments using John 14:15 as a baseline, but what about this commandment:
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor”
In the purest sense it means you shall not lie about another.
Chainmaker is notorious for doing such. He did it here, and his debate repertoire makes use of a singular tactic with several different deliveries. For one he usually tries to turn an argument you have correctly identified in his behavior around on you. For example, I noticed that as someone who claims to abide by Absolute Moralist like he does, his statement to the effect that what is “fact” for one many not be “fact” for another is actually a moral relativist position because facts, or true facts, are reproducible bits of information. Stating that they are not the same means they are interpretable and that makes them relative, which is what Chainmaker believes indicating a relativist standpoint. When this paradox was pointed out, it caused Chain to attempt to use the argument in reverse against his “opponent”. Those screenshots that Ayaka has shown above demonstrate the exact same tendency towards Pollyann, Amne, and FP, amongst other Christians.
The other branch of this same tactic (bearing false witness on your neighbor) that Chainmaker is constantly guilty of, is finding something his opponent has said, putting his own spin on it (adding imagination) to alter the meaning to something he can then condemn or label. It’s a straw man argumentation tactic. For example, I said that I believe his actions drove people away from Biblical truths rather than shed light on them. The actions of attacking someone first, and their subsequent retaliation that Chain perceives to be antagonism to truth, but really is antagonism to himself. When I said this, Chain used a slipper slope argument tactic to extrapolate several levels of additional meaning of his own making in order to say I called him a Satanist.
This is another example of how Chainmaker bears false witness on his neighbor.
When Chainmaker attacked Amne’s father, who wasn’t even a part of any discussion on VC because of Amne’s stance that her father was not a violent Muslim, to which Chain responded he wasn’t a real Muslim, you can see the “defamation” at work, the act of bearing false witness in full effect here as well.
Now lets look at John 14:15
It says,
“15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.”
One of the commandments is to not bear false witness. Chain breaks this one regularly. Therefore by his own conviction in the word of Christ, he is not actually keeping Christ’s(Gods) commandments and therefore cannot possibly be loving Jesus, and further does not have the Holy Spirit.
So I am actually 100% correct in my assertion that he is not doing any of what he is doing for God and Jesus, but for himself, and therefore is spreading a very negative view of Christianity and does not have the Holy Spirit within him.
When Chain reads this again, he will ignore the naked logic in this assessment and imagine that it is another attack on him. But it is not. It’s meant to help him open his eyes. It’s because I care. You see Chain? I care about you bro.
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after that first image one thing strikes me as significant. Chainmaker and his alter Daciple always go around justifying condemning others on the basis of keeping the commandments using John 14:15 as a baseline, but what about this commandment:
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lol @ you again saying I am Daciple
—————————————-
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor”
In the purest sense it means you shall not lie about another.
Chainmaker is notorious for doing such. He did it here, and his debate repertoire makes use of a singular tactic with several different deliveries. For one he usually tries to turn an argument you have correctly identified in his behavior around on you. For example, I noticed that as someone who claims to abide by Absolute Moralist like he does, his statement to the effect that what is “fact” for one many not be “fact” for another is actually a moral relativist position because facts, or true facts, are reproducible bits of information. Stating that they are not the same means they are interpretable and that makes them relative, which is what Chainmaker believes indicating a relativist standpoint. When this paradox was pointed out, it caused Chain to attempt to use the argument in reverse against his “opponent”. Those screenshots that Ayaka has shown above demonstrate the exact same tendency towards Pollyann, Amne, and FP, amongst other Christians.
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What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.
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The other branch of this same tactic (bearing false witness on your neighbor) that Chainmaker is constantly guilty of, is finding something his opponent has said, putting his own spin on it (adding imagination) to alter the meaning to something he can then condemn or label. It’s a straw man argumentation tactic. For example, I said that I believe his actions drove people away from Biblical truths rather than shed light on them. The actions of attacking someone first, and their subsequent retaliation that Chain perceives to be antagonism to truth, but really is antagonism to himself. When I said this, Chain used a slipper slope argument tactic to extrapolate several levels of additional meaning of his own making in order to say I called him a Satanist.
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You directly accused me of intentionally trying to lead people away from Christ:
“I don’t believe you’re trying to turn people to Christ. I believe you’re trying to turn them away.”
That is saying that I am a willful adversary(satan) of Christianity. I never said that you directly called me a Satanist but that your accusation is tantamount to calling me a Satanist.
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This is another example of how Chainmaker bears false witness on his neighbor.
When Chainmaker attacked Amne’s father, who wasn’t even a part of any discussion on VC because of Amne’s stance that her father was not a violent Muslim, to which Chain responded he wasn’t a real Muslim, you can see the “defamation” at work, the act of bearing false witness in full effect here as well.
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According to Amne, her father got caught up in some trouble with the U.S. government being accused of supporting violent Palestinian Muslims.
Amne brought that up, and I gave my point of view based on the Qur’an. I gave my view of her father, which is that, as a Palestinian Muslim, if he does not support war against the Zionist occupiers he is one of the hypocrite Muslims the Qur’an refers to who refuse to fight against those who make war on Muslims. I told Amne the same thing many times, that in my reading of the Qur’an it is obvious that the fundamentalist Muslims who war against Israel are following Mohammed’s commandments in the Qur’an, and those Muslims who refuse to fight the Zionists are hypocrites who Mohammed says will go to hell.
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Now lets look at John 14:15
It says,
“15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.”
One of the commandments is to not bear false witness. Chain breaks this one regularly. Therefore by his own conviction in the word of Christ, he is not actually keeping Christ’s(Gods) commandments and therefore cannot possibly be loving Jesus, and further does not have the Holy Spirit.
So I am actually 100% correct in my assertion that he is not doing any of what he is doing for God and Jesus, but for himself, and therefore is spreading a very negative view of Christianity and does not have the Holy Spirit within him.
When Chain reads this again, he will ignore the naked logic in this assessment and imagine that it is another attack on him. But it is not. It’s meant to help him open his eyes. It’s because I care. You see Chain? I care about you bro.
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I did not bear any false witness. I have given my honest opinions according to what I believe to be fact.
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” Self-deception involves convincing oneself of a truth (or lack of truth) so that one does not reveal any self-knowledge of the deception.
Self-deception calls into question the nature of the individual, specifically in a psychological context and the nature of “self”. Irrationality is the foundation upon which the argued paradoxes of self-deception stem, and it is argued that not everyone has the “special talents” and capacities for self-deception.[3] However, rationalization is influenced by a myriad of factors, including socialization, personal biases, fear, and cognitive repression. Such rationalization can be manipulated in both positive and negative fashions; convincing one to perceive a negative situation optimistically and vice versa. In contrast, rationalization alone cannot effectively clarify the dynamics of self-deception, as reason is just one adaptive form mental processes can take.” – “Self-Deceptive and the Nature of Mind” by Mark Johnston
“Self-deception is a process of denying or rationalizing away the relevance, significance, or importance of opposing evidence and logical argument.”
When you lie about others, purposefully or not, you are bearing false witness. You’ve lied about me for one, but not only me. You’ve basically done it to anyone who doesn’t -succumb- to you as an authority on what Jesus wants or said. You find a way to try and “defame” them, often it’s a massive stretch, other times you twist what they say to give new meaning. In all cased, you bear false witness. That’s not cool. Jesus said so, so it is certainly not cool, and Jesus doesn’t like it when you do that.
When you bear false witness you are not keeping God’s commandments, according to John 14:15 you therefore do not love Jesus and do not have the Holy Spirit within you and are a false prophet, or spiritual leader (as you like to think of yourself as {delusion of grandeur})
Don’t get angry at me, or attack me again (or go ahead and do that if you must) as I am just the messenger Chainmaker. It’s not an attack. I’m just bringing attention to parts of your mind that you are not aware of. How your actions and your words are paradoxical at the best of times, and just accusatory and belligerent at the worst of times.
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 5:
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Ok, this one is gonna be long…
First off, thank you Chainmaker for your respectable answer – I did not feel offended by it at all.
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That’s good to hear Chauk, it shows a level of maturity that many people, probably most people, do not have. I spit on your sacred cow. I gave my view that your spiritual belief is blasphemy against God, I said that you are worshipping a false pagan god and I denounced your guru as false and his teachings as false. I personally have had plenty of people tell me that what I hold sacred is a lie, I have heard Christianity(real New Testament Christianity), denounced by many Muslims, pagans, and atheists, but I don’t go screaming and whining about how hateful they are for daring to speak negatively about my beliefs, instead I continue the debate, just like you have done with me.
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Nope, it is not my real name and thus I do not identify with it at all. But nice that you asked, I for myself was much less polite in calling “you” Chainy without asking 😉 But I also hope this was out of politeness and not as a sidekick to relativize the mistake of using the word “Paki” (I have no provable reason to question your apology though).
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That remark was indeed mostly to do with the “Paki” mistake, I don’t care if you abbreviate my name, I’m glad you don’t care that I abbreviate yours.
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My current censoring criteria as pointed out above somewhere in the comment flow are:
“From now on I’m going to delete/not publish comments that
– contain explicit words of a certain level
– only contain stupid texts copied from the VC board
– have no real information value other that the author intended to derail the discussion”
You know, there where pornographic words in some texts from the VC forums that someone tried to publish here (with probably a good intend, however) I would not even use among my friends for fun (don’t know if that explanation really transports the message, but I don’t want to use these words myself, logically).
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That sounds fair to me. I’m not one to post porn or cuss people, so hopefully I can continue to speak my mind freely here which as a side effect is guaranteed to anger and offend many immature people.
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You would be surprised about how few things really are sacred cows to me and how much they align with your own (except for the instant christian salvation paradigm where we do not agree). Specifically you did not hit any of my sacred cows with your text, and even then it would be your Karma you pollute with it, not mine 😉
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My guru is Jesus Christ as portrayed in the New Testament, and my name for God is YHWH. Those beliefs are sacred to me. You stated Prabhupada as your guru and stated your name for God as Krishna. I would have thought that you would consider those beliefs to be sacred. I do not believe that attacking false spiritual beliefs brings any form of negative spiritual consequence to the proclaimer of truth.
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Thanks for the first part, second one is a wrong assumption of yours. This blog exists for more than a year and VC was no topic until last october (maybe as information source). You may want to check my topics or see where I was wrong during that time – I was several times and admitted it instantly in the comments section when asked. A thing I am not sure how to handle it, is if and how I should correct or enhance my own articles where I was wrong, but that only as a sidenote.
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I’m sorry I should have said “article” not “blog”, I read your other articles and understood that the entire site was not originally built around the VC disinfo topic.
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Thanks again and by the way: I’m a bit sorry that my extremists-statement hit you more than intended, I thought I managed to put a humoristic-ironic tone in that statement, probably my fault. As many other people who are spiritually evolved much more than I have stated (I guess there is even a scripture of Jesus stating this): Humor is a very good and reliable sign to identify the ones who really have God in their heart (I hope you guys forgive my free citing, I’m very bad in remembering things word by word, but quite good in visual and “coherence” remembering, to everybody his own talents).
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There is no need to apologize, my views are extreme in that I stubbornly hold to the fundamental doctrine of the Bible, and I do not attach a negative connotation to the word “extremist”. An ideological extremist is only bad if his ideology is bad. One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter, because people have different perceptions of morality.
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The first thing is VERY easy to detect for God’s children, as Blavatsky’s, Bailey’s and Crowley’s hate for God, Jesus, true love, compassion and empathy springs out of every syllable they put down. What is truly shocking for some and REALLY, REALLY important to spread and explain to the people online and in real life, is that these satanists, moral relativists and favorite sources of the occulte elite (of the Illuminati, Freemasons, all that secret rat pack) are the inventors and initiators of New Age, of the great channeling deception, of the satanist New World Order, the staged second coming and alien disclosure, the ground crew of the great snake! That is the real insight that thanks to many contributors to this comment section grew deeper and deeper in myself and substantially helped me to write my latest article. THANK YOU FOR THAT GUYS 🙂
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As a self-proclaimed child of God, you have just spit on the sacred cows of the many people who follow either Crowley, Blavatsky or Bailey.
Crowley was very much in-your-face with his moral relativism, but as many on VC, including FlixKandish and Wowfan, have expressed to me, Crowley’s Law of Thelema includes the command to love:
“Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Love is the law. Love under will.”
Crowley publicly positioned himself as the enemy of Christianity, said it was his mission to destroy it.
Bailey, on the other hand, preached a Jesus who was all about peace and love, and gave a view nearly identical to Prabhupada, and to you Chauk:
http://www.raherrmann.com/bailey.htm
“I dignify the teachings and the life of Jesus, and not that weird doctrin of salvation and supression of spirituality the churches created afterwards.” — Chauk
“The Tibetan has asked me to make clear that when he is speaking of the Christ he is referring to His official name as Head of the Hierarchy. The Christ . . . ; He does not belong to the Christian world any more than to the Buddhist, the Mohammedan or any faith. There is no need for any man to join the Christian Church in order to be affiliated with the Christ.” — Alice Bailey
“The concept of immortal souls and Karma is a thousand times more plausible to me than the concept of forgiveness of sins and this simple heaven-and-hell concept that the churches extracted from the bible” — Chauk
“”Our interpretation of sin and its penalty has been at fault . . . .” “Christianity has produced such sad, weary, and sin-conscious men.” “Theology over-reached itself with its ‘miserable sinner’ complex and its emphasis upon the necessity for purification by blood.”The question of evil is too large to elucidate at length, but it might be defined simply as adherence to *that which we should have outgrown, the grasping of that which we should have left behind*.” — Alice Bailey
“Master M., the Master K. H. and the Master Jesus are interesting Themselves closely with the work of unifying, as far as may be, eastern and western thought, so that the great religions of the East, with the later development of Christian faith in all its many branches, may mutually benefit each other. Thus eventually it is hoped one great universal Church may come into being.” — Alice Bailey
“I do think that the eastern spiritual traditions have kept a lot of true wisdom that has been lost in decades of jewish and christian religious brain-wash in the west” — Chauk
“Prabhupada considered Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed to be empowered representatives of God, describing them within his writings as pioneers of the same essential message of dedication to God with love and devotion” — Wikipedia
“. . . the Mahommedan faith will be found linked to the Christian faith because it embodies the work of Master Jesus as He overshadowed one of His senior disciples, a very advanced initiate, Mahomet.” — Alice Bailey
“. . . BEFORE THE ADVENT OF CHRISTIANITY MEN RECOGNIZED HIM[Jesus] AS THE BELOVED KRISHNA OF THE HINDU FAITH.” — Alice Bailey
Now Chauk, you can and most likely will continue to deny the extremely obvious similarity here that borders on being a perfect agreement between the doctrine and beliefs of Alice Bailey and the doctrine of beliefs of Prabhupada and Chaukeedaar, but I won’t deny it, I will expose it.
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There we surely agree. I would only like to refine my words: I do think that Islam as a religion and the Koran as its source contain largely immoral instructions. This does not exclude the possibility and fact of muslim people who are very moral in their actions and thoughts. I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like christians, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition – tools that our Father gave us to deal with the serpent and its lies. I have met good muslim brothers worldwide and I judge everybody by its actions. If they repent from suppressing their women, spreading hate and war and death, and really concentrate on the love of Allah, they have also a chance to live on a better planet and/or universe one day. That I am sure of.
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What makes a Muslim a Muslim? I can answer that. A Muslim is a person who believes that “There is one God and Mohammed is his prophet”, and by extension that the Qur’an is the Word of God given to Mohammed as Mohammed claimed.
So Chauk, what you have said here is that Muslims can only progress spiritually by turning away from following the immoral Qur’an, and listening to their own hearts instead.
You did in fact spit on the Muslim’s sacred cow by saying that the book they consider to be the Word of God contains immoral instructions. You say that they should repent of suppressing their women and spreading war, but to the true fundamentalist Muslim what you consider to be “suppressing women” is to them “protecting women from immorality by keeping them in the role God ordained for them”, and what you consider to be spreading war is to them “battling against the immoral infidel governments who oppress and kill Muslims and oppose God’s ordained holy Sharia Law.”
You have said that the solution for Muslims to be righteous to to turn from true, fundamental Islam, to disobey the Qur’an, to disobey the Word of God according to Mohammed. You said that the solution for Muslims is to turn from unrighteous Islam, you said Islam is immoral, and that is HATRED of Islam, according to many fake moderate Muslims and all true real deal fundamentalist Muslims, and according to me, a fundamentalist Christian who also hates Islam.
You state here that Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, and American Indians[animist shamanism], can all progress toward salvation by not accepting what their old scripture says about how to be saved, by only listening to their own hearts. I will return to that thought.
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I’m completely incapable of seeing where my statement is hateful. Thats perhaps because I do not feel hateful towards any of that (sometimes I sure am, but really not when I wrote that). Evil makes me feel sorry for the people and entities committing it, and raises a strong sense of wanting to defend the casualties of that evil. I do not think God gave me the power to better all humans on earth, but he gave me the power to better myself, to use my free will to decide well. I say that to explain why I do not feel angry about the bad: I respect their free will to be bad. I only wish that they have no chance to harm the good and have to live among themselves until they progress. Thats my world view as of now. Sometimes I’m angry but I work hard to not let it become hate.
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Please do not confuse hatred for an immoral belief system with hate for individuals who follow that belief system, or hate for an immoral action with hate of the individual who performed the action. Please do not confuse hatred for immorality with hatred for the free will that allows people to choose immorality.
I can hate the action of child molestation, and I can hate the Islamic religion that condones that action, and I can direct that hate for evil into positive action to defend the casualties of that evil. The positive action is to speak out for the millions of extremely young girls in Muslim households around the world who are being molested by men old enough to be their grandfathers, and to identify the cause of their exploitation, which is the evil religion Islam.
If I have turned any one person away from Islam by speaking the blunt harsh truth about the fact that Mohammed was a child molestor and Islam condones child molestation, then I have potentially prevented some little girl from being molested in the future. I might anger Muslims in the process of speaking the truth about the corrupt mockery of God that is Islam. I might arouse hatred against myself by speaking hatred against Islam. I do not care. Islam is evil. My hatred of Islam is righteous hatred.
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
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I do agree that we share the same superficial prejudice 😉 about Islam. I do towards many of the instructions of Islam as a concept – not as the sacred cow of many people who find positive inspiration in that religion in legitimate areas. Sounds a bit elevated, I know…
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Here is a different translation:
“Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.” — Romans 12:9
I believe it is hypocritical to spit on the immorality of the sacred cow of the Muslims, and then say “but I don’t want to offend those people who find positive inspiration in that immoral religion”
It doesn’t sound “elevated” to me, it sounds like wishy-washiness, and it sounds like cowardice. It is very black-and-white, Islam is either the One Truth of God, as the Muslims claim, or it is a Corrupted Lie of Satan.
There is no gray area. Those who seek compromise with evil are infected with the evil themselves.
“He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD” — Proverbs 17:15
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“…while you call on Lord Krishna the Hindu god”
I call him as the highest and loving creator and source of everything, our Father in the heavens. Why does it matter to you what name I use if I address the right spirit? Are you really that limited in spiritual cognition? I’m sure you are not!
What if I say that crying the name “Krishna” out very loud once when I was under attack of some aetheric/interdimensional entity I was saved from that threat immediately? May that name be so wrong if the concept is right?
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It matters to me because by using the name Krishna to address the Most High God you make it brilliantly clear that you are not addressing the right spirit. I am that limited in my spiritual cognition. Your rejection of the fundamental Judeo-Christian doctrine of blood redemption for sin is equal to rejection of the Judeo-Christian God. According to you the God of the Bible who hates and judges evil and in justice demands that the sin-debt be paid IS NOT GOD. To you, those traits ARE NOT GODLY. You and I do not worship the same God, and that is why you will blaspheme by using the name of a pagan god to refer to the Most High, because you are not referring to the same God as I am.
“And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.” — 2 Corinthians 11:12-15
I have more than enough experience with the astral realm and its entities myself, having formerly been involved in the occult myself. I have also done plenty of research into the experiences of other people with the astral realm and its entities.
Satan presents himself as an angel of light. If the evil people of the world can plan and execute a “false flag attack” a la 9/11 then so too can the evil entities of the astral realm. The name of Krishna did not save you, your concept of who Krishna is did not save you, the entity who attacked you is satisfied that you are deceived, that you are sufficiently turned away from the true path of salvation through the blood of Jesus. When you called for Krishna that demon relented in his attack because his mission to deceive was accomplished.
There are “exorcists” in every religious belief worldwide, Muslims, Christians, Mormons pagan/Hindu/Buddhist/Wiccan/shaman/animist/New Agers. Only the name of Jesus Christ spoken with belief in his authority as
the One and Only Son of God whose bloods atones for sin can truly repel the spiritual forces of darkness, everyone else is being fooled.
I would recommend you to read this free book:
Betrayed By Her Guardian Angel
http://www.staciespielman.com/FreeDownload.htm
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“…and equate this Hindu god to Jesus”
Sorry, that was not me, that was Srila Praphupada (“Actually, it doesn’t matter – Krishna or Christ – the name is the same”). Even though I love this dedicated angel of God like my own father I AM NOT HIM 😉 . And for the sake of sharpening your skills of thinking: Srila Praphupada equated the name, not the entity. You fell for his implication he may have put in his words…
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Chauk, you have equated Lord Krishna to Jesus just as your guru Prabhupada did. Please do not be deceptive. Prominently displayed with standard Hindu art depicting the very young and very blue Krishna:
“Young Lord Krishna, Incarnation of God on Earth some 5’000 Years Ago.” — Chaukeedaar
Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, the incarnation of YHWH on earth.
“BEFORE THE ADVENT OF CHRISTIANITY MEN RECOGNIZED HIM[Jesus] AS THE BELOVED KRISHNA OF THE HINDU FAITH.” — Alice Bailey
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“…and you also believe in karma and reincarnation which are the beliefs that are the foundation of the racist caste system of Hinduism…”
Thats right. Like the bible was the foundation of the inquisition. Can you see the worthlessness of your argument/unexpressed implication?
“The lower castes of India are discriminated against with the rationale that karma has punished them for their past evil deeds by their birth as lower caste. Thus, all men are not born equal under God, or the gods.”
I completely agree. As proof, here is an older comment of mine on that subject on Zen Gardner’s Blog:
“Just look what the same dark forces have done in India to the true teachings of the vedas, like karma, which resultet in the evil cast system… Secret societies coming from the pharisee tradition have sucessfully undercut any positiv aspects of religious and spiritual traditions almost worldwide!”
http://www.naturalmedicine.com/blogs/wondering/2011/09/30/the-blue-beings-occult-programming/
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I do not believe my argument is worthless. You believe, as i do, that Islam as commanded in the Qur’an condones misogny and child abuse. Many liberal Western Muslims claim that the misogny and child abuse of modern Muslims is a corruption of the true commandments of the Qur’an, that the Qur’an does not actually condone misogny and child abuse.
I believe those liberal Muslims are either willfully ignorant or outright liars, and are in general not true by-the-book literalist Muslims, in my opinion, and in the opinion of fundamentalist Muslims, these liberal Westernized Muslims who speak for the rights of women and children are fake apostate hypocrite Muslims, who claim Islam but by their actions reject it. The poster children for this kind of fake Western Muslim are the VC posters Hexa now known as Hex, and Amne1984 now known as AstralGemini1984. The Muslim Truthseer is acutely aware of the anti-Qur’anic blasphemy of those two fake Westernized Muslims.
All that to say, a religious text might advocate a certain evil, and those who claim to follow that religious text might contradict their claimed religious text and oppose that same evil.
By the same token, a religious text might oppose a certain evil, and those who claim to follow that religious text might contradict their claimed religious text and condone that evil.
Hypocrisy is common to humanity.
So, it IS NOT obvious that there is a direct comparison between the Inquistions[that occurred in a timeframe of a few hundred years]of the Catholic Church[that is one faction of the wide world of self-proclaimed followers of Jesus Christ] and the Caste System of the ENTIRE HINDU CULTURE going back THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
The caste system is based fully upon the idea of reincarnation and karma, indeed, the caste system is the logical manifestation of those ideas.
http://www.usc.uwo.ca/clubs/hindu/hinduism/4.html
“This caste system has a powerful religious sanction. In a late hymn of the Rig-Veda, one of Hinduism’s most sacred scriptures[the oldest Hindu scripture — CM], there is described the emergence of four social classes (varnas) from the sacrifice of a primeval man at the time of creation. From his head appeared the priests and teachers (Brahmins); from his arms, the warriors (Kshatriyas); from his trunk, the merchants, artisans, and farmers (Vaishyas); and from his feet, the menial laborers (Sudras). This fourfold system probably does not reflect the true structure of Hindu society at any time in history. It may well have been created by the Brahmins many centuries ago to solidify their position in the caste system.
But, whatever its origin, the varna system has served for about 2,000 years as a model and a divine sanction for caste. Just as the scriptures state that one’s varna is determined by karma, so the majority of Hindus feel that one’s position in the hierarchy of castes is a direct result of one’s behavior in previous lives. If one performs the duties of one’s caste (jati-dharma) diligently, one may improve one’s caste position in a future rebirth. Thus, the discontent engendered by the inequalities of the caste system serves as an incentive for even closer adherence to the system.”
The Bible was not the foundation of the Inquistion, the Inquistion was performed in direct opposition to the commands of the Bible.
“I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore ‘put away from yourselves that wicked person'” — 1 Corinthians 5:9-13
That verse is clear, Christians have no duty to enact political or legal judgment those outside the faith, as the Inquisitors judged Jews and pagans, and for those inside the faith, the judgement to be executed is to “not keep company with” or “put away from yourselves” the sinful, not to burn them at the stake.
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“You express hatred of Islam, where Prabhupada did not.”
If we can agree on the fact that I do not express hatred about Islam, but ethically grounded reservations about many instructions of it, I agree with that finding of yours. It might be shocking for some but when I call someone “my guru” I do not leave my own essence of reason at the door.
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You call immoral the instructions of Islam from the Qur’an pertaining to the treatment of women and children, and pertaining to the commands to violence. I am quite sure you hate the treatment of women and children in Saudi Arabia by Sharia Law. In reality, in fact, the Qur’an cannot be separated from Islam, the Qur’an is the foundation of Islam.
In my opinion, which I believe to be fact, you do actually hate specific commandments of the Qur’an and by extension you do hate the Qur’an in entirety, because all of the Qur’an is considered to be the Word of God by true fundamental Muslims and so to hate part of it is to hate part of the commands of God according to true fundmental Muslims and so you hate part of Islam according to true fundamental Muslims and to hate part of God’s commandments is to claim that God is imperfect and to hate God.
In the opinion of true Muslims, and in my opinion, you hate Islam, whether or not you yourself have come to terms with and accepted that fact.
It’s very black and white, you either accept every command of Mohammed in the Qur’an and Sunnah derived from sahih hadith as being the command of God, or you do not and you are an infidel on your way to hell as described in the Qur’an.
If you have not left reason at the door when you took Prabhupada as guru, then I implore you to listen to logical reason.
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“Prabhupada preached the same blasphemous One World Religion as the Freemasons do, in slightly different form.”
I think A-Team called that crippled logic you use here “jumping to conclusions” (thanks A-Team, you’re the mentor)! If preaching that there is only one highest, creational and all-loving God and that we can advance in life by building a constant conscious connection with our Father is equated with “you are your own god”, “do as thou wilt”, “Jesus is just another ascended master”, then I must warn you that you are about to work into the hands of the deceivers of this world. I leave it by this free warning, the choice of listening into your heart or not is yours.
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I do not believe that I have “jumped to any conclusion”, I think that i have logically and methodically come to a certain conclusion about Prabhupada and you based on my research and knowledge of the doctrine preached by Alice Bailey and the uncanny similarity of that doctrine to the doctrine of your guru Prabhupada and you.
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“The point of equating pagan gods to YHWH or Jesus is to blaspheme.”
Sorry, “blaspheme” is no category I can and want to think in. I don’t live in the medieval, do you?
“Equating Krishna to Jesus is the same blasphemy as the Masonic equation of Osiris and Baal to YHWH as Jah-bul-on, their not-so-secret-anymore name for God, the Great Architect as they call him.”
Jumping to conclusions plus straw-man argument (Prabhupada equated the name, maybe the spirit in his intention, but not the entity).
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Listening to your own heart, from the Bible from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_depravity
Summary of the doctrine
Total depravity is the fallen state of man as a result of original sin. The doctrine of total depravity asserts that people are by nature not inclined or even able to love God wholly with heart, mind, and strength, but rather all are inclined by nature to serve their own will and desires and to reject the rule of God. Even religion and philanthropy are wicked to God to the extent that these originate from a human imagination, passion, and will, and are not done to the glory of God. Therefore, in Reformed theology, if God is to save anyone He must predestine, call, or elect individuals to salvation since fallen man does not want to, and is indeed incapable of choosing God.[4]
Total depravity does not mean, however, that people are as evil as possible. Rather, it means that even the good which a person may intend is faulty in its premise, false in its motive, and weak in its implementation; and there is no mere refinement of natural capacities that can correct this condition. Thus, even acts of generosity and altruism are in fact egoist acts in disguise. All good, consequently, is derived from God alone, and in no way through man.[5]
This idea can be illustrated by a glass of wine with a few drops of deadly poison in it: Although not all the liquid is poison, all the liquid is poisoned. In the same way, while not all of human nature is depraved, all human nature is totally affected by depravity.
Nonetheless, the doctrine teaches optimism concerning God’s love for what he has made and God’s ability to accomplish the ultimate good that he intends for his creation. In particular, in the process of salvation, God overcomes man’s inability with his divine grace, though the precise means of this overcoming varies between the theological systems.
A number of passages in the Bible are used to support the doctrine, including (quotations are from the English Standard Version except where noted):
Genesis 6:5: “The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
Genesis 8:21: “And when the LORD smelled the pleasing aroma, the LORD said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done.
Job 15:14: What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?
Job 15:15: Behold, God puts no trust in his holy ones, and the heavens are not pure in his sight; how much less one who is abominable and corrupt, a man who drinks injustice like water!
Job 25:4-6: How then can man be in the right before God? How can he who is born of woman be pure? 5 Behold, even the moon is not bright, and the stars are not pure in his eyes; 6 how much less man, who is a maggot, and the son of man, who is a worm!”
Psalms 51:5: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.”
Psalms 58:3: “The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.”
Ecclesiastes 7:20: “Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.”
Ecclesiastes 9:3: “This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead.”
Jeremiah 17:9: “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?”
Jeremiah 13:23: (NIV): “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.”
Isaiah 64:6 “We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away”
Isaiah 64:7 “There is no one who calls upon your name, who rouses himself to take hold of you, for you have hidden your face from us and have made us melt in the hand of our iniquities.”
Isaiah 64:8 “But now, O LORD, you are our Father; we are the clay, and you are our potter; we are all the work of your hand.”
Mark 7:21-23: “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
John 3:19: “And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil.”
John 6:44: “[Jesus said,] ‘No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.'”
John 6:64-65: “[Jesus said,] ‘But there are some of you who do not believe.’ And he said, ‘This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.'”
John 8:34: “Jesus answered them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.'”
Romans 3:10-11: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.”
Romans 3:23: “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”
Romans 8:7-8: “For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
1 Corinthians 2:14: “The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.”
Ephesians 2:1-3: “And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience – among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.” (our depravity being emphasised in the concept of being “dead”; only something external -i.e. God- can give a dead man life)
Titus 3:3: “For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another.”
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“John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me”
I respect that (said) statement of Jesus very much, but surely in another sense than you do. I wonder very much about all the poor humans that where born BEFORE Jesus and could not look into the future and thus had no chance to “come to the Father but through Jesus”. As well as the poor humans that never came in touch with his teachings after him due to geographical issues. Spiritual considerations are a very important tool for me to detect false teachings. For me it is a 100% percent clear that Jesus meant his spirit of love, trueness and faith that needs to be lived to come to the father. OR we do not directly come to our Father after this live and world, but after several evolutionary steps in-between where everybody knows Jesus quite naturally and thus can surrender to him. Your biblical world view is unfair, illogical and simply – spiritually immature.
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If my worldview condemned every individual who never had the opportunity to hear of the god of Israel YHWH who is the Creator of all that exists, every individual who had never heard of his Son Jesus who died for their sins, then my worldview would not be unjust, but would mean that YHWH is not merciful. But YHWH is merciful, very much so:
Acts 17:16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[b] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 IN THE PAST GOD OVERLOOKED SUCH IGNORANCE[in other translations:God winked at ignorance], BUT NOW GOD COMMANDS ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHWERE TO REPENT. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”
32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.”
If a person is ignorant of the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, God might wink at their ignorance, and judge them based on the faith they have in the limited knowledge that they have. The rejection of the sacrificial blood of CHrist after the knoeledge of it means definite condemnation.
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“Matthew 26:26-28 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.””
Basis of the churches blood and carcass cult, but not by his fault. I know these parts that very well because I was raised catholic (now you see the damage this cult can do to someone 😉 ). With such scriptures people should focus on the meaning behind the words to really understand him.
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“Theology over-reached itself with its ‘miserable sinner’ complex and its emphasis upon the necessity for purification by blood. — Alice Bailey
Not by Christ’s fault did he present himself as the sacrifice to cleanse the sin of man?
I of course disagree, I believe it was not a fault of Jesus to do that, but the culmination of the righteous mission of his first appearance.
Catholicism is a false cult, I agree, many of its doctrine are unBiblical, its doctrine that the Eucharist is the literal cannibalistic consumption of the flesh and blood of Jesus is not Biblical, it is heresy. That is one false doctrine among a vast multitude preached by that cult.
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By accepting “the Bible” as God’s unaltered word you fall for the early writing manipulations of humans, as I said before.
There are whole bookshelves that proof that claim. And please don’t push here the cherry-picking argument – If you would take the whole bible literally, especially the old testament, you would become a very inconsequent and schizoid mind that would conduct very serious crimes against your fellow humans. As I now think of it I can hardly believe you are that naive.
If not and you’re only playing games, congratulations from the loughs you’re getting from us!
Even the new testament has some flaws:
“About the contradiction of how Simon Peter found out that Jesus was the Christ:
(a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew16:17).
(b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41).
Which is it now? How can such information about the holy Jesus be inaccurate? If the writers can’t even decide how Simon Peter found out that Jesus was the Christ, how can these men who cant even get a simple information correct, be obliged to write other things in the Bible?…When caught in obvious contradictions, bible believers simply reinterpret the bible. When caught again, they reinterpret it again with another twist. Bible academics will pull their hair out attempting to rationalize away these contradictions with complex answers that exhaust the reader instead of enlightening them. It’s almost like observing a high-priced lawyer giving a “Chewbacca” defense — where the aim of the argument is to confuse the
jury. The simple truth is that many of these contradictions are in fact contradictions.”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_true_that_there_are_so_many_contradictions_in_the_Bible#ixzz1kQPp7HoO
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I believe that there are mistakes in various translations of the Old and New Testaments, but no mistakes in the original texts as they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. I believe that translation mistakes can be identified through research, and quite easily identified in this internet age when we can easily google a Biblical passage and look at the original Greek and Hebrew and multiple translations into other languages.
As many “contradictions” as you can point out, I can provide explanations for, and I do not believe that they require complex answers, just simple logic.
“How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p164b.html
(a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)
(b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)
Andrew told Peter that they had found the Messiah. It was the Holy Spirit that told him that the Messiah was the Son of the Living God. Christ confirmed that fact.”
I do not believe that my belief in the Old Testament leads me to any crimes against my fellow humans.
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One question you did not answer and I don’t want to be picky because of that, but perhaps you want to invalidate A-Teams argument by yourself about being an irrational conspiracy theorist… 😉
“Question (with the huge probability that you will not answer it, as shown by the A-Team): Is there ANY prophet, spiritual teacher or guru that is NOT false in your eyes?”
“God bless ya Chauk, I’ll be praying for ya.”
Thank you, same to you!
Hare Krishna, Chaukee
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I thought it was obvious in my last post.
Jesus the Messiah, or Christ, Emmanuel, the Righteous One promised by YHWH the God of Israel and all that exists, the Son of God who taught us the right way to live and offered himself as the sacrifice for all eternity to pay for our trangressions, our sins, when we do not live righteously as God commanded us to live, is the prophet, teacher and guru who is not false. 🙂
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“You did in fact spit on the Muslim’s sacred cow by saying that the book they consider ”
Chainmaker is showing that he cannot differentiate between the disgusting act of “spitting” and the respectful act of disagreeing …. respectfully.
There is a difference. One day, hopefully soon, you will make the distinction.
You can disagree without being disgusting.
Lastly, here’s something to ponder. I’ll try hard not to make the connection and hope that maybe the idea of this may sink into your mind.
You believe that Bailey and her neo pagan followers mix in a little bit of truth in order to poison it with lies. Specifically they mix in the Bible to link it with pagan and new age practices, correct? To the outsider they might see their use of various Christian ideas and your use of various Christian scriptures to be the same, correct?
Then it is also possible that Bailey and others have bastardized other traditions in the very same vain, is it not. Maybe not to you, but then for others who believe they are in pursuit of truth, just not your truth, maybe they can see how Bailey and company have imposed lies on truth from a variety of sources. You might not, and that is due mostly to confirmation bias. You hold an idea in your mind on what the scriptures truly communicate, and you might be even more accurate if you managed to lose your internal rage and anger, which have nothing to do with the real message of Jesus. Therefore, when you read the lies these people super impose on the Bible you see it as only an attack on the Bible.
That last part was your clue.
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Yup, disagreeing and insulting is different.
How Muslims are coming into every Chain post is more telling
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A small disclaimer before Chain tries to manipulate what I said and tries again to call me a moral relativist so he can try to justify calling me Satanic, or something of that nature eventually; I don’t believe truth to ultimately be relative.
I qualify the statement “just not your truth” with the belief that you are not in this “game” to spread truth, but rather to spread your internal rage and anger which has adequately been identified by multiple people, on multiple forums you have debated on.
You hide behind the Bible by cherry picking verses and scriptures that you can re-interpret to justify it.
Jesus says that if you love him you will keep his commandments. I’m not sure which of the others you may have broken, but I am 100% correct in my assertion that you bear false witness. I can prove it in “black and white” right here, and in fact have. The photo’s that Ayaka has shared have proved you’ve done this on the VC as well.
Therefore by scriptural definition you do not love Jesus as you broke the commandment.
We are told that if we repent from our sins, truly repent, and accept Jesus atoning sacrifice we get the Holy Spirit, but you show no signs of acknowledging that you have broken the commandment or truly are remorseful and repent from it. You are therefore, by scriptural definition, without the Holy Spirit.
If I were you, and you truly believed half of what you write. I’d correct myself, because as per the scriptures you are not going to Heaven.
That’s not an attack. I am not calling you a Satanist. I’m just trying to help you save yourself from you, by scripturally identifying where you are going wrong. To attack me in return, for this piece of truth, is your prerogative should you chose to do that, but it will not vindicate you.
Only repentance from breaking a commandment may.
Ultimately, the choice is yours.
Free will, and by rejecting the truth you remain “willfully ignorant”.
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No, I won’t be acknowledging that I have given any false witness, because I have not given any false witness.
I do believe that you have given false witness about me and about yourself.
Bailey had no need to bastardize traditions other than Christianity, no neo-pagan/New Ager has any need to bastardize pagan belief systems, because they already agree with pagan belief systems.
They have a need to bastardize true fundamental Christianity that keeps itself separate from the various pagan belief systems and condemns all of them.
In the Bible Jesus claims that there is One Way to salvation, not Many Paths, not that Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims can all be saved if they reject what the Bible says about salvation.
That intolerant and exclusionary Biblical doctrine is that salvation is not granted to those who reject Jesus as the One and Only Way to salvation through his sacrifice on the cross. That “separateness”, that clearly delineated black-on-one-side-and-white-on-the-other-side line that is drawn between those who will be saved and those who will not be saved is what the pagans seek to bastardize.
They seek to bastardize fundamental Christian doctrine, because they hate that doctrine. The doctrine is that they will not be saved if they reject Jesus’ atoning sacrifice. Not only will they not be saved, but Christian doctrine says they have one life to live and after they die they will not get another chance. So they hate that doctrine too, and seek to replace it with reincarnation.
So, what was considered “evil” to Bailey?
http://www.raherrmann.com/bailey.htm
“When we are *separative in our attitudes* or *do anything which produces separation*, we are transgressing a fundamental law of {God}.” (7, p. 355). “It is the sense of separateness, this emphasis upon *personal and individual good, which is the nature of sin*.” (7, p. 356). “Separateness is hatred, aloneness and division.” (7, p. 356).
“Why this triumph of the {Christ consciousness} must always be spoken of in terms of religion of church-going or ORTHODOX BELIEF is one of the incredible triumphs of the forces of evil.” (ROC, p. 11)
Fundamental, intolerant, exclusionary Christian doctrine is evil according to Bailey.
That “separateness” has been hated by many more people than just Alice Bailey.
John 15:18-25 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’”
2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[b]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
“I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Therefore, “Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”
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“You did in fact spit on the Muslim’s sacred cow by saying that the book they consider ”
Chainmaker is showing that he cannot differentiate between the disgusting act of “spitting” and the respectful act of disagreeing …. respectfully.
There is a difference. One day, hopefully soon, you will make the distinction.
You can disagree without being disgusting.
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I am not the one who molested the little girl, Mohammed did. I agree, that is disgusting. I disagree with that disgusting behavior and I consider Mohammed to be not a historical figure worthy of respect, but a disgusting historical figure worthy of disdain, no better than Adolf Hitler.
I am not Muslim, I owe Mohammed no respect, I owe it to God, myself, and everyone else to be truthful and express how disgusting Mohammed’s behavior and commands were.
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“No, I won’t be acknowledging that I have given any false witness, because I have not given any false witness.”
of course you won’t and I didn’t expect you would. You have the
– inability to withdraw, even when wrong and suffer from
– perseverance: per·se·ver·ance [pur-suh-veer-uhns] Show IPA
noun
1.
steady persistence in a course of action, a purpose, a state, etc., especially in spite of difficulties, obstacles, or discouragement.
even when wrong….
in spite of your perseverance it’s all in black and white 😉 that you have borne false witness, and by biblical definition then you do not love Jesus, have not repented, cannot have the Holy Spirit.
I’m just the messenger, hate me if you want, but it won’t help you.
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The point you are missing Chainmaker, is that Bailey lied about a lot of things, not just one 😉
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You do understand A Team, that you are the one who has chosen to keep addressing me, after many people stated that they would rather hear your Episode 10.
So A Team, it could easily be turned around, and it could be said that you have no ability to withdraw.
Quite a funny tactic you are using, “perseverance”.
Unless I stop responding to your posts which are directed to me and promote what I consider to be many lies about me and misinterpretations of the Bible, then I am guilty of “perseverance”.
To be fair, anytime you respond to me, I should accuse you of “perseverance”.
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Chainmaker, I’ve taken it upon myself to use you as a real life example of how not to induce logical fallacies and to revere true logic, evidence, fact and objectivity. You as an example here, has been better than I could have hoped for.
I have never said I was done with you (17 days ago) and persist in addressing you. I am not done with you. I’ve said that a few times now, and you keep providing me with examples of poor uncritical thinking to expose. You are the perfect subject, and I’ve said it many times that I am happy you are here and are unable to stop responding to me.
I am.
🙂
I’ve also noted that when your made up “facts” don’t stick, and your false dilema’s and appeals to consequence don’t have the bullying effect you are after, you try to turn my accurate arguments on you around on me.
You won’t be successful in silencing me by claiming I am persevering in my debunking of your lack of logic either, because I have expressly stated that I am all for doing this and have encouraged you to continue. Nay, I’ve made it so you have no choice in continuing. Remember, you’ve claimed on three separate occasions that you were done with me, but can’t help but responding. I know why. I made it that way. I cannot be bullied by you Chainmaker. Your bullying will be in futility, and will only prove you are out of tactics in, again, attempting to turn an accurate assessment of your behavior around on me. If you have no shame you will continue with this tactic. I say you will continue with this tactic 😉
You’re limited in your approach and mostly because you refuse to study what real logic, argumentation and objective evidence really are. Furthermore, you refuse to do so because then you would have to acknowledge where in your own internal plot that you have gone wrong and adopted improper ideas, or beliefs.
You’re preserving your own ego. It’s got a strangle hold on your mind.
Ego’s may be useful for a lot of things, like physical self preservation in the presence of true danger to oneself. Ego’s become problematic when it gets a hold of the drivers seat and convinces you that you are something that you are not 😉
See, not black and white there either!
Keep it coming…
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I did say I was done talking to you, which I shouldn’t have said, but it was said after being annoyed by your claim to see this as a game along with your childish pestering of me to answer a question I had already answered more than once.
I later said that I now have the time and desire to continue to debate you.
Sooner or later I will run out of time, but this has been a productive use of time I believe.
The argument can easily be turned back onto you.
The “perseveration” argument could be applied to either side of any long-running debate on the internet.
Oh, you responded to me again?
PERSEVERANCE haha gotcha!!!!You are a nutcase!!!
lol
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“I did say I was done talking to you, which I shouldn’t have said”
– impulsiveness; one of the characteristics of borderline personality disorder, like black and white thinking
Why are you going back to calling me names again? Losing control?
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“When you called for Krishna that demon relented in his attack because his mission to deceive was accomplished.”
So Chainmaker, you spoke with that demon did you?
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I don’t speak to demons.
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Lol.
Chainmaker is a demon.
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Chainmaker,
“When you called for Krishna that demon relented in his attack because his mission to deceive was accomplished.”
Me,
“So Chainmaker, you spoke with that demon did you?”
Chainmaker,
“I don’t speak with demons…”
Indeed, just as I thought. You are using your imagination again.
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I am indeed using my imagination to explain what happened to Chauk in this demonic attack. I was not there, but I have formed an opinion about what happened based on my own experiences and those of others, and firmly based on Biblical doctrine.
According to the Bible, there is no other possible explanation as to why Chauk’s demon stopped attacking after Krishna was called upon.
Chauk rejects the power and authority of Jesus Christ as the One and Only Son of God whose blood atones for sin, and instead of calling upon Jesus Christ Chauk called upon the Hindu god Krishna.
Krishna, according to the Bible, is a false god, along with every other god that is not YHWH the God of Israel. Thus, any spirit who would respond to the name Krishna when that name is called is an evil spirit.
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This is the same “imagination” that said “I didn’t go to jail for stealing a car” when it was claimed you went to jail for “Grand Theft”, the same “imagination” that believed he was called a Satanist when pointed out, using scriptural definition, that you are leading more people away than to the truth. The same imagination that believes one boogie man from VC to be a dozen people, with 24 hours a day and 7 days a week to torment one of your “best friends”. The same imagination that claims he is Christlike and is told to hate others who reject Jesus atonement.
Right….carry on.
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PS, I doubt you were confronted with a real demon, or external entity. I think it’s regression of anger and self persecution trying to come to the surface. You’re battling your own inner demons, which is more accurate IMO.
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Instead of addressing the logic I employed to make a judgement on what happened in the case of Chauk’s demonic attack, you try to attack my credibility through lies.
You have provided no “Scriptural definition” that I lead people away from Christ. You said:
“I don’t believe you’re trying to turn people to Christ. I believe you’re trying to turn them away.”
You said that you believe I am an imposter willfully leading people away from Christ. That is saying that I am an adversary(satan) of Christ, tantamount to calling me a Satanist. I never said that you directly called me a Satanist.
I believe that Toby makes many different accounts, but I do not believe that he has “24/7” to harass people since we all need sleep, and I never claimed Daciple was harassed “24/7”, I only claimed he has received a steady stream of harassing emails in the past.
I never claimed to hate any individual who rejects Christ’s atonement, and never claimed to be told to hate any individual. This is what I wrote to Chauk:
“Please do not confuse hatred for an immoral belief system with hate for individuals who follow that belief system, or hate for an immoral action with hate of the individual who performed the action. Please do not confuse hatred for immorality with hatred for the free will that allows people to choose immorality.”
You are a liar A Team, and it is not very nice.
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I attempt to “attack” (paranoia) your credibility (you think you have some) through lies, by accurately addressing that you imagined the motives of the “demon” that attacked Chauk, confirmed by YOU yourself that you imagined this?
That’s a new stretch to your persecution complex, don’t you think?
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I have addressed the logic you use to come to your conclusions many times;
Inductive Reasoning Fallacies
I’ve even gone to the trouble of identifying exact ones in very specific cases. You’ve ignored most of them, like a good irrational conspiracy theorist would be expected to do, and gone forward to repeat the same error (perserverance, inability to withdraw, etc).
You’ve been a good subject. I know many people who are reading this are learning a lot.
Prove I have lied about anything. Prove it with words I’ve said that are untrue, and not products of your imagination.
If you cannot, then you must be the liar…again.
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“The same imagination that claims he is Christlike and is told to hate others who reject Jesus atonement.”
I have never claimed to be told by Jesus or anyone else to hate people who reject Jesus’ atonement.
I have specifically written more than once that I hate evil actions and belief systems, not people.
You lied.
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Barry wrote:
Sorry, this is just an observation. Chainmaker, whoever you are, you have a brilliant mind, it is almost frightening.
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Thanks for the compliment Barry, no need to apologize.
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I now see how you lure with just the right amount of truth to stir up desire within the viewer. You also play the victim very well, but the poison you inject. Wow!
It was a little hard to see while the argument was between you and The “A” Team, but the way you built up this new argument with Chaukeedaar exposed you. The subtle threat:
“I hope that doesn’t mean that you are thinking about censoring viewpoints like Vigilant does…”
You know there was no need, as Chaukeedaar defended, the criteria has already been laid out.
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Well I actually hadn’t read where the criteria for censorship was laid out, thanks to Chauk for reposting for me.
One man’s “poison” is another man’s “medicine”. It depends on the man’s perception of truth. Once upon a time, many men considered arsenic and mercury and leeches to be medicine. They were wrong. I don’t believe that what I said was poison, I believe it is truth. You are free to disagree, luckily on this blog we can all disagree without being censored.
Either you are right, and what i sais is poison, or I am right, and what I said is medicine. We cannot both be right. It is black and white.
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Then you (charmingly) use common ground of how you both see certain beliefs as a door, before it turns sinister. You start:
“I think you are obviously a very intelligent and inquisitive person Chauk, and I think you did a good thing in creating this blog to tackle important questions regarding the VC website. I very much respect your respect of free speech in letting people, even those who you deem to be extremists, to voice their beliefs freely.
I am glad that you have been able to recognize that the ideas of Blavatsky, Bailey, and Crowley represent Luciferian evil, and that the huge push for New Age Eastern philosophies in the West since the 60s is advanced according to their ideology. At least according to you, “most of it”.”
But then it leads to this:
“Although you reject Islam, you are not so different from these Freemasons who desecrate the Truth of Jesus Christ by saying that the Bible is equal to the Vedas.”
The rest has to be seen for itself. So you are a Christian… really? Then why use such sly tactics. If you believe a person’s beliefs are wrong, then tell them how you see the truth in a sincere way. After all, I thought it was the truth that sets people free. Have you studied the way Jesus preached the gospel? I promise you for one, his words were not as lengthy, because he had nothing to prove and there was power behind his words. To be truthful, you’re going to be here for a long time.
The “A” Team, I hope you can see how much you have been slowed down.
————————————————–
Sly? Insincere?
I am on trial here for being for being TOO sincere, for being TOO in-your-face, for being TOO judgmental of the beliefs of others, for being “so hateful arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh”
I was not untruthful.
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. — Matthew 10:16
Jesus did have something to prove, and he did prove it. I agree, there was power behind his words, and just as much power behind his actions.
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One thing I don’t understand… Chainmaker is not your real name (I hope) so you could just walk away from all of this and get on with your real life (again, I hope). But instead, you come back time and time again. Why does this mean so much to you?
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Why would I walk away from any of this? I have debated on other message boards using this name(but that Chainmaker on David Icke forum is not me) and I chose to come to VC and debate using this name. Why does anyone choose to debate anything on the internet? Why don’t they all walk away?
I actually believe what I say Berry, I actually believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for my sins, and I actually believe that Mohammed was a child-molesting false prophet.
I want to express my beliefs, that is why I do what I do, and I have a command to spread Jesus’ message about how to be saved.
Mark 16:15,16 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
I also have a command to expose the evil teachings and actions of evil false prophets:
Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them.
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“I actually believe what I say Berry, I actually believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for my sins, and I actually believe that Mohammed was a child-molesting false prophet.”
Chainmaker, it is not healthy for you as a Christian when you can write a sentence like this and be OK with it. It also says a lot about what consumes you. So you want to bring people out of darkness… by teaching them darkness – because that is what you have just demonstrated here – you have said, “I actually believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for my sins..”, while in the same breath planted this thought: “Mohammed was a child-molesting false prophet.”
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Barry, I think that maybe you didn’t read this:
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. — Ephesians 5:11
Teaching people the truth that Mohammed was a child-molestor is not teaching people darkness, it is exposing darkness.
Teaching people darkness is what Mohammed did, when he taught that Jesus is not the Son of God and did not die on the cross for our sins, and taught that it is okay to molest children.
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“Either you are right, and what i sais is poison, or I am right, and what I said is medicine. We cannot both be right. It is black and white.”
You can be right about somethings and not about others. There’s the distinction to you. It’s not black and white. You are not always going to get 100% on every exam you take, be it in any subject, perhaps even your driving exam. It may be possible and may have happened in some cases, but it’s likely you’re not going to be 100% right on all exams, but you can still get high scores and maintain a high GPA. You can pass by getting higher than 50% in many cases, some courses require a 60% baseline, others a 70% baseline for pass/failure. If you got 71% on a test that was 70% to pass, you would have passed, but you would have missed being completely correct by 29%…not black and white.
Black and white thinking is wrong.
It’s associated with depression as Kittie has shown. There are more references, but I think presenting them to you, even if of highly credible sources would be fruitless.
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I think that black-and-white thinking is logical, and I think that it is scientific. I think that things are either true or false, either right or wrong. The scientific method assumes that there can only be one correct answer to any given problem. 5 hypotheses are made, 4 are falsified through experimentation, 1 is accepted as truth.
I think that your comparison to an exam percentage is more than a little faulty.
If the test has 100 questions each worth 1 point, and you missed 29 questions for 29%, you were wrong 29 times. You had 100 black-and-white choices, and you failed 29 black-and-white choices.
Generally speaking, the people who pass an exam with a score of 71% are not considered to be excelling, and they will not get good scholarships, they will not get good job placement if their overall score is a 71%
Do you want a doctor performing surgery on you who got a 99% on his exam, or would you prefer the doctor who got 71%?
If I believe that Mohammed was a child molesting, adulterous, slave-raping, thieving, pillaging bloody warlord and the Qur’an is not the Word of God but is the word of evil Mohammed and the evil demon he talked to, and if I believe that the action of publicly stating those beliefs in a theater of voluntary religious debate is sour-tasting medicine for Muslims and a sour-tasting vaccine for non-Muslims…
then I am either right about that…
or I am wrong and Barry is right when he said that I “injected poison.”
We can’t both be right simultaneously.
The doctor who prescribes a daily dose of arsenic is either precribing medicine, or poison.
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” I think that black and white reasoning is logical”
That pretty much explains all anyone needs to know about you. Despite that scholars and experts on logic all universally disagree with you, you persist with your error
From lesson 6 on irrational conspiracy thinking:
2. Relentlessness. They will always go on and on about a conspiracy no matter how little evidence they have to go on or how much of what they have is simply discredited.
6. Inability to tell good evidence from bad. Irrational conspiracy theorists have no place for peer-review, for scientific knowledge, for the respectability of sources.
7. Inability to withdraw. It’s a rare day indeed when a conspiracy theorist admits that a claim they have made has turned out to be without foundation, whether it be the overall claim itself or any of the evidence produced to support it.
You see, you fit the definition therefore it’s not attack to accurately assign you the proper label; irrational conspiracy thinker.
per·sev·er·a·tion (pr-sv-rshn)
n.
1. Psychology
a. Uncontrollable repetition of a particular response, such as a word, phrase, or gesture, despite the absence or cessation of a stimulus, usually caused by brain injury or other organic disorder.
b. The tendency to continue or repeat an act or activity after the cessation of the original stimulus.
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Chainmaker, in order to sell a lie a little bit of truth must be mixed in. That truth that you think you carry within you might be true in itself, but there can also be some lies mixed in with it that you have adopted as true. Therefore, it is not black and white. Despite that black and white thinking is universally disregarded as true logic, you persist in your insisting that it is. That is where others can get an insight into the perseveration that has captured your mind and won’t let go.
Black and white thinking is dangerous.
Fallacy: False Dilemma
Also Known as: Black & White Thinking.
Description of False Dilemma
A False Dilemma is a fallacy in which a person uses the following pattern of “reasoning”:
Either claim X is true or claim Y is true (when X and Y could both be false).
Claim Y is false.
Therefore claim X is true.
This line of “reasoning” is fallacious because if both claims could be false, then it cannot be inferred that one is true because the other is false. That this is the case is made clear by the following example:
Either 1+1=4 or 1+1=12.
It is not the case that 1+1=4.
Therefore 1+1=12.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html
“I think that black-and-white thinking is logical, and I think that it is scientific. I think that things are either true or false, either right or wrong. The scientific method assumes that there can only be one correct answer to any given
problem. ”
No it does not. It hypothesizes a theory and sets out to prove the theory is right by also disproving the null hypothesis. You don’t know anything about science as evidenced by the fact that you don’t know what a “fact” is. In the scientific methods facts must be able to be reproduced, that is a characteristic of what makes science something to value, when a discovery is reproduced by another scientist following the same steps, then the finding becomes more valid. The more this happens, the better the validity.
This same process is tried and put to the test in (at least in practice) to objectify evidence in a court room.
You’ve shown a lack of respect for scientific reproduction of facts. Rather, you lean on a relativistic standpoint of “facts” assuming that what might be true for one is not for another. Without knowing, or being “willfully ignorant” you continue on that lame and wrong line of thinking.
“I think that your comparison to an exam percentage is more than a little faulty.”
In exam situations, participants can be more right than others by virtue of answering more questions correctly, but all students can pass if they meet a set criteria. Not all students are universally 100% right on all exams.
Same applies here.
To sell a lie, you have to use a bit of truth.
For example, you do this quite well.
You use a little bit of Biblical truth to sell the lie that you are commanded to hate and spread anger and rage in others.
That’s false.
You can be a little bit right in the use of some scriptures, but you have also demonstrated that you are more than a little bit wrong by twisting others.
That’s where the spirit of discernment helps others. They can’t be bullied by your false dilema logical fallacies and appeal to force or emotion when you selectively interpret scriptures for them then qualify them by presenting a false dilema and appeal to consequence by saying they are “willfilly ignorant” if they don’t agree with you.
That’s what you do.
I can spot it a mile away because I am highly trained in real logic and real science and it’s abdundantly clear that you are not and you talk out of your rear when it comes to these matters.
Despite being wrong, you persist.
– You use common logical fallacies
– You ignore real scientific fact and evidence
– You persevere in your errors
all characteristics of irrational conspiracy theorists.
“If the test has 100 questions each worth 1 point, and you missed 29 questions for 29%, you were wrong 29 times. You had 100 black-and-white choices, and you failed 29 black-and-white choices.”
Precisely. They still passed but were not all RIGHT or all WRONG.
😉
“Do you want a doctor performing surgery on you who got a 99% on his exam”
That’s a poor analogy because there to pass written exams, even in medical school, you don’t need to have 100% of the answers right.
“If I believe that Mohammed was a child molesting, adulterous, slave-raping, thieving, pillaging bloody warlord and the Qur’an is not the Word of God but is the word of evil Mohammed and the evil demon he talked to”
Then that is your right to believe, and if you want to help a Muslim understand this, you present it accordingly so you don’t offend him leading to a fist fight or for him to completely shut you off. You have to understand you’re talking with a human being who, like yourself, may be clinging onto notions that are false and has been convinced of them through years of conditioning. You can’t go in there fists swinging and hope to punch the truth into someone. But that is what you do, and you are CONSTANTLY met with resistance.
Again, you fail to understand it’s your
DELIVERY that causes problems.
“and if I believe that the action of publicly stating those beliefs in a theater of voluntary religious debate is sour-tasting medicine for Muslims and a sour-tasting vaccine for non-Muslims…
then I am either right about that…
or I am wrong and Barry is right when he said that I “injected poison.”
We can’t both be right simultaneously.”
Actually you can.
You may be right about Mohammed being wrong, but you are wrong in how you speak the truth. Barry is right about that.
You persist because to you, it’s more important to anger people, than to help them.
I feel sorry for you in that way.
“The doctor who prescribes a daily dose of arsenic is either precribing medicine, or poison.”
Bad analogy because a doctor does not prescribe arsenic. Not realistic.
A Doctor who prescribes heart medication because his client has heart disease knowing that this medication will eventually lead to liver disease, and has done his due diligence in communicating this to his patient with the patient refusing to change his lifestyle and accepts the future consequences for some immediate relief of heart symptoms is neither all right or all wrong.
He is doing what he can in the interim to save the heart, while his patient is exercising free will and understanding that eventually the medication might ruin his liver. If the doctor has done due diligence and told the patient that his lifestyle is ruining his health, but the patient refuses to change and opts for the medication that will eventually ruin his liver, then calling the patient names (like you do on scriptural matters) isn’t going to change the patient. The doctor patiently and thoroughly explains the consequences of said action, and now that the patient is educated, it is up to him to act accordingly.
Luke 2:5-6
5 If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them.” 6 So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.”
Your analogy is unrealistic because it doesn’t exist in real life. Mine is spot on because it’s a daily occurrence.
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Black-and-white thinking is not equal to “false dilemma”, you set up a strawman there.
———————————
Either 1+1=4 or 1+1=12.
It is not the case that 1+1=4.
Therefore 1+1=12.
——————————–
That is “false dilemma” thinking, not black-and-white” thinking. I have not used a “false dilemma”.
Now this is funny:
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“I think that black-and-white thinking is logical, and I think that it is scientific. I think that things are either true or false, either right or wrong. The scientific method assumes that there can only be one correct answer to any given
problem. ” — Chain
“No it does not.” — A Team
——————————
Yeah…..actually, the scientific method does start with the assumption that there can only be One Truth. 1+1 = 2 and if 1 + 1 could also = 7, then that would be a chaotic existence that the scientific method could not be applied to, you could not falsify anything.
————————–
You’ve shown a lack of respect for scientific reproduction of facts. Rather, you lean on a relativistic standpoint of “facts” assuming that what might be true for one is not for another.
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The lies are getting tired A Team. I will post this yet again for you, maybe you will stop lying about my views this time.
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
————————————–
You use a little bit of Biblical truth to sell the lie that you are commanded to hate and spread anger and rage in others.
That’s false.
You can be a little bit right in the use of some scriptures, but you have also demonstrated that you are more than a little bit wrong by twisting others.
—————————–
It is not false that I am commanded to hate evil.
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
It is not false that exposing evil causes anger and hatred in those who love evil.
“This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed”. — John 3:19,20
“And you will be hated by all men for my name’s sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 10:22
I have not twisted any Scripture. Instead, you have ignored Scripture.
—————————————
“If the test has 100 questions each worth 1 point, and you missed 29 questions for 29%, you were wrong 29 times. You had 100 black-and-white choices, and you failed 29 black-and-white choices.”
Precisely. They still passed but were not all RIGHT or all WRONG.
😉
————————————————–
Yes, they were ALL right, on 71 questions, and ALL wrong, on 29 questions. A margin of error was allowed. It’s black-and-white.
——————————————–
Then that is your right to believe, and if you want to help a Muslim understand this, you present it accordingly so you don’t offend him leading to a fist fight or for him to completely shut you off. You have to understand you’re talking with a human being who, like yourself, may be clinging onto notions that are false and has been convinced of them through years of conditioning. You can’t go in there fists swinging and hope to punch the truth into someone. But that is what you do, and you are CONSTANTLY met with resistance.
Again, you fail to understand it’s your
DELIVERY that causes problems.
You may be right about Mohammed being wrong, but you are wrong in how you speak the truth. Barry is right about that.
——————————————
I disagree. The Old Testament prophets and Jesus and the New Testament apostles did not mince words when condemning evil actions and evil belief systems.
Of course am continually met with resistance, read John 3:19.20 again.
I can’t force the truth into anyone, and I do not desire to force anyone to agree with the truth. I only desire to continue to speak the truth, and everyone else can choose whether to hate it or love it. Censoring the ugly truth about false belief systems and false prophets to try to have some “respect” is wrong.
Warren Jeffs is another disgusting child molesting cult leader, I will not refuse to call Warren Jeffs what he is in order to have “respect” for his followers. If I refuse to speak the truth about Warren Jeffs to one of his followers in reality I have disrespected them by saying that they are not worthy of the truth, they can handle the truth so I won’t tell it to them.
—————————————–
You persist because to you, it’s more important to anger people, than to help them.
I feel sorry for you in that way.
—————————————–
It is most important to fully expose the evil, and that causes hatred and anger in those who love the evil and hate the light. They choose whether to help themselves by realizing that their belief systems are false and repenting, or refusing to admit their belief systems are false and continuing to love the darkness. Most will not repent, most will meet the person speaking the truth about their evil belief system with strong resistance. That’s the Narrow Path vs the Wide Path.
————————————
Luke 2:5-6 If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them.” So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.”
If everyone is welcoming your message, you are not preaching the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Chainmaker says,
“Black-and-white thinking is not equal to “false dilemma”, you set up a strawman there.”
An Authority on Logic says
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html
>>>>>Fallacy: False Dilemma
>>>>>Also Known as: Black & White Thinking.
Calling it a “straw man” is another example of you failing to turn an argument on me.
Chainmaker, you have a lot to learn.
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Chainmaker you’ve never been in the position to put the scientific method to work, that is very obvious to me.
Furthermore your assumption that facts are different between people, show relativity and that is not scientific.
The Scientific method starts out with an assumption and then tries to prove it with facts.
“Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.[1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[2] The Oxford English Dictionary says that scientific method is: “a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.”[3]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method
It does not assume there is one truth.
“Note that this method can never absolutely verify (prove the truth of) 2. It can only falsify 2.[17] (This is what Einstein meant when he said, “No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.”[18]) However, as pointed out by Carl Hempel (1905–1997) this simple view of scientific method is incomplete; the formulation of the conjecture might itself be the result of inductive reasoning. Thus the likelihood of the prior observation being true is statistical in nature[19] and would strictly require a Bayesian analysis. To overcome this uncertainty, experimental scientists must formulate a crucial experiment,[20] in order for it to corroborate a more likely hypothesis.”
It is a method.
“Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. ”
“The scientific process is iterative. At any stage it is possible to refine its accuracy and precision, so that some consideration will lead the scientist to repeat an earlier part of the process.”
You find me one respected scientist that says “The Scientific Method assumes there is one truth.”
You’re ignorant on science and it’s method.
You’re ignorant on proper use of logic. You largely use inductive reasoning fallacies to spread your “truth”
You’re ignorant on what constitutes a fact
You’re ignorant on the uses of objective words like defamation and misuse the word to cry persecution.
You are paranoid to imagine these are attacks on you.
Experts and scholars disagree with you that black and white thinking is true logic.
You are wrong
You are wrong about a lot of things.
Get angry if you must. It won’t change that you are wrong.
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An Authority on Logic says
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/false-dilemma.html
>>>>>Fallacy: False Dilemma
>>>>>Also Known as: Black & White Thinking.
Calling it a “straw man” is another example of you failing to turn an argument on me.
———————————————
I believe that using “black-and-white thinking” as a synonym for “false dilemma” is a mistake.
If there are only 2 options, then black and white thinking cannot be a false dilemma. Saying that “Islam is evil so Hinduism must be good” is a false dilemma, but it is not black and white thinking.
There are many belief systems other than Islam and Hinduism, and I believe that both are evil, that is black and white thinking.
———————————————
The Scientific method starts out with an assumption and then tries to prove it with fact. It does not assume there is one truth.
——————————————–
You are wrong. The scientific method starts with an assumption and then tries to prove it with fact, and what is fact? FACT IS TRUTH.
There is only one true fact about what is the answer to 2 + 2. The scientific method seeks to find those one true facts as answers to many questions in many fields of study.
——————————————-
“Note that this method can never absolutely verify (prove the truth of) 2. It can only falsify 2.[17] (This is what Einstein meant when he said, “No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.
———————————————
The scientific method cannot directly prove what is truth, it can only disprove what is not truth. The goal of the scientific method remains, it is to find the truth through trial and error, starting with the assumption that there is only One True Answer to any question about the nature of reality.
———————————————–
You find me one respected scientist that says “The Scientific Method assumes there is one truth.”
——————————————-
Why bother wasting time? It is scientifically accepted fact that there is one true answer to the question 4 + 3. That is obvious, that basic logic is the foundation of science.
——————————————
Furthermore your assumption that facts are different between people, show relativity and that is not scientific.
——————————————
The lies are getting tired A Team. I will post this yet again for you, maybe you will stop lying about my views this time.
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
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There’s no point going on and on about black and white reasoning with you. You’re perseverance and inability to withdraw in the face of conclusive evidence is clear by now.
You subscribe to it. It’s been shown to be a major characteristic of Borderline Personality Disorder, depression and has been totally denied a true logic by experts and scholars.
You keep telling us they’re all wrong, and pretend there is nothing wrong about that.
Maybe it has something to do with the fact that you believe you are Christlike and can not make any errors, and while this is futile because I’ve seen people tell you this before to no avail; you are not Christ, you are not God.
You’re fallible.
You’re wrong about your belief on what constitutes real logic.
Carry on…
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Every Christian is supposed to be a “Jesus Mimic”, but that doesn’t make Christians infallible. I am not divine, never claimed to be.
I agree with you, “fasle dilemma” is a faulty thought process.
But I do not believe that “black and white reasoning” is a proper synonym for “false dilemma”.
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This is the third time I have noticed “Chain” never has anything to say until someone post something that damages his credibility beyond recognition. It is then he shows up & post these long rants to bury damaging evidence within the post.
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My dear harper, I have indeed spent many posts here defending against the untrue allegations against me made primarily by Femalepharoe and A Team.
In the process, I have given my spiritual worldview and debated it, I have spread the messages that I wish to spread.
I hope you might actually read my latest “long rant” AKA “debate response” with Chauk.
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Seems to be the case.
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Out of the one or two rants I have read of yours that happen to be one. You could care less about the allegations made against you here. All you want to do is rant about Muhammad. That type of stuff is irrelevant to me to a certain extent. I said up top that I have no interest in your claims, or your aggressive spiritual worldview. I can’t get past your religious aggression. With that being said i’ll past.
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I first posted here because I cared about the allegation that Femalepharoe made against me, the allegation that I am a racist.
I addressed that allegation.
Now what we have here is a contradiction:
“I have noticed “Chain” never has anything to say until someone post something that damages his credibility beyond recognition.”
“You could care less about the allegations made against you here. All you want to do is rant about Muhammad.”
Harper, which is it? Do I have nothing to say unless someone is making allegations to try to damage my credibility, or do I not care about the allegations?
It seems to me that you are confused.
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You don’t care for the most part ! When it’s damaging you distract with long rants. Your religious aggression is a whole another thing !
You can tell you have a point to prove. It cracks me up the way you start off as if you are responding to The “A” Team….you start off all cool, and in the next instant you go into an all out rant. It goes something like this
” I am here to defend myself, the sun shines bright, today is a good day ” Then it take a total left turn * In Kanye’s voice * ” Beyonce had one of the best songs/video’s of all time ( your religious rants) ” O, o okay that’s not what we were discussing but alrighty then ! lol.
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Before I ever came here, Femalepharoe posted here attacking me by misrepresenting my views and condemning my methods. A Team has alleged that my “religious aggression” means that I am an imposter who seeks to lead people away from Jesus. The conversation has become mostly all about whether or not my views and methods are moral or immoral.
If I am going to be involved in a debate about myself, I am going to take the opportunity to fully express myself. I do have many points to prove, and an overall message to spread, I have an agenda.
I already said pretty much everything I know and believe about the VC website and associated drama, if you want to hear some more VC drama then tell A Team to quit procrastinating and post the promised mind-blowing evidence about something or other.
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Gotcha ! Pretty much what I thought.
My religious views are pretty basic. I consider myself a Christian, but I respect many religions, religious, and spiritual beliefs etc etc
Chaukeedar pretty much summed it up for me
“This does not exclude the possibility and fact of Muslim who are very moral in their actions and thoughts. I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like christians, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition……”
Therefor your pov as far as I see it serves no purpose for me. In no way am I saying other’s wouldn’t find interest in the discussion. This is where I am coming from so you know.
” The conversation has become mostly all about whether or not my views and methods are moral or immoral ”
As I stated my views are pretty basic. I let the heart judge. We all have the ability to use common sense. With that being said, I think it’s safe to say your views & methods are not very WWJD !
That’s what you call “contradiction” in the biggest form
Nice chatting with you 🙂
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I allege, and have proven, that you use the Bible to justify something not biblical and inside of you, the spread of your anger and hatred that has nothing to do with being Christlike, as you have proclaimed for yourself; the delusion of grandeur you suffer from.
I have pin pointed your problem.
You know when you say people hate you for telling them the truth, in this case you are right. You see me attacking you for telling you the truth about you. It’s not accurate. I’m just a messenger. I have no emotional affiliation with telling you the truth.
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harper, according to the Bible your spiritual beliefs about non-Christians being saved are false and according to the Bible your heart is desparately wicked and is not a good place to go to determine what is the truth.
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Chainmaker according to the bible John 14:15
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
you do not love Jesus because you have not kept his commandments (among the broken, you bear false witness) and therefore do not have the Holy Spirit.
“according to the Bible your heart is desparately wicked and is not a good place to go to determine what is the truth.”
Indeed.
Don’t become a Fred Phelps, Chain.
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I have not given false witness, and I do attempt to follow the commands of Jesus in my life.
You on the other hand, have repeatedly lied about me.
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“I have not given false witness”
Oh but you have.
Self Deception is the worst kind of deception. You really are unaware of the real reason why you’re an outcast.
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Ooops, meant to have been put here – ‘seems to be the case’
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Additonal comments on Chainmaker:
“You sure talk a lot for someone who is a Kinder Surprise Christian.” – recure
CHOCODOOBIE!!!
Photo of Chainmaker:
Oh and “Kettler” (LOL, I mean Kettner),
http://www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com/terms/grand_theft.html
Grand Theft Definition
Grand theft is the crime of taking someone else’s property against their will with the intent of permanently depriving them of the property.
In order to be considered grand theft, the total value of what was taken must exceed a certain dollar amount. The value of the property stolen to constitute the crime as grand theft varies by locale and other specifics.
The term “property” in the grand theft definition can include money, labor, real, or personal property that lawfully belongs to another individual or group of individuals.
Grand Theft vs. Petty Theft
When the value of the stolen property does not exceed the specified dollar amount, the crime is considered petty theft. The law in all jurisdictions draws a legal distinction between petty and grand theft.
In most cases, petty theft is a misdemeanor crime that is punishable by no more than one year of incarceration and a maximum fine.
Most states consider grand theft a felony crime that carries the possibility of a much harsher penalty. The specific punishment for the felony crime of grand theft will often depend on the applicable state laws and the type of theft that took place.
Degrees of Grand Theft
Many jurisdictions classify grand theft crimes by degrees which indicate the severity of the criminal act. The degree of grand theft is often predicated by the value amount of the property that was stolen.
For example, in a given jurisdiction a fourth degree grand theft charge may involve a total $1,000 value of stolen property, whereas a first degree grand theft may involve stolen property valued at $10,000 or more.
The value amount that is associated with each degree, or level of offense, is determined by state and local law and can vary significantly by location.
Examples of Grand Theft
There are many acts which can be considered grand theft. They include:
•Shoplifting – defined as taking property, goods, or services from a place of business – can be considered grand theft if the value of the stolen goods exceeds the specified dollar amount.
•Vehicle theft is also considered grand theft as the value of most motor vehicles exceeds the value limit ascribed to petty theft.
•The taking of a firearm is considered grand theft and may be punishable by harsher penalties than grand theft of other goods similarly valued. The laws for grand theft of a firearm are often harsher due to the type of property stolen rather than the value of the property.
Grand Theft on the Rise
There are a few types of grand theft that have been on the rise in the United States. Credit card fraud, internet fraud, identity theft and the like are all white collar crimes for which an offender may be charged with grand theft.
It is estimated that 25 million Americans become the victims of consumer fraud, often considered a grand theft offense, each year.
When a person is charged with grand theft involving white collar fraud, they often face the same penalties as individuals charged with grand theft crimes involving tangibles like motor vehicles or merchandise from a business.
Screenshots of site:
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My name is not “Kettler” or “Kettner”.
Why did you decide to educate us all on what constitutes Grand Theft?
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Probably because Grand Theft does not = stealing a car like you had imagined it meant. Just a guess. 😉
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Of course, out of all the objects in the world to steal and be considered “grand”, only two objects are specifically listed in that description, one of them being “vehicle”.
Yes, a truly massive mental breakdown occurred when I made that assumption days after having first scanned this page.
It’s understandable though, in the absence of anything else to attack me with, other than “it’s hateful to tell the truth that Mohammed was a child molestor, you are so hateful arrggghh”, then resurrecting this weak attack must suffice.
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Exaggerating again are you? It’s not healthy going from one extreme to another, haven’t you heard?
Of course it was an error, a consistent one that you make showing that internal perceptions of yours don’t equal external representations. It was just an insight into your mind. When facts elude you, you make them up.
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Not much of an exaggeration, judging by the fact that we have a whole article about Grand Theft posted in an attempt to smear me.
I never said it was not a mistake.
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You believe that it was an attempt to “smear” you because you cannot accept the obvious; that your mind fabricates meaning where none exist.
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No, I would say that the whole post there is meant to mock, ridicule and smear me, complete with a funny picture.
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I know you would say that. It’s because you suffer from paranoia and a persecution complex.
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Yeah…I don’t really think there’s any paranoia involved.
Ayaka wrote:
“Also, the banning of Adam C. Madison was one of the best days of my life. I used to want to get the urge to reach my hand in the computer screen and strangle the living hell out of the bastard.
As for Chainmaker, Bible thumpers like him piss me off. I’ve had many problems with those people throughout my life.
I get great joy out of the misery of people I hate and Adam C. Madison was one of them.”
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Hey, look when I wrote it.
I was pissed off at the time because of VC’s unfair treatment of users that question. People are known to say a lot of things when they get pissed, okay.
It was a depressing time for me.
Yeesh.
And YES Chainmaker, I was paranoid at the time thanks to people like YOU always telling me I’m going to hell for everything I say, think, or even do. Can you believe the number of stuff I had to throw out just to please you fundamentalist types. Now I pretty much own nothing. Thank you, fundamentalist! Mr. “I am a Jesus mimic.”
According to people like YOU, everyone who doesn’t follow YOUR personal ideas of Christianity is going to hell. You’ve bashed Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and even other Christians, which you consider to be “fake Christians’. AND WHO ARE YOU TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO BELIEVE?!
No wonder why Chirstians are hated so much and have such a negative reputation. It’s because of fundamentalist like you.
I sometimes sit there and ask myself “What would Jesus think?”. I’m pretty sure that Jesus taught out of love and respect, not hatred. It doesn’t take an idiot to figure that one out.
As for the sane Christians (Your so-called “fake Chrisitans”), I feel pretty sorry for those people because they aren’t taken seriously when they mention their beliefs because the fundamentalist have made ever Christian look like they are crazy to the mainstream eye. When I mean sane Christians, I mean ones who preach out of love, not hate. I have not any problems with those types of Christians. It’s the fundamentalist, which I called “Bible thumpers” in the comment you quoted from, that I have problems with.
and here’s the comment where I mentioned my mental confilct in great detail:
“It looks like I’m not the only one who started feeling paranoid after seeing all of these symbols and images for a long period of time.
I remember that once I started getting into the symbols a little too deeply, I became very paranoid and threw out everything I owned that had the slightest symbol on it. If it had a Sun on it, it went out. An eye, Hello Kitty, an owl, a skull, a triangle, hearts, butterflies, swirls, stars, animal prints, the color pink, a black and white color scheme or even Disney characters? Those were also quickly thrown out. To me at the time all this stuff was evil and I would just about avoid all of it like the plague.
I even remember going into some Christian sites telling me that I was going straight to Hell just for wearing a Donald Duck t-shirt and that God didn’t like me because I happen to like that sun necklace that my mom gave to me when I was 10. It belonged to her when she was a teenager and she gave to me and told me to take good care of it. I remember I was going to throw it out a couple of months ago, but decided not to at the very last minute because I promised her I would keep it in good condition. You wouldn’t believe the number of things I threw out all because it had one little symbol on it.
I felt that if I owned this stuff, God would hate me even more and that if I threw it all out, I would go straight to heaven if I died because I thought I was liberating myself of the devil’s influences. The sad thing is that these symbols are everywhere, and by the time I through everything out, I basicaly owned nothing. I admit that I’m not a Christian, but I have been having this internal conflict in me for a while asking “Does God still like me even though I happen to like wearing that sun necklace or does God hate me because of that? What does God like me for? Have I been rejected by God? How do I improve myself so that God like me?” It’s almost like I was at war with God. I even admit that this question was also driving me towards suicide. Does anyone here know the answer?
Were sites like VC planting fear mongering into my mind to drive myself into suicide? That I don’t know.”
…
“Can you believe that I would even hide in fear over the slightest little symbol? It’s like I was becoming afraid of the symbols. I was even starting to develop a phobia of mirrors, dolls, glass, lions, owls, and eagles all because they are either occult symbols or used for mind control. I was never even afraid of thing like that until I started looking at those sites. Not to mention that looking at these symbols for long periods of time gives me severe headaches and I have to stop for a while.
No, I’m not looking to start any pointless drama (I’m long past that dribble.), but I’m just pondering another question about the agenda behind VC and other similar sites. It’s almost like as if they are intentionally making us afraid of these things, which therefore will stop us from living our own lives and end up eventually killing ourselves. Is it possible that these symbol sites are part of the elite’s plan in eugenics? That’s the question that I’m asking.”
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I’m sorry to hear that you got paranoid and threw a lot of stuff away. I certainly never told anyone to throw anything away. Who exactly was the Christian fundamentalist who told you to throw away stuff?
Occult symbols are only occult symbols because occultists use the symbol with an occult meaning. A triangle on your shirt is not an Illuminati pyramid, and a checkerboard pattern on a bed sheet is not Masonic, unless you bought the shirt or the sheet because you yourself associate those symbols with their occult meanings.
Now here’s the interesting thing Ayaka, I don’t preach hatred of people, I claim to hate evil sinful behaviors and evil belief systems that according to the Bible will lead people to hell.
You on the other hand, said that you had intense violent urges against Adam C. Madison, and said that you gain pleasure from the misery of people you hate. That is called sadism. You had me lumped in there right along with Adam.
No one will probably go after you for making these scary comments, instead we will hear from A Team that I am the scary and dangerous psychotic, because I offend Muslims by denouncing their child-molesting false prophet.
Ayaka, my ideas about Christianity are simply what the Bible says. The Bible says that Jesus said that Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and anyone else who rejects Jesus as the Son of God whose blood atones for sin are condemned.
That is not my “personal view”, that is what the Bible says. The Bible is the basis for Christianity.
Who am I to tell people what to believe? I am nobody, I don’t seek to force anyone to believe anything. I tell people what I believe and I tell them why I believe it. I tell people that I believe that they should believe as I do, because I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and it is a good idea to listen to God.
Christians are commanded by Jesus to be “Bible thumpers” who tell people the Gospel(Good News). The good news and the bad news go together. The bad news is that everyone is going to hell. The good news is that Jesus can save people from going to hell.
Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
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I would be here forever taking screenshots, so I’m linking these pages instead. It’s Chainmaker getting into an arguement with Bible Hack Jack:
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3408&sid=7d6f2762fee98e533ffbec9b096462b8&start=280
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3408&sid=7d6f2762fee98e533ffbec9b096462b8&start=290
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3408&sid=7d6f2762fee98e533ffbec9b096462b8&start=300
Those are just the first three pages feel free to look through the rest.
Also did you know that CIA/Nika/Kat once supported Chainmaker?
Who thinks he is a “Jesus mimic”.
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“WoWfan the homosexual Wiccan figured out that Dantalion was Toby before most of the Christians ever did.”
I’ve said that the only evidence you present for your assertion was the website WoWfan presented. I’ve said that because I assert that you don’t know what a fact or evidence are. I am right about that, and have demonstrated it without question. I’ve said the rest of your “facts” were based on assumptions, nothing of which you could be specific about.
I’ve said all of this because like most of the others at the VC website, you were fooled by VC himself as well. When you were no longer useful to VC you were canned by VC.
That makes this whole fantasy of yours even more funnier.
Fact are objective. Facts are black and white 😉 You know, like it’s either a fact or it is not. A fact cannot -not- be a fact. I’m using your arguments in an accurate way here with facts as either black and white. A real fact is reproducible. Even if you are right, you don’t have facts. You claim fact but you cannot reproduce fact, therefore you don’t have fact. You may still be right, but you don’t have fact.
Saying that a “fact” for one is not a “fact” for another makes your assessment of facts “RELATIVE”
That makes you a relativist when it comes to facts.
For someone like yourself to assert there is only one objective universal truth, bastardizing facts as relative is hilarious.
This expose of your faulty thinking is also what motivated and originated the fallacious idea that I was being relative when I said I don’t believe that VC should try to profit from truth, but I can’t impost my belief on him. You used the logical fallacy of the slippery slope to attempt to extrapolate meaning from that statement in order to twist it around to label me a moral relativist.
That is what you do.
Inductive Logical Fallacies at work.
Objective examples from your own behavior that perfectly demonstrate inductive reasoning errors.
I am so glad you are here.
The assumptive, imaginary mindset that you lean on to base most of your conclusions has not served you well in life, that is my assessment. I believe I am right. I have demonstrated it by delineating parts of your behavior here that fit the criteria for said judgement. It is righteous judgement based on objectively reproducible bits of evidence.
I use evidence and value the scientific method.
Your brain works on logical fallacies and pseudo-scientific thinking.
One of us is right, we both can’t be. You are wrong 😉
BTW, your homophobia doesn’t surprise me either. It reminds me of that Gay Conversion minister John Smid who ended up coming out as a homosexual himself.
In his own words,
“I was completely unwilling to hear anything that didn’t fit my paradigm. I blocked out anyone’s life story or biblical teaching that didn’t match up with what I believed… Now that I am not submerged into one sided perspectives, I am open to studying and reading the scriptures for myself, I am finding so many rich truths that I wasn’t ever made aware of before.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/john-smid-former-ex-gay-minister-sexual-orientation-_n_1022417.html
His whole ministry he was trying to turn people away from being gay to simply come to terms that he was gay.
Note, I’m not suggesting you are a homosexual, just the parallel that he was fighting against something externally, when the whole time it was an internal problem he was struggling against.
Chainmaker did you watch the Social Network?
Do you remember the part when the actor playing Mark Zuckerberg is sitting in the bar with his girlfriend, just before she breaks up with him? They’re having a beer and he implies that he can make her life better by connecting her with the right social network (in real life), and she becomes offended by it.
She says to him, “you might go through life thinking people dislike you because you’re a nerd….”
never mind, I’ll let you watch. Hopefully this embed thing works:
If that doesn’t work, go here and see for yourself:
listen to the first 25s at least. He may believe that people reject him for one reason. She accurately explained the real reason though.
Do you know who Fred Phelps is Chainmaker? You should right yourself before you become like him.
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The parallels are astonishing
{note,not a smear attempt, no paranoia needed here}
Don’t become this person Chainmaker. For your sake and those around you, please don’t.
The Transformation of Fred Phelps
The Topeka Capital-Journal
By Joe Taschler and Steve Fry
Hate as a human emotion has been present throughout the ages. It has manifested itself in genocide and war. About three years ago, hate began manifesting itself in pickets and facsimile machines in Topeka, the heart of middle America. As the decade marches on, so does the hate, unchecked. The blunt hatred startles most people when they first experience it. They find out the hating is being done in the name of God. They’re speechless. The whole idea takes their breathe away.
The broker of hatred is the Rev. Fred Waldron Phelps Sr.
Most of his hate is focused on homosexuals for whom he advocates the death penalty. Seven days a week, Phelps and his followers carry picket signs throughout the city. The signs declare “God hates fags” and “Fags are worthy of death,” among other things. The pickets began more than three years ago at Gage Park, a 160-acre park in the west-central part of the city. The park features the city’s zoo and dome-enclosed tropical rain forest. Thousands of people visit the park each year.
The Phelps pickets have continually expanded and have popped up in such places as New York, Washington, D.C., and San Francisco. Additionally, the pickets are taking place throughout Kansas as well as the Kansas City metropolitan area. Phelps and his clan seem to be everywhere.
Phelps’ message of hate isn’t limited to picket signs. Phelps and his followers also send facsimiles — faxes — to hundreds of fax machines in homes and offices around the nation. But most of the faxes are sent to homes and businesses in Topeka and Kansas. The Phelps faxes almost always attack someone or something in the city or state. Phelps has used the faxes to label the mayor of Topeka the “ANTICHRIST.” The faxes repeatedly refer to a city council woman as a “Jezebelian switch-hitting whore.” The faxes also call the county’s district attorney a “gestapo,” “forked-tongued she-devil,” and a “dirt-dumb, butt-ugly and demon-possessed vixen.” The DA campaigned on a platform of prosecuting Phelps and has carried through on her promises, leading to a bitter feud between the two.
All of the information contained in the faxes is protected by free speech, Phelps says. He has received some encouragement from the federal courts with regards to his faxes.
Phelps and his followers picket the funerals of homosexuals in Topeka. The Phelps group also travels throughout the country to picket the funerals of openly-gay celebrities or persons who have died of AIDS.
Fred Phelps, Sr., also is a candidate for governor of Kansas.
An avowed critic of President Clinton, Phelps and his followers picket presidential visits and other gatherings of elected officials.
In Kansas, the funeral picketing led to a state law aimed at limiting such activity.
Phelps’ hate extends beyond homosexuals to anyone who has ever crossed him, disagreed with him or challenged him. Phelps doesn’t hide the fact that he hates and is hated. When questioned about it, he meekly, almost sheepishly, replies he is doing the work of God. He is sincere: He absolutely believes God wants him to preach hate against homosexuals. He sees himself as an island of righteousness in the age of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome — AIDS — and gays rights.
Anyone who challenges Phelps and his tactics automatically becomes a promoter of homosexuals. Anyone who is a homosexual or isn’t actively and vocally opposed to homosexuality is a “sodomite.” Simply put, if you aren’t for Phelps, you are against him. Nine of his 13 grandchildren and more than three dozen grandchildren are unshakable in sharing his beliefs.
Most people in northeast Kansas — generally tolerant, gentle people whose roots are in farming and operating small businesses — have accepted the hateful pickets and faxes the way they accept tornadoes and violent thunderstorms that march across the state each spring: They are a fact of life you must live with, but they are to be avoided, if possible. Phelps claims there are many people in the community and the state who support him and believe in what he is doing. But the only source of the hate is the mind of Phelps.
Dozens of interviews conducted across several states only add to the mystery surrounding Phelps. Nothing in his background explains his behavior. Rumors in Topeka that he is gay or was abused as a child aren’t true. His life is a fog-shrouded labyrinth of strange turns and twists of fate. Conflict is the only thing constant in his life. He thrives on it.
In the beginning
Fred Waldron Phelps was born Nov. 13, 1929, in Meridian, Miss. He had a typical Southern upbringing in a highly respected family.
Searches of historic records and interviews with Mississippi residents who either knew young Fred Phelps and his family — or just knew of them — provide a fascinating account of his early days.
His father, Fred Wade Phelps, was a detective for the Southern Railroad. His mother, Catherine Idalette Johnston Phelps, was a homemaker who died Sept. 3, 1935. She was 28 years old. Fred was 5 years old. Mississippi residents who remember the Phelps family say Mrs. Phelps died of throat cancer. Mrs. Phelps’ obituary indicates the family was prominent in Meridian. Honorary pallbearers for her funeral included the mayor of Meridian, a city councilman, two judges and every member of the Meridian Police Department.
Thetis Grace Hudson, a feisty 72-year-old retired Meridian librarian who was a childhood neighbor of the Phelps family, said young Fred acted with “bewilderment” to his mother’s death. After his mother’s death, a maternal great-aunt, Irene Jordan, helped care for Fred and his younger sister, Martha Jean. At times, work caused Fred’s father to be away from home, and Jordan cared for the children. In a 1991 fax, Phelps refers to her as “the dear old aunt who raised me and my sister after our mother died.” Jordan died in 1950 in a motor vehicle accident as she drove from Hattiesburg, Miss., to Meridian. Two of the principal women in Fred’s life died before he reached the age of 21. Fred’s father later re-married.
Folks in Meridian say there is nothing in Phelps’ background that caused him to take to the streets and fax machines of Topeka in a hate campaign. Phelps’ childhood appeared normal in Depression-era Mississippi. “There was nothing in his family out of the ordinary,” Hudson said. She remembered Phelps as being a very intelligent child. Hudson said Phelps’ father remained with the railroad during the Depression, and the family lived comfortably during the time when other families in the region were being ravaged by economic conditions.
Over and over, Mississippians insisted there was nothing in Phelps’ childhood and teenage years that caused him to be the way he is today. “Fred Phelps had as normal and beautiful a home life as anyone ever wanted,” a relative of Phelps in Mississippi said. She didn’t want her name used. “All I know is it’s a tragedy, and it stems from within Fred Phelps,” she said of the homosexual picketing and hate campaign. “It has nothing to do with his upbringing.”
High school years
Sid F. Curtis Jr., a Meridian resident, was a classmate of young Fred Phelps at Marion Park Elementary School in Meridian. Curtis remembers Phelps’ artwork. “He likes sports. He did some very nice drawings of boxing. I thought he was very talented.”
Some relatives and acquaintances in Mississippi talked freely about Phelps, but most didn’t want their names used for the stories. They feared retaliation from Phelps. Others said they didn’t want anyone to know they were related to him. They repeated the same themes about Phelps: As a youngster, he was smart and an achiever. By all accounts, he was a model citizen.
Fletcher Rosenbaum, a retired lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Air Force who lives in Meridian, went to high school with Phelps. “He was good at whatever he tried,” Rosenbaum said. “He was a first-class individual. I would be surprised if he wasn’t a top-notch citizen in Topeka.”
The anti-homosexual picketing and fax-machine attacks surprised Rosenbaum. “He was very reserved in high school, very quiet,” said Rosenbaum. “I’m very surprised he would be involved in aggressive activities. To me, that would be out of character for him.”
As a teenager, Fred was tall, thin and sported a crew cut. He was extraordinarily smart, but a little overbearing about it at times. Fred was a reserved and serious high school student and didn’t date anyone in high school.
“He was not a real socializer, but he knew a lot of people. Everyone had the greatest respect for him,” said Meridian lawyer, Joe Clay Hamilton, a high school classmate of Phelps. Fred earned the rank of Eagle Scout with Palms, played cornet and base horn in the high school band, was a high hurdler on the track team, worked as a reporter on the Wildcat — Meridian High School’s newspaper — and was graduated with honors. He was a member of Phi Kappa, a high school social fraternity. He also was president of the Young Peoples Department of Central United Methodist Church and received an award from the American Legion recognizing high qualities of courage, leadership, scholarship and service. Fred received another award as the best drilled member of the Mississippi Junior State Guard, a unit similar to the Reserve Officer Training Corps.
In a class of 213, Fred ranked sixth and was the class orator at commencement on May 28, 1946. “The Four Freedoms must be shared and not just enjoyed,” a Meridian Star newspaper story quoted Fred as saying during his speech, titled “Our Heritage and Our Responsibility.” Phelps was referring to President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s definition of the four freedoms as freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom from want and freedom from fear.
A story in the Wildcat about 1946 Meridian High School graduates included this rhyme:
“Fred Phelps would be an athlete great,
Did he not believe in studying late.”
Fred’s prowess as a boxer figured in a story predicting the futures of Phelps and his fellow high school classmates. “Fred Phelps will box in Madison Square Garden next June 1954. Young Phelps will fight for the world championship,” the Wildcat clipping read. A Golden Gloves boxer in high school, Fred fought two times in a state meet, winning both matches.
The Transformation
The year 1946 marked a turning point in Phelps’ life. That year, he was graduated from high school and preparing to attend the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. He had been groomed for a West Point appointment all his life and had secured an appointment to the military academy from Mississippi’s Fifth Congressional district.
That summer, Phelps attended a revival at a Methodist church in Meridian, and his life spun around and headed in another direction. The revival ignited an inferno inside him.
Fred Phelps, by his own account, was being called by God to be a preacher and missionary.
The tiny seed that ultimately grew into Phelps’ fervent anti-homosexual ministry was planted by a Methodist minister conducting the revival at the East End Methodist Church in Meridian. Phelps still remembers the minister’s sermon. “It was the parable where the Lord Jesus said a certain man made a great supper and bade many to come, and they all began to make excuses,” Phelps said. “He said the Kingdom of heaven is like unto man who made a great supper. His application of it was there is no logical, rational reason why any human being should not get right with God in his heart. I remember that sermon pretty doggone good.”
Shortly before the revival, Phelps had met John Capron in Meridian, and they became close friends. They did everything together, including going to the movies and attending gatherings at the Central United Methodist Church, Meridian’s largest Methodist church. Capron eventually married Fred’s sister, Martha Jean.
Mississippi sources say the revival was instrumental in changing Phelps and John Capron.
The two of them “got religion,” said Joe Clay Hamilton, the high school classmate of Phelps. Both Phelps and Capron became very excited about religion. They couldn’t distinguish reality from idealism, friends and relatives said. They were going off to conquer the world. A Mississippi relative of Phelps who didn’t want her name used, described it this way: “Fred, bless his heart, just went overboard. If you didn’t accept it, he was going to cram it down your throat.”
What made the transformation even more astonishing is what it did to Phelps’ plans. He was to begin West Point in 1947. His father’s dream had been for Phelps to attend West Point. Young Fred shared the dream and had driven himself toward it since childhood. But Phelps, who was 16 when he graduated from Meridian High School, couldn’t begin until he turned 17. While waiting for his 17th birthday, he “felt the call.”
Dreams of West Point melted away like an ice cube tossed onto a hot sidewalk. Phelps, by his own description, “went to a little Methodist revival meeting and had what I think was an experience of grace, they call it down there. I felt the call, as they say, and it was powerful. The God of glory appeared. It doesn’t mean a vision or anything, but it means an impulse on the heart, as the old preachers say.”
In January 1947, Phelps abandoned plans for West Point and enrolled in Bob Jones University, a non-denominational Christian university then located in Cleveland, Tenn. The school offers degrees ranging from two-year associate’s degrees to doctoral degrees. The university teaches a literal interpretation of the Bible. In 1983, the Internal Revenue Service revoked the university’s tax exemption because it accused the school of practicing racial discrimination. Years later, Phelps renounced the university as “racist.”
By the summer of 1947, Fred Phelps had switched his religious denomination to Baptist.
He had become zealous, devout, a fiery orator and an eccentric, said the Rev. B.H. McAlister, a Southern Baptist minister who ordained Phelps.
As part of the Rocky Mountain mission assignment in summer 1947, Phelps and two other students from Bob Jones University were to seek out a fundamentalist church, convert non-believers to Christianity and steer the converts to the Baptist church. The three men chose Vernal, a town in northeast Utah about 130 miles east of Salt Lake City. During the day, the trio went door to door seeking converts, then conducted tent revivals at night, preaching on the radio. McAlister was pastor of the First Baptist Church in Vernal at the time.
The mission assignment fit Phelps’ nature and his knack for conflict: He was a Baptist working to convert people who were predominantly and stauchly Mormon.
Pitching a tent in the city park of Vernal, the missionaries drew only 20 to 25 people a night. Then one of the three, Ed Nelson, ran a newspaper advertisement that asked, “What’s Wrong with the Mormon Church?”
“Boy, did we get a crowd,” said Nelson, 69, now a travelling Baptist evangelist based in Denver. Nelson recalled the events that night: Tensions rose between the missionaries and the crowd of 200 spectators, many of them Mormons disputing the missionaries’ message. The crowd stormed the speaking platform, and one spectator grabbed Phelps, who had been the song leader that night. “‘Get your filthy mitts off me,'” Nelson quoted Phelps as saying. Phelps pulled his fist back. “I was afraid he was going to punch one of those guys,” Nelson said.
Nelson turned off the light to avoid a fight.
Nelson last saw Phelps in 1952 or 1953. “The last time I saw him he thought there were only a handful to be saved and he was one of them.”
When it came time for Phelps’ ordination, “we put him through the paces because of his young age,” McAlister said. “We feared for him because of his youth.” Phelps was 17, at least three years younger than most ministers when ordained.
McAlister, who has helped ordain hundreds, described the ordination process: An examination board of 10 to 20 ministers asks a candidate questions about doctrine and scripture. Not everyone passes.
Phelps did. He was ordained Sept. 8, 1947, and then returned to Bob Jones University as a Southern Baptist minister.
Today, Nelson and McAlister share Phelps’ anti-homosexual sentiments. But, “I question his wisdom as to his being so zealous,” McAlister said.
Despite being ordained as a Southern Baptist minister, Phelps touts himself as a Primitive Baptist preacher and an Old School preacher. No rules prevent him from switching denominations, said Mark Coppenger, an official with the Southern Baptist Convention in Nashville, Tenn.
“I was ordained by the First Baptist Church of Vernal, Utah,” Phelps says. “There is no such thing as being ordained by the Southern Baptists. You are ordained by the Baptist church. I went to that church, and we liked each other. They baptized me in a mountain stream that was cold and ordained me.”
Phelps says he hasn’t missed a Sunday preaching lesson since. “So the hunch was good,” he said. “If the call was good, it never goes away.”
Street Preacher
Phelps left Bob Jones University without graduating.
From Bob Jones, Phelps headed north to the Prairie Bible Institute in Three Hills near Calgary, Alberta. After two semesters, Phelps moved to California in April 1949, where he earned a two-year degree in 1951 from John Muir College in Pasadena.
Phelps’ gift at being a malcontented street corner preacher started getting national attention 43 years ago, long before he and his followers descended on Topeka’s Gage Park.
The June 11, 1951 issue of Time Magazine included a story on Phelps, then a Pasadena street preacher who lectured lunch-hour students about “sins committed on campus by students and teachers.” The sins Phelps cited included promiscuous petting, evil language, profanity, cheating, teachers’ filthy jokes in classrooms and pandering to the lusts of the flesh.
One day, police approached Phelps and escorted him to a police car, telling him his removal from the street was for his own protection because the crowd was becoming hostile. Police chatted with him, then released him after the crowd broke up. Phelps was back out preaching almost immediately after his run-in with the police in Pasadena, returning to preach from the lawn of a sympathizer near the school. His 1951 behavior was a prophecy of his behavior in Topeka in the 1990s: When he is challenged or told he is wrong, his resolve to continue becomes as tough and cold as tempered steel.
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That’s interesting. I think that Fred Phelps has decided to ignore this Scripture:
“I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore ‘put away from yourselves that wicked person'” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).
According to that passage Fred Phelps is not being Christian when he calls for homosexuals to be killed, since he should have nothing to do with enacting judgment on non-Christians.
According to that passage the only judgment Fred Phelps should be enacting is to simply shun people who call themselves Christians but practice homosexuality.
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I guess you missed this:
“Phelps’ hate extends beyond homosexuals to anyone who has ever crossed him, disagreed with him or challenged him. Phelps doesn’t hide the fact that he hates and is hated. When questioned about it, he meekly, almost sheepishly, replies he is doing the work of God.”
Fred uses the Bible to justify his hatred as -doing-God’s-work…too
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Fred Phelps should probably read what I wrote to Chauk:
“Please do not confuse hatred for an immoral belief system with hate for individuals who follow that belief system, or hate for an immoral action with hate of the individual who performed the action. Please do not confuse hatred for immorality with hatred for the free will that allows people to choose immorality.”
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. — Romans 12:9
It is said specifically in the Bible, but “hate the sin, not the sinner” is a very Biblical doctrine.
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correction: It ISN’T said specifically in the Bible, but “hate the sin, not the sinner” is a very Biblical doctrine.
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Well since you keep missing the obvious, I’ll just straight out tell you.
Both you and Fred justify hate with the Bible.
He is probably a bit more dangerous than you given he doesn’t hide behind anonymity on the internet and expresses his hatred in real life against real life people.
Then again, you’re anonymous on here and there is no way of truly knowing what you’ve done in your real life. You said you went to jail 3x, but we don’t know for what…other than it wasn’t for stealing cars, lol.
I still maintain that you won’t talk to others in real life like you do here. I’m sure you’ve tried, and when it failed or you were rejected it probably built up more anger in you. You find an outlet here on the internet because, as you put it,
you won’t get socked in the eye.
That’s cowardly actually.
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Of course I justify hate with the Bible. The Bible commands me to hate:
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good — Romans 12:9
If you disagree with that, don’t call yourself a Christian.
What I have done in my life before becoming a Christian does not reflect negatively on my testimony. What I do in my life after having made a public statement of Christianity does matter.
I have been in more than one religious/politicaldiscussion in real life when people have gotten extremely offended at hearing my views.
The last time it happened was a few months ago when I told someone that I believe that Osama Bin Laden died years ago and the Seal Team 6 story is a lie.
The “patriotic American” I was arguing with got in my face, however I was not socked in the eye.
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“WoWfan the homosexual Wiccan figured out that Dantalion was Toby before most of the Christians ever did.”
I’ve said that the only evidence you present for your assertion was the website WoWfan presented. I’ve said that because I assert that you don’t know what a fact or evidence are. I am right about that, and have demonstrated it without question. I’ve said the rest of your “facts” were based on assumptions, nothing of which you could be specific about.
I’ve said all of this because like most of the others at the VC website, you were fooled by VC himself as well. When you were no longer useful to VC you were canned by VC.
That makes this whole fantasy of yours even more funnier.
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The website Wowfan presented isn’t evidence of anything, and I have never, ever from the beginning of this discussion claimed to be able to definitively prove what I believe about Vigilant or Toby/Dantalion, I said that I believe what I believe to be fact about the situation based on my own experience through conversations with all the people involved, and even if I had the private conversations between Toby and I or Vigilant and I saved, I would not be posting private conversations.
Can you definitively prove that I was fooled by VC? Can you definitively prove what it is that you claim VC lied to me about?
I do agree, when VC saw me as being not useful to him, he banned me. He did it in 2010 because he was threatened with hate speech lawsuits by a very irate Muslim woman named Halimah bin David. Then he did it again after I first denounced Hexa for defending child molestation after he said that 6 year old Aisha was able to give consent to be married, and he gave me another permaban after I exposed Hexa for being the Satanist witch that he is.
I guess you might find that funny, it’s a rather common event on the internet. People get banned from forums for speaking offensive truths all the time.
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Fact are objective. Facts are black and white 😉 You know, like it’s either a fact or it is not. A fact cannot -not- be a fact. I’m using your arguments in an accurate way here with facts as either black and white. A real fact is reproducible. Even if you are right, you don’t have facts. You claim fact but you cannot reproduce fact, therefore you don’t have fact. You may still be right, but you don’t have fact.
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Yes, facts are black and white. If I am talking to a blind man, and I tell him that the sky is blue, I can’t reproduce that fact to him, he can’t see the sky.
The fact is, the sky is still blue.
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Saying that a “fact” for one is not a “fact” for another makes your assessment of facts “RELATIVE”
That makes you a relativist when it comes to facts.
For someone like yourself to assert there is only one objective universal truth, bastardizing facts as relative is hilarious.
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What is not hilarious, but is very sad, is that you just continue to repeat this blatant lie.
The lies are getting tired A Team. I will post this yet again for you, maybe you will stop lying about my views this time.
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
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This expose of your faulty thinking is also what motivated and originated the fallacious idea that I was being relative when I said I don’t believe that VC should try to profit from truth, but I can’t impost my belief on him. You used the logical fallacy of the slippery slope to attempt to extrapolate meaning from that statement in order to twist it around to label me a moral relativist.
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You said that the very act of applying to Vigilant your belief that Vigilant should not profit from truth carries guilt, thus, it is morally wrong to judge Vigilant by your own perception of morality. That is a viewpoint common to moral relativists.
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BTW, your homophobia doesn’t surprise me either. It reminds me of that Gay Conversion minister John Smid who ended up coming out as a homosexual himself.
In his own words,
“I was completely unwilling to hear anything that didn’t fit my paradigm. I blocked out anyone’s life story or biblical teaching that didn’t match up with what I believed… Now that I am not submerged into one sided perspectives, I am open to studying and reading the scriptures for myself, I am finding so many rich truths that I wasn’t ever made aware of before.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/john-smid-former-ex-gay-minister-sexual-orientation-_n_1022417.html
His whole ministry he was trying to turn people away from being gay to simply come to terms that he was gay.
Note, I’m not suggesting you are a homosexual, just the parallel that he was fighting against something externally, when the whole time it was an internal problem he was struggling against.
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Homophobic?
I am not afraid of homosexuality, I simply believe that it is by nature a mental illness and by God a sin.
John Smid might struggle with the mental illness that causes him to be attracted to the same sex, as a Christian if he acts on those sinful desires he is disobeying God and he should be shunned by other Christians.
“I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore ‘put away from yourselves that wicked person'” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13).
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I have spent some time on VC debating the Biblical view of homosexuality, but most of my time was spent arguing against Islam and especially the child molestation aspect.
Does that mean I am trying to come to terms with my “inner child molestor”?
No, it means that I am close with a victim of child molestation and I utterly despise the behavior, I hate that evil and direct that hatred into speaking against the major world religions that condone it, one of which is Islam, another of which is Talmudic Judaism.
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That’s an interesting extrapolation, but not everything is black and white. 😉
No really.
No one insinuated you were molested as a child, or have an inner child molestor. That’s prime evidence to the point I made earlier. You substitute new meanings for pretty simple statements in order to divert away from their true and simple meaning.
John Smid had a fear of homosexuality similar to yours, but then he discovered that he was fighting something internal. Like I said, that doesn’t mean the black-and-white interpretation you would have it mean, or that you are gay or a victim of child molestation or any other product of your imagination. It does, however, parallel the fact that you see through your experiences that the Bible justifies an anger within you. The key is that it is through your experiences you see that.
It’s you Chainmaker. Not the Bible.
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“You said that the very act of applying to Vigilant your belief that Vigilant should not profit from truth carries guilt, thus, it is morally wrong to judge Vigilant by your own perception of morality. That is a viewpoint common to moral relativists.”
I didn’t say that. I said I didn’t believe that one should profit from dispensation of truth. I stick to that belief. I don’t try to profit from it here, neither does Chauk. That’s my belief, but I can’t impose that on Vigilant. All else was your really far reaching extrapolation. You only did it because I nailed you on the relativist position that facts are different for different people. Facts or objective. Acting like they are subjective makes you the relativist. You hate the fact that I caught you out on something that truly was relative and I didn’t have to twist your words to do so.
Question, how do you keep track of all your lies?
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” I have never, ever from the beginning of this discussion claimed to be able to definitively prove what I believe about Vigilant or Toby/Dantalion”
Ooops, you said you knew it for a fact. Facts are reproducible. If you don’t have them, you only have your belief or opinion. I taught you the difference between opinion and fact, you persevere in your misunderstanding of this, refusing to acknowledge the difference. That is why your thinking is shoddy and not reliable. You reject authorities on logic, science and even the law. You, of course, being Christlike (your own admission) act like what you say is authority over the true authorities.
That’s what makes you a special but irrational conspiracy theorist.
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Observe Chainmaker’s internal dilemma’s or paradoxes
“What may be fact for me, may not be fact for you….” relativist position
Now Chainmaker says,
“Yes, facts are black and white.”
Full of contradictions you are Chain. 😉
We seek to prove our hypotheses right by providing facts and methods that others can reproduce to arrive at the same conclusion. That is the basis of the scientific method, which you managed to misunderstand too.
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“The fact is, the sky is still blue.”
Actually we learn to relate descriptors to objects from a young age. If the Blind man has never seen a blue color, he won’t know what blue is.
How about the color blind individual? He won’t know what blue is either, but the sky is the sky and maybe the sky has a bird or a plane or a cloud in it that can be identified by both individuals.
This phenomenon is not exactly equivalent to ‘facts’ used in court-room evidence or scientific exploration.
Your analogy is again off.
You may have some truth.
The way you spread it may be wrong.
It’s not always both or neither.
That’s the error of False Dilema, which you ascribe to true logic, which is a logical fallacy of black and white thinking.
Examples of False Dilemma
Bill: “Jill and I both support having prayer in public schools.”
Jill: “Hey, I never said that!”
Bill: “You’re not an atheist are you Jill?”
A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options (sometimes shades of grey between the extremes). For example, “It wasn’t medicine that cured Ms. X, so it must have been a miracle.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
…..she may have been misdiagnosed in the first place for example….
Sometimes there are other explanations other than the black and white ones a limited mind can see.
Your claim that logic is black and white is a false dilemma.
You therefore lean on fallacies of logic to draw many of your conclusions from.
Note, I never said all, but in the examples I have shown, you certainly have.
You also do not understand science well at all.
Here’a an intro to the Scientific Method to start you off:
Introduction to the Scientific Method
The scientific method is the process by which scientists, collectively and over time, endeavor to construct an accurate (that is, reliable, consistent and non-arbitrary) representation of the world.
Recognizing that personal and cultural beliefs influence both our perceptions and our interpretations of natural phenomena, we aim through the use of standard procedures and criteria to minimize those influences when developing a theory. As a famous scientist once said, “Smart people (like smart lawyers) can come up with very good explanations for mistaken points of view.” In summary, the scientific method attempts to minimize the influence of bias or prejudice in the experimenter when testing an hypothesis or a theory.
I. The scientific method has four steps
1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.
3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.
There is not one authoritative scientist that will tell you the scientific method is to discover the one truth. It is to explain, as accurately as possible the world around us. If your study design is able to be reproduced by another scientist with the same results, it’s more valid and accurate than one that cannot be reproduced. You’re erroneously trying to equate the scientific method with your black and white view of the world.
You’ve been told already why you err where you do. It’s your thinking.
It’s largely flawed.
In the Cluster B category of Personality Disorders exists Borderline Personality Disorder.
This disorder is largely categorized by black and white thinking.
Borderline personality disorder: extreme “black and white” thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior often leading to self-harm and impulsivity.
In extreme cases, this disturbance in the sense of self can lead to periods of dissociation.[1]
Do you fish at sea for large periods of time? Does it bring you comfort?
It generally affects persons over the age of eighteen years, although it is also found in adolescents.
Splitting in BPD includes a switch between idealizing and demonizing others <<<< Like calling others who do not agree with you -Satanists-
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That’s an interesting extrapolation, but not everything is black and white. 😉
No really.
No one insinuated you were molested as a child, or have an inner child molestor. That’s prime evidence to the point I made earlier. You substitute new meanings for pretty simple statements in order to divert away from their true and simple meaning.
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I disagree. You said this:
“Note, I’m not suggesting you are a homosexual, just the parallel that he was fighting against something externally, when the whole time it was an internal problem he was struggling against.”
Since he was fighting against external homosexuality because he stuggled with it internally, the obvious parallel is that whatever I am fighting against externally I must be struggling with internally.
That’s the obvious parallel. That parallel is so obvious that you had to pre-empt the parallel by saying “no one is suggesting you are a homosexual”
You understood the obvious parallel, and then you have the gall to deny it and say that I made it up:
“No one insinuated you were molested as a child, or have an inner child molestor. That’s prime evidence to the point I made earlier. You substitute new meanings for pretty simple statements in order to divert away from their true and simple meaning.”
Very very deceptive.
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John Smid had a fear of homosexuality similar to yours, but then he discovered that he was fighting something internal. Like I said, that doesn’t mean the black-and-white interpretation you would have it mean, or that you are gay or a victim of child molestation or any other product of your imagination. It does, however, parallel the fact that you see through your experiences that the Bible justifies an anger within you. The key is that it is through your experiences you see that.
It’s you Chainmaker. Not the Bible.
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Again, I do not fear homosexuality, I simply believe that it is by nature a mental illness and by God homosexual behavior is sin.
The Bible does justify hatred of sin. There is righteous hatred, and there is righteous anger.
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. – Romans12:9
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“You said that the very act of applying to Vigilant your belief that Vigilant should not profit from truth carries guilt, thus, it is morally wrong to judge Vigilant by your own perception of morality. That is a viewpoint common to moral relativists.”
I didn’t say that. I said I didn’t believe that one should profit from dispensation of truth. I stick to that belief. I don’t try to profit from it here, neither does Chauk. That’s my belief, but I can’t impose that on Vigilant. All else was your really far reaching extrapolation.
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You said this:
“Some people will see it as evil to profit from the dispensation of truth and one on side of that argument they are right, that we shouldn’t want to profit from spreading the truth, but then we are guilty of putting our values on someone else.”
You made no mention of imposing your belief on Vigilant, so said the very action of applying your moral belief to Vigilant carries guilt.
It is a statement that reeks of moral relativism.
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You only did it because I nailed you on the relativist position that facts are different for different people. Facts or objective. Acting like they are subjective makes you the relativist. You hate the fact that I caught you out on something that truly was relative and I didn’t have to twist your words to do so.
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The lies are getting tired A Team. I will post this yet again for you, maybe you will stop lying about my views this time.
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
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Chain, use Occam’s Razor here.
I prefaced my statement by stating that I was not claiming you were homosexual because my experience with you, paralleled by others experience with you, is that you tend to extrapolate meaning where it does not exist and I realized if I didn’t make that disclaimer you would have tried to use it to smear the true message.
Chainmaker,
“Since he was fighting against external homosexuality because he stuggled with it internally, the obvious parallel is that whatever I am fighting against externally I must be struggling with internally.”
Yes, but I said that it didn’t mean you were fighting homosexuality or inner molestor, which you added all by your own making. You really suffer from a delusional imagination, which is quite sad actually.
“That’s the obvious parallel. That parallel is so obvious that you had to pre-empt the parallel by saying “no one is suggesting you are a homosexual”
Well the obvious parallel that you miss is the act itself. He fought homosexuality but was actually a homosexual. You use the Bible to justify your anger, but it’s your anger that is the problem.
“You understood the obvious parallel, and then you have the gall to deny it and say that I made it up:”
“No one insinuated you were molested as a child, or have an inner child molestor. That’s prime evidence to the point I made earlier. You substitute new meanings for pretty simple statements in order to divert away from their true and simple meaning.”
Of course you made it all up. No one mentioned anything about molesting a child. You did. You therefore made it up.
It’s just more examples of you adding products of your imagination to discussions and then trying to pin the blame on someone else.
You do this so often it’s not even surprising any more. It’s frightening how quickly your mind goes to that extreme actually.
Very frightening to be honest.
This is not another attack on you, rather based on observations on your behavior here. I do believe you suffer from psychosis
Psychosis is a mental and behavioral disorder in which a person has trouble telling the difference between what is real and what is not real. It may cause bizarre thoughts and behavior.
A person with psychosis may have:
Delusions, which are firmly held but false beliefs. Irrational suspicion of others (paranoia) is a common delusion. The person may think others are watching or trying to hurt or even kill him or her.
Hallucinations, which are false perceptions. Hallucinations can include seeing, hearing, feeling, smelling, or tasting things that are not really there.
You fit a lot of the criteria.
Since you’ve mentioned Doctors before and implied that you would have some basic trust in them, at least those who scored high on tests, maybe you should test out my hypothesis?
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” I have never, ever from the beginning of this discussion claimed to be able to definitively prove what I believe about Vigilant or Toby/Dantalion”
Ooops, you said you knew it for a fact. Facts are reproducible. If you don’t have them, you only have your belief or opinion. I taught you the difference between opinion and fact, you persevere in your misunderstanding of this, refusing to acknowledge the difference. That is why your thinking is shoddy and not reliable. You reject authorities on logic, science and even the law. You, of course, being Christlike (your own admission) act like what you say is authority over the true authorities.
That’s what makes you a special but irrational conspiracy theorist.
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Here is what I said:
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
That says that when I say that I believe something about Toby is a fact, and I can’t prove it to you, I don’t expect you to assume it is fact, you can choose to believe whatever you want about it all, which I repeatedly said earlier on this page.
I believe that my opinion of Toby is fact, I have not declared that my opinion is a proven fact that you must accept.
Indeed, I am a free thinker, and I do not accept what is dictated to me as fact without researching it myself and applying my own logic. The “authorities” on logic, science and the law are not always correct, and majority opinion on any given subject is not always correct.
I accept the Bible as authoritative, the majority of people do not.
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Observe Chainmaker’s internal dilemma’s or paradoxes
“What may be fact for me, may not be fact for you….” relativist position
Now Chainmaker says,
“Yes, facts are black and white.”
Full of contradictions you are Chain. 😉
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The lies are getting tired A Team. I will post this yet again for you, maybe you will stop lying about my views this time.
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
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There is not one authoritative scientist that will tell you the scientific method is to discover the one truth. It is to explain, as accurately as possible the world around us. If your study design is able to be reproduced by another scientist with the same results, it’s more valid and accurate than one that cannot be reproduced. You’re erroneously trying to equate the scientific method with your black and white view of the world.
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There is no such thing as validity or accuracy if there is not one objective truth.
Validity and accuracy in science is a measure of how close you are to the One True Answer to any given question.
The purpose of the scientific method is to get as close as possible to the One Truth through trial and error.
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Do you fish at sea for large periods of time? Does it bring you comfort?
It generally affects persons over the age of eighteen years, although it is also found in adolescents.
Splitting in BPD includes a switch between idealizing and demonizing others <<<< Like calling others who do not agree with you -Satanists-
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So now getting satisfaction from experiencing the wilderness is a symptom of mental disorder? LOL
I have not called people who simply disagree with me "Satanists", I have reserved that label for those who follow philosophies that are antithetical to Christian philosophy, philosophies that are claimed to be Satanic by self-proclaimed Satanists.
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Chainmaker, stop lying.
Here is what you said verbatim. Anyone can confirm this -FACT- by doing a Control F and pasting the quote below and finding you very quote
“What I consider a fact you might not consider a fact. Based on my own experience I know it is a fact that Toby and Dantalion are the same. I do not believe that it is possible that the original Toby Jones and Dantalion Jones accounts were two people, I solidly believe that they were one person. I do not believe that there is any chance I am wrong about this. I do believe that Toby is affiliated with a small number of other people, I do not believe that they are any kind of organized research group, that is the hilarious rumor they started for giggles.”
Later on when I accurately pointed out the precise relativist position that
“what I consider fact you might not consider a fact” is a relativist belief, you tried to augment it by further defining it. Very deceptive of you.
Here are some further paradoxes or contradiction, whether you deny it or not, they are words YOU said which contradict each other.
1) ” What is fact to me is not fact to you because I do not have Exhibits A through Z and you can believe whatever you like.”
2) ” I have never, ever from the beginning of this discussion claimed to be able to definitively prove what I believe about Vigilant or Toby/Dantalion”
The obvious paradox in motion is that you don’t know what a fact is, because a fact is reproducible. If you can’t reproduce it, you are relying on assumptive knowledge, and by now we all know that the products of your imagination are not reliable.
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Well the obvious parallel that you miss is the act itself. He fought homosexuality but was actually a homosexual. You use the Bible to justify your anger, but it’s your anger that is the problem.
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That is highly illogical. You see a parallel that does not exist. You recognized the obvious parallel, which was that if he attacked homosexuality, and hewas a homosexual himself, then to apply that to me would mean that I might be fighting internally what I fight externally.
Things that I commonly fight externally are: Islam and child molestation.
The obvious parallel is that I fight Islam or child molestation because I really am attracted to Islam or child molestation.
“You use the Bible to justify your anger, but it’s your anger that is the problem.”
That does not compare. For the parallel to exist, I would have to be fighting against anger externally, condemning anger in others.
I don’t spend any time at all condemning anger externally.
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“What I consider a fact you might not consider a fact. Based on my own experience I know it is a fact that Toby and Dantalion are the same.
Verbatim, I said what I CONSIDER a fact, you might not CONSIDER a fact. My own experiences provide sufficient evidence for me to believe something to be fact. I cannot reproduce my own experiences, regardless, I can still believe something to be a fact that I cannot prove.
That is not a relativist statement.
“What is fact for me might not be fact for you, because it has not been proven to you.
That means that either:
1. I am deluded and what I say is fact for me is actually not a fact.
2. You have not chosen to accept the fact as fact because it has not been sufficiently proven for you.
There is no paradox.
I am not a relativist.”
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We’re coming full circle again Chain, and by this time I was kind of thinking it might sink in.
So then what is fact for you must be fact for me, otherwise you’re saying fact is relative to the person. In fact, this cannot be the truth because facts are reproducible. If there is one thing from all of this that you should allow to sink into your mind, it’s that last statement – facts are reproducible –
If you can’t reproduce them, then you have only opinion.
Your belief that they are one in the same is assumptive only. You have no reproducible facts, you cannot make a claim as such. It is unscientific.
You jump to conclusions though. Many here have already identified that.
That is how you came to your conclusion. You added the word “fact” to try and make it more believable.
You like to think you can influence people’s minds.
But a better prepared mind than yours cannot be fooled by your many ridiculous methods.
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 6:
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Ouch at the first image.
Chainmaker must truly hate recure in order to label them a Satanic Catholic.
LOL @ the fifth image “Gimicky Christian”, accurate and funny at the same time.
The 7th image confirms what I was afraid of from the beginning, that a lot of this may have indeed been drug induced. That he says he is still dealing with former addictions speaks volumes too.
The 8th image and the declaration that one does not care that they may have alienated all that they claim to be trying to reach proves without a shadow of a doubt that the aim is not to help bring truth to people, but to anger them. Not caring that one has alienated everyone is also a sign of Borderline Personality Disorder.
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I did not call recure a Satanic Catholic.
Recure called himself a Satanic Catholic.
I have said often that Catholicism is corrupted by pagan traditions and false doctrine, but did not say that all Catholics are Satanists.
Because I had previously spoken against Catholicism, recure made that statement.
I do not care that speaking the truth alienates the majority of people, I expect that.
I am not on any hard drugs and have not been for a very long time. There are many addictions to be fought other than drugs, the battle against sin is ongoing for as long as I live.
I do not care that what I say alienates many people, I fully expect that speaking the truth will alienate most people.
“And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake. But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved.” — Mark 13:13
You would definitely have diagnosed Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, John the Baptist, and Jesus as being mentally ill.
Especially John the Baptist. He lived in the wilderness and ate locusts, and got himself killed for calling the king an adulterer.
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I don’t diagnose individuals. I just pointed out that you have most, if not all, the characteristics of psychosis; Borderline Personality Disorder and paranoia and are certainly irrational.
Also, if you’re suggesting that all people with Borderline Personality Disorders are “prophets” I can only
LOL…
It’s a real disorder bro…it really is. You just have to visit some of the hospices set up around any big city to help give refuge to some of these folks to realize they ain’t prophets.
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There is no such thing as Borderline Personality Disorder. That is an invention, a hypothesis, it is not real.
There are people who do not think along with majority opinion, and people who do not act according to majority opinion and some are geniuses and some are irrational, and endless debates go on and on around the world about what constitutes rational thought on a million different subjects.
And then there are ego-tripping Psycho Nazis who like to try to call anyone who disagrees with them a nutcase by spewing psycho-babble.
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Chainmaker,
“There is only one true fact about what is the answer to 2 + 2”
Math and logic go hand in hand.
2+2 = 4
so does 3+1, 5-1, 8-4, 12/3, 16/4, 4×1 and so forth…
You see how Truthseer simply debunked your notion that there is only one way to get to four and therefore black and white reasoning is true logic?
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This had nothing to do with the fact that multiple mathematical questions have a One True Answer of 4.
The point always was that for the One Question 2 + 2 = ?
There is One True Answer 2 + 2 = 4
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Math and logic go hand in hand.
Your application of math such that 2+2 cannot = 5 as some sort of validation for your assertion that black and white logic is real logic is known as a Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc logical fallacy.
Go check…
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You fail in attempting to marginalize a lot of complex scientific investigations into your black and white world view by minimizing the whole scientific process into science assuming that there is one truth.
This statement has never and will never be made by a scientist. Most scientists acknowledge that in many instances there is more than one way to arrive at a conclusion. They set out to determine which is most accurate. Often this is an impossible task.
A scientist tries to understand complex phenomenon around him by creating reproducible studies to validate a hypothesis.
Your idea that there is only one way for anything is ludicrous to scientists.
For example, scientists study means to help people out of pain.
From this one aim {reducing or eliminating pain} there have derived thousands of methods from pain killer medication, to topical solutions, to manual therapies, exercises, weird machines that pull on people, push on people, add sound and frequencies to their bodies and so forth.
Many of them have proven successful. Some more than others in one study, and yet some in reverse in another study.
Is there only one way to help people with their pain then? Does science say this is so? That it is assumed to be only one truth?
Nope it does not.
It’s black and white erroneous thinking that leads you to simplify rather complex phenomena around you into
either / or
type of thinking… the classical false dillema, false dichotomy, or erroneous black and white thinking.
That sort of thinking is responsible for this:
3. Reduces morally complex social phenomena to simple, immoral actions;
Impersonal, institutional processes, especially errors and oversights, interpreted as malign, consciously intended and designed by immoral individuals.
4. Personifies complex social phenomena as powerful individual conspirators;
Related to (3) but distinct from it, deduces the existence of powerful individual conspirators from the ‘impossibility’ that a chain of events lacked direction by a person.
Reducing complex and layered investigative process to one simple all encompassing assumption is…
9. Is upheld by persons with demonstrably false conceptions of relevant science; At least some of the story’s believers believe it on the basis of a mistaken grasp of elementary scientific facts.
When for example you are provided with expert testimony to the fact that black and white thinking is anti-logic….
11. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
It’s the method of thinking that produces the end results, or errors.
That kind of thinking is associated with depression and other psychological problems such as borderline personality disorders.
I’m only the messenger.
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You, Chainmaker, who relies largely on inductive reasoning fallacies, who believes logic is black and white, and who does not have a fundamental understanding of science, who imagines he’s being defamed, so on and so forth calling someone else “illogical” is comedy.
Thank you for your humor.
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Since you’ve mentioned Doctors before and implied that you would have some basic trust in them, at least those who scored high on tests, maybe you should test out my hypothesis?
————————————-
Are you a psychologist? If so, be advised that I do not hold a high opinion of your field. It is not a “hard science”. Doctors of the mind are not comparable to doctors of the body. The circulatory system can be mapped, the functions of red blood cells and white blood cells ascertained, the muscles of the heart dissected and black-and-white fact or fiction can be established, and that “hard science” is what a cardiologist is tested on.
A psychologist or psychiatrist though, he is tested on his knowledge of various hypotheses, nothing more. A psychology textbook is an entertaining read, and I have read a few, but authoritative they are not, and will never be.
Mental illness is diagnosed based on symptoms, not any “hard science” physical test, and every person on planet earth can be diagnosed with something or other in the massive DSM listings, the symptoms can be stretched to include anything and everything.
Reading the DSM listings is good entertainment.
So when I say that I believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, that is based on my own authority based on my own logic based on my knowledge of the facts of biological life being that anything counter-reproduction is a biological malfunction.
The psychological “authorities” in the Ivory Towers can continue adding a new mental illness to the DSM every 5 minutes, good for them they are paid to keep Big Pharma raking in the cash, gotta keep the populace doped up and any old excuse will do.
You feel sad?
We got a pill for that.
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Way to go to extremes again Chain. Feel proud!
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” The circulatory system can be mapped, the functions of red blood cells and white blood cells ascertained, the muscles of the heart dissected and black-and-white fact or fiction can be established, and that “hard science” is what a cardiologist is tested on.”
Gee, yet with all that black and white fact or fiction (imaginative belief on your part) we still have heart disease.
Shame…
I bet the cardiologists wish you were there to tell them the one absolute truth.
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I never said that every fact has been discovered about the physical body,.
From my spiritual worldview I do not believe that it is possible for man to completely eliminate disease.
The causes for disease an be pinpointed, treatments developed, but to eliminate disease would mean the elimination of biological life entirely.
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You’ve added a new twist to the narrative here Chain. Congrats.
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You tried to use the Cardiologist and our understanding of heart physiology as some sort of proof that your black-and-white thinking = real logic error is somehow valid.
Fail.
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Chainmaker, you are not alone. Many, if not most, individuals who suffer from psychosis find accepting that they have a disorder the hardest part.
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PS, you’re beginning to sound like your “friend” Daciple when he calls higher education “indoctrination boot camps”
lol
I wonder if he’d refuse treatment from a surgeon if he ever had a life threatening injury.
“No Doc, I don’t want you to patch up my head … you went to an indoctrination boot camp! Give me someone that is self taught!”
lol
One thing that I wish he would be “indoctrinated” into, is better use of grammar and syntax.
Reading him is painful.
you’re willfully ignorant this
you’re willfully ignorant that {repetition of stock phrases}
if you don’t believe this particular interpretation of scripture you’re willfully ignorant….blah blah. {if then logical fallacies}
It’s not so bad that he has this one individual tactic if he were to just get to the point, but the repetitive message in the same message and the run on sentences can really cause genuine head pain to the reader trying to parse meaning.
Can you do something about that? I give you one thing. Despite your anger shining through like polished metal, you write 100x better than your “friend” 😉
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He is dyslexic, cut him some slack please.
Trust me, I feel the same way you do, reading his writing is somewhat painful sometimes lol.
He definitely does often write way more than necessary, but his spelling has greatly improved at least.
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Dyslexia is not considered an intellectual disability and there are thousands of examples of dyslexics that can write with flow and convey good meaning. So sorry I don’t consider it an excuse for writing poorly. Dyslexia is a learning disability that impairs an individuals ability for fluency and comprehension in reading.
“”Dyslexia is a brain-based type of learning disability that specifically impairs a person’s ability to read. These individuals typically read at levels significantly lower than expected despite having normal intelligence. Although the disorder varies from person to person, common characteristics among people with dyslexia are difficulty with spelling, phonological processing (the manipulation of sounds), and/or rapid visual-verbal responding. In adults, dyslexia usually occurs after a brain injury or in the context of dementia. It can also be inherited in some families and so on, and recent studies have identified a number of genes that may predispose an individual to developing dyslexia”.[1]”
so it’s primarily a reading comprehension impairment, which explains a lot, but it’s not a writing disorder.
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He certainly is not able to read as fast as I can, and he has trouble spelling, however he spends plenty enough time on what he reads to fully comprehend it.
He definitely forms coherent thoughts and logical arguments, his writings are just not….smooth.
Writing is a talent some are naturally better at than others. Many intelligent people struggle to smoothly convey their thoughts.
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It can be inherent or a drug induced issue too.
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Vc claims to censor comments that are “off topic” the funny thing is there are many people who go off topic and their comments don’t get deleted.If you type or post a link that has information about Vc being a disinfo,it will get deleted even on the facebook fan page and quite a few people are blocked from the fan page for having an opinion.If you type anything that goes against the articles,it will get deleted in less than 24 hours.Its really strange that constructive criticism is not allowed.This guy definately has something to hide.
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Yep, the problems between Daciple and Vigilant started when Daciple made posts in the article comments attacking statements in the article that gave the impression that Satan does not exist as a literal entity.
Daciple got comments deleted back then, nothing has changed.
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did this happen to coincide with when Daciple started getting emails, curiously?
FP made an awesome post (or comment) that had the term “smoking gun”… you should look it up…
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No, Daciple did not start getting the harassing emails until the aftermath of his fallout with Toby on TruthFiles.
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“If I am going to be involved in a debate about myself, I am going to take the opportunity to fully express myself.”
You really couldn’t make this stuff up!
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A very interesting article:
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/exist.htm
Does Mental Illness Exist?
by Lawrence Stevens, J.D.
All diagnosis and treatment in psychiatry, especially biological psychiatry, presupposes the existence of something called mental illness, also known as mental disease or mental disorder. What is meant by disease, illness, or disorder? In a semantic sense disease means simply dis-ease, the opposite of ease. But by disease we don’t mean anything that causes a lack of ease, since this definition would mean losing one’s job or a war or economic recession or an argument with one’s spouse qualifies as “disease”. In his book Is Alcoholism Hereditary? psychiatrist Donald W. Goodwin, M.D., discusses the definition of disease and concludes “Diseases are something people see doctors for. … Physicians are consulted about the problem of alcoholism and therefore alcoholism becomes, by this definition, a disease” (Ballantine Books, 1988, p. 61). Accepting this definition, if for some reason people consulted physicians about how to get the economy out of recession or how to solve a disagreement with one’s mate or a bordering nation, these problems would also qualify as disease. But clearly this is not what is meant by “disease”. In his discussion of the definition of disease, Dr. Goodwin acknowledges there is “a narrow definition of disease that requires the presence of a biological abnormality” (ibid). In this pamphlet I will show that there are no biological abnormalities responsible for so-called mental illness, mental disease, or mental disorder, and that therefore mental illness has no biological existence. Perhaps more importantly, however, I will show that mental illness also has no non-biological existence – except in the sense that the term is used to indicate disapproval of some aspect of a person’s mentality.
The idea of mental illness as a biological entity is easy to refute. In 1988, Seymour S. Kety, M.D., Professor Emeritus of Neuroscience in Psychiatry, and Steven Matthysse, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Psychobiology, both of Harvard Medical School, said “an impartial reading of the recent literature does not provide the hoped-for clarification of the catecholamine hypotheses, nor does compelling evidence emerge for other biological differences that may characterize the brains of patients with mental disease” (The New Harvard Guide to Psychiatry, Harvard Univ. Press, p. 148). In 1992 a panel of experts assembled by the U.S. Congress Office of Technology Assessment concluded: “Many questions remain about the biology of mental disorders. In fact, research has yet to identify specific biological causes for any of these disorders. … Mental disorders are classified on the basis of symptoms because there are as yet no biological markers or laboratory tests for them” (The Biology of Mental Disorders, U.S. Gov’t Printing Office, 1992, pp. 13-14, 46-47). In his book The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs, Columbia University psychiatry professor Jack M. Gorman, M.D., said “We really do not know what causes any psychiatric illness” (St. Martin’s Press, 1990, p. 316). In his book The New Psychiatry another Columbia University psychiatry professor, Jerrold S. Maxmen, M.D., said “It is generally unrecognized that psychiatrists are the only medical specialists who treat disorders that, by definition, have no definitively known causes or cures. … A diagnosis should indicate the cause of a mental disorder, but as discussed later, since the etiologies of most mental disorders are unknown, current diagnostic systems can’t reflect them” (Mentor, 1985, pp. 19 & 36 – emphasis in original). In his book Toxic Psychiatry, psychiatrist Peter Breggin, M.D., said “there is no evidence that any of the common psychological or psychiatric disorders have a genetic or biological component” (St. Martin’s Press, 1991, p. 291).
It is sometimes argued that psychiatric drugs “curing” (stopping) the thinking, emotions, or behavior that is called mental illness proves the existence of biological causes of mental illness. This argument is easily refuted: Suppose someone was playing the piano and you didn’t like him doing that. Suppose you forced or persuaded him to take a drug that disabled him so severely that he couldn’t play the piano anymore. Would this prove his piano playing was caused by a biological abnormality that was cured by the drug? As senseless as this argument is, it is often made. Most if not all psychiatric drugs are neurotoxic, producing a greater or lesser degree of generalized neurological disability. So they do stop disliked behavior and may mentally disable a person enough he can no longer feel angry or unhappy or “depressed”. But calling this a “cure” is absurd. Extrapolating from this that the drug must have cured an underlying biological abnormality that was causing the disliked emotions or behavior is equally absurd.
When confronted with the lack of evidence for their belief in mental illness as a biological entity, some defenders of the concept of mental illness will assert that mental illness can exist and can be defined as a “disease” without there being a biological abnormality causing it. The idea of mental illness as a nonbiological entity requires a more lengthy refutation than the biological argument.
People are thought of as mentally ill only when their thinking, emotions, or behavior is contrary to what is considered acceptable, that is, when others (or the so-called patients themselves) dislike something about them. One way to show the absurdity of calling something an illness not because it is caused by a biological abnormality but only because we dislike it or disapprove of it is to look at how values differ from one culture to another and how values change over time.
In his book The Psychology of Self-Esteem, Nathaniel Branden, Ph.D., a psychologist, wrote: “One of the prime tasks of the science of psychology is to provide definitions of mental health and mental illness. …But there is no general agreement among psychologists and psychiatrists about the nature of mental health or mental illness – no generally accepted definitions, no basic standard by which to gauge one psychological state or other. Many writers declare that no objective definitions and standards can be established – that a basic, universally applicable concept of mental health is impossible. They assert that, since behavior which is regarded as healthy or normal in one culture may be regarded as neurotic or aberrated in another, all criteria are a matter of ‘cultural bias.’ The theorists who maintain this position usually insist that the closest one can come to a definition of mental health is: conformity to cultural norms. Thus, they declare that a man is psychologically healthy to the extent that he is ‘well-adjusted’ to his culture. … The obvious questions that such a definition raises, are: What if the values and norms of a given society are irrational? Can mental health consist of being well-adjusted to the irrational? What about Nazi Germany, for instance? Is a cheerful servant of the Nazi state – who feels serenely and happily at home in his social environment – an exponent of mental health?” (Bantam Books, 1969, pp. 95-96, emphasis in original). Dr. Branden is doing several things here: First, he is confusing morality and rationality, saying that respect for human rights is rational when in fact it is not a question of rationality but rather of morality. So psychologically and emotionally locked into and blinded by his values is he that Dr. Branden is evidently incapable of seeing the difference. Additionally, Dr. Branden is stating some of his values. Among these values are: Respect for human rights is good; violation of human rights (like Naziism) is bad. And he is saying: Violating these values is “irrationality” or mental illness. Although their practitioners won’t admit it and often are not even aware of it, psychiatry and “clinical” psychology in their very essence are about values – values concealed under a veneer of language that makes it sound like they are not furthering values but promoting “health”. The answer to the question Dr. Branden poses is: A person living in Nazi Germany and well-adjusted to it was “mentally healthy” judged by the values of his own society. Judged by the values of a society which respects human rights he was as sick (metaphorically speaking) as the rest of his culture. A person like myself however says that such a person is morally “sick” and recognizes that the word sick has not its literal but a metaphorical meaning. To a person like Dr. Branden who believes in the myth of mental illness, such a person is literally sick and needs a doctor. The difference is that a person like myself is recognizing my values for what they are: morality. Typically, the believer in mental illness, such as Dr. Branden in this quoted passage, has the same values as I do but is confusing them with health.
One of the most telling examples is homosexuality, which was officially defined as a mental disease by the American Psychiatric Association until 1973 but hasn’t been since then. Homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder on page 44 of the American Psychiatric Association’s standard reference book, DSM-II: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the 2nd Edition), published in 1968. In that book, “Homosexuality” is categorized as one of the “Sexual deviations” on page 44. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association voted to remove homosexuality from it’s official diagnostic categories of mental illness. (See “An Instant Cure”, Time magazine, April 1, 1974, p. 45). So when the third edition of this book was published in 1980 it said “homosexuality itself is not considered a mental disorder” (p. 282). The 1987 edition of The Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy states: “The American Psychiatric Association no longer considers homosexuality a psychiatric disease” (p. 1495). If mental illness were really an illness in the same sense that physical illnesses are illnesses, the idea of deleting homosexuality or anything else from the categories of illness by having a vote would be as absurd as a group of physicians voting to delete cancer or measles from the concept of disease. But mental illness isn’t “an illness like any other illness.” Unlike physical disease where there are physical facts to deal with, mental “illness” is entirely a question of values, of right and wrong, of appropriate versus inappropriate. At one time homosexuality seemed so weird and hard to understand it was necessary to invoke the concept of mental disease or mental illness to explain it. After homosexuals made a big enough spectacle of themselves and showed their “strength in numbers” and successfully demanded at least a small measure of social acceptance, it was no longer necessary and no longer seemed appropriate to explain homosexuality as a disease.
A cross-cultural example is suicide. In many countries, such as the United States and Great Britain, a person who commits suicide or attempts to do so or even thinks about it seriously is considered mentally ill. However, this has not always been true throughout human history, nor is it true today in all cultures around the world. In his book Why Suicide?, psychologist Eustace Chesser points out that “Neither Hinduism nor Buddhism have any intrinsic objections to suicide and in some forms of Buddhism self-incineration is believed to confer special merit.” He also points out that “The Celts scorned to wait for old age and enfeeblement. They believed that those who committed suicide before their powers waned went to heaven, and those who died of sickness or became senile went to hell – an interesting reversal of Christian doctrine” (Arrow Books Ltd., London, England, 1968, p. 121-122). In his book Fighting Depression, psychiatrist Harvey M. Ross, M.D., points out that “Some cultures expect the wife to throw herself on her husband’s funeral pyre” (Larchmont Books, 1975, p. 20). Probably the best known example of a society where suicide is socially acceptable is Japan. Rather than thinking of suicide or “hara-kiri” as the Japanese call it as almost always caused by a mental disease or illness, the Japanese in some circumstances consider suicide the normal, socially acceptable thing to do, such as when one “loses face” or is humiliated by some sort of failure. Another example showing suicide is considered normal, not crazy, in Japanese eyes is the kamikaze pilots Japan used against the U.S. Navy in World War II. They were given enough fuel for a one-way trip, a suicide mission, to where the attacking U.S. Navy forces were located and deliberately crashed their airplanes into the enemy ships. There has never been an American kamikaze pilot, at least, none officially sponsored by the United States government. The reason for this is different attitudes about suicide in Japan and America. Could suicide be committed only by people with psychiatric illnesses in America and yet be performed by normal persons in Japan? Or is acceptance of suicide in Japan a failure or refusal to recognize the presence of psychological abnormalities which necessarily must be present for a person to voluntarily end his or her own life? Were the kamikaze pilots mentally ill, or did they and the society they come from simply have different values than we do? Even in America, aren’t virtually suicidal acts done for the sake of one’s fellow soldiers or for one’s country during wartime thought of not as insanity but as bravery? Why do we think of such persons as heros rather than lunatics? It seems we condemn (or “diagnose”) suicidal people as crazy or mentally ill only when they end their own lives for selfish reasons (the “I can’t take it any more” kind of reasons) rather than for the benefit of other people. The real issue seems to be selfishness rather than suicide.
What these examples show is that “mental illness” is simply deviance from what people want or expect in any particular society. “Mental illness” is anything in human mentality greatly disliked by the person describing it.
The situation was aptly summed up in an article in the November 1986 Omni magazine: “Disorders come and go. Even Sigmund Freud’s concept of neurosis was dropped in the original DSM-III (1980). And in 1973 APA [American Psychiatric Association] trustees voted to wipe out almost all references to homosexuality as a disorder. Before the vote, being gay was considered a psychiatric problem. After the vote the disorder was relegated to psychiatry’s attic. ‘It’s a matter of fashion,’ says Dr. John Spiegel of Brandeis University, who was president of the APA in 1973, when the debate over homosexuality flared. ‘And fashions keep changing'” (p. 30).
What is wrong with this approach is describing people as having a psychiatric “disease” or “illness” only because he or she doesn’t match up with a supposed diagnostician’s or with other people’s idea of how a person “should” be in standards of dress, behavior, thinking, or opinion. When it involves violating the rights of others, nonconformity with social norms or values must be curbed or stopped with various measures, criminal law being one example. But calling nonconformity or disliked behavior a “disease” or assuming it must be caused by a disease only because it is unacceptable according to currently prevailing values makes no sense. What causes us to do this is not knowing the real reasons for the thinking, emotions, or behavior we dislike. When we don’t understand the real reasons, we create myths to provide an explanation. In prior centuries people used myths of evil spirit or demon possession to explain unacceptable thinking or behavior. Today most of us instead believe in the myth of mental illness. Believing in mythological entities such as evil spirits or mental illnesses gives an illusion of understanding, and believing a myth is more comfortable than acknowledging ignorance.
Calling disapproved thinking, emotions, or behavior a mental illness might be excusable if mental illness was a useful myth, but it isn’t. Rather than helping us deal with troubled or troublesome persons, the myth of mental illness distracts us from the real problems that need to be faced. Rather than being caused by a “chemical imbalance” or other biological problem, the nonconformity, misbehavior, and emotional reactions we call mental illness are the result of difficulties people have getting their needs met and the behavior some people have learned during their lifetimes. The solutions are teaching people how to get their needs met, how to behave, and using whatever powers of enforcement are needed to force people to respect the rights of others. These are the tasks of education and law enforcement, not medicine or therapy.
THE AUTHOR, Lawrence Stevens, is a lawyer whose practice has included representing psychiatric “patients”. He has published a series of pamphlets about various aspects of psychiatry, including psychiatric drugs, electroshock, and psychotherapy. His pamphlets are not copyrighted. You are invited to make copies for distribution to those you think will benefit.
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1996 UPDATE:
“… modern psychiatry has yet to convincingly prove the genetic/biologic cause of any single mental illness.” David Kaiser, M.D., Commentary: Against Biologic Psychiatry, December 1996 Psychiatric Times.
1997 UPDATE:
“We really do not know what causes any psychiatric illness.” Jack M. Gorman, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry at Columbia University, in his book The Essential Guide to Psychiatric Drugs – Third Edition (St. Martin’s Press, New York, 1997), p. 314. The same statement in the 1990 edition was quoted above in Mr. Stevens’ article, “Does Mental Illness Exist?”
1998 UPDATES:
“Contrary to what is often claimed, no biochemical, anatomical, or functional signs have been found that reliably distinguish the brains of mental patients.” Elliot S. Valenstien, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Neuroscience at the University of Michigan, in his book Blaming the Brain: The Truth About Drugs and Mental Health (The Free Press, New York, 1998), p. 125.
“…there are no external validating criteria for psychiatric diagnoses. There is neither a blood test nor specific anatomic lesions for any major psychiatric disorder.” From a letter dated December 4, 1998 by Loren R. Mosher, M.D., a psychiatrist, resigning from the American Psychiatric Association.
1999 UPDATES:
“… all 5 million to 6 million children on these drugs [for hyperactivity] are normal. The country’s been led to believe that all painful emotions are a mental illness and the leadership of the APA [American Psychiatric Association] knows very well that they are representing it as a disease when there is no scientific data to confirm any mental illness.” Neurologist Fred Baughman, quoted in Insight magazine, June 28, 1999, p. 13 (underline added).
“…there is no evidence that these mental illnesses, such as ADHD, exist.” Psychiatrist Peter Breggin, quoted in Insight magazine, June 28, 1999, p. 13. ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
2000 UPDATES:
“In medicine, strict criteria exist for calling a condition a disease. In addition to a predictable cluster of symptoms, the cause of the symptoms or some understanding of their physiology must be established. … Psychiatry is unique among medical specialties in that… We do not yet have proof either of the cause or the physiology for any psychiatric diagnosis. … In recent decades, we have had no shortage of alleged biochemical imbalances for psychiatric conditions. Diligent though these attempts have been, not one has been proven. Quite the contrary. In every instance where such an imbalance was thought to have been found, it was later proven false. … No claim of a gene for a psychiatric condition has stood the test of time, in spite of popular misinformation.” Joseph Glenmullen, M.D., clinical instructor in psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, in his book Prozac Backlash (Simon & Schuster, New York, 2000), pages 192-193, page 196, and page 198.
“A disease is a condition that has a known cause and can be identified by one or another set of laboratory tests.” Miryam Ehrlich Williamson, Fibromyalgia: A Comprehensive Approach, 2000, Chapter 1.
“There is no evidence that any psychiatric or psychologial disorder is caused by a biochemical imbalance.” Peter R. Breggin, M.D., in his book Reclaiming Our Children (Persues Books, Cambridge, Mass., 2000), page 139.
“First, no biological etiology has been proven for any psychiatric disorder (except Alzheimer’s disease, which has a genetic component) in spite of decades of research. … So don’t accept the myth that we can make an ‘accurate diagnosis.’ … Neither should you believe that your problems are due solely to a ‘chemical imbalance.'” Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at Seacoast Mental Health Center in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, in his book The Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New York, 2000), pages 15-16. Dr. Drummond graduated from Tufts University School of Medicine and was trained in psychiatry at Harvard University.
2001 UPDATE:
“Remember that no biochemical, neurological, or genetic markers have been found for attention deficit disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, compulsive alcohol and drug abuse, overeating, gambling, or any other so-called mental illness, disease, or disorder.” Bruce Levine, Ph.D. (psychologist), Commonsense Rebellion: Debunking Psychiatry, Confronting Society (Continuum, New York 2001), p. 277.
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More interesting articles:
Why I Never Recommend Psychiatric Medications – by Douglas C. Smith, M.D.
On Ritalin and “Hyperactivity Disorder” – Peter R. Breggin, M.D.
How Drug Company Money Has Corrupted Psychiatry – Loren R. Mosher, M.D.
Unethical Psychiatrists Misrepresent What is Known About Schizophrenia – by Al Siebert, Ph.D.
Only You Can Cure Yourself – Ann Lawson
Why Outpatient Commitment Laws Change (Almost) Nothing – by Douglas A. Smith
Why Mental Patients Should Have the Same Constitutional Rights as Criminals – and Why Involuntary Commitment for “Dangerousness” is Wrong
25 Good Reasons Why Psychiatry Must Be Abolished – by Don Weitz of Toronto, Ontario
Notes on Psychiatric Fascism by Don Weitz of Toronto, Ontario
The Non-Violence Philosophy of Mahatma Gandhi Applied to Psychiatry
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cool story bro.
Everyone who read through this say Aye
?
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 7:
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The “A” Team
You believe that it was an attempt to “smear” you because you cannot accept the obvious; that your mind fabricates meaning where none exist.
on 30/01/2012 at 05:16 Chainmaker
No, I would say that the whole post there is meant to mock, ridicule and smear me, complete with a funny picture.
on 30/01/2012 at 06:48 The “A” Team
I know you would say that. It’s because you suffer from paranoia and a persecution complex.
on 30/01/2012 at 12:18 Chainmaker
Yeah…I don’t really think there’s any paranoia involved.
Ayaka wrote:
“Also, the banning of Adam C. Madison was one of the best days of my life. I used to want to get the urge to reach my hand in the computer screen and strangle the living hell out of the bastard.
As for Chainmaker, Bible thumpers like him piss me off. I’ve had many problems with those people throughout my life.
I get great joy out of the misery of people I hate and Adam C. Madison was one of them.”
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and again:
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That perception of oneself is textbook delusion of grandeur.
If the shoe fits….
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Every Muslim is supposed to follow the Sunnah, or example, of Mohammed, they are supposed to seek to emulate Mohammed’s teachings and actions.
If that goal qualifies as “delusion of grandeur” then every Muslim is delusional.
The very definition of “Christian” is being a follower of Christ, a person who seeks to emulate, or mimic the teachings and actions of Jesus.
If that goal is “delusion of grandeur”, then every Christian is delusional.
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Hey A-Team and Chainmaker,
Just to mention, you guys definitely lost me with your pages long comments and quotations and intellectual pissing contest. I may come back to Chainmaker’s response to me, especially for the disrespectful way he treated my personal experience with the unknown. If and whenever I find time and muse to do so.
Cheers, Chaukee
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There it is Chauk, there’s your sacred cow.
The way you feel right now is the way the Muslim feels when you say that his Qur’an contains immoral commands.
I gave my honest opinion of your demonic attack, I spoke the truth as I see it, and you see that as disrespect.
I do not lie to people to make them feel good about false beliefs.
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Rather you lie about people, to spread your poison.
Most disorders are deep rooted in childhood.
I’m sure you can dig up something to spread hate on that too.
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So if I were to disagree with that statement, my disagreement would automatically be considered “hate”?
Anyway, I do agree that childhood experiences have a strong effect on adult psychology, and trauma has a massive effect.
However, I believe that the larger influence is genetically hard-wired.
Can you please define for me, what is it that I have said that you specifically consider to be “poison”?
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The Best of Chainmaker Part 8:
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Ayaka wrote:
“Also, the banning of Adam C. Madison was one of the best days of my life. I used to want to get the urge to reach my hand in the computer screen and strangle the living hell out of the bastard.
As for Chainmaker, Bible thumpers like him piss me off. I’ve had many problems with those people throughout my life.
I get great joy out of the misery of people I hate and Adam C. Madison was one of them.”
———————–
Ayaka wrote: Hey, look when I wrote it.
I was pissed off at the time because of VC’s unfair treatment of users that question. People are known to say a lot of things when they get pissed, okay.
It was a depressing time for me.
Yeesh.
And YES Chainmaker, I was paranoid at the time thanks to people like YOU always telling me I’m going to hell for everything I say, think, or even do. Can you believe the number of stuff I had to throw out just to please you fundamentalist types. Now I pretty much own nothing. Thank you, fundamentalist! Mr. “I am a Jesus mimic.”
According to people like YOU, everyone who doesn’t follow YOUR personal ideas of Christianity is going to hell. You’ve bashed Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and even other Christians, which you consider to be “fake Christians’. AND WHO ARE YOU TO TELL PEOPLE WHAT TO BELIEVE?!
No wonder why Chirstians are hated so much and have such a negative reputation. It’s because of fundamentalist like you.
I sometimes sit there and ask myself “What would Jesus think?”. I’m pretty sure that Jesus taught out of love and respect, not hatred. It doesn’t take an idiot to figure that one out.
As for the sane Christians (Your so-called “fake Chrisitans”), I feel pretty sorry for those people because they aren’t taken seriously when they mention their beliefs because the fundamentalist have made ever Christian look like they are crazy to the mainstream eye. When I mean sane Christians, I mean ones who preach out of love, not hate. I have not any problems with those types of Christians. It’s the fundamentalist, which I called “Bible thumpers” in the comment you quoted from, that I have problems with.
and here’s the comment where I mentioned my mental confilct in great detail:
“It looks like I’m not the only one who started feeling paranoid after seeing all of these symbols and images for a long period of time.
I remember that once I started getting into the symbols a little too deeply, I became very paranoid and threw out everything I owned that had the slightest symbol on it. If it had a Sun on it, it went out. An eye, Hello Kitty, an owl, a skull, a triangle, hearts, butterflies, swirls, stars, animal prints, the color pink, a black and white color scheme or even Disney characters? Those were also quickly thrown out. To me at the time all this stuff was evil and I would just about avoid all of it like the plague.
I even remember going into some Christian sites telling me that I was going straight to Hell just for wearing a Donald Duck t-shirt and that God didn’t like me because I happen to like that sun necklace that my mom gave to me when I was 10. It belonged to her when she was a teenager and she gave to me and told me to take good care of it. I remember I was going to throw it out a couple of months ago, but decided not to at the very last minute because I promised her I would keep it in good condition. You wouldn’t believe the number of things I threw out all because it had one little symbol on it.
I felt that if I owned this stuff, God would hate me even more and that if I threw it all out, I would go straight to heaven if I died because I thought I was liberating myself of the devil’s influences. The sad thing is that these symbols are everywhere, and by the time I through everything out, I basicaly owned nothing. I admit that I’m not a Christian, but I have been having this internal conflict in me for a while asking “Does God still like me even though I happen to like wearing that sun necklace or does God hate me because of that? What does God like me for? Have I been rejected by God? How do I improve myself so that God like me?” It’s almost like I was at war with God. I even admit that this question was also driving me towards suicide. Does anyone here know the answer?
Were sites like VC planting fear mongering into my mind to drive myself into suicide? That I don’t know.”
…
“Can you believe that I would even hide in fear over the slightest little symbol? It’s like I was becoming afraid of the symbols. I was even starting to develop a phobia of mirrors, dolls, glass, lions, owls, and eagles all because they are either occult symbols or used for mind control. I was never even afraid of thing like that until I started looking at those sites. Not to mention that looking at these symbols for long periods of time gives me severe headaches and I have to stop for a while.
No, I’m not looking to start any pointless drama (I’m long past that dribble.), but I’m just pondering another question about the agenda behind VC and other similar sites. It’s almost like as if they are intentionally making us afraid of these things, which therefore will stop us from living our own lives and end up eventually killing ourselves. Is it possible that these symbol sites are part of the elite’s plan in eugenics? That’s the question that I’m asking.”
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I’m sorry to hear that you got paranoid and threw a lot of stuff away. I certainly never told anyone to throw anything away. Who exactly was the Christian fundamentalist who told you to throw away stuff?
Occult symbols are only occult symbols because occultists use the symbol with an occult meaning. A triangle on your shirt is not an Illuminati pyramid, and a checkerboard pattern on a bed sheet is not Masonic, unless you bought the shirt or the sheet because you yourself associate those symbols with their occult meanings.
Now here’s the interesting thing Ayaka, I don’t preach hatred of people, I claim to hate evil sinful behaviors and evil belief systems that according to the Bible will lead people to hell.
You on the other hand, said that you had intense violent urges against Adam C. Madison, and said that you gain pleasure from the misery of people you hate. That is called sadism. You had me lumped in there right along with Adam.
No one will probably go after you for making these scary comments, instead we will hear from A Team that I am the scary and dangerous psychotic, because I offend Muslims by denouncing their child-molesting false prophet.
Ayaka, my ideas about Christianity are simply what the Bible says. The Bible says that Jesus said that Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, and anyone else who rejects Jesus as the Son of God whose blood atones for sin are condemned.
That is not my “personal view”, that is what the Bible says. The Bible is the basis for Christianity.
Who am I to tell people what to believe? I am nobody, I don’t seek to force anyone to believe anything. I tell people what I believe and I tell them why I believe it. I tell people that I believe that they should believe as I do, because I believe that the Bible is the Word of God, and it is a good idea to listen to God.
Christians are commanded by Jesus to be “Bible thumpers” who tell people the Gospel(Good News). The good news and the bad news go together. The bad news is that everyone is going to hell. The good news is that Jesus can save people from going to hell.
Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
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Chain, you seem really angry right about now. Are you going to have another meltdown soon? Just curious. Maybe you should take another few days off?
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A Team, shouldn’t you be trying to diagnose Ayaka?
I think your psycho-babble would be better directed at trying to diagnose the self-admitted sadist with violent urges, not the guy preaching against child molestation.
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Hey Chainmaker,
Attacking modern psychology doesn’t bother me in the least, though your intensity does smack of someone that has been shaken by the truth of the matter.
Most bipolars do attack psychology in fact.
Admitting that someone has a disorder is one of the hardest things to do.
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BTW you know what’s interesting? The paradox in your actions. In one instance you lean on modern psychology for stating that homosexuality was a disorder some 25 years ago as a credible source for your belief that it is a mental disorder. In the next few rants you attack psychology.
Cherry Picking much?
lol
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It seems you missed my point entirely.
“So when I say that I believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, that is based on my own authority based on my own logic based on my knowledge of the facts of biological life being that anything counter-reproduction is a biological malfunction.
The psychological “authorities” in the Ivory Towers can continue adding a new mental illness to the DSM every 5 minutes, good for them they are paid to keep Big Pharma raking in the cash, gotta keep the populace doped up and any old excuse will do.”
My point is that I do not accept as fact those many hypotheses dictated by the psychological establishment.
Every psychology textbook is a work of political and philosophical pseudo-science.
The disorders that you seek to diagnose others with are inventions, they are the musings of the so-called “authorities”, and they exist only in the mind of the psychological cult. The DSM is their Bible, their religious text.
I am just as much as an authority on the mind as they are, having read textbooks from the psychological cult as well as many other tomes on philosophy and religion, and many other religious scriptures from various cultures, and having lived life and had my own experiences and made my own judgements on why people do what they do.
So what all this means is that your psycho-babble is not truly scientific, it is nothing more than opinion you have been indoctrinated with.
When the cardiologist makes a statement about the physical heart, he has justified authority over the common man’s knowledge of the heart, because he speaks of hard facts, not hypotheses. He uses physical tests to diagnose physical diseases.
When some random psychologist or psychologist wanna-be on some blog starts speaking textbook psycho-babble, it is wise to take it all with a grain of salt.
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I understand your motive for the attempted derail Chainmaker. I hit too close to home.
You want to believe you’re an expert on science, psychology, logic and spirituality
— delusions of grandeur —
You know very little on any of those topics. I can demonstrate that easily, and have already.
— self deception —
You don’t need to worry about demons deceiving you. You’ve deceived yourself better than any “demon” ever could.
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There has been no derail, it is a response to your egotism. This is an exposure that the emperor wears no clothes.
Your entire arguments have been based on the definitions of fake disorders dreamed up by Big Pharma’s troopers.
You do exactly what Dr. Schaler says the Psychological Gestapo does, you use your pseudo-scientific psycho-babble about these invented disorders as a weapon against people who disagree with you.
The APA has no authority, they are Big Pharma shills and their entire field is a joke scientifically, but not a joke economically.
I can pull out the silly DSM and start listing symptoms and slapping ridiculous charges of mental illness on you, but I don’t need to sink to that ridiculous nonsense to make my points.
Anybody who decides to spend any time reading about the subject is just as much an authority on psychology as some corporate shill with a PhD who admits to changing the definitions of mental illness to go with the “fashion of the times”.
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Sounds like you have been trained well to bully money out of the “patients”.
http://www.cchrstl.org/wordpress/2011/02/14/the-bipolar-disorder-hoax/
Bipolar disorder, right up there with ADHD as being one of the favorite hypothesized disorders used to make billions for Big Pharma ever since by diagnosing everybody and their mother with it and then selling them a bottle of legal dope.
“Bipolar disorder was first officially introduced into the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) in the 1980′s, but was largely considered to be an adult “disorder.”
In January 2002, the Medicine Journal reported: “The etiology (cause) and pathophysiology (the function or action of ‘’abnormal’ states in people) of bipolar disorder (BPD) have not been determined, and no objective biological markers exist that correspond definitively with the disease state.” Nor have any genes “been definitely identified” for bipolar disorder.
Pediatric neurologist Fred Baughman, Jr., wrote: “The fact of the matter is—and a fact to which the country had better wake up—is that there is no abnormality to be found in any of psychiatry’s ‘diseases’—not in infants, not in toddlers, not in preschoolers, not at any age. Without invented ‘diseases,’ the psychiatric-pharmaceutical cartel would have nothing to treat. These are normal children with disciplinary and educational problems that can and must be resolved without recourse to drugs. Deceiving and drugging is not the practice of medicine. It is criminal.”
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I don’t have patients, I don’t charge money for “bullying” anyone.
You really seem rattled that I’ve uncovered that you’ve likely induced borderline personality disorder due to your indulgence in hard drugs.
That really sucks.
Looks like I’ve “found your sacred cow” 😉
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I was never a heavy drug user, only rarely used hard drugs. It’s a huge percentage of the population that has done some partying in their youth, but you will grasp at anything you can to attack someone with.
Oh, you did some drugs a decade ago? That causes you to be a mental case.
Oh, you disagree with my religious views? You are irrational and refuse to listen to evidence. You are a mental case.
Oh, you responded to me calling you a mental case? That’s perseverance. You are a mental case.
Oh, you deny being a mental case? That’s self-deception. You are a mental case.
Do you understand how ridiculous you sound?
Borderline Disorder does not exist. It is a fantasy.
I have already said what I hold sacred, it is Jesus and the Bible.
I don’t understand why you think I would hold some mental disorder as being sacred.
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Funny how much you loved “psychology” when it agreed with you that homosexuality was a mental disorder. Now that I’ve shown you carry most of the characteristics of borderline personality disorder, you’re on a hard rant to discredit all things psychology related. 😀
You’ve been undressed again Chain. Your hatred gets the best out of you and you put your internal paradox all in black and white…lol
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I never said that I discredit all psychology. Psychology exists, but everything written about it is hypotheses, and culture, politics, religion and philosophy are inseparable from psychology and completely determine what is considered “mental illness”.
I gave my own opinion that homosexuality is actually a mental disorder, thus, I believe that mental disorder does exist.
What I am discrediting is your use of Big Pharma funded psycho-babble that you like to pretend is “fact” from the “authorities”.
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No one here told you that drugs were the answer to your problems. I certainly have not. That’s another product of your imagination, so you know your attack is being aimed in the wrong direction, like usual.
Your pharma rant, while extreme, is correct in that the pharmaceutical business is largely a business. That doesn’t mean that mental illness is non existent. That also does not mean that all drugs are automatically bad. Proper diagnosis and timely drug intervention saved a family member of mine. They didn’t need to stay on the drugs for long.
Seeing the trees from the woods would do you some good, but you’d have to lose the black and white thinking.
We can’t be like you though, and throw baby out with the bath water.
Black and white thinking is dangerous. You’re an example of how dangerous it is even in isolation. Your problems are certainly trauma and drug induced, IMO.
You’re hiding from yourself, you do have a mental disorder. That’s obvious.
You think you know better than all experts on all subjects:
Math
Logic
All branches of Science
Now medicine too?
— delusions of grandeur —
— irrational conspiracy theorist —
From Lesson 7
10. Enjoys zero credibility in expert communities;
Academics and professionals tend to ignore the story, treating it as too frivolous to invest their time and risk their personal authority in disproving.
11. Rebuttals provided by experts are ignored or accommodated through elaborate new twists in the narrative;
When experts do respond to the story with critical new evidence, the conspiracy is elaborated (sometimes to a spectacular degree) to discount the new evidence, often incorporating the rebuttal as a part of the conspiracy.’
{Discounting obvious evidence, making up obscure evidence}
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Having seen what the drugs do to people, I think the psychiatric drugs are bad, they are completely unnecessary and they either change people’s personalities into robots or they make people manic or they make people even more depressed, and there are a huge number of cases of people killing themselves after being put on the pills.
Now you can say Dr. Schaler has delusions of grandeur and is irrational for saying exactly what I am saying about psychiatry, and you would be in the majority, and the majority opinion isn’t worth a pinch of dirt to me.
Dr. Schaler enjoys zero credibility in expert communities, because the expert communities are all about money and politics not truth.
The 9/11 Truth movement enjoys zero credibility in expert communities, because the expert communities are all about money and politics not truth. They all must have delusions of grandeur thinking they know better what really happened.
The world in general is all about money and politics, not truth, because the world is in the hand of the Wicked One, and we are all have a problem with Total Depravity.
I do not accept as fact anything from anyone that does not make logical sense to me. I value my research and my own logic far above what some “authority” tells me. If the “authority” tells me something is fact and I think it through and look at the evidence and it makes sense to me, then I will accept it as fact. I will not accept anything at all as fact simply because some “authority” said so.
If you want to be a braindead follower of the “authorities” then that is your choice.
I think it is very sad.
“If man was meant to fly he would have been born with wings”
That’s what the “authority” said.
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Don’t take the drugs. Do you the psychology, learn to cope with whatever trauma has caused you to adopt the filters you have that dominate the way you see the world. It’s unhealthy Brian.
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I don’t know if I should laugh , cry, or nap.
How much more of this intellectual nintendo will be played? Because we all know chainy boy is the type who would rather destroy the console than be beat.
This has been going on for months.
Dear A Team, are you ever going to present your findings regarding Toby and Datallion Jones?
or have we forgotten about that.
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Yeah A Team, everybody is sick and tired of reading about me, we want Episode 10: Wrath of the Psych Textbook Menace.
–waits for A Team to yet again keep this focused on me–
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The “A” Team on 09/01/2012
“I’m just waiting on one piece of communication before I present what I’ve discovered and before I do…”
You aren’t lying FP, it’s getting close to a month that A Team has been withholding information.
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Hey speak for yourself. I thoroughly enjoy watching Chainmaker get battered. This is better than the UFC. I will say one thing, Chainmaker keeps getting knocked da fukk out and keeps getting back up for more. I give you props for that Chainmaker even if it makes you no better than a punching bag, you can take a beating.
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Howdy Chainmaker,
Even though I have arrived at the point were I lost hope in reaching you with any of my words, like many people before me, I take the burden of replying to your fundamenalist and flawed reasoning. This is because I know there are other souls out there who read this and enjoy to be affirmed of the importance and precedence of human decency and the classic virtues. Thanks Ayaka, Berry and the A-Team for backing up my previous thoughts!
Chain: Many people have discovered questionable thinking patterns in yourself, here’s another one: Whenever you fear reasonable judgment from somebody, you get very aggressive in advance as to preemptively attack that person you fear.
Me: “I may come back to Chainmaker’s response to me, especially for the disrespectful way he treated my personal experience with the unknown.”
Chain: “There it is Chauk, there’s your sacred cow. The way you feel right now is the way the Muslim feels when you say that his Qur’an contains immoral commands. I gave my honest opinion of your demonic attack, I spoke the truth as I see it, and you see that as disrespect. I do not lie to people to make them feel good about false beliefs.”
It is sufficient to announce something against your great personal crusade to have you going and attack in a matter of minutes. I seriously think that you are VERY scared of being judged hardly by God one day because of 1. your former involvment in the occult, 2. your former use of hard drugs, 3. your criminal past, 4. the inability to feel and produce love inside you. Because of the serious flaws in your character you are very desperate in clinging to the allegation of the major new testament interpretation by the early catholic church that sais Jesus died on the cross for you and your sins are forgiven if you believe in this myth. With your past and your uneducated thinking I have some understanding of this. I have no prove for that, but a strong intuition built from reading between your lines. More psycho-talk you can try to attack, the A-Team showed how you switch positions when it suits your defense (pro/contra psychiatry). The video of Jeffrey A. Schaler was interesting in the sense of classical deception: He has a point about the unscientific, faschist, totalitarian ways that branch works for the main part. Where he is completely wrong and willfully confusing is A. the belittlement and relativization of mind diseases to only social differences to the majority. There are states of the mind that tend to harm other people or the patient itself, and there are states of mind the patient clearly suffers (ever had a strong depression?). Talking of moral relativism. And B: claiming there there is no found physical connection of mind diseases: Many mind diseases have a genetical component, as you even stated yourself, Chain, so at least some of them have a physical/brain foundation. This guy really sounded like another scientology blinded shill, even though I must admit he has some rhetoric skills. But as you are not obliged to consider any of the help that more experienced and educated people like you try to give you on the net, you can go on and make your own experiences with the fast conclusions you pull from any information that crosses your mind. Sad, but its your suffering.
“Chauk rejects the power and authority of Jesus Christ as the One and Only Son of God whose blood atones for sin, and instead of calling upon Jesus Christ Chauk called upon the Hindu god Krishna.”
A tiny little correction in the words you try to lay into my mouth: I do not reject the power and authority of Jesus, I am quite positive that he is God’s first and only son. But you’re absolutely right that I do not believe in the blood and carcass cult of fundamentalist christians.
To explain, please allow me to use a quote from wikipedia and question your instant salvation myth you believe in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation#Paradigms_of_salvation
“Different theories of atonement have been proposed for how Christian salvation can be understood. Over the centuries, Christians have held different ideas about how Jesus saved people, and different views still exist within different Christian denominations. The main paradigms of salvation that have been proposed are:Moral transformation. The moral transformation view was the predominant understanding of salvation among Christians during the first three centuries AD, and continues to be held by some denominations such as the Eastern Orthodox today. In this view, Jesus saved people from sinfulness through his life and teachings…In the moral transformation paradigm, a person is saved from sinfulness by faithfully following the teachings of Jesus, and the example he set of how to live…Christus Victor…Ransom from Satan…Statisfaction…Penal subsitution and faith”. You see, there are many interpretations of salvation through Jesus. If I and all the others you attacked being Satanists for deviation from your fundamentalist bible interpretation thus follow the doctrine of Moral transformation, we represent the same interpretation as early christians did, and we do not follow the New Age sources of Blavatsky and co.. You in contrast represent the interpretation of evil catholic church tyrants that came afterwards. Believing in that sick paradigma of Jesus’ sacrifice would mean for me to approve to the concept of sacrificing a human being, even (probably) God’s son. I believe sacrifice is almost as sick as child molestation. And contrary to you I don’t say this to make you feel bad, but to show the people out there that simple minded fundamentalist views can be battled.
Next one: “When you called for Krishna that demon relented in his attack because his mission to deceive was accomplished.”
Did I say demon, or grand theft or something similar 😉 No, I said “aetheric/interdimensional entity”. Because I cannot tell if it was a demon – it was transparent with a strong distortion (you could think of a little like in the Predator-movie) and tried to enter my mind very brutally (I’ve described the incident in more detail in my “About”-section). I’m even not sure if it all was real. But what was real is how fast it had to stop his attempt when I called upon the creator (I addressed God way beyond this universe, and he helped, and I am very thankful that we can all feel protected by him and his angels). But you, in a tense attempt of being right all the time, jumped to the conclusion that it was a demon who tried to decieve me. Really?! Deceive!? Like demons would sneak into one’s room and try to enter one’s brain to deceive.
Now why is your behaviour in this case disrespectful? You don’t know SHIT about what happened to me or what meaning it has to me and you weren’t there in the first place, and you also did not talk to the “demon”, whereas I’m not completely sure of that one 😉 . For you its a million times more important to spread your immoral bible interpretation than to respect the personal experience and judgment of somebody else.
I’ve also come to the point where I give it some probability that you are just another hate agent of VC or of a possible experiment running there in parallel. In a moment you sound so reasonable and have some points, in the next you turn like a schizophrenic (notice that I said “like”), its hard to believe that you are completely real. Imagine the following scenario: You had the order of VC to spread fundamentalist hate in the religious section to heat up the discussion and produce traffic. When he realized that the character “Chainmaker” started to hurt more than to help, he decided to “ban” that avatar and send you to this blog that is a real anguish to him (second place in google for “vigilant citizen” search). Here you can try to draw some traffic back to him and when things got calm over there you are miraculously recovered like the lost son, like Tweeterfist before you. Sounds weird? Sure it does, but thats the thoughts that come up when I read your careless attacks.
“The Tibetan has asked me to make clear that when he is speaking of the Christ he is referring to His official name as Head of the Hierarchy. The Christ . . . ; He does not belong to the Christian world any more than to the Buddhist, the Mohammedan or any faith. There is no need for any man to join the Christian Church in order to be affiliated with the Christ.Alice Bailey” (and so on).
You know, the spiritual tradition “Gaudiya Vaishnavism” Praphubada and thus Chaukeedaar are coming from is a bit older than the manipulative writings of the demon listener Bailey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudiya_Vaishnavism). As A-Team already stated, other religious sources get abused by these satanists, it does not qualify the original sources at all. There are other reasons why the vedantic sources are so important to them (like because they contain a deeper truth of spirituality than many parts of the bible and are thus a handy tool against the narrow mindedness of some christian world views), but I’m actually tired of trying to explain the world to an ignorant.
“What makes a Muslim a Muslim? I can answer that. A Muslim is a person who believes that “There is one God and Mohammed is his prophet”, and by extension that the Qur’an is the Word of God given to Mohammed as Mohammed claimed.”
Wrong, there you go again pulling your dogmatic thinking around the whole world: A Muslim is a muslim if he considers himself to be one.
“Please do not confuse hatred for an immoral belief system with hate for individuals who follow that belief system, or hate for an immoral action with hate of the individual who performed the action. Please do not confuse hatred for immorality with hatred for the free will that allows people to choose immorality.”
I do not confuse it and I’m happy that at least you got that lesson from life. What may be hard for you to consider is that I do not even feel hatred against the immoral belief system. I do not hate because MY Jesus wants me to love.
“I do not believe that my belief in the Old Testament leads me to any crimes against my fellow humans.”
Here you go:
– Call for holding slaves: Leviticus 25:44: “Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.”
http://gill.biblecommenter.com/leviticus/25.htm
– Exodus 21:7-10 says men can sell their daughters into slavery: “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.”
– Instructions for genocide, Deuteronomy 20:10-14 – “As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.”
Other examples of instructions for genocide: http://www.religioustolerance.org/imm_bibl3.htm
– Kill witches, Exodus 22:17: “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
– Kill homosexuals, Leviticus 18:22: “And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
– Kill unbelievers, Chronicles 15:12-13: “And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, 13 but that whoever would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.”
See also http://holysmoke.org/sdhok/hum20.htm: “All of these problems and others constitute clear evidence that the Bible is not the word of God. Instead of being infallible, the Bible has far more incorrect assertions and immoral teachings than are contained in most other books.”
Now I hope you see that you can be as immoral as a muslim fundamentalist by not cherry-picking the bible. And my statement originally made about muslim people is the same for you christians: “This does not exclude the possibility and fact of christian people who are very moral in their actions and thoughts. I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like muslim, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition – tools that our Father gave us to deal with the serpent and its lies.”
My last word on blind biblical faith for today: Do you think that God created that material universe of such immense size and complexity with billions of incarnated souls, with boundless experiences and lessons for everyone, to then all of a sudden give you an all-out option of salvation only if you believe in a specific doctrine found in a specific book on a specific planet? If yes, you are wrong. Jesus will save you by the spirit he brought here, not by his death.
God bless, Chaukee
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Howdy Chainmaker,
Even though I have arrived at the point were I lost hope in reaching you with any of my words, like many people before me, I take the burden of replying to your fundamenalist and flawed reasoning. This is because I know there are other souls out there who read this and enjoy to be affirmed of the importance and precedence of human decency and the classic virtues. Thanks Ayaka, Berry and the A-Team for backing up my previous thoughts!
Chain: Many people have discovered questionable thinking patterns in yourself, here’s another one: Whenever you fear reasonable judgment from somebody, you get very aggressive in advance as to preemptively attack that person you fear.
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Yeah, sure Chauk, if I do not submit to those who disagree with me, if I do not agree with them that my views are wrong, then when I defend my views from attack, when I defend myself against accusations meant to discredit not only myself, but meant to discredit the truth and relevance of the Biblical doctrine that I hold sacred, then that means I am pre-emptively attacking. My first post here was a response to attacks made on me by Femalepharoe, and it has progressed as I have responded to attacks made on me by primarily A Team.
Understand this: I do not fear you, or A Team, or any of the dozens of people I have had debates with on VC. I fear only God.
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” — Matthew 10:28
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Me: “I may come back to Chainmaker’s response to me, especially for the disrespectful way he treated my personal experience with the unknown.”
Chain: “There it is Chauk, there’s your sacred cow. The way you feel right now is the way the Muslim feels when you say that his Qur’an contains immoral commands. I gave my honest opinion of your demonic attack, I spoke the truth as I see it, and you see that as disrespect. I do not lie to people to make them feel good about false beliefs.”
It is sufficient to announce something against your great personal crusade to have you going and attack in a matter of minutes. I seriously think that you are VERY scared of being judged hardly by God one day because of 1. your former involvment in the occult, 2. your former use of hard drugs, 3. your criminal past, 4. the inability to feel and produce love inside you.
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Let’s get this straight Chauk. I gave my honest view about your belief system and your experience with a demon. My honest view is that your belief system is false and equal to that of Alice Bailey. My honest view is that you were fooled by a demon who attacked you and relented in the attack when you called upon a false god who is not the real God.
That is my view, and it is indeed an attack on your belief system. It is me saying that I do not respect your belief system as being truth.
You have done the same for the Muslims, you wrote:
“First, I’m no muslim and I will never be. To me, a religion that allows itself to suppress 50% of the population (women), treats pedophilia as cultural normality and kills people for their other believe systems ethically is not much higher than satanism itself.”
That is your honest view, and it is an attack on Islam.
I am not afraid of being judged by God for my past sins, because I believe that my sins are atoned for.
“because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the LORD, you will be clean from all your sins.” — Leviticus 16:30
“Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.” — Psalm 51:2
“1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” — 1 John 1:7
By telling you that your belief system is false, and preaching to you the Gospel(good news) of the doctrine of salvation only through the blood of Jesus, I am showing love to you Chauk.
You see that as hate, I see it as love. You and I have different perceptions of what is good, and what is evil.
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” — Isaiah 5:20
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Because of the serious flaws in your character you are very desperate in clinging to the allegation of the major new testament interpretation by the early catholic church that sais Jesus died on the cross for you and your sins are forgiven if you believe in this myth. With your past and your uneducated thinking I have some understanding of this. I have no prove for that, but a strong intuition built from reading between your lines.
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There it is Chauk, there is the big issue. I do indeed cling to the doctrine that salvation comes only through the blood of Jesus, and you call that a myth, it is a doctrine that you reject, and according to the Bible if you die rejecting it you will go to hell.
You show your uneducated ignorance when you call this an “interpretation of the early catholic church”. The Roman Catholic Church did not exist until hundreds of years after Jesus, the oppressive political Roman Catholic Church came into existence with the Roman Emperor Constantine.
“The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the position of the emperor as having some influence within the religious discussions going on within the Catholic Church of that time, e.g., the dispute over Arianism. Constantine himself disliked the risks to societal stability that religious disputes and controversies brought with them, preferring where possible to establish an orthodoxy.[209] The emperor saw it as his duty to ensure that God was properly worshipped in his empire, and that what proper worship consisted would be determined by the Church” — Wikipedia
Prior to Constantine there was no politically united Catholic church that told people what to believe. The books of the New Testament are dated to the first century, the doctrine of salvation through Jesus sacrifice is the basic doctrine of Christianity long hundreds of years before the existence of the Catholic Church, hundreds of years before any standardized Biblical canon was ever developed.
The same books are found in the canon of the Ethiopian church, which was developed separately from Rome and passed on through the centuries completely separate from Rome.
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More psycho-talk you can try to attack, the A-Team showed how you switch positions when it suits your defense (pro/contra psychiatry).
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No, I did not switch positions, I said that I believe mental illness exists, but that I do not accept the authority of modern psychology to dictate to me what constitutes mental illness. I reject the authority of the modern psychological establishment, I believe that they teach a great many lies. There is no contradiction there at all.
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The video of Jeffrey A. Schaler was interesting in the sense of classical deception: He has a point about the unscientific, faschist, totalitarian ways that branch works for the main part. Where he is completely wrong and willfully confusing is A. the belittlement and relativization of mind diseases to only social differences to the majority. There are states of the mind that tend to harm other people or the patient itself, and there are states of mind the patient clearly suffers (ever had a strong depression?). Talking of moral relativism. And B: claiming there there is no found physical connection of mind diseases: Many mind diseases have a genetical component, as you even stated yourself, Chain, so at least some of them have a physical/brain foundation. This guy really sounded like another scientology blinded shill, even though I must admit he has some rhetoric skills. But as you are not obliged to consider any of the help that more experienced and educated people like you try to give you on the net, you can go on and make your own experiences with the fast conclusions you pull from any information that crosses your mind. Sad, but its your suffering.
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There is one mental illness proven to have a genetic component. ONE. It is Alzheimer’s disease. That’s it.
You are right, I completely reject the “help” that A Team offers. A Team seeks to discredit me by posing as an educated authority, when in fact A Team is nothing but an a common member of the Psychological Gestapo, an indoctrinated fool marching along to the tune of the high priests of his cult, using imagined mental disorders as weapons to discredit those who he disagrees with on moral matters.
A Team would rather attack me for angering Muslims by speaking the truth about Mohammed, then do the right thing which to also speak the truth about Mohammed. A Team is on the wrong side.
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“Chauk rejects the power and authority of Jesus Christ as the One and Only Son of God whose blood atones for sin, and instead of calling upon Jesus Christ Chauk called upon the Hindu god Krishna.”
A tiny little correction in the words you try to lay into my mouth: I do not reject the power and authority of Jesus, I am quite positive that he is God’s first and only son. But you’re absolutely right that I do not believe in the blood and carcass cult of fundamentalist christians.
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That is not a tiny little correction. That is blasphemy, and it means that you do not accept the power and authority of Jesus, because you do not believe in the real Jesus.
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To explain, please allow me to use a quote from wikipedia and question your instant salvation myth you believe in:
“Different theories of atonement have been proposed for how Christian salvation can be understood. Over the centuries, Christians have held different ideas about how Jesus saved people, and different views still exist within different Christian denominations. The main paradigms of salvation that have been proposed are:Moral transformation. The moral transformation view was the predominant understanding of salvation among Christians during the first three centuries AD, and continues to be held by some denominations such as the Eastern Orthodox today. In this view, Jesus saved people from sinfulness through his life and teachings…In the moral transformation paradigm, a person is saved from sinfulness by faithfully following the teachings of Jesus, and the example he set of how to live…Christus Victor…Ransom from Satan…Statisfaction…Penal subsitution and faith”. You see, there are many interpretations of salvation through Jesus. If I and all the others you attacked being Satanists for deviation from your fundamentalist bible interpretation thus follow the doctrine of Moral transformation, we represent the same interpretation as early christians did, and we do not follow the New Age sources of Blavatsky and co.. You in contrast represent the interpretation of evil catholic church tyrants that came afterwards. Believing in that sick paradigma of Jesus’ sacrifice would mean for me to approve to the concept of sacrificing a human being, even (probably) God’s son. I believe sacrifice is almost as sick as child molestation. And contrary to you I don’t say this to make you feel bad, but to show the people out there that simple minded fundamentalist views can be battled.
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There are many interpretations of salvation through different concepts of who Jesus was and what he did.
There is only One Truth.
The early Christians did not believe that they saved themselves through moral transformation. The Bible is very clear about it, we are saved by faith in the sacrifice of Jesus, not through our own works.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” -Ephesians 2:8,9
The Epistle to the Ephesians was written long, long before any Catholic Church existed.
That verse says that you view that you can save yourself by morally transforming yourself, that you can save yourself by works, is EGO, it is worship of yourself, not God.
The Christian doctrine is that God saves men, Men do not save themselves. Men are doomed sinners without having the penalty for their sin paid by the Son of God.
If you reject that, you reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you reject having your sin-debt paid, you forfeit salvation, you go to hell which is where we all deserve to go.
You are preaching SELF-SALVATION, that is the very essence of Gnosticism, which is the essence of Blavatsky and Bailey’s teachings, it is the essence of all the neo-pagan/Hindu/Buddhist/New Age doctrine. It is seeking after Luciferian enlightenment.
The Gnostic gospels which preach that self-salvation are proven to have been written much later than Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the Epistles of the New Testament.
You hate the idea of blood sacrifice for sins? That is the central theme of Judaism going back thousands of years. YHWH demanded animal sacrifice to atone for sin, and the Son of God came down to offer himself as the perfect sacrifice.
You think that is immoral?
John 15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”
Jesus laid down his life for his friends as a sacrifice for them. There is no greater love than that.
John 15:23 “Whoever hates me hates my Father as well.”
You hate the Father for demanding justice? You hate him for demanding the sin-debt be paid? You think he is immoral to demand sacrifice to pay the sin-debt instead of just condemning all the sinners?
Then Jesus says you hate him just the same as you hate his Father.
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Next one: “When you called for Krishna that demon relented in his attack because his mission to deceive was accomplished.”
Did I say demon, or grand theft or something similar 😉 No, I said “aetheric/interdimensional entity”. Because I cannot tell if it was a demon – it was transparent with a strong distortion (you could think of a little like in the Predator-movie) and tried to enter my mind very brutally (I’ve described the incident in more detail in my “About”-section). I’m even not sure if it all was real. But what was real is how fast it had to stop his attempt when I called upon the creator (I addressed God way beyond this universe, and he helped, and I am very thankful that we can all feel protected by him and his angels). But you, in a tense attempt of being right all the time, jumped to the conclusion that it was a demon who tried to decieve me. Really?! Deceive!? Like demons would sneak into one’s room and try to enter one’s brain to deceive.
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You might not want to call that entity a demon, but I did, because that is what I call “aetheric/interdimensional entities” who brutally try to enter people’s minds.
de·mon/ˈdēmən/ Noun: An evil spirit or devil, esp. one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
The act of “brutally trying to enter your mind” is a negative act, not something that a good spirit does.
I gave my view based on my previous experiences with evil spirits, and based on Biblical doctrine concerning them, especially that they masquerade as angels of light and that Satan is the father of lies and seeks to deceive. Yes, really, the demons can execute attacks with the intention of deception, just like evil human elites can execute false flag attacks.
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Now why is your behaviour in this case disrespectful? You don’t know SHIT about what happened to me or what meaning it has to me and you weren’t there in the first place, and you also did not talk to the “demon”, whereas I’m not completely sure of that one 😉 . For you its a million times more important to spread your immoral bible interpretation than to respect the personal experience and judgment of somebody else.
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I know what you said happened to you, and I gave my view of it that opposes your view of it. You say you don’t fully understand what happened, so logically my view should be just as relevant as your view.
You are correct, it is more important to me to spread what I believe to be truth, than it is important to me to avoid offending people who disagree with my view.
Many Muslims have judged personally that the Qur’an is the righteous Word of God. You disrespect their personal experience and judgement with comments like this:
“First, I’m no muslim and I will never be. To me, a religion that allows itself to suppress 50% of the population (women), treats pedophilia as cultural normality and kills people for their other believe systems ethically is not much higher than satanism itself.”
You disrespect my personal experience and judgement with comments like this:
“Believing in that sick paradigma of Jesus’ sacrifice would mean for me to approve to the concept of sacrificing a human being, even (probably) God’s son. I believe sacrifice is almost as sick as child molestation. And contrary to you I don’t say this to make you feel bad, but to show the people out there that simple minded fundamentalist views can be battled.”
I have not said what I said about your beliefs for the purpose of making you feel bad, I have said what I have said because I believe it to be the truth. I do it to show people that the neo-pagan self-salvation blasphemy that you and Alice Bailey preach can be battled.
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I’ve also come to the point where I give it some probability that you are just another hate agent of VC or of a possible experiment running there in parallel. In a moment you sound so reasonable and have some points, in the next you turn like a schizophrenic (notice that I said “like”), its hard to believe that you are completely real. Imagine the following scenario: You had the order of VC to spread fundamentalist hate in the religious section to heat up the discussion and produce traffic. When he realized that the character “Chainmaker” started to hurt more than to help, he decided to “ban” that avatar and send you to this blog that is a real anguish to him (second place in google for “vigilant citizen” search). Here you can try to draw some traffic back to him and when things got calm over there you are miraculously recovered like the lost son, like Tweeterfist before you. Sounds weird? Sure it does, but thats the thoughts that come up when I read your careless attacks.
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That’s very imaginative, but I dont think that is following Occam’s Razor. I have been banned again more than once from VC already. Some names of mine have been ReefKrisket, MasteroftheObvious, and most recently liveitupanddown.
Vigilant is very similar to you Chauk, he is a person who muses about conspiracy theories regarding Satanist elites, but rejects fundamentalist Christianity while still associating himself with a bastardized Gnostic pagan fake Christianity, which is why he called himself “mystic Christian”, and which is why there has been much strife between Daciple and him, after Daciple gave his view that Vigilant’s views are wrong and are not Christian, the same as I have done for you. He gets offended when the fundamentalist Christians discredit what he says, and he now deals with the situation by refusing to say anything about his own religious beliefs, he just stands back and collects his advertisement checks and bans anyone who directly challenges him or who offends a large portion of his viewership, like me.
The “anti-proselytization” rule was established on VC because many people felt disrespected when Christians gave their Biblical views.
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“The Tibetan has asked me to make clear that when he is speaking of the Christ he is referring to His official name as Head of the Hierarchy. The Christ . . . ; He does not belong to the Christian world any more than to the Buddhist, the Mohammedan or any faith. There is no need for any man to join the Christian Church in order to be affiliated with the Christ.Alice Bailey” (and so on).
You know, the spiritual tradition “Gaudiya Vaishnavism” Praphubada and thus Chaukeedaar are coming from is a bit older than the manipulative writings of the demon listener Bailey. As A-Team already stated, other religious sources get abused by these satanists, it does not qualify the original sources at all. There are other reasons why the vedantic sources are so important to them (like because they contain a deeper truth of spirituality than many parts of the bible and are thus a handy tool against the narrow mindedness of some christian world views), but I’m actually tired of trying to explain the world to an ignorant.
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The Vedas are the writings of the Brahmins of the racist Indo-European Aryan Hindu culture, and they are not spiritual truth.
There is One God, who chose one people to reveal himself to, the Hebrews. He did not reveal himself to the Aryans who conquered the Dravidians and imposed a racist apartheid caste system on them, he did not reveal himself to the Aryan priests, the Brahmins, those egotists who believed they could enlighten themselves, those egotists who believed they were born higher on the reincarnation/karma ladder than everyone else.
Bailey and Blavatsky derived their beliefs from the Hindu/Buddhist tradition because they were rebelling against fundamentalist Christianity which is the truth and seeking out the pagan lies of Satan.
They did not corrupt anything about the Vedas, they brought the corruption of the Vedas into the West as part of Satan’s plan to destroy the Christianity of the West, they just did it a few decades earlier than Prabhupada did, they set the stage for the coming barrage of Hindu/Buddhist/neo-pagan/New Age beliefs in the West.
I’m sure you are aware that the Beatles, especially George Harrison, got involved with Hare Krishna, those same Beatles who put Aleister Crowley on their album cover and were instrumental in making New Age teachings popular in the West.
There is a battle being fought, and you are on the wrong side Chauk.
“Years ago I said that the war which may follow this one would be waged in the field of the world religions. Such a war will not work out, however, in a similar period of extreme carnage and blood; it will be fought largely with mental weapons and in the world of thought; it will involve also the emotional realm, from the standpoint of idealistic fanaticism. This inherent fanaticism (found ever in reactionary groups) will fight against the appearance of the coming world religion and the spread of esotericism. For this struggle certain of the well-organised churches, through their conservative elements (their most powerful elements), are already girding themselves. Those sensitive to the new spiritual impacts are still far from powerful; that which is new always faces the supreme difficulty of superseding and overcoming that which is old and established. Fanaticism, entrenched theological positions, and materialistic selfishness are to be found actively organised in the churches in all continents and of all denominations,” (Alice Bailey, The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p.453).”
“This does not exclude the possibility and fact of Muslim who are very moral in their actions and thoughts. I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like christians, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition……” — Chauk
But there’s nothing wrong with old scriptures according to you….if they are Vedas. There’s only something wrong with sticking to that doctrine of sin and forgiveness through sacrifice that the old Jewish and Christian Scripture preach, that same doctrine that Bailey despised.
“And when I talked about Christ-Consciousness I did not mean that twisted New Age bubbling I just looked up after Tweeterfist’s question, but that I dignify the teachings and the life of Jesus, and not that weird doctrin of salvation and supression of spirituality the churches created afterwards.” — Chauk
Yes you do mean that twisted New Age bubbling, you are in denial about it Chauk. The “suppression of spirituality” you refer to is the fundamentalist Christian rejection of the pagan false doctrines that Bailey sought to spread.
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“What makes a Muslim a Muslim? I can answer that. A Muslim is a person who believes that “There is one God and Mohammed is his prophet”, and by extension that the Qur’an is the Word of God given to Mohammed as Mohammed claimed.”
Wrong, there you go again pulling your dogmatic thinking around the whole world: A Muslim is a muslim if he considers himself to be one.
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Wrong.
I can consider myself to be a Nazi, but if I actually consider the Negro race to be supreme, I am not a Nazi, I am an idiot.
You can believe yourself to be an astronaut, and believing that doesn’t make it true.
Here is what you have to believe to be a Muslim:
http://www.muslimconverts.com/howtoconvert/
“To become a Muslim one must simply pronounce the Shahaadatayn (Declaration of Faith) with sincerity and conviction.
The Shahadah can be declared as follows:
“ASH-HADU ANLA ELAHA ILLA-ALLAH WA ASH-HADU ANNA MOHAMMADAN RASUL-ALLAH”.
The English translation is:
“I bear witness that there is no deity worthy to be worshiped but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger.”
If you do not believe in that Declaration of Faith, you are not a Muslim. It’s very black and white. Yes, very dogmatic.
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“Please do not confuse hatred for an immoral belief system with hate for individuals who follow that belief system, or hate for an immoral action with hate of the individual who performed the action. Please do not confuse hatred for immorality with hatred for the free will that allows people to choose immorality.”
I do not confuse it and I’m happy that at least you got that lesson from life. What may be hard for you to consider is that I do not even feel hatred against the immoral belief system. I do not hate because MY Jesus wants me to love.
“I do not believe that my belief in the Old Testament leads me to any crimes against my fellow humans.”
Here you go:
– Call for holding slaves: Leviticus 25:44: “Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.”
– Exodus 21:7-10 says men can sell their daughters into slavery: “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. 8 If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. 9 But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.”
– Instructions for genocide, Deuteronomy 20:10-14 – “As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.”
Other examples of instructions for genocide:
– Kill witches, Exodus 22:17: “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.”
– Kill homosexuals, Leviticus 18:22: “And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
– Kill unbelievers, Chronicles 15:12-13: “And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, 13 but that whoever would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.”
See also “All of these problems and others constitute clear evidence that the Bible is not the word of God. Instead of being infallible, the Bible has far more incorrect assertions and immoral teachings than are contained in most other books.”
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I am not under the Mosaic Law, Jesus Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was given to the Israelites as national, political law for the Israelite state. The killing of homosexuals and witches by the Mosaic Law in Jesus’ day was not immoral.
Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law and brought the New Covenant.
I am not commanded to enact judgement on non-Christians. Jesus will bring judgement on those who reject him and continue their sin.
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Now I hope you see that you can be as immoral as a muslim fundamentalist by not cherry-picking the bible. And my statement originally made about muslim people is the same for you christians: “This does not exclude the possibility and fact of christian people who are very moral in their actions and thoughts. I think they can as well progress on their spiritual journey towards salvation substantially like muslim, buddhists, hindus, american indians a.s.o. – if they avoid accepting instant solutions from old scripture, listen to their heart and intuition – tools that our Father gave us to deal with the serpent and its lies.”
My last word on blind biblical faith for today: Do you think that God created that material universe of such immense size and complexity with billions of incarnated souls, with boundless experiences and lessons for everyone, to then all of a sudden give you an all-out option of salvation only if you believe in a specific doctrine found in a specific book on a specific planet? If yes, you are wrong. Jesus will save you by the spirit he brought here, not by his death.
God bless, Chaukee
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I do not cherry-pick the Bible. There is an Old Covenant of God between the Hebrew/Israelite/Jews in the Old Testament, where they were given the Mosaic Law to follow and all the laws regarding animal sacrifices. They were commanded to destroy the human-sacrificing Canaanites when they invaded the Promised Land, and they were commanded to enact violent judgement on those who committed the worst sins among their own people. The Old Testament prophets prophesied the coming of the Messiah, and the bringing of a New Covenant for all people. Jesus is the Messiah who came and brought the New Covenant and brought new commandments for Christians.
The Qur’an has no Old and New Covenant, every command of the Qur’an applies to modern day Muslims, while the only commands of the Bible that apply to Christians are the commands of the New Testament.
There is One God who has provided One Way to be saved through his One Son Jesus, and no man can save himself through his own good deeds, that is the belief of the Satanic ego. All men have sinned and deserve the punishment for sin which is death.
Whatever religion or belief system you follow, you cannot save yourself by good deeds, and if you reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ you will be condemned.
“John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.”
God bless you too Chauk, that’s the One True God of Israel, not Allah of the Muslims, not Krishna, not Zeus or Jupiter or Quetzalcoatl.
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Do you realize how crazy you sound saying mental illness doesn’t exist because there is no scientifically measured biological source, while at the same time saying that demons exist which also doesn’t satisfy your criteria for discrediting mental illness?
If mental illness doesn’t exist because there is no measurable biological source, then the same applies for demons causing mental illness because it too has no scientifically measurable biological source.
Chauk and A Team correctly identified how quickly you change your mind depending on the argument. That’s why I previously said you are unstable.
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I never said that I do not believe that mental illness exists. I said that I do believe that mental illness exists.
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So if you agree that mental illnesses exist, and you display all the characteristics of one, why are you so afraid of it? There are non drug related treatments available that can help you cope with your problem you know.
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Please delete the first one Chauk, I took the opportunity to edit.
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Done!
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Did the Catholic Church change the Bible?
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You in contrast represent the interpretation of evil catholic church tyrants that came afterwards. Believing in that sick paradigma of Jesus’ sacrifice would mean for me to approve to the concept of sacrificing a human being, even (probably) God’s son. I believe sacrifice is almost as sick as child molestation. And contrary to you I don’t say this to make you feel bad, but to show the people out there that simple minded fundamentalist views can be battled.
………………………………………………………………………………………
Good point Chaukeedaar. The one thing that never ceases to amaze me is that these batshit insane fundamentalists, a term coined by Recure on VC, hate the Catholic Church with a passion for all the other non biblical associations to saints, praying to Mary and anything else that may resemble paganism like the use of beeds ***GASP*** but absolutely fail to realize that their fundamentalist doctrine is a fundamental factors of the Catholic Church.
Recure, who also TKO’d Chainmaker on the vigilant citizen forum said it best
“Umm, no. It’s your clueless self that doesn’t know what I meant by it. I was not attacking the doctrine, rather qualifying the fact that if it were not for this doctrine, you would not be a batshit insane fundamentalist. You implicated yourself.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&p=131481&hilit=batshit#p131481
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This is the second part of what Recure said about fundamentalism and I think he hit the nail on the head
“Fundamentalist Christianity presupposes doctrines which are, in fundamentalism, considered “Catholic”, i.e. pagan. Fundamentalism = circular logic. Circular logic is something I cannot stand.”
Your fundamentalist point of view, Chainmaster, is of Catholic origin. You’re still pulling on your Daddy’s pant legs, wanting to be a man of your own making but following in his footsteps. Step out of the shadow little man.
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and the third part after Chainmaster told Recure that he was wrong about what he himself wrote, ROTLFMAO
Not only does Chainmaster know better than any and all experts on any given subject because he is of course a Jesus Mimic and Christlike, thinking the he is infallible as well but he also knows what other people are really saying better than themselves…ROTLF
the whole conversation in full context…
Hexa…”You are as Recure stated: A kinder surprise Christian.”
Chainmaster…”You obviously have no clue what Recure meant by that. Recure was attacking the basic, literal doctrine of eternal life being the reward for Christians, he was attacking Christianity at its core, and this had nothing to do with scholars.”
Recure…”Umm, no. It’s your clueless self that doesn’t know what I meant by it. I was not attacking the doctrine, rather qualifying the fact that if it were not for this doctrine, you would not be a batshit insane fundamentalist. You implicated yourself.”
Chainmaster telling Recure that Recure didn’t understand what Recure was saying…”I disagree. I think you attacked the doctrine itself, and I explained why in that thread. As I said, your belief concerning this is no different than that of an atheist.”
Recure…”^Fundamentalist Christianity presupposes doctrines which are, in fundamentalism, considered “Catholic”, i.e. pagan. Fundamentalism = circular logic. Circular logic is something I cannot stand.”
Chainmaster…mixes in some truth with fantasies, “Fundamentalism is believing what the Bible literally says and putting it into practice. You believe that preaching the gospel as Jesus commanded is wrong. That is not fundamentalism, it is apostasy. You believe there is no God needed for moral living. That is not fundamentalism, it is apostasy. ”
Recure….”Presupposing the authority of the Bible, given it by the ancient Church, not by the various sects of Christianity, but the institutional Church. Let me guess, you’re going to say the authority of Scripture is inherent because, as such, they–well, some–were written by the very Apostles of Christ. Would you say that in spite of scholarly opinion that says that, for instance, the Gospel of John did not originate with the Apostle John, rather, an Anatolian community that had ties to the Apostle and preserved his teachings via oral tradition?”
Chainmaster….”Catholic means universal, not pagan. Many Roman Catholic doctrines are unBiblical and thus pagan.”
Recure…..” “Catholic” in reference to “universal” is never used by fundamentalists. It is evident that you’re using semantics to cover up the fact that you employ doctrines which were espoused by the authority of the “Catholic” (universal) Church which consisted of the archbishoprics of Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem and Constantinople, the first two having precedence over the rest. For example, your view of Jesus’ personhood is likely that of the post-Chalcedonian Church, rather than the Oriental Orthodox Church, which you have stated ‘split from the corrupt Church’.”
All here –
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&hilit=batshit&start=10
“Presupposing the authority of the Bible, given it by the ancient Church, not by the various sects of Christianity, but the institutional Church. Let me guess, you’re going to say the authority of Scripture is inherent because, as such, they–well, some–were written by the very Apostles of Christ. Would you say that in spite of scholarly opinion that says that, for instance, the Gospel of John did not originate with the Apostle John, rather, an Anatolian community that had ties to the Apostle and preserved his teachings via oral tradition?”
Chainmaster is the blind trying to lead other blind. I don’t think he has any followers outside of his imaginary friends though.
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Doctrines is read from the Bible, it is not applied to the Bible.
“because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the LORD, you will be clean from all your sins.” — Leviticus 16:30
“Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin.” — Psalm 51:2
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.”— 1 John 1:7
There are many more verses than that in the Bible that speak of atonement for sin. The first two are from the Old Testament, truly ancient.
1 John is dated at the late first century, along with the rest of the New Testament books that were being used by early Christians.
That doctrine is fundamental Christianity, the Catholics hundreds of years later did not cause it to be fundamental Christanity.
The neo-pagan/New Age/Gnostic Luciferians of the world very much despise that doctrine.
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Dear Chainmaster,
Above you said you don’t know what Kettner or Kettler is?
hah
In the image below you are quoted as saying that Chainmaker is the English translation of your last name.
You also said your grandfather was part of the Hitler youth program. Your last name is of German origin then. Kettner and Kettler are German names for Chainmaker. I think Chaukeedaar said he is of German origin and can confirm.
http: // newbremenhistory.org/GENEALOGY/German_Names.htm
heh, ur busted mate.
Chainmaker do you like SeaTac better than Bellingham, and how were the waters from the Ham to Alaska?
I am getting a lot of entertainment watching you get curb stomped by A Team. I get to work about 10-15 minutes early these days to drink my coffee and have a lot of laughs at your expense. Reading you telling us that you know more about the mind than experts that study it for over 12 years because you picked up a few textbooks was classic! 🙂 You are quite a comedian, even if you don’t really intend to be.
Thanks for the laughs Chainmaster.
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Hey Fury,
“I think Chaukeedaar said he is of German origin and can confirm.”
Yepp, almost German as of origin, but it is my first written language indeed (Europe is complicated 😉 )
Kettner = Kettenmacher = Chainmaker
Ketterer = Kettenmacher = Chainmaker
Kettler = Coppersmith
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Just like I thought, and “A Team” I noticed too how Chainmaster’s fury turned up a notch when you identified major parts of his personality as BPD. I saw visions of foam at the mouth and furious googling with walls of text coming forth as proof that this did, like you say, rattle his cage…or shake his chains…hehe
Like you are fond of saying Chainmaster, you hate it because it is truth.
Oh and Chaukeedaar is right, your rants are sounding a lot like Scientology who blame everything on the evil psychiatric profession, but correct me if I am wrong…I never read anyone telling you that you needed drugs to cure you of your problem. Was that something else your paranoid mind created out of nothing?
I think so.
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I don’t know what a Kettner or a Kettler is, but I do know what a Ketterer is 🙂
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I have not used information from Aleister Crowley’s associate L. Ron Hubbard’s cult to attack the “authority” of modern pyschology and psychiatry.
I have used articles that use the words of people in the field.
My point concerning psychiatric drugs, is that the enormous and ever-expanding DSM list is comprised of many invented disorders that serve as reasoning to prescribe drugs to treat the invented disorders.
When discussing a crime, you must always discuss the motive.
The entire psychiatric industry is now based around selling Big Pharma’s products.
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You sure do sound like a crazy scientologist pretending that psychology is all bad though, you nutbar.
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I am getting a lot of entertainment watching you get curb stomped by A Team. I get to work about 10-15 minutes early these days to drink my coffee and have a lot of laughs at your expense. Reading you telling us that you know more about the mind than experts that study it for over 12 years because you picked up a few textbooks was classic! 🙂 You are quite a comedian, even if you don’t really intend to be.
Thanks for the laughs Chainmaster.
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I didn’t say I know more about the mind, I said I know the same about the mind as they do. I have read their textbooks, the culmination of the various doctrines accepted as canonical by the psychological cult, and since the psych textbook is nothing but unproven hypotheses, and the DSM is nothing but unproven hypotheses, then my own hypotheses, as well as anyone else’s hypotheses are equally valid as explanations for human behavior, and my own determinations of what constitutes mental illness are equally valid as theirs, as they admit to changing their own defintions of what constitutes mental illness “with the fashion of the times”.
I do indeed refuse to accept any “authority” from the many “experts” who have studied unproven hypotheses for 12 years and then go to work prescribing legal dope to children.
“My little boy is very energetic and doesn’t like to sit still in class, what should I do doctor?”
“Well, in my 12 years receiving indoctrination from the authorities, I have learned to accept the hypothesis that your little boy is not just naturally full of energy and should in fact be given much more time to work off his energy outside, instead the authorities have dictated to me that your little boy has Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. I know ma’am, that sounds really scary, but the authorities have dictated to me that there is a solution. We can dope up your little boy on amphetamines, that sounds a little scary also so we will call it Ritalin instead.”
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You also said your grandfather was part of the Hitler youth program.
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Nope, sure didn’t ever say that.
I might have said that my great-grandfather was a German Jew who fled the Nazis to come to America though…
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Remember Yall, this is the fundamental part of Chainmasters view of spirituality: violence
He says….”Jesus came to bring a sword, and Paul said exactly what the Sword of the Spirit is, and I use it.
I am extremely violent with it, I am a soldier of God.”
http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6381&hilit=batshit&start=40
Well Chainmaster, your controllers the elite love people like you. Without you they couldn’t divide and conquer so easily. You are such a fool. You read the words divide and conquer and believe you know what they mean but you are so clueless to see that it is exactly what you do.
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I asked chain if he suffered from BPD a while ago. His purposeful answering every question but that , was guilt by omission.
Perhaps he believes that owning this will invalidate all his “work”. I personally disagree, because the tactics that he employs have nothing to do with diagnosed mental diesease, and instead with extreme narcissism, pathological lying, and over all douche baggery.
this is why I believe that chainmaker is not a real person and is controlled, fabricated!, insanity.
What person will go through such lengths to “memorize and learn” entire books and philosophies only to take them out of context?? Purposefully!
Chain lest you go on a rant about “context” and how you understand and are correct in your beliefs about (insert outrageous ideology).
Let me say, thats not the point.
The point is , I believe you are employed out work with the VC community to spread confusion and distraction.
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I don’t remember you using the Psychological Gestapo tactic of trying to diagnose me with some DSM listing because we have a moral disagreement.
Maybe you did?
I do generally ignore those tactics, but in the case of A Team the DSM is the foundation of his every argument and his claim to “authority”, so I chose to pull the rug out from under him.
Well FP, I will give you props, at least in this particular rant against me you refrained from from using your favorite word, the word that you know I preach against constantly but you decided to slander me with anyway.
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all anyone needs to see is how crazy he’s been going since A Team nailed him to his own cross with the anti-psycho babble talk pulling up random and uncelebrated authorities that enjoy absolutely no credibility in scientific field, while saying he knows better than the credible sources. He’s crazy, no need for fancy BPD terminology.
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He most certainly suffers from BPD.
Think about it. He’s tried self diagnosing his problems by reading “psychological texts” and in the process knows more about psychology than the PhD in psychology who has studied the field for over 12 years?
😀
Talk about deluded! He pulled the “rug” out beneath my feet because he can google a few obscure sources that enjoy no credibility to support his delusion. Great accomplishment there too!!
You know what I think happened? Chainmaker has been in and out of jail several times for whatever reasons and in the process has undergone psychological evaluation. He’s probably been offered pharmaceutical drugs to manage his mood swings and declined, wanting to solve his problem himself he began reading “psychological texts”, and has thoroughly rejected an entire field of study spawning hundreds of thousands of peer reviewed articles, studies, and research on the basis of a few disgruntled internet warriors who claim it’s all one big conspiracy.
There’s no doubt that corruption exists within the field of psychiatry as well as almost any other field driven by money, even many organized and institutionalized religions themselves, but if there is one recurring theme apparent in Chainmakers behavior is his fondness of throwing out baby with the bathwater.
I guess that’s what happens when you know better than everyone else.
Chain, I actually do know what I’m talking about and I know without question, without shadow of doubt that I am 100% right about you. I know that you’ve also been told this by professionals, I can even show it 😉 and I know that it makes you upset and shakes you deep to your core. The truth about you is what you are afraid of bro.
–delusions of grandeur– isn’t the half of it.
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Imaginative A Team, but off the mark.
I’ve already told my story on VC.
I never saw any shrinks due to my petty run-ins with the law, but I did have problems with depression during periods of my life, and I did go on anti-depressants in the past and I know plenty of other people who have gone on the pills too.
I know what the pills did to me, and it was not good at all, and it made me much worse off than I had been before.
I read my first books on psychology when I was a kid, just out of curiosity. I read a whole lot when I was a kid, about many different subjects. I also had a sibling in school for psychology, and had access to all the material. I certainly did revisit the subject during a period of depression in 2008.
You could say that the combination of being given drugs that made me want to kill myself by a psychiatrist, and having a sibling pursue that field who is one of the most deceptive and manipulative people that I know (that verdict being given not just by me but by most people who have known her awhile), has made me very wary of the field.
I don’t believe that everyone in the field is bad, but I think those who aren’t manipulative control-freaks are being manipulated by Big Pharma and are throwing around ridiculous diagnoses left and right even if they think they are doing the right thing.
In the aftermath of my depression in 2008 and my very bad experience with pills, I researched the anti-psychiatry crowd and joined them.
I was saved in 2009, and Jesus took my depression away. 🙂 In retrospect, it all seems very silly now, because I understand what the root of my depression was, and it was not a brain chemical imbalance, it was a selfish mindset and spiritual oppression by the demons that I had attracted through messing with the occult.
Psychological problems are nearly always spiritual problems, that is my solid belief. Instead of looking for an artificial solution in a pill I just keep positive and look at the cup as half full, and my faith makes it impossible for me to ever get back to the selfish depression I once had. God is good 🙂
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“What person will go through such lengths to “memorize and learn” entire books and philosophies only to take them out of context?? Purposefully!”
It is a facade behind which he can hide and at the same time acts as an external source of legitimation (in his mind at least). He can be an obnoxious, hating asshole who, like many other fundamentalists, would not think twice about killing “unbelievers” if convinced to serve Gods will, just because his distorted interpretation of the books helps him to self-delude into believing this is rightful. That is why he knows and cherry-picks these texts, since they tell him what he wants to hear. The exact same reason why his ‘logic’ in interpreting these text is so illogical in the eyes of more sane individuals.
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I am not clueless, and I am not here to unite, I am here to divide.
Jesus said:
“I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.” — Luke 12
Jesus came to divide, he came to bring salvation from God through his blood to the men who accept his call, and not to those who reject him.
The NWO seeks to unite all the self-salvation seekers under One World religion.
Bailey had no need to bastardize traditions other than Christianity, no neo-pagan/New Ager has any need to bastardize pagan belief systems, because they already agree with pagan belief systems.
They have a need to bastardize true fundamental Christianity that divides itself from other beliefs, that keeps itself separate from the various pagan belief systems and condemns all of them.
In the Bible Jesus claims that there is One Way to salvation, not Many Paths, not that Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims can all be saved if they reject what the Bible says about salvation.
That intolerant and exclusionary Biblical doctrine is that salvation is not granted to those who reject Jesus as the One and Only Way to salvation through his sacrifice on the cross. That “separateness”, that clearly delineated black-on-one-side-and-white-on-the-other-side line that is drawn between those who will be saved and those who will not be saved is what the pagans seek to bastardize.
They seek to bastardize fundamental Christian doctrine, because they hate that doctrine. The doctrine is that they will not be saved if they reject Jesus’ atoning sacrifice. Not only will they not be saved, but Christian doctrine says they have one life to live and after they die they will not get another chance. So they hate that doctrine too, and seek to replace it with reincarnation.
So, what was considered “evil” to Bailey?
http://www.raherrmann.com/bailey.htm
“When we are *separative in our attitudes* or *do anything which produces separation*, we are transgressing a fundamental law of {God}.” (7, p. 355). “It is the sense of separateness, this emphasis upon *personal and individual good, which is the nature of sin*.” (7, p. 356). “Separateness is hatred, aloneness and division.” (7, p. 356).
“Why this triumph of the {Christ consciousness} must always be spoken of in terms of religion of church-going or ORTHODOX BELIEF is one of the incredible triumphs of the forces of evil.” (ROC, p. 11)
Fundamental, intolerant, exclusionary Christian doctrine is evil according to Bailey.
That “separateness” has been hated by many more people than just Alice Bailey.
John 15:18-25 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’”
2 Corinthians 6:14-17 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[b]? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
“I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Therefore, “Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.”
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You’re here to divide? You don’t say? I think even Ray Charles saw that one coming a mile away, lol.
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Gnostic Lucy,
Chainmaker projects his anger, that is how it’s easy to spot. It’s so thick you can palpate it through the screen.
Projection is a very common, unconscious behavioral characteristic among people who have traits of borderline personality disorder (BPD).
To put it simply, it is the projection of one’s one fault and feeling onto others, sometimes even inanimate objects. To a certain degree many people do it daily, but the difference with those who are sane is that they can catch themselves and realize it’s their own internal self talk rather than apply their imaginations onto others. We have all seen how often Chainmaker applies his imaginations onto others here. It’s to be expected by now.
So for example, a BP who is having thoughts of violence will feel that they are being threatened and will be paranoid that you are seeking to harm them physically.
— recall when Chainmaker said he uses the word of God violently and is here to divide and is commanded to hate —
— then remember when he cried he was being attacked and “slandered” — 😉
It’s all projection.
– He’s violent
– Likes to divide people into warring factions against each other
– Enjoys spreading hatred
It’s all coming from within himself.
That paranoid part about is is that he believes he’s being attacked, “slandered” (that one still makes me chuckle) and targeted here. Excuse me for pointing out that you can’t be targeted on a blog you voluntarily came to.
lol
Chainmaker likes to give out the bitter pill, but when forced to swallow it from his own making, he cries.
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We can have the same silly debate about the precise definitions of the words “slander”, “libel”, and “defamation” again, but that would be just silly.
When something says something about you that is untrue that is getting slandered in common parlance, and common parlance is how I am using the word. I just simply point out the lies and respond to them.
Every debate consists of attack and defense, like any other conflict, and only the ignorant or the deceptive deny that simple fact.
We have been debating A Team, if you were unaware.
I have been quoting from the Bible about spiritual and mental warfare, hatred of evil, and division of opposing forces. If you think there is something wrong with that, it is the Bible you have a problem with, not me.
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From the writings of the person agreed by myself and the Muslim Truthseer to be a fake apostate Muslim, the practitioner of astral travel and communication with astral entities, the preacher of moral relativism and a New Age belief system that I have termed the “Light Soul Religion”, the VC mod once known as Hexa_404 now known simply as Hex, a peculiar name with a connotation of witchcraft, the target of my final thread on VC as Chainmaker, a thread that has been posted on this page, the thread where I publicly exposed Hexa as being a Satanist witch and was attacked by Femalepharoe and many others for doing so:
“Universe operates on a duality principle, Light and non-Light, working in harmony to create a balance which drives evolution in the balance, both sides of the coin must exist simultaneously. You cannot have Light without a shadow being cast.
This is why I feel Good and Evil is subjective, it is within the confines of fickle human understanding, the universe in all it’s glory, billions of galaxies, within each billions of star systems, within those thousands of civilizations. Would a creator really do all this just to judge between who has been a Good boy, and vice versa? On one lone planet in the corner of one solar system?
You should give more thought to reincarnation, the universe is highly efficient, energy is always being shifted around, reincarnation is more creative and useful than having one life.” — Hex
“My last word on blind biblical faith for today: Do you think that God created that material universe of such immense size and complexity with billions of incarnated souls, with boundless experiences and lessons for everyone, to then all of a sudden give you an all-out option of salvation only if you believe in a specific doctrine found in a specific book on a specific planet? If yes, you are wrong. Jesus will save you by the spirit he brought here, not by his death.” — Chauk
“The concept of immortal souls and Karma is a thousand times more plausible to me than the concept of forgiveness of sins and this simple heaven-and-hell concept that the churches extracted from the bible (and a bible that is thrown together and selected from chosen sources and manipulated in the early days).” — Chauk
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“Please do not confuse hatred for an immoral belief system with hate for individuals who follow that belief system, or hate for an immoral action with hate of the individual who performed the action. Please do not confuse hatred for immorality with hatred for the free will that allows people to choose immorality.” — Chainmaker
“I do not confuse it and I’m happy that at least you got that lesson from life. What may be hard for you to consider is that I do not even feel hatred against the immoral belief system. I do not hate because MY Jesus wants me to love.” — Chauk
“I believe homosexuality is ok. However this: “Look at the roman empire, they were non light and even they accepted homosexuality as absolutely normal.” Maybe it’s because they were non-light, they accepted something wrong as right?” — Saber Tiger
“Who is to say what is considered ‘wrong’? It is not for us to judge. Our current Moral & Social Code of Conducts is based on the foundations of Religious dogma. And that says something.” — Hex
“No action is judged or condemned by the Light, but we’re asked the live from Love” — Zsymon, Hex’s fellow Light Soul Religion preacher
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Love is the Law. Love under Will.
Every man and woman is a Star. — Aleister Crowley
“To set in motion the “occult forces which would result in the illumination of all by 2000 A.D.,” Crowley became convinced that his mission was to “cure the world from sexual repression”. To achieve his goal, he determined to study every detail of sexual behavior and bring every sexual impulse up to the region of rational consciousness. To this end he experimented with altered states of consciousness, including hashish, cocaine and opium.
Crowley would eventually introduce (not without protest) the practice of homosexual sex magick into the O.T.O. as one of the highest degrees of the Order for he believed it to be the most powerful formula 12. It was clear that Crowley felt the accusations against the original Templars of practising sodomy and orgies with women had been based in fact, but not understood by their detractors.
“The most obvious examples of Crowley’s influence on popular culture are the references made by the rock stars who were enamored with his persona and philosophy such as the Beatles and Jimmy Page.” — http://secretarcana.com/influentialfigures/aleister-crowley-and-his-legacy/
“I’m sure you are aware that the Beatles, especially George Harrison, got involved with Prabhupada’s Hare Krishna, those same Beatles who put Aleister Crowley on their album cover and were instrumental in making New Age teachings popular in the West.” — Chainmaker
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“What these examples show is that “mental illness” is simply deviance from what people want or expect in any particular society. “Mental illness” is anything in human mentality greatly disliked by the person describing it.
The situation was aptly summed up in an article in the November 1986 Omni magazine: “Disorders come and go. Even Sigmund Freud’s concept of neurosis was dropped in the original DSM-III (1980). And in 1973 APA [American Psychiatric Association] trustees voted to wipe out almost all references to homosexuality as a disorder. Before the vote, being gay was considered a psychiatric problem. After the vote the disorder was relegated to psychiatry’s attic. ‘It’s a matter of fashion,’ says Dr. John Spiegel of Brandeis University, who was president of the APA in 1973, when the debate over homosexuality flared. ‘And fashions keep changing’” (p. 30).”
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“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” — Isaiah 5:20
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
“Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.” — Psalm 97:10
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. — John 3:19-21
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Chainmaker are you smoking weed right now?
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“mental illness is a deviance from what people expect”
lol
Imagine the “deviant” who likes to self mutilate.
Nah, he’s not suffering from a mental illiness, just a minor deviance from what people expect. Good one.
Really though, the hardest part of getting help for a disorder such as yours is first accepting it.
It is the case for a great majority of people who have similar disorders.
“Research carried out at the National Empowerment Center has shown that people can fully recover from even the most severe forms of mental illness. In-depth interviews of people diagnosed with schizophrenia have shown that these people are capable of regaining significant roles in society and of running their own lives. Though they have recovered from their mental illness they, as everyone, continue to heal emotionally. In most cases they no longer need medication and use holistic health and peer support to continue their healing.” http://bit.ly/uPX4
It’s all within reach, even for you Chainmaker.
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I do not deny the existence of mental illness. I deny the existence of mental illness as defined by the DSM. I simply retain the freedom and independence to decide for myself what constitutes mental illness, I have no need to consult any “authority” on a matter that is so closely affected by cultural, political, religious and moral views.
I agree, a person who mutilates himself is definitely mentally ill.
I am doing fine, by the way, I’ve got a good job in a beautiful place, it’s a great life and I’m thankful to God. 🙂
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And no Kittie, I don’t smoke weed.
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You don’t deny mental illness, but deny the DSM. Huge contradiction there Chainmaker. Instead of the DSM, psychologists and practicing physicians should refer to you as to what constitutes a disorder, because you have read all the psychology textbooks and know just as much about the brain as they do? Is that correct?
:LOLOL:
I think that A Team is right. You deny the DSM because you were diagnosed with a disorder using it as a basis and were offered drugs to fix a problem that you probably brought on yourself through drugs.
Tell us about your occult experience, especially after inducing hallucinations with drugs again Chainmaker? 😉
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besides the fact that you’re just trolling now, as always I really do enjoy how easily you’ve come undone since being labelled with borderline personality disorder. truth has hit home!!!
lol @ the random snippets of information Chainmaker is posting in an attempt to derail the subject of his mental disorder.
A more insane individual couldn’t make up half the shit you post Chainmaker. You depraved lonely fool. you know better than all experts…I love it!
hahaha
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Chainmnaker may act like an asshole in public, but if he’s indeed suffering from borderline personality disorder would you then like to be responsible for his symptoms worsening, leading in extreme cases to suicide attempts?
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Chainmaker I know your brain will delete this because deleting information that will preserve your fragmented ego is what you do. Oh shizzz, did I put up psycho-babble, lol.
I digress, you’ve been told before but I think this breakdown you’re having right now is a good time to say it again. The world, or people you meet don’t hate you for the views you hold, they hate you because you are an asshole.
That’s all.
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The Best Of Chainmaker Part 9 (Special thanks to Gnostic Lucy Fury’ian for providing the links! Might as well have screenshots of these for all to see.):
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Hilarious quotes by Chainmaker. See if you can find the obvious discrepancies and contradictions.
[quotes by chainmaker]
[“A psychology textbook is an entertaining read, and I have read a few, but authoritative they are not, and will never be.”]
[“So when I say that I believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, that is based on my own authority”]
[“Typically, the believer in mental illness, such as Dr. Branden in this quoted passage, has the same values as I do but is confusing them with health.
One of the most telling examples is homosexuality, which was officially defined as a mental disease by the American Psychiatric Association until 1973 but hasn’t been since then. Homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder on page 44 of the American Psychiatric Association’s standard reference book, DSM-II: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the 2nd Edition), published in 1968”]
[“And in 1973 APA [American Psychiatric Association] trustees voted to wipe out almost all references to homosexuality as a disorder. Before the vote, being gay was considered a psychiatric problem.”]
[“I gave my own opinion that homosexuality is actually a mental disorder, thus, I believe that mental disorder does exist.”]
[“Mental illness is diagnosed based on symptoms, not any “hard science” physical test,”]
[“and every person on planet earth can be diagnosed with something or other in the massive DSM listings, the symptoms can be stretched to include anything and everything.”]
You mean like maybe your assertion that homosexuality is a mental disorder based on previous editions of the DSM?? lol
[“Every psychology textbook is a work of political and philosophical pseudo-science.”]
[“I gave my own opinion that homosexuality is actually a mental disorder, thus, I believe that mental disorder does exist.”]
so here Chainmaker tells us the DSM is a fairy tale:
[“The disorders that you seek to diagnose others with are inventions, they are the musings of the so-called “authorities”, and they exist only in the mind of the psychological cult. The DSM is their Bible, their religious text.”]
But here it is not because it classifies homosexuality as a disorder.
[“Typically, the believer in mental illness, such as Dr. Branden in this quoted passage, has the same values as I do but is confusing them with health.
One of the most telling examples is homosexuality, which was officially defined as a mental disease by the American Psychiatric Association until 1973 but hasn’t been since then. Homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder on page 44 of the American Psychiatric Association’s standard reference book, DSM-II: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the 2nd Edition), published in 1968”]
[“I gave my own opinion that homosexuality is actually a mental disorder, thus, I believe that mental disorder does exist.”]
In Chainmakers all “disorders” are just ways for the psychological cult to medicate individuals. It’s a world wide conspiracy (Scientologist repeat this as fervently as Chanmaker), never mind the fact that psychologists do not prescribe medication.
Chainmaker proclaims this is true for all “disorders” except “homosexuality”, which even though being dropped as a disorder, is still a disorder in his mind because classifying it as a disorder allows him to hate the gay man.
**This begs the question as to whether that might also be one of his Projections?** Recall the gay-conversion minister who eventually came out and admitted he was gay.
Look, I’m not saying it is so, just that the possibility certainly exists.
[“I am just as much as an authority on the mind as they are, having read textbooks from the psychological cult”]
Sure you are. You read their textbooks and in the few months it took you, you have surpassed the knowledge that a typical doctorate of psychology gets over 12 years of experience in the field?
😀
— delusions of grandeur —
So to recap, psychology is bullshit, not authoritative and useless unless it was used 30+ years ago to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder.
Even if that “theory” has been since rejected, you claim psychology as an authority to continue to propagate that idea.
What you are committing is the paradox of entailment. Look it up 😉 it’s not part of the world wide “psychological cults” canon, lol.
Here are a few non-DSM diagnoses for you, based on myself as the authority and God as my witness.
– Cherry Picker.
– Hypocrite
– Lover of your internal paradox
a few more laughs at your expense:
Chainmaker,
[“Reading the DSM listings is good entertainment.”]
[“Typically, the believer in mental illness, such as Dr. Branden in this quoted passage, has the same values as I do but is confusing them with health.
One of the most telling examples is homosexuality, which was officially defined as a mental disease by the American Psychiatric Association until 1973 but hasn’t been since then. Homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder on page 44 of the American Psychiatric Association’s standard reference book, DSM-II: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the 2nd Edition), published in 1968”]
Why would anyone who isn’t trying to self-diagnose read the DSM?
Or were you trying to get a deeper understanding of what you were professionally diagnosed with already? 😉
[“I am just as much as an authority on the mind as they are, having read textbooks from the psychological cult”]
[“My point is that I do not accept as fact those many hypotheses dictated by the psychological establishment.”]
[“Every psychology textbook is a work of political and philosophical pseudo-science.”]
[“So what all this means is that your psycho-babble is not truly scientific, it is nothing more than opinion you have been indoctrinated with.”]
[“and since the psych textbook is nothing but unproven hypotheses, and the DSM is nothing but unproven hypotheses
[[unless of course, it classifies homosexuality as a disorder]]
then my own hypotheses, as well as anyone else’s hypotheses are equally valid as explanations for human behavior, and my own determinations of what constitutes mental illness are equally valid as theirs”]
Basically… {a psychologist is not an authority on psychology – I am ((chainmaker))}
Ok Chainmaker, I’ll bite:
Please explain all of these systems in as much detail as you can since none of these physical systems is ever researched in conjunction with various psychological phenomenon. 😉
Feel free to google them since that is what you do for almost everything else.
(1) the opioid neuropeptide system
(2) the purinergic system
(3) the glutamatergic system
(4) the tachykinin neuropeptide system
(5) the cholinergic system (muscarinic system)
(6) intracellular signaling pathways.
These are physical systems that can and have been mapped and measured 😉
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Chainmaker, you are in denial bro. Resisting the truth about you just makes it shake you more.
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“I gave my own opinion that homosexuality is actually a mental disorder, thus, I believe that mental disorder does exist.”
You mean like maybe your assertion that homosexuality is a mental disorder based on previous editions of the DSM?? lol
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How hard is this to understand?
I do not take the dictates of the psychological establishment as authority to tell me what is and is not mental disorder.
In 1968 the DSM was still full of unproven hypotheses, it just so happens that back then their idea that homosexuality is a mental disorder was correct according to basic biological logic.
I gave my reason for considering homosexuality a mental disorder, you read it, so I am not sure why you are claiming that I based my assertion on the previous DSM. Maybe you just have a bad memory, so I will post it again for you:
“So when I say that I believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, that is based on my own authority based on my own logic based on my knowledge of the facts of biological life being that anything counter-reproduction is a biological malfunction.”
That doesn’t say anything about a DSM.
———————-
In Chainmakers all “disorders” are just ways for the psychological cult to medicate individuals. It’s a world wide conspiracy (Scientologist repeat this as fervently as Chanmaker), never mind the fact that psychologists do not prescribe medication.
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Oh goodie, let’s play another technical definition game! As if it really matters whether a psychologist can write the prescription for the dope.
Scientologists need to keep people away from the psychiatrists so they can do their “auditing” hypnosis sessions (which include plenty of demonic activity), that’s their angle.
My angle is simply pointing out the very obvious conspiracy for money and power that runs the psychiatric industry. I don’t want to replace the psychiatrist and give you an “audit”, I want people to read the Bible and say a prayer, works like a charm in my experience.
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Chainmaker proclaims this is true for all “disorders” except “homosexuality”, which even though being dropped as a disorder, is still a disorder in his mind because classifying it as a disorder allows him to hate the gay man.
———————————
I don’t hate any gay people, but I do hate the behavior.
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Feel free to google them since that is what you do for almost everything else.
(1) the opioid neuropeptide system
(2) the purinergic system
(3) the glutamatergic system
(4) the tachykinin neuropeptide system
(5) the cholinergic system (muscarinic system)
(6) intracellular signaling pathways.
These are physical systems that can and have been mapped and measured 😉
——————————–
What’s wrong with Google? You have Microsoft stock and want me to use Bing?
Unfortunately, you can’t diagnose any disorder based on those systems, you will still just tell the moms with squirmy kids to feed them amphetamines, you will diagnose the kid with a fake disorder based on his symptom of being a normal kid.
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Chainmaker you love attention, negative or positive. You’ve taken the focus off of Vigilant Citizen here and put it on yourself, an anonymous ‘victim’.
Using Google to do a bit of research reveals that most BPD’s do love attention and seek ways to manipulate others in order to either exalt themselves or play victim. You’ve done both.
Google is good 😀
::Attention seeking methods
::Attention seekers commonly exploit the suffering of others to gain attention for themselves. Or they may exploit their own suffering, or alleged suffering. In extreme forms, such as in Munchausen Syndrome By Proxy, the attention-seeker will deliberately cause suffering to others as a means of gaining attention.
::The sufferer: The attention-seeker excels in manipulating people through their emotions, especially that of guilt.
{you are going to hell}
Then the attention seeker enters into
::The saviour: in attention-seeking personality disorders the person, creates opportunities to be centre of attention by intentionally causing harm to others and then being their saviour, by saving their life, and by being such a caring, compassionate person. Few people realise the manipulation of emotions was deliberate.
::The rescuer: After inflicting guilt via manipulation the rescuer then dashes in and “rescue” people whenever the moment is opportune. They will prey on any person suffering misfortune, infirmity, illness, injury, or anyone who has a vulnerability. In particular the rescuer will often use facts and half truths to inflict psychological guilt and fear often through the guise of imparting spiritual wisdom thus the act of rescue and thus the opportunities for gaining attention can be seen as altruistic and for the good of the victim.
:: The manipulator: Manipulating others with guilt and distorting perceptions; although they may not harm people physically, they causes others to suffer emotional injury.
A common attention-seeking ploy is to claim they are being persecuted, victimised, excluded, insisting they are the target of a campaign of exclusion or harassment.
::The mind-poisoner: adept at poisoning peoples’ minds by manipulating their perceptions.
That pretty much describes you and your actions here Chainmaker.
Say, what were you in jail for anyway? 😉
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A Team has done good work here. I will follow his model because it is having an impact on you Chainmaker. You want to be the focal point here. Let’s do it 😀 😀 😀
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Let’s play a game.
Below are the most common defense mechanisms that people with mental illnesses such as Chainmaker frequently engage.
Can you identify which ones Chainmaker uses regularly, and give examples of his use on this blog?
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Defense Mechanisms
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:: disclaimer:: this is not my work, but a google search away. Google is good, isn’t that right Chainmaker? 😀 😀 😀
:: not all defense mechanisms are negative. Some are positive. Maybe Chainmaker can find the ones that are positive in nature, or healthier, and engage them superfluously imposing the positive effects on the negative ones so as to make a smooth transition from a parasitical effect to a value creating effect?
Level 1 Defense Mechanisms – Almost always pathological; for the user these three defenses permit someone to rearrange external reality (and therefore not have to cope with reality); for the beholder, the users of these mechanisms frequently appear crazy or insane. These are the “psychotic” defenses, common in overt psychosis, in dreams, and throughout childhood. They include:
Denial – a refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening. There are examples of denial being adaptive (for example, it might be adaptive for a person who is dying to have some denial
Distortion – a gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs
Delusional Projection – frank delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature
It’s abundantly clear that Chainmaker regularly engages these defenses. More examples to follow.
Level 2 Defense Mechanisms are seen frequently in adults and are common in adolescents. For the user these mechanism alter distress and anxiety caused by reality or other people; while for the beholder, people who use such defenses are seen as socially undesirable, immature, difficult and out of touch. They are considered “immature” defenses and almost always lead to serious problems in a person’s ability to cope with the world. These defenses are seen in severe depression, personality disorders, and adolescence. They include:
Fantasy – tendency to retreat into fantasy in order to resolve inner and outer conflicts
Projection – attributing one’s own unacknowledged feelings to others; includes severe prejudice, severe jealousy, hypervigilance to external danger, and “injustice collecting”. (remember that projection is a primitive form of paranoia, so it is common in today’s world)
Hypochondriasis – the transformation of negative feelings towards others into negative feelings toward self, pain, illness and anxiety
Passive Agressive Behavior – aggression towards others expressed indirectly or passively
Acting Out Behavior – direct expression of an unconscious wish or impulse to avoid being conscious of the emotion that accompanies it
Level 3 Defense Mechanisms are often considered “neurotic” but are fairly common in adults. They can have short-term advantages in coping, but they often cause long-term problems in relationships, work, and enjoyment of life for people who primarily use them as their basic style of coping with the world. They include:
Intellectualization – separation of emotion from ideas; thinking about wishes in formal, affectively bland terms and not acting on them
Repression – seemingly inexplicable naivete, memory lapse, or lack of awareness of physical status; the emotion is conscious, but the idea behind it is absent
Reaction Formation – behavior that is completely the opposite of what one really wants or feels (e.g, taking care of someone when what one really wants is to be taken care of; studying to be a pilot to cover-up being afraid to fly). Note – this can work in the short term as an effective strategy to cope, but will eventually break down.
Displacement – separation of emotion from its real object and redirection of the intense emotion toward someone or something that is less offensive or threatening in order to avoid dealing directly with what is frightening or threatening
Dissociation – temporary and drastic modification of one’s personal identity or character to avoid emotional distress
Level 4 Defense Mechanisms are common among most “healthy” adults and are considered the most “mature”. Many of them have their origins in the “immature” level, but have been honed by the individual to optimize his/her success in life and relationships. Use of these defenses gives the user pleasure and feelings of mastery. For the user, these defenses help them to integrate many conflicting emotions and thoughts and still be effective; and for the beholder their use by someone is viewed as a virtue. They include:
Sublimation – transformation of negative emotions or instincts into positive actions, behavior, or emotion
Altruism – constructive service to others that brings pleasure and personal satisfaction
Suppression – the conscious decision to delay paying attention to an emotion or need in order to cope with the present reality; able to later access the emotion and accept it.
Anticipation – realistic planning for future discomfort (EXAMPLE)
Humor – overt expression of ideas and feelings (especially those that are unpleasant to focus on or too terrible to talk about) that gives pleasure to others; (humor lets you call a spade a spade, while “wit” is actually a form of displacement)
Since all of these defense mechanisms can be used by adults to adapt to life, the question is:
When is a defense mechanism considered really “adaptive” and when is it considered “pathological”? What we call “mental illness” is actually a manifestation of an individual’s pathological adaptive resposne to events in his/her life. Here is what makes a defense “pathological”:
the defense is used in a rigid, inflexible, and exclusive manner
the motivation for using the defense comes more from past needs than present or future reality
the defense severely distorts the present situation
use of the defense leads to significant problems in relationships, functioning, and enjoyment of life
use of the defense impedes or distorts emotions and feelings, instead of rechanneling them effectively
Research has shown (see Adaptation to Life) that use of the “mature defenses” (Level 4) I listed is related to:
1) excellent adjustment as an adult,
2) happiness(by self-report),
3) job satisfaction,
4) rich friendships,
5) fewer hospitalizations over life,
6) better overall health,
7) a lower incidence of mental illness.
Use of the “immature Defenses” (Levels 1, 2, 3) is related to:
1) poor adjustment as an adult; 2) higher divorce rates and marital discord, 3) poor friendship patterns, 4) higher incidence of mental illness, 5) greater number of sick leave days taken, 6) poorer health generally.
You can see from some of the examples of these defenses I have chosen that defense mechanisms are not limited to individuals. Societies also sometimes need to protect their self-images and cope with events in the world. They need to explain why their society is failing; why they are not as important in the world as they feel they should be, etc. etc. Why the ideologies they embrace aren’t successful.
Societies, like individuals, can adopt mature defenses and deal with reality; or they can deny reality and look elsewhere for the source of their problems. Many countries, like individuals, prefer to put the blame for their own failures onto an outside source, since that is safer for the self-image. A “healthy” country, like a healthy individual will evaluate the facts and utilize mature defenses to cope with and change the situation they find themselves in. They are not afraid of their aggressive impulses because those impulses are reigned in by reason and not indulged in lightly. When necessary, healthy societies look inward. When necessary, they focus outward.
By the way, if you don’t like my examples and claim that they reflect my conservative bias, well too bad. They also reflect the defense mechanisms I describe.
So you see Chainmaker, the extreme fear and anxiety you show towards medication doesn’t need to stop you from seeking behaviors and alternate psychological means to reverse the effects of your disorder.
Medicine isn’t all bad, or black and white, lolol 😀
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If we are going to continue to play DSM diagnostic games to misdirect the debate away from the substance of the doctrine I have preached, in an attempt to discredit me personally instead of addressing the religious and philosophical points that I have made, then y’all need to pick one of these disorders and stick with it.
Through-the-computer-screen diagnoses of hypothesized disorders now include:
1. Bipolar disorder
2. Borderline personality disorder
3. paranoid irrational conspiracy theorist (as most people who frequent conspiracy sites are labeled, “What you think the JEWS did 9/11? You anti-Semitic Nazi whackjob!”)
4. vague “psychosis” (probably should be included with general accusations but it did come from the very “authoritative” A Team
General accusations of mental illness include:
1. nutjob
2. batshit insane fundamentalist a more honest term that links the accusation of mental illness with my Biblical religious views)
3. I’m sure there are plenty more lol
That’s to go with the accusations that I am
1. an anti-Christian imposter seeking to lead people away from Jesus (but don’t say that such a person would be Satanic[against Christ] because then A Team will call you deceptive and paranoid)
2. a willing associate of Vigilant in an elaborate mind-control game to gain traffic for the site.
3. an unwilling pawn of VC who has been fooled into being used as part of an elaborate mind-control game to gain traffic for the site.
And to go with that is the general name-calling
1. coward
2. fool
3. I’m sure there are plenty more lol
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Chainmaker you love attention, negative or positive. You’ve taken the focus off of Vigilant Citizen here and put it on yourself, an anonymous ‘victim’.
Using Google to do a bit of research reveals that most BPD’s do love attention and seek ways to manipulate others in order to either exalt themselves or play victim. You’ve done both.
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The truth is, you are making me the center of attention right now Kittie, because there is something that I have said that causes you to want to discredit me.
I haven’t made this all about me, everyone who has decided to attack me has made this about me. My name was being mentioned and lies were being told about me before I ever came here to defend myself.
After I came here to defend myself, more people decided that they wanted to attempt to discredit my religious views and methods and to do that they decided to try to discredit me personally. All I have done is respond to accusations that I consider false, and in doing so pursue my own agenda which is to explain my religious views and methods in the process.
I have expressed my desire to see the conversation move away from being about me personally, and especially to see the mind-blowing evidence about something or other than A Team claims he has. Others have also expressed their desire to move the conversation away from me and back to A Team’s evidence, including Femalepharoe and Truthseer.
But A Team has chosen to keep the conversation focused on me, and now you have chosen to keep the conversation focused on me.
“A Team, why are you keeping this discussion focused on me? Femalepharoe said she doesn’t want this to be about me anymore, and I am pretty sure that everyone is getting really impatient waiting for your Episode 10: Wrath of the Pysch Textbook Menace.” — Chainmaker 22/01/2012
“I’m not running Chain, on the contrary, I have you right where I want you 😉 Don’t forget that. You’re still here because I’ve made it that way. ”
“Your participation has been essential. I don’t want you to leave any time soon, and I will deliver lesson 10 when I see fit. For now, this discourse with you is very relevant.” — A Team 22/01/2012
Dear A Team, are you ever going to present your findings regarding Toby and Datallion Jones? or have we forgotten about that. — Femalepharoe 31/01/2012
“Yeah A Team, everybody is sick and tired of reading about me, we want Episode 10: Wrath of the Psych Textbook Menace.
–waits for A Team to yet again keep this focused on me–” — Chainmaker 31/01/2012
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::The sufferer: The attention-seeker excels in manipulating people through their emotions, especially that of guilt.
{you are going to hell}
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And here we can see what it is that you seek to discredit Kittie. We can see that Dr. Schaler was correct, the diagnosis of mental illness is used as a weapon in social conflict, when a serious intellectual or moral disagreement occurs very often the ad hominem tactic is utilized to label the offending person as mentally ill.
You should feel guilt for your sin Kittie, that’s what the Bible says. We all sin, we should all feel guilt when we sin. The Bible says you go to hell if you do not believe in the atoning blood of Jesus.
So your issue is not with me, it is with the Bible. I am simply preaching the doctrine of the Bible. We figured that out in the debate with Chauk, he thinks that the Biblical doctrine of salvation through Jesus’ sacrifice that I believe is a myth, and he believes it is immoral.
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Then the attention seeker enters into
::The saviour: in attention-seeking personality disorders the person, creates opportunities to be centre of attention by intentionally causing harm to others and then being their saviour, by saving their life, and by being such a caring, compassionate person. Few people realise the manipulation of emotions was deliberate.
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I haven’t caused any harm to others defending myself from people who slander me as a racist or an anti-Christian, and I have not caused any harm to other by typing my Biblical views on the comments on a blog.
I haven’t presented myself as a savior, I have said that I believe the Bible which says that Jesus is the Savior who did come to earth to save their soul if they accept his free gift of salvation. I believe that what Jesus did was caring and compassionate and I believe that by doing as he commanded his followers to do I am being caring and compassionate by warning others about evil false religions and telling them the One Way they can be saved according to the Bible.
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I cannot be making you the center of attention because I don’t control you and force you to respond to every single bit of criticism you’ve earned here. You have. You’ve earned your criticism by creating some of the most asinine arguments or defenses possible, rather than owning up to the fact that you are a hateful angry and bitter individual that you come across as.
So you bring it on yourself.
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Chainmaker on 29/01/2012 at 07:56
I have taken the position of a spiritual leader and teacher.
————————————————————————————————
Chainmaker on 02/02/2012
I haven’t presented myself as a savior
————————————————————————————————
Perhaps you have not specifically stated you are a savior, regardless of that you have stated you’ve taken a position as a spiritual leader. Woe unto those who follow you. I fear for their well being. You will certainly poison their mind, and not for the teaching of Biblical knowledge, but the injection of the poison in your heart into theirs.
My issue certainly is not with the Bible, per se, but the way you manipulate it in wanting to aggravate and bring grief to others.
You’ll answer that if I am angry I’m angry with God, Jesus or the Bible. It’s not so. I’ve read it for myself.
I’m also not angry, I’m just one of the many that provoke you because you like to provoke others. It’s your button. It’s obvious. I won’t deny that I enjoy provoking you. 😀
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I cannot be making you the center of attention because I don’t control you and force you to respond to every single bit of criticism you’ve earned here. You have. You’ve earned your criticism by creating some of the most asinine arguments or defenses possible, rather than owning up to the fact that you are a hateful angry and bitter individual that you come across as.
So you bring it on yourself.
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That’s twisted logic Kittie. It’s the same as A Team’s deceptive psycho-babble about “perseverance”. The idea that you or A Team can repeatedly make posts to attack my views or attack me personally but that if I continue to respond to the baiting that makes me an attention whore with no self-control, is absolutely ridiculous.
You are correct, I have chosen to continue responding, and so have you and so has A Team, and so has anyone else who posts. I offered Chauk the opportunity to be at the center of attention at one point, and he thanked me to be brought back into the discussion.
If you address me, do not fault me for responding to you, that is just silly. It goes both ways. If you find my views to be asinine, feel free to debate me, just own up to the fact that when you decide to attack my views or me personally then you invite me to defend and counterattack and so then you have decided to keep me and my views at the center of attention.
I have stated very clearly and openly that I am a hateful individual, there are many evil things in the world that I hate. I am a Christian and my Bible commands me to hate evil. Perhaps your belief is that hating evil is wrong, but I believe that hatred of evil = love, and love of evil = hate.
Bitter I am not. I once was very bitter due to a selfish mentality, but I am at peace now, thankful for what I have and looking forward with faith to the future.
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Perhaps you have not specifically stated you are a savior, regardless of that you have stated you’ve taken a position as a spiritual leader. Woe unto those who follow you. I fear for their well being. You will certainly poison their mind, and not for the teaching of Biblical knowledge, but the injection of the poison in your heart into theirs.
My issue certainly is not with the Bible, per se, but the way you manipulate it in wanting to aggravate and bring grief to others.
You’ll answer that if I am angry I’m angry with God, Jesus or the Bible. It’s not so. I’ve read it for myself.
I’m also not angry, I’m just one of the many that provoke you because you like to provoke others. It’s your button. It’s obvious. I won’t deny that I enjoy provoking you. 😀
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The anger, aggravation and grief that is caused by me attacking evil false religions and belief systems is the unavoidable side effect of attacking false belief systems.
People do not like to be told they are wrong, especially not about spiritual and philosophical matters, religious and political matters. Their beliefs are close to their hearts, and an attack on their beliefs is an attack on their ego.
I have said it before, that does not matter to me.
A good analogy is the “battered wife/girlfriend”. She is in an abusive relationship with a charming liar who beats her, but he is very charming and she loves being with him, and she makes excuses and lies to herself and others and defends him.
The honest and well-meaning friend of this woman will see the situation as it is and will not refrain from telling the woman the truth that offends her, that the boyfriend she loves is evil and she needs to stop lying to herself about him and leave him.
A similar thing occurs with “interventions” for drug addicts. Often the individual loves their abusive partner or their drug so much that they will react with anger when told the truth.
“How dare you judge me!”
“Who the hell are you to tell me how to live my life?”
This is what I encounter when I tell the truth about Mohammed. Mohammed’s “battered wives”, the Muslims, don’t like to hear the truth about that charming fellow.
And so it goes with all the rest of the religions and belief systems I speak against. Often all it takes to incite anger is just the simple mention that I believe in the Biblical doctrine that those who reject Jesus’ atonement will go to hell. People don’t like to think they are going to hell, the idea often makes them angry.
I believe that Mohammed was a child molesting, adulterous, slave-raping, thieving, pillaging bloody warlord and the Qur’an is not the Word of God but is the word of evil Mohammed and the evil demon he talked to, and I believe that the action of publicly stating those beliefs in a theater of voluntary religious debate is sour-tasting medicine for Muslims and a sour-tasting vaccine for non-Muslims…
but you can choose to believe that it is poison.
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Reading your comments makes it hard to deny that you go to extremes. One minute you sound reasonable, and the next you come across overly aggressive and the undertones indicate a lot of pent up frustration. Take it or leave it, that’s how you come across to me. It’s passive aggressive and seemingly unstable.
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The Best Of Chainmaker Part 10:
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This is all very interesting but at the same time amusing and sad. The point of this blog article seems lost and that was that the vigilant citizen is disinformation. He is, obviously. His articles are usually ripped off from other sources and simply rewritten. They do nothing to give the reader an idea of why the industry has gone this route in recent years or at least ramped up the effort to include a lot of Masonic symbolism. The articles offer no real solution and when solutions are presented they are censored by the vigilant citizen. Those acts are enough to make a pretty reasonable conclusion that he has an agenda.
In the meantime one of his misfit users has made the comment sections all his and I think the one thing everyone is missing and is right in front of your faces. Chainmaker says he’s a Bible believing and God fearing Christian. If he follows the Bible like he claims then he hasn’t been laid in years. That is what is making him crazy.
He needs to get laid.
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“He needs to get laid”
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
No doubt!
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Vigilant offers no solution because offering a solution would be divisive.
Vigilant writes articles about political and spiritual deceptions and conspiracies, any solution offered would necessarily be a political or spiritual solution.
As soon as anyone identifies a political or spiritual problem and offers a political or spiritual solution, some people will disagree and oppose it. Some people will say that the identified problem is not really a problem, some people will say that there is a different more important problem to addressed, and lots and lots of people will disagree with the proposed solution and say that they have a better solution, or that the proposed solution will actually add to the problem or on and on and on.
Vigilant speaks of spiritual occult problems, and lots of various religions and beliefs systems claim to have the correct solution.
If Vigilant offers his own solution, he must take a side for or against the solutions offered by the many different factions.
I offer a solution, I take a clear side and attack the solutions offered by others that I disagree with. That is divisive and makes people who offer other solutions angry.
If Vigilant offered solutions, then Vigilant would be preaching some certain religion or belief system.
Vigilant doesn’t offer solutions, because he wants neutrality, because neutrality doesn’t alienate factions of the viewing public and turn them away from his site.
—————————————
In the meantime one of his misfit users has made the comment sections all his and I think the one thing everyone is missing and is right in front of your faces. Chainmaker says he’s a Bible believing and God fearing Christian. If he follows the Bible like he claims then he hasn’t been laid in years. That is what is making him crazy.
He needs to get laid.
————————————-
Sure, following the commands of Jesus regarding sexual purity is insane, according to you. We can see here that Dr. Schaler is correct, mental illness is indeed a mental construct that changes by moral perceptions.
Jesus was celibate, and much of the New Testament was written by Paul, a man who chose to remain celibate, so of course the Bible is insanity and anyone who follows it is insane.
Or perhaps, sexual immorality is very destructive physically and emotionally, and our modern Western culture that glorifies breaking God’s law is insane.
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Brian,
So you are a virgin then, or do you fornicate and just count on Jesus to save you because you tell others they are going to hell on blogs and forums?
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I am not a virgin, but I have repented to God of my past fornication. As I have been discussing with Chauk, I do not believe that I am saved by my own actions, because I am a Christian who believes the Bible and the Bible says that we are not saved by our own actions.
In the Bible Jesus says “If you love me you will follow my commandments”, and I am commanded by Jesus in the Bible to spread his Gospel(good news), and the Good News is that even though we are all condemned to hell because we are sinners, we can be saved by the blood of Jesus.
I do not believe that I will be saved because I preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I believe I am saved because I believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I accept the free gift of salvation from God by faith.
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Thanks Matthew for bringing back the original subject! I of course favor your view of VC distributing disinfo purposefully and with an agenda, but to be honest, the version of the VC site as a means of a pure marketing and money machine that Chainmaker is pleading for is still on the table. Or even the version that its some sort of research project in the conspiracy field that was injected into the debate the “The Jones”. Even though “disinfo” keeps the most probability to me, we should gather more evidence to definitely pick one over the other.
Greetz to you, Chaukee
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Chaukeedaar, I think there is no doubt that Vigilant Citizen is in it for the money but I think he’s also spreading an agenda simply because he censors viewpoints that would make a distinction between doing nothing and doing something. Maybe it might be because he would alienate some of his audience, though it is also possible that he does it because that is precisely what he wants to do and that is to keep people confused or focused on the wrong solutions.
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Hey Matthew,
Funny, before reading your response I’ve been thinking a bit amout my statement of mine and found the evidence I needed or that I forget to definitely state that VC is on a misleading disinfo agenda: If Chainmakers argument was valid that he censors solutions, why would he try to sell mostly PRO ILLUMINATI books and programs like GIN? I think he is not about putting information out and let people do their own research on the subject, I think he is the bait to catch negative souls that are attracted by the occult and draw their attention to masonic information. Does that sound logic?
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Chainmaker you are wrong that Alzheimer’s is the only disorder that has a strong genetic component, probably because you quoted a source from 2001.
“First, no biological etiology has been proven for any psychiatric disorder (except Alzheimer’s disease, which has a genetic component) in spite of decades of research”[2001]
“Research has shown that serious neurobiological disorders such as schizophrenia reveal reproducible abnormalities of brain structure (such as ventricular enlargement) and function. Compelling evidence exists that disorders including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and autism to name a few have a strong genetic component. Still, brain science has not advanced to the point where scientists or clinicians can point to readily discernible pathologic lesions or genetic abnormalities that in and of themselves serve as reliable or predictive biomarkers of a given mental disorder or mental disorders as a group. Ultimately, no gross anatomical lesion such as a tumor may ever be found; rather, mental disorders will likely be proven to represent disorders of intercellular communication; or of disrupted neural circuitry. Research already has elucidated some of the mechanisms of action of medications that are effective for depression, schizophrenia, anxiety, attention deficit, and cognitive disorders such as Alzheimer’s disease. These medications clearly exert influence on specific neurotransmitters, naturally occurring brain chemicals that effect, or regulate, communication between neurons in regions of the brain that control mood, complex reasoning, anxiety, and cognition. In 1970, The Nobel Prize was awarded to Julius Axelrod, Ph.D., of the National Institute of Mental Health, for his discovery of how anti-depressant medications regulate the availability of neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine in the synapses, or gaps, between nerve cells.
— American Psychiatric Association, Statement on Diagnosis and Treatment of Mental Disorders
Your aversion of psychology smacks dead center to your resistance to understanding why you see the world the way you do.
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The APA says “compelling evidence” exists, it doesn’t say that anything has been definitively proven because it has not been, which is why we have this:
“Still, brain science has not advanced to the point where scientists or clinicians can point to readily discernible pathologic lesions or genetic abnormalities that in and of themselves serve as reliable or predictive biomarkers of a given mental disorder or mental disorders as a group. Ultimately, no gross anatomical lesion such as a tumor may ever be found; rather, mental disorders will likely be proven to represent disorders of intercellular communication; or of disrupted neural circuitry.”
I will translate that for you.
“We have no proof that our DSM disorders are caused by a lesion or genetic abnormality. We might never have proof.
If there is a disorder of intercellular communication, it should be possible to find the underlying lesion or genetic abnormality that causes the disorder of intercellular communication. If the neural circuitry is disrupted, we should be able to find the cause of the disruption. However, we have not found any lesion or genetic abnormality and possibly we never will, so we just played a game with you to hide the fact that our DSM is all hypothesis.
We have proof that anti-depressant drugs regulate neuro-transmitters, but we have no proof at all that there was a problem with the neuro-transmitters in the first place, and we might never have proof, but that will not prevent us from selling bottles of dope.
If you shoot up heroin, you will feel really good. The heroin will make you feel better whether or not you were depressed before you did it, whether or not there was anything wrong in your brain. Similarly, if you are depressed, for any number of reasons that probably have nothing to do with any lesion or genetic abnormality (since we have been searching for those for a hundred years and have no proof), we can put you on a drug that may artificially improve your mood.
Unfortunately, since we have no way to precisely diagnose your disorder, and our disorders are just hypothesized classifications of behaviors based on cultural and political biases anyway, we have no idea what the precise effect of the drug will be on you. We will prescribe it to you anyway because every psychiatric patient is a guinea pig. There’s a chance that the drug we give you will have no noticible effect, or will make you feel much worse. In that case, we will just try another one. Sometimes people kill themselves after being given a drug that makes them feel even worse. That’s sad, but it’s the price of doing business.”
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“Research has shown that serious neurobiological disorders such as schizophrenia reveal reproducible abnormalities of brain structure (such as ventricular enlargement) and function.”
Changes in brain structure is much more than just compelling evidence, though I had a feeling you’d latch onto those words to discredit the fact that evidence is claimed. What the article is telling you is that nothing as obvious as a tumor or lesion such as that exists, and that is true of alzheimers as well, so no different there.
I asked you something interesting though. If it’s ok to discredit psychological disorders on the basis that you believe there is no physical basis for their existence, then that should satisfy the criteria for discrediting demon attacks as purely imaginative as well.
” mental disorders will likely be proven to represent disorders of intercellular communication; or of disrupted neural circuitry.”
your translation is just your denial showing up again really. You don’t understand physiology well. Physiological markers are measurable. Is that a bit of a hint?
You do have a problem though, observable to all but you.
Brian, does dyslexia have a genetic component?
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“You do have a problem though, observable to all but you.”
Well, that has really become obvious to most of the observers by now, especially after Kitties list of defense mechanisms Chainmaker is using entirely. Now comes the BUT: I must admit that towards Chainmaker the attempts of us to proof he is mentally ill have a strong trait of using such illnesses as a weapon to discredit his points, or to attack the messenger in the first place. I’m no exception here, I’ve also expressed thoughts into that direction. If Chainmaker HAS some mental problems, we wount help him by anything we do online, we only waste our time and essentially get pulled down to his frequency he spreads with his simplicistic and hateful world views. I can’t talk for the rest of us, but I personnally have and will even harder try to only address the legit points he is rasing and ignore the rest and hope to improve the discussion (and reduce the time and energy we waste here). Chainmaker has the right to express his simplicistic, fundamentalist, hateful and thus wrong and ignorant views of the bible and discredit himself, and I have the right to ignore what is too stupid for me to respond to… I mean, we write the year 2012 and there are still people believing word by word what some people have written thousands of years ago about things they mostly only heard about themselves… To get simple answers obviously still is a major need to many people, be it in the field of religion, psychology or conspiracy theory. We can’t change them, but we can work on our own perceptions.
Wish you all a great and peacful sunday 😉
Chaukee
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The symptoms associated with dyslexia represent a very narrow group, and that disorder may very well have a genetic cause also that has not been proven. That isn’t the kind of disorder that is often used as a weapon in social and moral conflicts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
“Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, and psychological and social processes appear to be important contributory factors; some recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms. Current research is focused on the role of neurobiology, although no single isolated organic cause has been found. The many possible combinations of symptoms have triggered debate about whether the diagnosis represents a single disorder or a number of discrete syndromes.”
Schizophrenia is an umbrella diagnosis, a hypothesized disorder to classify a large variety of symptoms. I believe that much of what is diagnosed as schizophrenia represents demonic influence.
I never said that there is reproducible evidence for demonic attacks or demonic mental influence of any kind. However, when people have certain experiences they know intuitively that they have been affected by another sentient being.
Chauk knows it, but he can’t prove it. Same with me.
The “problem” with me that is observable to all is also observable to me.
I do not consider it to be a problem.
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There’s a bit of truth to saying that pushing the obvious in Chainmakers face isn’t going to help him with his obvious psychological problems. I agree with that assessment Chaukeedaar. The way I read the discourse between he and A Team is that A Team is giving Chaukeedaar a bit of his own medicine. You can read through Ayaka’s screen shots and other quotes that Brian has made, and even on the unexplained mysteries forum that Chain hides behind altruism when spreading the hatred he has while hiding behind Bible scriptures. I read A Team doing the same in return. It doesn’t make it right or wrong per se, it is just what it is. Brian doesn’t like it when he gets a dose of his own medicine but defends his right to give it to others.
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So Brian Chainmaker, I’ve read you say that your friend has Dyslexia and that should entail others giving him a break, is that right?
I’ve also read you say that mental illness, that unless linked with a genetic component is part of some world wide psychological cult conspiracy. That would include Dyslexia.
Why do you lean on a diagnosis of the psychological world wide conspiracy cult when it is convenient then?
Sorry, but it doesn’t add up Brian. I think you jump from one position to another too often and that justifies my assessment that you are unstable.
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Brian, I’m pointing out that your argument about various psychological illnesses being wrong because they don’t have some genetic component is also applicable to your claims of demonic attacks, especially psychological attacks by demons. You see if you can write off one psychological phenomenon with that argument, in a fair debate, it should write off the other as well.
That’s why you’re unstable and your ideas are superfluous. You present yourself as an expert on a lot of things that you are either completely or very near completely ignorant of. I believe that applies 100% to your understanding of spiritual matters.
I think you are a lost soul.
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One correction to my first comment above, directly under Chaukeedaar’s.
I wrote,
“The way I read the discourse between he and A Team is that A Team is giving Chaukeedaar a bit of his own medicine”
That was not supposed to say Chaukeedaar, but Chainmaker.
Here is the corrected response:
There’s a bit of truth to saying that pushing the obvious in Chainmakers face isn’t going to help him with his obvious psychological problems. I agree with that assessment Chaukeedaar. The way I read the discourse between he and A Team is that A Team is giving Chainmaker a bit of his own medicine. You can read through Ayaka’s screen shots and other quotes that Brian has made, and even on the unexplained mysteries forum that Chain hides behind altruism when spreading the hatred he has while hiding behind Bible scriptures. I read A Team doing the same in return. It doesn’t make it right or wrong per se, it is just what it is. Brian doesn’t like it when he gets a dose of his own medicine but defends his right to give it to others.
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So Brian Chainmaker, I’ve read you say that your friend has Dyslexia and that should entail others giving him a break, is that right?
I’ve also read you say that mental illness, that unless linked with a genetic component is part of some world wide psychological cult conspiracy. That would include Dyslexia.
Why do you lean on a diagnosis of the psychological world wide conspiracy cult when it is convenient then?
Sorry, but it doesn’t add up Brian. I think you jump from one position to another too often and that justifies my assessment that you are unstable.
——————————————-
I have said that the mental disorders listed in the DSM are nearly all hypothesized and unproven, they are not unassailable fact, and “mental illness” changes by cultural/political/religious/moral perceptions in many cases.
I have said that there is a Big Pharma conspiracy to make money by selling drugs to treat invented disorders.
It seems that your definition of “stability” entails accepting as fact everything dictated to you by educational establishment “authorities”.
That’s not my definition of stability.
I do not accept as fact anything from anyone that does not make logical sense to me. I value my research and my own logic far above what some “authority” tells me. If the “authority” tells me something is fact and I think it through and look at the evidence and it makes sense to me, then I will accept it as fact. I will not accept anything at all as fact simply because some “authority” said so.
If you want to be a braindead follower of the “authorities” then that is your choice.
I think it is very sad.
“If man was meant to fly he would have been born with wings”
That’s what the “authority” said.
Dyslexia is a disorder that I believe really exists based on my own logic and experience coupled with information from the psychological establishment. Are you able to comprehend that? I choose to reject some things that the majority opinion of the educational establishment accepts, and to accept other things.
That is not unstable, it is wise.
———————————————-
Brian, I’m pointing out that your argument about various psychological illnesses being wrong because they don’t have some genetic component is also applicable to your claims of demonic attacks, especially psychological attacks by demons. You see if you can write off one psychological phenomenon with that argument, in a fair debate, it should write off the other as well.
That’s why you’re unstable and your ideas are superfluous. You present yourself as an expert on a lot of things that you are either completely or very near completely ignorant of. I believe that applies 100% to your understanding of spiritual matters.
I think you are a lost soul.
———————————————-
What you have just done is agreed with me.
That “schizophrenia” exists as a disorder is hypothesis. It is a term invented to categorize various symptoms that may have different causes. It may be multiple separate disorders. Nothing is proven.
That some of the symptoms categorized as “schizophrenia” may be caused in some cases by demonic influence is a hypothesis. It cannot be proven scientifically.
So we can all choose what to believe about the cause of schizophrenia, or whether schizophrenia really exists. Apart of what we choose to believe, there is only one real truth about it.
According to the Bible if you reject faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of God whose blood atones for your sin then you are a lost soul Dr. D.
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You miss the point and I don’t feel like repeating myself because I perceive that you do so with intention.
You didn’t answer one question and I’m wondering if it is because you are embarrassed about stating that your sister is manipulative and have somehow associated that with her study of psychology.
Let’s go back to the claim that you are being attacked because someone has called you a fool and a coward based on a belief they have of your behavior, and your use of the label Satanist somehow being different than that based on the view you have of your victims behavior.
Explain to me how those are different behaviors?
Then after you’ve explained that, explain to me whether you believe that calling your sister Karen manipulative is an attack or not.
Please don’t dodge those questions because I believe they are pertinent in understanding your double standards.
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I don’t think you really understand the sources you cite very well at all.
Here’s an earlier source you’ve provided,
“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
“Genetics, early environment, neurobiology, and psychological and social processes appear to be important contributory factors; some recreational and prescription drugs appear to cause or worsen symptoms. Current research is focused on the role of neurobiology, although no single isolated organic cause has been found. The many possible combinations of symptoms have triggered debate about whether the diagnosis represents a single disorder or a number of discrete syndromes.”
Here is something I earlier said about Schizophrenia,
““Research has shown that serious neurobiological disorders such as schizophrenia reveal reproducible abnormalities of brain structure (such as ventricular enlargement) and function.”
Here is your conclusion,
What you have just done is agreed with me.
Does that mean you agree that identifiable biological structural changes have been measured in those who have accepted symptoms of schizophrenia, because I’m not sure I understand what your argument against Schizophrenia is now and I’m not sure you do either.
Are you trying to say it doesn’t exist and is part of the world wide psychological-cult conspiracy?
Does the person who claims to hear the voice of Jesus or God or the Devil and goes out to kill someone based on these voices not have some sort of disorder? Are you saying that if no genetic component is identified that said disorder does not exist?
What is your argument?
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I don’t feel like repeating myself either, so I won’t, I will address the last part though:
———————————
““Research has shown that serious neurobiological disorders such as schizophrenia reveal reproducible abnormalities of brain structure (such as ventricular enlargement) and function.”
Here is your conclusion,
What you have just done is agreed with me.
Does that mean you agree that identifiable biological structural changes have been measured in those who have accepted symptoms of schizophrenia, because I’m not sure I understand what your argument against Schizophrenia is now and I’m not sure you do either.
Are you trying to say it doesn’t exist and is part of the world wide psychological-cult conspiracy?
Does the person who claims to hear the voice of Jesus or God or the Devil and goes out to kill someone based on these voices not have some sort of disorder? Are you saying that if no genetic component is identified that said disorder does not exist?
What is your argument?
———————————————
Schizophrenia is a hypothesized disorder that may represent multiple disorders. Schizophrenia is not proven to exist, it is a loose umbrella diagnosis, so the identifiable changes could mean just about anything.
Indeed, in reality, schizophrenia does not exist, only symptoms exist. Schizophrenia is an invented disorder to classify symptoms.
The person who hears voices and kills is not proven to have a biological disorder, he has a behavioral disorder according to majority moral opinion.
The person who hears voices might very well be hearing demonic voices, and that hypothesis is equally valid and equally unproven as the biological hypothesis.
Dr. D, there is a book that I hope you might read, written by an agnostic, called Under the Banner of Heaven: A story of violent faith.
It details the murders of women and children that, according to my belief, happened after some fundamentalist Mormon men made contact with demons who they believed to be messengers of God.
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Chainmaker: “Schizophrenia is an umbrella diagnosis, a hypothesized disorder to classify a large variety of symptoms. I believe that much of what is diagnosed as schizophrenia represents demonic influence.”
Now thats finally a cautious and balanced statement of yours! It would be less stressful for anybody if you would argue on a same level when it comes to judging others people’s belief systems and if they go to hell or not… I’m actually of the same opinion, many things in psychiatry can have its origin in the brain as well as in the soul, demoniac influance included, but science will never find out as long as they stick to the materialistic world model.
Cheers, Chaukee
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Well at least he’s not denying mental illness exists any longer based on “genetics” or whatever ridiculous argument he concocted before. That’s the first step, acknowledging a problem exists. Well done Brian.
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Brian, with that admittance you acknowledge the symptoms of Schizophrenia exists and thus validate that the condition exists.
Well done!
Btw, disorders such as Borderline Personality Disorder or Bipolar Disorder also have symptoms that are recognizable too 😉
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No one needs to discredit you dude. You do that all on your own. You can’t possibly be that blind to see that you don’t exactly instill confidence in most people you talk with, and you’ve completely fooled yourself into thinking it has anything to do with your message and not the delivery. You’re just an asshole Chainmaker. That’s all.
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You also came here on your own volition like the rest of us, and are free to leave at any time like the rest of us. The difference with you and the rest of the people commenting here is that no one else is complaining about being attacked while admitting to attacking others like you have admitted and are doing. We aren’t bitching and moaning that it’s about us, while making it about us. You’re a poor victim of your own making basically.
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Of course we are all here by choice.
Awhile back A Team, who is quite deceptive, refused to admit that he ever attacked me, even after having called me a fool and a coward. He portrayed my simple statement of the fact that he had attacked me as a complaint.
I haven’t complained, bitched or moaned about being attacked.
I have simply stated the fact that I have indeed been attacked, and then defended and counter-attacked.
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Brian, do you realize how stupid you sound? Really do you? Is this some sort of military operation to you? “He attacked, so I counter attacked!”
Is calling you a fool because you’re acting like one really grounds to claim you’re being attacked?
Are you that fragile that being called a fool is really an attack? Is it a physical attack or a psychological one? If it’s a psychological one is your psychological state at risk because you were called a fool and a coward? Is it at risk of disintegrating or crumbling? If that is the reality, then I would say you certainly were under attack Brian?
Did you attack Karen by calling her manipulative then?
Is that true?
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Addressing people with nouns or adjectives with negative connotations are certainly attacks.
“at·tack
[uh-tak] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
4.
to direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely; argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent’s statement.
5.
to try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor’s reputation.”
Every debate consists of attack and defense, like any other conflict, you attack opposing arguments and defend your own arguments, and only the ignorant or the deceptive deny that simple fact.
Which are you, ignorant, or deceptive?
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I just think you’re fooled by your own routine Brian Ketterer. Before now you were just Chainmaker, right? How was anyone trying to destroy you? How was A Team, Chaukeedaar, Kittie, Berry, Female Pharoe, or now me Dr. D from unexplained mysteries having watched you use the same routine with everyone who starts to unravel you, trying to destroy you?
Are you really that out of touch with reality Brian?
Now it’s an entirely different story if you want to redefine attack to be inclusive of debate itself. If that is the case, then you have no claim that you’ve been targeted for destruction or removal and then no claim that A Team or anyone else has done anything wrong to you.
So either you’re playing victim, or everyone has been playing fair.
Which one then?
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Brian, I asked you if labeling someone based on a perception of their behavior is a valid reason to claim attack, is calling your sister Karen one of the most manipulative people in the world an attack on her then? That would fit your definition of attack Brian.
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Addressing people with nouns or adjectives with negative connotations are certainly attacks.
“at·tack
[uh-tak] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
4.
to direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely; argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent’s statement.
5.
to try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor’s reputation.”
Karen is not my sister. She is my cousin.
I said that my sister is one of the most deceptive and manipulative people that I know, not “in the world”.
That is unfavorable criticism, and it most certainly is by definition a verbal attack.
Does my own admission of my surname plus a Facebook search equal “unraveling”? I don’t think so. I posted my pics on VC and said what I do for a living and where, any monkey who really wanted to find me could. I never claimed that anyone was trying to “destroy” me, I claimed that I have attacked me verbally in an attempt to discredit me and my views, which is a true statement, and I claimed that some of those attacks are blatant lies, specifically Femalepharoe’s portrayal of me as being a “racist bigot” that was the initial attack that I defended against here.
I never made any claim that anyone targeted me for “destruction”, that came directly from your imagination Dr. D.
Calling someone a coward or a fool is wrong if they are not actually a coward or a fool, I don’t consider myself a coward or a fool but A Team does, so if I really am not a coward or a fool then A Team was wrong to say that. I doubt we will come to any any agreement about whether or not I am a coward or a fool.
I don’t think that the ad hominem tactic of trying to label someone as mentally ill who you disagree with on moral and religious issues is a very fair debate tactic, but it’s not a very rare debate tactic either.
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Ok Brian, you’re back peddling now and that is fine, let us just elucidate the obvious.
If it is now someone’s right, let’s say A-Team, to call you a fool based on their opinion of you.
What are you trying to prove then by going on and on about him attacking you now that you say it’s perfectly within his right, or anyone’s?
Are you just trying to create as many side track arguments you can to continue hiding from your psychological problems?
And once again, if it’s ad hominem to say someone is, bipolar for example, because they display those tendencies, it is also ad hominem to call someone a Satanist because you believe they display those tendencies based on your understanding and/or twisting of scriptures.
Why all these double standards Brian.
Oh yes those aren’t double standards because you don’t believe they are.
Oh how lost you are Brian Ketterer.
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I haven’t gone on and on about someone attacking me, I have simply stated that fact on occasion as being the reason why I posted here to begin with, that I was lied about in an attack on my character, and that I have continued to post as response to continued attacks.
The attempt to diagnose me as “bipolar” by someone in a debate about the truth about VC, and in a larger moral and philosophical debate has nothing to do with the arguments at hand.
It is total ad hominem misdirection.
Calling someone a Satanist who fits the Biblical and sel-proclaimed Satanist defintion of Satanist in a religous debate is not ad hominem misdirection.
That’s nt a double standard, it’s common sense.
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Is that the same “black and white” common sense that has already been totally debunked as false logic and a common characteristic of many people who are irrational and also common of depression.
Sure sounds like it 😉
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i recently sent VC a ton of pics of a “sinister site” called sage house in nyc, and he replied and said “even though the building was loaded with occult symbolism he would do a little research and MAY publish an article”, this was weeks ago i thought it was odd because any student of occult symbolism as he claims to be would know very well what the symbols mean, and the pictures i took were better than anything he has had on the site to date.
Sage House was built in 1913 as the home of the Russell Sage Foundation, the philanthropic organization named in honor of the railroad tycoon, politician, and Wall Street financier. The Foundation’s purpose was the study of social issues and improved living conditions in the United States. Prominent architect Grosvenor Atterbury designed the building in the style of a Florentine Renaissance palace incorporating vaulted ceilings and a red sandstone facade with carved decorative shields. The two top floors were devoted to the Foundation’s social work library, one of the finest libraries of its type. The Archdiocese of New York purchased the building in 1949 to house the offices of Catholic Charities. In 1975, the building was converted to residential use.
please see the pictures for yourselves since VC wont put them up…
http://www.photobucket.com/sagehouse
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Hey Moises Valencia,
Thanks a lot for your work – yes, the symbolism there is VERY obvious and covering a broad range of the masonic spectrum! Perhaps VC has to first get the admission of the higher ranked fellow masons of NYC to publish it 😉
With that good eyes of you, why don’t you open your own blog and present your findings, possibly even with some solutions to deal with the secret occult rat pack? We need both to heal from the damage of decades of manipulation from the background…
Peace, Chaukee
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Disinformation, agenda or just lacking understanding?
I’m getting tired with VC writing one article after the other in which he clearly demonstrates to not know what he’s talking about. Is it tunnel vision or an agenda? The constant factors in his misinterpretations give me the impression that he is deliberately distorting. Take his recent “Doda and Vintage: Bringing the Illuminati Agenda to Eastern Europe Pop” nonsense article. One obvious subjectively colored remark he makes is “Anna-Christ then raises her hand and causes a great deal of death and destruction”. Although easily observable, he still conveniently forgets to mention that it is military equipment falling from the sky that gets destroyed. In other words a positive action is subjectively presented to be the opposite.
What do you think?
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Well she is ending war like the lyrics say but it also seems like she is bringing the material oriented civilization to ruin, because its collapsing around her and then a plant grows to further represent it’s end. I think the NWO may have an earth worshiping religion and this is what I think the plant also means.
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I just think you’re fooled by your own routine Brian Ketterer. Before now you were just Chainmaker, right? How was anyone trying to destroy you? How was A Team, Chaukeedaar, Kittie, Berry, Female Pharoe, or now me Dr. D from unexplained mysteries having watched you use the same routine with everyone who starts to unravel you, trying to destroy you?
Are you really that out of touch with reality Brian?
Now it’s an entirely different story if you want to redefine attack to be inclusive of debate itself. If that is the case, then you have no claim that you’ve been targeted for destruction or removal and then no claim that A Team or anyone else has done anything wrong to you.
So either you’re playing victim, or everyone has been playing fair.
Which one then?
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Does my own admission of my surname plus a Facebook search equal “unraveling”? I don’t think so. I posted my pics on VC and said what I do for a living and where, any monkey who really wanted to find me could. I never claimed that anyone was trying to “destroy” me, I claimed that I have attacked me verbally in an attempt to discredit me and my views, which is a true statement, and I claimed that some of those attacks are blatant lies, specifically Femalepharoe’s portrayal of me as being a “racist bigot” that was the initial attack that I defended against here.
I never made any claim that anyone targeted me for “destruction”, that came directly from your imagination Dr. D.
Calling someone a coward or a fool is wrong if they are not actually a coward or a fool, I don’t consider myself a coward or a fool but A Team does, so if I really am not a coward or a fool then A Team was wrong to say that. I doubt we will come to any any agreement about whether or not I am a coward or a fool.
I don’t think that the ad hominem tactic of trying to label someone as mentally ill who you disagree with on moral and religious issues is a very fair debate tactic, but it’s not a very rare debate tactic either.
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edit: “I claimed that they have attacked me verbally in an attempt to discredit me and my views, which is a true statement”
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Unravelling how you think, the errors of how you think and your psychological state Brian. Are you being deceptive now making it out to be something else?
When I talked about unravelling I talked about the exact same pattern that is occurring here happening at unexplained mysteries one and a half years ago when you were debating myself and a dozen other people who all picked you apart and saw through your various deluded world view points, or your poisons as Berry has called it.
Your pattern probably repeated on the vigilant citizen website, but I wouldn’t know because I didn’t participate there.
FYI I was told about this blog and your activity here just yesterday through the messaging system at unexplained mysteries. It makes me sad to see you haven’t grown at all in the one and a half years you tried this attention seeking shit at unexplained mysteries.
That’s great, I’m a monkey now. 🙂 What’s great is that it doesn’t bother you and you don’t see it as an attack to be known as Brian M Ketterer so you won’t claim that anyone is slandering you by calling you by your true name then. Wonderful.
Now you say calling someone a fool is wrong if they are not a fool. On the other hand if you are acting like a fool to someone else, then calling you a fool would be right to them in the same manner that you defend your right to call someone a Satanist because they fit your definition of Satanism. What if they don’t believe they are being Satanic?
See by your definition that it is wrong for someone to call you a fool because you don’t believe you are being foolish, then it is also wrong for you to call others Satanic when they don’t believe they are being Satanic.
Though what is clear is in that case you justify your abuse of others by applying you definition even if derived by outside sources.
How therefore, is it right for you to do to others but wrong for them to do to you?
I totally and completely see A Teams rational and agree with it 100% Brian.
In fact Brian you confirmed you’ve suffered from mental illness and needed medication that you didn’t believe did you any good. I can understand why you’re so angry at the whole profession of psychology for your problems however I also don’t see how you’ve actually done anything to make yourself better. You’ve traded occult and recreational drugs for a distorted Biblical view. If you are off drugs then I give you props for attempting to live a healthier lifestyle, though I can’t see that your psychological state has benefited at all. It’s just changed from one view point to another with the same negative effect.
So lets talk about attacking and name calling then.
Does your sister Karen think she is manipulative? Probably not, but according to you, your assessment and that of the many others around you that she is, is enough to call her manipulative right? This means you have attacked her, by your own definition of attack. I’m not saying she is or isn’t manipulative. If she is, it may be a trait that runs in your family because you surely are, but that is besides the point.
The point is, if the assessment of yourself and others is enough to justify attacking her, then the viewpoint myself and the many others here that you are mentally unstable holds true as well based on the very same argument. Therefore our collective belief that you suffer from a psychological ailment holds the same weight. Denying this on your part shows a very prominent double standard.
I know you’ll disagree because that is totally your right to do. I know this is also a debate. Since you see debates as attacking each other, I guess I’m guilty of having attacked you Brian Michael Ketterer.
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Unravelling how you think, the errors of how you think and your psychological state Brian. Are you being deceptive now making it out to be something else?
When I talked about unravelling I talked about the exact same pattern that is occurring here happening at unexplained mysteries one and a half years ago when you were debating myself and a dozen other people who all picked you apart and saw through your various deluded world view points, or your poisons as Berry has called it.
Your pattern probably repeated on the vigilant citizen website, but I wouldn’t know because I didn’t participate there.
FYI I was told about this blog and your activity here just yesterday through the messaging system at unexplained mysteries. It makes me sad to see you haven’t grown at all in the one and a half years you tried this attention seeking shit at unexplained mysteries.
That’s great, I’m a monkey now. 🙂 What’s great is that it doesn’t bother you and you don’t see it as an attack to be known as Brian M Ketterer so you won’t claim that anyone is slandering you by calling you by your true name then. Wonderful.
——————————–
On UM we had a debate about religion and occult, and I gave my views and many people attacked my views and I defended and counter-attacked, as it goes in all debates. You didn’t change your mind, I didn’t change my mind, and I don’t believe that you were successful in disproving Biblical Christianity, although you probably believe that.
It makes me sad that you have such a disdain of Biblical Christianity that you would come here just to take another shot at me, it makes me sad that you still haven’t found Jesus.
You certainly are not slandering me by calling me by my name.
———————————-
Now you say calling someone a fool is wrong if they are not a fool. On the other hand if you are acting like a fool to someone else, then calling you a fool would be right to them in the same manner that you defend your right to call someone a Satanist because they fit your definition of Satanism. What if they don’t believe they are being Satanic?
———————————
If someone really is being foolish, then it would not be wrong to say that they are a fool. People don’t often agree about whether or not a certain belief system or activity is foolish, but always there is One Truth, in reality they are either actually foolish or they are actually not foolish regarding whatever specific subject.
The perceptions are relative, the reality is not relative. A Team might really believe I am a coward and a fool, but if in actual reality I am not, then he was wrong about it, and wrong to say it.
That has nothing to do with his right to give his opinions, wrong or right.
———————————–
See by your definition that it is wrong for someone to call you a fool because you don’t believe you are being foolish, then it is also wrong for you to call others Satanic when they don’t believe they are being Satanic.
Though what is clear is in that case you justify your abuse of others by applying you definition even if derived by outside sources.
How therefore, is it right for you to do to others but wrong for them to do to you?
————————————–
I did not say A Team was wrong to call me a fool simply because I believe I am not.
A Team is wrong to call me a fool if in truth I am not.
Personal beliefs either align with objective truth or they contradict objective truth.
This has nothing to do with his right to give his opinions, wrong or right.
————————————–
I totally and completely see A Teams rational and agree with it 100% Brian.
——————————-
That’s not surprising.
What would be surprising is if you came here and said you agreed with me.
That would be mind-blowing. 🙂
————————————-
In fact Brian you confirmed you’ve suffered from mental illness and needed medication that you didn’t believe did you any good. I can understand why you’re so angry at the whole profession of psychology for your problems however I also don’t see how you’ve actually done anything to make yourself better. You’ve traded occult and recreational drugs for a distorted Biblical view. If you are off drugs then I give you props for attempting to live a healthier lifestyle, though I can’t see that your psychological state has benefited at all. It’s just changed from one view point to another with the same negative effect.
—————————————–
I have had periods of depression, as a great many people have, and what I found out through all of it is that I never needed any drug, I needed Jesus and a positive unselfishness mentality.
I disagree that my Biblical view is distorted, it is quite literal. Most people despise what the Bible literally says in entirety.
I believe that my psychological state has benefitted immensely from being away from all drugs and demons, and I believe that preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not negative, but positive.
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!” — Isaiah 5:20
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So lets talk about attacking and name calling then.
Does your sister Karen think she is manipulative? Probably not, but according to you, your assessment and that of the many others around you that she is, is enough to call her manipulative right? This means you have attacked her, by your own definition of attack. I’m not saying she is or isn’t manipulative. If she is, it may be a trait that runs in your family because you surely are, but that is besides the point.
The point is, if the assessment of yourself and others is enough to justify attacking her, then the viewpoint myself and the many others here that you are mentally unstable holds true as well based on the very same argument. Therefore our collective belief that you suffer from a psychological ailment holds the same weight. Denying this on your part shows a very prominent double standard.
I know you’ll disagree because that is totally your right to do. I know this is also a debate. Since you see debates as attacking each other, I guess I’m guilty of having attacked you Brian Michael Ketterer.
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There is no double standard here, what is here is a strawman you set up.
Never is any argument against anyone or anything agreed to be true by all people.
Again, A Team might be wrong to call me a fool by objective truth, but he is not wrong to call me a fool by his right to speak his opinion.
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You don’t really understand that opinions can be objective or subjective. If one has an opinion based on fact, like I do, or based on vacant musings like you tend to do, it’s still an opinion. Difference is one (mine) is more objective than yours (delusional).
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Ok, by Brian’s newest assertions he says it’s ok for someone to label based on opinion, not objective truth.
So be it their opinion, or if they can demonstrate objective truth, it’s their right and therefore they’ve done no wrong.
Ok, great, now we understand there is no problem calling Brian a fool and coward based on opinion that he is a fool and a coward.
We have clarity.
I expect that Brian is going to call me deceptive. I will consider that assertion on Brian’s part to include me in the good company of the many others he has called deceptive here on these forums for exposing his flawed reasoning.
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The entire point of any debate is that we have opposing views about what the objective truth is.
A Team can label me a coward and a fool, and I can disagree and explain why I don’t think I am a coward or a fool.
I don’t think that reasoning is flawed at all.
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Double standards at work here Chain because as others have correctly recognized is that I’ve just used your “black and white” logic against you and shown that you can “dish it out” but can’t “take it” and you know what that made you on the school playground right?
Let me guess, your Earth shattering rebuttal will be “I disagree”? 😉
You also missed Matthew’s point. Your mental filters are distorting things again.
You said it wasn’t wrong for someone to have an opinion about someone else if they believe that to be true of them, more or less. By stating this you admitted you weren’t attacked, lol, you just love sticking your foot in your mouth don’t you?
😀
The point of debate is to argue opposing positions and perhaps make some consensus when a proper argument cannot be argued against. It’s not about how much b.s. you can fling on the wall, hoping some will stick and then believing you’ve made a proper argument.
When you learn the rules of logic and rules of evidence, go have a debate on something that can be objectively discussed, and that is with external evidence, evidence and facts that are reproducible.
Subjectivity plays a large part in our everyday lives. You act as if it’s such a bad thing and pretend that everything you do and believe in must be objective. It’s not. Learn the definition of faith.
With that said, allow me to let you in on a little secret, be sure to not spread it too far and wide: Faith is by definition subjective, and that’s why it’s called faith. 😉
faith [feyth]
noun
– belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
– belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
– belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
– a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
Hebrews 11:1 says, “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”
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This is what you provided to claim and attempt to discredit A Team’s arguments as invalid because you perceive them to be an attack on you.
“at·tack
[uh-tak] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
4.
to direct unfavorable criticism against; criticize severely; argue with strongly: He attacked his opponent’s statement.
5.
to try to destroy, especially with verbal abuse: to attack the mayor’s reputation.”
Every debate consists of attack and defense”
But this twist on debate/attack on your part means that everyone in all debates attack each other. That alone discredits your whole claim that you are being attacked.
I’m about 99.9% sure that everyone reading this can see through this b.s. on your part Brian.
My question to you is whether you actually believe you’re fooling anyone?
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But this twist on debate/attack on your part means that everyone in all debates attack each other. That alone discredits your whole claim that you are being attacked.
——————————————
This isn’t very logical Dr. D, you are disappointing me.
1. If all people in debates attack each other, then that doesn’t discredit my claim to being attacked. I openly claim to attack viewpoints that I disagree with. It’s simple logic, a statement of reality, that a debate consists of attacking opposing arguments and defending against opposing arguments.
2. There is a difference between attacking a viewpoint, and attacking an individual. In debate, we call attacking an individual in an attempt to discredit his arguments an “ad hominem attack”. It is generally considered to be an unfair and deceptive debate technique the purpose of which is to evade directly addressing the opposing argument.
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So what you are saying, and I ask to gain clarity into your mind set, calling someone a Satanist because they are not on board with your definition of scriptures or spirituality, is attacking the argument and not the person?
If that’s the case then it certainly is more than perfectly reasonable for anyone here to call you paranoid, or irrational based on the observation that you display those tendencies per the established definitions.
You can’t really have it both ways. Your arguments should be consistent, even if applied to you, otherwise you’re presenting a double standard and then when you’re called a hypocrite it’s accurate as well.
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I have called people Satanists by the definition of the word “Adversary”. By the broadest definition, someone opposed to Jesus is an adversary according to Jesus in the Bible:
Matthew 12:30 “He who is not with me is against me”
More precisely by Biblical doctrine, the Satanic doctrine is the pursuit of salvation through of the Gnosis offered by the Serpent in Genesis, self-salvation, rather than submission to God and salvation only through his mercy.
Common to self-proclaimed Satanists is an adherence to the doctrine of moral relativity, or subjectivism, as opposed to the objective morality given as the commandments from God in the Bible.
A person might disagree that they are Satanist and object to the term while fully fitting the definition.
From a Christian perspective, being a Satanist is bad, and calling someone a Satanist who is in fact a Satanist is both a statement of truth and an attack.
Many people are self-proclaimed Satanists who are not in denial that their beliefs fit the Christian definition, and they do not consider it an attack to be called Satanist.
I expose many doctrines,views and beliefs as being anti-Christian and Satanic by the Biblical doctrine, and I have on occasion directly called an individual Satanist whose views fit the definition.
That is not ad hominem, because I have always directly attacked their arguments and explained why they are Satanic.
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I see then it is not ad hominem for A Team to attack your arguments and explain why you are paranoid.
Ok we’re clear now.
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A Team shifted completely away from discussing anything about VC or addressing the religious and philosphical points I have made, instead he chose to start spewing psycho-babble in an attempt to diagnose me with DSM disorders as a classic example of concentrated ad hominem.
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So you say, but I think you totally brought all of that on yourself and lost.
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Oh yes, and I completely agree that you’re a bit paranoid, probably more than I initially thought and do definitely have BPD, but that must make me part of the world wide psychological cult conspiracy, can we shorten that to, WWPCC. I also do not believe that you’ve dealt with your depression at all and imagined most of what you think consisted of being saved by Jesus. I wish your mental health well nonetheless.
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Well that would put you with the majority opinion on this blog.
I think I said before, majority opinion isn’t worth a pinch of dirt to me. 🙂
God bless ya Dr. D, I hope you stop running from Jesus.
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“So what you are saying, and I ask to gain clarity into your mind set, calling someone a Satanist because they are not on board with your definition of scriptures or spirituality, is attacking the argument and not the person?”
Matthew, you again exactly put down my thoughts I had – is calling people “Satanists” or qualify them for hell an act of attacking the person or the argument?
Then again I thought that Chainmaker’s “logic” is based on the bible, for him its not a personal attack to call somebody a Satanist, in his logical view the bible or what he extracts from it is pure unaltered truth, and with such a basis its definitely pointless to carry on producing real arguments from real life and real faith.
Life will eventually show to all of us if our interpretation of the bible “from the heart” and from the meaning is correct or if it is Chainmaker’s interpretation, “from the litteral word”. I’m patient and optimistic 😉
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Your belief that you are right and all others are wrong is truly a classic example of a psychological defense mechanism, but whatever dude. It’s easy to understand why mentally ill people will deny they have a condition. It’s mostly because they fear stigmatization. It’s something that’s hard to overcome, but overcome it you must otherwise you’re at risk throwing the next 30 years of your life away being lonely and never finding someone with a heart big enough to shower you with enough love to fill the hole in your own heart.
God has sent a lot of warnings your way and you keep ignoring them. You’re only 30 now but if you keep a blind eye to the messages you’re getting one day you’ll wake up at 60, lonely and looking back on your life wishing you had changed when you were younger so you could have enjoyed a more happy and fulfilled life.
I have a hard time believing you can attract a partner that is mentally healthy and willing to put up with you or help you see things with more clarity. I hope that you might someday though. I really do!
Now, this number on your list Brian, made me laugh a bit,
2. There is a difference between attacking a viewpoint, and attacking an individual. In debate, we call attacking an individual in an attempt to discredit his arguments an “ad hominem attack”. It is generally considered to be an unfair and deceptive debate technique the purpose of which is to evade directly addressing the opposing argument.
and I laughed because you do that very specific thing.
I just keep asking myself how blind one has to be to not see that in themselves? Then I must remind myself when I’ve not seen my own double standards. We all have them, just in your case you show extraordinarily higher levels of denial than the average person and you’re also more venomous than the average person. I think your denial fuels your venom and vice versa, so it’s sort of a vicious cycle.
Chaukeedaar, it’s true that Brian bases his personal ad hominem attacks on others on how he believes the Bible is supposed to be read. He has also said he bases it on how other known Satanists define the term. Again it’s no different from anyone picking a definition that is accepted by known, sourced and peer reviewed scholars and telling Brian he fits the description.
It’s the same action.
Brian doesn’t see it that way which is why he gets butt hurt in these debates because he can dish it out but can’t take it, like Nick Diaz 😀
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“I openly claim to attack viewpoints that I disagree with”
Then stop crying that yours are attacks if it’s a normal part of debate.
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I haven’t cried about being attacked Kittie, I have stated the obvious fact that I have been attacked, defended and counter-attacked.
I have been called paranoid and a liar for simply stating the obvious fact that I have been attacked.
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Dr. D, if you reject Jesus as the Son of God who died on the cross for your sins, you do not know God. Since you have rejected God, your idea of “God sending warnings my way” is necessarily twisted.
I have a loving family and many good friends, I am not lonely and am happier these past years since I found Jesus than I ever was previously.
Dr. D, if we are debating politics, and you say
“I think that the State should be given total power to equally distribute wealth. I think Capitalists have destroyed the planet and they want to destroy all of us who want equality”,
and I then say
“Dr. D, that is Communist doctrine and you are a Communist.”,
guess what?
That wasn’t ad hominem.
And neither is it when I point out Satanist doctrines in religious debate.
Here is ad hominem.
If you say “I think the State should be given total power to equally distribute wealth. I think Capitalists have destroyed the environment and they want to destroy who want equality”
and then I say
“That is irrational and paranoid, and it is self-deception because all you have to do is look at a history book to see that Communism doesn’t work.”
Irrational behavior, paranoia and self-deception are symptoms listed in my DSM book.
You are a psychotic nutcase, I proved it.”
and then you say
“I think that true Communism has never been enacted, I don’t think the historical Communist governments practiced pure Communism”
and then I say
“You just responded to me again, and continue with your irrational paranoia after I disproved you, that’s perseverance, another symptom, you are a psychotic nutcase, I proved it”
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That viewpoint is a trademark characteristic of the denial one with a mental disorder displays.
“Everyone is wrong, but me!”
“I’m not crazy, everyone else is!”
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What is logic to you Brian Ketterer? By the various assertions you’ve previously provided in these blog comments claiming the use of logic, it becomes apparent your logic does not follow the established rules of logic.
Just so we’re clear, are the established rules of logic part of the psychological world wide conspiracy cult too?
For example, similarly to your arguments on unexplained mysteries, you’re still to demonstrate you even the most basic understanding of the rules of evidence.
Remember these,
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=187283&st=120
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I understand the rules of evidence, which is why I said from the beginning that people can choose to believe whatever they want about Vigilant and Toby, I gave my views from my experience that I believe to be fact, but my view of the situation is not proven to be fact for anyone else.
Similarly, I have said that the DSM disorders are not proven to be fact, so I can choose whether or not to accept them as fact.
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It’s reverse actually. The rules of evidence are contrary to your belief of what is a fact and what is evidence. You happen to reverse a lot of things curiously.
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If what I believe is reversed, then anything not proven is fact, and anything proven to be true is false.
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Well you’re right, you’ve stated a lot of unproven facts from the beginning. That was one of the reasons A Team tried to explain to you the rules of evidence. You never took the opportunity for free education while on UM with the various people trying to help educate you there, and neither here. It’s a pity you’ve stayed at exactly the same level of maturity, or lack of, in 2 years.
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A Team didn’t explain anything about evidence that I didn’t already know.
I never claimed to be able to prove my stated beliefs about Toby or Vigilant. Not once. I said from the beginning that what I believe is fact about it from my experience cannot be proven to others.
A Team went after a massive strawman that he built, a real colossus of a strawman, and you continue to buy into the strawman. That’s to be expected, you are in the majority, you want to buy into the strawman, so you do.
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lol
you
deluded
chainmaker
I
feel
sorry
rules of evidence state you have none, but you don’t want to understand that. Believing that you understand the rules of evidence is actually demonstrated you don’t because of the former.
You lose either way.
Get it?
You lost! 😉
You also are losing the battle for the future too, and I don’t mean how you think.
One day in 30 years from now you will awake wondering why you wasted your life hating people for no good reason, just because you couldn’t get a script or some scripts of hard times in your life out of the background of your mind.
That makes me sad, but just a little and only when I read how deluded you are. After I close the browser here I forget about you completely, until I’m done my important work and need to unwind, then I come here to entertain myself for a while.
Now remember one thing Chainmaker. You tried to brush me off 25 days ago, but you’re still responding?
I won, you lost.
And you hate that 😉
but will deny it of course.
😀
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I don’t hate people A Team, I love them.
I got annoyed with you early on, due to your childish pestering of me to answer a question I had already answered repeatedly, but you finally gave up that game and gave me some decent material to debate.
I don’t believe that I lost, and I don’t hate you or hate the idea of me losing, because I don’t believe that I lost anything.
I did what I wanted to do, I defended my viewpoints and exposed evil belief systems and spread the Biblical doctrine of salvation as I am commanded.
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Matthew, Brian has said that logic is “black and white” and then used non-sequitur logical fallacies to defend that erroneous statement. When Kittie gave a dozen or so links from educational sources and scholars on logic debunking that notion, Brian escalated his rant to the whole psychology world wide conspiracy which he implied somehow exists to discredit people like him {paranoia, delusions of grandeur, confirmation bias, projection bias and straw man argumentation tactics all put to use by Brian Chainmaker}
Brian also thinks that making a claim to having “facts” after expressing an opinion is playing fair per established rules of evidence, but I suppose that’s “black and white” reasoning and just “common sense” to Brian after all, so it must be right, according to Brian.
Brian, I just asked a question you were dodging until you answered it. In the process you went through many observable deflections, which I called out causing you to say you were done with me on 3 occasions, all proving to be false confirming that you are not a person of your word 😉
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Brian, why would anyone need to attack you to discredit your views when you do a better job than anyone could? I don’t see the relevance of your argument here.
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So why exactly are you here then Dr. D?
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You left UM after you lost the debate. A new user messaged me the other day and told me you were here doing the same things and showed your myspace page. I came to say hi. Is that ok? 🙂
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Of course I don’t agree that I lost the debate.
But you are entitled to your own belief, whether it is right or wrong in objective reality.
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But you did lose the debate, like you’re losing here. You just like being in denial all the time, same denial that causes you to ignore a losing cause in debate is the same denial that causes you to ignore the true causes for your depression and not seeking out true help.
I’m not going to lie to you Brian. I enjoyed A Team forcing you to swallow your own medicine. It was a real treat to watch, but alas you’re a broken record and repeat the same boring defenses over and over so I am not surprised he got bored with you. I don’t know how much longer I’ll last.
You’re like Nick Diaz, Brian. Completely insane but can brawl with the best of them even if he eats more punches he never stays down.
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Majority opinion will never be on my side. In my opinion, I won the debate with you, and I won the debate here, because I spoke the Biblical truth.
The vast majority of people absolutely despise what I have to say.
They might agree with some of it, like Chauk agreeing with my views on Islam, but then I turn the target onto their own false beliefs and so they gain a bias against me.
People who hate the Biblical truth are by nature deceiving themselves about big issues, so of course they will deceive themselves about small issues if it helps them to defend their own mentality.
The only person who will agree with me that I won the debate with you, or that I won the debate here, is another Bible-believing Christian.
True Bible-believing Christians never have the majority on their side.
Jesus said as much.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
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you don’t know rules of debate either
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Here’s one of your double standards
Statement #1
“I don’t think that the ad hominem tactic of trying to label someone as mentally ill who you disagree with on moral and religious issues is a very fair debate tactic”
Statement #2
“That is not ad hominem, because I have always directly attacked their arguments and explained why they are Satanic.”
A Team identified what parts of your argument, behavior and position changes based on the counter-arguments that dismantled your argument display the characteristics of someone with Borderline Personality Disorder.
He also identified when your behaviors were paranoid, when you used specific logical fallacies and also when you were fooling yourself with over indulgence in imagination.
He tied all of that in with well established rules of logic, rules of evidence and established criteria for mental illness with credible sources.
On the other hand, you claim you call people Satanist because you have identified arguments which are not en par with yours as per your understanding of scripture as a source.
A Team has used established sources of various academia
You have used the Bible as a source and your interpretation of it’s scriptures.
So you’ve both done the same thing, used outside sources to label each other, or others.
The difference here is you don’t like being labelled even when backed by credible sources, but you have no problem labeling when you can use the Bible and your interpretation of it as a source.
It’s the same act, whether you accept it or not.
The double standard here is that you don’t mind doing it to others, but have a problem when they do it to you.
In layman’s terms you don’t like getting a dose of your own medicine.
On a totally separate topic is this you here calling out for the bear to look at you?
http://www.myspace.com/chainmaker11/videos
Cool photo’s there too.
Have a good night Brian Michael Ketterer. I’d like to stay and play with you but I have other more important things to do on a Saturday night 🙂
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A Team called me paranoid for stating the simple fact that he attacked me, and he refused to admit that is what he was doing.
He cried “self-deception” as a symptom anytime I disagreed with him. I say he was self-deceiving by refusing to admit he attacked me, or he was just a willful liar.
He said that I had a symptom of “perseverance” because I continued to responded to his attacks. The same could be applied to him.
My fundamentalist views are not mainstream, and my beliefs on morality are black and white. The reasoning he gave to associate me with Borderline Personality Disorder could be applied to any serious fundamentalist Christian, or fundamentalist Muslim or Mormon for that matter.
Indeed, many have the opinion that fundamentalists are insane, but there has to be one fundamental truth about the reality of everything, physical and spiritual. All the psycho-babble is aimed at discrediting my religious beliefs. Y’all are free to believe what you want, but there’s only One Truth.
I have labeled Satanists as Satanists, Muslims as Muslims, Christian as Christians, and fake apostates as fake apostates in debates about religion and philosophy. There is no double standard, because I have not labeled anyone with DSM mental illnesses in an attempt to discredit their beliefs, I have simply argued the beliefs themselves.
You want to see a double standard, and guess what that is? Self-deception. No, I won’t use our disagreement to label you with some DSM listing.
Yes, that was me trying to get a bear to look at the camera. 🙂
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So this is you on the Anchorage Arrest Calendar: KETTERER,BRIAN M, 05/11/1982, DWOI, 09-30841. What does DWOI stand for Dick While Others Interact?
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You weren’t labeled with a disorder because of a disagreement Brian.
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I disagree. 🙂
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Rather you were identified based on established definitions of disorders by professionals in a field of study as vast as religion.
I forgot, they’re part of a world wide conspiracy to undermine you, or something like that?
So if you use religious “authorities” and “self proclaimed Satanists” to base your attacks on others, then it’s perfectly viable and reasonable that I use well established documents, definitions and authorities within the field of psychology to understand the characteristics of yours and identify them correctly, especially others who have come to terms with BPD or “self proclaimed BPD’s”
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That might make sense, except for the fact that labeling me with DSM disorders has nothing to do with the philosophical/religious debate except as an ad hominem misdirection tactic, whereas my labeling of Satanic doctrine as Satanic doctrine has everything to do with the matter of the religious/philosophical debate and is not a misdirection at all.
And then there is the fact that you have lied to yourself and others to say that I fit symptoms that fit yourself much more aptly.
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This is an example of how you switch sides of the argument when convenient. Above you make claim that the symptoms of Schizophrenia do exist, but that you believe they are demonically inspired. Ok, whatever floats your boat, but what you missed in that admission is that you actually confirm that the symptom based characterization of schizophrenia is valid (even to you 😉 ). Therefore observing that one displays the symptom-based tendencies of Borderline Personality Disorder is as valid as acknowledging the symptom-based characteristics of Schizophrenia. Therefore it is no crime to have observed that you display said tendencies, over and again. You’re upset because you have been told about this before by authorities and to stay in denial you sought to discredit the authorities by claiming there is a psychology conspiracy across the globe.
That’s pretty black and white; false logic
That’s pretty paranoid
That’s pretty crazy
It’s not ad hominem when it’s based on facts. It can’t possibly be. By your logic you call others names when they disagree with your view of scriptures. By my logic I saw the paranoia, delusions of grandeur, straw man fallacy tactics, projection bias, confirmation bias, variety of psychological defense mechanisms, black and white failed logic, hasty generalizations that you used and simply identified them for what they were.
you know
“calling a spade, a spade” < your words!
I forced you to swallow your own medicine, and that's why you are still here trying to save face after saying you were done with me over 30 days ago, now having to pretend your boat has mechanical issues LOL.
Misdirection is turning this into a religious debate when the title is about Vigilant Citizen 😉
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Forth Hood TX, Cincinnati OH and Anchorage AK. It seems to fit the profile. Count yourself lucky that I only dislike you but see you as utterly insignificant. For $39.95 I can obtain your Full Name, Address, Age & DOB, Phone Number, Relatives, Address History, Property, Criminal Check, Bankruptcies, Liens, Judgments, Aliases, Lawsuits, Neighbors, Death Records and Marriage & Divorce info online but I find $1,- invested in you already too much.
How are Kimberly, Keith, John, George and Barbara doing?
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Yeah it’s not too hard to run a background check.
If you pay the 40 bucks you might find out a little more about my imperfect past.
But perfect was never a claim I made.
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I think I found his Linked In profile:
“Brian Ketterer
Fisherman
Anchorage, Alaska Area | Fishery”
So that explains the photos of him and the giant fish that were posted in the “What I Look Like Thread” back at the VC forums.
Also, here’s a screenshot of the Peoplesmart profile:
Name: Brain M Ketterer, 29
City, State: Kodiak, AK
Relatives: Barbara J Ketterer, George W Ketterer, John Ketterer, Keith D Ketterer, Kimberly J Ketterer
and on an unrelated note, here’s how Mr. Ketterer came across Vigilant Citizen:
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So, I was right. That was the same person I found on the Linked In profile.
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Galatians VI (King James Version; what else for a fundamentalist):
Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
See Chainmaker, for years now you have been sowing discord, hate, dissonance, negativity, lies, hypocrisy and injustice. Now the time has come for some well deserved reaping. And no I don’t mean some ass reaping that you enjoyed so much while in jail and feel guilty about. The very reason for your anti-homosexual stance.
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Actually I prefer the NIV for easy reading.
That’s “anti-homosexuality” stance, “not anti-homosexual”. I simply agree with the Bible that the behavior is sin.
No, I never have participated in that, willfully or unwillfully.
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A Team also explained to you that Bearing False Witness is a sin too, but that’s doesn’t stop you.
Oh yes, you don’t do that, how silly of me.
Where is A Team anyway, did he finally have enough of you. I enjoyed watching you run in circles when he was out debating you, I mean out attacking you 😉
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A Team said I was paranoid because I stated the obvious fact that he had attacked me.
A Team said I bore false witness because I stated the obvious fact that he had attacked me.
A Team was either in denial, “self-deception”, or he was a willful liar.
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That’s inaccurate. I said you were paranoid for many other reasons you’ve somehow failed to process.
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You bear false witness by twisting what people say to mean something completely different, then lie about it to call them names. It’s part of what you are and what you do. It’s black and white accurate. You lie, therefore you bear false witness. It had nothing to do with you saying I attacked you, but that itself is one of the ways you lie and twist what people say. It doesn’t surprise me that you don’t get along with at least one of your siblings and you perceive her to be manipulative. It’s because you are. It’s possible you both are, and it’s possible that it’s a trait that runs in the family.
I was in denial of what?
Self Deceived of what?
Willful Liar of what?
Do you really think you can just make a claim without providing an example and trick people into blindly believing your assertions? Do you really think you can be successful turning an argument I had for your actions around on me? I, at least, described your actions and behaviors and demonstrated where they matches the description of said behaviors.
You, on the other hand just have accusations and fail with burden of proof.
You bear false witness.
You broke God’s commandments.
Jesus said that anyone who breaks God’s commandments does not love him.
You therefore do not love Jesus.
Jesus said that you cannot go to heaven.
If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Bible, or Jesus, not me. I’m just the messenger.
If you hate that assessment, you must hate Jesus or God, not me.
Sound familiar Chainmaker?
Now swallow your bitter pill son. Take a dose of your own medicine. 😉
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That’s inaccurate. I said you were paranoid for many other reasons you’ve somehow failed to process.
——————————
I don’t think I failed to process this:
21/01/2012
“You will never stop being a hater and having paranoid delusions of grandeur where you perceive others to be attacking you until you realize that those beliefs are unconscious, and they are bad for you.” — A Team
at·tack (-tk)
v. at·tacked, at·tack·ing, at·tacks
v.tr.
2. To criticize strongly or in a hostile manner.
1. The act or an instance of attacking; an assault.
2. An expression of strong criticism; hostile comment: vicious attacks in all the newspapers.
21/01/2012
“I call you out as a coward period” — A Team
“You fool…Delusions is all you have.” — A Team
Those are called attacks, and for you to deny that obvious fact makes you a liar, which is why I called you what you are. That is me making an attack on you. It’s calling a spade a spade.
The difference is that I am not being silly and claiming that is not an attack on you. — Chainmaker
————————
I was in denial of what?
Self Deceived of what?
Willful Liar of what?
————————
Around and around we go….not only do you lie and self-deceive when you refuse to admit that you have attacked me, but you make blatantly false statements about me that completely contradict my stated views.
30/01/2012
Prove I have lied about anything. Prove it with words I’ve said that are untrue, and not products of your imagination.
If you cannot, then you must be the liar…again. — A Team
————————–
30/01/2012
“The same imagination that claims he is Christlike and is told to hate others who reject Jesus atonement.” — A Team
“I have never claimed to be told by Jesus or anyone else to hate people who reject Jesus’ atonement.
I have specifically written more than once that I hate evil actions and belief systems, not people.
You lied.” — Chainmaker
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I want to comment on Vigalant Citizen being associated with Global information Network. I had no idea that VC was in GIN, but that compromises their body of work in its entirety to be sure. Oh yes, GIN, I have had a personal run in with one of their minions who tried to sell me on their brand of affiliate marketing materialist crap. Just to see what it was about, I listened to the entire 13 CD series Your Wish is Your Command. Not to mention the association of the dubious and criminal Kevin Trudeau with GIN…after I finished listening to the CD, I asked her, if GIN is so against the Illuminati, why recreate the whole hierarchy of secrecy within GIN that has kept us enslaved for so long? Obviously not a critical thinker, to that she had no answer. I also said that if this information is being disclosed in order to make humanity free, why only disclose it for a price, and to a select few? GIN takes some legitimate metaphysical principles and mixes in half truths to form a body of information which is ultimately materialist in nature. Anything ultimately focused on material and not on the value of life and free humanity is part of the Beast Agenda. I think Kevin Trudeau is the consummate salesman….his GIN scam appeals to people’s desire to feel that they are privy to exclusive information. I feel bad to the low level sheeple who have been taking in by GIN. Trudeau mentions in his CD pack that the Illuminist’s modus opperendi is to tickle-truth the masses when they disclose information. GIN is exactly this, a tickle-truth, for profit, co-intel pro organization co-opting the truth movement.
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thanks for the insight Leah!
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Absolutely, dear Leah, couldn’t agree more! Looks like my planned response to your comment was drown in Chainmaker’s mass defenses in my inbox… Thanks femalepharoe for getting my attention back to the real topic 🙂
The unmasking of VC by his self-placed advertisment for GIN (including GIN affiliate number) must have been so abvious that he HAD toremove it.
Cheers, Chaukee
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Please delete that first one Chauk I fixed it here.
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Matthew, you again exactly put down my thoughts I had – is calling people “Satanists” or qualify them for hell an act of attacking the person or the argument?
———————————–
According to Jesus in the Bible, no one needs to be called a Satanist to qualify them for hell.
Verses written in the first century, hundreds of years before the existence of the political Roman Catholic Church:
“John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ”
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
When people are presenting their ideas about spirituality and salvation that contradict what Jesus says in the Bible, that is anti-Christian, and when they present ideas that are the same ideas as self-proclaimed Satanists, then it is more than fair to clearly state that the doctrine is by definition a Satanic doctrine and the person who follows that doctrine is by definition a Satanist.
————————————
Then again I thought that Chainmaker’s “logic” is based on the bible, for him its not a personal attack to call somebody a Satanist, in his logical view the bible or what he extracts from it is pure unaltered truth, and with such a basis its definitely pointless to carry on producing real arguments from real life and real faith.
Life will eventually show to all of us if our interpretation of the bible “from the heart” and from the meaning is correct or if it is Chainmaker’s interpretation, “from the litteral word”. I’m patient and optimistic 😉
Chauk, I am interested, when you were in school and learning about different subjects, were you tested on your knowledge of what the textbook literally said, or were you able to just write down as your answers whatever you felt from your heart that the textbook said?
If you reject the written record, how do you know who Alexander the Great was? How do you know what he did and said?
If you reject the written record of the Vedas, how would you know what the Brahmins believed and preached?
If you reject the Bible, how do you know who Jesus said he was or what he preached? There isn’t any other first century mention of what Jesus said and did other than the books of the Bible, there’s no contemporary Roman historical account. The reason why we all know about Jesus and the doctrines he preached is because people spread the story and wrote it down.
Without that record, Jesus could be anyone. He could have been a serial killer, how would you know?
If I were to do the same thing you are doing, I could say that Alexander the Great didn’t really conquer a vast empire, what was written about him is false, Alexander the Great was really a poor farmer in Macedonia, I know it “from my heart”.
Now that is not to say that everything written in textbooks should be taken as fact without applying your own critical thinking, but we can see that you have not applied critical thinking to the history of the Bible, as you have said that the doctrine of salvation through the blood sacrifice of Jesus is a creation of the the Roman Catholic Church, but the historical facts just don’t agree with that hypothesis.
This goes back to what you said about Muslims:
“What makes a Muslim a Muslim? I can answer that. A Muslim is a person who believes that “There is one God and Mohammed is his prophet”, and by extension that the Qur’an is the Word of God given to Mohammed as Mohammed claimed.” — Chainmaker
“Wrong, there you go again pulling your dogmatic thinking around the whole world: A Muslim is a muslim if he considers himself to be one.” — Chauk
But that simply is not true. A person is not a Communist because he considers himself one, he is a Communist if he holds a certain dogmatic view of what constitutes the ideal political/economic system.
To become a Muslim a person must accept a certain dogma:
“To become a Muslim one must simply pronounce the Shahaadatayn (Declaration of Faith) with sincerity and conviction. I bear witness that there is no deity worthy to be worshiped but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger.”
You put the entire idea of rational thought under attack when you say anyone who claims to be a Muslim is a Muslim. That statement means two things:
1. There is no such thing as truth.
2. There is no such thing as deception.
And why would you argue something so very irrational? Because you want to be able to consider yourself a Christian, against what the dogma of the Christian Scripture says about it.
The entire concept of Truth and Lie, Wrong and Right, Black and White comes under attack, the rational is declared to be irrational, for the purpose of refusing to believe that God hates evil, that God judges evil, that God gave One Way to be saved, that you CANNOT SAVE YOURSELF.
It is not enough to just oppose that Biblical Christian doctrine, and be a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Wiccan or whatever, no, Jesus must be ripped out of the Bible that says who he said he was, what he did, and what doctrine he preached, Jesus must be ripped away from the real Christians and turned into whatever you “feel from your heart” he should be.
And by that doctrine, everybody on planet earth can just “feel from their heart” whatever they think is truth, and they will all be saved.
The thing is, if you take away that rational thought, if you make truth whatever someone “feels from their heart”, then you have two different people who feel two opposing ideas, who feel that they both have the truth, and since they “felt it from their heart”, it is the truth for them.
So one person can say 2 + 2 = 4, and another can say 2 + 2 = 5, and they are both right. And the people who believe in fundamental Islam…
“First, I’m no muslim and I will never be. To me, a religion that allows itself to suppress 50% of the population (women), treats pedophilia as cultural normality and kills people for their other believe systems ethically is not much higher than satanism itself.” — Chauk
are just as right as anyone else.
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Matthew, you again exactly put down my thoughts I had – is calling people “Satanists” or qualify them for hell an act of
attacking the person or the argument?
———————————–
According to Jesus in the Bible, no one needs to be called a Satanist to qualify them for hell.
______________________________________
Ok so you agree then that you call them Satanists to attack them personally and not the argument.
Right, we are on the same page.
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For the most part I haven’t directly called people Satanists, but I ertainly have in some cases. I have often called certain doctrines and belief systems Satanic, and it’s pretty much always when someone is preaching a doctrine of moral relativity a la the Satanist Aleister Crowley or some form of witchcraft, and when they preach Gnostic fake Jesus who is a pagan guru who tells everyone how to enlighten themselves, the same fake Jesus that the Satanist Alice Bailey preached.
I call spades spades, and it is only perceived as an attack when someone is in some state of denial about their own beliefs.
I simply make people aware that they believe the same doctrines as self-proclaimed Satanists.
Chauk has told me that the doctrine of salvation through Jesus’ sacrifice is immoral like child molestation.
That is to say, Chauk has said that I believe in an evil immoral doctrine and an evil immoral God.
That’s a strong attack on my beliefs and faith.
I could take it personally and scream and whine about how hateful Chauk is to say that, the same way people scream and whine about how hateful I am to say that I believe the literal doctrine of the Bible and I believe it applies to them, which means that they are not saved without belief in Jesus’ sacrifice for their sins, the same way they scream and whine when I point out the simple fact that their beliefs are Satanic by the Biblical definition, and Satanic by the definition of self-proclaimed Satanists.
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“I simply make people aware that they believe the same doctrines as self-proclaimed Satanists.”
You keep using Alice Bailey as your main source for proclaiming a lot of things Luciferian or Satanic. I think she did a good job of brainwashing you.
She was a fraud btw.
She didn’t just taint the Bible, but she managed to con a lot of you people into hating a lot of truth within the Bible as well.
Other systems, that you identify as fraudulent must preach a bit of truth in order to sell the lies. That’s how it always works.
With Bailey you fail to see the tree’s from the woods too.
That’s always been your problem though.
She was a fraud. She didn’t just taint the Bible.
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Chainmaker,
“I could take it personally and scream and whine about how hateful Chauk is to say that”
Right and yup, you pretty much have done that.
“the same way people scream and whine about how hateful I am to say that I believe the literal doctrine of the Bible”
You cherry pick part of the Bible to justify your hatred. So you apply your meaning to parts of the Bible to validate hate.
” and I believe it applies to them, which means that they are not saved without belief in Jesus’ sacrifice for their sins”
Yet you attack even Christians who do believe in that, but don’t like your method of hating on others.
“the same way they scream and whine when I point out the simple fact that their beliefs are Satanic by the Biblical definition, and Satanic by the definition of self-proclaimed Satanists.”
And you have done that, but congratulations on realizing that it’s the same way you do it.
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“I simply make people aware that they believe the same doctrines as self-proclaimed Satanists.”
You keep using Alice Bailey as your main source for proclaiming a lot of things Luciferian or Satanic. I think she did a good job of brainwashing you.
She was a fraud btw.
She didn’t just taint the Bible, but she managed to con a lot of you people into hating a lot of truth within the Bible as well.
Other systems, that you identify as fraudulent must preach a bit of truth in order to sell the lies. That’s how it always works.
With Bailey you fail to see the tree’s from the woods too.
That’s always been your problem though.
She was a fraud. She didn’t just taint the Bible.
—————————–
Alice Bailey was a fraud in the sense that she was a false prophetess teaching false doctrine, but I do believe that she was actually channeling from demons. Blavatsky and Bailey are very notable names in the modern history of Eastern mystic New Age religion in the West. I do not base what I consider to be Satanism on Bailey, I base my definition of Satanism on the Bible.
Alice Bailey did not “taint” the Bible, she opposed the Bible and preached her own “Eastern mysticism” version of Jesus, just like Prabhupada. She embraced the anti-Christian pagan doctrines and mystical practices of the Hindu/Buddhist tradition, she embraced the fundamental doctrines of Hindu/Buddhism which are Karma and Reincarnation, and the idea of Progressive Spiritual Evolution(self-salvation) in opposition to the fundamental doctrine of the Bible.
Are there good moral teachings found in other religions and belief systems than Biblical Christianity? Sure there are. But as you say, the truth is mixed with the lies. I attack the lies, and thus I attack belief systems that are infected by the lies. It doesn’t matter if in the Qur’an or the Vedas say that stealing from your brother is a negative act, just like the Bible. That’s not what I am arguing against, that is not the root of the disagreement. I argue against the fundamental doctrines of other belief systems that directly oppose the fundamental doctrine of the Bible.
By Biblical doctrine, that other belief systems might include some teachings that are considered true and moral also according to the Bible doesn’t amount to a hill of beans, because no one can save themselves by their own good moral actions, they are saved through faith in Jesus’ atoning sacrifice.
Alice Bailey has not caused me to hate any truth found in the Bible.
——————————–
Chainmaker,
“I could take it personally and scream and whine about how hateful Chauk is to say that”
Right and yup, you pretty much have done that.
“the same way people scream and whine about how hateful I am to say that I believe the literal doctrine of the Bible”
You cherry pick part of the Bible to justify your hatred. So you apply your meaning to parts of the Bible to validate hate.
” and I believe it applies to them, which means that they are not saved without belief in Jesus’ sacrifice for their sins”
Yet you attack even Christians who do believe in that, but don’t like your method of hating on others.
“the same way they scream and whine when I point out the simple fact that their beliefs are Satanic by the Biblical definition, and Satanic by the definition of self-proclaimed Satanists.”
And you have done that, but congratulations on realizing that it’s the same way you do it.
——————————–
I attack Christians who preach false doctrine, especially Christians who cherry-pick the Bible to avoid the explicit commands to hate evil and expose evil.
I hate false belief systems, not people. I am sorry that you are unable to differentiate between an individual and his belief system.
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“You put the entire idea of rational thought under attack when you say anyone who claims to be a Muslim is a Muslim. That statement means two things:
1. There is no such thing as truth.
2. There is no such thing as deception.”
This is an extrapolation based on the logical fallacy of the slippery slope. You’re jumping to conclusions again by putting words in his mouth.
Watch how imagination takes over here….
Chaukeedaar says,
{Then again I thought that Chainmaker’s “logic” is based on the bible, for him its not a personal attack to call somebody a Satanist, in his logical view the bible or what he extracts from it is pure unaltered truth, and with such a basis its definitely pointless to carry on producing real arguments from real life and real faith.
Life will eventually show to all of us if our interpretation of the bible “from the heart” and from the meaning is correct or if it is Chainmaker’s interpretation, “from the litteral word”. I’m patient and optimistic}
Chainmaker extrapolates and interprets this:
{Chauk, I am interested, when you were in school and learning about different subjects, were you tested on your knowledge of what the textbook literally said, or were you able to just write down as your answers whatever you felt from your heart that the textbook said?
If you reject the written record, how do you know who Alexander the Great was? How do you know what he did and said?
If you reject the written record of the Vedas, how would you know what the Brahmins believed and preached?
If you reject the Bible, how do you know who Jesus said he was or what he preached? There isn’t any other first century mention of what Jesus said and did other than the books of the Bible, there’s no contemporary Roman historical account. The reason why we all know about Jesus and the doctrines he preached is because people spread the story and wrote it down.
Without that record, Jesus could be anyone. He could have been a serial killer, how would you know?
If I were to do the same thing you are doing, I could say that Alexander the Great didn’t really conquer a vast empire, what was written about him is false, Alexander the Great was really a poor farmer in Macedonia, I know it “from my heart”.}
Chainmaker, Chauk never said anything about Jesus being fake or not. You just created a straw man from your imagination son.
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This is an extrapolation based on the logical fallacy of the slippery slope. You’re jumping to conclusions again by putting words in his mouth.
Chainmaker, Chauk never said anything about Jesus being fake or not. You just created a straw man from your imagination son.
————————–
The Bible states that Jesus said that his blood atoned for sin, he gave himself as the sacrifice to pay for sin. Chauk has said that is a an immoral doctrine created by the Roman Catholic Church, thus that the record of Jesus words and deeds found in the literal text of the Bible is not the truth about Jesus.
There was no strawman created here, because in very real reality Chauk said that he would rather believe “from his heart” whatever he wants to believe about Jesus, against what the literal text says about it, he chooses to believe that Jesus came to show people how to morally change themselves, how to save themselves through their own righteousness, which is the same as the fake Jesus that Alice Bailey preached.
Chauk preaches a Jesus who according to the Bible is not the real Jesus, it is an imagined fake Jesus, a false god, which is why Chauk has no problem referring to this false god by the name of a Hindu false god, Krishna, just like Alice Bailey did.
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I found this while doing some searching.
It’s a bit of Ketterer’s backstory.
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Might as well free up some of my disc space and post these.
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Thanks Ayaka, the first one by Bible Hack Jack is straight to the point!
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Agreed. He uses Brian Chainmaker’s own weapon of choice, the Bible, to discredit Brian’s assertion that he is told by Jesus to be hateful.
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Bible Hack Jack was a liar and a hypocrite.
Everything he condemned me for he did himself toward me.
I do not cherrypick the Bible, I do not hate my brother, but I do hate evil and expose evil doctrine and speak against it as commanded. I do this because I love my brother.
Indeed, it is because I do not cherrypick the Bible that I meet fierce opposition.
Y’all would love me to cherry-pick this:
Love must be sincere. HATE WHAT IS EVIL; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above. — Romans 12:9
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I should say, y’all would love me to cherry-pick AROUND this
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By the looks of it, he had your 4-1-1 Chainmaker 😉 He had your numba brutha.
He saw through your facade like everyone here does. Only you fail to see through it because acknowledging you’re still hurt inside would mean admitting you need help and that would crumble your fragile ego so you built up a ton of walls around you and your heart is closed.
It’s obvious.
Cherry Pick around this
John 13:34-35
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
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I do not cherry-pick around this:
John 13:34-35
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
I follow that, which is why I expose evil belief systems, because I love the people who are misled by lies and I want them to come to the Biblical truth so that they can be saved.
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but rather expose them.” — Ephesians 5:11
Romans 12:9 says the same thing as John 13:34-35:
Love must be sincere, cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above. — Romans 12:9
But that is cherry-picking.
Here is what happens when you refuse to cherrypick:
Love must be sincere. HATE WHAT IS EVIL; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above. — Romans 12:9
When you refuse to cherry-pick, then you follow the command to hate evil.
That isn’t a command to hate individuals.
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So Brian do you agree or disagree that calling someone a Satanist based on the definition of other Satanists is attacking the person?
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I call spades spades.
From my perspective, believing that Satanic beliefs will lead a person to hell, to call a person a Satanist is an attack, it is calling the person an enemy of God.
I do not call people Satanists who do not profess and preach Satanic doctrine, so it is only perceived as an attack by others when someone is in some state of denial about their own beliefs.
If they are not in denial, they own up to their beliefs and laugh off what the Bible says the consequence will be for them.
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“I call spades spades.”
I called you a spade and you didn’t like it, went to elaborate lengths to dismiss an entire field of knowledge that you claim you understood because you read a few textbooks then found one misfit online who’s perspective you somewhat agreed with (that’s called confirmation bias).
You don’t like it when someone forces you to smell your own sh-t Chainmaker.
You’re welcome 🙂
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Sounds like a 9/11 conspiracy argument, with you taking the position of defending the official government story that is promoted by the majority of the educated “authorities” of physics and architecture.
Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth are minority opinion “misfits” who rebel against the barrage of bullcrap handed down from on high, just the same as the Citizens Commission on Human Rights.
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You know, these wordpress.com sites are free. Wouldn’t it be funny if someone made one about you Brian Ketterer and just put up all your screen shots then linked them to all the forums you’ve trolled and sent it to all your friends and family so they can see how you spend your time, trolling and attacking people online. Not that I condone that sort of thing. Nor would I engage it myself, too much work. The thing about it is that it would be perfectly legal since you agree here that no one has done anything wrong identifying your real name. All anyone would be doing is telling the world who the Chainmaker is 🙂 and I suspect that would probably make you really happy because you are one who loves this sort of negative attention.
Good luck to you.
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I doubt my friends and family would be very interested, they have already heard my views about mostly everything, and they already know that i have spent lots of time debating religion and politics on the net, and they know the site I was primarily on, since I sent them links.
If you think I am ashamed of speaking the truth, you are wrong.
God bless you.
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Do you have healthy relationships with your siblings and you parents, immediate family?
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Yep I have good relationships with my family members.
Do you have good relationships with your family members?
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Is that why you keep dodging the question as to whether calling your sister the most manipulative person you know is an attack or not?
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To me this reads as if you’re trying to discourage that from happening by acting like it would be no big deal, but I think that if someone were to take upon themselves a task of that nature it would be fairly devastating to you. I wouldn’t dare encourage anyone to do it for more than just because it’s time consuming, but mostly because of the negative impact it would have on you.
Imagine you meet a nice girl and she happens to google you and finds all of this?
Maybe you think your black and white logic rhetoric schtick is all fun and games as you troll this place and others now, but I’m 100% certain when you mature a bit (and I pray you do) that you’ll be embarrassed that any possible future children of yours will find you making up the enormous amounts of b.s. that you do.
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To me this reads as if you’re trying to discourage that from happening by acting like it would be no big deal, but I think that if someone were to take upon themselves a task of that nature it would be fairly devastating to you. I wouldn’t dare encourage anyone to do it for more than just because it’s time consuming, but mostly because of the negative impact it would have on you.
Imagine you meet a nice girl and she happens to google you and finds all of this?
Maybe you think your black and white logic rhetoric schtick is all fun and games as you troll this place and others now, but I’m 100% certain when you mature a bit (and I pray you do) that you’ll be embarrassed that any possible future children of yours will find you making up the enormous amounts of b.s. that you do.
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To me this reads as if you’re trying to discourage that from happening by acting like it would be no big deal, but I think that if someone were to take upon themselves a task of that nature it would be fairly devastating to you. I wouldn’t dare encourage anyone to do it for more than just because it’s time consuming, but mostly because of the negative impact it would have on you.
Imagine you meet a nice girl and she happens to google your name and finds all of this?
Maybe you think your black and white logic rhetoric schtick is all fun and games as you troll this place and others now, but I’m 100% certain when you mature a bit (and I pray you do) that you’ll be embarrassed that any possible future children of yours will find you making up the enormous amounts of b.s. that you do.
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Is that why you keep dodging the question as to whether calling your sister the most manipulative person you know is an attack or not?
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05/02/2012
“I said that my sister is one of the most deceptive and manipulative people that I know, not “in the world”.
That is unfavorable criticism, and it most certainly is by definition a verbal attack.” — Chainmaker
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To me this reads as if you’re trying to discourage that from happening by acting like it would be no big deal, but I think that if someone were to take upon themselves a task of that nature it would be fairly devastating to you. I wouldn’t dare encourage anyone to do it for more than just because it’s time consuming, but mostly because of the negative impact it would have on you.
Imagine you meet a nice girl and she happens to google you and finds all of this?
Maybe you think your black and white logic rhetoric schtick is all fun and games as you troll this place and others now, but I’m 100% certain when you mature a bit (and I pray you do) that you’ll be embarrassed that any possible future children of yours will find you making up the enormous amounts of b.s. that you do.
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It wouldn’t bother me at all if someone wants to make an “I hate Chainmaker” site. It would just mean more exposure for my words, all of which I stand by or I wouldn’t type them.
Any girl who would be turned off by reading my views is not the girl for me, the girl that would interest me is a Christian girl who shares my views, another “intolerant hateful Christian extremist”. 🙂
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Blunt affection is a term that describes lack of emotion which can be symptomatic of Schizophrenia, depression or brain damage.
I don’t think you’re a full blown Schizophrenic, though along with BPD, there are some strong indications that Schizoid PD may be at play as well, both BPD and SPD share many similar characteristics mind you and individuals are complex and therefore not always limited to text book definitions, sometimes suffering from comorbidities. You have suffered depression which is ultimately an effect of many of these causes, and I’ve expressed my opinion that you are still depressed.
Prolonged deep depression has been shown to cause changed to brain structure, and that can be classified as brain damage however.
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Chauk, I am interested, when you were in school and learning about different subjects, were you tested on your knowledge of what the textbook literally said, or were you able to just write down as your answers whatever you felt from your heart that the textbook said?
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Brian this is not an attack, but did you continue formal education after high school, or even finish high school? There is no doubt that rote memorization is one of the skills emphasized in grade school and even high school in some courses, but learning how to critically and rationally think is a focal point in many advanced courses and most post graduate levels of education. Textbook regurgitation is equivalent to repeating Biblical scriptures without having a deeper insight into the meaning, much like you do. Believe it or not, advanced mathematics follow distinct rules of logic. That does not mean it’s regurgitative knowledge. That means you can’t just repeat what the textbook tells you when you need to solve a complex problem. You must always need to use critical thinking to apply formula’s to complex problems. In the same vain that you attempted to equate real logic to black and white thinking above, it would be a failure to say that critical thinking is black and white or regurgitative.
Back to your question. Repeating something from a text book might test your rote memory, but it doesn’t test your ability to reason and think clearly or rationally. That might be why you are unable to demonstrate rational thinking by and large.
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I did some college.
I never promoted rote memorization alone.
You need critical thought to solve a math problem.
That’s not all you need though.
The first thing you need is the black and white mathematical rules you learned in the textbook.
You start with the rules of the game, and then you apply critical thinking within the black and white boundaries of the rules.
You don’t just imagine that the rules are “whatever your heart feels they are”.
I always find it interesting when non-Christians tell me that I don’t have proper insight into Biblical meaning.
The Bible says very clearly that if you reject Jesus as the Son of God who died on the cross to pay for your sins, your sins will not be paid for and you will remain condemned, which is the default condition of mankind.
It’s black and white.
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I’m still here, had some other more important things to take care of.
Oh yeah {Black} and {White}
lol
Hmm…let’s see….
The Bible, or Jesus to be specific also said,
John 13:34-35
New International Version (NIV)
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
Black and White there too I suppose…
Ah darn, I forgot, what Jesus really meant was to hate one another. Thankfully we have our resident Jesus Clone Chainmaker here to correct us.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).
But wait a minute, our Jesus Clone Chainmaker says we need to condemn others to hell, call them Satanists and is commanded to hate.
Right…
and you don’t have proper insight into Biblical meaning just because you profess to be a Christian. You see it from your black and white perspective which has already been shown to be wrong and dangerous thinking. From your internal rage, your projection bias works through confirmation bias to see in the Bible verses that you interpret to mean how you feel internally; angry and hateful.
You see it that way because you are angry and hateful.
Through your anger and hatefulness you cherry pick verses that you twist the meaning of to justify you anger and hatefulness.
Of course to protect yourself you must remain in denial of your true motives of anger and hatefulness and therefore are deceived first before attempting to deceive others. Through paranoia you think this is all psycho-babble derived from some illuminati sprung psychology conspiracy to try and convince you to not spread your views of the Bible, or some nonsense like that. You’ve even gone so far as to delude yourself into believing that reading a few text books is the equivalent of a dozen years of study and sometimes 2-3 dozen years of clinical experience.
Sure, whatever you say Chainmaker or whomever you are. You surely do know as much as the experts in math, logic, science, medicine, law and now psychology just because you read their textbooks once, or half of, or books from other disgruntles psychologist who lump complex knowledge into “black and white” thinking.
The very best part of all of this is that you somehow actually believe that you have anyone other than yourself convinced of all these creative, albeit destructive, products of your imagination.
You keep using this “mass communication” tool on a blog that is lucky to have a dozen readers 😀
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“You need critical thought to solve a math problem.
That’s not all you need though.
The first thing you need is the black and white mathematical rules you learned in the textbook.”
If we apply this simplistic view to say, language, here’s what your argument looks like
–language is black and white, you need the alphabet to learn a language–
That’s how silly your black and white math, knowledge, or education world view boils down too.
The alphabet may be a fundamental building block of language, and the alphabet may indeed be a black and white list of 26 letters, but it’s a very small part of the complex process of language.
So bad analogy, but that’s what you get from black and white thinking.
Reading and memorizing a text book isn’t education, it isn’t black and white knowledge. It’s basic, it’s elementary, it’s a stepping stone to greater insight and understanding in any field.
You can’t pick up a textbook and read it, then go out and perform surgery. But that’s essentially what your simplistic black and white world view would narrow it down to.
You read a text book, goody!!!
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The Bible, or Jesus to be specific also said,
John 13:34-35
New International Version (NIV)
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
Black and White there too I suppose…
Ah darn, I forgot, what Jesus really meant was to hate one another. Thankfully we have our resident Jesus Clone Chainmaker here to correct us.
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I have never said that Jesus said that Christians should hate other people. We are commanded to love one another, and we are commanded to preach the Gospel, telling others the Good News that Jesus can save them is loving others. The Good News has no meaning without the Bad News. The Bad News is what make the Good News good. The Bad News is this:
“but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” — John 3:18
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“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).
But wait a minute, our Jesus Clone Chainmaker says we need to condemn others to hell, call them Satanists and is commanded to hate.
Right…
———————————–
Thanks A Team, you give me another good opportunity to preach some real Bible truth.
Lets look at Luke 6 in context, without cherry-picking.
Luke 6:37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.[Jesus Clone]
41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
We can see here that Jesus did not say that Christians should never judge others. He said that Christians should not be hypocrites in their judgement. He said that we should worry about our own eye before we worry about our brother’s eye. He said that we should remove the speck from our brother’s eye, that is judging our brother, but we shouldn’t do it unless our own eye is already clear, that is, after we have already judged ourselves.
From an excellent page about this subject: Judge with Righteous Judgement
http://www.oldpaths.com/archive/davison/roy/allen/1940/judge.html
“Judge not, that you be not judged” is often the wailing cry of false teachers and hardened sinners who misapply the verse to ward off censure for their evil deeds. Do not be intimidated by such people, for Jesus has commanded us to judge with righteous judgment (John 7:24).”
“He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just, both of them alike are an abomination to the LORD” (Proverbs 17:15). “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them” (Ephesians 5:11).
“Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24). This is reminiscent of Leviticus 19:15. “You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty. But in righteousness you shall judge your neighbor.”
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and you don’t have proper insight into Biblical meaning just because you profess to be a Christian. You see it from your black and white perspective which has already been shown to be wrong and dangerous thinking. From your internal rage, your projection bias works through confirmation bias to see in the Bible verses that you interpret to mean how you feel internally; angry and hateful.
You see it that way because you are angry and hateful.
Through your anger and hatefulness you cherry pick verses that you twist the meaning of to justify you anger and hatefulness.
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I am hateful against evil, as the Bible says I should be.
I am not cherry-picking these verses, you are cherry-picking AROUND these verses.
Hate evil, love good, And establish justice in the gate! — Amos 5:15
Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked. — Psalm 97:10 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. — Romans 12:9
To fear the LORD is to hate evil; — Proverbs 8:13
Those verses say that hatred of evil is good. Those verses are in the Bible, but you ignore them, and when I use them you say I am cherry-picking, but that is self-deception, because you are the one cherry-picking verses about love, and ignoring verses about hate.
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“You need critical thought to solve a math problem.
That’s not all you need though.
The first thing you need is the black and white mathematical rules you learned in the textbook.”
If we apply this simplistic view to say, language, here’s what your argument looks like
–language is black and white, you need the alphabet to learn a language–
That’s how silly your black and white math, knowledge, or education world view boils down too.
The alphabet may be a fundamental building block of language, and the alphabet may indeed be a black and white list of 26 letters, but it’s a very small part of the complex process of language.
So bad analogy, but that’s what you get from black and white thinking.
Reading and memorizing a text book isn’t education, it isn’t black and white knowledge. It’s basic, it’s elementary, it’s a stepping stone to greater insight and understanding in any field.
You can’t pick up a textbook and read it, then go out and perform surgery. But that’s essentially what your simplistic black and white world view would narrow it down to.
You read a text book, goody!!!
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The alphabet is indeed the black and white basis of literal language. I cannot spell words however I “feel from my heart” that they should be spelled, I spell them according to their proper true spellings.
Greater insight and understanding of the doctrine of the Bible is not attained by ignoring verses about righteous judgement and hatred of evil, which is the same as deciding that there are letters of the alphabet you do not like and you will not use.
You ignore the basic building blocks of Biblical understanding, so your understanding is necessarily retarded, your understanding is not what the Bible actually says, but instead your understanding of the Bible is “what you feel from your heart” that it should say, the same as Chauk.
Chauk denies the entire doctrine of Jesus’ blood atonement for sin because that is what he “feels from his heart” instead of what the text literally says, and you deny the the doctrines of righteous judgement and hatred of evil because you “feel from your heart” that people who have hate in their hearts cannot go to heaven, even though the Bible does not ever say that, instead the Bible commands us to hate evil.
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You guys are all going overboard life is not the internet.
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I agree, I think this applies to preaching salvation too. Shouldn’t it be done one on one where you can get to know someone well and not on a blog or forum?
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I witness to people in real life, and I like to use this powerful tool of mass communication.
Why wouldn’t I?
People like to discuss conspiracies, politics, religion, and so do I like to discuss those matters.
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You answered above that you have never told a Muslim to his face that his prophet is a baby raping murderer? You said this, yet you have the “courage” to do it here. Hence I called you a coward and based on those actions and your own admittance you acknowledge that you are indeed. If you think that is an attack, so be it, no sweat off my brow. Secondly, you used my calling you out on this cowardly behavior to make claim that I was not interested in telling Muslims the truth but rather interested in “slandering” you (as cute as that sounds on a text based medium). I had already explained that I have discussed perspectives with Muslims many times and have explained my point of view many times without having to resort to hateful words, or labels that would anger them. I respectfully disagree, but I explain things in very discerning terms that I don’t need to defend myself to you.
Point that you miss is that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and because you spew a lot of vinegar you will undoubtedly drive more people away from Biblical truths than bring them to Biblical truths, then I can safely and correctly say you are more detrimental to the spread of truth than you are a defender of it. Oh yeah you want to say that is an attack, ok so be it. It’s the same quality of reasoning you use to call others apostates, satanists, catholic pagans or whatever. You justify your name calling based on actions you perceive of their own, or beliefs they’ve stated that don’t jive 100% with yours. So to do I base my perception of you on credible sources of information with proven track records. You call is psycho-babble, but that’s just one of your psychological defense mechanisms coming to the fore.
For those reasons I think you do more damage than good, and the effects of your actions here and in almost all other forums you visit confirm it.
But that doesn’t matter because your aim is to piss people off, because it resonates with the hurt you have inside.
You forgot the rule, the truth, that Jesus told you about forgiveness
But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14-15 NIV).
You need to forgive whomever you still hold resentment for. Maybe your father for telling you that you are stupid (hypothetical) or your sister who manipulated you (implied in what you said about her) or whoever else you still hold resentment for.
And that, my dear Chainmaker, is the truth brutha.
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You answered above that you have never told a Muslim to his face that his prophet is a baby raping murderer? You said this, yet you have the “courage” to do it here. Hence I called you a coward and based on those actions and your own admittance you acknowledge that you are indeed. If you think that is an attack, so be it, no sweat off my brow. Secondly, you used my calling you out on this cowardly behavior to make claim that I was not interested in telling Muslims the truth but rather interested in “slandering” you (as cute as that sounds on a text based medium). I had already explained that I have discussed perspectives with Muslims many times and have explained my point of view many times without having to resort to hateful words, or labels that would anger them. I respectfully disagree, but I explain things in very discerning terms that I don’t need to defend myself to you.
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On these internet message boards and blogs people make a choice to come and debate their philosophies about politics, religion and conspiracies. The real life comparison would be a big tent set up in Central Park in New York City that says Philosophy Debate on it. People can choose to come into the tent or not, no one forced them to come into the tent. Never before in history have common people from across the world been able to communicate with each other and debate their philosophies on everything. I have chosen to use my time to debate in various internet Philosophy Debate Tents because that is where we go in 2012 to have public debates about the truth.
I said that I have not had any opportunity to enter into a religious debate with a Muslim face-to-face, but that if and when that happens, I will not refrain from telling a Muslim the truth about Mohammed that he was a child molester, straight from his own Qur’an and Hadiths.
Now you can call me a coward for debating on the internet and refusing to censor the truth about false prophets while debating on the internet, that is your view, I certainly disagree. It is not a positive view of me, it is a negative criticism, as is calling me a fool a very negative criticism.
“I call you out as a coward period” — A Team
“You fool…Delusions is all you have.” — A Team
at·tack (-tk)
v. at·tacked, at·tack·ing, at·tacks
v.tr.
2. To criticize strongly or in a hostile manner.
1. The act or an instance of attacking; an assault.
2. An expression of strong criticism; hostile comment: vicious attacks in all the newspapers.
“If you think that is an attack, so be it, no sweat off my brow” – A Team
It’s not that I think that calling me a coward and a fool is an attack, it is that by definition, by objective truth completely divorced from any subjective opinion, it is an attack.
There should be sweat off your brow in this instance, because you have called me a liar for saying that you attacked me, you said I was practicing “self-deception”, and you have said that I am paranoid because I said that you attacked me, and used “paranoia” as one of your symptoms to try to diagnose me with DSM disorders in your ad hominem misdirection attacks on me.
You will stop fitting exhibiting the symptom “self-deception” when you admit that calling me a coward and a fool qualifies as an attack on me, just as I admit that I have attacked you, and am doing so right now by calling you a liar.
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Point that you miss is that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and because you spew a lot of vinegar you will undoubtedly drive more people away from Biblical truths than bring them to Biblical truths, then I can safely and correctly say you are more detrimental to the spread of truth than you are a defender of it. Oh yeah you want to say that is an attack, ok so be it. It’s the same quality of reasoning you use to call others apostates, satanists, catholic pagans or whatever. You justify your name calling based on actions you perceive of their own, or beliefs they’ve stated that don’t jive 100% with yours. So to do I base my perception of you on credible sources of information with proven track records. You call is psycho-babble, but that’s just one of your psychological defense mechanisms coming to the fore.
———————————
The fake apostate preachers, and the cult leaders of the world know that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. That is why apostates like Joel Osteen preach the feel-good “prosperity doctrine”, and rarely preach a word about what the Bible says about sin and condemnation, what the Bible says about false prophets and false teachers. But Jesus spoke about hell more than he spoke about heaven in the Bible, and he directly called out the false prophets and teachers of his time and place, the Pharisees.
The people who are turned away by the preaching of the literal Gospel, the literal Biblical doctrine that literally says that all men are condemned without belief in Jesus, the literal Jesus who literally called the false teacher Pharisees “vipers” and “hypocrites”, are the people who do not want the truth anyway.
If God has called them, they will respond to the preaching of the entire Bible, the Bible will not need to be watered down for them, we will not need to censor the truth about the false prophets and false religions that they follow. The person who responds to the Gospel will see the truth that their false belief system is false, as the Ninevites repented after Jonah came preaching to them that God was going to destroy them if they did not change their evil ways.
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For those reasons I think you do more damage than good, and the effects of your actions here and in almost all other forums you visit confirm it.
But that doesn’t matter because your aim is to piss people off, because it resonates with the hurt you have inside.
You forgot the rule, the truth, that Jesus told you about forgiveness
But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14-15 NIV).
You need to forgive whomever you still hold resentment for. Maybe your father for telling you that you are stupid (hypothetical) or your sister who manipulated you (implied in what you said about her) or whoever else you still hold resentment for.
And that, my dear Chainmaker, is the truth brutha.
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I’m not holding any resentment toward anyone, only resentment toward evil behaviors and belief systems. My aim is to speak the uncensored truth, and people get angry as an effect of hearing the truth spoken, because they hate the truth.
John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
I think that if in preaching the Biblical truth you are not encountering strong hateful resistance against your message, then you are not presenting the full, bright Light, you are dimming the Light so that it doesn’t anger those who hate it, you are watering down the message, and that makes you the coward, not me.
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”
—Matthew 5:10-12
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours.”
—John 15:18-20
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“you deny the the doctrines of righteous judgement and hatred of evil because you “feel from your heart” that people who have hate in their hearts cannot go to heaven, even though the Bible does not ever say that, instead the Bible commands us to hate evil.”
Show me exactly where I denied anything of the sort?
More products from your imagination Chain?
“John 13:34-35
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
You earlier said you are “commanded to hate”
Now you’re trying to say that using one’s heart is wrong?
You know why you deny the heart right? Yours is melded shut from hate.
Matthew 15:1
“Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat.” …
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand! 11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean’, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean’.” …
15 Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.”
16 Jesus said, “Are you still so dull?
17 Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean’.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
20 These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean’.”
What did Jesus say about the heart?
Matthew 5:7
“Blessed are the merciful,
for they will receive mercy.”
8″Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.”
So seems like you have issues with the heart. That being the case, you’re just going to have to take it up with Jesus. It’s not me or anyone else you’re angry with, we’re just messengers.
You keep up with the ad hominem, and hide behind cherry picking and bastardizing small snippets of scriptures to justify it, but you don’t fool anyone living, and you aren’t fooling God either. Jesus doesn’t like it when you twist scriptures to spread hatred.
Oh and you still haven’t answered why you don’t have the courage to tell a Muslim that their revered prophet is a baby raping murderer to their face?
Because you’re too scared to do something like that.
Many common Muslims are good people. They believe they’re worshipping the one true God, and they believe in their prophet.
If you were really trying to bring them “truth” you wouldn’t start off with a statement that is guaranteed to inflame them, put them on the defensive and have them attack you in return. You only act like that when you’re trying to piss someone off.
Occam’s Razor… you are trying to piss people off…this means that out of your heart comes slander, Matther 15 says you are evil Mathew 5 says your heart is unpure. Jesus says you won’t see God.
Sorry bro, but that’s the uncensored truth, and like you say below, if you are upset with this truth, you’re upset with Jesus not me, and you’re upset because you hate the truth.
“My aim is to speak the uncensored truth, and people get angry as an effect of hearing the truth spoken, because they hate the truth.”
Swallow your bitter pill son.
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“It’s not that I think that calling me a coward and a fool is an attack, it is that by definition, by objective truth completely divorced from any subjective opinion, it is an attack.”
Per this admission you are admitting you have no objective facts to back up your assertion that Dantalion = Toby, which started all of this because I kept asking you to provide some and all you did was provide subjective opinion based on what someone else told you and your conversations with these characters, as well as your conversations with VC. All subjective, based on conjecture and jumping to conclusions.
You also said it was different to attack the argument and used your name calling others as Satanists to be attacking the argument based on the Biblical definition of adversary and anyone who was adversarial to your interpretation of scripture, inclusive of Cherry picking verses that you could interpret to mean spreading hate. You don’t want to see that when someone recognizes known characteristics to accepted and tested and researched syndromes, they are doing the same thing.
What is evident to anyone who cares to read any of this is that you are just complaining because you are forced to smell your own sh-t, and drink your own medicine, and that also makes you a hypocrite and you are now going to cry that I attacked you again.
You tried to play an authority figure, as in “believe what I say because I am an authority”, then you try to use what you think is logic and objectivity in later conversations to create the illusion that what you say is only based on objective fact, but almost 100% of it is your own subjective opinion, and subjective opinion that are based on large leaps of faith also known as hasty generalizations. Repetitively you haven’t been able to show and demonstrate that you understand the rules of evidence. In fact you cock them up so bad that what is right becomes left and what is left become right. You just come back with earth shattering arguments like “yes I do know that” or “I disagree”.
You do realize something about scriptures and religion right? It’s all based on faith.
It’s an oxymoron to sit there and pretend you’re all scientific and have “objective” fact when belief is required. That’s not a promotion for or against faith, it’s just “calling a spade a spade”.
I laugh how bigoted hypocrites like you try to use scientific terms and principles like objective fact, when debating belief systems and then have the audacity to tell people that your black and white reasoning is true logic, when the rules of logic state the exact opposite and that this view is, in fact, a logical fallacy.
I like how you try to discredit psychology based on “no genetic” evidence for any of it, but promote demonology because of course there’s so much genetic evidence for it.
That means you use science when you think you can twist principles of science in your favor, and discredit it when it is not in your favor.
You’re a swing.
One minute up.
The next coming down.
Uneducated in any of the fields you pose as an expert on, but take bits and pieces out of context and through sheer force of repetition managed to convince yourself (self deception) that you actually have a grasp on the subject matter, while of course only through the phenomenon of imagining yourself to be more knowledgeable than you are (delusions of grandeur), you know very little.
So you’re making the mistake of trying to pass your beliefs and opinions, whether on the Bible or otherwise, as objective fact when you have no facts.
“There should be sweat off your brow in this instance”
Maybe you were controlled in your youth with guilt induction. Maybe that’s why you try to control others with it. Maybe…probably, and almost certainly.
” because you have called me a liar for saying that you attacked me”
You’ve twisted attacking one to being inclusive of debate. You’ve attacked people then. I love your double standards. They’re almost as cute as your black and white world.
The reality is you’re still an immature kid in a big kid’s body and hate it when others do to you what you do unto them.
Jesus told you that it was going to be that way. Jesus warned you that when you’re modus operandi is to be an asshole, that you’ll be treated like an asshole.
“you said I was practicing “self-deception”
I’ve demonstrated where you are deceiving yourself, so have others.
Examples,
– assertions on black and white logic being true logic when scholars explicitly disagree with this, then claiming they’re part of some psychology cult and conspiracy is demonstrative of paranoia
– where you use your imagination to insert words and meanings where such do not exist, the most hilarious of examples was “stealing a car” for the claim that you were in jail for “grand theft”. Since that time, and because you’re incapable of righting yourself when wrong (perseverance) you did a handful more times. You create straw men arguments, like the one above where you were trying to say that Chauk denied Christ’s existence. This is tantamount to bearing false witness. Jesus told you not to do that because in doing that you don’t love him, so you are therefore telling the world you do not love Jesus. Jesus says you cannot get into heaven that way.
It’s true, he said that. It’s true, you’re angry about the truth.
“and you have said that I am paranoid because I said that you attacked me”
I called you paranoid for a lot of other paranoiac things you said, one of which is to parallel the whole field of psychology as a cult because you’re angry at your sister for manipulating you and a doctor told you to take some drugs for your depression.
You jump to conclusions, like the typical paranoid irrational conspiracy theorist.
You fail to understand ad hominem, like all other facets of logic. You do that because you live in black or white. Because you live in black or white you use words like “nigger” and “white trash” to invoke the element of shock in order to be heard. Maybe you had to do that in a big family where your sister, or sister and brothers, were better at getting your parents attention. Maybe you had to act out and go to jail to get it. Maybe you’re still trying to get attention.
Maybe and probably, and almost certainly.
Probable
vs
Provable
😉
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“you deny the the doctrines of righteous judgement and hatred of evil because you “feel from your heart” that people who have hate in their hearts cannot go to heaven, even though the Bible does not ever say that, instead the Bible commands us to hate evil.”
Show me exactly where I denied anything of the sort?
More products from your imagination Chain?
————————————
22/01/2012
Jesus said you cannot get into heaven with hate in your heart. Chainmaker, you ain’t going to heaven bro, you have too much hate in your heart. — A Team
That was your imagination, there is no verse where Jesus says that. Instead, the Bible commands us to hate evil.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven” (Luke 6:37).
But wait a minute, our Jesus Clone Chainmaker says we need to condemn others to hell, call them Satanists and is commanded to hate. Right… — A Team
Right there you took Luke out of context to oppose the doctrine of righteous judgement, you took it out of context from the rest of the passage and then you opposed Jesus’ command to spread the Gospel.
He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.” — Mark 16:15,16
You can’t spread the Gospel without telling people they are condemned to hell. The Gospel doesn’t make any sense at all without telling people that Jesus said they are condemned.
“Hi friend, I’m here to tell you the good news that Jesus can save you!”
“Save me from what?”
“Oh, um, well, um, I can’t tell you that, it might offend you, sorry, but I catch more flies with honey and Jesus sure does love you!”
That’s ridiculous, and that is not how Jesus operated. Here is how Jesus operated:
“But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.” – Matthew 5:29
That’s some seriously extreme black and white thinking there A Team, maybe you should psychoanalyze that verse for a minute.
“And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” –Revelation 21:5-8
There is no Gospel message without telling people where they are currently headed.
———————————–
“John 13:34-35
34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
You earlier said you are “commanded to hate”
—————————–
Are you illiterate A Team? Maybe you missed these verses the first 50 times I have posted them. Yes, I am commanded to hate:
“Hate evil, love good, And establish justice in the gate!” — Amos 5:15
“Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.” — Psalm 97:10
“Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.” — Romans 12:9
“To fear the LORD is to hate evil” — Proverbs 8:13
——————————-
Now you’re trying to say that using one’s heart is wrong?
You know why you deny the heart right? Yours is melded shut from hate.
——————————-
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? — Jeremiah 17:19
—————————–
Matthew 15:1
“Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,
2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat.” …
10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand! 11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean’, but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean’.” …
15 Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.”
16 Jesus said, “Are you still so dull?
17 Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
18 But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean’.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
20 These are what make a man ‘unclean’; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him ‘unclean’.”
What did Jesus say about the heart?
Matthew 5:7
“Blessed are the merciful,
for they will receive mercy.”
8″Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.”
So seems like you have issues with the heart. That being the case, you’re just going to have to take it up with Jesus. It’s not me or anyone else you’re angry with, we’re just messengers.
—————————————
What DID Jesus say about the heart? You posted it:
“But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean’. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.”
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” — Jeremiah 17:19
People don’t get pure hearts by themselves without God, they have corrupt hearts, and that is why we have a million secular pop songs saying “follow your heart”, “listen to your heart” in a million different ways. Sounds real nice, it’s a nice little ego booster, and that’s the basis of all this pagan New Age Gnostic false religion, you just have to get spiritual and get in touch with yourself and you can enlighten yourself, you can evolve and morally transform yourself, you can save yourself.
—————————————
You keep up with the ad hominem, and hide behind cherry picking and bastardizing small snippets of scriptures to justify it, but you don’t fool anyone living, and you aren’t fooling God either. Jesus doesn’t like it when you twist scriptures to spread hatred.
—————————-
Jesus wouldn’t like it if I was spreading hatred against individuals, but I am following the Bible in expressing my hatred of evil false doctrine and exposing it.
Romans 16:17, “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”
Titus 1:10-11,13, “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake. … This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.”
Ephesians 5:11, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.”
Galatians 1:9, “As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received from us, let him be accursed.”
————————————
Oh and you still haven’t answered why you don’t have the courage to tell a Muslim that their revered prophet is a baby raping murderer to their face?
Because you’re too scared to do something like that.
———————————-
I have said more than once that in the event that I find myself in a face-to-face religious debate with a Muslim I will not refrain from telling him exactly what I believe about his false prophet.
I am making the most of the freedom of expression we still have in the West, I do my part to sound off against Islam, this freedom won’t be around for very long if the Muslims have their way:
BRITISH MUSLIMS TRY TO BAN NEGATIVE REPORTING OF ISLAM
http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_330_31509.php#
“A poll of Muslims in Britain found little support for freedom of speech. Nearly 80% of Muslims in Britain said that the publishers of the Danish cartoons depicting the Muslim Mohammed should be prosecuted; 68% said that those who insult Islam should be prosecuted; and 62% of Muslims in Britain disagree that freedom of speech should be allowed if it insults and offends religious groups.
Meanwhile, the European Union has offered to host the next meeting of the so-called Istanbul Process, an aggressive effort by Muslim countries to make it an international crime to criticize Islam.
The Istanbul Process — its explicit aim is to enshrine in international law a global ban on all critical scrutiny of Islam and/or Islamic Sharia law — is being spearheaded by the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), a bloc of 57 Muslim countries.
Based in Saudi Arabia, the OIC has long pressed the European Union and the United States to impose limits on free speech and expression about Islam.
But the OIC has now redoubled its efforts and is engaged in a determined diplomatic offensive to persuade Western democracies to implement United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) Resolution 16/18, which calls on all countries to combat “intolerance, negative stereotyping and stigmatization of … religion and belief.” (Analysis of the OIC’s war on free speech can be found here and here.)
Resolution 16/18, which was adopted at HRC headquarters in Geneva in March 2011, and was recently backed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton at the most recent Istanbul Process Conference in Washington in December, is widely viewed as a significant step forward in OIC efforts to advance the international legal concept of defaming Islam.”
——————————
Many common Muslims are good people. They believe they’re worshipping the one true God, and they believe in their prophet.
If you were really trying to bring them “truth” you wouldn’t start off with a statement that is guaranteed to inflame them, put them on the defensive and have them attack you in return. You only act like that when you’re trying to piss someone off.
Occam’s Razor… you are trying to piss people off…this means that out of your heart comes slander, Matther 15 says you are evil Mathew 5 says your heart is unpure. Jesus says you won’t see God.
Sorry bro, but that’s the uncensored truth, and like you say below, if you are upset with this truth, you’re upset with Jesus not me, and you’re upset because you hate the truth.
“My aim is to speak the uncensored truth, and people get angry as an effect of hearing the truth spoken, because they hate the truth.”
Swallow your bitter pill son.
————————————-
The many “good” Muslims are sinners on their way to hell if they continue to reject Jesus’ atoning sacrifice.
I do a favor to the Muslims by telling them the truth about their false prophet, the wolf in sheep’s clothing that Jesus warned about. I see through the sheep’s clothing that the Muslims are blinded by and I call him a wolf, as he was a wolf, I call him a child molester, as he was a child molester, I call a false teacher spade a spade, as Jesus called false teacher Pharisees vipers and sons of hell. I owe Mohammed no respect, and I disrespect the Muslims if I censor myself to show respect for the false prophet who is leading them to hell.
You can continue to do whatever you do, and I will continue to do what I do, and what I do is raise awareness that Mohammed was a child molester, and Jesus is the Son of God who saves people from hell, not a mere prophet according to the child molester.
God bless ya A Team.
http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVarticles/JesusIntolerantConfrontationalAndExclusionary.htm
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Chainmaker
“you deny the the doctrines of righteous judgement and hatred of evil because you “feel from your heart” that people who have hate in their hearts cannot go to heaven, even though the Bible does not ever say that, instead the Bible commands us to hate evil.”
A-Team,
“Show me exactly where I denied anything of the sort?
More products from your imagination Chain?”
Chainmaker presents,
“22/01/2012
Jesus said you cannot get into heaven with hate in your heart. Chainmaker, you ain’t going to heaven bro, you have too much hate in your heart. — A Team”
Like I suspected, I never said what you created for me.
“Instead, the Bible commands us to hate evil.”
The Bible doesn’t tell you to provoke them though, does it? That’s what you do by talking how you talk. I’ve demonstrated that when it is done to you, you cry that you’re being attacked.
Hypocritical and a blatant double standard.
Chainmaker,
“Jesus never said that”
[John 13:34-35] – A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
Now lets look at John 14:15
It says,
“15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.”
John 15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”
One of the commandments is to not bear false witness. Chain breaks this one regularly.
You’re so fixated on hatred that this is all you see in the Bible. It’s you looking at the world through your internal filters and those internal filters create {confirmation bias} such that you resonate with out of context scriptures in order to not let go of your hate.
Chainmaker,
“I have said more than once that in the event that I find myself in a face-to-face religious debate with a Muslim I will not refrain from telling him exactly what I believe about his false prophet.”
So what’s stopping you? That’s an interesting cop out since there are a lot of Muslims around, even in Anchorage Alaska undoubtedly. You come online and do it, but refuse to seek one out in real life? We all know why. It has to do with courage. Online you can spew vinegar and not have to face the consequences.
What I’d like for you to explain is what you have against being respectful to someone while explaining your perspective on truth? What benefit do you get (well we know what it is), rather let me rephrase; what benefit do you bring to others by angering them? When you anger them you do not make them receptive to anything. That’s not sugar coating the truth, but showing some basic human respect to one another.
Read it again
[John 13:34-35] – A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
You’re not Jesus and you’re not talking to pharisees. You’re a sinner by your own admission, and by your own admission you’re as guilty of “hell-fire” as any Muslim, so you have no right to piss them off while proceeding to “save” them. You know as well as I that you won’t reach anyone like that.
You’re evil for doing that for your own pleasure.
Matthew 5:7
“Blessed are the merciful,
for they will receive mercy.”
8″Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.”
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“It’s not that I think that calling me a coward and a fool is an attack, it is that by definition, by objective truth completely divorced from any subjective opinion, it is an attack.”
Per this admission you are admitting you have no objective facts to back up your assertion that Dantalion = Toby, which started all of this because I kept asking you to provide some and all you did was provide subjective opinion based on what someone else told you and your conversations with these characters, as well as your conversations with VC. All subjective, based on conjecture and jumping to conclusions.
—————————-
Here is what I wrote about this in the very beginning A Team:
06/01/2012 I don’t have all the Toby drama emails, Daciple has been Toby’s main target not me, I wasn’t involved with the Truth Files stuff. I don’t have my conversations with Toby or Vigilant saved, I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING, AND YOU CAN BELIEVE ME OR NOT, I am not that concerned with it, this is as much entertainment as you get from me, I tell you the truth, and you can accept or reject it. — Chainmaker
Yeah A Team, I admit to having no evidence about Toby/Dantalion to prove to anyone else what I believe to be fact from my own experience which is not reproducible evidence. I admitted that from the get-go. Repeatedly I said you can believe whatever you want, I don’t have Exhibit A through Z for you. And what kind of evidence could be presented anyway? Any text posted that someone claims is an email could be a forgery, there is no way to prove anything about any of this. What I believe to be fact about it IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE.
—————————–
You also said it was different to attack the argument and used your name calling others as Satanists to be attacking the argument based on the Biblical definition of adversary and anyone who was adversarial to your interpretation of scripture, inclusive of Cherry picking verses that you could interpret to mean spreading hate. You don’t want to see that when someone recognizes known characteristics to accepted and tested and researched syndromes, they are doing the same thing.
—————————
In a religious debate, calling Satanic doctrines what they are is part of the debate. Your ad hominem DSM labeling has nothing to do with anything we talked about here, other than your own ego. Ego-tripping psycho-babbler, unable to debate philosophies without trying to label the opponent mentally ill. Classic lame debater tactics, nothing to do with actual philosophical debate, just ad hominem misdirection.
——————————–
What is evident to anyone who cares to read any of this is that you are just complaining because you are forced to smell your own sh-t, and drink your own medicine, and that also makes you a hypocrite and you are now going to cry that I attacked you again.
——————————–
I’m not complaining A Team, I am stating facts. It doesn’t bother me that you throw all kinds of psycho-babble at me, it just shows that you have no debate, you have only psycho-babble to misdirect from the debate. You don’t know how to debate, you only know how to try to discredit people with DSM labels.
—————————–
You tried to play an authority figure, as in “believe what I say because I am an authority”, then you try to use what you think is logic and objectivity in later conversations to create the illusion that what you say is only based on objective fact, but almost 100% of it is your own subjective opinion, and subjective opinion that are based on large leaps of faith also known as hasty generalizations. Repetitively you haven’t been able to show and demonstrate that you understand the rules of evidence. In fact you cock them up so bad that what is right becomes left and what is left become right. You just come back with earth shattering arguments like “yes I do know that” or “I disagree”.
————————-
I point to the Bible as my authority, I am a well-read person who knows the Bible and a wide range of historical, political, and religious subjects fairly well.
You set up your monster strawman to accuse me of not knowing what evidence is, when I said clearly from the beginning that I know what evidence is, because I don’t have any about Toby and Vigilant except my own testimony. You can believe whatever you want about it, you can trust my view, or not, silly Toby drama matters not at all in the long run, which is why I wanted to have a different sort of conversation, and so we did.
——————————
You do realize something about scriptures and religion right? It’s all based on faith.
It’s an oxymoron to sit there and pretend you’re all scientific and have “objective” fact when belief is required. That’s not a promotion for or against faith, it’s just “calling a spade a spade”.
————————-
There is a difference between retarded brainwashed blind faith, and faith in something that can’t be definitively proven or disproven. Mormonism is easily disproven by the DNA of Native Americans, among other things. I would never have come to faith in Jesus if the Bible could be definitively disproven. I spent most of my life arguing against the Bible.
—————————-
I laugh how bigoted hypocrites like you try to use scientific terms and principles like objective fact, when debating belief systems and then have the audacity to tell people that your black and white reasoning is true logic, when the rules of logic state the exact opposite and that this view is, in fact, a logical fallacy.
—————————-
I think you have been duped somewhere along the way A Team, you seem to have a hard time understanding that there is One Truth about everything, whether you are talking about mathematics or spirituality.
You are the one who fails to understand that the only reason that a hypothesis can be falsified is because there is only one true answer to every question, and all of true science seeks to get ever closer to the purest, best, most true answers possible.
Even if you have no way to prove something one way or another, there’s only one truth about it.
——————————–
I like how you try to discredit psychology based on “no genetic” evidence for any of it, but promote demonology because of course there’s so much genetic evidence for it.
That means you use science when you think you can twist principles of science in your favor, and discredit it when it is not in your favor.
————————————
I have put demonology and psychology on the same level. Your DSM is full of unproven hypotheses, and demon-possession is just as unproven as a cause for many symptoms that are classified under the hypothesized disorder “schizophrenia” as everything else is unproven.
You put faith in the unproven hypotheses of the DSM, I do not put much faith in them.
———————————
You’re a swing.
One minute up.
The next coming down.
Uneducated in any of the fields you pose as an expert on, but take bits and pieces out of context and through sheer force of repetition managed to convince yourself (self deception) that you actually have a grasp on the subject matter, while of course only through the phenomenon of imagining yourself to be more knowledgeable than you are (delusions of grandeur), you know very little.
So you’re making the mistake of trying to pass your beliefs and opinions, whether on the Bible or otherwise, as objective fact when you have no facts.
—————————-
Well that’s your subjective opinion, but the objective fact remains that I have posted a slew of Bible verses that contradict what you have been preaching.
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“There should be sweat off your brow in this instance”
Maybe you were controlled in your youth with guilt induction. Maybe that’s why you try to control others with it. Maybe…probably, and almost certainly.
” because you have called me a liar for saying that you attacked me”
You’ve twisted attacking one to being inclusive of debate. You’ve attacked people then. I love your double standards. They’re almost as cute as your black and white world.
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I have openly claimed to be attacking people in debate. I started off here on this blog by counter-attacking Femalepharoe. There is no double standard A Team, I am open about attacking people, the double standard is in your imagination. That’s your self-deception, not mine.
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The reality is you’re still an immature kid in a big kid’s body and hate it when others do to you what you do unto them.
Jesus told you that it was going to be that way. Jesus warned you that when you’re modus operandi is to be an asshole, that you’ll be treated like an asshole.
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A Team, I don’t complain about what you say about me, I just defend and counter-attack. My modus operani is speaking the truth. Whistleblowers are often considered to be assholes.
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“you said I was practicing “self-deception”
I’ve demonstrated where you are deceiving yourself, so have others.
Examples,
– assertions on black and white logic being true logic when scholars explicitly disagree with this, then claiming they’re part of some psychology cult and conspiracy is demonstrative of paranoia
– where you use your imagination to insert words and meanings where such do not exist, the most hilarious of examples was “stealing a car” for the claim that you were in jail for “grand theft”. Since that time, and because you’re incapable of righting yourself when wrong (perseverance) you did a handful more times. You create straw men arguments, like the one above where you were trying to say that Chauk denied Christ’s existence. This is tantamount to bearing false witness. Jesus told you not to do that because in doing that you don’t love him, so you are therefore telling the world you do not love Jesus. Jesus says you cannot get into heaven that way. It’s true, he said that. It’s true, you’re angry about the truth.
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“Scholars” say lots of things. They say a lot of unproven hypotheses, especially when you are talking about psychology where behavior is being judged and classified into invented classifications that exist in reality the same way that the borders of countries exist in reality. Mental constructs, subject to change, not cold hard fact. What your scholars say about black and white thinking is opinion, nothing more, and the attempt to equate black and white thinking with the false dilemma is a leap, a leap made by the opinion of a person.
All of rational logic is based on black and white thinking at the core. Critical thought is the art of using black and white facts as tools to achieve your goals.
I did not say that Chauk denied Christ’s existence, that is your imagination working overtime again. I said that Chauk denies the Bible as the literal record of what Jesus said, did, and commanded.
There was no strawman there, you imagined something into existence. I may have added the word “auto” to “grand theft”, but that didn’t change the meaning of what was being discussed at all.
But you, you have taken this:
“If you reject the Bible, how do you know who Jesus said he was or what he preached? There isn’t any other first century mention of what Jesus said and did other than the books of the Bible, there’s no contemporary Roman historical account. The reason why we all know about Jesus and the doctrines he preached is because people spread the story and wrote it down.
Without that record, Jesus could be anyone. He could have been a serial killer, how would you know?
If I were to do the same thing you are doing, I could say that Alexander the Great didn’t really conquer a vast empire, what was written about him is false, Alexander the Great was really a poor farmer in Macedonia, I know it “from my heart”. — Chainmaker
and you magically turned it into this:
“You create straw men arguments, like the one above where you were trying to say that Chauk denied Christ’s existence.” — A Team
Nowhere did I say anything about Chauk denying Jesus’ existence, that talks about what Jesus did and said in his lifetime.
And you lied about my statement…for what purpose?
So you could accuse me of lying and tell me that I can’t go to heaven! Shame, shame, shame.
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“and you have said that I am paranoid because I said that you attacked me”
I called you paranoid for a lot of other paranoiac things you said, one of which is to parallel the whole field of psychology as a cult because you’re angry at your sister for manipulating you and a doctor told you to take some drugs for your depression.
You jump to conclusions, like the typical paranoid irrational conspiracy theorist.
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It is a cult. You hold those hypothesized disorders as being proven fact, since the “authorities” agree. But they are not objective fact, they are subjective opinion taught to you by men with biases.
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You fail to understand ad hominem, like all other facets of logic. You do that because you live in black or white. Because you live in black or white you use words like “nigger” and “white trash” to invoke the element of shock in order to be heard. Maybe you had to do that in a big family where your sister, or sister and brothers, were better at getting your parents attention. Maybe you had to act out and go to jail to get it. Maybe you’re still trying to get attention.
Maybe and probably, and almost certainly.
Probable
vs
Provable
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Analyzing, analyzing, trying to make sense of me with the Freudian opinion that every adult behavior is an extension of childhood.
You don’t know me A Team, you don’t understand me at all, you believe that you have people figured out because you can label them with psychobabble, but you are deluding yourself.
I used the words “nigger” and “white trash” in one instance in a single conversation with Femalepharoe on VC, not to get attention, but to make a point about a certain mentality, simply because no one ever said the truth about that matter as succinctly as Chris Rock. I never used those terms again until Femalepharoe attacked me by calling me racist, and I have fully explained myself about that on this page.
But now you are going off far away into a dreamland of psychobabble, trying to label me and classify me according to the textbooks, and your hypotheses about my childhood are far far away from the mark.
Come back to reality A Team. Please. Your textbooks have not made you an authority, they have only boosted your ego to think that you know facts about the mind that you do not know, because they are not facts, they are hypotheses, and many of them are wrong.
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The “A” Team
Chainmaker
“you deny the the doctrines of righteous judgement and hatred of evil because you “feel from your heart” that people who have hate in their hearts cannot go to heaven, even though the Bible does not ever say that, instead the Bible commands us to hate evil.”
A-Team,
“Show me exactly where I denied anything of the sort?
More products from your imagination Chain?”
Chainmaker presents,
“22/01/2012
Jesus said you cannot get into heaven with hate in your heart. Chainmaker, you ain’t going to heaven bro, you have too much hate in your heart. — A Team”
Like I suspected, I never said what you created for me.
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Of course you didn’t say verbatim “I deny the doctrines of righteous judement and hatred of evil”, but you come close to saying that verbatim when you show your denial of those doctrines by creating a fake doctrine “Jesus said you cannot get into heaven with hate in your heart”, which Jesus never said in the Bible, that’s you creating doctrine by putting words in Jesus’ mouth, not me, don’t get it twisted.
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“Instead, the Bible commands us to hate evil.”
The Bible doesn’t tell you to provoke them though, does it? That’s what you do by talking how you talk. I’ve demonstrated that when it is done to you, you cry that you’re being attacked.
Hypocritical and a blatant double standard.
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Sigh.
I post “the Bible commands us to hate EVIL”, and you say “the Bible doesn’t tell you to provoke THEM”
Evil is not “them”, evil is what they sometimes “do”, and evil lies of a false prophet are what they “believe”.
A Team, for the 100th time, I do not hate individuals, I hate evil behaviors and evil belief systems. The Bible contains plenty of examples of OT prophets and Jesus and the NT apostles being provocative, which is why you had Paul and Silas ending up in jail for preaching the gospel, that’s just one example.
To preach the gospel of Jesus Christ is to be provocative. To say, “Jesus said he is the One Way to salvation, and all other ways are false and lead to condemnation” is an assault on all the other ways, that simple statement often provokes the followers of other ways to anger, because they don’t like to be told that they are wrong. You can preach that statement in a CHristian church to a room full of Christians, and it’s not provocative. Say it on a public message board, and lots of people are offended by the intolerance, they hate to hear it said because if it is true it means they are on the Wide Path to destruction.
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Chainmaker,
“Jesus never said that”
[John 13:34-35] – A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
Now lets look at John 14:15
It says,
“15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.”
John 15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”
One of the commandments is to not bear false witness. Chain breaks this one regularly.
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I said “Jesus never said that” about this:
“Jesus said you cannot get into heaven with hate in your heart. Chainmaker, you ain’t going to heaven bro, you have too much hate in your heart. — A Team”
And since Jesus never said that in any verse, since you just made that up from your imagination, you post some verses where Jesus commands love, not any verse where he condemns hatred. Love is inseparable from hatred. To love a child is to hate the idea of that child being hurt in any way.
Love is not good when you are loving evil.
Hatred is good when you are hating evil.
I haven’t given false witness here A Team, you are the one who has lied many times about me, and lied about what the Bible says, that is documented and proven.
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You’re so fixated on hatred that this is all you see in the Bible. It’s you looking at the world through your internal filters and those internal filters create {confirmation bias} such that you resonate with out of context scriptures in order to not let go of your hate.
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I’m fixated on loving my brother and on hating evil, two sides of the same coin, it’s the same fixation.
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Chainmaker,
“I have said more than once that in the event that I find myself in a face-to-face religious debate with a Muslim I will not refrain from telling him exactly what I believe about his false prophet.”
So what’s stopping you? That’s an interesting cop out since there are a lot of Muslims around, even in Anchorage Alaska undoubtedly. You come online and do it, but refuse to seek one out in real life? We all know why. It has to do with courage. Online you can spew vinegar and not have to face the consequences.
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I don’t live in Anchorage, and I am not sure where any Muslims are in Alaska. I am a writer, I write, and I prefer to debate in writing, and I like to debate on the internet as many do. I go to internet sites where people choose to go to discuss philosophy on spiritual matters, and I give my views. I think that you would perhaps tell Salman Rushdie, “You coward, you would never say what you wrote in the Satanic Verses to the Ayatollah’s face!” Luckily I am not in a Muslim country where I would be tortured or killed for speaking the truth about Islam, and I can keep the truth on broadcast on the Western internet.
Quite a lame attempt at defending censorship A Team. I will continue to be outspoken about my views on the internet where people choose to come to debate.
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What I’d like for you to explain is what you have against being respectful to someone while explaining your perspective on truth? What benefit do you get (well we know what it is), rather let me rephrase; what benefit do you bring to others by angering them? When you anger them you do not make them receptive to anything. That’s not sugar coating the truth, but showing some basic human respect to one another.
Read it again
[John 13:34-35] – A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
You’re not Jesus and you’re not talking to pharisees. You’re a sinner by your own admission, and by your own admission you’re as guilty of “hell-fire” as any Muslim, so you have no right to piss them off while proceeding to “save” them. You know as well as I that you won’t reach anyone like that.
You’re evil for doing that for your own pleasure.
Matthew 5:7
“Blessed are the merciful,
for they will receive mercy.”
8″Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.”
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The Pharisees had many followers in Jesus’ day, they were the Jewish religious leaders. Jesus called them out in front of their followers. Many common Jew followers of the Pharisees were certainly offended by what Jesus said, indeed, when Jesus first revealed himself as the Messiah in the synagogue, he angered the whole room of Jews and they sought to kill him.
Luke 4:22 “All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.
23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”
24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy[g] in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”
28 All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.”
There is a difference between respecting people and respecting their false views. Jesus was not disrespecting the people in the synagogue by telling them the truth, but they got angry at hearing the truth anyway.
I call Mohammed, who was a false prophet and and antichrist, the equivalent of a Pharisee, a child molester by his own actions. I speak the truth about Mohammed not for my own pleasure, but because it is truth that is actively suppressed by Muslims and their politically correct liberal allies, it is “Islamophobic” to speak the truth about Mohammed and Islam, and I am going to continue to use the free internet to express the truth.
Adolf Hitler gets no respect to avoid offending Nazis, Mao Zedong and Joseph Stalin get no respect to avoid offending Communists, Jospeh Smith and Warren Jeffs get no respect to avoid offending Mormons, John Hagee and Pat Robertson get no respect to avoid offending Zionist Christians, and the child-molesting, adulterous, slave-raping, thieving and looting, mass-murdering bloody warlord Mohammed gets no respect to avoid offending Muslims.
You can call speaking the truth evil, but you have it twisted A Team.
“Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!” — Isaiah 5:20
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You can call spewing hatred spreading the truth, but you have it twisted Brian Ketterer
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Brian Ketterer, you avoided these questions by A-Team with more of your hate speech:
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What I’d like for you to explain is what you have against being respectful to someone while explaining your perspective on truth? What benefit do you get (well we know what it is), rather let me rephrase; what benefit do you bring to others by angering them? When you anger them you do not make them receptive to anything. That’s not sugar coating the truth, but showing some basic human respect to one another.
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Come back to reality Chainmaker. Please. Your imaginations and black and white extrapolations of scripture have not made you an authority, they have only boosted your ego to think that you know facts about spirituality that you do not know, because they are not facts, they are ideas in your mind, and most of them are wrong
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Chainmaker,
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Here is what I wrote about this in the very beginning A Team:
06/01/2012 I don’t have all the Toby drama emails, Daciple has been Toby’s main target not me, I wasn’t involved with the Truth Files stuff. I don’t have my conversations with Toby or Vigilant saved, I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING, AND YOU CAN BELIEVE ME OR NOT, I am not that concerned with it, this is as much entertainment as you get from me, I tell you the truth, and you can accept or reject it. — Chainmaker
_________________________________
the rest of that statement read,
“Toby has sent Daciple all kinds of screwy emails for over a year, I have read some stuff here and there that Daciple showed me, and I laughed when I saw the email when he first started on his “you are part of an experiment” routine. I’m sure that crap was sent all around the grapevine, and then I come here and Toby is playing games with multiple accounts, and I know who they are and I can’t help but smile watching him play his silly games. He really is unhinged, I mean there are people who play golf for a hobby instead of playing mind games with conspiracy boards, but I understand the sick humor of it, I read his alters here giving twisted lies and I can imagine the giddy expression on his face.
Yes he is Dantalion Jones, and he did have an economic aim at TruthFiles, he tried to get people there to write material for him that he could edit into a book that he planned to profit from just like all his other books.”
So you admit you have no facts and cannot prove it, but state all of this as a matter of fact and end with you presenting the truth, but later say it’s all your opinion and you believe you follow rules of evidence?
LOL
You later said on 12-01-2012
“You can believe whatever you want to believe about Toby and Dantalion and whether or not Toby is one individual or an individual with a few accomplices, (as I believe and intuitively know for a fact personally from my own experiences even to the point of reading some Toby imposter accounts on this very page)”
See the word “fact” up there? That’s all I’ve asked you to present, but since you acknowledge you have none let’s move on.
Ok enough of that. We’ve already established and you are later confirm that it was your opinion (based on something Wowfan told you, Daciple told you and some vague emails you shared with both Vigilant and Toby in the past) and you have no facts, so let’s just go to what you might believe then, ok?
– You believe Toby and Vigilant Citizen are enemies
– You especially believe this to be the case after the VC board reset 1 year
ago last April that some of your “christian” friends, who are now back
moderating VC, had a helping hand in.
– You believe that VC is really only in it for the money and doesn’t care about
truth
– You agree that when you were good for business, VC kept you around, but
when your attacks on various individuals started to be detrimental for
business, you were eliminated.
– You believe that Toby and Dantalion are the same
– You believe that Toby was/is responsible for many of the accounts here
and elsewhere on the net and also responsible for emailing people that you
lead.
All correct so far?
Or are you going to ignore these questions again and pretend that you’re being attacked?
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Nice try
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